"Leonard and DeRozan are both aware that an agreement could be imminent, and neither is expressing enthusiasm for the deal, league sources said." Link - ( New Window )
Guess I need to see the full trade. Maybe they think DeRozan fits their team better with an older Aldridge, etc. I would want younger assets in return. I am not a Lonzo fan but I think I’d rather take a chance on him than a 28 year old DeRozan.
I guess part of it is probably just an “F you” to Kawhi. Don’t want to play for us? Fine, go to Canada. Although Toronto is a great city and that Raptors team would win a lot.
of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
RE: RE: I heard yesterday that the Lakers aren't offering anything Â
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
That's a great idea until Kawhi pulls a Paul George (remember, EVERYONE thought he was going to the Lakers) or Jerry West convinces him to sign with the Clips.
RE: RE: I heard yesterday that the Lakers aren't offering anything Â
of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
Guess I need to see the full trade. Maybe they think DeRozan fits their team better with an older Aldridge, etc. I would want younger assets in return. I am not a Lonzo fan but I think I’d rather take a chance on him than a 28 year old DeRozan.
I guess part of it is probably just an “F you” to Kawhi. Don’t want to play for us? Fine, go to Canada. Although Toronto is a great city and that Raptors team would win a lot.
San Antonio probably looks at themselves as being close to contending. They won 47 games last year without Kawhi, now add DeRozan to that team and is it outlandish to think he brings them to 55 or so wins?
of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
You make it sound like a fact? The Lakers are not that much worse than the Cavs, I would actually say they are a bit better and a bit deeper. They play in the West but they will make the playoffs. They are better than the Blazers, Wolves and Pelicans Imo.
but admittedly i am not a huge Derozan fan. They can make a legit finals run if Kawhi is healthy. And even if Kawhi walks (which he probably will) they can completely rebuild their roster after the following season. This will help them not get stuck in the middle ground as teams like BOS and PHI become the dominant east teams.
This is def good news for the Lakers though, i mean i just cant see Kawhi staying in TOR long term. I still agree that the lakers are dropping the ball here, Lebron is not in his mid twenties, not sure how many years you want to waste.
of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
You make it sound like a fact? The Lakers are not that much worse than the Cavs, I would actually say they are a bit better and a bit deeper. They play in the West but they will make the playoffs. They are better than the Blazers, Wolves and Pelicans Imo.
umm yeah it is a fact they will not win a championship...
I think this is a great trade for spurs. I have always been a believer that Leonard is a product of a system versus actually being a superstar capable of carrying a team. Tom Duncan and company hid his weaknesses a bit. Plus he has a injury history and a very questionable work ethic based on what transpired last year.
Derozan also is a product of a system but I think organizations like the spurs always find a way to make the most of those players.
RE: RE: RE: I heard yesterday that the Lakers aren't offering anything Â
of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
GTFO. May not make playoffs lol. Maybe if lebron gets hurt.
of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
GTFO. May not make playoffs lol. Maybe if lebron gets hurt.
ok they will make the playoffs but they are far from a contender and have zero chance at championship
and what happened with George that the Lakers didn’t cave. Even if Kawhi signs there Lebron will be 35 by the time the playoffs roll around in 2020. That leaves them a 1, maybe 2 year window to win a title? Even Lebron can’t defeat Father Time. Only Brady can and who knows what he’s putting in his body...
3rd best record in the West. For as much talent as there in the West... it’s pretty spread out. I don’t see the spurs, thunder, pelicans, wolves, or blazers really threatening the top 3.
doesnt make a whole lot of sense. Without him, not sure they can beat Houston. With him they can definitely challenge and possibly beat GS. LeBron is a freak, he's also no spring chicken. I can see the argument for waiting for KL's free agency but I don't agree with it. You're not playing for next year with LeBron at this stage. You should be trying to win 4 titles in a row.
I think the Thunder definitely can be better than the Lakers, Â
Kawhi is not going to the Lakers. If LA ends up being the final destination it will be with the Clippers. I don’t think he wants to play second fiddle to James. And Jerry West will end up, like he always does when in charge, building a very formidable team with the Clippers.
As for this trade, I won’t call it a done deal until Kawhi shows up. His uncle has polluted his mind, so I would not rule out more lunacy - like Kawhi not taking the physical, not even setting foot in Canada, and threatening to sit out the entire season. That’s how whacked Team Kawhi is...
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just Â
If LAL has assembled as poor a structured team as many of us think (no shot blockers, minimal shooting, overstocked with facilitators), then wasting a year of what is left of LBJs prime isn't wise.
kawhi and green for derozan poetle and a protected 19 1st Â
I really could see Kawhi saying, 'F*ck this. I'm not going to Toronto.' & sitting out the entire season. It's not out of the realm of possibility. Apparently he was seriously considering doing that if he wasn't traded. I don't think Toronto is where he wanted to go.
but if raptors can get kawhi to at least show up and play like the top 5 player he is they ha e a good setup for 1 last run and then can break it up...
They ended up getting a nice return for him. DeRozan is a legitimate All-Star that should be even better playing for Pop, Poeltl is a nice young big that has shown some promise in limited minutes, and a first round pick for next year. Allows them to stay competitive now while also giving them tools to add to their future young core of Murray/Walker.
Yeah they lost Melo... but who did they sign to make their team better? You’re just replacing Melo’s shittiness with another less expensive one.
A folding chair would be a defensive improvement over Melo. A folding chair would probably be only slightly less efficient offensively than Melo. I wouldn't underestimate how much removing Melo from the team can improve them. Steven Adams certainly was no fan of Melo. They have Ferguson. Burton looked really good during the summer. They have enough stars. They have enough offense. They need PG to be more efficient and they need to play better defense.
RE: Considering everyone knew that the Spurs had to trade Kawhi Â
They ended up getting a nice return for him. DeRozan is a legitimate All-Star that should be even better playing for Pop, Poeltl is a nice young big that has shown some promise in limited minutes, and a first round pick for next year. Allows them to stay competitive now while also giving them tools to add to their future young core of Murray/Walker.
pick is prtoected 1-20 becomes a 2 seconds
RE: RE: Considering everyone knew that the Spurs had to trade Kawhi Â
They ended up getting a nice return for him. DeRozan is a legitimate All-Star that should be even better playing for Pop, Poeltl is a nice young big that has shown some promise in limited minutes, and a first round pick for next year. Allows them to stay competitive now while also giving them tools to add to their future young core of Murray/Walker.
pick is prtoected 1-20 becomes a 2 seconds
Unless Kawhi doesn't end up playing again this year for some reason, I don't see how the pick doesn't convey in 2019.
He’s going to miss two full seasons in his absolute physical prime? Would be insane and unprecedented. And I assume it would have some long term ramifications, I don’t know if you can just skip two years without losing something from your game.
Also my understanding is the Raptors wouldn’t have to pay him if he’s just sitting out, so he’s forgoing salary as well.
He’s going to miss two full seasons in his absolute physical prime? Would be insane and unprecedented. And I assume it would have some long term ramifications, I don’t know if you can just skip two years without losing something from your game.
Also my understanding is the Raptors wouldn’t have to pay him if he’s just sitting out, so he’s forgoing salary as well.
He’ll play.
Yeah, I think he'll probably play, but Kawhi is a strange bird from all we've seen.
RE: RE: RE: I heard yesterday that the Lakers aren't offering anything Â
of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
I think you seriously underestimate how good some of the Lakers young players are. Especially when you add Lebron to it. They won’t win a championship this season. But they’ll make the playoffs
I think they needed to learn a lesson from the Cavs last year and exercise extreme patience. This is a deal that could've waited until a week or two before camp opens. Perhaps the Lakers would've folded. Perhaps the Spurs were morons and placed trading Kawhi anywhere other than LA above the return they could get.
I like the trade for the Raps. Worse comes to worse, they got out from underneath a huge contract for a player who's not really elite. Poetl isn't special and the 2019 pick isn't going to be good and even if it is, the Spurs don't get it. Then there's a 2% chance Kawhi stays.
Yeah they lost Melo... but who did they sign to make their team better? You’re just replacing Melo’s shittiness with another less expensive one.
A folding chair would be a defensive improvement over Melo. A folding chair would probably be only slightly less efficient offensively than Melo. I wouldn't underestimate how much removing Melo from the team can improve them. Steven Adams certainly was no fan of Melo. They have Ferguson. Burton looked really good during the summer. They have enough stars. They have enough offense. They need PG to be more efficient and they need to play better defense.
I get that but those players have MASSIVE warts as well. Ferguson didn’t even look good in SL. At least when Melo was there teams accounted for him. When Roberson comes back... their offense actually becomes much worse.
One thing that everyone is forgetting about is that if Kawhi is back to normal kawhi and raptors get a strong sense that he will not resign then he will have good value at trade deadline. They can then trade him at trade deadline to Lakers for Expirings and a few players not named Ingram. So at the end of the day they rid themselves of derozans contract and could potentially end up with hart and Kuzma and a pick. I know derozan is an all star but I am not s huge fan. He is missing the it factor. Nice way to start a rebuild. Especially if clippers position themselves to make a run at Kawhi. Lakers will have to make the trade.
Yeah they lost Melo... but who did they sign to make their team better? You’re just replacing Melo’s shittiness with another less expensive one.
Probably but not for the reason you stated. Carmelo was abysmal, getting rid of him should make that entire team happy. Westbrook took the 3rd most attempts per game of his career last year, he’s shooting plenty and will be able to do that regardless of Carmelo Anthony.
Basically any player will be an upgrade for that team at this point.
will be able to get derozan to elevate his play in the postseason, especially on defense. and poeltl is a solid young centre who is going to thrive in that system.
as a raptors fan, not sure what to make of the deal - with LeBron out of the east and casey replaced, there seemed to be some potential with the existing roster to make a run. and leonard presents both an injury and holdout risk.
Yeah they lost Melo... but who did they sign to make their team better? You’re just replacing Melo’s shittiness with another less expensive one.
Probably but not for the reason you stated. Carmelo was abysmal, getting rid of him should make that entire team happy. Westbrook took the 3rd most attempts per game of his career last year, he’s shooting plenty and will be able to do that regardless of Carmelo Anthony.
Basically any player will be an upgrade for that team at this point.
His two highest totals was year 1 without KD and the 2d was when KD played 27 games.
George will get his shots, but I suspect Westbrook to get more shots and have the ball even more with the likes of abrines grant ferguson and Roberson getting more burn.
I don’t think they will either. But Toronto would probably flip KL for Ingram right today if it were offered. We’ll see. I’d rather see Ingram play with Lebron though
love playing this game, but hardaway, Mudiay, Dotson and protected 1st that turns into the 2 bobcats 2nd rounders after year 1, hardaway at $17 mil per year vs, derozan at $27 mil per year, plus Mudiay and Dotson and bobcats probable high second round picks vs. raptors potentially low 2nd round picks. Do you think spurs take thatover raptors deal?
as long as Kawhi shows up and is his normal self. Their group had gotten stale, many were calling for them to blow it up. Now they can take a run for a year with Kawhi and when he leaves, then they rebuild. Getting that first rounder protected is big. Plus they get out of Derozan's contract
@ChrisBHaynes
Kawhi Leonard has no desire to play in Toronto, league source tells ESPN.
I expect Ujiri will be fired if he made this trade without confirming Leonard's commitment to play here.
As a Knicks fan, I sure hope not. Given Dolan's obsession with Ujiri over the Melo trade negotiations (and later Bargnani) he might be the type of guy Dolan would clear house to get as President. That's the last thing the Knicks need.
RE: Wow great trade for Toronto’s even if for a rental Â
love playing this game, but hardaway, Mudiay, Dotson and protected 1st that turns into the 2 bobcats 2nd rounders after year 1, hardaway at $17 mil per year vs, derozan at $27 mil per year, plus Mudiay and Dotson and bobcats probable high second round picks vs. raptors potentially low 2nd round picks. Do you think spurs take thatover raptors deal?
By process of elimination, the best young player any of the other teams was putting on the table was Saric. I like him, but I don't think he'll ever be as good as Derozan is, and with 3 years on his deal at age 28 that's just about ideal. Would have liked to see them get another first back in the deal but given the contract status and health status, they at least got something. Aldridge and Derozan basically give them 2-3 years to find their next good wave of young guys.
For Toronto this is a good deal because they were in inertia. It either accelerates a rebuild/retool next year where they either resign him or have a realistic shot to get under the cap and start changing their roster.
RE: It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just Â
@ChrisBHaynes
Kawhi Leonard has no desire to play in Toronto, league source tells ESPN.
I expect Ujiri will be fired if he made this trade without confirming Leonard's commitment to play here.
Not really. They got rid of Derozan’s contract. Didn’t give up any young assets. And can still flip KL if he doesn’t want to be there. Keep in mind Casey didn’t even want Derozan on the floor during crucial parts of the playoffs
RE: It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just Â
highly doubt they trade anyone for a star player this year because they believe they can attract anyone, failed with george see what happens with kawhi
Do you think Spurs would have taken the following over the deal they just made with raptors:
Hardaway
Dotson
Mudiay
1st rounder protected, turns into 2 2nd rounders after 2019.
Reasons why - hardaway is $10 mil cheaper per year for next 3 seasons. If knicks protected pick does not play out the 2 2nd round picks would be the 2nd rounders from the bobcats in 2020 and 2021 which could be like late 1st rounders.
Basically is there a deal involving hardaway and other players( not including frank, Knox, Robinson and Zinger) and a pick that would have been better?
What about hardaway and unprotected 2019 for kawhi. Figure with kawhi knicks prob make east playoffs so the pick would not be as valauable. Even if he did not resign knicks would have cleared hardaway cap space for a mid round pick, which is not the end of the world.
still trying to compete and even though i am not a big derozan guy he is in another stratosphere then THJR. Dotson is a guy half of us wouldnt care if he was cut after that summer league and mudiay is nothing. So no i do not think the spurs even consider that. Now if they were looking to blow it up then if you make that pick unprotected and throw in another first or Frank then they might have considered it.
Why on earth would the Spurs want a useless pile of shit Â
as im not sure why they were so good last year. Also id say its much more likely that MINN misses the playoffs then SA or OKC. The west is so deep its crazy.
as im not sure why they were so good last year. Also id say its much more likely that MINN misses the playoffs then SA or OKC. The west is so deep its crazy.
Lillard and mccullom with nurkic isn’t bad. Good role players too.
Minnesota if they trade butler will take a massive step back. But towns, Butler, Wiggins, and Teague is better than what OKC has starting.
as im not sure why they were so good last year. Also id say its much more likely that MINN misses the playoffs then SA or OKC. The west is so deep its crazy.
Lillard and mccullom with nurkic isn’t bad. Good role players too.
Minnesota if they trade butler will take a massive step back. But towns, Butler, Wiggins, and Teague is better than what OKC has starting.
wiggins has been a disspointment...
and towns is very good but i said this when he was drafted, he doesnt seem to have thath alpha mentality, he wknt take over a game when needed
RE: RE: RE: I heard yesterday that the Lakers aren't offering anything Â
of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
Wanna bet they win 55 games?
Lack of development is attributed to one thing... Â
of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
yesterday & Chris Vernon, one of the hosts, was absolutely killing KAT. He was basically saying that he has no killer instinct. Kevin O'Connor, the other host, said it was coaching malpractice for Thibs to design so few plays for KAT in the playoffs.
Without injuries, they have as much chance to beat the Warriors as the Knicks do. Zero
I dont think they punted trying to get Kawhi, I think the Spurs were never going to trade him there. Popovich isn't letting a player dictate everything
Without injuries, they have as much chance to beat the Warriors as the Knicks do. Zero
I dont think they punted trying to get Kawhi, I think the Spurs were never going to trade him there. Popovich isn't letting a player dictate everything
it is like orioles with machado, unless they got everything they wanted they were not trading him to yankees.
if lakers offered kuzma and ingram and a pick they probably do it
They traded away their all-star player that is the main reason they were the #1 seed in the East. He helped them win more than anyone else on that team. They do this when Lebron James is finally gone and Cleveland has been the one who has knocked them out of the playoffs 3 straight years. They also gave up a young player who may develop and a possible 1st round pick for a guy that won't stay no matter what. He may not even play for them. So unless they trade Leonard now to like the Lakers or another team for young players this makes no sense. In fact with Lebron gone now this was their best chance to make the finals and they blew it up! You won't sign a better player for 27 mil a year that contract is a good deal. He was also super loyal and well loved there. This was a horrible deal for Toronto.
For Leonard? That would be a mistake for LA. Stick with Kuzma and Ingram.
I wouldn't trade Ingram for Leonard straight up. Ball and Kuzma sure, but not Leonard.
To clarify because there is no guarantee Leonard stays or is healthy not because he isn't worth the trade. He is way better than Ingram but that is to much to give up for the risk. Ingram made huge strides last year and should continue to be really good.
They traded away their all-star player that is the main reason they were the #1 seed in the East. He helped them win more than anyone else on that team. They do this when Lebron James is finally gone and Cleveland has been the one who has knocked them out of the playoffs 3 straight years. They also gave up a young player who may develop and a possible 1st round pick for a guy that won't stay no matter what. He may not even play for them. So unless they trade Leonard now to like the Lakers or another team for young players this makes no sense. In fact with Lebron gone now this was their best chance to make the finals and they blew it up! You won't sign a better player for 27 mil a year that contract is a good deal. He was also super loyal and well loved there. This was a horrible deal for Toronto.
Leonard is a significantly better player than DeRozan. If you think the main piece to the deal is competing in Lebron's absence to get to the finals than it's a no brainer. DeRozan is not a good defensive player and is especially a terrible man defender. Leonard is one of the best defensive players in the game. He's as good if not better on offense and can actually shoot from 3 unlike DeRozan. DeRozan is a good player but Kawhi is a great one.
RE: Lack of development is attributed to one thing... Â
16-5-4 are nice numbers and he maybe an all star one day. But you have guys averaging well over 20 that were snubbed. Chris Paul and Paul George didn’t make it last year. Blake griffin averaged 23/8/5.
Brandon Ingram doesn’t shoot and with lonzo/lebron controlling the ball... expect him not to get as good as he could be.
-Ingram made major strides last year, has a bright future
-Is not currently near all star status and near term progress may be hurt by LAL having such an abundance of ball handlers
I'm talking about the player. He's a tough matchup and he developed a lot last year. He still needs work but just a little improvement he's an all star type player. I think he'll get there. Just too much physical ability.
Ingram will be the #2 on the Lakers.
If they dump Ball, they'll win a lot of games. 2nd or 3rd seed.
They traded away their all-star player that is the main reason they were the #1 seed in the East. He helped them win more than anyone else on that team. They do this when Lebron James is finally gone and Cleveland has been the one who has knocked them out of the playoffs 3 straight years. They also gave up a young player who may develop and a possible 1st round pick for a guy that won't stay no matter what. He may not even play for them. So unless they trade Leonard now to like the Lakers or another team for young players this makes no sense. In fact with Lebron gone now this was their best chance to make the finals and they blew it up! You won't sign a better player for 27 mil a year that contract is a good deal. He was also super loyal and well loved there. This was a horrible deal for Toronto.
Leonard is a significantly better player than DeRozan. If you think the main piece to the deal is competing in Lebron's absence to get to the finals than it's a no brainer. DeRozan is not a good defensive player and is especially a terrible man defender. Leonard is one of the best defensive players in the game. He's as good if not better on offense and can actually shoot from 3 unlike DeRozan. DeRozan is a good player but Kawhi is a great one.
And if he doesn't play all season or for most of it? You just gave up 3 years of DeRozan your best player. He won't resign and now who are you signing next year. Who is itching to go to Toronto after they just dumped the one player that showed them love and stayed instead of leaving. Doesn't make sense at all.
their cap is basically cleaned after next year now, with derozon they went as far as they were going to go...
they decided to go fornit 1 more year, if kawhi leaves they can completely tear it down and rebuild...
with who? People aren't dying to head to Toronto.
it is called drafting them..
Why would you need to clear a bunch of cap room for draft picks? Plus they gave up a pick! And if you are relying on only draft picks you are going to be in trouble.
I really could see Kawhi saying, 'F*ck this. I'm not going to Toronto.' & sitting out the entire season. It's not out of the realm of possibility. Apparently he was seriously considering doing that if he wasn't traded. I don't think Toronto is where he wanted to go.
Kawhi has to go for it this year. He’ll basically miss two complete seasons otherwise
Without injuries, they have as much chance to beat the Warriors as the Knicks do. Zero
I dont think they punted trying to get Kawhi, I think the Spurs were never going to trade him there. Popovich isn't letting a player dictate everything
Popovich detests the Lakers and was never trading his star player there in a million years
but he could win me back if he sits out the year. There's turning heel and then there TURNING HEEL. If he did it atleast he'd be putting his money where his mouth is.
3rd best record in the West. For as much talent as there in the West... it’s pretty spread out. I don’t see the spurs, thunder, pelicans, wolves, or blazers really threatening the top 3.
4 years $50M. Sounds about right, market was not strong for him
surprised they gave him that much, they will have to pay irving or rozier next year...brown will be looking for an extension...
pauing a lot for a back up guard
There is a more than good chance Irving leaves Boston. Smart can be the PG on a championship team if he's the 5th option. If Irving stays -- a starting PG for 12 a year is moveable.
Normally I'd agree, but in this era of stars buddying up to join teams, an RFA is an asset. If he gets a massive offer let him go, but if Irving leaves and you go from stacked to thin at PG that's a major set back.
I guess part of it is probably just an “F you” to Kawhi. Don’t want to play for us? Fine, go to Canada. Although Toronto is a great city and that Raptors team would win a lot.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
That's a great idea until Kawhi pulls a Paul George (remember, EVERYONE thought he was going to the Lakers) or Jerry West convinces him to sign with the Clips.
Quote:
of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
I guess part of it is probably just an “F you” to Kawhi. Don’t want to play for us? Fine, go to Canada. Although Toronto is a great city and that Raptors team would win a lot.
San Antonio probably looks at themselves as being close to contending. They won 47 games last year without Kawhi, now add DeRozan to that team and is it outlandish to think he brings them to 55 or so wins?
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In comment 14015229 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
You make it sound like a fact? The Lakers are not that much worse than the Cavs, I would actually say they are a bit better and a bit deeper. They play in the West but they will make the playoffs. They are better than the Blazers, Wolves and Pelicans Imo.
This is def good news for the Lakers though, i mean i just cant see Kawhi staying in TOR long term. I still agree that the lakers are dropping the ball here, Lebron is not in his mid twenties, not sure how many years you want to waste.
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In comment 14015235 TommyWiseau said:
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In comment 14015229 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
You make it sound like a fact? The Lakers are not that much worse than the Cavs, I would actually say they are a bit better and a bit deeper. They play in the West but they will make the playoffs. They are better than the Blazers, Wolves and Pelicans Imo.
umm yeah it is a fact they will not win a championship...
Derozan also is a product of a system but I think organizations like the spurs always find a way to make the most of those players.
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In comment 14015229 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
GTFO. May not make playoffs lol. Maybe if lebron gets hurt.
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In comment 14015235 TommyWiseau said:
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In comment 14015229 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
GTFO. May not make playoffs lol. Maybe if lebron gets hurt.
ok they will make the playoffs but they are far from a contender and have zero chance at championship
As for this trade, I won’t call it a done deal until Kawhi shows up. His uncle has polluted his mind, so I would not rule out more lunacy - like Kawhi not taking the physical, not even setting foot in Canada, and threatening to sit out the entire season. That’s how whacked Team Kawhi is...
you mean like with paul george?
Yeah they lost Melo... but who did they sign to make their team better? You’re just replacing Melo’s shittiness with another less expensive one.
If LAL has assembled as poor a structured team as many of us think (no shot blockers, minimal shooting, overstocked with facilitators), then wasting a year of what is left of LBJs prime isn't wise.
good job by them to keep og
1. Warriors
2. Rockets
3. Lakers
4. Trailblazers
5. TWolves
6. Jazz
7. Nuggets
8. Pelicans
Yeah they lost Melo... but who did they sign to make their team better? You’re just replacing Melo’s shittiness with another less expensive one.
A folding chair would be a defensive improvement over Melo. A folding chair would probably be only slightly less efficient offensively than Melo. I wouldn't underestimate how much removing Melo from the team can improve them. Steven Adams certainly was no fan of Melo. They have Ferguson. Burton looked really good during the summer. They have enough stars. They have enough offense. They need PG to be more efficient and they need to play better defense.
pick is prtoected 1-20 becomes a 2 seconds
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They ended up getting a nice return for him. DeRozan is a legitimate All-Star that should be even better playing for Pop, Poeltl is a nice young big that has shown some promise in limited minutes, and a first round pick for next year. Allows them to stay competitive now while also giving them tools to add to their future young core of Murray/Walker.
pick is prtoected 1-20 becomes a 2 seconds
Unless Kawhi doesn't end up playing again this year for some reason, I don't see how the pick doesn't convey in 2019.
Also my understanding is the Raptors wouldn’t have to pay him if he’s just sitting out, so he’s forgoing salary as well.
He’ll play.
Also my understanding is the Raptors wouldn’t have to pay him if he’s just sitting out, so he’s forgoing salary as well.
He’ll play.
Yeah, I think he'll probably play, but Kawhi is a strange bird from all we've seen.
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In comment 14015229 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
I think you seriously underestimate how good some of the Lakers young players are. Especially when you add Lebron to it. They won’t win a championship this season. But they’ll make the playoffs
The West is insanely stacked, Toronto can def make some noise in the east if Kawhi mans up.
I like the trade for the Raps. Worse comes to worse, they got out from underneath a huge contract for a player who's not really elite. Poetl isn't special and the 2019 pick isn't going to be good and even if it is, the Spurs don't get it. Then there's a 2% chance Kawhi stays.
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Right now is Westbrook. More shots for him.
Yeah they lost Melo... but who did they sign to make their team better? You’re just replacing Melo’s shittiness with another less expensive one.
A folding chair would be a defensive improvement over Melo. A folding chair would probably be only slightly less efficient offensively than Melo. I wouldn't underestimate how much removing Melo from the team can improve them. Steven Adams certainly was no fan of Melo. They have Ferguson. Burton looked really good during the summer. They have enough stars. They have enough offense. They need PG to be more efficient and they need to play better defense.
I get that but those players have MASSIVE warts as well. Ferguson didn’t even look good in SL. At least when Melo was there teams accounted for him. When Roberson comes back... their offense actually becomes much worse.
Yeah they lost Melo... but who did they sign to make their team better? You’re just replacing Melo’s shittiness with another less expensive one.
Probably but not for the reason you stated. Carmelo was abysmal, getting rid of him should make that entire team happy. Westbrook took the 3rd most attempts per game of his career last year, he’s shooting plenty and will be able to do that regardless of Carmelo Anthony.
Basically any player will be an upgrade for that team at this point.
as a raptors fan, not sure what to make of the deal - with LeBron out of the east and casey replaced, there seemed to be some potential with the existing roster to make a run. and leonard presents both an injury and holdout risk.
Cs: Brown, Tatum, Hayward
76ers: Simmons (plays PG on O)
Raps: Leonard, Onunoby, Siakam
Nets: RHJ
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Right now is Westbrook. More shots for him.
Yeah they lost Melo... but who did they sign to make their team better? You’re just replacing Melo’s shittiness with another less expensive one.
Probably but not for the reason you stated. Carmelo was abysmal, getting rid of him should make that entire team happy. Westbrook took the 3rd most attempts per game of his career last year, he’s shooting plenty and will be able to do that regardless of Carmelo Anthony.
Basically any player will be an upgrade for that team at this point.
His two highest totals was year 1 without KD and the 2d was when KD played 27 games.
George will get his shots, but I suspect Westbrook to get more shots and have the ball even more with the likes of abrines grant ferguson and Roberson getting more burn.
I don’t think they will either. But Toronto would probably flip KL for Ingram right today if it were offered. We’ll see. I’d rather see Ingram play with Lebron though
Cs: Brown, Tatum, Hayward
76ers: Simmons (plays PG on O)
Raps: Leonard, Onunoby, Siakam
Nets: RHJ
got tk laugh at putting rhj, og and siakam in the same sentence as simmkns, brown, tatum and hayward lol...sorry that was funny
Kawhi Leonard has no desire to play in Toronto, league source tells ESPN.
Kawhi Leonard has no desire to play in Toronto, league source tells ESPN.
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@ChrisBHaynes
Kawhi Leonard has no desire to play in Toronto, league source tells ESPN.
I expect Ujiri will be fired if he made this trade without confirming Leonard's commitment to play here.
As a Knicks fan, I sure hope not. Given Dolan's obsession with Ujiri over the Melo trade negotiations (and later Bargnani) he might be the type of guy Dolan would clear house to get as President. That's the last thing the Knicks need.
Is this English?
i am not arguing that part, but you put them in with all star players like they belong there...
they are role players
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@ChrisBHaynes
Kawhi Leonard has no desire to play in Toronto, league source tells ESPN.
I expect Ujiri will be fired if he made this trade without confirming Leonard's commitment to play here.
Don't underestimate the desire to get below the tax threshold, too.
For Toronto this is a good deal because they were in inertia. It either accelerates a rebuild/retool next year where they either resign him or have a realistic shot to get under the cap and start changing their roster.
LBJ is running up against father time would be the only reason
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@ChrisBHaynes
Kawhi Leonard has no desire to play in Toronto, league source tells ESPN.
I expect Ujiri will be fired if he made this trade without confirming Leonard's commitment to play here.
Not really. They got rid of Derozan’s contract. Didn’t give up any young assets. And can still flip KL if he doesn’t want to be there. Keep in mind Casey didn’t even want Derozan on the floor during crucial parts of the playoffs
They just "cut" Julius Randle so they could sign Rondo, so it isn't a stretch to think they are in a win now mode.
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obviously are not perennial all stars like the others but outstanding defenders
i am not arguing that part, but you put them in with all star players like they belong there...
they are role players
I think that is clear. Needless post on your part.
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In comment 14015353 Pep22 said:
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obviously are not perennial all stars like the others but outstanding defenders
i am not arguing that part, but you put them in with all star players like they belong there...
they are role players
I think that is clear. Needless post on your part.
sorry didnt mean to come off has harsh but when you said knox will have to deal with these players i just laughed, sorry pep
Hardaway
Dotson
Mudiay
1st rounder protected, turns into 2 2nd rounders after 2019.
Reasons why - hardaway is $10 mil cheaper per year for next 3 seasons. If knicks protected pick does not play out the 2 2nd round picks would be the 2nd rounders from the bobcats in 2020 and 2021 which could be like late 1st rounders.
Basically is there a deal involving hardaway and other players( not including frank, Knox, Robinson and Zinger) and a pick that would have been better?
What about hardaway and unprotected 2019 for kawhi. Figure with kawhi knicks prob make east playoffs so the pick would not be as valauable. Even if he did not resign knicks would have cleared hardaway cap space for a mid round pick, which is not the end of the world.
1. Warriors
2. Rockets
3. Lakers
4. Trailblazers
5. TWolves
6. Jazz
7. Nuggets
8. Pelicans
Dep, I can see the Spurs missing the playoffs, but OKC? No way IMO.
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Both the spurs and thunder don’t make the playoffs this year.
1. Warriors
2. Rockets
3. Lakers
4. Trailblazers
5. TWolves
6. Jazz
7. Nuggets
8. Pelicans
Dep, I can see the Spurs missing the playoffs, but OKC? No way IMO.
They barely made it last year. With the lakers getting much better and and if the nuggets improving.... two teams have to be taken out.
82-0
Lillard and mccullom with nurkic isn’t bad. Good role players too.
Minnesota if they trade butler will take a massive step back. But towns, Butler, Wiggins, and Teague is better than what OKC has starting.
82-0
You and filthy are the only mvps on that team.
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as im not sure why they were so good last year. Also id say its much more likely that MINN misses the playoffs then SA or OKC. The west is so deep its crazy.
Lillard and mccullom with nurkic isn’t bad. Good role players too.
Minnesota if they trade butler will take a massive step back. But towns, Butler, Wiggins, and Teague is better than what OKC has starting.
wiggins has been a disspointment...
and towns is very good but i said this when he was drafted, he doesnt seem to have thath alpha mentality, he wknt take over a game when needed
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In comment 14015229 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
Wanna bet they win 55 games?
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In comment 14015235 TommyWiseau said:
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In comment 14015229 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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of real value. I'm shocked they're willing to punt a season of LeBron over Kuzma and/or Brandon Ingram.
It's the smart decision, why trade your young assets when you can just sign Kawhi in the offseason? Not like they won't be in the running for the Championship this season anyway. The Lakers won't beat GS but they will be in the playoffs
lakers have zero chance at a championship this year, they may not even make the playoffs
Wanna bet they win 55 games?
you think they are winning 55 games?
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No one's stopping them this year.
82-0
You and filthy are the only mvps on that team.
RIP Filthy :(
Without injuries, they have as much chance to beat the Warriors as the Knicks do. Zero
I dont think they punted trying to get Kawhi, I think the Spurs were never going to trade him there. Popovich isn't letting a player dictate everything
Without injuries, they have as much chance to beat the Warriors as the Knicks do. Zero
I dont think they punted trying to get Kawhi, I think the Spurs were never going to trade him there. Popovich isn't letting a player dictate everything
it is like orioles with machado, unless they got everything they wanted they were not trading him to yankees.
if lakers offered kuzma and ingram and a pick they probably do it
They need some shooting. Maybe the Ukraine kid or try to use Ball to get one.
Id bet on Ingram making another jump. With Kuzma, LeBron has plenty to work with. McGee will be a nice piece with LeBron.
that was my point
I wouldn't trade Ingram for Leonard straight up. Ball and Kuzma sure, but not Leonard.
if they keep irving, they are going to have a monster payroll soon..
12 million a year for a backup?
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For Leonard? That would be a mistake for LA. Stick with Kuzma and Ingram.
I wouldn't trade Ingram for Leonard straight up. Ball and Kuzma sure, but not Leonard.
To clarify because there is no guarantee Leonard stays or is healthy not because he isn't worth the trade. He is way better than Ingram but that is to much to give up for the risk. Ingram made huge strides last year and should continue to be really good.
Leonard is a significantly better player than DeRozan. If you think the main piece to the deal is competing in Lebron's absence to get to the finals than it's a no brainer. DeRozan is not a good defensive player and is especially a terrible man defender. Leonard is one of the best defensive players in the game. He's as good if not better on offense and can actually shoot from 3 unlike DeRozan. DeRozan is a good player but Kawhi is a great one.
They blamed the development on the previous coaches. When does it stop
lol clearly haven’t actually watched him play
He can get by anybody and finish. If he puts in the work he’ll be an all star. He’s already close.
He can get by anybody and finish. If he puts in the work he’ll be an all star. He’s already close.
Mook always comes with his Lakers hate. The Ingram comment was so damn idiotic it didn’t really deserve a response
What does that even mean? Ingram made big strides last season, he's a future all star
16-5-4 are nice numbers and he maybe an all star one day. But you have guys averaging well over 20 that were snubbed. Chris Paul and Paul George didn’t make it last year. Blake griffin averaged 23/8/5.
Brandon Ingram doesn’t shoot and with lonzo/lebron controlling the ball... expect him not to get as good as he could be.
-Is not currently near all star status and near term progress may be hurt by LAL having such an abundance of ball handlers
Great insight. Keep saying the same shit over and over again.
taking less 3s per game and maming the same amount doesnt mean he is progressing as a shooter, just meams he took less 3s last year
why would okc take on schroeder and that ckntract for him to bitch and moan coming off the bench and playing 20 minutes a night
That should be fun. Schroeder’s problem is he wants to shoot more than facilitate. Him and Westbrook might actually fight on the court
He made .9 Threes a game last year. Not a shooter.
Cause it’s only 1 more year. Schroeder is a cancer and has more years left.
they would buy him out and schroeder is a crazy person and they just drafted trae young
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on almost two attempts per game. The season before it was 29%. He's already progressing as a shooter.
He made .9 Threes a game last year. Not a shooter.
I liked this piece on Ingram. Probably articulates the case better than I could and saves me from pounding my head against a brick wall
He's 20 years old. He's hardly a finished product but he showed a ton of potential last season
Link - ( New Window )
Ingram will be the #2 on the Lakers.
If they dump Ball, they'll win a lot of games. 2nd or 3rd seed.
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They traded away their all-star player that is the main reason they were the #1 seed in the East. He helped them win more than anyone else on that team. They do this when Lebron James is finally gone and Cleveland has been the one who has knocked them out of the playoffs 3 straight years. They also gave up a young player who may develop and a possible 1st round pick for a guy that won't stay no matter what. He may not even play for them. So unless they trade Leonard now to like the Lakers or another team for young players this makes no sense. In fact with Lebron gone now this was their best chance to make the finals and they blew it up! You won't sign a better player for 27 mil a year that contract is a good deal. He was also super loyal and well loved there. This was a horrible deal for Toronto.
Leonard is a significantly better player than DeRozan. If you think the main piece to the deal is competing in Lebron's absence to get to the finals than it's a no brainer. DeRozan is not a good defensive player and is especially a terrible man defender. Leonard is one of the best defensive players in the game. He's as good if not better on offense and can actually shoot from 3 unlike DeRozan. DeRozan is a good player but Kawhi is a great one.
And if he doesn't play all season or for most of it? You just gave up 3 years of DeRozan your best player. He won't resign and now who are you signing next year. Who is itching to go to Toronto after they just dumped the one player that showed them love and stayed instead of leaving. Doesn't make sense at all.
they decided to go fornit 1 more year, if kawhi leaves they can completely tear it down and rebuild...
they decided to go fornit 1 more year, if kawhi leaves they can completely tear it down and rebuild...
with who? People aren't dying to head to Toronto.
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their cap is basically cleaned after next year now, with derozon they went as far as they were going to go...
they decided to go fornit 1 more year, if kawhi leaves they can completely tear it down and rebuild...
with who? People aren't dying to head to Toronto.
it is called drafting them..
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In comment 14015657 nygiants16 said:
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their cap is basically cleaned after next year now, with derozon they went as far as they were going to go...
they decided to go fornit 1 more year, if kawhi leaves they can completely tear it down and rebuild...
with who? People aren't dying to head to Toronto.
it is called drafting them..
Why would you need to clear a bunch of cap room for draft picks? Plus they gave up a pick! And if you are relying on only draft picks you are going to be in trouble.
Kawhi has to go for it this year. He’ll basically miss two complete seasons otherwise
Without injuries, they have as much chance to beat the Warriors as the Knicks do. Zero
I dont think they punted trying to get Kawhi, I think the Spurs were never going to trade him there. Popovich isn't letting a player dictate everything
Popovich detests the Lakers and was never trading his star player there in a million years
report that kawhi is talking to other free agents who want to team up...
Agreed on the Lakers, Pop was never doing that.
thank god knicks didnt draft him
Or Canada
So dress warm
The Jazz very possibly could though.
surprised they gave him that much, they will have to pay irving or rozier next year...brown will be looking for an extension...
pauing a lot for a back up guard
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4 years $50M. Sounds about right, market was not strong for him
surprised they gave him that much, they will have to pay irving or rozier next year...brown will be looking for an extension...
pauing a lot for a back up guard
There is a more than good chance Irving leaves Boston. Smart can be the PG on a championship team if he's the 5th option. If Irving stays -- a starting PG for 12 a year is moveable.
He’s going to get massively overpaid.
He’s going to get massively overpaid.
Normally I'd agree, but in this era of stars buddying up to join teams, an RFA is an asset. If he gets a massive offer let him go, but if Irving leaves and you go from stacked to thin at PG that's a major set back.