He’s a good player, I like that he’s on the team but I can’t help but feel he’s massively overpaid and just a huge disappointment. I know he’s been hurt, but he was hurt in his final year in Miami and both seasons he’s played in NY. Hopefully the scheme switch will increase his production but I’m not overly optimistic.
Oh I know why, it's because we've been a chickensh*t outfit the last few years, that's why.
I’m excited.
He has been one of the must disruptive players....he needs others to tighten noose...JPP has not helped
this!!!
Quote:
season. Last season was a disappointment
this!!!
The whole damn team was a disappointment last year. Why single him out?
Quote:
In comment 14016388 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
season. Last season was a disappointment
this!!!
The whole damn team was a disappointment last year. Why single him out?
Because his huge cap number brings expectations
If he plays lights out, the Giants will keep him. If he doesn't, he'll get cut and is free to sign another contract while he's still young enough to cash in again. And as a guy who lived in Miami every year until he signed a contract here - does he really want to be in NJ?
It's an ugly business. I'd expect "just enough" from OV to keep his market value up. Hope I'm wrong. I've done a bit of a 180 on this guy because when he first got here, he looked like he could be another Strahan. Want to see that guy again.
That said - Spags tried to put him in favorable positions too.
Vernon, Snacks and Jackrabbit were brought in to provide an instant upgrade on D and they did in 2016.
For all intents and purposes, they lived up to what the goal was when they were signed.
I really don't know why so many people are down on Vernon. You'd swear he's been a weak link from some of the commentary. He played one of the highest number of snaps in 2016 and played the first half of the season with a shattered hand.
He's been good vs. both the run and pass.
I half think people believe if he doesn't get double-digit sacks then he isn't doing well. It is madness.
2018 outlook
Not only have the Giants added more depth to the defensive line/outside linebacker rotation which, if it plays out as hoped should reduce Vernon’s snaps to somewhere in the mid to high 70 percent range, a position switch to outside linebacker in defensive coordinator James Bettcher’s new system has many people drooling over his potential production.
While Vernon is not the same player as Chandler Jones, Vernon appears to have been asked to play that same type of role, one that he has happily embraced and one in which he’s not only looked comfortable performing, but one in which he seems to have taken to given the speed in which he’s flown around the field during the spring to make plays.
There is also optimism that Vernon could reach double-digit sacks, as Jones did in each of his two seasons with Bettcher as his defensive coordinator.
While sacks are the ultimate goal, the Giants would also probably be happy if Vernon’s total pressures (sacks, hits and hurries) lands him in the top-10 among his peers at his position as has been the case for Jones
Is Olivier Vernon poised to have a monster year? - ( New Window )
He needs to get to the QB and finish this year. I know the pressures/disruption has been there, but the big money is in sacks. Just like a power hitter in baseball, people get paid much more if their HR total is high, not because they have a ton of doubles and triples (which are equally important, if not a little less).
OV is used to playing in a 3-4, and will be asked to get after the passer a lot more. I think he has a big year, if healthy.
"I am presently incarcerated, imprisoned for a crime I did not even commit. "Attempted murder," now honestly, did they ever give anyone a Nobel prize for "attempted chemistry?""
-Sideshow Bob
Would it make you feel better if Vernon was making 5 million less per year? It would, but it wouldn’t make any much difference unless you’re convinced that the giants missed out on a huge difference making player with that five milllion in the coffers.
I hate these discussions.
People talk about Vernon like he's been a complete bust of a signing.
Hes a B- player
When he's healthy he's a force. One of the best 4-3 DE in the league.
When he's healthy he's a force. One of the best 4-3 DE in the league.
Based on what? Guy has 1 double digit sack season in his career. Nice player, legit starter, but you cant be one of the leagues best DE and be consistently notching 7-8 sack seasons.
Geez.
He's elite at getting QB pressure. He's consistent here and very good vs the run. That doesn't add up to B- player.
He's also very good against the run.
Quote:
I don't agree with that. Is that slightly above average?
When he's healthy he's a force. One of the best 4-3 DE in the league.
Based on what? Guy has 1 double digit sack season in his career. Nice player, legit starter, but you cant be one of the leagues best DE and be consistently notching 7-8 sack seasons.
Von Miller seems a bit overrated too, only one year with 15+ sacks. Someone who regularly gets 15+ sacks is an elite pass rusher in my book.
Geez.
Typical fatman. Never said he wasnt a good player. I just said he's not a top DE. And he's not, by any measure.
He's elite at getting QB pressure. He's consistent here and very good vs the run. That doesn't add up to B- player.
There is no way he's a top 10 DE. He's probably closer to 15. I guess it's semantics when using a grading system but he's not an elite player. He's above average I'd say.
There's a pretty good chance he isn't a Giant this time next year, and that will be that.
I don't know why that's always a go-to argument.
"If Beckham were an Eagle, everyone would hate him..."
They're not Cowboys or Eagles - they're Giants. Let's live in reality here, not fantasy land. If grandma had balls, she'd be grandpa. She doesn't and she isn't.
If Vernon isn't a Giant next year, so be it. He's going to be one this year and we need him to be healthy. If he gives us a repeat of 2016, the contract is fine. We can cross the bridge on him next year when cutting him is more feasible. But the guy isn't even close to a bad player or one we need to get rid of ASAP.
A lot of players in this league could be considered overpaid. Not much of a revelation. Eli Manning is overpaid right now. It's pretty tough to have all value on your books in this league. You have to overpay for talent sometimes. It happens.
Quote:
In comment 14016849 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
I don't agree with that. Is that slightly above average?
When he's healthy he's a force. One of the best 4-3 DE in the league.
Based on what? Guy has 1 double digit sack season in his career. Nice player, legit starter, but you cant be one of the leagues best DE and be consistently notching 7-8 sack seasons.
Von Miller seems a bit overrated too, only one year with 15+ sacks. Someone who regularly gets 15+ sacks is an elite pass rusher in my book.
Someone who regularly gets 15+ sacks isn't just elite, they are a likely HOFer.
Speaking in hypotheticals and hyperbole are how people argue when their foundation sucks.
Speaking in hypotheticals and hyperbole are how people argue when their foundation sucks.
Except for two years I've been saying he's never been an elite player, and yet he's paid like one. Any other observation is a rationalization by fans that want to like him.
I remember the consensus being more that he was a very good player who was just hitting his prime and that although it was a lot of money, it was a solid signing.
He was excellent in 2016. He was banged up and not so good last year - nor was pretty much anyone on the team.
Those aren't "rationalizations" - it's reality. And not for nothing, but for someone who so often criticizes everyone else of rationalizing, you sure as hell do your fair share of it.
Most highly prized FAs dont live up to their contract, it’s nearly impossible.
My biggest criticism is sometimes he doesn’t get that QB down or get the ball out more often when he does get hits. Tend to see too many escapes...
that being said i love vernon, he plays hard, plays the run well, id like to see some more sacks from him but he is a leader.
hopefully he makes a smooth transition to OLB
Not going to rehash the pressure vs. sacks argument, but he was beating his man more than any player in the league.
He needs to get back to that guy.