Ken Rosenthal
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More from Van Wagenen: “If the Mets don’t share same interest, we believe their best course of action is to seriously consider trade opportunities now.
The inertia of current situation could complicate Jacob’s relationship with the club and creates an atmosphere of indecision.”
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Ken Rosenthal
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CAA’s Brodie van Wagenen, agent for Jacob deGrom: “We have discussed Jacob’s future with the Mets at length. Jacob has expressed interest in exploring a long-term partnership that would keep him in a Mets uniform for years to come.” 1/2
That has nothing to do with deGrom and his agents quotes today. DeGrom acted like an asshole and that’s what I’m commenting on.
In what way did deGrom act like an asshole? His openness to sign an extension with this team in particular is about the most anti-asshole thing possible.
Don't compare him to Harvey, as Harvey gave the middle finger to the organization multiple times previously with his immaturity and irresponsibility. DeGrom has been a good soldier and an impeccably hard worker who has fought hard in every start, never giving up, even though the team and the organization hasn't done what they needed to do to match his efforts.
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A massive haul for deGrom but I’m not trading him for anything less than a franchise altering package. Something that would bring a team to its knees for a championship run or two.
That has nothing to do with deGrom and his agents quotes today. DeGrom acted like an asshole and that’s what I’m commenting on.
In what way did deGrom act like an asshole? His openness to sign an extension with this team in particular is about the most anti-asshole thing possible.
Don't compare him to Harvey, as Harvey gave the middle finger to the organization multiple times previously with his immaturity and irresponsibility. DeGrom has been a good soldier and an impeccably hard worker who has fought hard in every start, never giving up, even though the team and the organization hasn't done what they needed to do to match his efforts.
He is saying pay me or trade me. He is also saying he could become a distraction if nothing is done. This is way beyond asking for an extension. Ridiculous that people can’t seem to see the difference.
You're waisted
I don't want to get rid of Rosario and please forgive my ignorance but has/can Rosario play 2nd or 3rd base? I checked 2017 Baseball Reference (majors only) and he played SS exclusively. I would hate to move a young player around like that. We attempted this with Kaz Matsui and Jose Reyes.
2019 infield?
C- Mesaraco/Plawecki or FA signing
1B - Bruce/Flores
2B - Rosario/McNeil
SS - Manny Machado
3B - Rosario/Frazier
That being said - it's unlikely the Mets will go this route unless there is a serious change in organizational philosophy. Anyway it's unlikely and not a lot of creativity but it would certainly excite the fanbase and salvage productive years from the pitching staff.
Signing Machado must also be supplemented by moves to improve the bullpen.
but the Mets have very little chance at Machado being realistic.
What might be a better option would be trying to acquire Xander Bogaerts in a package for deGrom. Maybe include Groome and others.
Met can even flip Bogaerts if they want.
I also dont think the Mets should trade him this deadline. They need to get a new GM in here that has a clear vision of what he wants to do. THEN and only then do you decide what to do with Jake, Noah, Matz, and Wheeler. I do not trust the trifecta of Ricco, Ricciardi, and Minaya to be able to bring back the haul necessary to turn this franchise around.
otherwise, this is business by an agent.
His agent is right. Either trade him or sign him to a reasonable extension.
otherwise, this is business by an agent.
There’s no way his agent went public with this without deGroms blessing. No way. He would be fired in two seconds.
His agent is right. Either trade him or sign him to a reasonable extension.
Loooove how everyone is ignoring the create an atmosphere of indecision part. As if that’s common practice. No way. It’s a threat. Plain and simple.
Do you really consider Alonso and McNeil young?
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In comment 14014394 ZGiants98 said:
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A massive haul for deGrom but I’m not trading him for anything less than a franchise altering package. Something that would bring a team to its knees for a championship run or two.
That has nothing to do with deGrom and his agents quotes today. DeGrom acted like an asshole and that’s what I’m commenting on.
In what way did deGrom act like an asshole? His openness to sign an extension with this team in particular is about the most anti-asshole thing possible.
Don't compare him to Harvey, as Harvey gave the middle finger to the organization multiple times previously with his immaturity and irresponsibility. DeGrom has been a good soldier and an impeccably hard worker who has fought hard in every start, never giving up, even though the team and the organization hasn't done what they needed to do to match his efforts.
He is saying pay me or trade me. He is also saying he could become a distraction if nothing is done. This is way beyond asking for an extension. Ridiculous that people can’t seem to see the difference.
Where in the hell do you get this? I agree with you that his agent doesn't go there without his blessing, but saying his relationship with the club will be compromised is not the same as saying you will be a distraction to the team, which I do not believe deGrom would ever do that.
What he's communicating, at least how I see it, is that "complicating the relationship with the club" means that he will not consider an offer from the Mets in the future if they do not do right by him now. And I think that's fair, smart, and prudent for him to take this position. He got to the big leagues late, he needs to make his money in the near term, not 2.5 years from now when teams will be reticent to give him a 6 year deal even if he continues to perform at a high level. You should really step back and think this all the way through from deGrom's perspective, Z.
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Lineup has “some” good young pieces in Nimmo, Conforto, Rosario and guys like Alonso and McNeil close. They absolutely do need a “Machado” like bat to get things back on track but they aren’t a million pieces away.
Do you really consider Alonso and McNeil young?
Alonso is 23 and has been in the minors for 2 whopping years. So yeah. McNeil had a bunch of injuries but still has less atbats in the minors than Rosario did. These aren’t guys repeating levels because they’ve sucked. All 6 years of team controlled years they will be in their primes on the Mets...
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In comment 14014399 allstarjim said:
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In comment 14014394 ZGiants98 said:
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A massive haul for deGrom but I’m not trading him for anything less than a franchise altering package. Something that would bring a team to its knees for a championship run or two.
That has nothing to do with deGrom and his agents quotes today. DeGrom acted like an asshole and that’s what I’m commenting on.
In what way did deGrom act like an asshole? His openness to sign an extension with this team in particular is about the most anti-asshole thing possible.
Don't compare him to Harvey, as Harvey gave the middle finger to the organization multiple times previously with his immaturity and irresponsibility. DeGrom has been a good soldier and an impeccably hard worker who has fought hard in every start, never giving up, even though the team and the organization hasn't done what they needed to do to match his efforts.
He is saying pay me or trade me. He is also saying he could become a distraction if nothing is done. This is way beyond asking for an extension. Ridiculous that people can’t seem to see the difference.
Where in the hell do you get this? I agree with you that his agent doesn't go there without his blessing, but saying his relationship with the club will be compromised is not the same as saying you will be a distraction to the team, which I do not believe deGrom would ever do that.
What he's communicating, at least how I see it, is that "complicating the relationship with the club" means that he will not consider an offer from the Mets in the future if they do not do right by him now. And I think that's fair, smart, and prudent for him to take this position. He got to the big leagues late, he needs to make his money in the near term, not 2.5 years from now when teams will be reticent to give him a 6 year deal even if he continues to perform at a high level. You should really step back and think this all the way through from deGrom's perspective, Z.
I seriously don’t get why it’s so hard to discern this comment. It’s pretty clear cut....
The inertia of current situation could complicate Jacob’s relationship with the club and creates an atmosphere of indecision.”
Holy shit, your overreaction is insane.
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In comment 14014409 ZGiants98 said:
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Lineup has “some” good young pieces in Nimmo, Conforto, Rosario and guys like Alonso and McNeil close. They absolutely do need a “Machado” like bat to get things back on track but they aren’t a million pieces away.
Do you really consider Alonso and McNeil young?
Alonso is 23 and has been in the minors for 2 whopping years. So yeah. McNeil had a bunch of injuries but still has less atbats in the minors than Rosario did. These aren’t guys repeating levels because they’ve sucked. All 6 years of team controlled years they will be in their primes on the Mets...
I think both would be considered young if they were veterans or at least had been in the majors a year plus and had shown they could play at that level.
I don't consider them young when next year would be their rookie seasons and you have guys in your own Division like Soto, and a couple of Braves who are 19, 20, 21 etc and playing full time now.
Sorry but I don't think of guys in the 24 plus range as being young when it comes to rookies. Hell, it's even old for a rookie in football.
Also isn't McNeil going to be 26 by next spring?
Holy shit, your overreaction is insane.
Why should I as a fan be happy about the face of the franchise making threats and who are you to say otherwise? He flexed zero muscle. All he did was make himself look like an ass? Still waiting for you to explain what leverage he has.... and waiting...
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thing I've heard from Jake personally is (paraphrasing) "yeah, I do get tired of losing" - and how can you blame him.
otherwise, this is business by an agent.
There’s no way his agent went public with this without deGroms blessing. No way. He would be fired in two seconds.
deGrom knew about it, but I still think it's gamesmanship.
what indecision? He's under team control for two more seasons after this one. The Mets would be foolish to consider extending deGrom until they have to. Unless...deGrom takes a very team friendly deal.
If he's at the point in his life and he just wants to stay a Met for his career and wants that generational money the Mets really should entertain an extension, something like 5 years $80M and rip up the next two years makes sense. Makes it really 3 years $60M extension.
and he's still tradeable. Maybe even more tradeable. And he'll be 35 when the contract is up.
I'd have zero issue with that approach even if he gets hurt, or I'd have no issue with a massive haul in a trade, or do nothing until they have to. I don't want to lose him for nothing, so I wouldn't let it get to far into 2020 without trading him once it appears he won't re-sugn with the Mets.
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In comment 14014437 Eman11 said:
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In comment 14014409 ZGiants98 said:
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Lineup has “some” good young pieces in Nimmo, Conforto, Rosario and guys like Alonso and McNeil close. They absolutely do need a “Machado” like bat to get things back on track but they aren’t a million pieces away.
Do you really consider Alonso and McNeil young?
Alonso is 23 and has been in the minors for 2 whopping years. So yeah. McNeil had a bunch of injuries but still has less atbats in the minors than Rosario did. These aren’t guys repeating levels because they’ve sucked. All 6 years of team controlled years they will be in their primes on the Mets...
I think both would be considered young if they were veterans or at least had been in the majors a year plus and had shown they could play at that level.
I don't consider them young when next year would be their rookie seasons and you have guys in your own Division like Soto, and a couple of Braves who are 19, 20, 21 etc and playing full time now.
Sorry but I don't think of guys in the 24 plus range as being young when it comes to rookies. Hell, it's even old for a rookie in football.
Also isn't McNeil going to be 26 by next spring?
McNeil is older yes... but as I explained he had many injury filled years that held him back. A scout recently was quoted saying McNeil would be a solid 2B today if there was a spot.. Citing Alonso is a joke though. Was Judge old going into his first full season last year turning 25? Alonso has flown through the system just about as fast as humanly possible. 23 is not even remotely old for a college bat that is in AAA.
At least not when we see the talent playing at this level throughout the game with some 4-5 years younger than guys you mentioned. A guy like Soto is what I would call young.
I'm not saying they won't or can't be good and help, just disagree with the "young" part. That's all.
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it’s fucking business. He has to do what’s right for him, and the Mets will have to do what’s right for them. He didn’t do anything other than flex a little muscle after being a good soldier.
Holy shit, your overreaction is insane.
Why should I as a fan be happy about the face of the franchise making threats and who are you to say otherwise? He flexed zero muscle. All he did was make himself look like an ass? Still waiting for you to explain what leverage he has.... and waiting...
I can say whatever I want, no different than you. You are more then unhappy, you are acting like a scorned lover. If his “threat” is as empty as you say it is than you have nothing to worry about.
And I didn’t even see your previous post. But I happen to think that this is the absolute last thing the Mets thought would happen and pissing off thrnfanbase further is ammunition alone. It’s a big market, this isn’t the same as Milwaukee where ty can just let a pissed off enployee play for 2 years. This isn’t going away, not now, not in the offseason, not next year. Fiscally speaking he has zero leverage but that doesn’t always matter. His trade value also decreases the unhappier he is, also leverage.
At least not when we see the talent playing at this level throughout the game with some 4-5 years younger than guys you mentioned. A guy like Soto is what I would call young.
I'm not saying they won't or can't be good and help, just disagree with the "young" part. That's all.
That’s fine but I still don’t really get what your getting at. You seemed to be suggesting they are pieces we couldn’t build around. 6 years of control is all that matters. Maybe McNeil is 32 when he’s a free agent just like deGrom but it sure doesn’t hurt us any. Alonso would be 29.
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In comment 14014443 UConn4523 said:
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it’s fucking business. He has to do what’s right for him, and the Mets will have to do what’s right for them. He didn’t do anything other than flex a little muscle after being a good soldier.
Holy shit, your overreaction is insane.
Why should I as a fan be happy about the face of the franchise making threats and who are you to say otherwise? He flexed zero muscle. All he did was make himself look like an ass? Still waiting for you to explain what leverage he has.... and waiting...
I can say whatever I want, no different than you. You are more then unhappy, you are acting like a scorned lover. If his “threat” is as empty as you say it is than you have nothing to worry about.
And I didn’t even see your previous post. But I happen to think that this is the absolute last thing the Mets thought would happen and pissing off thrnfanbase further is ammunition alone. It’s a big market, this isn’t the same as Milwaukee where ty can just let a pissed off enployee play for 2 years. This isn’t going away, not now, not in the offseason, not next year. Fiscally speaking he has zero leverage but that doesn’t always matter. His trade value also decreases the unhappier he is, also leverage.
Oh please. His value doesn’t decrease based on how unhappy he is. Lol. He can be unhappy all he wants... the Mets still don’t have to trade him. Now if he becomes a cancer and refuses to play, etc? THEN he would have some leverage... but he isn’t going to do that. No chance. It’s all hot air.
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I just don't consider that to be young for rookies. Same for Judge.
At least not when we see the talent playing at this level throughout the game with some 4-5 years younger than guys you mentioned. A guy like Soto is what I would call young.
I'm not saying they won't or can't be good and help, just disagree with the "young" part. That's all.
That’s fine but I still don’t really get what your getting at. You seemed to be suggesting they are pieces we couldn’t build around. 6 years of control is all that matters. Maybe McNeil is 32 when he’s a free agent just like deGrom but it sure doesn’t hurt us any. Alonso would be 29.
I don't know why you would think I was suggesting anything like that when I said the opposite in the last sentence of my previous post.
I guess my point is if they were what I considered to be young, you'd have a brighter, longer future with them as part of the club.
I guess we'll just agree to disagree on what we deem young for MLB players. Like I said, no biggie.
That is 2.5 years away. I honestly don’t even think that’s a bad option. We get two more years of ace control (likely his best years). That has no value?? Also you have no idea how he will look by then. If his stuff is diminished or he’s had to have gone through another injury we could extend him for peanuts. Nobody knows what will happen but why take on the risk now? It’s like fans go completely blank when it’s contract time. How has Wright and Cespedes’s contracts worked out? How has it gone keeping are hard throwing starting pitching staff together? How many injuries have we had to go through before people realize these guys likely aren’t going to compete at high levels well into their 30s and they are not reliable.
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In comment 14014452 Eman11 said:
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I just don't consider that to be young for rookies. Same for Judge.
At least not when we see the talent playing at this level throughout the game with some 4-5 years younger than guys you mentioned. A guy like Soto is what I would call young.
I'm not saying they won't or can't be good and help, just disagree with the "young" part. That's all.
That’s fine but I still don’t really get what your getting at. You seemed to be suggesting they are pieces we couldn’t build around. 6 years of control is all that matters. Maybe McNeil is 32 when he’s a free agent just like deGrom but it sure doesn’t hurt us any. Alonso would be 29.
I don't know why you would think I was suggesting anything like that when I said the opposite in the last sentence of my previous post.
I guess my point is if they were what I considered to be young, you'd have a brighter, longer future with them as part of the club.
I guess we'll just agree to disagree on what we deem young for MLB players. Like I said, no biggie.
Np Eman
You can say the same thing about his trade value. It’s pretty obvious that you are worried deGrom won’t age well. If the Mets ride out this 2.5 years, there is virtually zero chance that deGrom rewards them by signing an extension at that point. Sure they can wait to deal him a year from now. Or two years from now. But now he’s another year or two older with a year or two less controllable years. His trade value only goes down from here. Unless you feel the Mets will win a championship in the next two years, losing this opportunity to cash in may be a huge mistake. Yay! For the next two seasons you can say you’re robbing deGrom blind. Just because you can. Great. Then what?
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You can extend him now for cheap. I could see Wheeler taking a three-year team-friendly extension after all he's been through and capitalize on signing somebody while their value is still LOW (still considered an injury risk by most). I'm not interested in extending a guy out three years from now when his value is SKY HIGH and likely higher than it will ever be then in this current point in time.
You can say the same thing about his trade value. It’s pretty obvious that you are worried deGrom won’t age well. If the Mets ride out this 2.5 years, there is virtually zero chance that deGrom rewards them by signing an extension at that point. Sure they can wait to deal him a year from now. Or two years from now. But now he’s another year or two older with a year or two less controllable years. His trade value only goes down from here. Unless you feel the Mets will win a championship in the next two years, losing this opportunity to cash in may be a huge mistake. Yay! For the next two seasons you can say you’re robbing deGrom blind. Just because you can. Great. Then what?
Huh? Zack Wheeler will be 29 when he is a free agent, not 32/33 first of all. Secondly, Wheeler might be able to be extended now for 3 years, 30 million....due to his injury history, etc. In other words peanuts and very little risk. deGrom is going to want a 150-ish million dollar extension and you are talking about something 3 years out. Why is it so difficult to see the massive difference between these two situations.
It’s a negative that Alonso is 23 years old in AAA...and you really consider that “not young”? And your reasoning is because there are a handful of players in the league that came up at 19, 20, 21?
Jesus Christ...that’s out there.
It’s a negative that Alonso is 23 years old in AAA...and you really consider that “not young”? And your reasoning is because there are a handful of players in the league that came up at 19, 20, 21?
Jesus Christ...that’s out there.
correct, Soto, Albies, Acuna, and Soroka arriving at such young ages is extremely rare and not the norm. 23 for AAA is not old at all.
I also dont mind if we trade him for a haul but the return better be pure insanity.
I think he would only because he has been through SOOO much. The guy missed the last 2.5 years and he still hasn't completed a full season yet. He might look at 30 million guaranteed as a nice safeguard for a few years and he can still enter the market possibly one more time if he has a string of health. He also is very vocal about wanting to remain a Met and not wanting to be traded. He's the opposite of deGrom. Sure if he pitches all of next year he would be set up for more in 2020 but if he gets injured again he likely gets nothing.
Im not concerned about deGrom falling off a cliff over the next 2.5 years. Im afraid of him falling off a cliff between his 33-37-year-old years IE the very expensive extension. His value will still be fine and dandy for the foreseeable future. No rush to trade him now AT ALL.
It’s a negative that Alonso is 23 years old in AAA...and you really consider that “not young”? And your reasoning is because there are a handful of players in the league that came up at 19, 20, 21?
Jesus Christ...that’s out there.
Reading comp?
I never killed anyone and also questioned McNeil being called young. I think there's more than a handful of guys 19,20 21, and even more younger than the two Mets prospects already performing at a high level in the Majors.
To me when I see the pro game getting younger and younger, yes I consider rookie players 24 and 26 to not be "young".
I didn't consider Judge being young for a rookie either but that doesn't mean he or they can't have good careers. Just had they come up a few years earlier with the same talent, their teams would have a longer brighter future with them.
You may get the ssme bidding war with a 31/31 year old free agent from a 24/25 year old rookie, but definitely not to the same extent.
pick your poison.
for example, I know Jay may deny it, but the Braves will not be paying this crop of youngsters. You're looking at future Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers playing in Atlanta right now.
Every year he moves away from 30 the more his value decreases. Every year he goes untraded is another year less of a cost controlled asset. Whoever trades for DeGrom wants the security of those 2+ years before having to pay him. If that's now 1.5 years or less, he almost becomes a rental.
Who exactly is offering the same for DeGrom in July 2019 that they are in July 2018?
That logic makes absolutely zero sense. Fucking zero.
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Where the hell do you come up with this shit? I spoke only of deGrom. If you are so afraid of him falling off a cliff, then fucking trade him while the value is at its highest! If you’re so damned concerned about the cost, and you and the Mets always are, then trade the guy. That team isn’t winning a championship in the next two years. Period. And they have a whole bunch of catching up to do if they want to compete with Atlanta for the next decade. What does keeping deGrom accomplish? You get to say that you paid him peanuts while performing at an elite level and now he’s gone for nothing? He’s not signing an extension with the Mets if they let this drag on. So your choices are simple. Trade him now when his value is at its peak. Give him an extension. Or lose him after 2.5 years and get nothing back. But hey, at least you’d have showed him who’s boss!
Im not concerned about deGrom falling off a cliff over the next 2.5 years. Im afraid of him falling off a cliff between his 33-37-year-old years IE the very expensive extension. His value will still be fine and dandy for the foreseeable future. No rush to trade him now AT ALL.
You’re insane if you think his trade value will do anything but go down. So, another year older, less years of control As well as hoping that he not only stays healthy (you’ve already mentioned numerous times about his injury concerns) AND continues to pitch like he currently is, which is on an all world level? That’s a lot of risks to be taking when evaluating what his trade value will be down the road. You act as if they will certainly get the same haul in two years if they decide to trade him then. But that couldn’t be further from reality.
Every year he moves away from 30 the more his value decreases. Every year he goes untraded is another year less of a cost controlled asset. Whoever trades for DeGrom wants the security of those 2+ years before having to pay him. If that's now 1.5 years or less, he almost becomes a rental.
Who exactly is offering the same for DeGrom in July 2019 that they are in July 2018?
That logic makes absolutely zero sense. Fucking zero.
First of all, I have said repeatedly I would take a MASSIVE haul for deGrom now. Secondly, an ace with a 1.5 years of control left in July of 2019 will still bring back a huge haul if he is pitching like he is now. Same for this offseason with 2 years left. Same for the offseason after that with one entire year left. A team desperate for a championship will give up the goods for a player of that caliber period and Im talking multiple top prospects. We gave up ALLSTAR Fulmer for 2 MONTHS of Cespedes. The Giants gave up Zack Wheeler for 2 MONTHS of Beltran. Dont tell me we cant still get value back at any point in time. In fact, the packages offered now might very well be less than whats available next year. Could be completely different teams involved and different pools of prospects to choose from.
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In comment 14014483 BigBlueShock said:
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Where the hell do you come up with this shit? I spoke only of deGrom. If you are so afraid of him falling off a cliff, then fucking trade him while the value is at its highest! If you’re so damned concerned about the cost, and you and the Mets always are, then trade the guy. That team isn’t winning a championship in the next two years. Period. And they have a whole bunch of catching up to do if they want to compete with Atlanta for the next decade. What does keeping deGrom accomplish? You get to say that you paid him peanuts while performing at an elite level and now he’s gone for nothing? He’s not signing an extension with the Mets if they let this drag on. So your choices are simple. Trade him now when his value is at its peak. Give him an extension. Or lose him after 2.5 years and get nothing back. But hey, at least you’d have showed him who’s boss!
Im not concerned about deGrom falling off a cliff over the next 2.5 years. Im afraid of him falling off a cliff between his 33-37-year-old years IE the very expensive extension. His value will still be fine and dandy for the foreseeable future. No rush to trade him now AT ALL.
You’re insane if you think his trade value will do anything but go down. So, another year older, less years of control As well as hoping that he not only stays healthy (you’ve already mentioned numerous times about his injury concerns) AND continues to pitch like he currently is, which is on an all world level? That’s a lot of risks to be taking when evaluating what his trade value will be down the road. You act as if they will certainly get the same haul in two years if they decide to trade him then. But that couldn’t be further from reality.
Im guessing he still brings back a lot AT LEAST through the deadline of next year. I also dont really give a shit if his value goes down some. The Mets system is not as bad as people think. We arent desperate to add prospects to our horrid system. We have young cost controlled players already in the majors. The Mets could very well be adding rather than subtracting. Im not interested in making a trade just to make a trade out of fear he might not be worth as much in 2019/2020.