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Nicks-Cruz-Manningham

Aqua Giants : 7/16/2018 6:45 pm
I wish these guys stayed together and stayed healthy for years upon years. No way I would believe you have told me after the 2011 run this is how things unfolded for those three.

Cruz and Nicks are 31 and 30. Why couldn't we just enjoy some time at the top before falling from the sky and onto our faces?
Injuries  
BillT : 7/16/2018 6:54 pm : link
Injuries have been the number one reason for the issues the Giants have had. They have decimated this team in a way no other team in the league has suffered. More than bad coaching or bad drafting or bad FA pickups, injuries have been the consistent factor on the down years we have suffered through. Our last three coaches have been fired coming of one or multiple years of brutal injuries. Odds say it should turn around. It hasn't yet.
Not to mention  
Knee of Theismann : 7/16/2018 7:16 pm : link
Plaxico probably had a few good years left after 2008 if he hadn't shot himself. And Steve Smith had a pro-bowl season in 2009 before injury ended him as well.
It's very sad what happened to Nicks  
Jay on the Island : 7/16/2018 7:21 pm : link
He was arguably a top 5 WR in the NFL in 2012 and he got hurt in a game versus TB where he was burning Aqib Talib all day, over 170 yards I believe. He was never the same after that.
Manningham wrecked his knee with  
RetroJint : 7/16/2018 7:28 pm : link
the Niners. Like with Nicks, the Giants brought him back only to find out that he couldn’t play anymore . Mark Barron effectively ended Nicks career. Not only did he sustain serious damage to his knee from the cheap shot delivered by a filthy Tampa Bay defense, it also made him reluctant to compete . At least that was my impression .

If they suffer similar injuries this season , they will lose again . The one recent successful year was , not coincidentally , marked by a reduction in injuries . Everybody has injuries . But the Giants always seem to get more than their fair share . I was at the Chargers game last year when just about the entire group of wide receivers busted ankles .

You can only hope that Beckham rebounds and stays healthy for another 5-6 seasons. And that he remains a Giant throughout .
fond memories  
GoBlue6599 : 7/16/2018 7:41 pm : link
Some may forget in 2010 when Steve Smith got hurt Nicks and Mario were one hell of a tandem
In that terrible collapse to the Eagles Mario was ripping there secondary to shreds .. I really believe the 2010 team could've and should've went further if not for that terrible 2nd half vs the the Eagles that kept them out of the playoffs
GoBlue  
CRinCA : 7/16/2018 7:48 pm : link
And if not for that collapse against the Eagles (Thank you Matt Dodge) the Packers don't back into the playoffs.

And Aaron Rodgers is ring less.
Seems like every time the Giants draft a WR or CB high...  
jnoble : 7/16/2018 10:42 pm : link
...they don't last long before injuries ruin them prematurely
RE: Seems like every time the Giants draft a WR or CB high...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/16/2018 11:14 pm : link
In comment 14014588 jnoble said:
Quote:
...they don't last long before injuries ruin them prematurely


WRs yes, but cornerbacks? Other than sehorn, what was the last highly picked CB that lost his career to injury?
My Personal Takes  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 7/17/2018 2:03 am : link
The Giants gave up on Cruz too quickly. The guy busted his ass going through rehab hell for two years expecting to get back into the lineup.

Not surprisingly, he didn't show up in camp at 100%, or 90% or 80%. The Giants dumped him. Someone so important to the last Lombardi Trophy should have been kept around and the team should have worked with him. If loyalty is expected from a player, loyalty should be shown.

Nicks was the subject of one of the worst displays of ignorance and crudity ever seen on BBI. His last season here many of the more dominant posters were accusing Nicks of doggin' it over unhappiness that his contract had not been done. Right. The guy is in his contract year and he's going to intentionally not hustle to catch balls or break up interceptions. Really bright.

Nicks, like Cruz, was a player without whom they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl, but the Giants made little effort to keep him. Besides his performance against the Packers, in the Super Bowl he caught 10 passes for 8 first downs.

I believe that he was healthy in 2012, but wound up in a terrible place to make a comeback. Andrew Luck looked first for T.Y. Hilton on every passing play, like Manning looking for Beckham. Veteran Reggie Wayne was a familiar second receiver and TE Coby Fleener was a fine third target.

Nicks was reduced to the fourth receiver, and every time the ball was thrown to him he was expected to perform. He didn't. He dropped some balls and did nothing exceptional and the Colts soured on him quickly.

Both Cruz and Nicks deserved better treatment, but at least they have their rings, which they earned.


RE: My Personal Takes  
aquidneck : 7/17/2018 3:27 am : link
In comment 14014645 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:
Quote:
The Giants gave up on Cruz too quickly. The guy busted his ass going through rehab hell for two years expecting to get back into the lineup.

Not surprisingly, he didn't show up in camp at 100%, or 90% or 80%. The Giants dumped him. Someone so important to the last Lombardi Trophy should have been kept around and the team should have worked with him. If loyalty is expected from a player, loyalty should be shown.

Nicks was the subject of one of the worst displays of ignorance and crudity ever seen on BBI. His last season here many of the more dominant posters were accusing Nicks of doggin' it over unhappiness that his contract had not been done. Right. The guy is in his contract year and he's going to intentionally not hustle to catch balls or break up interceptions. Really bright.

Nicks, like Cruz, was a player without whom they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl, but the Giants made little effort to keep him. Besides his performance against the Packers, in the Super Bowl he caught 10 passes for 8 first downs.

I believe that he was healthy in 2012, but wound up in a terrible place to make a comeback. Andrew Luck looked first for T.Y. Hilton on every passing play, like Manning looking for Beckham. Veteran Reggie Wayne was a familiar second receiver and TE Coby Fleener was a fine third target.

Nicks was reduced to the fourth receiver, and every time the ball was thrown to him he was expected to perform. He didn't. He dropped some balls and did nothing exceptional and the Colts soured on him quickly.

Both Cruz and Nicks deserved better treatment, but at least they have their rings, which they earned.



Neither Cruz nor Nicks was physically capable of playing in the league anymore.

Football is a brutal game that destroys bodies. And the NFL doesn't put up with those on active rosters. Both players lost just enough speed and quickness to go from all-star to new career doing something outside of competitive sports.
RE: RE: My Personal Takes  
mrvax : 7/17/2018 4:28 am : link
In comment 14014647 aquidneck said:
Quote:
Neither Cruz nor Nicks was physically capable of playing in the league anymore.

Football is a brutal game that destroys bodies. And the NFL doesn't put up with those on active rosters. Both players lost just enough speed and quickness to go from all-star to new career doing something outside of competitive sports.


Very well said.
I don't know..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/17/2018 8:17 am : link
how many times it has to be pointed out that Nicks was never healthy again - and will never be completely healthy:

Quote:
I believe that he was healthy in 2012, but wound up in a terrible place to make a comeback. Andrew Luck looked first for T.Y. Hilton on every passing play, like Manning looking for Beckham. Veteran Reggie Wayne was a familiar second receiver and TE Coby Fleener was a fine third target.


He has permanent nerve damage in his lower leg. The fact he even suited up again is something to marvel at.

This is the dirty side of football. The fact Nicks could make a roster even though he had lost speed and his explosiveness due to the leg injury shows just how good he was, and because it was an injury that wasn't well circulated to the public, many people feel he just faded away. Same can be said of Cruz too.
Nicks was never the same athlete after the Tampa injury  
JonC : 7/17/2018 8:31 am : link
The same with Cruz after the knee and hamstring. The Giants effectively paid him to rehab for two years and the results just weren't there when he finally got back on the field. His signature burst and quickness in small spaces which made him special were gone.

I believe Retro's point re: Nicks being reluctant is also accurate. Everyone inside the locker room seemed to understand why he couldn't pull the trigger despite it being a contract year and were also frustrated by it being costly in game, was my impression.

It is what it is, good examples of the kind of things that don't often get printed in the media. I'm not sure what else the team could've done to support their comebacks, the wheels weren't working. They failed to stick with other teams or get another look.
I will again..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/17/2018 8:45 am : link
reiterate that Nicks was never fully capable of competing again:

Quote:
Not only did he sustain serious damage to his knee from the cheap shot delivered by a filthy Tampa Bay defense, it also made him reluctant to compete . At least that was my impression .


It wasn't the knee that was the issue. It was the lingering effect from compartment syndrome that has caused a loss of sensation in his lower leg that will remain for life.

He wasn't reluctant to complete - heck, the guy tried to play again with us and the Colts and just couldn't.
To my eye it looked like  
JonC : 7/17/2018 8:53 am : link
he pulled up with alligator arms a few times in traffic.

There was a reluctance there, understandable given what he was dealing with and what he likely knew was gone in terms of a contract extension that would've created a financial legacy for him. The fear between the ears was real for certain, I give him a ton of credit just for getting back on the field.

Nicks will end up being my favorite Giant of the last 10 years  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 7/17/2018 9:18 am : link
Just loved the guy, and the 2011 run is the equal to Plaxico's in terms of performance.
RE: fond memories  
lax counsel : 7/17/2018 9:23 am : link
In comment 14014474 GoBlue6599 said:
Quote:
Some may forget in 2010 when Steve Smith got hurt Nicks and Mario were one hell of a tandem
In that terrible collapse to the Eagles Mario was ripping there secondary to shreds .. I really believe the 2010 team could've and should've went further if not for that terrible 2nd half vs the the Eagles that kept them out of the playoffs


That 2010 team was super bowl quality. They showed for 52 minutes against the eagles how dominant they could be. Mental lapses cost them dearly and it carried over next week into Green Bay. Shame how that season ended. The Giants had some really good teams 2005-2012, they got two championships out of it, but it always felt like they never fulfilled potential in other years.
I blame Coughlin for Hakeem Nicks injuries  
youtoo2 : 7/17/2018 12:32 pm : link
Nicks hurt his foot in the spring of 2012. He was brought back too soon. He reinjured himself in that 500 yard Eli Manning game against Tampa Bay. Coughlin continued to bring him back too soon and then after 2012 he was in huge decline.

Coughlin has a long track record of bringing players back too soon. The Giants had a long history of players having back to back ACLs which tends to happen when they get brought back too quick.

I also do not trust Coughlin with Cruz reinjuring himself. One thing I liked about McAdoo was that if there was any doubt,there was no doubt. The player was down. Don't risk it. The exception was with Beckham. They should have sat him longer even though the Giants were desperate.

I would rather lose some games right now, then have a player have recurring injuries and then end up diminished.

If there is any doubt leave them out unless its a playoff game or you need the win for the playoffs.
Neither Nicks..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/17/2018 12:34 pm : link
nor Cruz suffered injuries by coming back too soon.

Cruz actually suffered a calf injury compensating for the knee. It was done in training, not in a game.

Nicks never reinjured himself. His compartment syndrome after effects is what led to his eventual retirement.
And by the way..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/17/2018 12:37 pm : link
what is this supposed to mean?

Quote:
One thing I liked about McAdoo was that if there was any doubt,there was no doubt. The player was down. Don't risk it


Complete bullshit. Jenkins played from week 1 with a bad ankle last year. Collins played through multiple injuries.

The year before, Vernon played through a broken hand for the first half of the season. Pugh played through injury for most of the past two years and also sat out and came back from injuries.

do people just make shit up to try and support a point?
All 3  
tikimvp : 7/17/2018 2:42 pm : link
were likely a bit overrated and boosted by Eli's best years.
RE: All 3  
GoBlue6599 : 7/17/2018 4:56 pm : link
In comment 14014991 tikimvp said:
Quote:
were likely a bit overrated and boosted by Eli's best years.

I disagree all were very good.. If you wanna credit there sucess to Eli then why were Sinorice Moss, Ramses Barden and Tim Carter such huge flops?
All teams have injuries  
Alwaysblue22 : 7/17/2018 5:37 pm : link
The Giants have been plagued with a lack of depth on the roster. The Result of poor drafting in the lower rounds. Hopefully that will change under DG.
RE: All 3  
Sonic Youth : 7/17/2018 5:47 pm : link
In comment 14014991 tikimvp said:
Quote:
were likely a bit overrated and boosted by Eli's best years.
I don't think that's fair. Cruz had arguably the greatest season by a slot WR ever in 2011 (considering he didn't even start the first couple games).
Injuries  
stretch234 : 7/17/2018 7:44 pm : link
Please tell me another NFL that has had to deal with career ending injuries to players the caliber of Smith, Nicks, Philips, Thomas, Manningham, Cruz

Plus Wilson, Alford, C Jones, how about Bradshaw and his feet a few years In. Plax and his shooting. So Tim was a bad fit but was done at 24. How about Wilkinson at LB.

Many of these guys were font line players that require high draft picks to replace

How about losing as we and Baas at 31 to career ending injuries at positions routinely played to mid 30s

Yes everyone has injuries. No other NFL team has come close to losing skill players
Nicks was never the same after that Tampa game  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/17/2018 8:15 pm : link
in 2012, where he was an absolute beast.

If you asked me summer 2012 about Nicks' future, I'd have told you'd he break every Giants receiving record. It's a damn shame what happened to him.
RE: RE: All 3  
tikimvp : 7/17/2018 10:36 pm : link
In comment 14015050 GoBlue6599 said:
Quote:
In comment 14014991 tikimvp said:


Quote:


were likely a bit overrated and boosted by Eli's best years.


I disagree all were very good.. If you wanna credit there sucess to Eli then why were Sinorice Moss, Ramses Barden and Tim Carter such huge flops?


Because they were absolutely terrible NFL WRs? I didn't say Eli was a magician.
This is the one  
eric2425ny : 7/18/2018 7:21 am : link
area I give Reese a pass on. He and his staff were excellent at drafting WR’s, but unfortunately none of them could stay healthy and they weren’t injury prone in college either. I mean Nicks (1st rd), Smith (2nd Rd), Manningham (4th Rd), Cruz (undrafted), Beckham (1st), Shepard (2nd). That’s a pretty solid track record at WR. The only early rounder that was a “bust” would be Randle, but he was at least somewhat productive.
RE: RE: Seems like every time the Giants draft a WR or CB high...  
jdf : 7/18/2018 7:29 am : link
In comment 14014600 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14014588 jnoble said:


Quote:


...they don't last long before injuries ruin them prematurely



WRs yes, but cornerbacks? Other than sehorn, what was the last highly picked CB that lost his career to injury?


Terrell Thomas, 2nd round pick. His loss has somehow been overshadowed, but he was turning into a good player.
Terrell Thomas was a tremendous loss  
JonC : 7/18/2018 8:22 am : link
Football players with his versatility and relentless performance are becoming harder to find.
Kenny Phillips  
eric2425ny : 7/18/2018 8:50 am : link
At Safety was another frustrating injury case. He was shaping up to be an excellent player. At CB, Ross seemed to be nicked up a lot as well. I feel like that took away from his explosiveness.
RE: All 3  
Greg from LI : 7/18/2018 9:08 am : link
In comment 14014991 tikimvp said:
Quote:
were likely a bit overrated and boosted by Eli's best years.


Are we still doing this bullshit? Cmon.
Why can’t it be that  
dep026 : 7/18/2018 9:16 am : link
The 3 WRs and Eli were not only very good but also played very well together? Manningham had some brain farts, but when the offense was clicking, those 4 were tough to stop.
RE: RE: RE: Seems like every time the Giants draft a WR or CB high...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/18/2018 10:39 am : link
In comment 14015236 jdf said:
Quote:
In comment 14014600 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 14014588 jnoble said:


Quote:


...they don't last long before injuries ruin them prematurely



WRs yes, but cornerbacks? Other than sehorn, what was the last highly picked CB that lost his career to injury?



Terrell Thomas, 2nd round pick. His loss has somehow been overshadowed, but he was turning into a good player.


Totally whiffed on that. Yeah, he could've been a good one.
The Nicks and Cruz injuries were really sad...  
Matt G : 7/18/2018 4:16 pm : link
Nicks was phenomenal down the stretch of 2011 and right up until that Tampa game in 2012. I wouldn't have taken any WR in the NFL (not named Calvin Johnson) over Nicks at that time...

I know all teams suffer injuries but the number of career ending / altering injuries the Giants suffered to very promising young players was brutal

Steve Smith
Kenny Phillips
Terrell Thomas
Hakeem Nicks
JPP
Victor Cruz
David Wilson
One of my favorite pictures  
pjcas18 : 7/18/2018 4:20 pm : link
from that era.

RE: One of my favorite pictures  
bradshaw44 : 7/18/2018 4:30 pm : link
In comment 14015676 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
from that era.




That was my screensaver for about 5 years. Great pic.
Funny how..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/18/2018 4:38 pm : link
that game spawned screensavers.

Mine used to be Tynes running off the field with Giants in pursuit:

RE: One of my favorite pictures  
Big Blue '56 : 7/18/2018 4:51 pm : link
In comment 14015676 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
from that era.



One of my faves as well. I have it signed by all 3
I remember Nicks being relatively  
dep026 : 7/18/2018 10:36 pm : link
Quiet that game and on MM’s TD, he seemed more excited than anyone. That’s team chemistry and a genuine brotherhood we haven’t seen in a long time.
RE: I remember Nicks being relatively  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 7/19/2018 8:32 am : link
In comment 14015903 dep026 said:
Quote:
Quiet that game and on MM�s TD, he seemed more excited than anyone. That�s team chemistry and a genuine brotherhood we haven�t seen in a long time.


If I remember correctly, they bracketed Nicks - hottest WR in the league - and put Rogers on Cruz. That led to the first half where Cruz slaughtered Rogers for like 11 catches and the famous Rogers quote : "I can't cover that option route all day!"
RE: Not to mention  
RinR : 7/19/2018 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14014464 Knee of Theismann said:
Quote:
Plaxico probably had a few good years left after 2008 if he hadn't shot himself.


Possibly in 2009 and 2010 but after missing those 2 seasons he had a serviceable in 2011 with the Jets: 45-612-13.6-8

Not so much in 2012 back with the Steelers and of course that was the end of it.
RE: I remember Nicks being relatively  
Aqua Giants : 7/19/2018 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14015903 dep026 said:
Quote:
Quiet that game and on MM’s TD, he seemed more excited than anyone. That’s team chemistry and a genuine brotherhood we haven’t seen in a long time.


Didn't he get injured? and thats when Cruz started catching less balls, I think Cruz caught 10, 8 of which were in the first half...didnt help the Giants line got completely owned in that game though.
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