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The Jets are weird.

Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2018 12:02 am
http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-41025388-4


This may provide some clarity on the Sam Darnold standoff: While the offset clause remains an issue, the major sticking point, as I understand it, is default language pertaining to guaranteed money. Under the Jets' proposal, Darnold's entire guarantee will void if he's fined by the league for discipline or conduct on/off the field. This is different from the Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen contracts. In their cases, their guarantee voids with a suspension, not a fine. Big difference. The Jets' approach is unusual based on recent history. It's believed that, in the last 10 drafts, no top-3 pick had voidables tied to league fines. This may sound petty, but Darnold has a $30 million guarantee over the life of the proposed contract.


Rich Cimini, ESPN Staff Writer


Who in their right mind would even consider signing this deal if these are the facts?
Jets have buyers remorse  
mrvax : 7/30/2018 12:16 am : link
and recently saw how easy it is for a police officer to tackle him.
No- that was Mayifeld  
mrvax : 7/30/2018 12:17 am : link
but they already are not happy with Darnold.
if you take a guy to be your franchise QB  
bluepepper : 7/30/2018 12:57 am : link
and indeed the face of your franchise why the f would you nickel and dime him? Sign him, get him in camp, get him ready to be your QB. Stop worrying about what if he's a bust or a dickhead who you have to cut in 3 years.
Won’t hear the end of it if he’s a stud  
Ned In Atlanta : 7/30/2018 1:11 am : link
Between this, his bad supporting cast, and the fact that they are the jets were off to a good start
RE: if you take a guy to be your franchise QB  
Giantsfan79 : 7/30/2018 1:12 am : link
In comment 14024787 bluepepper said:
Quote:
and indeed the face of your franchise why the f would you nickel and dime him?


because it's the Jets
RE: if you take a guy to be your franchise QB  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2018 1:29 am : link
In comment 14024787 bluepepper said:
Quote:
and indeed the face of your franchise why the f would you nickel and dime him? Sign him, get him in camp, get him ready to be your QB. Stop worrying about what if he's a bust or a dickhead who you have to cut in 3 years.


There were rumors that the Jets wanted Mayfield and "settled" for Darnold. I also believe that the Jets have too many QBs and are trying to flip a guy like Bridgewater. In order to do that then they need to be able to justify giving their other QBs reps. I know this sounds like a conspiracy but we are talking about the Jets here. One, why would the Jets out of nowhere decide to make up something so ridiculous that has never been done before with top picks and allow their franchise QB to be missing valuable reps, meetings, etc.? Two, what other way would they be able to showcase another QB if they wanted to flip one?
Is it possible for Darnold to refuse to play this year?  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2018 1:40 am : link
I know the answer is yes but at what cost? I'd be curious about what options he has. If he doesn't sign does he go back into the 2019 draft or is he not allowed to? If he goes back into the draft he can really fuck the Jets over and still get paid. This has about a 0% chance at happening but I'd like to see a player really stick it to a stupid, greedy franchise. What the Chargers have done for years to guys like Brees, Rivers, and Bosa is insane. They make the players look like assholes.
Maybe  
Mr. Nickels : 7/30/2018 2:30 am : link
they expected to get Baker Mayfield and were too lazy to change the contract terms
robbie  
ZogZerg : 7/30/2018 6:11 am : link
You are way off. At worst, the Jets got their second highest rated QB. They have to have been ecstatic about that.

They are not fucking this up because they wanted Mayfield or because they want to "showcase" other QBs early in camp. That is just made up BS and completely ridiculous..

They are fucking this up because they are the Jets.
Fire the GM  
spike : 7/30/2018 6:31 am : link
Seriously.
Does Darnaud have character issues?
No chance I sign that  
UConn4523 : 7/30/2018 6:33 am : link
and leave my entire bonus potentially in the hands of the league that can fine for a thrown helmet or a uniform violation.

Darnold should tell the Jets to go fuck themselves.
RE: Fire the GM  
section125 : 7/30/2018 6:34 am : link
In comment 14024799 spike said:
Quote:
Seriously.
Does Darnaud have character issues?


Ask the Mets...
Last night the Jets Uniform thread got sidetracked  
Diver_Down : 7/30/2018 6:55 am : link
with the Darnold holdout. The issue of fines voiding the guarantees was raised by Cimini. Well, Manish Mehta disagrees, and states that the sticking point is the offset language. Darnold's camp (CAA agents) want the offset language removed so in the event he is cut, then he will be allowed to collect what is owed by the Jets and the new team. According to Mehta, everything else is a red herring.

My problem with this might be just agents doing what is in their best interest and not their client. If Darnold actually thinks he could be cut and wants the opportunity to double-dip, then he must not be that confident in his ability to lock-down the position without having to look over his shoulder.
Sam's Contract Holdout - ( New Window )
Diver  
UConn4523 : 7/30/2018 7:24 am : link
I disagree, it has to do with maximizing your earnings potential given the extreme constraints of the current CBA. It’s basically the only thing to bargain. It’s got nothing to do with a player not being confident enough to be paid in year 5.
RE: RE: if you take a guy to be your franchise QB  
dep026 : 7/30/2018 7:24 am : link
In comment 14024792 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14024787 bluepepper said:


Quote:


and indeed the face of your franchise why the f would you nickel and dime him? Sign him, get him in camp, get him ready to be your QB. Stop worrying about what if he's a bust or a dickhead who you have to cut in 3 years.



There were rumors that the Jets wanted Mayfield and "settled" for Darnold. I also believe that the Jets have too many QBs and are trying to flip a guy like Bridgewater. In order to do that then they need to be able to justify giving their other QBs reps. I know this sounds like a conspiracy but we are talking about the Jets here. One, why would the Jets out of nowhere decide to make up something so ridiculous that has never been done before with top picks and allow their franchise QB to be missing valuable reps, meetings, etc.? Two, what other way would they be able to showcase another QB if they wanted to flip one?


This is false. Jets wanted Darnold bad and it was covered by peter king in what happened when the Browns took Baker. Darnold was their number 1 guy.
RE: RE: RE: if you take a guy to be your franchise QB  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2018 7:43 am : link
In comment 14024805 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14024792 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 14024787 bluepepper said:


Quote:


and indeed the face of your franchise why the f would you nickel and dime him? Sign him, get him in camp, get him ready to be your QB. Stop worrying about what if he's a bust or a dickhead who you have to cut in 3 years.



There were rumors that the Jets wanted Mayfield and "settled" for Darnold. I also believe that the Jets have too many QBs and are trying to flip a guy like Bridgewater. In order to do that then they need to be able to justify giving their other QBs reps. I know this sounds like a conspiracy but we are talking about the Jets here. One, why would the Jets out of nowhere decide to make up something so ridiculous that has never been done before with top picks and allow their franchise QB to be missing valuable reps, meetings, etc.? Two, what other way would they be able to showcase another QB if they wanted to flip one?



This is false. Jets wanted Darnold bad and it was covered by peter king in what happened when the Browns took Baker. Darnold was their number 1 guy.


Dep, you understand what rumors are, correct? I never stated it as fact but there were many rumors that the Jets wamted Mayfield. His agent also said so. There was more than ome outlet saying this. Peter King is also jot the best source. You also state "what the Jets did AFTER Mayfield was selected." The Jets traded up to three very early because they believed they could get their guy there. Darnold was always talked about as the top pick and if not at one then at 2. If they Jets were im love with Darnold they wouldn't have traded up to three hoping he'd fall. It gives more credence to the fact they probably liked Mayfield a lot amd never thought they'd take Mayfield there. My buddy who is a Jets fan was saying for weeks that he kept hearing they loved Mayfield. So, like I said, nothing was ever stated as fact with my post. I stated rumors and some weird reason that I can see the Jets doing this crap.

Diver, if I am not mistaken, Ralph Vacchiano made up some bullshit story that Darnold is holding oit because of the offset language. That was nothing but his opinion because he said that is the only thing to negotiate with rookie deals. That is not true. Shortly after that Mehta (sp?) wrote the same. After that it was reported that the major hold up is not the offset language but rather voiding about 30 million dollars if he gets fined by the NFL. Players used to get fined for throwing a ball in the stands. I can see that still holding true. These could all be lies or all be the truth. Who knows? What I do know though is Ralph had no source im his article and just went with a generic outlook. The other ESPN writer did research. I'll stick with the person that used a source over someone that is just being general amd has always been a shit stirrer.
Here was a link  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2018 7:44 am : link
talking about Mayfield to the Jets.
Link - ( New Window )
Robbie  
dep026 : 7/30/2018 8:00 am : link
I can’t find kings article, but this should give you a better understanding that Darnold was always their guy...
Jets love Darnold - ( New Window )
Rob -  
Diver_Down : 7/30/2018 8:12 am : link
I am an agreement with the low-level fines threshold. No player should ever agree to such terms as we have all seen fines levied against players for such inconsequential actions. With that said, I'm a bit confused as the truth of the matter. No team has ever insisted on the low-level fines threshold, and I can't lend credence that the Jets want to trail-blaze on the contract front with whom they hope to be the face of the franchise. I don't know if the low-level fines language is something that the media has run with, but every player regardless of their clout (Mannings, Brady, Brees, etc.) has a forfeiture clause in their contract. It is part of the "cannned" contract terms that have been agreed upon in the CBA. The forfeiture clause that voids guarantees (future salary/bonuses and allows for the recoup of pro-rated signing bonus) has always been contingent on conduct detrimental to the team. (The PED suspension that Florio alludes to in my link would be a new one). Even with a conduct detrimental to the team suspension, the club still has the option to pursue the forfeiture clause (it isn't automatic). It is why I had advocated that Apple's guarantees be voided with his suspension last year. We still would have retained his rights but it would force Apple to earn every cent that would have come to him otherwise due to his draft position. What better way to incentivize a player to perform to the best and act accordingly that to force them to actually earn their money? If adversity strikes again and Apple reverts to being an immature child, we are stuck paying him regardless.
I'm also in agreement that Darnold  
Diver_Down : 7/30/2018 8:16 am : link
was the second choice (if he was ever thought to even be an option). The Jets moved up to 3 early in the process. If they were so in love with Darnold as their first choice, they would have mortgaged their future to move up to secure their first choice. Mayfield was never considered a #1 pick. The Jets thought they had moved up high enough to get their guy never considering that Darnold would fall and their guy is taken #1.
RE: Robbie  
Diver_Down : 7/30/2018 8:20 am : link
In comment 14024813 dep026 said:
Quote:
I can’t find kings article, but this should give you a better understanding that Darnold was always their guy... Jets love Darnold - ( New Window )


Nice supposition, but I suspect there never will be article that is written post-draft that will allude to the contrary. Such an easy sell that Jets could not believe their luck that a player fell to them.
RE: RE: Robbie  
dep026 : 7/30/2018 8:33 am : link
In comment 14024817 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14024813 dep026 said:


Quote:


I can’t find kings article, but this should give you a better understanding that Darnold was always their guy... Jets love Darnold - ( New Window )



Nice supposition, but I suspect there never will be article that is written post-draft that will allude to the contrary. Such an easy sell that Jets could not believe their luck that a player fell to them.


Or it could be their man fell to them. That was a pretty detailed article going back almost 2 years on how they scouted him.

Remember it took the Jets less than a minute to put their pick in during the draft.
I've heard Mayfield was their guy all along...  
Chris684 : 7/30/2018 9:03 am : link
Trading up only to #3 (and then staying at #3) seems to back that up considering throughout the process it was thought that Mayfield could of been had as low as #11 to the Dolphins. No one seriously thought Mayfield would go #1 until the night before/day of the draft.

No doubt they jumped on Darnold who was probably #2 on their board but I believe they really wanted Baker Mayfield.
The jets being the Jets  
PatersonPlank : 7/30/2018 9:22 am : link
Draft a player #3, at a position of extreme need for them, and then don't sign him over basically nothing. They are a mess.
RE: RE: RE: Robbie  
Diver_Down : 7/30/2018 9:23 am : link
In comment 14024825 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14024817 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 14024813 dep026 said:


Quote:


I can’t find kings article, but this should give you a better understanding that Darnold was always their guy... Jets love Darnold - ( New Window )



Nice supposition, but I suspect there never will be article that is written post-draft that will allude to the contrary. Such an easy sell that Jets could not believe their luck that a player fell to them.



Or it could be their man fell to them. That was a pretty detailed article going back almost 2 years on how they scouted him.

Remember it took the Jets less than a minute to put their pick in during the draft.


I'm not convinced that Darnold was their guy all along. Everyone fell in love with Darnold 2 years ago, then he proceeded to shit the bed tossing balls to opponents and dropping balls like it was a hot potato last year. There is no doubt that he was scouted and teams loved the player 2 years ago. I'm also of the belief that they felt there was no chance in drafting Darnold so they had shifted their focus to Mayfield. We can agree to disagree with the player ranking. Was Darnold #1 and Mayfield #2? Was Mayfield #1A and Darnold #1B? Was Mayfield #1 and Darnold #2? No one will reveal the Jets board. I'm of the belief that if Darnold was the clear cut #1 choice, then the Jets would have moved Heaven and Earth to guarantee their choice and not just settle for the third pick. Now, if their #1 choice was a player that no one thought had a chance in going #1 and (let's be honest, Mayfield was never a consideration of the Giants), then of course, they would be content in staying at 3 and picking their guy. With the tables turned, the Jets gladly took Darnold.
RE: I've heard Mayfield was their guy all along...  
NoPeanutz : 7/30/2018 9:45 am : link
In comment 14024838 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Trading up only to #3 (and then staying at #3) seems to back that up considering throughout the process it was thought that Mayfield could of been had as low as #11 to the Dolphins. No one seriously thought Mayfield would go #1 until the night before/day of the draft.

No doubt they jumped on Darnold who was probably #2 on their board but I believe they really wanted Baker Mayfield.

The Browns are the NFLs equivalent of Charlie Day.
Wildcard! (but without the playoffs)
RE: Maybe  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/30/2018 10:13 am : link
In comment 14024796 Mr. Nickels said:
Quote:
they expected to get Baker Mayfield and were too lazy to change the contract terms

Or maybe too cheap, lawyers cost money.

I think it's buyers remorse, who wants the face of the franchise to be some PED induced Barry Bonds lumpy head?
RE: Robbie  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/30/2018 10:20 am : link
In comment 14024813 dep026 said:
Quote:
I can’t find kings article, but this should give you a better understanding that Darnold was always their guy... Jets love Darnold - ( New Window )

I don't really buy it. The timing of everything and the position they traded to, when Darnold was the consensus #1 when they trade up suggests either it was Mayfield 1, Darnold 2 or 1a. Or maybe Darnold 1, Mayfield 1a. Definitely not Darnold 1 and Mayfield 2.
Regarding the why of the holdout  
Cenotaph : 7/30/2018 10:34 am : link
Mehta's argument that the whole thing is due to the agent arguing offset language doesn't make sense...if it's just the agent and the player is unhappy about that, the agent works for the player, so if Sam disagreed he could tell him to get it done. So I don't buy the story that poor Sam is being held back by a greedy agent - the agent likely doesn't have much additional to gain there.

It makes more sense to me that the issue would be linked to potential loss of guarantees due to fines/suspensions. Offset language is pretty standard I think - plus if the Jets cut him, it's likely he isn't getting a huge 2nd contract that would lead to a large difference in compensation. The money above what the Jets owed would likely be like a league-min contract. However, losing guarantees over the type of 'conduct detrimental to team' that has become more common lately (and is open to interpretation) would be a big blow to player/agent compensation wise. Just my 2 cents.
Maybe the major sticking contract point is the word Jets at the top  
PatersonPlank : 7/30/2018 10:47 am : link
Perhaps he didn't realize the Jets drafted him until he saw it in print.
When the Jets traded up  
JonC : 7/30/2018 11:24 am : link
the beat belief was the target was Mayfield, fwiw.
RE: Maybe the major sticking contract point is the word Jets at the top  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/30/2018 11:25 am : link
In comment 14024924 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Perhaps he didn't realize the Jets drafted him until he saw it in print.

I love it. Has total Jets clusterf*ck again written all over it.

RE: When the Jets traded up  
dep026 : 7/30/2018 11:26 am : link
In comment 14024955 JonC said:
Quote:
the beat belief was the target was Mayfield, fwiw.


I believe they were fine with mayfield thinking Darnold was going 1. When mayfield went 1, they got their guy.
RE: RE: Robbie  
dep026 : 7/30/2018 11:27 am : link
In comment 14024902 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14024813 dep026 said:


Quote:


I can’t find kings article, but this should give you a better understanding that Darnold was always their guy... Jets love Darnold - ( New Window )


I don't really buy it. The timing of everything and the position they traded to, when Darnold was the consensus #1 when they trade up suggests either it was Mayfield 1, Darnold 2 or 1a. Or maybe Darnold 1, Mayfield 1a. Definitely not Darnold 1 and Mayfield 2.


Again read the article. They were probably fine with mayfield at 3 and would have taken him no problem. Every article suggested that Darnold was their clear #1 but they didn’t think they could get him. When he was there, they literally took less than a minute to call it in.
RE: RE: RE: Robbie  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/30/2018 11:32 am : link
In comment 14024960 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14024902 Coach Red Beaulieu said:


Quote:


In comment 14024813 dep026 said:


Quote:


I can’t find kings article, but this should give you a better understanding that Darnold was always their guy... Jets love Darnold - ( New Window )


I don't really buy it. The timing of everything and the position they traded to, when Darnold was the consensus #1 when they trade up suggests either it was Mayfield 1, Darnold 2 or 1a. Or maybe Darnold 1, Mayfield 1a. Definitely not Darnold 1 and Mayfield 2.



Again read the article. They were probably fine with mayfield at 3 and would have taken him no problem. Every article suggested that Darnold was their clear #1 but they didn’t think they could get him. When he was there, they literally took less than a minute to call it in.

Obviously they loved Darnold so much they haven't bothered to sign him for training camp I guess.
They supposedly wanted Mayfield  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 7/30/2018 12:55 pm : link
but I'm sure they were pleased as punch with Darnold.

The idea that they were forced into picking a player that they didn't want is silly beyond all reason.

I'm certain when they traded to 3 there were 3 picks they would gave been happy with.

I'm also certain that they could have traded out with Darnold sitting on the board if they wanted to.

They took Darnold.
RE: They supposedly wanted Mayfield  
Matt M. : 7/30/2018 1:08 pm : link
In comment 14025086 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
but I'm sure they were pleased as punch with Darnold.

The idea that they were forced into picking a player that they didn't want is silly beyond all reason.

I'm certain when they traded to 3 there were 3 picks they would gave been happy with.

I'm also certain that they could have traded out with Darnold sitting on the board if they wanted to.

They took Darnold.
Yes and no. I think there were 2 guys they would have been happy with, Mayfield and Darnold. They may have expected Mayfield, but they certainly seemed happy with Darnold and wasted no time making the pick. Most people felt it was more likely Mayfield would be available at 3, but that doesn't mean that's who they preferred.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Robbie  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 7/30/2018 1:09 pm : link
Quote:
Obviously they loved Darnold so much they haven't bothered to sign him for training camp I guess.


So what is the suggestion here?

That the Jets used the third pick in the bloody draft on a player that they don't want?

Is that really your argument?

Sit down and think about how asinine that sounds for a few minutes. We'll wait.
RE: Regarding the why of the holdout  
Diver_Down : 7/30/2018 1:34 pm : link
In comment 14024914 Cenotaph said:
Quote:
Mehta's argument that the whole thing is due to the agent arguing offset language doesn't make sense...if it's just the agent and the player is unhappy about that, the agent works for the player, so if Sam disagreed he could tell him to get it done. So I don't buy the story that poor Sam is being held back by a greedy agent - the agent likely doesn't have much additional to gain there.

It makes more sense to me that the issue would be linked to potential loss of guarantees due to fines/suspensions. Offset language is pretty standard I think - plus if the Jets cut him, it's likely he isn't getting a huge 2nd contract that would lead to a large difference in compensation. The money above what the Jets owed would likely be like a league-min contract. However, losing guarantees over the type of 'conduct detrimental to team' that has become more common lately (and is open to interpretation) would be a big blow to player/agent compensation wise. Just my 2 cents.


To the contrary, the agent (CAA) works for Sam as a client, but they also have a stable of other clients and future clients. The terms that they negotiate for Sam can be used as a selling point to convince future clients in signing with them. Mayfield and Allen agreed to offset language. CAA doesn't want to yield to those terms. To think that Sam will get a vet min. deal if he busts and is cut is laughable. Mike Glennon was earning more in yearly salary last season(15M) than Eli Manning. It is the current QB market. If Sam flames out with the Jets, he'll get another chance with another team and not for vet min.

To bolster the argument that I made above, apparently Sammy and the Jets are coming to terms today. The contract will include the offset language that CAA wants and the Jets don't. I think the media ran with the "fines" red herring and fans interpreted it to mean low-level fines and not the traditional Conduct Detrimental to the Team forfeiture clause that is included in every player's contract.
Sam just wants to play (and get paid) - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Robbie  
fanofthejets : 7/30/2018 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14024817 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14024813 dep026 said:


Quote:


I can’t find kings article, but this should give you a better understanding that Darnold was always their guy... Jets love Darnold - ( New Window )



Nice supposition, but I suspect there never will be article that is written post-draft that will allude to the contrary. Such an easy sell that Jets could not believe their luck that a player fell to them.


If you've seen the reactions of their war room (especially the owner and GM the second it happened) it seemed pretty genuine. They bluffed the Browns into taking Mayfield and then pretty much just had to pray the Giants would take a running back. It worked out. Rarely do things work out like this for us...but it did.
Brain was thinking faster than my fingers could type.  
Diver_Down : 7/30/2018 3:05 pm : link
[quoute] include the offset language that CAA wants and the Jets don't.[/quote]

Should be the other way around. The Jets want the offset language and CAA doesn't.
RE: I've heard Mayfield was their guy all along...  
mrvax : 7/30/2018 5:18 pm : link
In comment 14024838 Chris684 said:
Quote:
No one seriously thought Mayfield would go #1 until the night before/day of the draft.

No doubt they jumped on Darnold who was probably #2 on their board but I believe they really wanted Baker Mayfield.


Dave Te (NFLscouting) was sure Mayfield was the Browns guy after they got Tyrod Taylor.
Yes they are  
The Tempest : 8/3/2018 8:46 pm : link
It takes an extraordinary level of dysfunction to be in the NY market and fail. Jets are consoled with the fact they are not the only dysfunctional sports team in the area. Jets fans however tend to be also fans of the other dysfunctional teams: Mets, Nets & Knicks
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