have anything to do with the other. Teams tweak rosters all the time. If they knew for sure he wasn't part of their plans, then you cut him and look for a better fit for training camp. I think this is more likely.
have anything to do with the other. Teams tweak rosters all the time. If they knew for sure he wasn't part of their plans, then you cut him and look for a better fit for training camp. I think this is more likely.
they have to many nba contracts as it is, if thwy thought they could make a 2 for 1 trade there would be no reason to cut williams....
thwy have until game 1 to make that decision, unless jonnis right and williams agent said if there is any chance you are cutting him do it now
Maybe he wasn't getting along with the coaches. Or with his teammates. Maybe they don't like his attitude. Maybe they think he's using drugs. Maybe he's not learning the plays, or not trying to learn the plays, or wants a role the Knicks aren't interested in giving him.
Or maybe they have someone else in mind for that roster spot. Much still to be revealed.
RE: RE: It's a numbers game. Non-guaranteed contract.
He's got some upside I guess, but I am not too worried that we'll regret that move.
it is not about regrettjng the ml ove, it is just weird to do it now after he has been working out with fizdale and playrd well in summer leagur...
Which could mean the simplest answer...Fizdale and management weren't particularly impressed by what they saw and didn't feel the need to continue investing their time and resources.
If you trust Fizdale's talent eval skills, then its hard to knock this move after he just had an extensive look at the player.
So you have Ron Baker, who has no skills or NBA athleticism but has a willingness to run thru a wall.
And Williams who has the same willingness but is a plus NBA athlete.
I get that Baker has the stupid/guaranteed contract, but if they ate it, so what? What does it hurt other than $$? Its not like there are cap implications with Baker being expiring.
In the SL. Didnt play inside the offense and likely would receive little playing to time. He may have asked them to do it.
This. He's older and more physically developed than most guys in SL which is why he flashed but he played selfishly and wasn't all that impressive imo. They must either have another move coming (1 for 2-3), are signing something like Alan Williams or David Nwaba or knew he wouldn't make the team and wanted the good will with his agent by doing it now.
Another thing worth noting, not being forced to waive or stretch Noah gives them more leverage in any buyout conversations. Is Noah really willing to waste another year of what's left of his career sitting on the bench or will he be desperate and take less money to join someone like the Wolves?
Played like he downed 50 Red Bulls before tip off. Surprised by the move, but not too concerned. Maybe they've seen enough from Knox to know he'll be getting more minutes than anticipated. Mario will too, as will....wait for it....Lance effing Thomas.
In the SL. Didnt play inside the offense and likely would receive little playing to time. He may have asked them to do it.
This. He's older and more physically developed than most guys in SL which is why he flashed but he played selfishly and wasn't all that impressive imo. They must either have another move coming (1 for 2-3), are signing something like Alan Williams or David Nwaba or knew he wouldn't make the team and wanted the good will with his agent by doing it now.
Another thing worth noting, not being forced to waive or stretch Noah gives them more leverage in any buyout conversations. Is Noah really willing to waste another year of what's left of his career sitting on the bench or will he be desperate and take less money to join someone like the Wolves?
buying noah out would be stupid if you are the knicks
In the SL. Didnt play inside the offense and likely would receive little playing to time. He may have asked them to do it.
This. He's older and more physically developed than most guys in SL which is why he flashed but he played selfishly and wasn't all that impressive imo. They must either have another move coming (1 for 2-3), are signing something like Alan Williams or David Nwaba or knew he wouldn't make the team and wanted the good will with his agent by doing it now.
Another thing worth noting, not being forced to waive or stretch Noah gives them more leverage in any buyout conversations. Is Noah really willing to waste another year of what's left of his career sitting on the bench or will he be desperate and take less money to join someone like the Wolves?
buying noah out would be stupid if you are the knicks
Why? If they want to be players in FA next year it's the surest path to clearing the space especially if KP refuses to wait for his extension and you have to clear Lee and stretch Noah. Negotiating a lower buyout number and stretching that is preferable.
second once you but him out you cant then stretch that...
you either stretch him or buy him out, you are not going to get both
First, it is possible hed take a buyout. He wants to play and if they make it clear hes not going to here, he may bite. Hes not going to take a huge haircut, but they could save something.
Second, Im pretty sure your wrong about stretching buyouts.
@KnickFilmSchool
21m21 minutes ago
More Knicks Film School Retweeted Daniel Foley
If the Knicks stretch Noah after September 1, his 2018-19 salary remains on the books and the final year of his contract is then stretched over 3 years. If he gives back money in a buyout, only the residual value of his contract is stretched
over Baker is certainly curious IMO. It was only 4 months ago that they thought enough of Williams to sign him to a deal with partial guarantees IIRC. Was he that bad in summer league? Was he any worse than Dotson?
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I'm not worried about the bottom of our roster. I'm worried about the top. Williams was never going to be a difference maker in the long run, so I'm going to trust the FO has a good reason for getting rid of him.
I'm not worried about the bottom of our roster. I'm worried about the top. Williams was never going to be a difference maker in the long run, so I'm going to trust the FO has a good reason for getting rid of him.
how a front office manages these seemingly minor transactions on the bottom of their roster is often indicative of their overall competence (or lack thereof). Sometimes stuff like this is a favor to an agent or some other stupid reason. I have no clue what happened here with Williams - but I don't agree with the idea that we can just ignore stuff like this because it doesn't involve major players.
RE: RE: first off noah is not taking a lower salary
second once you but him out you cant then stretch that...
you either stretch him or buy him out, you are not going to get both
First, it is possible hed take a buyout. He wants to play and if they make it clear hes not going to here, he may bite. Hes not going to take a huge haircut, but they could save something.
Second, Im pretty sure your wrong about stretching buyouts.
You can definitely stretch the remaining salary of buyouts. Nets did it with Deron Williams. He's owed 38 million the next 2 years. Could you get him to shave off 8 mill to go find another team?
I'm not worried about the bottom of our roster. I'm worried about the top. Williams was never going to be a difference maker in the long run, so I'm going to trust the FO has a good reason for getting rid of him.
how a front office manages these seemingly minor transactions on the bottom of their roster is often indicative of their overall competence (or lack thereof). Sometimes stuff like this is a favor to an agent or some other stupid reason. I have no clue what happened here with Williams - but I don't agree with the idea that we can just ignore stuff like this because it doesn't involve major players.
I agree. It also is the case that its not a case of taking care of the upper tier or lower tier of the roster. You can do BOTH.
You dont do this right now unless there is another move imminent. Was his contract non guaranteed? If so then it was an even dumber move because those are valuable to have as add ons in trades.
You dont do this right now unless there is another move imminent. Was his contract non guaranteed? If so then it was an even dumber move because those are valuable to have as add ons in trades.
It was a non-guaranteed contact. The current CBA changed how theyre handled in trades. Only the guaranteed portion of contracts are counted when computing outgoing salary.
Is a underrated to me. I am a fan, however where would he get minutes on this team. Maybe take a chance on vonleh?
Wouldn't mind if the Knicks took a chance on Vonleh as the backup 4, but man, this would be his fourth team in only a few years after being a top-10 pick.
Out of the many guys on the Knicks that are worthy of being cut he has the non-guaranteed contract. Also, even though from an NBA owner's perspective it's pennies, $100,000 of the contract becomes guaranteed on 8/1. If they decided that they'd probably end up cutting him anyway, they might as well save a few bucks in the process and do it now. All in all I agree with the posters who feel like this is more or less inconsequential.
can evaluate the FO on these moves, the issue with bottom roster guys is we really don't have a clue on what the issues are that lead to the moves:
Quote:
how a front office manages these seemingly minor transactions on the bottom of their roster is often indicative of their overall competence (or lack thereof). Sometimes stuff like this is a favor to an agent or some other stupid reason. I have no clue what happened here with Williams - but I don't agree with the idea that we can just ignore stuff like this because it doesn't involve major players.
Basing how good or bad a move is based on summer League play is pretty worthless. Basing how good or bad a move is without seeing the roster replacement is worthless too.
There can be a variety of reasons for Williams to be waved. assuming it is an act of incompetence is a reach.
It sounds like Fiz was the motivating factor in dropping Troy
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The release of Troy Williams also shows the struggle they may be having trying to find a home for Lee. The problem with Lee Im told isnt the interest its the fact of NY unwilling to take back any significant $.
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The release of Troy Williams also shows the struggle they may be having trying to find a home for Lee. The problem with Lee Im told isnt the interest its the fact of NY unwilling to take back any significant $.
Well, Lee is signed through 2020 so he'd count against the cap for the summer of 2019. You might as well get a younger player even if he is signed long-term than keep Lee.
Opening up more cap space with the Temple trade. Perry should be all over them trying to trade them Hardaway or Lee or both for expirings. Kings want to be good next year without a 1st round pick. Knicks should go all in on the youth movement.
so we can now trade with them (per league rules). I agree we should be all over it, but I doubt Mills would part with his precious Timmy.
Its the perfect situation. Maybe the Kings have no interest, but if they do they need to make it happen. Either trade him into space or take back expirings (Shumpert/ Randolph).
But I highly doubt the Knicks admit this mistake. I also have a strong dislike for Hardaway, especially for this young team. I dont want to watch him jack 25 shots a game on an awful team.
Seems like that's the only thing that matters to Vlade and Sacramento.
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Kevin Knox has been named to the All-NBA Summer League first team. #Knicks
Nice to see Knox on there but Robinson was robbed. Shouldve at least been on the second team. Led all players in PER, blocks per game (highest in SL history), and offensive rebounds per game (also highest in SL history).
they have to many nba contracts as it is, if thwy thought they could make a 2 for 1 trade there would be no reason to cut williams....
thwy have until game 1 to make that decision, unless jonnis right and williams agent said if there is any chance you are cutting him do it now
it is not about regrettjng the ml ove, it is just weird to do it now after he has been working out with fizdale and playrd well in summer leagur...
Or maybe they have someone else in mind for that roster spot. Much still to be revealed.
Quote:
He's got some upside I guess, but I am not too worried that we'll regret that move.
it is not about regrettjng the ml ove, it is just weird to do it now after he has been working out with fizdale and playrd well in summer leagur...
Which could mean the simplest answer...Fizdale and management weren't particularly impressed by what they saw and didn't feel the need to continue investing their time and resources.
If you trust Fizdale's talent eval skills, then its hard to knock this move after he just had an extensive look at the player.
And Williams who has the same willingness but is a plus NBA athlete.
I get that Baker has the stupid/guaranteed contract, but if they ate it, so what? What does it hurt other than $$? Its not like there are cap implications with Baker being expiring.
This. He's older and more physically developed than most guys in SL which is why he flashed but he played selfishly and wasn't all that impressive imo. They must either have another move coming (1 for 2-3), are signing something like Alan Williams or David Nwaba or knew he wouldn't make the team and wanted the good will with his agent by doing it now.
Another thing worth noting, not being forced to waive or stretch Noah gives them more leverage in any buyout conversations. Is Noah really willing to waste another year of what's left of his career sitting on the bench or will he be desperate and take less money to join someone like the Wolves?
Quote:
In the SL. Didnt play inside the offense and likely would receive little playing to time. He may have asked them to do it.
This. He's older and more physically developed than most guys in SL which is why he flashed but he played selfishly and wasn't all that impressive imo. They must either have another move coming (1 for 2-3), are signing something like Alan Williams or David Nwaba or knew he wouldn't make the team and wanted the good will with his agent by doing it now.
Another thing worth noting, not being forced to waive or stretch Noah gives them more leverage in any buyout conversations. Is Noah really willing to waste another year of what's left of his career sitting on the bench or will he be desperate and take less money to join someone like the Wolves?
buying noah out would be stupid if you are the knicks
Quote:
In comment 14014210 RAIN said:
Quote:
In the SL. Didnt play inside the offense and likely would receive little playing to time. He may have asked them to do it.
This. He's older and more physically developed than most guys in SL which is why he flashed but he played selfishly and wasn't all that impressive imo. They must either have another move coming (1 for 2-3), are signing something like Alan Williams or David Nwaba or knew he wouldn't make the team and wanted the good will with his agent by doing it now.
Another thing worth noting, not being forced to waive or stretch Noah gives them more leverage in any buyout conversations. Is Noah really willing to waste another year of what's left of his career sitting on the bench or will he be desperate and take less money to join someone like the Wolves?
buying noah out would be stupid if you are the knicks
Why? If they want to be players in FA next year it's the surest path to clearing the space especially if KP refuses to wait for his extension and you have to clear Lee and stretch Noah. Negotiating a lower buyout number and stretching that is preferable.
you either stretch him or buy him out, you are not going to get both
you either stretch him or buy him out, you are not going to get both
First, it is possible hed take a buyout. He wants to play and if they make it clear hes not going to here, he may bite. Hes not going to take a huge haircut, but they could save something.
Second, Im pretty sure your wrong about stretching buyouts.
@KnickFilmSchool
21m21 minutes ago
More Knicks Film School Retweeted Daniel Foley
If the Knicks stretch Noah after September 1, his 2018-19 salary remains on the books and the final year of his contract is then stretched over 3 years. If he gives back money in a buyout, only the residual value of his contract is stretched
how a front office manages these seemingly minor transactions on the bottom of their roster is often indicative of their overall competence (or lack thereof). Sometimes stuff like this is a favor to an agent or some other stupid reason. I have no clue what happened here with Williams - but I don't agree with the idea that we can just ignore stuff like this because it doesn't involve major players.
Quote:
second once you but him out you cant then stretch that...
you either stretch him or buy him out, you are not going to get both
First, it is possible hed take a buyout. He wants to play and if they make it clear hes not going to here, he may bite. Hes not going to take a huge haircut, but they could save something.
Second, Im pretty sure your wrong about stretching buyouts.
You can definitely stretch the remaining salary of buyouts. Nets did it with Deron Williams. He's owed 38 million the next 2 years. Could you get him to shave off 8 mill to go find another team?
Exactly, enough said.
Quote:
I'm not worried about the bottom of our roster. I'm worried about the top. Williams was never going to be a difference maker in the long run, so I'm going to trust the FO has a good reason for getting rid of him.
how a front office manages these seemingly minor transactions on the bottom of their roster is often indicative of their overall competence (or lack thereof). Sometimes stuff like this is a favor to an agent or some other stupid reason. I have no clue what happened here with Williams - but I don't agree with the idea that we can just ignore stuff like this because it doesn't involve major players.
I agree. It also is the case that its not a case of taking care of the upper tier or lower tier of the roster. You can do BOTH.
It was a non-guaranteed contact. The current CBA changed how theyre handled in trades. Only the guaranteed portion of contracts are counted when computing outgoing salary.
Wouldn't mind if the Knicks took a chance on Vonleh as the backup 4, but man, this would be his fourth team in only a few years after being a top-10 pick.
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Top 5 prospects in the 2018 #nbadraft class in PER @nbasummerleague (min. 3 GP / 20+ MPG)
1. Mitchell Robinson (35.0) @nyknicks
2. Wendell Carter (26.8) @chicagobulls
3. Svi Mykhailiuk (26.6) @Lakers
4. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (25.7) @LAClippers
5. Jaren Jackson (23.2) @memgrizz
he has no upside
he will be playing in Turkey or China by this time next year
Basing how good or bad a move is based on summer League play is pretty worthless. Basing how good or bad a move is without seeing the roster replacement is worthless too.
There can be a variety of reasons for Williams to be waved. assuming it is an act of incompetence is a reach.
And if that's the case, it'll be interesting to see how much rope they give Fiz in controlling the roster.
@JSports_ent
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The release of Troy Williams also shows the struggle they may be having trying to find a home for Lee. The problem with Lee Im told isnt the interest its the fact of NY unwilling to take back any significant $.
Quote:
Jesus Rodriguez
@JSports_ent
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The release of Troy Williams also shows the struggle they may be having trying to find a home for Lee. The problem with Lee Im told isnt the interest its the fact of NY unwilling to take back any significant $.
Well, Lee is signed through 2020 so he'd count against the cap for the summer of 2019. You might as well get a younger player even if he is signed long-term than keep Lee.
It's Summer League. Svi Mikhailiuk, who literally can't do anything but shoot, is #3 on that list.
Its the perfect situation. Maybe the Kings have no interest, but if they do they need to make it happen. Either trade him into space or take back expirings (Shumpert/ Randolph).
But I highly doubt the Knicks admit this mistake. I also have a strong dislike for Hardaway, especially for this young team. I dont want to watch him jack 25 shots a game on an awful team.
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Kevin Knox has been named to the All-NBA Summer League first team. #Knicks
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Kevin Knox has been named to the All-NBA Summer League first team. #Knicks
Nice to see Knox on there but Robinson was robbed. Shouldve at least been on the second team. Led all players in PER, blocks per game (highest in SL history), and offensive rebounds per game (also highest in SL history).