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Will OV ever live up to his contract?

OdellBeckhamJr : 7/19/2018 4:59 pm
He’s a good player, I like that he’s on the team but I can’t help but feel he’s massively overpaid and just a huge disappointment. I know he’s been hurt, but he was hurt in his final year in Miami and both seasons he’s played in NY. Hopefully the scheme switch will increase his production but I’m not overly optimistic.
He lived up to it in his first  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/19/2018 5:03 pm : link
season. Last season was a disappointment
Looking forward to Davis  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/19/2018 5:08 pm : link
In Bettcher D, hopefully he'll get Chandler Jones'd up. Scheme mismatch in Spags D playing out of position, not sure why we signed him.

Oh I know why, it's because we've been a chickensh*t outfit the last few years, that's why.
11-5 in 2016  
bluepepper : 7/19/2018 5:32 pm : link
with a crap offense. 2nd in points allowed. How do people think we did that? Our LB? JPP? He missed a bunch of games. Snacks, OV, Collins and Jenkins were the guys.
Wasn't he 2nd team all pro in 2016?  
NYG07 : 7/19/2018 5:41 pm : link
He is overpaid, but that comes with the territory of acquiring pass rushers in free agency. He will never put up huge sack totals, but he is an excellent 2 way player. I think he will do great as an OLB in a 3-4.
Most of the time, a new DC is stuck with players who don’t fit his  
Ivan15 : 7/19/2018 5:47 pm : link
Scheme for at least one season. The Giants brought the players in along with the scheme. The only subtraction was JPP and he didn’t fit and wasn’t the “old” JPP anyway.

I’m excited.
Sometimes stats are over rated  
George from PA : 7/19/2018 6:05 pm : link
As in sacks.

He has been one of the must disruptive players....he needs others to tighten noose...JPP has not helped
He was always going to be overpaid  
Dankbeerman : 7/19/2018 6:41 pm : link
can he be closer to earning his salary this year then JPP is to earning his? Thats what matters this year. We couldnt keep or dump both. Hopefully this was the correct choice.
RE: He lived up to it in his first  
Sec 103 : 7/19/2018 7:03 pm : link
In comment 14016388 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
season. Last season was a disappointment

this!!!
RE: RE: He lived up to it in his first  
Reb8thVA : 7/19/2018 7:12 pm : link
In comment 14016459 Sec 103 said:
Quote:
In comment 14016388 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


season. Last season was a disappointment


this!!!


The whole damn team was a disappointment last year. Why single him out?
RE: RE: RE: He lived up to it in his first  
GoBlue6599 : 7/19/2018 7:50 pm : link
In comment 14016462 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
In comment 14016459 Sec 103 said:


Quote:


In comment 14016388 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


season. Last season was a disappointment


this!!!



The whole damn team was a disappointment last year. Why single him out?

Because his huge cap number brings expectations
OV ....  
short lease : 7/19/2018 8:12 pm : link
great on salads.
I actually will be the key  
Jay in Toronto : 7/19/2018 9:15 pm : link
To whether the D improves dramatically
Unlikely  
Go Terps : 7/19/2018 9:44 pm : link
I wouldn't get too used to him being a Giant.
This is a huge year for him  
mittenedman : 7/20/2018 8:45 am : link
but you also wonder if he actually WANTS to have a huge year. (As crazy as that sounds.)

If he plays lights out, the Giants will keep him. If he doesn't, he'll get cut and is free to sign another contract while he's still young enough to cash in again. And as a guy who lived in Miami every year until he signed a contract here - does he really want to be in NJ?

It's an ugly business. I'd expect "just enough" from OV to keep his market value up. Hope I'm wrong. I've done a bit of a 180 on this guy because when he first got here, he looked like he could be another Strahan. Want to see that guy again.
He's going  
mittenedman : 7/20/2018 8:46 am : link
to be put in a position to make a lot of plays this year. (The Chandler Jones position in AZ's D.)

That said - Spags tried to put him in favorable positions too.
I really..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2018 8:49 am : link
think people misunderstand FA signings.

Vernon, Snacks and Jackrabbit were brought in to provide an instant upgrade on D and they did in 2016.

For all intents and purposes, they lived up to what the goal was when they were signed.

I really don't know why so many people are down on Vernon. You'd swear he's been a weak link from some of the commentary. He played one of the highest number of snaps in 2016 and played the first half of the season with a shattered hand.

He's been good vs. both the run and pass.

I half think people believe if he doesn't get double-digit sacks then he isn't doing well. It is madness.
Unless he turns  
Pete in MD : 7/20/2018 8:55 am : link
into Vonn Miller this year, he’s probably gone after the season. DG isn’t keeping that contract on the books at OV’s current production level.
He's a pressure generator  
JonC : 7/20/2018 9:10 am : link
not a sack artist, not a finisher in that regard.
His cap hit in 2019 and 2020  
Pete in MD : 7/20/2018 9:12 am : link
would be $19.5M. Dead money would be $8M in 2019 and $4M in 2020. Those numbers aren’t in OV’s favor.
Good Timing with this Article and this thread  
ZogZerg : 7/20/2018 9:52 am : link
By Patricia Traina..

Quote:

2018 outlook

Not only have the Giants added more depth to the defensive line/outside linebacker rotation which, if it plays out as hoped should reduce Vernon’s snaps to somewhere in the mid to high 70 percent range, a position switch to outside linebacker in defensive coordinator James Bettcher’s new system has many people drooling over his potential production.

While Vernon is not the same player as Chandler Jones, Vernon appears to have been asked to play that same type of role, one that he has happily embraced and one in which he’s not only looked comfortable performing, but one in which he seems to have taken to given the speed in which he’s flown around the field during the spring to make plays.

There is also optimism that Vernon could reach double-digit sacks, as Jones did in each of his two seasons with Bettcher as his defensive coordinator.

While sacks are the ultimate goal, the Giants would also probably be happy if Vernon’s total pressures (sacks, hits and hurries) lands him in the top-10 among his peers at his position as has been the case for Jones

Is Olivier Vernon poised to have a monster year? - ( New Window )
This is the make or break year  
gmen9892 : 7/20/2018 9:59 am : link
For OV, Giant-wise. He is an easy cut (some may say a favorable cut, due to money saved compared to actual production) and I love what he does, but you can spend that money elsewhere and get close to his level of production.

He needs to get to the QB and finish this year. I know the pressures/disruption has been there, but the big money is in sacks. Just like a power hitter in baseball, people get paid much more if their HR total is high, not because they have a ton of doubles and triples (which are equally important, if not a little less).

OV is used to playing in a 3-4, and will be asked to get after the passer a lot more. I think he has a big year, if healthy.
RE: He's a pressure generator  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/20/2018 10:18 am : link
In comment 14016646 JonC said:
Quote:
not a sack artist, not a finisher in that regard.

"I am presently incarcerated, imprisoned for a crime I did not even commit. "Attempted murder," now honestly, did they ever give anyone a Nobel prize for "attempted chemistry?""

-Sideshow Bob
The answer is no  
QB Snacks : 7/20/2018 11:15 am : link
Hes paid like an elite player but hes not an elite player
You guys think about the money way too much  
djm : 7/20/2018 11:31 am : link
It’s a factor, the cap is a factor, but a player doesn’t have to play like a HOFer despite being paid like one. He just has to play well.

Would it make you feel better if Vernon was making 5 million less per year? It would, but it wouldn’t make any much difference unless you’re convinced that the giants missed out on a huge difference making player with that five milllion in the coffers.

I hate these discussions.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/20/2018 11:33 am : link
He had his best season as a pro in 2016.

People talk about Vernon like he's been a complete bust of a signing.
When healthy  
KWALL2 : 7/20/2018 11:34 am : link
he's an excellent player. Hes much better than I expected especially vs the run.
RE: When healthy  
QB Snacks : 7/20/2018 11:39 am : link
In comment 14016824 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
he's an excellent player. Hes much better than I expected especially vs the run.


Hes a B- player
B-  
KWALL2 : 7/20/2018 11:50 am : link
I don't agree with that. Is that slightly above average?

When he's healthy he's a force. One of the best 4-3 DE in the league.
arc..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2018 12:01 pm : link
exactly. The money thing is so overblown.
One of the best all around DEs  
Big Blue '56 : 7/20/2018 12:10 pm : link
imv..And, he’s 27..Scrap heap signing
RE: B-  
QB Snacks : 7/20/2018 12:40 pm : link
In comment 14016849 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
I don't agree with that. Is that slightly above average?

When he's healthy he's a force. One of the best 4-3 DE in the league.


Based on what? Guy has 1 double digit sack season in his career. Nice player, legit starter, but you cant be one of the leagues best DE and be consistently notching 7-8 sack seasons.
I guess..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2018 12:56 pm : link
if you don't have a lot of sacks, you can't be a good player.

Geez.
Based on I don't  
KWALL2 : 7/20/2018 12:58 pm : link
consider the sack numbers as the measuring stick of a player.

He's elite at getting QB pressure. He's consistent here and very good vs the run. That doesn't add up to B- player.

In 2016..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2018 1:00 pm : link
Vernon was top 5 in getting pressures.

He's also very good against the run.
RE: RE: B-  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/20/2018 1:00 pm : link
In comment 14016892 QB Snacks said:
Quote:
In comment 14016849 KWALL2 said:


Quote:


I don't agree with that. Is that slightly above average?

When he's healthy he's a force. One of the best 4-3 DE in the league.



Based on what? Guy has 1 double digit sack season in his career. Nice player, legit starter, but you cant be one of the leagues best DE and be consistently notching 7-8 sack seasons.

Von Miller seems a bit overrated too, only one year with 15+ sacks. Someone who regularly gets 15+ sacks is an elite pass rusher in my book.
RE: I guess..  
QB Snacks : 7/20/2018 2:00 pm : link
In comment 14016900 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
if you don't have a lot of sacks, you can't be a good player.

Geez.


Typical fatman. Never said he wasnt a good player. I just said he's not a top DE. And he's not, by any measure.
RE: Based on I don't  
QB Snacks : 7/20/2018 2:01 pm : link
In comment 14016901 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
consider the sack numbers as the measuring stick of a player.

He's elite at getting QB pressure. He's consistent here and very good vs the run. That doesn't add up to B- player.


There is no way he's a top 10 DE. He's probably closer to 15. I guess it's semantics when using a grading system but he's not an elite player. He's above average I'd say.
If Vernon were a Cowboy everyone here would say he is overpaid  
Go Terps : 7/20/2018 4:01 pm : link
Because he is.

There's a pretty good chance he isn't a Giant this time next year, and that will be that.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/20/2018 4:06 pm : link
Who cares what people would say if he were a Cowboy?

I don't know why that's always a go-to argument.

"If Beckham were an Eagle, everyone would hate him..."

They're not Cowboys or Eagles - they're Giants. Let's live in reality here, not fantasy land. If grandma had balls, she'd be grandpa. She doesn't and she isn't.

If Vernon isn't a Giant next year, so be it. He's going to be one this year and we need him to be healthy. If he gives us a repeat of 2016, the contract is fine. We can cross the bridge on him next year when cutting him is more feasible. But the guy isn't even close to a bad player or one we need to get rid of ASAP.

A lot of players in this league could be considered overpaid. Not much of a revelation. Eli Manning is overpaid right now. It's pretty tough to have all value on your books in this league. You have to overpay for talent sometimes. It happens.
RE: RE: RE: B-  
Default : 7/20/2018 4:24 pm : link
In comment 14016904 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14016892 QB Snacks said:


Quote:


In comment 14016849 KWALL2 said:


Quote:


I don't agree with that. Is that slightly above average?

When he's healthy he's a force. One of the best 4-3 DE in the league.



Based on what? Guy has 1 double digit sack season in his career. Nice player, legit starter, but you cant be one of the leagues best DE and be consistently notching 7-8 sack seasons.


Von Miller seems a bit overrated too, only one year with 15+ sacks. Someone who regularly gets 15+ sacks is an elite pass rusher in my book.


Someone who regularly gets 15+ sacks isn't just elite, they are a likely HOFer.
It's the go to argument because it sifts fact from bullshit  
Go Terps : 7/20/2018 4:38 pm : link
.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/20/2018 4:40 pm : link
Keep telling yourself that gross hyperbole "sifts facts from bullshit"...

Speaking in hypotheticals and hyperbole are how people argue when their foundation sucks.
RE: .  
Go Terps : 7/20/2018 4:48 pm : link
In comment 14017108 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Keep telling yourself that gross hyperbole "sifts facts from bullshit"...

Speaking in hypotheticals and hyperbole are how people argue when their foundation sucks.


Except for two years I've been saying he's never been an elite player, and yet he's paid like one. Any other observation is a rationalization by fans that want to like him.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/20/2018 5:00 pm : link
Oh god. Yes, it was only you who thought that - everyone else on the planet said he was an elite player and was wrong.

I remember the consensus being more that he was a very good player who was just hitting his prime and that although it was a lot of money, it was a solid signing.

He was excellent in 2016. He was banged up and not so good last year - nor was pretty much anyone on the team.

Those aren't "rationalizations" - it's reality. And not for nothing, but for someone who so often criticizes everyone else of rationalizing, you sure as hell do your fair share of it.
Just seems like I am one of the few OV fans around here  
Jimmy Googs : 7/20/2018 6:04 pm : link
I think he has performed very nicely. God forbid, there was any type of consistent rush from the other side or middle.

Most highly prized FAs dont live up to their contract, it’s nearly impossible.

My biggest criticism is sometimes he doesn’t get that QB down or get the ball out more often when he does get hits. Tend to see too many escapes...
JPP was the disappointment not OV  
Torrag : 7/20/2018 10:04 pm : link
...
Good player,  
Doomster : 7/20/2018 10:11 pm : link
just not as good as his contract.....
NO  
xtian : 7/22/2018 5:27 pm : link
OV is a good player, at times, a very good player, but he got paid like he is a perennial all-pro. as a 4-3 DE, he was frequently man-handled by LTs in our division which happens to have outstanding ones--excepting the giants, probably the best in the NFL. this is mainly because of his lack of size--i think he better fits as an OL in the 3-4. i do like that he consistently gives great effort and seems to be a good influence in the locker room and a leader. i expect him to be a very solid good player bordering on being a pro-bowler.
gotta stop holding guys up to their contracts  
BlackburnBalledOut : 7/23/2018 7:48 pm : link
i realzie that sounds silly, but the fact of the matter is you overpay in free agency. you have to buy talent, that you failed to develop, at market value.

that being said i love vernon, he plays hard, plays the run well, id like to see some more sacks from him but he is a leader.

hopefully he makes a smooth transition to OLB
...  
christian : 7/23/2018 11:04 pm : link
OV wasn't the player in 17 he was in 16. In 2016 with a broken hand he was a force.

Not going to rehash the pressure vs. sacks argument, but he was beating his man more than any player in the league.

He needs to get back to that guy.
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