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@Ken_Rosenthal
Familia owed just over $3M for rest of season. #Mets confirmed publicly today what already had been reported - that they are willing to include cash in a deal to secure a better return.
Cabrera and Bautista will go next. Too bad freaking Frazier is out or we might have been able to unload him. His salary is pretty minimal and a team might have needed a decent glove/bottom of the order hitter for the postseason run.
Cabrera and Bautista will go next. Too bad freaking Frazier is out or we might have been able to unload him. His salary is pretty minimal and a team might have needed a decent glove/bottom of the order hitter for the postseason run.
He's one of the only vets I wouldn't mind coming back next year.
If I knew Cespedes was going to be healthy but we have to get some impact bats in here next year since Cespedes cant be relied on and we wont have many spots to do it. Id prefer to open 3B up and clear additional salary. The more salary we can unload the better IMO.
@Ken_Rosenthal
1m1 minute ago
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Source confirms: #Athletics working to get Familia from #Mets. No deal in place. Other teams might still be in mix. Interest from As first reported by @susanslusser earlier today.
prospects, here are a few that sound like possible fits.
Jesus Luzardo. - their #1 guy is a lefty starter - Keith Law has him #34 overall in his midseason top 50. 20 years old putting up good numbers in AA, already had TJS.
AJ Puk - another top lefty starter with big stuff but he just got hit with TJS so he's out until mid next year. Law had him at #40 anyway, was preseason top 15.
Sean Murphy - apparently the 3rd best C prospect in baseball according to pipeline. Putting up solid numbers in AA, supposedly an athletic defender with a good arm. 23 years old.
James Kaprielian - Probably most realistic target, righty starter they got from the Yankees as part of the Sony Gray trade. Was an overslot first round pick in 2015. Then had TJS. Due to come back sometime this year. 24 years old.
@Buster_ESPN
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Mets have done extensive scouting of the Houston Astros farm system, so perhaps Familia is a fit for the Astros. Back end of the Houston bullpen an obvious area of concern.
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Buster Olney
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@Buster_ESPN
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Sources: Mets have an agreement on structure of a Familia trade, but not finalized.
The #Athletics had interest in Jeurys Familia, as @susanslusser reported. But apparently theyre not willing to take on as much money as another club in the bidding.
11:20 PM - 20 Jul 2018 from Barnstable Town, MA
The #Athletics had interest in Jeurys Familia, as @susanslusser reported. But apparently theyre not willing to take on as much money as another club in the bidding.
11:20 PM - 20 Jul 2018 from Barnstable Town, MA
Here we go again. Pay the entire thing if it means getting better prospects
The #Athletics had interest in Jeurys Familia, as @susanslusser reported. But apparently theyre not willing to take on as much money as another club in the bidding.
11:20 PM - 20 Jul 2018 from Barnstable Town, MA
I will be really annoyed if we take a much worse offer because it required us kicking in less money. It isnt like Familias contract is an albatross.
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The Mets trade of Jeurys Familia to Oakland might not be official until tomorrow -- and Wilmer Flores would remind you that a trade ain't done till it's done. But he's headed to A's barring snag
@martinonyc
5m5 minutes ago
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The Mets trade of Jeurys Familia to Oakland might not be official until tomorrow -- and Wilmer Flores would remind you that a trade ain't done till it's done. But he's headed to A's barring snag
The #Athletics had interest in Jeurys Familia, as @susanslusser reported. But apparently theyre not willing to take on as much money as another club in the bidding.
11:20 PM - 20 Jul 2018 from Barnstable Town, MA
I will be really annoyed if we take a much worse offer because it required us kicking in less money. It isnt like Familias contract is an albatross.
That could be deceiving. If two teams are offering roughly the same return in prospects of course you are going to trade with the team willing to take on a little extra salary on top of it. Mets already said they would eat salary for a better return.
Reno Matthews
@RenoOSB
Replying to @RenoOSB
Players of interest for Mets front office include Jorge Mateo, Franklin Barreto & Ramon Laureano. A's prefer to move someone less MLB ready like Lazaro Armenteros. From what I have heard Mets initially wanted Sean Murphy and was told he is untouchable as is Jesus Luzardo.
some reading material while we wait for names to leak out
Cespedes says that the cause of his medical issues is calcification in both heels. He says the only way to fix the issue is surgery. Hes considering it for the off-season, but the recovery time is apparently 8-10 months.
Expected that with Luzardo and no tears over no Murphy
He had .596 OPS last year in AA at age 22. He repeated AA this year and his numbers are decent but also relatively meaningless, which Mets should know better than anyone since they often have guys repeat years.
This guy's numbers are way worse than Plawecki's at the same age.
RE: some reading material while we wait for names to leak out
If it's around Murphy, hopefully there's at least a decent second piece.
Sheldon Neuse is also interesting at 3B, though he's having a terrible year at AAA. Oakland Athletics Top 20 prospects for 2018 - ( New Window )
Id be hesitant to look at something from March. A lot has likely changed since then. For instance Murphy's value has gone way up. Has BA released their mid-season top 10 like they did for the Mets the other day?
RE: RE: RE: WTF was that bullshit we read abou thte Mets
The #Athletics had interest in Jeurys Familia, as @susanslusser reported. But apparently theyre not willing to take on as much money as another club in the bidding.
11:20 PM - 20 Jul 2018 from Barnstable Town, MA
I will be really annoyed if we take a much worse offer because it required us kicking in less money. It isnt like Familias contract is an albatross.
That could be deceiving. If two teams are offering roughly the same return in prospects of course you are going to trade with the team willing to take on a little extra salary on top of it. Mets already said they would eat salary for a better return.
That is why I said a much worse offer. If it is comparable I have no issue saving some money
Cespedes says that the cause of his medical issues is calcification in both heels. He says the only way to fix the issue is surgery. Hes considering it for the off-season, but the recovery time is apparently 8-10 months.
lol. So hes playing now, why exactly? Get the surgery now. Not in the off-season. If thats the recovery time. Unreal
Jorge Mateo | IF/OF | AAA > Another player with game-changing speed, his effort has been questioned. He needs to focus more on getting on base to take advantage of that speed.
He had .596 OPS last year in AA at age 22. He repeated AA this year and his numbers are decent but also relatively meaningless, which Mets should know better than anyone since they often have guys repeat years.
This guy's numbers are way worse than Plawecki's at the same age.
I dont think your looking at his numbers right. He had a wRC+ of 130 in A+ ball. He did struggle over 200 atbats when he got promoted to AA but now he's right back up to a wRC+ of 130ish again at that level. It's normal for there to be an adjustment after being promoted. If his defense is good, 130 is more than enough.
RE: Here's a fangraphs updated from a few weeks ago
Jorge Mateo | IF/OF | AAA > Another player with game-changing speed, his effort has been questioned. He needs to focus more on getting on base to take advantage of that speed.
Oakland Athletics Top 10 Prospects Updated - ( New Window )
I take that to mean Oakland has given the Mets options for who they are willing to give up and the Mets haven't decided who they are picking yet. 3 gm's currently playing rock, paper, scissors to see who gets to make the selections.
Numbers for a guy repeating a year are always suspect. Especially at age 23.
Obviously, there is a huge dearth of catchers in MLB, so I can see why he has some value. But I hope he is not the return
I'd be happy with Murphy, but he doesn't seem particularly exciting. Seems like an overachiever and agree about the repeat success.
I'm glad Oakland seems to have a pretty good system. They got a great return from the Nats last year, so hopefully they can return the favor. Would love to grab that pitcher coming back from TJS and another player.
Numbers for a guy repeating a year are always suspect. Especially at age 23.
Obviously, there is a huge dearth of catchers in MLB, so I can see why he has some value. But I hope he is not the return
He didnt repeat a year though. He spent most of last year in A+. 200atbats in AA to finish the year last year isnt some massive sample where he shoukd have started AAA this year automatically. The fact that hes now hitting almost exactly 130 two years in a row at two different levels is likely far more telling. Either way I doubt we are getting him.
Cespedes says that the cause of his medical issues is calcification in both heels. He says the only way to fix the issue is surgery. Hes considering it for the off-season, but the recovery time is apparently 8-10 months.
lol. So hes playing now, why exactly? Get the surgery now. Not in the off-season. If thats the recovery time. Unreal
It really makes no sense to wait until the off-season. What is gained by waiting and then missing the first few months of next season?
1. He will likely miss a good junk of next year if he has the surgery.
2. So the real benefit would be in 2020, the last year of his contract. But what is the the guarantee that he is the same player after a 8-10 month recovery.
3. I'll take him missing 80 games each of the next two years if he hit like has this year even while missing time
Numbers for a guy repeating a year are always suspect. Especially at age 23.
Obviously, there is a huge dearth of catchers in MLB, so I can see why he has some value. But I hope he is not the return
He didnt repeat a year though. He spent most of last year in A+. 200atbats in AA to finish the year last year isnt some massive sample where he shoukd have started AAA this year automatically. The fact that hes now hitting almost exactly 130 two years in a row at two different levels is likely far more telling. Either way I doubt we are getting him.
You guys are arguing over a dude that might not even be in the trade
Numbers for a guy repeating a year are always suspect. Especially at age 23.
Obviously, there is a huge dearth of catchers in MLB, so I can see why he has some value. But I hope he is not the return
He didnt repeat a year though. He spent most of last year in A+. 200atbats in AA to finish the year last year isnt some massive sample where he shoukd have started AAA this year automatically. The fact that hes now hitting almost exactly 130 two years in a row at two different levels is likely far more telling. Either way I doubt we are getting him.
You guys are arguing over a dude that might not even be in the trade
1. He will likely miss a good junk of next year if he has the surgery.
2. So the real benefit would be in 2020, the last year of his contract. But what is the the guarantee that he is the same player after a 8-10 month recovery.
3. I'll take him missing 80 games each of the next two years if he hit like has this year even while missing time
Why not just get it now? They're not going anywhere this year and if he got it now he could possibly be ready by the end of spring/beginning of next season. Then he could get most if not all of next season healthy.
It doesn't make sense to me to miss a good portion of this year already, play with pain through the rest of a wasted year, and then either miss most of next year if he gets the surgery or play injured again if he doesn't get it. Just chalk this season up as a loss and get ready asap for next.
in Ben Cherington (former Red Sox GM) as a GM candidate for the Mets.
I think it could be a solid hire. The current Red Sox owe a lot of their success to him and he made a few savvy moves to dump bad contracts he inherited. He also signed a few big free agent busts, but overall, it seemed like he really went out of his way to load up on assets in Boston and it eventually paid dividends there after he left.
Lazaro Armenteros Was held out of his minor league game
Would seemingly be a good get. I'm still hoping that pitcher about to come back from TJS they got from the Yankees is 1 of the pieces. He's 24 and hasn't pitched in 2 years, but seems like a nice lotto ticket.
Lazaro Armenteros Was held out of his minor league game
Would seemingly be a good get. I'm still hoping that pitcher about to come back from TJS they got from the Yankees is 1 of the pieces. He's 24 and hasn't pitched in 2 years, but seems like a nice lotto ticket.
If I were you I would be very happy with Lazaro Armenteros or Kaprielian. Kaprielian will be on an innings limit next year though but he is a good gamble to take moving forward. They aren't going to get Puk or Luzardo for a rental.
Lazaro Armenteros Was held out of his minor league game
Would seemingly be a good get. I'm still hoping that pitcher about to come back from TJS they got from the Yankees is 1 of the pieces. He's 24 and hasn't pitched in 2 years, but seems like a nice lotto ticket.
If I were you I would be very happy with Lazaro Armenteros or Kaprielian. Kaprielian will be on an innings limit next year though but he is a good gamble to take moving forward. They aren't going to get Puk or Luzardo for a rental.
Cespedes says that the cause of his medical issues is calcification in both heels. He says the only way to fix the issue is surgery. Hes considering it for the off-season, but the recovery time is apparently 8-10 months.
lol. So hes playing now, why exactly? Get the surgery now. Not in the off-season. If thats the recovery time. Unreal
It really makes no sense to wait until the off-season. What is gained by waiting and then missing the first few months of next season?
Cespedes is a lost cause as a Met. He will have surgery and take 2 years to recover. Thank goodness we have Bautista this season and a recovered Bruce for next season.
Ruining the Mets 3 stooges gm chances of trying to sneak him off into a midnight trade deadline deal by spilling the beans lolz!
Cespedes and Wright will be off the books the same year right? Might as well sit him out and have idiot media write endless stories about his comeback atrempts too.
Jerry Crasnick
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@jcrasnick
Its down to the medical reviews in the Jeurys Familia #Mets #Athletics trade, according to sources. Once thats done, the deal should sail through.
Familia is not an all star but a pretty good closer and would probably be a very good set up man for a team that has a closer. From what Im reading here, the offer is one decent prospect who is a few years away from the big leagues. Is that right ? If yes, Im not happy with it. Im
some twitterers said yesterday it was multiple prospects
generally garner one good prospect (1-10 team range). Even when we gave up Fulmer for Cespedes, Fulmer wasnt close to our best prospect. He was more in the 5-10 range. I expect similar and if a second or third piece are added they are likely just upside wild cards.
that's true but the A's seem to have a pretty good system
the pitcher they got from the Yankees was on Keith Law's preseason top 100 and he's not even mentioned in the top 13 or 14 by the Fangraphs midseason update. Outside of their top 3 or 4 guys there seems to be a lot of mixed opinion on their next 10.
Mateo played 10 innings last night and the young OF'er got pulled so it seems like he's going to be the good piece. What the 2nd piece is who knows. I'd rather go with the upside so I'd roll the dice on the guy who hasn't pitched in 2 years, but good luck figuring out where he should rank when taking the injuries into account.
generally garner one good prospect (1-10 team range). Even when we gave up Fulmer for Cespedes, Fulmer wasnt close to our best prospect. He was more in the 5-10 range. I expect similar and if a second or third piece are added they are likely just upside wild cards.
Fulmer was absolutely one of our top 5 prospects.
also I think Beane is making a real smart move trading for Familia
generally garner one good prospect (1-10 team range). Even when we gave up Fulmer for Cespedes, Fulmer wasnt close to our best prospect. He was more in the 5-10 range. I expect similar and if a second or third piece are added they are likely just upside wild cards.
Fulmer was absolutely one of our top 5 prospects.
On what planet? You do realize mid 2015, Syndergaard, Matz, Conforto, Nimmo were all still prospects, yes?
has had this condition for 15 years and people are killing the Mets for that.
the Mets are his 4th organization. Yes, the Mets medical team seems like keystone cops, but they're hardly alone if Cespedes' condition was medically detectable and a big deal.
has had this condition for 15 years and people are killing the Mets for that.
the Mets are his 4th organization. Yes, the Mets medical team seems like keystone cops, but they're hardly alone if Cespedes' condition was medically detectable and a big deal.
But all those organizations got rid of him very quickly. I remember being surprised when Oakland traded him because he was their big foray into the international market. Red Sox had him for about two months. Detroit for about 4 months. Four teams in his first four years.
has had this condition for 15 years and people are killing the Mets for that.
the Mets are his 4th organization. Yes, the Mets medical team seems like keystone cops, but they're hardly alone if Cespedes' condition was medically detectable and a big deal.
But all those organizations got rid of him very quickly. I remember being surprised when Oakland traded him because he was their big foray into the international market. Red Sox had him for about two months. Detroit for about 4 months. Four teams in his first four years.
Agree, but he still had to pass a physical, my only point is if this condition was so detectable and debilitating one of the other three organizations should have or would have caught it too.
has had this condition for 15 years and people are killing the Mets for that.
the Mets are his 4th organization. Yes, the Mets medical team seems like keystone cops, but they're hardly alone if Cespedes' condition was medically detectable and a big deal.
But all those organizations got rid of him very quickly. I remember being surprised when Oakland traded him because he was their big foray into the international market. Red Sox had him for about two months. Detroit for about 4 months. Four teams in his first four years.
Agree, but he still had to pass a physical, my only point is if this condition was so detectable and debilitating one of the other three organizations should have or would have caught it too.
Yeah, I don't necessarily blame the Mets for not catching it. Probably hard to detect unless the player specifically complains about the heel, and I'm sure Cespedes was smart enough not to draw attention to it before he had his big contract.
It's just when you have the history with poor doctors/medical like the Mets, the team is going to get blamed when something like this pops. You are your reputation.
And then if you know about a degenerative condition that gets worse over time why even offer a 4 year deal???
Mets doing what they do best and getting rid of guys bc they are the most expensive and best and then signing guys who are second tier to contracts that are above the league market and hyping them as stars
RE: that's true but the A's seem to have a pretty good system
the pitcher they got from the Yankees was on Keith Law's preseason top 100 and he's not even mentioned in the top 13 or 14 by the Fangraphs midseason update. Outside of their top 3 or 4 guys there seems to be a lot of mixed opinion on their next 10.
Mateo played 10 innings last night and the young OF'er got pulled so it seems like he's going to be the good piece. What the 2nd piece is who knows. I'd rather go with the upside so I'd roll the dice on the guy who hasn't pitched in 2 years, but good luck figuring out where he should rank when taking the injuries into account.
They do have a deep system but Kaprielian had a setback in his TJS recovery and hasn't thrown a pitch in a game in two years.
Just a reminder, asked Ricco about improving Mets defense yesterday a no brainer and he gave a non-answer saying he is one of only 3
2:22 PM - 21 Jul 2018
Just a reminder, asked Ricco about improving Mets defense yesterday a no brainer and he gave a non-answer saying he is one of only 3
2:22 PM - 21 Jul 2018
Mets doing what they do best and getting rid of guys bc they are the most expensive and best and then signing guys who are second tier to contracts that are above the league market and hyping them as stars
Yup. Mets don't sign or resign the big free agents and then attempt to save face by acquiring a cheaper alternative.
Vince Coleman, Appier, Mo Vaughn, Jay Bruce, Todd Frazier . .. . the list goes on and on . . . the same failed approach again and again
So after they let Degrom go, what brilliant alternative will they sign?
Mets doing what they do best and getting rid of guys bc they are the most expensive and best and then signing guys who are second tier to contracts that are above the league market and hyping them as stars
Yup. Mets don't sign or resign the big free agents and then attempt to save face by acquiring a cheaper alternative.
Vince Coleman, Appier, Mo Vaughn, Jay Bruce, Todd Frazier . .. . the list goes on and on . . . the same failed approach again and again
So after they let Degrom go, what brilliant alternative will they sign?
Key to winning baseball is developing your homegrown talent, augmented by analytics. Not reliance on free agency.
Jane Lee (@JaneMLB)
7/21/18, 3:44 PM
Hearing the As and Mets have finalized a trade. As sending two prospects, plus international slot money, to Mets for Jeurys Familia.
Anthony DiComo (@AnthonyDiComo)
7/21/18, 3:49 PM
Will Toffey, a 23-year-old third baseman and Oakland's 17th-ranked prospect, is one of the two players the Mets are getting in return for Jeurys Familia.
Anthony DiComo (@AnthonyDiComo)
7/21/18, 3:53 PM
The other prospect the Mets are getting is Bobby Wahl, according to @Joelsherman1. He's a 26-year-old reliever who throws in the mid-90s, and had a cup of coffee in the big leagues last year.
has Oaklands 7th best prospect, so some are higher on him.
Looks like a nice player at an area of need for the organization.
Toffey was hyped coming out of Vandy, but isnt the toolsiest of players so the opinions likely vary widely depending on what you value. When I was looking at As farm system I just knew the Mets would overvalue him with his production in PCL
Joel Sherman (@Joelsherman1)
7/21/18, 3:57 PM
Heard the amount coming to NYM in international dollars is somewhat significant. Could see with Minaya back with big say #Mets pushing harder internationally
Jeesh. They really need to go outside for the next GM. Youre better off just letting him pitch up until the TD to showcase than to get that sorry ass return.
Depending on how much we got it could be huge. Shecky has mentioned numerous times that was big last year when we did this and we followed it up by making big signings this year.
Thompson is viewed as a borderline non-prospect and Toffey is 3 levels behind him as a 23 year old in A+. Yikes. This is the return they ignored the Red Sox call for? This is pathetic.
Depending on how much we got it could be huge. Shecky has mentioned numerous times that was big last year when we did this and we followed it up by making big signings this year.
How is that consistent with the Mets saying they want major league ready prospects?
this franchise is all over the map.
And I'm not so sure 2 top 30 IFA prospects is "making big signings"
Depending on how much we got it could be huge. Shecky has mentioned numerous times that was big last year when we did this and we followed it up by making big signings this year.
Depending on how much we got it could be huge. Shecky has mentioned numerous times that was big last year when we did this and we followed it up by making big signings this year.
How is that consistent with the Mets saying they want major league ready prospects?
this franchise is all over the map.
And I'm not so sure 2 top 30 IFA prospects is "making big signings"
They spent much more money on one player than they ever had before. I dont really know what you are getting at. The reliever has already been in the majors and is having a good year in AAA. The 3B is college bat. How are these guys far away? Further, why do you presume to know what was offered? We didnt see a lot of great returns last years deadline either for any team. And I think the 3 million for Familia is a joke. Just because we didnt eat it doesnt mean the return was messy. What ML team cant take on a measly 3 million bucks in 2018?? Teams are interesting in giving away better returns over 3 million.
One evaluator wonders if the Mets might consider shifting Will Toffey to catcher. A few have suggested he has tool set to do so. Right now hes a third baseman and is seen as a fringe major leaguer.
Depending on how much we got it could be huge. Shecky has mentioned numerous times that was big last year when we did this and we followed it up by making big signings this year.
Pure coincidence it got mentioned yesterday ;)
In comment 14016894 Shecky said:
Quote:
Is a BIG boy.
Best trade team made all last year was getting the extra IFA money and using it well.
John Ricco, in a statement: This trade hits three major areas. We got a major league ready reliever our scouts recommended, a position player who was a high selection from the 2017 draft and strong prospect in the As system as well as receiving international bonus pool money."
Omar Minaya, in a statement: "The Mets have been aggressive internationally the last two years. This extra bonus pool money will be extremely helpful in acquiring potential top flight talent."
Or maybe their scouts legitimately liked these players. This return seems better than any of the returns last year.
The money thing is a major stretch though. I seriously doubt ML teams give a crap about saving 3 million dollars. 150 million dollar payrolls are considered light these days. Also, people act like the Granderson and Walker deals never happened last year. Both deals, the Mets sent money the other way.
3B Rio Ruiz and RP Jacob Webb is a much better return. Ruiz is currently in AAA also.
Honest question Jay. Are the Braves giving up a better return over 3 million bucks? (Not saying they couldnt offer a better package overall.. exclusively talking about the ability to take on 3 mil)
RE: RE: I'm annoyed that the Braves didn't go after him for that price
3B Rio Ruiz and RP Jacob Webb is a much better return. Ruiz is currently in AAA also.
Honest question Jay. Are the Braves giving up a better return over 3 million bucks? (Not saying they couldnt offer a better package overall.. exclusively talking about the ability to take on 3 mil)
Atlanta, maybe not but Oakland is a small market team and they might but who really knows. All we can do is speculate. There was just a rumor that they didn't show serious interest because of his remaining salary.
I'm not sure how true that is though as Anthopoulos
If a team is in playoff contention they are going to make that up in increased ticket sales alone. Ridiculous to presume a team would have automatically given up better prospects over 3 mil. Teams arent in the business of being a charity for our farm system.
RE: RE: RE: I'm annoyed that the Braves didn't go after him for that price
3B Rio Ruiz and RP Jacob Webb is a much better return. Ruiz is currently in AAA also.
Honest question Jay. Are the Braves giving up a better return over 3 million bucks? (Not saying they couldnt offer a better package overall.. exclusively talking about the ability to take on 3 mil)
Atlanta, maybe not but Oakland is a small market team and they might but who really knows. All we can do is speculate. There was just a rumor that they didn't show serious interest because of his remaining salary.
Asdrubal Cabrera for Wes Parsons and international money?
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm annoyed that the Braves didn't go after him for that price
3B Rio Ruiz and RP Jacob Webb is a much better return. Ruiz is currently in AAA also.
Honest question Jay. Are the Braves giving up a better return over 3 million bucks? (Not saying they couldnt offer a better package overall.. exclusively talking about the ability to take on 3 mil)
Atlanta, maybe not but Oakland is a small market team and they might but who really knows. All we can do is speculate. There was just a rumor that they didn't show serious interest because of his remaining salary.
Asdrubal Cabrera for Wes Parsons and international money?
I would say yes as long as Cabrera is willing to play 3B.
Few quick thoughts on #Mets dealing Familia: NYM said would eat $ to get better prospects, but they ate none of $3M-ish left and 2 personnel men were not high on Toffey or Wahl and with so many teams looking for late-inning relief there was surprise that NYM didn't wait
@Joelsherman1
1m1 minute ago
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closer to deadline since this kind of return could have been gotten any time, why not see if teams bid up a package with deadline nearing? Perhaps #Mets had concerns about Familia's health or they did not get as much interest as anticipated and didn't want to risk more innings on
Joel Sherman
Verified account
@Joelsherman1
1m1 minute ago
Famiia's arm. They did like Toffey in draft last yr. He has patience and glove, question if power will come. Wahl has power stuff/elite AAA stats, but team that knew him best didn't call him up based on that, it traded for Familia. My gut is #Mets will say international $ were
Joel Sherman
Verified account
@Joelsherman1
1m1 minute ago
huge in newest plot to upgrade system. Either way there are a lot of issues/questions here and that no #Mets official involved in the trade spoke publicly is a horrific look for this club. Fans want more than a canned quote in a press release from an asst GM. If this is about
Joel Sherman
Verified account
@Joelsherman1
#Mets execs hiding because they were not on same page pre-game on Cespedes, just lump 1 shameful act on another. This is NY. This is the big leagues. If you can't get this right, you really shouldn't be trusted to trade deGrom or Syndergaard. NYM really must clean up this kind of
Joel Sherman
Verified account
@Joelsherman1
shoot themselves behavior. You trade 1 of best releivers in #Mets history and 1 or 2 best that will get moved in this market and don't address your fans thru reporters you are saying something about the competence and functionality of your group.
1. Toffey is only in his second year, so he does not have to be put on the 40 man roster. Draws a lot of walks, which is what Mets look for a la Nimmo. Speculation that Mets plan to convert him to catcher.
2. Wahl is a guy who can pitch in the bullpen for the next six years. Struggles with command but has dominant numbers at AAA. You hope he turns out to be the next Heath Bell but at worst he should be a back of the pen guy, who is solid.
3. International Money is invaluable because this where you can strike it rich because MLB has artificially constricted the market in terms of dollars spent.
So, after some initial disappointment, this was actually a solid trade in very diminished market. Not amazing. But not awful either.
When they ask you about Cespedes don't answer the question, just refer the matter to front office. So easy. Just keep repeating, "You have to talk to the front office about that."
1. Toffey is only in his second year, so he does not have to be put on the 40 man roster. Draws a lot of walks, which is what Mets look for a la Nimmo. Speculation that Mets plan to convert him to catcher.
2. Wahl is a guy who can pitch in the bullpen for the next six years. Struggles with command but has dominant numbers at AAA. You hope he turns out to be the next Heath Bell but at worst he should be a back of the pen guy, who is solid.
3. International Money is invaluable because this where you can strike it rich because MLB has artificially constricted the market in terms of dollars spent.
So, after some initial disappointment, this was actually a solid trade in very diminished market. Not amazing. But not awful either.
Which of the triumvirate are you because that is unadulterated hogwash. The fact is the Mets got less for Familia than Florida got for A.J. Ramos because they were concerned about offloading salary not building the farm system. If a Catcher was the target you make clear to Oakland that Murphy is required in any deal. There was enough interest that they didn't need to consent to trash now
shouldn't even be trusted to trade Cabrera or Plawecki (j/k Shecky). Holy shit. Sandy was in Oakland too for some reunion of the '88 team maybe, I wonder if he had anything to do with this even behind the scenes.
Carig and others (including Rosenthal) unloading on Mets
the only bright side is more backlash like this will at least hopefully keep pressure on to truly clean house in the offseason.
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@MarcCarig
31m31 minutes ago
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Mets trade away one of the best relievers in team history, the return is questionable, and not one of the three assistant GMs addresses it? That lack of accountability is the clearest sign yet that the Mets baseball ops is now being run by new GM Jeff Wilpon.
Marc Carig
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@MarcCarig
11m11 minutes ago
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This brazen lack of accountability tells me that the folks running the New York Mets think that you, the fans, are dumb enough to accept this nonsense. Its quite insulting.
shouldn't even be trusted to trade Cabrera or Plawecki (j/k Shecky). Holy shit. Sandy was in Oakland too for some reunion of the '88 team maybe, I wonder if he had anything to do with this even behind the scenes.
Yup. Should open some eyes in terms of more fairly grading Sandy's performance the past 8 years. Gone for 10 minutes and the organization is back to being a literal clown show. They had their moments when he was here but nothing like this. Wonder which reporter Omar will go after at the deadline press conference.
Anyone questioning why they wouldnt just hang on to Familia, make a QO, and get the pick? Im not fully up to snuff on the details of those rules, but the return they got seems piss poor.
What's the minimum return from the Yankees that you would find acceptable for Syndergaard?
Torres and Andujar
Ludicrous. Why would the Mets accept that when they have Oakland on speed dial and could get a couple of fringe prospects and some IFA cash? Im sure theyd rather that than make a deal with the Yankees
"If the New York Mets are just going to trade their most valuable major league assets for salary relief, rather than to try to improve the club, then it's time for MLB to step in and force the Wilpons to sell the team, just as the league did with Frank McCourt and the Dodgers. Trading Jeurys Familia for two fringe-at-best prospects is not how any team, regardless of payroll level, should operate in this environment. For a franchise that operates in the largest market in the league to do this -- and do so ten days before the trade deadline rather than waiting for someone to offer a legitimate return -- is embarrassing for the Mets and for Major League Baseball as a whole."
I dont particularly like Familia, and I dont think the yanks need to add to their bullpen...and I STILL wouldnt have hesitated to beat this package if I were the Yanks if for no other reason that to make it harder for the Astros/Sox to add bullpen help.
I have to imagine that the Astros, for one, could and would have beaten this package easily.
Sometimes it feels like some of the negative things that get said about the Mets are a little drastic / hyperbolic, but making this trade for this return 10 days before the deadline screams that there is actually something broken in the process.
Im not trying to salt any wounds here, Ill shut up if its coming across the wrong way. Im just a pretty big baseball fan and this is absurd and fascinating to me.
I think the media is just click baiting every possible negative Wilpon story to get the fan base all riled up. Yes, they are bad owners. But that doesn't mean every single decision is tainted by some sort of nonsensical decision making process. I never thought Familia was going to get a top return. He hasn't looked great this year at all, it's not a relievers market, it's a starters market, and if they are trying a new strategy of stocking their farm system through international signings, it's not a bad strategy and Minaya has used it effectively in the past. I believe he signed Familia, Flores, Lagares Montero, Robles each of whom have contributed at least something at the major league level. I don't know of any international player other than Rosario that has had an impact on the Mets during Sandy's era.
I think the media is just click baiting every possible negative Wilpon story to get the fan base all riled up. Yes, they are bad owners. But that doesn't mean every single decision is tainted by some sort of nonsensical decision making process. I never thought Familia was going to get a top return. He hasn't looked great this year at all, it's not a relievers market, it's a starters market, and if they are trying a new strategy of stocking their farm system through international signings, it's not a bad strategy and Minaya has used it effectively in the past. I believe he signed Familia, Flores, Lagares Montero, Robles each of whom have contributed at least something at the major league level. I don't know of any international player other than Rosario that has had an impact on the Mets during Sandy's era.
I agree with your point that IFA $ do have value, and more value than many fans will discuss.
But you can land a jumbo jet between a top return and this package.
The market is the market, and you cant make a team desperate for a Jeurys Familia if theyre not, but its incredibly hard to believe that 10 more days of pounding the pavement and playing the trade-deadline-seller game couldnt have extracted a decent bit more.
Ken Rosenthal or Joel Sherman quoted a Mets source saying they informed teams they were moving quickly because they didn't expect the market to change in 10 days. I really don't think Familia is that valuable. He isn't Andre Miller or Chapman. He isn't Familia 2015 or 2016 either.
Ken Rosenthal or Joel Sherman quoted a Mets source saying they informed teams they were moving quickly because they didn't expect the market to change in 10 days. I really don't think Familia is that valuable. He isn't Andre Miller or Chapman. He isn't Familia 2015 or 2016 either.
Thats just a ridiculous take, if true. What is the harm waiting 10 more days? How the hell do the Mets know the market wouldnt pick up? And how do they know that there wont be an injury or two around the league in the next two weeks, forcing teams to make a move that they otherwise wouldnt have?
I see no benefactor all to saying well, we are doing this immediately because nothing will change in the next 10 days. Nobody on the planet possibly knows that. So what was the rush?
Ken Rosenthal or Joel Sherman quoted a Mets source saying they informed teams they were moving quickly because they didn't expect the market to change in 10 days. I really don't think Familia is that valuable. He isn't Andre Miller or Chapman. He isn't Familia 2015 or 2016 either.
Thats just a ridiculous take, if true. What is the harm waiting 10 more days? How the hell do the Mets know the market wouldnt pick up? And how do they know that there wont be an injury or two around the league in the next two weeks, forcing teams to make a move that they otherwise wouldnt have?
I see no benefactor all to saying well, we are doing this immediately because nothing will change in the next 10 days. Nobody on the planet possibly knows that. So what was the rush?
that they had a similar situation last year and the offers never changed for addison reed who i consider a similar value as familia. They probably want to focus there energies more on cabrera and more imporantly wheeler who they can probably get significantly more for.
What is the harm waiting 10 more days? How the hell do the Mets know the market wouldnt pick up? And how do they know that there wont be an injury or two around the league in the next two weeks
Yes but that "injury or two around the league" could've included Familia. Perhaps they were more worried about his market value going down than up in the next ten days. Also possible they were worried that their current best offer would disappear if they waited too long (i.e, A's trade for a different reliever or A's lose five in a row and decide not to make any trade at all).
@adamgfisher
4h4 hours ago
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I was told that the market for Familia was pretty light. Obviously not taking back any money is a factor with regard to the return, but again, the market for rental players is not what it used to be and neither is Familia.
that they had a similar situation last year and the offers never changed for addison reed who i consider a similar value as familia. They probably want to focus there energies more on cabrera and more imporantly wheeler who they can probably get significantly more for.
that is ridiculous. Jeurys Familia is one of the best closers in baseball over the past 5 years and one of the best relievers available at this deadline.
Mets FO sucks.
As I said before, they'd have been better off keeping him, offering the QO, and when he declined getting a sandwich pick or whatever they're called.
the two players sound like at best AAAA players and the INTL money to get the next Kenny Hernandez will be 5 years away minimum.
that they had a similar situation last year and the offers never changed for addison reed who i consider a similar value as familia. They probably want to focus there energies more on cabrera and more imporantly wheeler who they can probably get significantly more for.
that is ridiculous. Jeurys Familia is one of the best closers in baseball over the past 5 years and one of the best relievers available at this deadline.
Mets FO sucks.
As I said before, they'd have been better off keeping him, offering the QO, and when he declined getting a sandwich pick or whatever they're called.
the two players sound like at best AAAA players and the INTL money to get the next Kenny Hernandez will be 5 years away minimum.
This is one of those times I have to respectfully disagree with you. QO are now dangerous because more free agents will accept the qualifying offer and then you are stuck with a high priced player for one year. Remember Neil Walker.
that they had a similar situation last year and the offers never changed for addison reed who i consider a similar value as familia. They probably want to focus there energies more on cabrera and more imporantly wheeler who they can probably get significantly more for.
that is ridiculous. Jeurys Familia is one of the best closers in baseball over the past 5 years and one of the best relievers available at this deadline.
Mets FO sucks.
As I said before, they'd have been better off keeping him, offering the QO, and when he declined getting a sandwich pick or whatever they're called.
the two players sound like at best AAAA players and the INTL money to get the next Kenny Hernandez will be 5 years away minimum.
This is one of those times I have to respectfully disagree with you. QO are now dangerous because more free agents will accept the qualifying offer and then you are stuck with a high priced player for one year. Remember Neil Walker.
So what if he accepts? Worst case is Familia is your closer next year for $17.5M or whatever it is, for 1 year. Tradeable again next deadline, when maybe there is a real GM.
It's seems low risk to me in the case of Familia, assuming he finishes the season healthy.
$17.5 million on someone like Machado. We spent, between Familia, Ramos, Blevins, Swarzak almost $30 million on absolutely nothing. The Mets are taking the right approach loading up on bullpen arms. We already have 2 in lugo/gsellman that are decent. I would try to nab some lefty arms now. Between Bashlor, Callahan, Bautista, Sewald, Hanhold, Nogosek, Beck, Wahl, D.Smith, T.Peterson, and Rhame, someone has to emerge.
none of those bullpen arms projects to be as good as Familia and Gsellman and Lugo were starters
Familia would have made over $10M if he were arbitration eligible (vs a FA), I wouldn't sweat over $8M or so difference and if that ($8M) is what prevents the Mets from pursuing Machado (a pipe dream) then they have bigger problems.
said there was no market for Familia. I agree Familia has been great since around 2014. But he was not great this year and that's all that matters. I don't care what his numbers say, I don't trust him this year. His stuff is down a tad, I don't know why he no longer throws his splitter, and he has blown at least 4-5 saves. Anyway, I don't think it's worth arguing over. It's over and done with.
that they had a similar situation last year and the offers never changed for addison reed who i consider a similar value as familia. They probably want to focus there energies more on cabrera and more imporantly wheeler who they can probably get significantly more for.
that is ridiculous. Jeurys Familia is one of the best closers in baseball over the past 5 years and one of the best relievers available at this deadline.
Mets FO sucks.
As I said before, they'd have been better off keeping him, offering the QO, and when he declined getting a sandwich pick or whatever they're called.
the two players sound like at best AAAA players and the INTL money to get the next Kenny Hernandez will be 5 years away minimum.
3m reasons why I agree with this post and the Mets org doesnt.
I'm sorry, but I trust other guys more than Adam Fisher
Ken Rosenthal
Verified account @Ken_Rosenthal
3h3 hours ago
At least one rival exec who was interested in Familia is upset the #Mets jumped on #Athletics offer 10 days before deadline without getting back to his club first. Another also found it curious NYM jumped so soon, saying, The intl money must have been real important to them.
@Ken_Rosenthal
3h3 hours ago
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However, another exec who wanted Familia says, Teams had plenty of time to jump in. Im sure after they agreed they told teams they couldnt get back in but no way a week ago did they say that. Per source, NYM told teams they were moving. Didnt feel waiting would help return.
Does anyone here value Jhoan Urena, Cecchini or David Thompson? Because all 3 have shown more at higher levels than the 3B they got and are similar in age.
How about Bautista or Jacob Rhame? Because it's the same story.
If we were trying to trade for someone, what kind of player would we estimate we'd get back for that assortment of crap?
As PJ said - we would gladly trade all of those players for an extra sandwich pick in an upcoming draft - which would be the worst case scenario in hanging on to Familia. That or having one of the best relievers in the game (currently 17th in fwar among all relievers) on the roster again next year at a reasonable price.
Maybe there's a grand plan to get enough bonus $ to sign this guy Victor Victor. But I'll believe this organization can pull something like that off when I see it. Anyone still giving them the benefit of the doubt on anything is really just asking to get kicked in the nuts.
1. Toffey is only in his second year, so he does not have to be put on the 40 man roster. Draws a lot of walks, which is what Mets look for a la Nimmo. Speculation that Mets plan to convert him to catcher.
2. Wahl is a guy who can pitch in the bullpen for the next six years. Struggles with command but has dominant numbers at AAA. You hope he turns out to be the next Heath Bell but at worst he should be a back of the pen guy, who is solid.
3. International Money is invaluable because this where you can strike it rich because MLB has artificially constricted the market in terms of dollars spent.
So, after some initial disappointment, this was actually a solid trade in very diminished market. Not amazing. But not awful either.
Which of the triumvirate are you because that is unadulterated hogwash. The fact is the Mets got less for Familia than Florida got for A.J. Ramos because they were concerned about offloading salary not building the farm system. If a Catcher was the target you make clear to Oakland that Murphy is required in any deal. There was enough interest that they didn't need to consent to trash now
Dude, I have been the biggest critic of Sandy "lol" Alderson and the Mets FO on here for YEARS.
When you and many others were part of the Sandy Fan Club. I called the Ramos trade ludicrous and awful AT THE TIME.
So, you can bash me for many things, but being overly supportive of Mets management is not one of them. I don't think this trade is awful because the market for rentals is diminished and I don't think Familia is valued as highly around the league as he is by Mets fans. Is it a very good trade? No. But it is about what you should expect with what the market has been. Plus, as with most trades, you have to see how it works out. Voicing some definitive opinion when a trade is made is foolish.
1. Toffey is only in his second year, so he does not have to be put on the 40 man roster. Draws a lot of walks, which is what Mets look for a la Nimmo. Speculation that Mets plan to convert him to catcher.
2. Wahl is a guy who can pitch in the bullpen for the next six years. Struggles with command but has dominant numbers at AAA. You hope he turns out to be the next Heath Bell but at worst he should be a back of the pen guy, who is solid.
3. International Money is invaluable because this where you can strike it rich because MLB has artificially constricted the market in terms of dollars spent.
So, after some initial disappointment, this was actually a solid trade in very diminished market. Not amazing. But not awful either.
Which of the triumvirate are you because that is unadulterated hogwash. The fact is the Mets got less for Familia than Florida got for A.J. Ramos because they were concerned about offloading salary not building the farm system. If a Catcher was the target you make clear to Oakland that Murphy is required in any deal. There was enough interest that they didn't need to consent to trash now
Dude, I have been the biggest critic of Sandy "lol" Alderson and the Mets FO on here for YEARS.
When you and many others were part of the Sandy Fan Club. I called the Ramos trade ludicrous and awful AT THE TIME.
So, you can bash me for many things, but being overly supportive of Mets management is not one of them. I don't think this trade is awful because the market for rentals is diminished and I don't think Familia is valued as highly around the league as he is by Mets fans. Is it a very good trade? No. But it is about what you should expect with what the market has been. Plus, as with most trades, you have to see how it works out. Voicing some definitive opinion when a trade is made is foolish.
If the market for rentals was so diminished, why did Baltimore end up with multiple prospects better than the best player we got? If the Cuban was also in the deal I could live with it, but this just reaks of trading to save money rather than acquire talent.
If the market for rentals was so diminished, why did Baltimore end up with multiple prospects better than the best player we got? If the Cuban was also in the deal I could live with it, but this just reaks of trading to save money rather than acquire talent.
Because Baltimore traded away one of the league's best hitters who plays a premium position.
Familia has a ridiculously better track record and longer period of being a consistently good reliever.
Hand has two years left on his contract, but the returns, even while I thought Hand's return was a little light, are still incongruous.
I think you answered your own point by mentioning how much time each player has left on their contracts. I agree that the return is a little light, but considering Familia is a 2 1/2 month rental, it's not terrible.
Familia has a ridiculously better track record and longer period of being a consistently good reliever.
Hand has two years left on his contract, but the returns, even while I thought Hand's return was a little light, are still incongruous.
I think you answered your own point by mentioning how much time each player has left on their contracts. I agree that the return is a little light, but considering Familia is a 2 1/2 month rental, it's not terrible.
it wasn't a question, it was a statement.
Even with 2 years left on his contract, Hand is not in the same class of reliever and has nowhere near the track record that Familia does.
the Marlins DFA'd Hand. He was picked up off waivers by SD.
Even with the contract disparity, I think the return for Familia was incongruous with the return for Hand.
in baseball over the past 3 seasons. The discrepancy in his years of control is big, but the return he brought back is light years. Mejia is higher ranked prospect right now than Frazier or Torres were when they were traded.
$15M left owed to Hand after this season isn't necessarily something I'd view as some huge positive.
I never said that it was, I was just pointing out that he has 3 years of control. If he is pitching well over the next 2 1/2 years then that $10 million dollar option is a no brainer. With that said due to the volatility of relievers the chances of him sustaining this level of play is not very good.
RE: Forget Hand - he brought back a unanimous top 30 prospect
in baseball over the past 3 seasons. The discrepancy in his years of control is big, but the return he brought back is light years. Mejia is higher ranked prospect right now than Frazier or Torres were when they were traded.
that's my point, even with the term difference left in contract the return is incongruous with the return for Familia.
Forget MLB top prospects, these guys were not even in the A's top 30 prospects, they were organizational fodder. possibly not in the A's top 50 prospects.
And it's not like the A's had a top 10 farm system.
Mets got fleeced, no other way around it.
RE: RE: Forget Hand - he brought back a unanimous top 30 prospect
in baseball over the past 3 seasons. The discrepancy in his years of control is big, but the return he brought back is light years. Mejia is higher ranked prospect right now than Frazier or Torres were when they were traded.
that's my point, even with the term difference left in contract the return is incongruous with the return for Familia.
Forget MLB top prospects, these guys were not even in the A's top 30 prospects, they were organizational fodder. possibly not in the A's top 50 prospects.
And it's not like the A's had a top 10 farm system.
Mets got fleeced, no other way around it.
Yup. The only hope is that the fallout is strong enough it pushes the wilponzis to bring in a real GM in the offseason. But I'll believe that when I see it.
I dont disagree with the conclusion that the Mets did badly here, but youre under-valuing the Hand contract a decent bit.
If you include the club option, three years remaining for a total of $24M for one of the 3-4 best LH RPs in the game, with closer experience, is a tremendous asset.
At 28 years old, if Hand were hitting the free agent market right now, I suspect hed get somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 years, $65M.
I dont disagree with the conclusion that the Mets did badly here, but youre under-valuing the Hand contract a decent bit.
If you include the club option, three years remaining for a total of $24M for one of the 3-4 best LH RPs in the game, with closer experience, is a tremendous asset.
At 28 years old, if Hand were hitting the free agent market right now, I suspect hed get somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 years, $65M.
Fair point, Hand has re-invented himself with his slider, but two years ago Hand was DFA'd. And no trade was worked out. he was claimed off waivers by SD - for nothing.
My view of relievers is that they're fungible to an extent, except for the truly elite.
I'd be willing to bet that Familia vs Hand (even with the money each gets - so factor in a new contract for Familia) Familia proves to be the better pitcher the next 5 years.
But Familia is probably looking at 4 years $60M or something in that realm, further highlighting the bargain on Hand.
(Also further highlighting that keeping Familia and making the QO would have been a better option than trading 10 days before the deadline for a bad return...we are most definitely on the same page there).
But Familia is probably looking at 4 years $60M or something in that realm, further highlighting the bargain on Hand.
(Also further highlighting that keeping Familia and making the QO would have been a better option than trading 10 days before the deadline for a bad return...we are most definitely on the same page there).
all fair. And if you accept that discrepancy the return IMO for Hand is STILL incongruous with the return for Familia.
Hand netted the Indians #1 prospect, and a top 5 - top 20 (depending on your source) overall MLB prospect.
Familia got zero top 30 prospects from the A's - let alone MLB top prospects and $1M of INTL pool money (for the record the 30th rated prospect this signing period got $1M - lower rated prospects may also have gotten that much).
I feel like Familia should have netted a better return, or if this was the best offer the Mets should have passed and offered the QO.
But not hearing As
But not hearing As
Giants? Between Posey and Bart I'd imagine they are willing to deal the other C they have that's ranked fairly high.
@Ken_Rosenthal
Familia owed just over $3M for rest of season. #Mets confirmed publicly today what already had been reported - that they are willing to include cash in a deal to secure a better return.
But not hearing As
Can you give a hint at who you may be hearing?
He's one of the only vets I wouldn't mind coming back next year.
coincidence?
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@Ken_Rosenthal
1m1 minute ago
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Source confirms: #Athletics working to get Familia from #Mets. No deal in place. Other teams might still be in mix. Interest from As first reported by @susanslusser earlier today.
1 reply 33 retweets 30 likes
But not hearing As
As have better prospects like Luzardo than San Francisco
good point, I assumed maybe McNeil was in the trade. But Cabrera makes more sense.
Jesus Luzardo. - their #1 guy is a lefty starter - Keith Law has him #34 overall in his midseason top 50. 20 years old putting up good numbers in AA, already had TJS.
AJ Puk - another top lefty starter with big stuff but he just got hit with TJS so he's out until mid next year. Law had him at #40 anyway, was preseason top 15.
Sean Murphy - apparently the 3rd best C prospect in baseball according to pipeline. Putting up solid numbers in AA, supposedly an athletic defender with a good arm. 23 years old.
James Kaprielian - Probably most realistic target, righty starter they got from the Yankees as part of the Sony Gray trade. Was an overslot first round pick in 2015. Then had TJS. Due to come back sometime this year. 24 years old.
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@Buster_ESPN
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Mets have done extensive scouting of the Houston Astros farm system, so perhaps Familia is a fit for the Astros. Back end of the Houston bullpen an obvious area of concern.
4 replies 28 retweets 40 likes
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Buster Olney
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3m3 minutes ago
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Sources: Mets have an agreement on structure of a Familia trade, but not finalized.
Maybe more teams are getting involved!
Jerry Crasnick
Verified account @jcrasnick
The #Athletics had interest in Jeurys Familia, as @susanslusser reported. But apparently theyre not willing to take on as much money as another club in the bidding.
11:20 PM - 20 Jul 2018 from Barnstable Town, MA
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@Buster_ESPN
2m2 minutes ago
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Cross the Astros off the list of possible landing spots for Familia. Also: Cubs, Red Sox, Braves.
Quote:
Jerry Crasnick
Verified account @jcrasnick
The #Athletics had interest in Jeurys Familia, as @susanslusser reported. But apparently theyre not willing to take on as much money as another club in the bidding.
11:20 PM - 20 Jul 2018 from Barnstable Town, MA
Here we go again. Pay the entire thing if it means getting better prospects
Quote:
Jerry Crasnick
Verified account @jcrasnick
The #Athletics had interest in Jeurys Familia, as @susanslusser reported. But apparently theyre not willing to take on as much money as another club in the bidding.
11:20 PM - 20 Jul 2018 from Barnstable Town, MA
I will be really annoyed if we take a much worse offer because it required us kicking in less money. It isnt like Familias contract is an albatross.
Hunter Strickland is not a closer. But with Moronto, Smith and Watson pitching lights out that pen could be really strong with Familia as closer.
Throw in Cabrera because Panik is injured and been awful
The Mets trade of Jeurys Familia to Oakland might not be official until tomorrow -- and Wilmer Flores would remind you that a trade ain't done till it's done. But he's headed to A's barring snag
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@martinonyc
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The Mets trade of Jeurys Familia to Oakland might not be official until tomorrow -- and Wilmer Flores would remind you that a trade ain't done till it's done. But he's headed to A's barring snag
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being willing to take on salary?
Quote:
Jerry Crasnick
Verified account @jcrasnick
The #Athletics had interest in Jeurys Familia, as @susanslusser reported. But apparently theyre not willing to take on as much money as another club in the bidding.
11:20 PM - 20 Jul 2018 from Barnstable Town, MA
I will be really annoyed if we take a much worse offer because it required us kicking in less money. It isnt like Familias contract is an albatross.
That could be deceiving. If two teams are offering roughly the same return in prospects of course you are going to trade with the team willing to take on a little extra salary on top of it. Mets already said they would eat salary for a better return.
@RenoOSB
Replying to @RenoOSB
Players of interest for Mets front office include Jorge Mateo, Franklin Barreto & Ramon Laureano. A's prefer to move someone less MLB ready like Lazaro Armenteros. From what I have heard Mets initially wanted Sean Murphy and was told he is untouchable as is Jesus Luzardo.
Puk and Kaprielian are both interesting.
If it's around Murphy, hopefully there's at least a decent second piece.
Sheldon Neuse is also interesting at 3B, though he's having a terrible year at AAA.
Oakland Athletics Top 20 prospects for 2018 - ( New Window )
This guy's numbers are way worse than Plawecki's at the same age.
Puk and Kaprielian are both interesting.
If it's around Murphy, hopefully there's at least a decent second piece.
Sheldon Neuse is also interesting at 3B, though he's having a terrible year at AAA. Oakland Athletics Top 20 prospects for 2018 - ( New Window )
Id be hesitant to look at something from March. A lot has likely changed since then. For instance Murphy's value has gone way up. Has BA released their mid-season top 10 like they did for the Mets the other day?
Quote:
In comment 14017434 pjcas18 said:
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being willing to take on salary?
Quote:
Jerry Crasnick
Verified account @jcrasnick
The #Athletics had interest in Jeurys Familia, as @susanslusser reported. But apparently theyre not willing to take on as much money as another club in the bidding.
11:20 PM - 20 Jul 2018 from Barnstable Town, MA
I will be really annoyed if we take a much worse offer because it required us kicking in less money. It isnt like Familias contract is an albatross.
That could be deceiving. If two teams are offering roughly the same return in prospects of course you are going to trade with the team willing to take on a little extra salary on top of it. Mets already said they would eat salary for a better return.
That is why I said a much worse offer. If it is comparable I have no issue saving some money
lol. So hes playing now, why exactly? Get the surgery now. Not in the off-season. If thats the recovery time. Unreal
Jorge Mateo | IF/OF | AAA > Another player with game-changing speed, his effort has been questioned. He needs to focus more on getting on base to take advantage of that speed.
Oakland Athletics Top 10 Prospects Updated - ( New Window )
This guy's numbers are way worse than Plawecki's at the same age.
I dont think your looking at his numbers right. He had a wRC+ of 130 in A+ ball. He did struggle over 200 atbats when he got promoted to AA but now he's right back up to a wRC+ of 130ish again at that level. It's normal for there to be an adjustment after being promoted. If his defense is good, 130 is more than enough.
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Jorge Mateo | IF/OF | AAA > Another player with game-changing speed, his effort has been questioned. He needs to focus more on getting on base to take advantage of that speed.
Oakland Athletics Top 10 Prospects Updated - ( New Window )
Nice. Thanks.
Obviously, there is a huge dearth of catchers in MLB, so I can see why he has some value. But I hope he is not the return
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Obviously, there is a huge dearth of catchers in MLB, so I can see why he has some value. But I hope he is not the return
I'd be happy with Murphy, but he doesn't seem particularly exciting. Seems like an overachiever and agree about the repeat success.
I'm glad Oakland seems to have a pretty good system. They got a great return from the Nats last year, so hopefully they can return the favor. Would love to grab that pitcher coming back from TJS and another player.
Obviously, there is a huge dearth of catchers in MLB, so I can see why he has some value. But I hope he is not the return
He didnt repeat a year though. He spent most of last year in A+. 200atbats in AA to finish the year last year isnt some massive sample where he shoukd have started AAA this year automatically. The fact that hes now hitting almost exactly 130 two years in a row at two different levels is likely far more telling. Either way I doubt we are getting him.
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Cespedes says that the cause of his medical issues is calcification in both heels. He says the only way to fix the issue is surgery. Hes considering it for the off-season, but the recovery time is apparently 8-10 months.
lol. So hes playing now, why exactly? Get the surgery now. Not in the off-season. If thats the recovery time. Unreal
1. He will likely miss a good junk of next year if he has the surgery.
2. So the real benefit would be in 2020, the last year of his contract. But what is the the guarantee that he is the same player after a 8-10 month recovery.
3. I'll take him missing 80 games each of the next two years if he hit like has this year even while missing time
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Numbers for a guy repeating a year are always suspect. Especially at age 23.
Obviously, there is a huge dearth of catchers in MLB, so I can see why he has some value. But I hope he is not the return
He didnt repeat a year though. He spent most of last year in A+. 200atbats in AA to finish the year last year isnt some massive sample where he shoukd have started AAA this year automatically. The fact that hes now hitting almost exactly 130 two years in a row at two different levels is likely far more telling. Either way I doubt we are getting him.
You guys are arguing over a dude that might not even be in the trade
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In comment 14017466 Vanzetti said:
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Numbers for a guy repeating a year are always suspect. Especially at age 23.
Obviously, there is a huge dearth of catchers in MLB, so I can see why he has some value. But I hope he is not the return
He didnt repeat a year though. He spent most of last year in A+. 200atbats in AA to finish the year last year isnt some massive sample where he shoukd have started AAA this year automatically. The fact that hes now hitting almost exactly 130 two years in a row at two different levels is likely far more telling. Either way I doubt we are getting him.
You guys are arguing over a dude that might not even be in the trade
It's therapeutic.
1. He will likely miss a good junk of next year if he has the surgery.
2. So the real benefit would be in 2020, the last year of his contract. But what is the the guarantee that he is the same player after a 8-10 month recovery.
3. I'll take him missing 80 games each of the next two years if he hit like has this year even while missing time
Why not just get it now? They're not going anywhere this year and if he got it now he could possibly be ready by the end of spring/beginning of next season. Then he could get most if not all of next season healthy.
It doesn't make sense to me to miss a good portion of this year already, play with pain through the rest of a wasted year, and then either miss most of next year if he gets the surgery or play injured again if he doesn't get it. Just chalk this season up as a loss and get ready asap for next.
I think it could be a solid hire. The current Red Sox owe a lot of their success to him and he made a few savvy moves to dump bad contracts he inherited. He also signed a few big free agent busts, but overall, it seemed like he really went out of his way to load up on assets in Boston and it eventually paid dividends there after he left.
Would seemingly be a good get. I'm still hoping that pitcher about to come back from TJS they got from the Yankees is 1 of the pieces. He's 24 and hasn't pitched in 2 years, but seems like a nice lotto ticket.
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Lazaro Armenteros Was held out of his minor league game
Would seemingly be a good get. I'm still hoping that pitcher about to come back from TJS they got from the Yankees is 1 of the pieces. He's 24 and hasn't pitched in 2 years, but seems like a nice lotto ticket.
If I were you I would be very happy with Lazaro Armenteros or Kaprielian. Kaprielian will be on an innings limit next year though but he is a good gamble to take moving forward. They aren't going to get Puk or Luzardo for a rental.
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In comment 14017498 Rflairr said:
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Lazaro Armenteros Was held out of his minor league game
Would seemingly be a good get. I'm still hoping that pitcher about to come back from TJS they got from the Yankees is 1 of the pieces. He's 24 and hasn't pitched in 2 years, but seems like a nice lotto ticket.
If I were you I would be very happy with Lazaro Armenteros or Kaprielian. Kaprielian will be on an innings limit next year though but he is a good gamble to take moving forward. They aren't going to get Puk or Luzardo for a rental.
I'd be very happy with either one.
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In comment 14017456 BigBlue4You09 said:
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Cespedes says that the cause of his medical issues is calcification in both heels. He says the only way to fix the issue is surgery. Hes considering it for the off-season, but the recovery time is apparently 8-10 months.
lol. So hes playing now, why exactly? Get the surgery now. Not in the off-season. If thats the recovery time. Unreal
It really makes no sense to wait until the off-season. What is gained by waiting and then missing the first few months of next season?
Cespedes is a lost cause as a Met. He will have surgery and take 2 years to recover. Thank goodness we have Bautista this season and a recovered Bruce for next season.
Cespedes and Wright will be off the books the same year right? Might as well sit him out and have idiot media write endless stories about his comeback atrempts too.
Tim Healey
Verified account @timbhealey
1h1 hour ago
Jeurys Familia doesnt have a uniform at his locker.
@nickcafardo
The Red Sox inquired about Familia but the Mets were already engaged in making a deal with Oakland.
Jerry Crasnick
✔
@jcrasnick
Its down to the medical reviews in the Jeurys Familia #Mets #Athletics trade, according to sources. Once thats done, the deal should sail through.
Mateo played 10 innings last night and the young OF'er got pulled so it seems like he's going to be the good piece. What the 2nd piece is who knows. I'd rather go with the upside so I'd roll the dice on the guy who hasn't pitched in 2 years, but good luck figuring out where he should rank when taking the injuries into account.
Fulmer was absolutely one of our top 5 prospects.
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generally garner one good prospect (1-10 team range). Even when we gave up Fulmer for Cespedes, Fulmer wasnt close to our best prospect. He was more in the 5-10 range. I expect similar and if a second or third piece are added they are likely just upside wild cards.
Fulmer was absolutely one of our top 5 prospects.
On what planet? You do realize mid 2015, Syndergaard, Matz, Conforto, Nimmo were all still prospects, yes?
the Mets are his 4th organization. Yes, the Mets medical team seems like keystone cops, but they're hardly alone if Cespedes' condition was medically detectable and a big deal.
the Mets are his 4th organization. Yes, the Mets medical team seems like keystone cops, but they're hardly alone if Cespedes' condition was medically detectable and a big deal.
But all those organizations got rid of him very quickly. I remember being surprised when Oakland traded him because he was their big foray into the international market. Red Sox had him for about two months. Detroit for about 4 months. Four teams in his first four years.
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has had this condition for 15 years and people are killing the Mets for that.
the Mets are his 4th organization. Yes, the Mets medical team seems like keystone cops, but they're hardly alone if Cespedes' condition was medically detectable and a big deal.
But all those organizations got rid of him very quickly. I remember being surprised when Oakland traded him because he was their big foray into the international market. Red Sox had him for about two months. Detroit for about 4 months. Four teams in his first four years.
Agree, but he still had to pass a physical, my only point is if this condition was so detectable and debilitating one of the other three organizations should have or would have caught it too.
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In comment 14017767 pjcas18 said:
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has had this condition for 15 years and people are killing the Mets for that.
the Mets are his 4th organization. Yes, the Mets medical team seems like keystone cops, but they're hardly alone if Cespedes' condition was medically detectable and a big deal.
But all those organizations got rid of him very quickly. I remember being surprised when Oakland traded him because he was their big foray into the international market. Red Sox had him for about two months. Detroit for about 4 months. Four teams in his first four years.
Agree, but he still had to pass a physical, my only point is if this condition was so detectable and debilitating one of the other three organizations should have or would have caught it too.
Yeah, I don't necessarily blame the Mets for not catching it. Probably hard to detect unless the player specifically complains about the heel, and I'm sure Cespedes was smart enough not to draw attention to it before he had his big contract.
It's just when you have the history with poor doctors/medical like the Mets, the team is going to get blamed when something like this pops. You are your reputation.
Mets doing what they do best and getting rid of guys bc they are the most expensive and best and then signing guys who are second tier to contracts that are above the league market and hyping them as stars
Mateo played 10 innings last night and the young OF'er got pulled so it seems like he's going to be the good piece. What the 2nd piece is who knows. I'd rather go with the upside so I'd roll the dice on the guy who hasn't pitched in 2 years, but good luck figuring out where he should rank when taking the injuries into account.
They do have a deep system but Kaprielian had a setback in his TJS recovery and hasn't thrown a pitch in a game in two years.
Kevin Kernan
@WheresKernan
Just a reminder, asked Ricco about improving Mets defense yesterday a no brainer and he gave a non-answer saying he is one of only 3
2:22 PM - 21 Jul 2018
Kevin Kernan
@WheresKernan
Just a reminder, asked Ricco about improving Mets defense yesterday a no brainer and he gave a non-answer saying he is one of only 3
2:22 PM - 21 Jul 2018
Ask Jeff Wilpon the real GM
Mets doing what they do best and getting rid of guys bc they are the most expensive and best and then signing guys who are second tier to contracts that are above the league market and hyping them as stars
Yup. Mets don't sign or resign the big free agents and then attempt to save face by acquiring a cheaper alternative.
Vince Coleman, Appier, Mo Vaughn, Jay Bruce, Todd Frazier . .. . the list goes on and on . . . the same failed approach again and again
So after they let Degrom go, what brilliant alternative will they sign?
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Mets doing what they do best and getting rid of guys bc they are the most expensive and best and then signing guys who are second tier to contracts that are above the league market and hyping them as stars
Yup. Mets don't sign or resign the big free agents and then attempt to save face by acquiring a cheaper alternative.
Vince Coleman, Appier, Mo Vaughn, Jay Bruce, Todd Frazier . .. . the list goes on and on . . . the same failed approach again and again
So after they let Degrom go, what brilliant alternative will they sign?
Key to winning baseball is developing your homegrown talent, augmented by analytics. Not reliance on free agency.
7/21/18, 3:44 PM
Hearing the As and Mets have finalized a trade. As sending two prospects, plus international slot money, to Mets for Jeurys Familia.
Anthony DiComo (@AnthonyDiComo)
7/21/18, 3:49 PM
Will Toffey, a 23-year-old third baseman and Oakland's 17th-ranked prospect, is one of the two players the Mets are getting in return for Jeurys Familia.
What a crappy return. Sounds like the Mets being unwilling to part with money strikes again.
Looks like a nice player at an area of need for the organization.
7/21/18, 3:53 PM
The other prospect the Mets are getting is Bobby Wahl, according to @Joelsherman1. He's a 26-year-old reliever who throws in the mid-90s, and had a cup of coffee in the big leagues last year.
Looks like a nice player at an area of need for the organization.
Yeah not bad. Just checked that. Plus an upside reliever and IFA money.
Looks like a nice player at an area of need for the organization.
Toffey was hyped coming out of Vandy, but isnt the toolsiest of players so the opinions likely vary widely depending on what you value. When I was looking at As farm system I just knew the Mets would overvalue him with his production in PCL
7/21/18, 3:57 PM
Heard the amount coming to NYM in international dollars is somewhat significant. Could see with Minaya back with big say #Mets pushing harder internationally
Seems like almost a better return for Reed than they got for Familia.
How is that consistent with the Mets saying they want major league ready prospects?
this franchise is all over the map.
And I'm not so sure 2 top 30 IFA prospects is "making big signings"
He's a 23 year old in High A with a .244 batting avg, .384 slugging % and 30% K rate.
Their top prospects are a guy who will not pitch until late 2019 if not 2020 in Groome and a fading prospect who's now a busted PED user (Chavis).
Pure coincidence it got mentioned yesterday ;)
In comment 14016894 Shecky said:
Best trade team made all last year was getting the extra IFA money and using it well.
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But he went to school. He's a decent prospect.
He's a 23 year old in High A with a .244 batting avg, .384 slugging % and 30% K rate.
I said decent. Walks a good bit, power probably 15-20 if it clicks. Decent 3B. Not elite though.
Source: #Athletics taking all of Familias remaining salary, which is slightly more than $3M.
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Depending on how much we got it could be huge. Shecky has mentioned numerous times that was big last year when we did this and we followed it up by making big signings this year.
How is that consistent with the Mets saying they want major league ready prospects?
this franchise is all over the map.
And I'm not so sure 2 top 30 IFA prospects is "making big signings"
They spent much more money on one player than they ever had before. I dont really know what you are getting at. The reliever has already been in the majors and is having a good year in AAA. The 3B is college bat. How are these guys far away? Further, why do you presume to know what was offered? We didnt see a lot of great returns last years deadline either for any team. And I think the 3 million for Familia is a joke. Just because we didnt eat it doesnt mean the return was messy. What ML team cant take on a measly 3 million bucks in 2018?? Teams are interesting in giving away better returns over 3 million.
One evaluator wonders if the Mets might consider shifting Will Toffey to catcher. A few have suggested he has tool set to do so. Right now hes a third baseman and is seen as a fringe major leaguer.
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Depending on how much we got it could be huge. Shecky has mentioned numerous times that was big last year when we did this and we followed it up by making big signings this year.
Pure coincidence it got mentioned yesterday ;)
In comment 14016894 Shecky said:
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Is a BIG boy.
Best trade team made all last year was getting the extra IFA money and using it well.
Nice. I figured. ;)
Source: #Mets getting $1M in international slot money from #Athletics as part of deal.
Source: #Mets getting $1M in international slot money from #Athletics as part of deal.
Nice. I dont think Rosario was signed for much more than that.
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Ken Rosenthal
Source: #Mets getting $1M in international slot money from #Athletics as part of deal.
Nice. I dont think Rosario was signed for much more than that.
Stop it. $1.75M and it was over 6 years ago.
I know you want to always view the positive in every transaction, but this trade is a big bag of shit.
Wonder which guy had a medical issue that held this up...or maybe there was another "prospect" that they were looking at.
This organization sucks.
Source: #Mets getting $1M in international slot money from #Athletics as part of deal.
That's the only significant part of the deal. The "prospects" are non-entities.
If the Mets had that extra one million two years ago, they could have signed Vlad Jr. instead of his cousin Greg (which still cracks me up).
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In comment 14017949 KevinBBWC said:
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Ken Rosenthal
Source: #Mets getting $1M in international slot money from #Athletics as part of deal.
Nice. I dont think Rosario was signed for much more than that.
Stop it. $1.75M and it was over 6 years ago.
I know you want to always view the positive in every transaction, but this trade is a big bag of shit.
Lol ok.
Other teams that were in on Familia: cubs, Red Sox, indians, dbacks, braves
Man, FTT.
You can't tell me that there wasn't a better deal that could have been out there, especially if they waited another week.
The money thing is a major stretch though. I seriously doubt ML teams give a crap about saving 3 million dollars. 150 million dollar payrolls are considered light these days. Also, people act like the Granderson and Walker deals never happened last year. Both deals, the Mets sent money the other way.
Crap return, as expected.
At this point Im anxious to unload Cabrera and others. Looking forward to seeing McNeil and some of the younger relievers get some burn.
Honest question Jay. Are the Braves giving up a better return over 3 million bucks? (Not saying they couldnt offer a better package overall.. exclusively talking about the ability to take on 3 mil)
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3B Rio Ruiz and RP Jacob Webb is a much better return. Ruiz is currently in AAA also.
Honest question Jay. Are the Braves giving up a better return over 3 million bucks? (Not saying they couldnt offer a better package overall.. exclusively talking about the ability to take on 3 mil)
Atlanta, maybe not but Oakland is a small market team and they might but who really knows. All we can do is speculate. There was just a rumor that they didn't show serious interest because of his remaining salary.
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In comment 14017969 Jay on the Island said:
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3B Rio Ruiz and RP Jacob Webb is a much better return. Ruiz is currently in AAA also.
Honest question Jay. Are the Braves giving up a better return over 3 million bucks? (Not saying they couldnt offer a better package overall.. exclusively talking about the ability to take on 3 mil)
Atlanta, maybe not but Oakland is a small market team and they might but who really knows. All we can do is speculate. There was just a rumor that they didn't show serious interest because of his remaining salary.
Asdrubal Cabrera for Wes Parsons and international money?
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In comment 14017973 ZGiants98 said:
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In comment 14017969 Jay on the Island said:
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3B Rio Ruiz and RP Jacob Webb is a much better return. Ruiz is currently in AAA also.
Honest question Jay. Are the Braves giving up a better return over 3 million bucks? (Not saying they couldnt offer a better package overall.. exclusively talking about the ability to take on 3 mil)
Atlanta, maybe not but Oakland is a small market team and they might but who really knows. All we can do is speculate. There was just a rumor that they didn't show serious interest because of his remaining salary.
Asdrubal Cabrera for Wes Parsons and international money?
I would say yes as long as Cabrera is willing to play 3B.
Joel Sherman Verified account @Joelsherman1
Few quick thoughts on #Mets dealing Familia: NYM said would eat $ to get better prospects, but they ate none of $3M-ish left and 2 personnel men were not high on Toffey or Wahl and with so many teams looking for late-inning relief there was surprise that NYM didn't wait
@Joelsherman1
1m1 minute ago
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closer to deadline since this kind of return could have been gotten any time, why not see if teams bid up a package with deadline nearing? Perhaps #Mets had concerns about Familia's health or they did not get as much interest as anticipated and didn't want to risk more innings on
Joel Sherman
Verified account
@Joelsherman1
1m1 minute ago
Famiia's arm. They did like Toffey in draft last yr. He has patience and glove, question if power will come. Wahl has power stuff/elite AAA stats, but team that knew him best didn't call him up based on that, it traded for Familia. My gut is #Mets will say international $ were
Joel Sherman
Verified account
@Joelsherman1
1m1 minute ago
huge in newest plot to upgrade system. Either way there are a lot of issues/questions here and that no #Mets official involved in the trade spoke publicly is a horrific look for this club. Fans want more than a canned quote in a press release from an asst GM. If this is about
Joel Sherman
Verified account
@Joelsherman1
#Mets execs hiding because they were not on same page pre-game on Cespedes, just lump 1 shameful act on another. This is NY. This is the big leagues. If you can't get this right, you really shouldn't be trusted to trade deGrom or Syndergaard. NYM really must clean up this kind of
Joel Sherman
Verified account
@Joelsherman1
shoot themselves behavior. You trade 1 of best releivers in #Mets history and 1 or 2 best that will get moved in this market and don't address your fans thru reporters you are saying something about the competence and functionality of your group.
Dont bet on it
2. Wahl is a guy who can pitch in the bullpen for the next six years. Struggles with command but has dominant numbers at AAA. You hope he turns out to be the next Heath Bell but at worst he should be a back of the pen guy, who is solid.
3. International Money is invaluable because this where you can strike it rich because MLB has artificially constricted the market in terms of dollars spent.
So, after some initial disappointment, this was actually a solid trade in very diminished market. Not amazing. But not awful either.
This guy was so unprepared to be a manager.
2. Wahl is a guy who can pitch in the bullpen for the next six years. Struggles with command but has dominant numbers at AAA. You hope he turns out to be the next Heath Bell but at worst he should be a back of the pen guy, who is solid.
3. International Money is invaluable because this where you can strike it rich because MLB has artificially constricted the market in terms of dollars spent.
So, after some initial disappointment, this was actually a solid trade in very diminished market. Not amazing. But not awful either.
Which of the triumvirate are you because that is unadulterated hogwash. The fact is the Mets got less for Familia than Florida got for A.J. Ramos because they were concerned about offloading salary not building the farm system. If a Catcher was the target you make clear to Oakland that Murphy is required in any deal. There was enough interest that they didn't need to consent to trash now
@MarcCarig
31m31 minutes ago
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Mets trade away one of the best relievers in team history, the return is questionable, and not one of the three assistant GMs addresses it? That lack of accountability is the clearest sign yet that the Mets baseball ops is now being run by new GM Jeff Wilpon.
Marc Carig
Verified account
@MarcCarig
11m11 minutes ago
More
This brazen lack of accountability tells me that the folks running the New York Mets think that you, the fans, are dumb enough to accept this nonsense. Its quite insulting.
Yup. Should open some eyes in terms of more fairly grading Sandy's performance the past 8 years. Gone for 10 minutes and the organization is back to being a literal clown show. They had their moments when he was here but nothing like this. Wonder which reporter Omar will go after at the deadline press conference.
Torres and Andujar
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What's the minimum return from the Yankees that you would find acceptable for Syndergaard?
Torres and Andujar
Ludicrous. Why would the Mets accept that when they have Oakland on speed dial and could get a couple of fringe prospects and some IFA cash? Im sure theyd rather that than make a deal with the Yankees
Drury isnt a AAA relief pitcher
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The Yanks might can get deGrom for Drury
Drury isnt a AAA relief pitcher
They could convert him. Or maybe try him at catcher
Keith Law
ESPN Senior Writer
"If the New York Mets are just going to trade their most valuable major league assets for salary relief, rather than to try to improve the club, then it's time for MLB to step in and force the Wilpons to sell the team, just as the league did with Frank McCourt and the Dodgers. Trading Jeurys Familia for two fringe-at-best prospects is not how any team, regardless of payroll level, should operate in this environment. For a franchise that operates in the largest market in the league to do this -- and do so ten days before the trade deadline rather than waiting for someone to offer a legitimate return -- is embarrassing for the Mets and for Major League Baseball as a whole."
I have to imagine that the Astros, for one, could and would have beaten this package easily.
Sometimes it feels like some of the negative things that get said about the Mets are a little drastic / hyperbolic, but making this trade for this return 10 days before the deadline screams that there is actually something broken in the process.
Im not trying to salt any wounds here, Ill shut up if its coming across the wrong way. Im just a pretty big baseball fan and this is absurd and fascinating to me.
I agree with your point that IFA $ do have value, and more value than many fans will discuss.
But you can land a jumbo jet between a top return and this package.
The market is the market, and you cant make a team desperate for a Jeurys Familia if theyre not, but its incredibly hard to believe that 10 more days of pounding the pavement and playing the trade-deadline-seller game couldnt have extracted a decent bit more.
Thats just a ridiculous take, if true. What is the harm waiting 10 more days? How the hell do the Mets know the market wouldnt pick up? And how do they know that there wont be an injury or two around the league in the next two weeks, forcing teams to make a move that they otherwise wouldnt have?
I see no benefactor all to saying well, we are doing this immediately because nothing will change in the next 10 days. Nobody on the planet possibly knows that. So what was the rush?
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Ken Rosenthal or Joel Sherman quoted a Mets source saying they informed teams they were moving quickly because they didn't expect the market to change in 10 days. I really don't think Familia is that valuable. He isn't Andre Miller or Chapman. He isn't Familia 2015 or 2016 either.
Thats just a ridiculous take, if true. What is the harm waiting 10 more days? How the hell do the Mets know the market wouldnt pick up? And how do they know that there wont be an injury or two around the league in the next two weeks, forcing teams to make a move that they otherwise wouldnt have?
I see no benefactor all to saying well, we are doing this immediately because nothing will change in the next 10 days. Nobody on the planet possibly knows that. So what was the rush?
Ugh. BENEFIT OF, not benefactor...
@adamgfisher
4h4 hours ago
More
I was told that the market for Familia was pretty light. Obviously not taking back any money is a factor with regard to the return, but again, the market for rental players is not what it used to be and neither is Familia.
that is ridiculous. Jeurys Familia is one of the best closers in baseball over the past 5 years and one of the best relievers available at this deadline.
Mets FO sucks.
As I said before, they'd have been better off keeping him, offering the QO, and when he declined getting a sandwich pick or whatever they're called.
the two players sound like at best AAAA players and the INTL money to get the next Kenny Hernandez will be 5 years away minimum.
How do you know how long medicals took related to other trades? Maybe it was the exact same amount of time.
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that they had a similar situation last year and the offers never changed for addison reed who i consider a similar value as familia. They probably want to focus there energies more on cabrera and more imporantly wheeler who they can probably get significantly more for.
that is ridiculous. Jeurys Familia is one of the best closers in baseball over the past 5 years and one of the best relievers available at this deadline.
Mets FO sucks.
As I said before, they'd have been better off keeping him, offering the QO, and when he declined getting a sandwich pick or whatever they're called.
the two players sound like at best AAAA players and the INTL money to get the next Kenny Hernandez will be 5 years away minimum.
This is one of those times I have to respectfully disagree with you. QO are now dangerous because more free agents will accept the qualifying offer and then you are stuck with a high priced player for one year. Remember Neil Walker.
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In comment 14018083 CMicks3110 said:
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that they had a similar situation last year and the offers never changed for addison reed who i consider a similar value as familia. They probably want to focus there energies more on cabrera and more imporantly wheeler who they can probably get significantly more for.
that is ridiculous. Jeurys Familia is one of the best closers in baseball over the past 5 years and one of the best relievers available at this deadline.
Mets FO sucks.
As I said before, they'd have been better off keeping him, offering the QO, and when he declined getting a sandwich pick or whatever they're called.
the two players sound like at best AAAA players and the INTL money to get the next Kenny Hernandez will be 5 years away minimum.
This is one of those times I have to respectfully disagree with you. QO are now dangerous because more free agents will accept the qualifying offer and then you are stuck with a high priced player for one year. Remember Neil Walker.
So what if he accepts? Worst case is Familia is your closer next year for $17.5M or whatever it is, for 1 year. Tradeable again next deadline, when maybe there is a real GM.
It's seems low risk to me in the case of Familia, assuming he finishes the season healthy.
Unlike Walker.
none of those bullpen arms projects to be as good as Familia and Gsellman and Lugo were starters
Familia would have made over $10M if he were arbitration eligible (vs a FA), I wouldn't sweat over $8M or so difference and if that ($8M) is what prevents the Mets from pursuing Machado (a pipe dream) then they have bigger problems.
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that they had a similar situation last year and the offers never changed for addison reed who i consider a similar value as familia. They probably want to focus there energies more on cabrera and more imporantly wheeler who they can probably get significantly more for.
that is ridiculous. Jeurys Familia is one of the best closers in baseball over the past 5 years and one of the best relievers available at this deadline.
Mets FO sucks.
As I said before, they'd have been better off keeping him, offering the QO, and when he declined getting a sandwich pick or whatever they're called.
the two players sound like at best AAAA players and the INTL money to get the next Kenny Hernandez will be 5 years away minimum.
3m reasons why I agree with this post and the Mets org doesnt.
Ken Rosenthal
Verified account @Ken_Rosenthal
3h3 hours ago
At least one rival exec who was interested in Familia is upset the #Mets jumped on #Athletics offer 10 days before deadline without getting back to his club first. Another also found it curious NYM jumped so soon, saying, The intl money must have been real important to them.
Ken Rosenthal
Verified account
@Ken_Rosenthal
3h3 hours ago
More Ken Rosenthal Retweeted Ken Rosenthal
However, another exec who wanted Familia says, Teams had plenty of time to jump in. Im sure after they agreed they told teams they couldnt get back in but no way a week ago did they say that. Per source, NYM told teams they were moving. Didnt feel waiting would help return.
How about Bautista or Jacob Rhame? Because it's the same story.
If we were trying to trade for someone, what kind of player would we estimate we'd get back for that assortment of crap?
As PJ said - we would gladly trade all of those players for an extra sandwich pick in an upcoming draft - which would be the worst case scenario in hanging on to Familia. That or having one of the best relievers in the game (currently 17th in fwar among all relievers) on the roster again next year at a reasonable price.
Maybe there's a grand plan to get enough bonus $ to sign this guy Victor Victor. But I'll believe this organization can pull something like that off when I see it. Anyone still giving them the benefit of the doubt on anything is really just asking to get kicked in the nuts.
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1. Toffey is only in his second year, so he does not have to be put on the 40 man roster. Draws a lot of walks, which is what Mets look for a la Nimmo. Speculation that Mets plan to convert him to catcher.
2. Wahl is a guy who can pitch in the bullpen for the next six years. Struggles with command but has dominant numbers at AAA. You hope he turns out to be the next Heath Bell but at worst he should be a back of the pen guy, who is solid.
3. International Money is invaluable because this where you can strike it rich because MLB has artificially constricted the market in terms of dollars spent.
So, after some initial disappointment, this was actually a solid trade in very diminished market. Not amazing. But not awful either.
Which of the triumvirate are you because that is unadulterated hogwash. The fact is the Mets got less for Familia than Florida got for A.J. Ramos because they were concerned about offloading salary not building the farm system. If a Catcher was the target you make clear to Oakland that Murphy is required in any deal. There was enough interest that they didn't need to consent to trash now
Dude, I have been the biggest critic of Sandy "lol" Alderson and the Mets FO on here for YEARS.
When you and many others were part of the Sandy Fan Club. I called the Ramos trade ludicrous and awful AT THE TIME.
So, you can bash me for many things, but being overly supportive of Mets management is not one of them. I don't think this trade is awful because the market for rentals is diminished and I don't think Familia is valued as highly around the league as he is by Mets fans. Is it a very good trade? No. But it is about what you should expect with what the market has been. Plus, as with most trades, you have to see how it works out. Voicing some definitive opinion when a trade is made is foolish.
Sandy?
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In comment 14017990 Vanzetti said:
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1. Toffey is only in his second year, so he does not have to be put on the 40 man roster. Draws a lot of walks, which is what Mets look for a la Nimmo. Speculation that Mets plan to convert him to catcher.
2. Wahl is a guy who can pitch in the bullpen for the next six years. Struggles with command but has dominant numbers at AAA. You hope he turns out to be the next Heath Bell but at worst he should be a back of the pen guy, who is solid.
3. International Money is invaluable because this where you can strike it rich because MLB has artificially constricted the market in terms of dollars spent.
So, after some initial disappointment, this was actually a solid trade in very diminished market. Not amazing. But not awful either.
Which of the triumvirate are you because that is unadulterated hogwash. The fact is the Mets got less for Familia than Florida got for A.J. Ramos because they were concerned about offloading salary not building the farm system. If a Catcher was the target you make clear to Oakland that Murphy is required in any deal. There was enough interest that they didn't need to consent to trash now
Dude, I have been the biggest critic of Sandy "lol" Alderson and the Mets FO on here for YEARS.
When you and many others were part of the Sandy Fan Club. I called the Ramos trade ludicrous and awful AT THE TIME.
So, you can bash me for many things, but being overly supportive of Mets management is not one of them. I don't think this trade is awful because the market for rentals is diminished and I don't think Familia is valued as highly around the league as he is by Mets fans. Is it a very good trade? No. But it is about what you should expect with what the market has been. Plus, as with most trades, you have to see how it works out. Voicing some definitive opinion when a trade is made is foolish.
If the market for rentals was so diminished, why did Baltimore end up with multiple prospects better than the best player we got? If the Cuban was also in the deal I could live with it, but this just reaks of trading to save money rather than acquire talent.
If the market for rentals was so diminished, why did Baltimore end up with multiple prospects better than the best player we got? If the Cuban was also in the deal I could live with it, but this just reaks of trading to save money rather than acquire talent.
Because Baltimore traded away one of the league's best hitters who plays a premium position.
Familia has a ridiculously better track record and longer period of being a consistently good reliever.
Hand has two years left on his contract, but the returns, even while I thought Hand's return was a little light, are still incongruous.
Familia has a ridiculously better track record and longer period of being a consistently good reliever.
Hand has two years left on his contract, but the returns, even while I thought Hand's return was a little light, are still incongruous.
I think you answered your own point by mentioning how much time each player has left on their contracts. I agree that the return is a little light, but considering Familia is a 2 1/2 month rental, it's not terrible.
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is Brad Hand.
Familia has a ridiculously better track record and longer period of being a consistently good reliever.
Hand has two years left on his contract, but the returns, even while I thought Hand's return was a little light, are still incongruous.
I think you answered your own point by mentioning how much time each player has left on their contracts. I agree that the return is a little light, but considering Familia is a 2 1/2 month rental, it's not terrible.
it wasn't a question, it was a statement.
Even with 2 years left on his contract, Hand is not in the same class of reliever and has nowhere near the track record that Familia does.
the Marlins DFA'd Hand. He was picked up off waivers by SD.
Even with the contract disparity, I think the return for Familia was incongruous with the return for Hand.
For the Mets to bring back 2 players who don't even rate in their top 20 for a player having a better year than Herrera by most metrics is absurd.
$15M left owed to Hand after this season isn't necessarily something I'd view as some huge positive.
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the 3rd year is a team option for $10 million.
$15M left owed to Hand after this season isn't necessarily something I'd view as some huge positive.
I never said that it was, I was just pointing out that he has 3 years of control. If he is pitching well over the next 2 1/2 years then that $10 million dollar option is a no brainer. With that said due to the volatility of relievers the chances of him sustaining this level of play is not very good.
that's my point, even with the term difference left in contract the return is incongruous with the return for Familia.
Forget MLB top prospects, these guys were not even in the A's top 30 prospects, they were organizational fodder. possibly not in the A's top 50 prospects.
And it's not like the A's had a top 10 farm system.
Mets got fleeced, no other way around it.
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in baseball over the past 3 seasons. The discrepancy in his years of control is big, but the return he brought back is light years. Mejia is higher ranked prospect right now than Frazier or Torres were when they were traded.
that's my point, even with the term difference left in contract the return is incongruous with the return for Familia.
Forget MLB top prospects, these guys were not even in the A's top 30 prospects, they were organizational fodder. possibly not in the A's top 50 prospects.
And it's not like the A's had a top 10 farm system.
Mets got fleeced, no other way around it.
Yup. The only hope is that the fallout is strong enough it pushes the wilponzis to bring in a real GM in the offseason. But I'll believe that when I see it.
If you include the club option, three years remaining for a total of $24M for one of the 3-4 best LH RPs in the game, with closer experience, is a tremendous asset.
At 28 years old, if Hand were hitting the free agent market right now, I suspect hed get somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 years, $65M.
If you include the club option, three years remaining for a total of $24M for one of the 3-4 best LH RPs in the game, with closer experience, is a tremendous asset.
At 28 years old, if Hand were hitting the free agent market right now, I suspect hed get somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 years, $65M.
Fair point, Hand has re-invented himself with his slider, but two years ago Hand was DFA'd. And no trade was worked out. he was claimed off waivers by SD - for nothing.
My view of relievers is that they're fungible to an extent, except for the truly elite.
I'd be willing to bet that Familia vs Hand (even with the money each gets - so factor in a new contract for Familia) Familia proves to be the better pitcher the next 5 years.
(Also further highlighting that keeping Familia and making the QO would have been a better option than trading 10 days before the deadline for a bad return...we are most definitely on the same page there).
(Also further highlighting that keeping Familia and making the QO would have been a better option than trading 10 days before the deadline for a bad return...we are most definitely on the same page there).
all fair. And if you accept that discrepancy the return IMO for Hand is STILL incongruous with the return for Familia.
Hand netted the Indians #1 prospect, and a top 5 - top 20 (depending on your source) overall MLB prospect.
Familia got zero top 30 prospects from the A's - let alone MLB top prospects and $1M of INTL pool money (for the record the 30th rated prospect this signing period got $1M - lower rated prospects may also have gotten that much).
I feel like Familia should have netted a better return, or if this was the best offer the Mets should have passed and offered the QO.