it is resolved one way or the other. But I would take Eli and his two SBs any day over Rivers and his HoF credentials (with no championships to show for it).
He'll be in the Hall with the third trophy. But, he could still get in even without it. I think he needs to have a good season this year, just to prove that he can still play.
highlight show which has coincidentally led to their downfall since they don’t ever use critical thinking. If you aren’t breaking ankles, doing backflips, or dunking ESPN isn’t interested.
The debate of Eli being a HoFer on BBI is tiresome so I won’t even get into that and waste my time there anymore.
Is he doesn’t have many pro bowls but yet frank gore has 1 more and no postseason success and yet somehow He’s in.
He’s going to get in eventually even if it takes some years.
Yeah, but Frank Gore will almost certainly finish 4th on the all time rushing list. It should be hard not to put a guy who ranks top 5 in his most significant statistical category in the HOF.
Phillip Rivers will finish with the longest active streak of consecutive starts among QBs, second only to Favre.
But at least we got to find out for certain that Geno Smith was not the future of the franchise.
Its just shocking to me someone would have Rivers in but not Eli Â
If he had only one, would we be saying he needs TWO to certainly get in?? LOL
The guy has two, and was front and center (particularly the 2nd game) in winning those games. Not to mention how he played during the rest of those playoff runs.
1. Win another championship, Automatic. Especially since it would be with a different coach and none of the same players. Only common denominator would be Eli.
2. Three more 4000 yard seasons (or close to 4000 yards). That would put him past Marino for total yards. Then he is in but might have to sweat it
HOF is nice for the player, but it doesn't mean a lot to me as a fan. The Lombardis are the thing. Eli got us two, I'm good with his career whether they take him for the Hall of Fame or not. It's a fun thing to talk about among fans, though, and I'm all for fun. So here goes:
I think the next couple of years will decide the argument. Eli has a stud RB, a stud WR, a stud receiving TE, the line seems better, the coach is a quarterback whisperer -- he has been surrounded with a better football support system. If he does something like 55% completions and double-digit interceptions for a couple of years, with the Giants basically at .500, the naysayers will have more ammunition. If he does 66%+ completions, lots of TDs and the Giants are 10+ wins and make a deep playoff run, it's going to be much harder to say no to him.
The media tends to focus on his negatives, which are many for a HoF QB. But, in time two SB wins and MVP awards tend to mean more as memories focus on the positives.
Eli has two of them, and each of them occurred during the last possession of a Super Bowl where he was losing, and led a TD drive to win.
The odds of that happening have to be in the millions. So many things have to align.
I don't give a shit if he gets in the Hall of Fame or not. No one is taking those two games away from me, and those two games outweigh entire careers of other QBs who are already in the Hall of Fame.
as an Eli/Giants fan that the offensive line has been so atrocious for so long that the offense hasn't even had a chance. One of Eli's best assets was his convincing play-action. When was the last time the Giants could even use that play effectively?
deserve to get into the hall of fame some day IMO. There are some glaring differences though which explain why many feel Eli should never get in:
Career completion %: Eli - 59.8%; Ben - 64.1%; Rivers 64.2%
Career INTs: Eli - 228; Ben - 174; Rivers - 166
Career Passer Rating: Eli - 83.5; Ben - 94.0; Rivers - 94.8
as I think he's got at least two more active years left in him. This offense might make him shine, who knows?! He could end his career on a good note, it's not finished yet. I think he's currently a marginal addition and also not a first ballot, unless he wins another Super Bowl. I do think he'll get in some day. He's top ten all-time in most major passing categories. Some could say that's because of longevity, but He's had some great years and obviously two superb playoff runs ending with the ultimate prize. He's a two-time Super Bowl MVP for a reason.
I think he can really make a difference in the discussion over the next few years. With that said, I think DG set him up for success and having Pat Shurmur on the sidelines calling plays will only help him IMO.
that biased journalists like Gary Myers have a vote. Eli could throw 6,000 yards 60 td's 0 int's, go 16-0 and win the SB MVP again and Myers still wouldn't vote for him.
Belong in the Hall of Fame. Eli’s career numbers will all be in the top 10 and he’s already got 2 super bowl MVP’s. Way the hell better career than Namath and others.
Honestly, Eli will get voted into the HOF and then there will be articles popping up time to time about how he doesn’t belong in the HOF lol....UNLESS, he wins another SB. The fact that this alone will silence the babbling idiots says something about how HOF worthy his resume already is.
that biased journalists like Gary Myers have a vote. Eli could throw 6,000 yards 60 td's 0 int's, go 16-0 and win the SB MVP again and Myers still wouldn't vote for him.
His vote may have gone the way of the Daily News by the time Eli is eligible.
I would be so thrilled to see him have at least another high level season or two. I don't think it needs to be a superbowl, but a year or two of really good Top 10 QB type production to clear out the stink of the last few years would be so much fun. So tired of hearing the current narrative about him. Would love to see him put it in everyone's face.
I would be so thrilled to see him have at least another high level season or two. I don't think it needs to be a superbowl, but a year or two of really good Top 10 QB type production to clear out the stink of the last few years would be so much fun. So tired of hearing the current narrative about him. Would love to see him put it in everyone's face.
Because the people who vote for the HoF are largely split on whether Eli is good QB or a lucky one. I am not, he should be a lock according me, but I don't vote and neither do you. I think this year is the deal maker or breaker for Eli. If he succeeds, I think people will accept the argument about bad OL and the teams around him. If he has a year close to last year, the last five years will be on him, right or wrong, in the eyes of voters. Is what it is.
I'm pretty sure that damning stat would be used to say Eli doesn't belong.
Brett Favre also led the league in that stat and has 336 for his illustrious HOF career too. I don't think the INT stats should be used against him, but we know there will be those that do.
I'm pretty sure that damning stat would be used to say Eli doesn't belong.
Eli belongs. I watched the guy play. In the biggest of spots, under the most duress, he came up huge. LOVE HIM. You are aware of his league wide and media perception though? I know you are smart enough to separate your feelings about him to understand the existing narrative about our guy during his entire career. More than any other QB I can remember, there has been an ongoing argument about whether he is even good, among players in the league and the people that cover the sport. Stupid I know, but that is reality.
that any 2 time SB MVP who played more than a handful of years belongs.
Any argument used against Eli can be used to point to another HoF player.
Kurt Warner is in with a brief period of greatness
Bob Griese was considered mediocre outside of his titles
I already referenced the Namath stats, and he's in because he won a historic game. Seriously - a guy throws more INT's thn TD's 11 out of 13 years and is a HoF guy??
Win one more championship and the guy gets a head mounted on NFL’s Mount Rushmore.
Why exactly is Rivers a HOFer but Eli isn’t?
People are hyper focused on Eli’s weak areas or downturns in his career more than any other player going. It’s as simple as that. Eli has sore spots in his career I have no problem acknowledging that but here’s the thing that drives me nuts: rivers, brees even Big Ben also have sore spots.
I've never been able to find anyone who is a close comparison. His performances have varied so much over the years between incredible and terrible. He had two playoff runs for the ages, but stunk up the joint in playoff losses. Never quite had the kind of regular season numbers his contemporaries have (and please spare me the all-time passing catergories. It's pointless to compare players from earlier eras who played in much, much less passer-friendly conditions). Rarely has been considered a top 5 QB in the league in any given season.
It kind of depends on what you value as a HOF voter - moments of greatness or overall body of work.
You have to add to that that he elevated the status of AFL in the eyes of the fans and owners and effectively got every player in both leagues a significant pay raise.
I've never been able to find anyone who is a close comparison. His performances have varied so much over the years between incredible and terrible. He had two playoff runs for the ages, but stunk up the joint in playoff losses. Never quite had the kind of regular season numbers his contemporaries have (and please spare me the all-time passing catergories. It's pointless to compare players from earlier eras who played in much, much less passer-friendly conditions). Rarely has been considered a top 5 QB in the league in any given season.
It kind of depends on what you value as a HOF voter - moments of greatness or overall body of work.
Bullshit - he didn't "stunk up the place" on the playoff loss to the Green Bay Packers. He showed up. The rest of the team didn't .
I've never been able to find anyone who is a close comparison. His performances have varied so much over the years between incredible and terrible. He had two playoff runs for the ages, but stunk up the joint in playoff losses. Never quite had the kind of regular season numbers his contemporaries have (and please spare me the all-time passing catergories. It's pointless to compare players from earlier eras who played in much, much less passer-friendly conditions). Rarely has been considered a top 5 QB in the league in any given season.
It kind of depends on what you value as a HOF voter - moments of greatness or overall body of work.
Eli has been more consistent than common belief though. He’s had two poor seasons, 2013 and 2017 and a bunch of productive seasons albeit he’s been prone to the turnover and nearly all of them.
Pick a random season. More than likely the team won 8 plus games and Eli threw for 4200 yards and 26 tds. Mix in the 2 amazing runs and the 3-4 very good regular seasons. It’s probably good enough for canton but I’d like to see Eli flash 2 more good seasons of play. Doesn’t need a ring, just a nice two seasons of play. Let’s say 19 wins combined and one 1-2 playoff wins. Do that he’s a lock but not first ballot.
I’m of the belief that the giants franchise and Eli doesn’t necessarily need super bowl wins these next few years. They just need to win games and get back to January.
If we are arguing if should be in. Yes... I'm done, fuck you if don't understand why, you are a moron.
If we are arguing whether or not he will get in, that's a completely different discussion. Articles like the one from ESPN are not helpful for certain.
breaking down the weapons of the 04 class. Makes a strong argument that Rivers and Ben have consistently had more to work with, and doesn't even get into Ben and those Pittsburgh defenses.
That was the best team in the league, and the path to the Super Bowl was as manageable as you could hope for. A Giants-Steelers Super Bowl that year would have been incredible...if you recall their regular season game in Pittsburgh that year was one of the games of the season leaguewide.
And then douchebag goes and shoots himself in the leg.
In Griese's two Super Bowl seasons, he threw for under 100 yards in four of six games. 121 and 159 in other two, so it makes it hard to say exactly how good Griese was when the Dolphins played such a run heavy offense.
The Hall of Fame has made enough mistakes of letting players in who shouldn't. But Eli is more borderline than some of those players so that will help.
Personally, I wouldn't put him in. I wouldn't put Warner in either. I wouldn't have put Namath in. I wouldn't put Aikman in - his numbers for the talent around him are very mediocre.
IMO stats can not be the main argument for or against a guy. The point of the game is to win games and to win titles.
Matt Stafford has better numbers than Troy Aikman. Anyone that tries to tell me Stafford is a better QB than Aikman can fuck off, because the whole world has gone crazy at that point.
The media tends to focus on his negatives, which are many for a HoF QB. But, in time two SB wins and MVP awards tend to mean more as memories focus on the positives.
I agree especially with how many WRs and TEs he's lost. However this Oline MUST grow to average and Eli must take advantage. Then the years of shit Olines must be hammered home, proving what Eli was up against.
and that's the rub. You can't say for some HoF QB's it is the winning that matters and then leave a 2 time SB MVP out.
You can't say Namath is in for his flash and win against the Colts and say Manning isn't. Same as your Aikman example.
It is unfortunate that any publication would say Rivers is a HoF'er and Eli isn't.
One point of greatness is to excel at the biggest times. Eli has. I won't fault Rivers for never getting the chance, but on the flip side, you can't take away those who have.
Like I said above, Eli checks off the box of any perceived negative, either through superior stats in relation or with a QB already in who is bested in the category by Eli
know if he has enough respect across all the people who have votes to get in. as the article notes and mentioned in this thread, he is a polarizing player - clark kent in the regular season and superman in the playoffs (one of only 4 players to win the super bowl MVP twice - brady, Montana, and bradshaw being the others and a 15 TD:2 INT ratio in the playoffs).
Eli had the worst support in the last few years. No running game, subpar OL and receivers hurt constantly. I wonder what his record would be if that was not the case.
Namath is pretty clearly the worst QB in the Hall Â
The Hall of Fame is supposed to be the highest possible individual honor a player can receive - I don't think it's the place for rationalizations about offensive lines, coaching, etc. Either you did enough to be in or you did not.
I've said on other threads about the HOF that if I were running it if would be extremely hard to get in. Basically, just ask the question aloud: Is X a Hall of Famer? Any answer than an immediate and unambiguous "YES!" is a no. It's supposed to be the smallest, most elite group possible...players indistinguishable from one another in their excellence. If it were up to me there would be only four or five QBs in the HOF - Montana, Unitas, Brady, Graham...the gods.
He'll be in the Hall with the third trophy. But, he could still get in even without it. I think he needs to have a good season this year, just to prove that he can still play.
Funny because the bar keeps moving. They used to say that about him getting his second.
IMO stats can not be the main argument for or against a guy. The point of the game is to win games and to win titles.
Matt Stafford has better numbers than Troy Aikman. Anyone that tries to tell me Stafford is a better QB than Aikman can fuck off, because the whole world has gone crazy at that point.
Aikman was certainly a talent. But has there ever been a QB with more talent on both sides of the ball? Maybe Bradshaw? And Aikman still only broke 20 TDs in a season 1X with 23. His next career high is 19. His lifetime QBR is 81.
Let me tell you something, a ton of QBs could have thrived with the Dallas team.
Sorry, but his numbers are pedestrian. You have to have more than rings to get in. There has to be some individual accomplishment on a season by season basis that stand out - in my book.
Eli is 57% YES for the Hall of Fame (after 38,000 votes).
Rivers is 51% (after about 35,000 votes).
I'm not sure Eli will ever get in. But I'm pretty sure Rivers won't get in before Eli.
(Ben will get in well before either Eli or Rivers, because the media figures who vote for it adore Ben.)
I just wonder how much of the voting process is qualitative stuff. In ten years from now, Roethlisberger will simply be remembered as being an elite QB more so than either Eli or Rivers.
as a metric to grade any QB in the NFL, it's going to be hard to do so unless you're willing to break down surrounding talent/head coach/offensive system.
It's really that way with any player in the NFL as that player is always on the field with 10 other men he's relying on in one way or another.
I think the NBA is the clearest cut league where you can equate winning to individual performance.
The easiest case to make for Eli is that he's been a terrific regular season QB who has been as reliable and durable as anyone not named Brett Favre. In the playoffs, and really just in general Eli was able to lift his game to another level in the most clutch moments. His performances in his two NFC title games and Super Bowls are legendary.
would put him in even if he never played another game. But I think he'll get in as long as he's good during the last few years of his career. He doesn't have to win another ring. A few more good years, and his statistics along with the 2SB MVPs will be too much for the voters to ignore.
People should also remember that Kevin Gilbride's offense emphasized throwing the ball downfield. I leave it to others with a better knowledge of statistics, but my recollection is that for many years under KG, the Giants were at or near the top in passes that traveled more than 20 yards in the air. Longer passes obviously increase the chance of an incompletion or interception.
But people act like eli has never been good as Ben. You swear that Ben never had a bad year or games according to some here.
Why do you have to twist what really is being said.
"...swear Ben never had a bad game..."
Pointing out the obvious, that Ben has better numbers across the board and has been much more consistent does not say "swear Ben never had a bad game".
Thats just weak.
Bens career QB rating is 94. Eli has NEVER had even one season with a 94 rating.
Does that mean Ben never had a bad game? No. It means he's consistently outplayed Eli.
that any 2 time SB MVP who played more than a handful of years belongs.
Any argument used against Eli can be used to point to another HoF player.
Kurt Warner is in with a brief period of greatness
Bob Griese was considered mediocre outside of his titles
I already referenced the Namath stats, and he's in because he won a historic game. Seriously - a guy throws more INT's thn TD's 11 out of 13 years and is a HoF guy??
Every 2 time SB MVP is in the HoF
George Blanda is in the HoF!!
I agree with you. Just wondering if Trent Dilfer or Nick foles won just one more SB, would they be in the HOF?
Do you think that part of the reason for their QB ratings can be attributed to differences regarding responsibility within or complexity of offensive systems?
The Hall of Fame is supposed to be the highest possible individual honor a player can receive - I don't think it's the place for rationalizations about offensive lines, coaching, etc. Either you did enough to be in or you did not.
Agreed.
Eli is a unique case. He’s also still playing. Let these next 2-3 seasons marinate.
that any 2 time SB MVP who played more than a handful of years belongs.
Any argument used against Eli can be used to point to another HoF player.
Kurt Warner is in with a brief period of greatness
Bob Griese was considered mediocre outside of his titles
I already referenced the Namath stats, and he's in because he won a historic game. Seriously - a guy throws more INT's thn TD's 11 out of 13 years and is a HoF guy??
Every 2 time SB MVP is in the HoF
George Blanda is in the HoF!!
I agree with you. Just wondering if Trent Dilfer or Nick foles won just one more SB, would they be in the HOF?
Trent dilfer wasn’t A good to very good starting qb for the better part of 15 years. He was a caretaker most of the time, an upstart once or twice early on, and a liability at other moments.
Roethlisberger has played on a far more talented team for the majority of his career. I would love to see someone who is not as lazy as I am break down each seasons rushing stats and rankings, defensive rankings, and team expectations. How many times have the majority of experts picked the Giants to make the playoffs let alone be championship contenders? Maybe once during Eli's career. The Steelers are routinely among the favorites in the AFC and have the luxury of playing in a much weaker division.
put the caveat that any QB with 2 SB MVP's who played more than a handful of seasons should be in:
Quote:
Just wondering if Trent Dilfer or Nick foles won just one more SB, would they be in the HOF
While Dilfer played 13 seasons, he was only a fulltime starter for 4 years - 5 if you count a season with the Browns. He'd still need to be SB MVP two other times:) But in that case, you'd have to believe he's in
Foles would be trickier. He's never played a full 16 games as a starter and he's already 28. But if he ends up going to say the Chargers to replace Rivers and leads them to a SB as the MVP, playing 3-5 years there. He'd be in too. I would think.
No I don't. That was the knock on Ben early. They may have kept it simple for him to keep him from hurting the team as a rookie.
I also don't agree with your 2011 MVP comment. Rodgers was more valuable. Come on. Rodgers had the highest QB rating ever that year. And with Rodgers it sure isn't all about the stats. He carries his team.
MVP is a reg season award. Eli wasn't close to Rodgers.
In 2011, the defense was the story. They played great down the stretch to get us in and dominated in playoffs.
Now I know you're going to point to the defensive numbers for the season (and they had some terrible games). But the play in the last 5-6 games was exceptional. And the playoffs were outstanding.
2011 was Eli's best year but he didn't carry the team.
I'd vote for Eli and Ben. Rivers is close, but he'd get a no from me. He had some great Chargers teams and couldn't cut it. When you're close, the rings matter. Eli wouldn't get my vote if he was ringless. But the longevity and rings get him in. People point to him only being a top three QB once (2011), but he was the best QB in the post-season both times the Giants won the Super Bowl. That matters.
However, I'm not convinced Eli does actually get in. I think Ben is more of a sure thing.
On one side they claim Eli's stats aren't HOF worth despite being in the top 10 in most categories. The same people who voted for Aikman because he won 3 SB's won't vote for ELi, who has two, because of his stats. Meanwhile Aikman career high for td passes was 23! He never threw more than 19 in any other season. I know it was a different era but these writers need to take into account the talent on the teams. What Eli has done without a great offensive line, defense, or running game during his entire career is incredible. Had Eli been on the Steelers his entire career his numbers would look much different.
No I don't. That was the knock on Ben early. They may have kept it simple for him to keep him from hurting the team as a rookie.
I also don't agree with your 2011 MVP comment. Rodgers was more valuable. Come on. Rodgers had the highest QB rating ever that year. And with Rodgers it sure isn't all about the stats. He carries his team.
MVP is a reg season award. Eli wasn't close to Rodgers.
In 2011, the defense was the story. They played great down the stretch to get us in and dominated in playoffs.
Now I know you're going to point to the defensive numbers for the season (and they had some terrible games). But the play in the last 5-6 games was exceptional. And the playoffs were outstanding.
2011 was Eli's best year but he didn't carry the team.
I can't understand how you could Eli didn't carry that team. Sure the defense picked up over the final few games but Eli was the reason they were still in it. That was Eli's best season and it's even more incredible with the pitiful protection that he had along with the worst running game in the league.
Is he offense and ST really carried the giants that day.
Giants had the ball for 37 minutes.
Patriots average starting position was the 18 yard line.
Patriots scored on 3 of 7 drives and would have been a 4th if not for Brady missing a WIDE OPEN Welker that would have ended the game.
People sometimes see a number yet fail to divulge what caused the number to happen.
I've been down this path before. The 2011 defense had some of the worst games ever (NO and GB). However a loss is a loss. They also played outstanding in 2 losses (Was and Phi).
Check out the wins. The defense played well in almost every one including the game at NE (holding NE to the lowest point total in many years at home). The 2011 season wasn't about a QB carrying a team to wins.
The defense had many injuries. As they got healthy they played excellent ball and you saw it in the win total.
And that certainly wasn't the case in the playoffs when the defense shut down 2 of the best offenses of all time.
was so well regarded that it took him 6 years to get into the Hall.
It took Charles Haley close to 10 years. It took Ken Stabler over 30 years. It took Lynn Swann over 20 years.
I can never put my finger on the inconsistent nature of the selection process.
I find one thing interesting about that Steeler era. When they keep putting players in from those teams doesn't it diminish the others players already in? For example if you keep putting players on that offense in, doesn't it diminish what Bradshaw did or vice versa for the defense?
Personally, I think he gets in eventually. But he has had some very mediocre seasons, which will give some voters pause and likely delay his entry for a few years. I think this season will be a factor. He has weapons and if the protection is decent...then there are really few excuses for a bad year if he has one.
Ultimately, the Giants drafted Eli because they felt he could win them Superbowls. He did and that is really all that matters.
differing opinions on playing excellently in losses.
Quote:
Jay
KWALL2 : 4:28 pm : link : reply
I've been down this path before. The 2011 defense had some of the worst games ever (NO and GB). However a loss is a loss. They also played outstanding in 2 losses (Was and Phi).
We lost to the Redskins twice. Once giving up 28 points and the other giving up 23 points. In the 23 point game, we gave up 123 rushing yards and 300 yards total.
In the Eagles loss, we gave up 127 rushing yards and 325 total yards.
If you give up 100+ yards on the ground, you didn't play outstanding.
I found a couple old posts of mine that are similar to what you're asking
The Steelers had a Top 3 scoring defense in 6/14 seasons and a Top 10 scoring defense in 9/14
The Giants have had a Top 3 scoring defense in 1/14 seasons, and a Top 10 scoring defense in 2/14 seasons.
The major difference between Ben and Eli is that the non-QB Steelers have been much better than the non-QB Giants over that span.
Ben misses games almost every year, and yet the Steelers don't fall off a cliff when that happens. Since they both took over the job to start a season (2005), Ben has only played a full season 3 times.
Since 2005 when Ben entered the season as the starter, the Steelers with back-up QBs are 13-10, a 54.5% of their games, which averages to 9.04 wins per season.
Those QB?
Charlie Batch: 9 starts
Tommy Maddox: 2 starts
Dennis Dixon: 3 starts
Byron Leftwich: 1 start
Michael Vick: 3 starts
Landry Jones: 5 starts
Meanwhile, since 2005, Eli Manning is 110-97, a 53.1% win percentage that averages out to 8.5 wins per year.
p
Foles would be trickier. He's never played a full 16 games as a starter and he's already 28. But if he ends up going to say the Chargers to replace Rivers and leads them to a SB as the MVP, playing 3-5 years there. He'd be in too. I would think.
But that's a lot of hypotheticals.
Right, and to take our little hypothetical (and ridiculous) scenarios to a new level... let's say Foles comes in at the end of the year again after another injury to Wentz. He wins another SB and then after that he fizzles out or gets a career ending injury. Now the guy has two SB victories on his resume but nothing more than that.
I suppose this is why winning a SB is important but is not the MOST important thing when determining whether someone gets into the HOF when it really is a team sport.
The defense was not the story in 2011. The defense blew for most of that season. There were plenty of wins where the defense only needed one stop and didn't get it, only to have Eli save their ass (I was at one of those in New England).
The 2011 Giants were 25th in the NFL in points allowed with 400 (25 PPG). That team is the only Super Bowl champion in history to concede that many points.
the defense played great in the Super Bowl, though Â
Player B
51,065 yards (8 all time)
329 TDs (9 all time)
2x SB champion
6x Pro Bowl 1x SB MVP.
But one is a lock and the other is out? I guess Eli’s 4 Pro Bowls “pales in comparison” to Ben’s 6 Pro Bowls?
2 Pro Bowls is the difference I guess? Come on
Especially since they acknowledge Eli’s “legendary”
Just to sum - the guy will more all time pass yards and TDs and more SB MVPs and the legendary playoff career is not the “lock”
Ben has 0 Super Bowl MVPs.
He was complete dogshit in his first Super Bowl win (when the officials teamed up with the Steelers to defeat the Seahawks), and Santonio Holmes won the MVP in Super Bowl XLIII (against the Cardinals).
The one where the defense held Brady to his lowest point total in a decade. That one?
I was. You know...the one where Eli led an 85 yard TD drive to take a 17-13 lead with 3 minutes left, only for the special teams to give NE the ball at the 36 on the kickoff, and then for the defense to let Brady go 64 yards in 1:18 to take the lead 20-17. Didn't matter, because Eli took the Giants 80 yards in 1:17 to win it with a TD to Ballard. And the entire fucking stadium knew he was going to do it as soon as he got the ball. You never heard a more nervous crowd.
Yeah, that one. But I guess the defense should be credited because they held Brady to 20 points. I guess the two critical TDs Eli threw in the final 3 minutes were because of the defense.
They held the Patriots to 14 and 17 points. What am I missing here?
First one I agree 100%
2nd I’d argue that the offense ball control and giving NE poor field position as reason for the low point total. Pats scored in 3 of 7 drives and one that they didn’t Brady missed a wide open welker that would have ended the game. Pats only had the ball for 22 minutes and pretty much went up and down the field all game.
The giants had seven possession of 7 plays or more and the pats average field position was the 18 yard line. I would agree tuck and Blackburn made some great plays but the unit as a whole didn’t dominate the Pats like Kwall is suggesting.
I'll say this about Eli - he ain't perfect and I've seen better QBs... Â
but if Jacksonville had Eli Manning at quarterback instead of Blake Bortles everyone from northern Maine to Hartford, CT would have been shitting blood in the week leading up the AFC title game last year.
I'm a Giant fan and a giant Eli fan. I will go by the old cliche that I don't know how to explain what a HOFer is but I know one when I see one and Phillip Rivers is not one. He's not close to one. Hall of FAME. Not hall of stats. That's why Gale Sayers is in. That's why Joe Namath is in. That's exactly why Eli Manning should be in. The franchise player for the NY Giants with 2 Super Bowl wins and Super Bowl MVP's plus top 10 in most QB stats. First ballot? no. The Jim Brown LT wing of the HOF (for on field play not off field) no. But in yes for sure.
NE was one of the best offenses of all time in 2011 Â
he had two exceptional drives to win it. And he had to do it again in the Super Bowl.
And there were other games that season where Eli pulled a rabbit out of a hat after the defense fell apart in the fourth quarter. He brought the Giants back from 28-17 against Green Bay, only to have the defense give up 10 points in the last 3 minutes. They gave up a late TD to Vince Young and the Eagles in a 17-10 loss. In Dallas they entered the 4th quarter up 22-20, only to have the defense promptly give up 14 points. Eli cleaned up their mess with 2 TDs in the last 3 minutes. Just like in New England.
That defense sucked, I'm sorry. You could never count on them to get a stop when they needed it, and twice over the course of the season they were bailed out in huge spots by bad passes (Romo to Austin and Brady to Welker).
In their 13 total wins that season, Eli made HUGE COCK plays to win 7 of them in the fourth quarter...including the H-O-R-S-E - level throw to Manningham in the Super Bowl.
you won't find too many finer seasons from a QB than Eli's 2011 campaign. We all know about his heroics just to get us into the playoffs, but he then proceeded to set NFL records for yards and touchdowns in a single postseason en route to a championship.
If you want to make the tired "defense carried him" argument, you're better off heading to a Steelers site. Big Ben - who I also respect as a great QB - routinely played with top three NFL defenses in the first half of his career. Not sure Eli's ever had a top 10 defense to rely on, except the 11-5 season two years ago.
Funny how people think Eli's rep is based solely on his Super Bowl wins. In reality, the rep of the Giants defense has been GREATLY enhanced by a couple of Brady beatdowns, too.
Go look at Green Bay that year. I'm pretty confident with a Matt Flynn-esque QB they could have won 9 or 10 games and still made the playoffs.
Their offensive stats outside of Eli throwing for nearly 5,000 yards were so pathetic I think 4 wins would have been a stretch. Eli played out of his mind that year.
"They gave up a late TD to Vince Young and the Eagles in a 17-10 loss"
That's good stuff.
They gave up one TD in that game. The other was a 10 yard drive.
They had 3 TOs
Eli fumbled in the red zone with a minute left of a 1 score game.
But the D was the problem there?
Amazing.
No fan of football, looks at the NYG Super Bowl wins and thinks Eli. The NE offense was one of the best ever. We held them to 14 and 17. Thats why they won. That wasn't about the QB.
Borderline all the way. Not a fan of compilers like Cal Ripken. Â
Certainly a lot by me. But there has never been anything close to the level of dumbness that no one thinks of Eli Manning when they think of Super Bowl 42 & 46 and nothing anyone ever posts here will top that.
No one thinks of Derek Jeter when they think of the late 90’s Yankees. They think about the bullpen.
"They gave up a late TD to Vince Young and the Eagles in a 17-10 loss"
That's good stuff.
They gave up one TD in that game. The other was a 10 yard drive.
They had 3 TOs
Eli fumbled in the red zone with a minute left of a 1 score game.
But the D was the problem there?
Amazing.
No fan of football, looks at the NYG Super Bowl wins and thinks Eli. The NE offense was one of the best ever. We held them to 14 and 17. Thats why they won. That wasn't about the QB.
Yeah, I never see that Tyree play when Superbowl 42 is mentioned.
In both games, the defense could not get a stop when needed. And in both games, Eli provided the winning score via a play that would rank amongst the greatest plays ever.
If we're going to downplay Eli Manning's contributions to Super Bowls 42 and 46, then nothing on earth makes any sense anymore.
Eli needs a top season: QBR of 100; deep into playoffs; Division Champ Â
I say this ONLY because we live in the FF era now.
Eli has FOUR guys that can not be covered "1 on 1" by most teams:
1. OBJ - he demands double teaming else he'll eat you up alive.
2. Saquon - he is going to catch a lot of balls against linebackers AND against safeties.
3. Engram - he will be running free down the seem an awful lot due to the attention OBJ and Saquon receive.
4. Shepard - as a slot guy, he is going to have his " break out" party this year.
We, of course, need to stay healthy and if we do Eli has no excuses this year.
Is also interesting how many, including Giants fans, like to prop up the defense vs. Brady but no one likes to mention how Eli twice won a chess match against arguably the greatest defensive mind the game has ever seen. A man who had one of his defensive gameplans literally sent to Canton, OH.
You can just hear that old clip of Bill telling his defense it’s a Cruz and Nicks game and then Eli drops one in the bucket for Manningham basically for the win.
What Eli did in 2011, all you have to do is laugh.
Defense had a few good games at the end of the year. JPP was a beast that year... but the rest were underwhelming.
Eli was 30-40 in the SB. That’s insane and kept NE off the field for the majority of the game. Cause good thing he did because we really didn’t stop NE all game outside some poorly thrown balls by Brady.
KWALL has been diminishing both of Eli's runs. And it is hilarious. He has no problem calling two games that the D gives up 120+ yards rushing as "outstanding", do we need to rehash the ridiculousness of his claims that Eli was an Asante Samuel dropped INT from choking one SB and carried by the D in the other?
Hell, we are talking about a poster who said Eli was a game manager in the playoffs while Mark Sanchez did more in two failed Jets runs.
“Defense had a few good games at the end of the year. “
And by diminish on this thread you mean don’t agree he:
1. Was MVP of 201 over Rodgers
2. Carried the team to the SB.
3.. Was the main factor in the SB run of 2007 or 2011
4. On the same level as BR with the HOF resume
If that is it, then yes. I don’t agree, That’s me.
got a fingertip on a ball he leapt as high as he could for.
Why don't we just say the D was bailed out by Brady missing Welker if that the fucking angle being taken?
But you don't have much middle ground. Instead of saying Eli and the D both played great, you've actually taken the asinine approach that eli was a "game manager" in the SB runs. You even have said he managed and took a back seat to the D.
A truly, truly moronic take. That you continue to stand by.
I mean when an otherwise reasonable poster takes a stance like that one has to wonder what the fucking motivation is? A history of trying to minimize Eli's accomplishments is just imbecelic
“Defense had a few good games at the end of the year. “
And by diminish on this thread you mean don’t agree he:
1. Was MVP of 201 over Rodgers
2. Carried the team to the SB.
3.. Was the main factor in the SB run of 2007 or 2011
4. On the same level as BR with the HOF resume
If that is it, then yes. I don’t agree, That’s me.
As far as number 1 - I had no problem with Rodgers being MVP, but I also think Eli had a MVP type year.
2. He was our best player that year and won many games for us and was absolutely OUTSTANDING in the playoffs.
3. 2007 he was not the main factor, but he did step up in the playoffs. 2011 - he was the main factor. His 2011 playoffs was one of the best ever by a QB if you consider the quality of competition that he played.
4. BR is still immensely overrated here. Yes, Eli has thrown more INTs and Ben competes a higher % percentage. Eli has reamined healthier and has played on lesser teams. In fact, with the talent surrounded by Ben - maybe they should have won more! Ben's lowest may not be as bad as Eli, but Eli's 2007 playoff run and all of 2011 is something that Ben has not produced.
when you have to make claims like the D played "outstanding" in games they gave up over 120+ yards rushing (and losses), you really have to wonder what the big fish is at the end of the argument.
You've literally tried to say that the D played outstanding in two regular season losses while maintaining the Eli was just along for the ride.
That's how far gone this debate is. Focusing on propping up the D in regular season losses
There are 16 teams per conference and at least 3 QBs make the pro-bowl every year. Some years 4-5 QBs can make it.
Roughly 18-31% of all QBs make the pro-bowl every year.
In a 14 year career, Eli only has 4 pro-bowl appearances.
Not exactly a glowing endorsement for an event that's not very difficult to get elected.
There are 16 teams per conference and at least 3 QBs make the pro-bowl every year. Some years 4-5 QBs can make it.
Roughly 18-31% of all QBs make the pro-bowl every year.
In a 14 year career, Eli only has 4 pro-bowl appearances.
Not exactly a glowing endorsement for an event that's not very difficult to get elected.
Cause a year when Eli threw for 4400 yards and 30 TDs to 14 INTs wasnt good enough to get in but Andy Dalton who threw for 3400 yards 19 TDs and 17 INTs did.
He saw it. It was an easy one especially for a guy like him with good hands. He saw it. Had time to gather and jump. Just because it was above his head doesn’t equal tough catch. He saw it. It was an easy catch.
The Welker miss? Thta was another easy catch. Walker missed it. Not Brady. Terrible adjustment on a ball he saw. He had several steps to adjust. Reached back and dropped it.
But thtat is just one play. If NE makes the play what does that mean? Win or lose? The NYG defense setill played well and kept a great offense well below their normal point total.
But thtat is just one play. If NE makes the play what does that mean? Win or lose? The NYG defense setill played well and kept a great offense well below their normal point total.
1. Yes, if he makes the catch - we lose.
2. Defense didnt play well. It played alright. Offense and special teams were better. 37 minutes of long sustained drives kept NE off the field. You keep ignoring this.
Cause a year when Eli threw for 4400 yards and 30 TDs to 14 INTs wasnt good enough to get in but Andy Dalton who threw for 3400 yards 19 TDs and 17 INTs did.
Think the pro bowl validates.... anyone?
Doesn't validate but speaks to the pulse of the fan and how they view the worth of QBs.
I mean, 10 QBs made it to the pro-bowl that year.
If fans viewed Eli as a HOF, surely he would have made the pro-bowl more often.
Cause a year when Eli threw for 4400 yards and 30 TDs to 14 INTs wasnt good enough to get in but Andy Dalton who threw for 3400 yards 19 TDs and 17 INTs did.
Think the pro bowl validates.... anyone?
Doesn't validate but speaks to the pulse of the fan and how they view the worth of QBs.
I mean, 10 QBs made it to the pro-bowl that year.
If fans viewed Eli as a HOF, surely he would have made the pro-bowl more often.
Most fans dont even know what a dive, trap, or slant is. I hope they have no say in the HOF decision.
Just like your Sanchez reference, the “Eli was just along for the ride.” stuff is BS.
I don’t think he was on the level of many. I think there were other factors that lead the team to both SB. I strongly believe the defense was a bigger factor in both SB runs. That doesn’t mean I think he was along for a ride.
So Eli in 2011 was single handly one of the greatest years of a qb ever and he carried the team by himself. But when we bring up missing playoffs 6 of 7 seasons and better part of a decade it is about the team and the defense and not as much Eli? HAHaHAhAhA
So Eli in 2011 was single handly one of the greatest years of a qb ever and he carried the team by himself. But when we bring up missing playoffs 6 of 7 seasons and better part of a decade it is about the team and the defense and not as much Eli? HAHaHAhAhA
better in playoffs with streamlined, run first play style. That being said-he really ripped Green Bay apart and we should have won that going away save for some bonehead plays.
2011 Eli-I can’t even believe that this is a question. He was absolutely fantastic. The Dallas game in Dallas, the beating he took in the NFCCG, the throw in the Super Bowl-he was playing at an MVP level. If not for Eli and JPP that team would have crashed and burned-the defense SUCKED for 3/4ths of the season (they were among the worst statiscally before the Jet game) and they also couldn’t run the ball worth a dump. So while we can point to a few bad games the offense had-you were literally in the shitter because your defense couldn’t stop anybody.
You can go back and jazz that one up with stats but by eye everyone was completely sick of the defense right before the comeback in Dallas at the end. If you had a mediocre defense with the way Eli was playing, they would have won division by 4 games. It was only very good after the Jet game (and I hate to say it but Jets helped us tremendously in that game by not running the ball 50 times).
5 to 8 people inducted to the Hall of Fame each year, I think it's inevitable that Eli gets in. The Hall of Fame should be more exclusive. There are not 8 hall of fame caliber people joining the league each year. Even if it were more exclusive, Elis should still get in.
Cool...yet another Eli Manning thread with all the same Â
pros and cons on why he is or isn’t HOF worthy, or if he is or isn’t Elite, or if he is or isn’t a contributing factor to the team’s recent decline.
Whats it been...2 weeks since I read the last one?
To quote the late great Judge Smails - “Don’t you people have homes??”.
It's not really the thread that is (to you) a re-hash. It was ESPN. IMO, a thread about a current ESPN thing is relevant. I think your issue should be more with Bristol than with BBI.
If he had only one, would we be saying he needs TWO to certainly get in?? LOL
The guy has two, and was front and center (particularly the 2nd game) in winning those games. Not to mention how he played during the rest of those playoff runs.
imo, the years post sb champ..has hurt him and knocked a few pegs down as a "sure" thing..cant deny that looking objectively
RE: RE: Cool...yet another Eli Manning thread with all the same Â
pros and cons on why he is or isn’t HOF worthy, or if he is or isn’t Elite, or if he is or isn’t a contributing factor to the team’s recent decline.
Whats it been...2 weeks since I read the last one?
To quote the late great Judge Smails - “Don’t you people have homes??”.
It's not really the thread that is (to you) a re-hash. It was ESPN. IMO, a thread about a current ESPN thing is relevant. I think your issue should be more with Bristol than with BBI.
Then you didn’t read the thread...
For all those who feel like the defense/running game Â
How do you explain the drive in Dallas just before halftime that Eli engineered and turned that game in our favor?
Also, how many QBs do you think there are in the history of this league that go into a frozen Lambeau Field totally unfazed and execute an offensive plan the way Eli did? Favre has a reputation as one of the toughest QBs in history and the weather had him begging for mercy that day.
Again, the defense was terrific. What they did to that Pats offense was historic, but Eli walked on to the field down 14-10 for all the marbles and stuck it up New England's ass.
So much of who Eli is and what he does goes beyond stats that if stats are your only argument it's almost as if you're missing the point.
RE: Cool...yet another Eli Manning thread with all the same Â
Eli mainly due to how one dimensional the offense was. We were dead last in the league when it came to rushing. This point really needs to be driven home. Has there ever been a SB winning team that was ranked last in rushing? I mean, defenses knew it was going to be all Eli's arm and we still won it all.
People will look back on Manning's career years from now and point to the SB highlights and the start streak. To me, the defining highlight for Eli has to be the playoff game versus the 49ers where he took a massive beating all four quarters and still kept coming. He was under siege for much of the game and kept making plays despite facing a very good and physical Niners defense.
And to a certain extent, that performance is almost a metaphor for his entire career. Beset on multiple fronts from many who would take their shots at him. And with ice in his veins, he shrugs it off and just keeps his cool and continues to chug along. Not flashy, no over-the-top wow factor... Just a professional that shows up and does his job to the best of us ability. And when all the other parts of the equation come together and the football gods smile upon us, we win a couple Lombardis.
Just based on the gymnastics necessary to prove Manning or the defense should get credit for the 2011 win should indicate both the offense and defense played smart, efficient football. Neither unit was great -- it was a well coached, well thought out game.
If you need to tear apart the game logs to find the plays that support your perspective -- probably means "great" is an exaggeration. Great should be obvious.
Just based on the gymnastics necessary to prove Manning or the defense should get credit for the 2011 win should indicate both the offense and defense played smart, efficient football. Neither unit was great -- it was a well coached, well thought out game.
If you need to tear apart the game logs to find the plays that support your perspective -- probably means "great" is an exaggeration. Great should be obvious.
Eli Manning led 7 4th quarter comebacks in the regular season, and broke the record for fourth quarter TD's, previously held in a tie by Johnny Unitas and Peyton Manning. I'd say that was a pretty great performance by the QB.
The throw to Mario Manningham on the final drive was also pretty great. At least that's what I've heard people say.
Getting sacked 8 times in a monsoon in San Francisco.... Â
and hanging in there having to drop back 56 times to pass was a pretty great performance.
Lighting up the 15-1 Packers in Lambeau (again) was also a pretty great performance.
I'm referring to the Super Bowl win, not the playoffs in general. Manning had 2 better games in the playoffs that year. It was a great year for him. The performance against a middle of the pack Pats D doesn't hit the great Mark for me.
RE: RE: Getting sacked 8 times in a monsoon in San Francisco.... Â
and hanging in there having to drop back 56 times to pass was a pretty great performance.
Lighting up the 15-1 Packers in Lambeau (again) was also a pretty great performance.
I'm referring to the Super Bowl win, not the playoffs in general. Manning had 2 better games in the playoffs that year. It was a great year for him. The performance against a middle of the pack Pats D doesn't hit the great Mark for me.
30/40, 296 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT's, 103.8 QB Rating.
Game winning drive with unbelievably clutch deep, pinpoint accurate throw to Manningham on the final drive to get us out of the inside of our own 10 yard line and moving.
We had 25 first downs on offense in the game, and 18 of them were passes. We had the ball for nearly 40 minutes on offense keeping Brady off the field.
What's the definition of great?
RE: RE: Getting sacked 8 times in a monsoon in San Francisco.... Â
and hanging in there having to drop back 56 times to pass was a pretty great performance.
Lighting up the 15-1 Packers in Lambeau (again) was also a pretty great performance.
I'm referring to the Super Bowl win, not the playoffs in general. Manning had 2 better games in the playoffs that year. It was a great year for him. The performance against a middle of the pack Pats D doesn't hit the great Mark for me.
I think some may have views the game differently if the red didn’t blow the holding call in boothe. We were up 9-3 at the time and Jacobs got a huge gain. We would have went in at half at worst 12-3 but instead we had to punt. Brady took them for a TD before half and one to start half. So it became a 17-9 game.
A TD before half and a 16-3 game would have given it a much different feel. Still Eli was 30-40.... pretty damn good.
in a regular season game, the context here is that we were facing one of the greatest team dynasties of all time, greatest QB and coach combination of all time, and it was on the biggest stage of all time.
So outside of a blowout win with a couple more TD's, which nobody did or should have expected, I don't see what else he could have done to be "great".
When you have arguments trying to prop up the D as being great in two games where they allowed 120+ yards rushing in some bizarre way to lessen Eli's accomplishments, you are dealing with posters whose argumentation is simply bizarre.
If people didn't think Eli played great in both Super Bowls, no player should be said to have a great game. It would be like taking Phil Simms SB and going "meh".
It is like saying both Eli and the D played excellent somehow lessens one or the other's accomplishments.
I keep saying ponderous because there are very few other words to describe this line of argumentation.
RE: RE: RE: Getting sacked 8 times in a monsoon in San Francisco.... Â
and hanging in there having to drop back 56 times to pass was a pretty great performance.
Lighting up the 15-1 Packers in Lambeau (again) was also a pretty great performance.
I'm referring to the Super Bowl win, not the playoffs in general. Manning had 2 better games in the playoffs that year. It was a great year for him. The performance against a middle of the pack Pats D doesn't hit the great Mark for me.
I think some may have views the game differently if the red didn’t blow the holding call in boothe. We were up 9-3 at the time and Jacobs got a huge gain. We would have went in at half at worst 12-3 but instead we had to punt. Brady took them for a TD before half and one to start half. So it became a 17-9 game.
A TD before half and a 16-3 game would have given it a much different feel. Still Eli was 30-40.... pretty damn good.
Dep -- as the half started to wind down I thought the Giants were about to blow it open. That hold was a major turning point.
I'm not knocking his performance, he had a very efficient, virtual mistake free game. And he was clutch as ways that season in the final moments. 75% completion percentage, and effective ball control.
In my opinion the 3 previous games that playoffs were better for different reasons. I don't think Eli gets enough credit for the demoralizing hit job he put on Atlanta. That was the most surgical, early tap out of that era.
He's 0-4 in all other playoff appearances.
While that certainly doesn't diminish the two SB years, it does put a ding on his overall post season performance.
2 of them were very poor individual performances from him, 1 of which was his first ever playoff game.
Another loss was a hard fought game on the road in which he played ok, neither great nor poorly.
In his 4th and most recent playoff loss, you'd really be grasping for straws if you wanted to lay that one at the feet of Eli Manning. There were a bunch of guys unprepared to play that day. Eli Manning was not one of them.
To recap, Eli has played poorly in 2 out of 12 postseason games and you actually have Giants fans trying to blanket him with some kind of troubling playoff performance pattern.
on any of my teams in my life. Tons of people love him, tons of people hate him. Giants fans and opposing fans alike. Not many are indifferent.
Eli is about as consistently inconsistent of any player I've ever watched.
His highs are as high as the greatest players in the game. Brady, Montana, anyone. He's carried his team to SB victories and put up monster games in those playoff runs. He's had great seasons that compare with the best.
However, his lows are as low as anyone. He's had games where he's looked like the worst QB in history, including a playoff game or 2.
All that being said, the goal is to win games and win SB's and Eli has been an intregal part to multiple SB winning teams. I don't know how he isn't a HOF player, although much like his career, I expect it to be highly debated for years after he retires. I do think he will get in eventually.
Eli is the most polarizing player
Keith : 11:53 am : link : reply
on any of my teams in my life. Tons of people love him, tons of people hate him. Giants fans and opposing fans alike. Not many are indifferent.
I get the other team's fans disliking Eli, but when our own fans act ungrateful for what he's done it boggles my mind.
Giants fans who dislike Eli, even a little are fucked up. Non-controversial. He just goes out and plays and was part of two historic teams. It isn't like he's some brash asswipe like Favre where I could at least see people pissed at his personality.
Hell, I bet Cam Newton gets more respect from Panther fans (who still dab en masse) while people here debate how even in his best years, Eli was a spectator to a powerhouse D.
on any of my teams in my life. Tons of people love him, tons of people hate him. Giants fans and opposing fans alike. Not many are indifferent.
Eli is about as consistently inconsistent of any player I've ever watched.
His highs are as high as the greatest players in the game. Brady, Montana, anyone. He's carried his team to SB victories and put up monster games in those playoff runs. He's had great seasons that compare with the best.
The HOF voters who splooge over stats will have no choice but to factor that in when Eli’s career stats are in the books and he’s ranked in the top 5-10. And that’s not even factoring in his 2 SB MVPs..
However, his lows are as low as anyone. He's had games where he's looked like the worst QB in history, including a playoff game or 2.
All that being said, the goal is to win games and win SB's and Eli has been an intregal part to multiple SB winning teams. I don't know how he isn't a HOF player, although much like his career, I expect it to be highly debated for years after he retires. I do think he will get in eventually.
I will bring up another point although I don't want to get into this argument on this thread BUT, Odell Beckham is shown more respect from a lot of Giants fans than Eli Manning. That doesn't sit right with me either. But again, the topic at hand here is Eli.
on any of my teams in my life. Tons of people love him, tons of people hate him. Giants fans and opposing fans alike. Not many are indifferent.
Eli is about as consistently inconsistent of any player I've ever watched.
His highs are as high as the greatest players in the game. Brady, Montana, anyone. He's carried his team to SB victories and put up monster games in those playoff runs. He's had great seasons that compare with the best.
However, his lows are as low as anyone. He's had games where he's looked like the worst QB in history, including a playoff game or 2.
All that being said, the goal is to win games and win SB's and Eli has been an intregal part to multiple SB winning teams. I don't know how he isn't a HOF player, although much like his career, I expect it to be highly debated for years after he retires. I do think he will get in eventually.
By this line of thought, we should question whether Montana and Rice should be in the HoF, they were always pedestrian at best versus the Giants.
I always felt they are overrated through my Giants fan perspective.
on any of my teams in my life. Tons of people love him, tons of people hate him. Giants fans and opposing fans alike. Not many are indifferent.
Eli is about as consistently inconsistent of any player I've ever watched.
His highs are as high as the greatest players in the game. Brady, Montana, anyone. He's carried his team to SB victories and put up monster games in those playoff runs. He's had great seasons that compare with the best.
The HOF voters who splooge over stats will have no choice but to factor that in when Eli’s career stats are in the books and he’s ranked in the top 5-10. And that’s not even factoring in his 2 SB MVPs..
However, his lows are as low as anyone. He's had games where he's looked like the worst QB in history, including a playoff game or 2.
All that being said, the goal is to win games and win SB's and Eli has been an intregal part to multiple SB winning teams. I don't know how he isn't a HOF player, although much like his career, I expect it to be highly debated for years after he retires. I do think he will get in eventually.
Keith, The HOF voters who splooge over stats will have no choice but to factor that in when Eli’s career stats are in the books and he’s ranked in the top 5-10. And that’s not even factoring in his 2 SB MVPs..
RE: And while the stat line may seem just good.... Â
in a regular season game, the context here is that we were facing one of the greatest team dynasties of all time, greatest QB and coach combination of all time, and it was on the biggest stage of all time.
So outside of a blowout win with a couple more TD's, which nobody did or should have expected, I don't see what else he could have done to be "great".
If great is the top echelon, I'd put the 2011 NFCC there -- that was against a far superior defense, in absolutely brutal weather, on an absolutely terrible field. Manning played near perfect intellectual and physical football that game. He sacrificed his body, held onto to the football hit after hit and struck when he had the opportunity.
That 9ers team will end up with a Missing Rings America's Game. We will look back at Manning as the primary reason they didn't get to back-to-back Super Bowls.
That's what I think history will judge as a great performance. Again no knock on the Super Bowl. Very good, efficient, smart performance. I just don't think it hits the "great" marker.
I will bring up another point although I don't want to get into this argument on this thread BUT, Odell Beckham is shown more respect from a lot of Giants fans than Eli Manning. That doesn't sit right with me either. But again, the topic at hand here is Eli.
Hah! "I don't want to get into this argument on this thread, but I'll throw this out there so I can bitch about Odell Beckham even more."
Eli is the most polarizing player
Keith : 11:53 am : link : reply
on any of my teams in my life. Tons of people love him, tons of people hate him. Giants fans and opposing fans alike. Not many are indifferent.
I get the other team's fans disliking Eli, but when our own fans act ungrateful for what he's done it boggles my mind.
Giants fans who dislike Eli, even a little are fucked up. Non-controversial. He just goes out and plays and was part of two historic teams. It isn't like he's some brash asswipe like Favre where I could at least see people pissed at his personality.
Hell, I bet Cam Newton gets more respect from Panther fans (who still dab en masse) while people here debate how even in his best years, Eli was a spectator to a powerhouse D.
I think all teams have fans that don't like their QB. My father hated Simms. I would vote for Eli in a heartbeat for the HoF. He unfortunately is not a lock as evidenced by this very discussion. Many of our own fans don't believe he is/was any good. There have been many overrated NFL player polls over the years that are anonymous voting by players that played against Eli and Eli shows up on those polls as among the NFL's most overrated. He is never very high on the other polls when rating the NFLs top 100 players voted on by players. Many in the media have been very critical of him, his entire career. These are the people that actually vote. I therefore conclude Eli is no lock but my opinion is that he should be a lock. I think it is a combination of jealousy and sour grapes that puts Eli in that light.
I'm like Terps in this regard... Eli Manning hand delivered two of the greatest sports moments in my life. I'll be forever grateful and I'll never forget them.
its fairly impossible to do so because of what he has achieved for the franchise, and how he carries himself about his business.
However, you all are confusing "dislike" versus those that simply bring some critical reality to how he has played poorly at times in his career, moreso as of late as both he and the team have been in fairly noticeable decline.
We all hope he (and the team) bounces back this season; otherwise I don't see why you would be on this site...
2 of them were very poor individual performances from him, 1 of which was his first ever playoff game.
Another loss was a hard fought game on the road in which he played ok, neither great nor poorly.
In his 4th and most recent playoff loss, you'd really be grasping for straws if you wanted to lay that one at the feet of Eli Manning. There were a bunch of guys unprepared to play that day. Eli Manning was not one of them.
To recap, Eli has played poorly in 2 out of 12 postseason games and you actually have Giants fans trying to blanket him with some kind of troubling playoff performance pattern.
Unbelievable.
And I'd be cast out if I said both SBs were won because of the D-Line.
I'd be further cast out by saying more QB's have won SB MVP than any other position combined.
You can scrutinize and pick apart both the good and the bad.
its fairly impossible to do so because of what he has achieved for the franchise, and how he carries himself about his business.
However, you all are confusing "dislike" versus those that simply bring some critical reality to how he has played poorly at times in his career, moreso as of late as both he and the team have been in fairly noticeable decline.
We all hope he (and the team) bounces back this season; otherwise I don't see why you would be on this site...
No..we're not...
RE: Can you show me a QB who is in who had a flawless postseason record Â
If great is the top echelon, I'd put the 2011 NFCC there -- that was against a far superior defense, in absolutely brutal weather, on an absolutely terrible field. Manning played near perfect intellectual and physical football that game. He sacrificed his body, held onto to the football hit after hit and struck when he had the opportunity.
Eli certainly came up big in that NFCC game. Tough as nails and will always remember that strike to Mario.
But recall he had some fortunate plays in that game where he got a bit "loose" with the ball (a fumble early recovered by an Olineman, and 2 fairly easy interceptions where SF players in the secondary collided with one another).
However, all superbowl winners need to have the ball bounce their way as well...
and ask yourself who has accomplished the same thing that isnt a hall of famer? You can look at things like wins, TDs, yards, Super Bowls and everyone in the same group as Eli is their in the hall or a lock. Even if you just looked at the two rings he has a strong case. Its not like his brother who got one by besting the likes of Rex Grossman and lucked into a second one that Brock Osweiler probably could have won in his place. Eli played the best and beat the best twice
to their lowest point total all season. (NE's next highest point total was 6 points higher!)
I'm not taking away from what Eli did, but surely the D had a massive influence in that win.
Of missing the playoffs. Eli played very well in 2014 and 2015. He played well in 2009 and 2010.
Drew Brees missed the playoffs a bunch of times too. Funny how no one brings that up.
Eli played a terrific level from 05-2012. Never perfect, but he he was good more often than not and LEGENDARY on two long and glorious occasions. Add that up, fuck faces, that’s very very very very close to hof status. Add in the compiling years and the exemplified nature Eli has carried himself. And let’s not forget his career isn’t over...
I’ve said it 100 times now. Sometimes a very good player can have a great career. Sometimes a flawed player can do just enough to warrant HOF consideration. The HOF, right or wrong, isn’t there for the perfect player. Many of the inductees are flawed but did enough.
its fairly impossible to do so because of what he has achieved for the franchise, and how he carries himself about his business.
However, you all are confusing "dislike" versus those that simply bring some critical reality to how he has played poorly at times in his career, moreso as of late as both he and the team have been in fairly noticeable decline.
We all hope he (and the team) bounces back this season; otherwise I don't see why you would be on this site...
googs with only truely objective view, unlike most on this site about eli, nails it.
the case, you wouldn't have people falling all over themselves to make the argument that the D was why we won SB's:
Quote:
However, you all are confusing "dislike" versus those that simply bring some critical reality to how he has played poorly at times in his career, moreso as of late as both he and the team have been in fairly noticeable decline
Arguing that isn't bringing critical reality to playing poorly at times, it is directly trying to diminish the SB wins and Eli's impact on them.
Heck, KWALL above even makes a comment about Samuel missing an "easy" INT in the context that Eli got away with luck to win, yet says Welker dropping a pass, even if it led to a loss, wouldn't diminish how great the D played.
A take like that really can't get much more moronic and it has nothing to do with years of decline - it is specific to the SB game
that there is a big difference between critical review and "hate."
My only issue with the criticism of Eli over the past handful of years is that I don't know if I could differentiate between good QB play and bad QB play over the last 5+ years with the state of this offensive line who couldn't pass protect or run block, a nonexistent run game, and a carousel at WR and TE.
For a pocket-passing QB, what was Eli supposed to do? Matt Ryan was the MVP in 2016. If he were in this situation the last few years, would we have seen an offense light it up? I doubt it highly.
the case, you wouldn't have people falling all over themselves to make the argument that the D was why we won SB's:
Quote:
However, you all are confusing "dislike" versus those that simply bring some critical reality to how he has played poorly at times in his career, moreso as of late as both he and the team have been in fairly noticeable decline
Arguing that isn't bringing critical reality to playing poorly at times, it is directly trying to diminish the SB wins and Eli's impact on them.
Heck, KWALL above even makes a comment about Samuel missing an "easy" INT in the context that Eli got away with luck to win, yet says Welker dropping a pass, even if it led to a loss, wouldn't diminish how great the D played.
A take like that really can't get much more moronic and it has nothing to do with years of decline - it is specific to the SB game
Yeah, but you just continue to argue with a fairly minute number of posters that have gone too far with their views on a particular topic, but extrapolate it over a greater population of posters that don't really exist on here.
A take like that really can't get much more moronic either...
But I hate that anyone who is critical of Eli's play is a hater.
Googs last part was good. I know there are some with an irrational hatred of Eli, but there are also some who rationalize all his poor to mediocre performances.
I'm afraid that Eli has become a QB viewed by many just as one who cannot lift his team, because he has done so in the past, but the reality is that every time one of his defenders brings up his poor surrounding cast they reinforce that perception. Looking forward, if Eli has a renaissance in the next couple of years some will point to the amazing weapons he has and suggest that other QBs would have done just as well or better than him. If the offensive futility continues, especially if it's the result of terrible oline play, the divide between detractors and supporters will only get wider.
Overall you might disagree with the arguments put forth on either side on this thread, those putting them forth are knowledgeable fans who have passionately followed his career for many years. Those viewpoints shouldn't be readily dismissed imo.
performances are enough in my opinion. Especially the 2011 NFC Championship game. He was legendary. Throw in the SB wins and I'll put him up against anyone
I think a big reason opposing fans don't support Eli enough Â
Rivers is a tense competitor and he shows it. He gets fired up and he's very emotional. Fans love to see that shit. He moves around the pocket very well and while he has a unique throwing motion, he makes some pretty crazy throws from different positions.
Roethlisberger is fearless in the pocket and guys just dangle from him as he makes throws sometimes. He's big, tough and throws a great ball.
There's nothing pretty about Eli Manning. He doesn't throw the prettiest ball and he shows 0 emotion. You can't tell if it's game 1 of the preseason or the SB by looking at him. He just stands in the pocket and makes his reads.
Nope its not. You pivot your debate with one single poster KWALL Â
Eli Manning — It's a pretty safe bet that he and Peyton will be the first brothers in the Hall. Eli — MVP in the Giants' two Super Bowl wins — should be among some elite company on the all-time career passing lists by the time his career is complete, despite his overall uneven resume.
But I hate that anyone who is critical of Eli's play is a hater.
...
Overall you might disagree with the arguments put forth on either side on this thread, those putting them forth are knowledgeable fans who have passionately followed his career for many years. Those viewpoints shouldn't be readily dismissed imo.
Nope its not. You pivot your debate with one single poster KWALL
Jimmy Googs : 7:34 pm : link : reply
and next it becomes "all the Giant fans that dislike Eli" as if there is a club of posters that fit neatly in your latest fit.
Nope. There's the direct debate of addressing a single poster's specifics while also discussing that there are many people who have the stance that eli doesn't belong in the HoF.
On this thread alone, I count 9 of those posters.
And there certainly is a club of posters here who dislike Eli. Some who exist only to post negatively about him. You really are saying there isn't?
You have simply lost your mind. Are you really counting the Â
There's the direct debate of addressing a single poster's specifics while also discussing that there are many people who have the stance that eli doesn't belong in the HoF.
always aligned as to how you reflect on the game and how it plays out.
But when you go into your bashing-mode on any poster/theme that expresses opinions contra to the Giants front office, coaches or players, then we become unaligned.
Find a balance of mocking the knuckleheads versus those that truly have a different opinion than you on areas that are truly debatable...
If you want to ignore the 0-4 postseason record in non-SB seasons, then yes...outstanding postseason career.
Unfortunately, not all members of the Selection Committee are Giants fans. They will take this into consideration.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Can you show me a QB who is in who had a flawless postseason record Â
If you want to ignore the 0-4 postseason record in non-SB seasons, then yes...outstanding postseason career.
Unfortunately, not all members of the Selection Committee are Giants fans. They will take this into consideration.
No they won’t.
Again, Eli is a LOCK for the Hall. The only question Â
1-He will place somewhere near or in the top 5 all-time in stats. Splooge-worthy to HOF voters. He’s NOT an “amasser” of stats like Testaverde or Bettis, albeit one got in
2-He won TWO MVP TROPHIES IN SBs. Not many have accomplished that this side of Brady, Montana and Bradshaw, to name a few. Won TWO SBs? Yes. There are a bunch, i.e. Plunkett..TWO MVPs on the world’s biggest stage? No, not too many
Contingent of giants fans that truly baffle me when it comes to the quarterbacks that play for the giants.
Phil Simms took a lot of abuse while he played and never really got the reorganization or appreciation for his accomplishments until years after he retired. He still has a few detractors.
Eli Manning is the same. He is criticized for his negatives and success gets negated by crediting the defense and luck.
The facts are that Eli is a 2 time Superbowl champion and 2 time Superbowl MVP. Eli has had many late 4th heroic comebacks and has put up numbers that rival his contemporaries.
The giants Superbowl runs with Eli at the helm are 2 of the biggest historical runs in NFL history. Lambeau field against the packers in freezing temperatures. Beating the undefeated patriots. Championship game against the 49ers where Eli took one of the biggest beatings i have seen any quarterback take in the playoffs and still lead the team to a win. The combined records of the teams the giants beat in the playoffs to Superbowl championships. 2007 (51-13) and 2011 (51-13) and they did it on the road with the exception of 1 game against the falcons at home.
In the end it will be debated and Eli will still have his detractors among the media, hall of fame voters and fans alike, but he will eventually be voted in and rightfully so
Why does it matter to you all so much whether Eli Manning Â
The guy isn't even done with his body of work yet for christ sake. And even if he was, the amount of stat-gathering and analytical comparisons by you knuckleheads means nothing unless you want to tell me you actually vote.
There is a difference between talking Giants-stuff during slow summer months and arguing so adamantly about an event that will not even be relevant for a minimum of at least 6 more years.
lord...
RE: Why does it matter to you all so much whether Eli Manning Â
The guy isn't even done with his body of work yet for christ sake. And even if he was, the amount of stat-gathering and analytical comparisons by you knuckleheads means nothing unless you want to tell me you actually vote.
There is a difference between talking Giants-stuff during slow summer months and arguing so adamantly about an event that will not even be relevant for a minimum of at least 6 more years.
lord...
well..its BBI a site full of knuckleheads
RE: Why does it matter to you all so much whether Eli Manning Â
The guy isn't even done with his body of work yet for christ sake. And even if he was, the amount of stat-gathering and analytical comparisons by you knuckleheads means nothing unless you want to tell me you actually vote.
There is a difference between talking Giants-stuff during slow summer months and arguing so adamantly about an event that will not even be relevant for a minimum of at least 6 more years.
lord...
Why does it bother you so much whenever there is people who speak Pro-Eli. You claim you are tired and borish if these threads, yet you make sure you post your negative opinions on them all the time?
Whenever there is a pro-eli thread, it’s a guarantee you will come to be negative on it as it is guarantee guys like me and Britt speak positively on it. The only difference it’s normal to chime in when trying to be positive.
every comment I have in this thread is pro-Eli or at least objective as to commentary.
you're like a conditioned hamster running on his wheel when you post...
I can say the same about you running in circles.
And saying you’re objective, doesn’t make you objective. There was an article discussing Eli and it’s controversial and you’re shitting on posters for debating it. Your first comment in the thread was “wasn’t it just two weeks ago we had this discussion”.
It’s just odd.
The article can be controversial, but its also meaningless Â
He’s going to get in eventually even if it takes some years.
Also, I'll take Tiki Barber over Frank Gore any day of the week.
A sports medium that employs a larger than insignificant % of actual HOF voters.
The debate of Eli being a HoFer on BBI is tiresome so I won’t even get into that and waste my time there anymore.
I guess since he has a 'cool' nickname he must get in
339 passing TDs (eighth all time)
51,682 passing yards (sixth all time)
49,754 yards of total offense (seventh all time)
Started 210 consecutive games from 2004 to '17
Nope, not a hall of fame career. Not at all.
He’s going to get in eventually even if it takes some years.
Yeah, but Frank Gore will almost certainly finish 4th on the all time rushing list. It should be hard not to put a guy who ranks top 5 in his most significant statistical category in the HOF.
Quote:
Four Pro Bowls, two-time Super Bowl MVP (2007 and 2011)
339 passing TDs (eighth all time)
51,682 passing yards (sixth all time)
49,754 yards of total offense (seventh all time)
Started 210 consecutive games from 2004 to '17
Nope, not a hall of fame career. Not at all.
I'm not sure why they include the "total offense" stat.
You think Dan Marino or Warren Moon wouldn't trade their gold jackets for that?
But at least we got to find out for certain that Geno Smith was not the future of the franchise.
If he had only one, would we be saying he needs TWO to certainly get in?? LOL
The guy has two, and was front and center (particularly the 2nd game) in winning those games. Not to mention how he played during the rest of those playoff runs.
2. Three more 4000 yard seasons (or close to 4000 yards). That would put him past Marino for total yards. Then he is in but might have to sweat it
Rivers is 51% (after about 35,000 votes).
I'm not sure Eli will ever get in. But I'm pretty sure Rivers won't get in before Eli.
(Ben will get in well before either Eli or Rivers, because the media figures who vote for it adore Ben.)
I think the next couple of years will decide the argument. Eli has a stud RB, a stud WR, a stud receiving TE, the line seems better, the coach is a quarterback whisperer -- he has been surrounded with a better football support system. If he does something like 55% completions and double-digit interceptions for a couple of years, with the Giants basically at .500, the naysayers will have more ammunition. If he does 66%+ completions, lots of TDs and the Giants are 10+ wins and make a deep playoff run, it's going to be much harder to say no to him.
* Two-time Super Bowl champ
* Two-time Super Bowl MVP
* 210 consecutive QB starts (2nd all-time)
* 51,682 career yards (6th all-time, will pass Tarkenton with 4 more)
* 339 career touchdown passes (8th all-time)
* 4,424 career pass completions (6th all-time)
* 7,396 career pass attempts (6th all-time)
* He has the 14th-highest season yards total (4,933 in 2011)
Is the Hall of Fame a question because he has thrown a lot of interceptions? He has 228 of those. Same exact number as Drew Brees.
I don't know how it's even debatable that Eli goes into the NFL Hall of Fame.
Distinguish between these 2 careers
Player A
51,682 yards (6 all time)
339 TDs (8 all time)
4x Pro Bowl
2x SB champion
2x SB MVP
Player B
51,065 yards (8 all time)
329 TDs (9 all time)
2x SB champion
6x Pro Bowl
1x SB MVP.
But one is a lock and the other is out? I guess Eli’s 4 Pro Bowls “pales in comparison” to Ben’s 6 Pro Bowls?
2 Pro Bowls is the difference I guess? Come on
Especially since they acknowledge Eli’s “legendary”
Just to sum - the guy will more all time pass yards and TDs and more SB MVPs and the legendary playoff career is not the “lock”
His playoff resume speaks for itself but week to week when you watch guys like Rodgers/Brady you know you're seeing a HOF guy play.
Do you get that same feeling from Eli? He's just not on the level of those players. Who cares? We're fans and he delivered what matters most.
The odds of that happening have to be in the millions. So many things have to align.
I don't give a shit if he gets in the Hall of Fame or not. No one is taking those two games away from me, and those two games outweigh entire careers of other QBs who are already in the Hall of Fame.
Distinguish between these 2 careers
Player A
51,682 yards (6 all time)
339 TDs (8 all time)
4x Pro Bowl
2x SB champion
2x SB MVP
Player B
51,065 yards (8 all time)
329 TDs (9 all time)
2x SB champion
6x Pro Bowl
1x SB MVP.
But one is a lock and the other is out? I guess Eli’s 4 Pro Bowls “pales in comparison” to Ben’s 6 Pro Bowls?
2 Pro Bowls is the difference I guess? Come on
Especially since they acknowledge Eli’s “legendary”
Just to sum - the guy will more all time pass yards and TDs and more SB MVPs and the legendary playoff career is not the “lock”
Just wondering why you didn't include the interception totals of both players.
Eli
He's a slam dunk.
His regular seasons are very good but not great.
His postseasons are elite. The body of work he put together in just 4 games (2 NFC title games and 2 SBs) is incredible.
Career completion %: Eli - 59.8%; Ben - 64.1%; Rivers 64.2%
Career INTs: Eli - 228; Ben - 174; Rivers - 166
Career Passer Rating: Eli - 83.5; Ben - 94.0; Rivers - 94.8
His playoff resume speaks for itself but week to week when you watch guys like Rodgers/Brady you know you're seeing a HOF guy play.
Do you get that same feeling from Eli? He's just not on the level of those players. Who cares? We're fans and he delivered what matters most.
And that's probably why he won't be first ballot. Rodgers/Brady...those are first ballots.
But there's nothing wrong with going in a few years later...sometimes it even takes longer.
The guy has a HOF resume.......he'll be in there one day.
Now Eli has the 2 SB's and some are saying he needs a 3rd.
He is a HoF QB based on the standards set for QB's already enshrined.
Hell, look at Eli vs. Namath. Look at him vs. Griese. Griese isn't in for his passing - he's in for the titles. Same argument with Aikman
I think he can really make a difference in the discussion over the next few years. With that said, I think DG set him up for success and having Pat Shurmur on the sidelines calling plays will only help him IMO.
Got to watch Eli’s full career, plenty of great games and two unforgettable playoff runs. That’s what matters.
Whether they make a bronze statue of his head to stick in a museum really makes no difference to me.
His vote may have gone the way of the Daily News by the time Eli is eligible.
Sounds about right to me.
Distinguish between these 2 careers
Player A
51,682 yards (6 all time)
339 TDs (8 all time)
4x Pro Bowl
2x SB champion
2x SB MVP
Player B
51,065 yards (8 all time)
329 TDs (9 all time)
2x SB champion
6x Pro Bowl
1x SB MVP.
But one is a lock and the other is out? I guess Eli’s 4 Pro Bowls “pales in comparison” to Ben’s 6 Pro Bowls?
2 Pro Bowls is the difference I guess? Come on
Especially since they acknowledge Eli’s “legendary”
Just to sum - the guy will more all time pass yards and TDs and more SB MVPs and the legendary playoff career is not the “lock”
You conveniently left out stats that separate these two players.
Ben has completed 64% of his passes. Eli 59%. He's also thrown 54 more interceptions.
Amen.
How could you possibly compare the careers of these two players considering the eras they played in?
I'm pretty sure that damning stat would be used to say Eli doesn't belong.
Just wondering why you didn't include the interception totals of both players. [/quote]
You're right. Why stop there. Lets look at playoff stats.
Eli
8-4 record
242 comp, 400 att, 2,815 yards, 18 TD's, 9 picks, 7.04 ypa, 87.4 rating
Ben
13-8 record
422 comp, 676 att, 5,256 yards, 30 FF's, 24 picks, 7.74 to a, 86.5 rating
Go one further. Since 2005 when both became full time starters
Times Giants were top 10 in offense: 7
Times Steelers were top 10 in offense: 5
Times Giants were top 10 in defense: 2
Times Steelers were top 10 in defense: 7
And one player wasn't surrounded by Hall of Famers in his career on offense.
I'm pretty sure that damning stat would be used to say Eli doesn't belong.
Brett Favre also led the league in that stat and has 336 for his illustrious HOF career too. I don't think the INT stats should be used against him, but we know there will be those that do.
I'm pretty sure that damning stat would be used to say Eli doesn't belong.
Any argument used against Eli can be used to point to another HoF player.
Kurt Warner is in with a brief period of greatness
Bob Griese was considered mediocre outside of his titles
I already referenced the Namath stats, and he's in because he won a historic game. Seriously - a guy throws more INT's thn TD's 11 out of 13 years and is a HoF guy??
Every 2 time SB MVP is in the HoF
George Blanda is in the HoF!!
Win one more championship and the guy gets a head mounted on NFL’s Mount Rushmore.
Why exactly is Rivers a HOFer but Eli isn’t?
People are hyper focused on Eli’s weak areas or downturns in his career more than any other player going. It’s as simple as that. Eli has sore spots in his career I have no problem acknowledging that but here’s the thing that drives me nuts: rivers, brees even Big Ben also have sore spots.
Who cares. Eli is one of the Nfl’s iq tests.
Quote:
eventually. I don't think he gets in his first try though.
Sounds about right to me.
Same here.
It kind of depends on what you value as a HOF voter - moments of greatness or overall body of work.
You have to add to that that he elevated the status of AFL in the eyes of the fans and owners and effectively got every player in both leagues a significant pay raise.
It kind of depends on what you value as a HOF voter - moments of greatness or overall body of work.
Bullshit - he didn't "stunk up the place" on the playoff loss to the Green Bay Packers. He showed up. The rest of the team didn't .
Missed the 2008 playoffs, I take it?
It kind of depends on what you value as a HOF voter - moments of greatness or overall body of work.
Eli has been more consistent than common belief though. He’s had two poor seasons, 2013 and 2017 and a bunch of productive seasons albeit he’s been prone to the turnover and nearly all of them.
Pick a random season. More than likely the team won 8 plus games and Eli threw for 4200 yards and 26 tds. Mix in the 2 amazing runs and the 3-4 very good regular seasons. It’s probably good enough for canton but I’d like to see Eli flash 2 more good seasons of play. Doesn’t need a ring, just a nice two seasons of play. Let’s say 19 wins combined and one 1-2 playoff wins. Do that he’s a lock but not first ballot.
I’m of the belief that the giants franchise and Eli doesn’t necessarily need super bowl wins these next few years. They just need to win games and get back to January.
But he sure isn't doing himself any favors as of late.
Remember, Jim Plunkett isn't in the HOF either & he has 2 SB's as well.
But Plunkett doesn't have the numbers Eli has.
But yes, Eli will probably get in.
Doesn't hurt that he has the name Manning, either.
I think the only way he doesn't, is if he plays a few more years & stinks up the joint like he has been.
Funny, but Eli would actually benefit himself by retiring now.
Rather than prolonging his career of sucktitude & giving any of the voters more doubt than they already have.
Just my opinion, though.
If we are arguing whether or not he will get in, that's a completely different discussion. Articles like the one from ESPN are not helpful for certain.
04 Class - ( New Window )
Is the Hall of Fame a question because he has thrown a lot of interceptions? He has 228 of those. Same exact number as Drew Brees.
Brees has also thrown 149 more TDs than Eli, so I'm not sure that's the best comparison to make.
And then douchebag goes and shoots himself in the leg.
I've probably forgotten more about football, than you'll ever know.
I said he WILL get in.
2 SB wins vs Pats & mvp's tends to get that for a player.
He has the stats to get his Gold Jacket. No doubt!
But right now
Today
Eli's the worst QB in the division.
Even behind Dak (which is sad)
If Eli continues to suck, he COULD run the risk of making it tough for himself TO get in.
But rights now?
He's a shoe in
Just not on 1st try
But be honest with your self people.
Does any team fear playing Eli?
No, they actually want to play Eli
& that's not a good sign.
If he were smart?
Every audible straight to Barkley.
Lol
Bob Griese was considered mediocre outside of his titles
Really? Says who? Griese was a league MVP, 6X pro bowl player, 2X all pro, led the league in TDs one year, etc.
And in an era where many QBs had more INTs than TDS, he was +20 in TDs to INTs.
Not to mention the players who were signed off the street to replace our injured against the Panthers
The Hall of Fame has made enough mistakes of letting players in who shouldn't. But Eli is more borderline than some of those players so that will help.
Personally, I wouldn't put him in. I wouldn't put Warner in either. I wouldn't have put Namath in. I wouldn't put Aikman in - his numbers for the talent around him are very mediocre.
Or maybe not. Dragon seems to be lighting it up in camp.
The numbers aren't close unless you leave out important stats (like we see here). Ben was much more consistent while winning at a higher rate.
Bens' best was better and the low's weren't close. Eli had some rough years. Ben hasn't.
Eli will have an explosive offense this year. If they can block for him he should put up big numbers. I think he needs the to get in.
I bet Archie is wondering how the King of such a royal family didn't get into the HoF.
Such constantly bizarre takes.
Matt Stafford has better numbers than Troy Aikman. Anyone that tries to tell me Stafford is a better QB than Aikman can fuck off, because the whole world has gone crazy at that point.
I agree especially with how many WRs and TEs he's lost. However this Oline MUST grow to average and Eli must take advantage. Then the years of shit Olines must be hammered home, proving what Eli was up against.
You can't say Namath is in for his flash and win against the Colts and say Manning isn't. Same as your Aikman example.
It is unfortunate that any publication would say Rivers is a HoF'er and Eli isn't.
One point of greatness is to excel at the biggest times. Eli has. I won't fault Rivers for never getting the chance, but on the flip side, you can't take away those who have.
Like I said above, Eli checks off the box of any perceived negative, either through superior stats in relation or with a QB already in who is bested in the category by Eli
But that's not the way the actual HOF is.
Funny because the bar keeps moving. They used to say that about him getting his second.
Matt Stafford has better numbers than Troy Aikman. Anyone that tries to tell me Stafford is a better QB than Aikman can fuck off, because the whole world has gone crazy at that point.
Aikman was certainly a talent. But has there ever been a QB with more talent on both sides of the ball? Maybe Bradshaw? And Aikman still only broke 20 TDs in a season 1X with 23. His next career high is 19. His lifetime QBR is 81.
Let me tell you something, a ton of QBs could have thrived with the Dallas team.
Sorry, but his numbers are pedestrian. You have to have more than rings to get in. There has to be some individual accomplishment on a season by season basis that stand out - in my book.
Both are HOF players. But people act like eli has never been good as Ben. You swear that Ben never had a bad year or games according to some here.
It took Charles Haley close to 10 years. It took Ken Stabler over 30 years. It took Lynn Swann over 20 years.
I can never put my finger on the inconsistent nature of the selection process.
In the end voters will remember and be influenced by the event imo.
But when you have guys like Gary Meyers making calls, it is what you get.
Rivers is 51% (after about 35,000 votes).
I'm not sure Eli will ever get in. But I'm pretty sure Rivers won't get in before Eli.
(Ben will get in well before either Eli or Rivers, because the media figures who vote for it adore Ben.)
I just wonder how much of the voting process is qualitative stuff. In ten years from now, Roethlisberger will simply be remembered as being an elite QB more so than either Eli or Rivers.
It's really that way with any player in the NFL as that player is always on the field with 10 other men he's relying on in one way or another.
I think the NBA is the clearest cut league where you can equate winning to individual performance.
The easiest case to make for Eli is that he's been a terrific regular season QB who has been as reliable and durable as anyone not named Brett Favre. In the playoffs, and really just in general Eli was able to lift his game to another level in the most clutch moments. His performances in his two NFC title games and Super Bowls are legendary.
People should also remember that Kevin Gilbride's offense emphasized throwing the ball downfield. I leave it to others with a better knowledge of statistics, but my recollection is that for many years under KG, the Giants were at or near the top in passes that traveled more than 20 yards in the air. Longer passes obviously increase the chance of an incompletion or interception.
There was no player more important or more responsible for his team's success that season.
Why do you have to twist what really is being said.
"...swear Ben never had a bad game..."
Pointing out the obvious, that Ben has better numbers across the board and has been much more consistent does not say "swear Ben never had a bad game".
Thats just weak.
Bens career QB rating is 94. Eli has NEVER had even one season with a 94 rating.
Does that mean Ben never had a bad game? No. It means he's consistently outplayed Eli.
Any argument used against Eli can be used to point to another HoF player.
Kurt Warner is in with a brief period of greatness
Bob Griese was considered mediocre outside of his titles
I already referenced the Namath stats, and he's in because he won a historic game. Seriously - a guy throws more INT's thn TD's 11 out of 13 years and is a HoF guy??
Every 2 time SB MVP is in the HoF
George Blanda is in the HoF!!
I agree with you. Just wondering if Trent Dilfer or Nick foles won just one more SB, would they be in the HOF?
Agreed.
Eli is a unique case. He’s also still playing. Let these next 2-3 seasons marinate.
Distinguish between these 2 careers
Player A
51,682 yards (6 all time)
339 TDs (8 all time)
4x Pro Bowl
2x SB champion
2x SB MVP
Player B
51,065 yards (8 all time)
329 TDs (9 all time)
2x SB champion
6x Pro Bowl
1x SB MVP.
But one is a lock and the other is out? I guess Eli’s 4 Pro Bowls “pales in comparison” to Ben’s 6 Pro Bowls?
2 Pro Bowls is the difference I guess? Come on
Especially since they acknowledge Eli’s “legendary”
Just to sum - the guy will more all time pass yards and TDs and more SB MVPs and the legendary playoff career is not the “lock”
must be my eyes but where are the interception totals? or do those not count? Also has Big Ben missed 6 of 7 seasons of post season football?
173 td's 220 int's and a career 50.1 completion percentage.
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that any 2 time SB MVP who played more than a handful of years belongs.
Any argument used against Eli can be used to point to another HoF player.
Kurt Warner is in with a brief period of greatness
Bob Griese was considered mediocre outside of his titles
I already referenced the Namath stats, and he's in because he won a historic game. Seriously - a guy throws more INT's thn TD's 11 out of 13 years and is a HoF guy??
Every 2 time SB MVP is in the HoF
George Blanda is in the HoF!!
I agree with you. Just wondering if Trent Dilfer or Nick foles won just one more SB, would they be in the HOF?
Trent dilfer wasn’t A good to very good starting qb for the better part of 15 years. He was a caretaker most of the time, an upstart once or twice early on, and a liability at other moments.
While Dilfer played 13 seasons, he was only a fulltime starter for 4 years - 5 if you count a season with the Browns. He'd still need to be SB MVP two other times:) But in that case, you'd have to believe he's in
Foles would be trickier. He's never played a full 16 games as a starter and he's already 28. But if he ends up going to say the Chargers to replace Rivers and leads them to a SB as the MVP, playing 3-5 years there. He'd be in too. I would think.
But that's a lot of hypotheticals.
I also don't agree with your 2011 MVP comment. Rodgers was more valuable. Come on. Rodgers had the highest QB rating ever that year. And with Rodgers it sure isn't all about the stats. He carries his team.
MVP is a reg season award. Eli wasn't close to Rodgers.
In 2011, the defense was the story. They played great down the stretch to get us in and dominated in playoffs.
Now I know you're going to point to the defensive numbers for the season (and they had some terrible games). But the play in the last 5-6 games was exceptional. And the playoffs were outstanding.
2011 was Eli's best year but he didn't carry the team.
However, I'm not convinced Eli does actually get in. I think Ben is more of a sure thing.
I mean with a top rushing attack and defense every year - maybe I should say Bens has underperformed in his career in comparison to his peers?
I also don't agree with your 2011 MVP comment. Rodgers was more valuable. Come on. Rodgers had the highest QB rating ever that year. And with Rodgers it sure isn't all about the stats. He carries his team.
MVP is a reg season award. Eli wasn't close to Rodgers.
In 2011, the defense was the story. They played great down the stretch to get us in and dominated in playoffs.
Now I know you're going to point to the defensive numbers for the season (and they had some terrible games). But the play in the last 5-6 games was exceptional. And the playoffs were outstanding.
2011 was Eli's best year but he didn't carry the team.
I can't understand how you could Eli didn't carry that team. Sure the defense picked up over the final few games but Eli was the reason they were still in it. That was Eli's best season and it's even more incredible with the pitiful protection that he had along with the worst running game in the league.
Giants had the ball for 37 minutes.
Patriots average starting position was the 18 yard line.
Patriots scored on 3 of 7 drives and would have been a 4th if not for Brady missing a WIDE OPEN Welker that would have ended the game.
People sometimes see a number yet fail to divulge what caused the number to happen.
Score would have been worse if not for the phantom hold on Boothe where wilfork even admitted to the ref during the game that he took a dive.
Check out the wins. The defense played well in almost every one including the game at NE (holding NE to the lowest point total in many years at home). The 2011 season wasn't about a QB carrying a team to wins.
The defense had many injuries. As they got healthy they played excellent ball and you saw it in the win total.
And that certainly wasn't the case in the playoffs when the defense shut down 2 of the best offenses of all time.
McNair and Manning shared it once.
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was so well regarded that it took him 6 years to get into the Hall.
It took Charles Haley close to 10 years. It took Ken Stabler over 30 years. It took Lynn Swann over 20 years.
I can never put my finger on the inconsistent nature of the selection process.
I find one thing interesting about that Steeler era. When they keep putting players in from those teams doesn't it diminish the others players already in? For example if you keep putting players on that offense in, doesn't it diminish what Bradshaw did or vice versa for the defense?
Ummm, for part of his career he had an excellent line and running game.
Especially knowing you are a solid and knowledgeable football fan and NYG fan.
I have no idea what you were watching.
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What Eli has done without a great offensive line, defense, or running game during his entire career is incredible.
Ummm, for part of his career he had an excellent line and running game.
I would say half of his career. From 05-12, they were very good in the ground. From 13’ on, it’s been disgusting.
Vs Brady at home they held them to 20 (lowest total in many years)
Personally, I think he gets in eventually. But he has had some very mediocre seasons, which will give some voters pause and likely delay his entry for a few years. I think this season will be a factor. He has weapons and if the protection is decent...then there are really few excuses for a bad year if he has one.
Ultimately, the Giants drafted Eli because they felt he could win them Superbowls. He did and that is really all that matters.
KWALL2 : 4:28 pm : link : reply
I've been down this path before. The 2011 defense had some of the worst games ever (NO and GB). However a loss is a loss. They also played outstanding in 2 losses (Was and Phi).
We lost to the Redskins twice. Once giving up 28 points and the other giving up 23 points. In the 23 point game, we gave up 123 rushing yards and 300 yards total.
In the Eagles loss, we gave up 127 rushing yards and 325 total yards.
If you give up 100+ yards on the ground, you didn't play outstanding.
Eli's best year? 2011.
But he did not carry the team especially in the playoffs vs some of the best offenses of all time.
The Steelers had a Top 3 scoring defense in 6/14 seasons and a Top 10 scoring defense in 9/14
The Giants have had a Top 3 scoring defense in 1/14 seasons, and a Top 10 scoring defense in 2/14 seasons.
The major difference between Ben and Eli is that the non-QB Steelers have been much better than the non-QB Giants over that span.
Ben misses games almost every year, and yet the Steelers don't fall off a cliff when that happens. Since they both took over the job to start a season (2005), Ben has only played a full season 3 times.
Since 2005 when Ben entered the season as the starter, the Steelers with back-up QBs are 13-10, a 54.5% of their games, which averages to 9.04 wins per season.
Those QB?
Charlie Batch: 9 starts
Tommy Maddox: 2 starts
Dennis Dixon: 3 starts
Byron Leftwich: 1 start
Michael Vick: 3 starts
Landry Jones: 5 starts
Meanwhile, since 2005, Eli Manning is 110-97, a 53.1% win percentage that averages out to 8.5 wins per year.
Foles would be trickier. He's never played a full 16 games as a starter and he's already 28. But if he ends up going to say the Chargers to replace Rivers and leads them to a SB as the MVP, playing 3-5 years there. He'd be in too. I would think.
But that's a lot of hypotheticals.
Right, and to take our little hypothetical (and ridiculous) scenarios to a new level... let's say Foles comes in at the end of the year again after another injury to Wentz. He wins another SB and then after that he fizzles out or gets a career ending injury. Now the guy has two SB victories on his resume but nothing more than that.
I suppose this is why winning a SB is important but is not the MOST important thing when determining whether someone gets into the HOF when it really is a team sport.
Vs WAS? One of Eli's worst.
The defense got turnovers early. 2 picks in first qtr. Eli handed it back.
10 of the 23 points came off Eli INTs in NYG territory.
Eli will be in top 7 of all time in yards and TDS
He will have 2 SB MVPs
Yet because of one stat where he struggles against his peers (INTs), that should dismiss him from it and the other stats should be ignored?
Hogwash.
The Giants schedule was a nightmare that season and Eli's play in the 4th quarter won probably a handful or a half dozen out of 13 total wins.
New England twice.
@ Dallas
@ Arizona
7 4th qr comebacks and 8 game-winning drives.
Go look at Green Bay that year. I'm pretty confident with a Matt Flynn-esque QB they could have won 9 or 10 games and still made the playoffs.
The 2011 Giants were 25th in the NFL in points allowed with 400 (25 PPG). That team is the only Super Bowl champion in history to concede that many points.
The first SB, not the 2nd.
Distinguish between these 2 careers
Player A
51,682 yards (6 all time)
339 TDs (8 all time)
4x Pro Bowl
2x SB champion
2x SB MVP
Player B
51,065 yards (8 all time)
329 TDs (9 all time)
2x SB champion
6x Pro Bowl
1x SB MVP.
But one is a lock and the other is out? I guess Eli’s 4 Pro Bowls “pales in comparison” to Ben’s 6 Pro Bowls?
2 Pro Bowls is the difference I guess? Come on
Especially since they acknowledge Eli’s “legendary”
Just to sum - the guy will more all time pass yards and TDs and more SB MVPs and the legendary playoff career is not the “lock”
Ben has 0 Super Bowl MVPs.
He was complete dogshit in his first Super Bowl win (when the officials teamed up with the Steelers to defeat the Seahawks), and Santonio Holmes won the MVP in Super Bowl XLIII (against the Cardinals).
I was. You know...the one where Eli led an 85 yard TD drive to take a 17-13 lead with 3 minutes left, only for the special teams to give NE the ball at the 36 on the kickoff, and then for the defense to let Brady go 64 yards in 1:18 to take the lead 20-17. Didn't matter, because Eli took the Giants 80 yards in 1:17 to win it with a TD to Ballard. And the entire fucking stadium knew he was going to do it as soon as he got the ball. You never heard a more nervous crowd.
Yeah, that one. But I guess the defense should be credited because they held Brady to 20 points. I guess the two critical TDs Eli threw in the final 3 minutes were because of the defense.
First one I agree 100%
2nd I’d argue that the offense ball control and giving NE poor field position as reason for the low point total. Pats scored in 3 of 7 drives and one that they didn’t Brady missed a wide open welker that would have ended the game. Pats only had the ball for 22 minutes and pretty much went up and down the field all game.
The giants had seven possession of 7 plays or more and the pats average field position was the 18 yard line. I would agree tuck and Blackburn made some great plays but the unit as a whole didn’t dominate the Pats like Kwall is suggesting.
They at home coming off a loss.
The defense dominated them.
3 and outs and TOs. 3 TOs before we scored a TD. how did we get the TD? Sack fumble at NE 10. Jacobs runs it in on the next play.
Next series?
Another 3 and out
But Giants fumble and give it back in NYG territory.
Defense holds again and only a FG.
Next series by NYG? 3 and out.
We punt. NE fumbles. We get the ball in NE territory. We get to the 5 yard line. Eli throws a pick from the 5.
He had an exceptional drive to win it. Yes he did. That doesn't eliminate the play by the D that kept them in the game.
The NYG D, vs one of the best ever, on the road, played exceptional ball. And held them to only 20. The lowest home total for Brady in his career.
And there were other games that season where Eli pulled a rabbit out of a hat after the defense fell apart in the fourth quarter. He brought the Giants back from 28-17 against Green Bay, only to have the defense give up 10 points in the last 3 minutes. They gave up a late TD to Vince Young and the Eagles in a 17-10 loss. In Dallas they entered the 4th quarter up 22-20, only to have the defense promptly give up 14 points. Eli cleaned up their mess with 2 TDs in the last 3 minutes. Just like in New England.
That defense sucked, I'm sorry. You could never count on them to get a stop when they needed it, and twice over the course of the season they were bailed out in huge spots by bad passes (Romo to Austin and Brady to Welker).
In their 13 total wins that season, Eli made HUGE COCK plays to win 7 of them in the fourth quarter...including the H-O-R-S-E - level throw to Manningham in the Super Bowl.
That year is Eli's.
Love it!!! Haha
Now why can't broadcast analysts adopt a unique expression like this?
If you want to make the tired "defense carried him" argument, you're better off heading to a Steelers site. Big Ben - who I also respect as a great QB - routinely played with top three NFL defenses in the first half of his career. Not sure Eli's ever had a top 10 defense to rely on, except the 11-5 season two years ago.
Funny how people think Eli's rep is based solely on his Super Bowl wins. In reality, the rep of the Giants defense has been GREATLY enhanced by a couple of Brady beatdowns, too.
Go look at Green Bay that year. I'm pretty confident with a Matt Flynn-esque QB they could have won 9 or 10 games and still made the playoffs.
Their offensive stats outside of Eli throwing for nearly 5,000 yards were so pathetic I think 4 wins would have been a stretch. Eli played out of his mind that year.
It was the closest thing you'll ever see in the NFL to a one man show.
Rodgers and the receivers were brutal as well. Drops, wide open misses. Game was over when Eli hit Nicks on the hail mary.
Highest scoring offense ever.
Best QB ever.
On the road
They had Ann extra week off.
They got GB off the field and got key turnovers.
GB was gifted a TD by the refs. Without it they held a team that scored 35+ a game to nothing.
That’s only “good”.
That's good stuff.
They gave up one TD in that game. The other was a 10 yard drive.
They had 3 TOs
Eli fumbled in the red zone with a minute left of a 1 score game.
But the D was the problem there?
Amazing.
No fan of football, looks at the NYG Super Bowl wins and thinks Eli. The NE offense was one of the best ever. We held them to 14 and 17. Thats why they won. That wasn't about the QB.
No one thinks of Derek Jeter when they think of the late 90’s Yankees. They think about the bullpen.
That's good stuff.
They gave up one TD in that game. The other was a 10 yard drive.
They had 3 TOs
Eli fumbled in the red zone with a minute left of a 1 score game.
But the D was the problem there?
Amazing.
No fan of football, looks at the NYG Super Bowl wins and thinks Eli. The NE offense was one of the best ever. We held them to 14 and 17. Thats why they won. That wasn't about the QB.
Yeah, I never see that Tyree play when Superbowl 42 is mentioned.
If we're going to downplay Eli Manning's contributions to Super Bowls 42 and 46, then nothing on earth makes any sense anymore.
I say this ONLY because we live in the FF era now.
Eli has FOUR guys that can not be covered "1 on 1" by most teams:
1. OBJ - he demands double teaming else he'll eat you up alive.
2. Saquon - he is going to catch a lot of balls against linebackers AND against safeties.
3. Engram - he will be running free down the seem an awful lot due to the attention OBJ and Saquon receive.
4. Shepard - as a slot guy, he is going to have his " break out" party this year.
We, of course, need to stay healthy and if we do Eli has no excuses this year.
4500, 40TD, 12 INT - why not?
You can just hear that old clip of Bill telling his defense it’s a Cruz and Nicks game and then Eli drops one in the bucket for Manningham basically for the win.
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stellar stat for Namath. In his 13 year career, he finished with more TD's than INT's 2 times!!
173 td's 220 int's and a career 50.1 completion percentage.
Yes but Eli doesn't wear woman's fur coats or wear panty hose.
Not surprising. I ve never seen a Giants player with a more loyal following than Eli.
Listening to the people who will make that decision, it s certainly not a slam dunk at this time.
KWALL2 : 4:45 pm : link : reply
...other giving up 23 points
Vs WAS? One of Eli's worst.
The defense got turnovers early. 2 picks in first qtr. Eli handed it back.
10 of the 23 points came off Eli INTs in NYG territory.
I'll say it again - the defense gave up 123 yards rushing and over 300 yards.
How is that outstanding??
A defense giving up over 100 yards isn't one that played outstanding. You're reaching big time.
Points allowed > yards allowed - all day and every day.
Same goes for the WAS game. The defense played well.
The QB was the problem in both looses.
Just as the defense was the problem in the GB, NO game. The Offense cost them these games.
Really? Chess?
NE offense was the best ever and scored 37 ppl.
Giants held them to 14.
That’s the story.
The NE defense allowed 17/game.
We scored how many? 17?
Thta was special to you?
Just give the fucking charade up. You don't allow 123 yards on the ground and play "outstanding" on D.
It is beyond ponderous right now
You know who is #2 alltime in completion %? Chad Pennington.
Kirk Cousins is #4
Meanwhile, Farve is by far the interception king. Marino, Peyton and itber HoFers populate the top 10.
Eli is tied with Brees at 2 more than Elway.
QBs are judged by TDs, yards and rings.
Prettiest throw I've ever seen, an exquisite perfect strike.
Greatest throw is Favre Min vs SF game winning TD.
2 scoring drives start inside giants territory.
They got 2 ints on first 3 possessions.
Offense all game? 3 and out or 3 INTs by Eli.
It was the closest thing you'll ever see in the NFL to a one man show.
I liked 2008 Eli best. Absolute f*cking surgeon. But the eSpn watching FF point queens don't like that season
Defense had a few good games at the end of the year. JPP was a beast that year... but the rest were underwhelming.
Eli was 30-40 in the SB. That’s insane and kept NE off the field for the majority of the game. Cause good thing he did because we really didn’t stop NE all game outside some poorly thrown balls by Brady.
Hell, we are talking about a poster who said Eli was a game manager in the playoffs while Mark Sanchez did more in two failed Jets runs.
I don't know what the bizarre motivation is here.
And by diminish on this thread you mean don’t agree he:
1. Was MVP of 201 over Rodgers
2. Carried the team to the SB.
3.. Was the main factor in the SB run of 2007 or 2011
4. On the same level as BR with the HOF resume
If that is it, then yes. I don’t agree, That’s me.
I also don’t have any hate for Eli.
I don’t think he’s the player many do here.
That is all.
I never liked the guy.
Maybe you meant my love for Palmer. But Sanchez? No chance I said he did more or did anything. You got that wrong.
Why don't we just say the D was bailed out by Brady missing Welker if that the fucking angle being taken?
But you don't have much middle ground. Instead of saying Eli and the D both played great, you've actually taken the asinine approach that eli was a "game manager" in the SB runs. You even have said he managed and took a back seat to the D.
A truly, truly moronic take. That you continue to stand by.
I mean when an otherwise reasonable poster takes a stance like that one has to wonder what the fucking motivation is? A history of trying to minimize Eli's accomplishments is just imbecelic
And by diminish on this thread you mean don’t agree he:
1. Was MVP of 201 over Rodgers
2. Carried the team to the SB.
3.. Was the main factor in the SB run of 2007 or 2011
4. On the same level as BR with the HOF resume
If that is it, then yes. I don’t agree, That’s me.
As far as number 1 - I had no problem with Rodgers being MVP, but I also think Eli had a MVP type year.
2. He was our best player that year and won many games for us and was absolutely OUTSTANDING in the playoffs.
3. 2007 he was not the main factor, but he did step up in the playoffs. 2011 - he was the main factor. His 2011 playoffs was one of the best ever by a QB if you consider the quality of competition that he played.
4. BR is still immensely overrated here. Yes, Eli has thrown more INTs and Ben competes a higher % percentage. Eli has reamined healthier and has played on lesser teams. In fact, with the talent surrounded by Ben - maybe they should have won more! Ben's lowest may not be as bad as Eli, but Eli's 2007 playoff run and all of 2011 is something that Ben has not produced.
You're absolutely nuts if you don't think a two time SB MVP that will rank in the top ten in multiple categories does not belong in the HoF
You've literally tried to say that the D played outstanding in two regular season losses while maintaining the Eli was just along for the ride.
That's how far gone this debate is. Focusing on propping up the D in regular season losses
Ponderous, ponderous shit.
Roughly 18-31% of all QBs make the pro-bowl every year.
In a 14 year career, Eli only has 4 pro-bowl appearances.
Not exactly a glowing endorsement for an event that's not very difficult to get elected.
Roughly 18-31% of all QBs make the pro-bowl every year.
In a 14 year career, Eli only has 4 pro-bowl appearances.
Not exactly a glowing endorsement for an event that's not very difficult to get elected.
Cause a year when Eli threw for 4400 yards and 30 TDs to 14 INTs wasnt good enough to get in but Andy Dalton who threw for 3400 yards 19 TDs and 17 INTs did.
Think the pro bowl validates.... anyone?
The Welker miss? Thta was another easy catch. Walker missed it. Not Brady. Terrible adjustment on a ball he saw. He had several steps to adjust. Reached back and dropped it.
But thtat is just one play. If NE makes the play what does that mean? Win or lose? The NYG defense setill played well and kept a great offense well below their normal point total.
But thtat is just one play. If NE makes the play what does that mean? Win or lose? The NYG defense setill played well and kept a great offense well below their normal point total.
1. Yes, if he makes the catch - we lose.
2. Defense didnt play well. It played alright. Offense and special teams were better. 37 minutes of long sustained drives kept NE off the field. You keep ignoring this.
Without the gifts from the offense WAS is under 15 points.
I’ll call under 15 outstanding.
Especially while the offense has 3 picks and a bunch of 3 and outs.
Think the pro bowl validates.... anyone?
Doesn't validate but speaks to the pulse of the fan and how they view the worth of QBs.
I mean, 10 QBs made it to the pro-bowl that year.
If fans viewed Eli as a HOF, surely he would have made the pro-bowl more often.
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Cause a year when Eli threw for 4400 yards and 30 TDs to 14 INTs wasnt good enough to get in but Andy Dalton who threw for 3400 yards 19 TDs and 17 INTs did.
Think the pro bowl validates.... anyone?
Doesn't validate but speaks to the pulse of the fan and how they view the worth of QBs.
I mean, 10 QBs made it to the pro-bowl that year.
If fans viewed Eli as a HOF, surely he would have made the pro-bowl more often.
Most fans dont even know what a dive, trap, or slant is. I hope they have no say in the HOF decision.
I don’t think he was on the level of many. I think there were other factors that lead the team to both SB. I strongly believe the defense was a bigger factor in both SB runs. That doesn’t mean I think he was along for a ride.
Cant we say the same thing about you?
2011 Eli-I can’t even believe that this is a question. He was absolutely fantastic. The Dallas game in Dallas, the beating he took in the NFCCG, the throw in the Super Bowl-he was playing at an MVP level. If not for Eli and JPP that team would have crashed and burned-the defense SUCKED for 3/4ths of the season (they were among the worst statiscally before the Jet game) and they also couldn’t run the ball worth a dump. So while we can point to a few bad games the offense had-you were literally in the shitter because your defense couldn’t stop anybody.
You can go back and jazz that one up with stats but by eye everyone was completely sick of the defense right before the comeback in Dallas at the end. If you had a mediocre defense with the way Eli was playing, they would have won division by 4 games. It was only very good after the Jet game (and I hate to say it but Jets helped us tremendously in that game by not running the ball 50 times).
Whats it been...2 weeks since I read the last one?
To quote the late great Judge Smails - “Don’t you people have homes??”.
Whats it been...2 weeks since I read the last one?
To quote the late great Judge Smails - “Don’t you people have homes??”.
If he had only one, would we be saying he needs TWO to certainly get in?? LOL
The guy has two, and was front and center (particularly the 2nd game) in winning those games. Not to mention how he played during the rest of those playoff runs.
imo, the years post sb champ..has hurt him and knocked a few pegs down as a "sure" thing..cant deny that looking objectively
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pros and cons on why he is or isn’t HOF worthy, or if he is or isn’t Elite, or if he is or isn’t a contributing factor to the team’s recent decline.
Whats it been...2 weeks since I read the last one?
To quote the late great Judge Smails - “Don’t you people have homes??”.
It's not really the thread that is (to you) a re-hash. It was ESPN. IMO, a thread about a current ESPN thing is relevant. I think your issue should be more with Bristol than with BBI.
Then you didn’t read the thread...
How do you explain the drive in Dallas just before halftime that Eli engineered and turned that game in our favor?
Also, how many QBs do you think there are in the history of this league that go into a frozen Lambeau Field totally unfazed and execute an offensive plan the way Eli did? Favre has a reputation as one of the toughest QBs in history and the weather had him begging for mercy that day.
Again, the defense was terrific. What they did to that Pats offense was historic, but Eli walked on to the field down 14-10 for all the marbles and stuck it up New England's ass.
So much of who Eli is and what he does goes beyond stats that if stats are your only argument it's almost as if you're missing the point.
Whats it been...2 weeks since I read the last one?
To quote the late great Judge Smails - “Don’t you people have homes??”.
I like to quote Shooter MacGavin. "Damn you people. Go back to your shanties."
People will look back on Manning's career years from now and point to the SB highlights and the start streak. To me, the defining highlight for Eli has to be the playoff game versus the 49ers where he took a massive beating all four quarters and still kept coming. He was under siege for much of the game and kept making plays despite facing a very good and physical Niners defense.
And to a certain extent, that performance is almost a metaphor for his entire career. Beset on multiple fronts from many who would take their shots at him. And with ice in his veins, he shrugs it off and just keeps his cool and continues to chug along. Not flashy, no over-the-top wow factor... Just a professional that shows up and does his job to the best of us ability. And when all the other parts of the equation come together and the football gods smile upon us, we win a couple Lombardis.
If you need to tear apart the game logs to find the plays that support your perspective -- probably means "great" is an exaggeration. Great should be obvious.
If you need to tear apart the game logs to find the plays that support your perspective -- probably means "great" is an exaggeration. Great should be obvious.
Eli Manning led 7 4th quarter comebacks in the regular season, and broke the record for fourth quarter TD's, previously held in a tie by Johnny Unitas and Peyton Manning. I'd say that was a pretty great performance by the QB.
The throw to Mario Manningham on the final drive was also pretty great. At least that's what I've heard people say.
Lighting up the 15-1 Packers in Lambeau (again) was also a pretty great performance.
Probably the pernicious influence of FF.
Lighting up the 15-1 Packers in Lambeau (again) was also a pretty great performance.
I'm referring to the Super Bowl win, not the playoffs in general. Manning had 2 better games in the playoffs that year. It was a great year for him. The performance against a middle of the pack Pats D doesn't hit the great Mark for me.
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and hanging in there having to drop back 56 times to pass was a pretty great performance.
Lighting up the 15-1 Packers in Lambeau (again) was also a pretty great performance.
I'm referring to the Super Bowl win, not the playoffs in general. Manning had 2 better games in the playoffs that year. It was a great year for him. The performance against a middle of the pack Pats D doesn't hit the great Mark for me.
30/40, 296 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT's, 103.8 QB Rating.
Game winning drive with unbelievably clutch deep, pinpoint accurate throw to Manningham on the final drive to get us out of the inside of our own 10 yard line and moving.
We had 25 first downs on offense in the game, and 18 of them were passes. We had the ball for nearly 40 minutes on offense keeping Brady off the field.
What's the definition of great?
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and hanging in there having to drop back 56 times to pass was a pretty great performance.
Lighting up the 15-1 Packers in Lambeau (again) was also a pretty great performance.
I'm referring to the Super Bowl win, not the playoffs in general. Manning had 2 better games in the playoffs that year. It was a great year for him. The performance against a middle of the pack Pats D doesn't hit the great Mark for me.
I think some may have views the game differently if the red didn’t blow the holding call in boothe. We were up 9-3 at the time and Jacobs got a huge gain. We would have went in at half at worst 12-3 but instead we had to punt. Brady took them for a TD before half and one to start half. So it became a 17-9 game.
A TD before half and a 16-3 game would have given it a much different feel. Still Eli was 30-40.... pretty damn good.
So outside of a blowout win with a couple more TD's, which nobody did or should have expected, I don't see what else he could have done to be "great".
When you have arguments trying to prop up the D as being great in two games where they allowed 120+ yards rushing in some bizarre way to lessen Eli's accomplishments, you are dealing with posters whose argumentation is simply bizarre.
If people didn't think Eli played great in both Super Bowls, no player should be said to have a great game. It would be like taking Phil Simms SB and going "meh".
It is like saying both Eli and the D played excellent somehow lessens one or the other's accomplishments.
I keep saying ponderous because there are very few other words to describe this line of argumentation.
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In comment 14028484 Britt in VA said:
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and hanging in there having to drop back 56 times to pass was a pretty great performance.
Lighting up the 15-1 Packers in Lambeau (again) was also a pretty great performance.
I'm referring to the Super Bowl win, not the playoffs in general. Manning had 2 better games in the playoffs that year. It was a great year for him. The performance against a middle of the pack Pats D doesn't hit the great Mark for me.
I think some may have views the game differently if the red didn’t blow the holding call in boothe. We were up 9-3 at the time and Jacobs got a huge gain. We would have went in at half at worst 12-3 but instead we had to punt. Brady took them for a TD before half and one to start half. So it became a 17-9 game.
A TD before half and a 16-3 game would have given it a much different feel. Still Eli was 30-40.... pretty damn good.
Dep -- as the half started to wind down I thought the Giants were about to blow it open. That hold was a major turning point.
I'm not knocking his performance, he had a very efficient, virtual mistake free game. And he was clutch as ways that season in the final moments. 75% completion percentage, and effective ball control.
In my opinion the 3 previous games that playoffs were better for different reasons. I don't think Eli gets enough credit for the demoralizing hit job he put on Atlanta. That was the most surgical, early tap out of that era.
While that certainly doesn't diminish the two SB years, it does put a ding on his overall post season performance.
2 of them were very poor individual performances from him, 1 of which was his first ever playoff game.
Another loss was a hard fought game on the road in which he played ok, neither great nor poorly.
In his 4th and most recent playoff loss, you'd really be grasping for straws if you wanted to lay that one at the feet of Eli Manning. There were a bunch of guys unprepared to play that day. Eli Manning was not one of them.
To recap, Eli has played poorly in 2 out of 12 postseason games and you actually have Giants fans trying to blanket him with some kind of troubling playoff performance pattern.
Unbelievable.
Eli is about as consistently inconsistent of any player I've ever watched.
His highs are as high as the greatest players in the game. Brady, Montana, anyone. He's carried his team to SB victories and put up monster games in those playoff runs. He's had great seasons that compare with the best.
However, his lows are as low as anyone. He's had games where he's looked like the worst QB in history, including a playoff game or 2.
All that being said, the goal is to win games and win SB's and Eli has been an intregal part to multiple SB winning teams. I don't know how he isn't a HOF player, although much like his career, I expect it to be highly debated for years after he retires. I do think he will get in eventually.
Keith : 11:53 am : link : reply
on any of my teams in my life. Tons of people love him, tons of people hate him. Giants fans and opposing fans alike. Not many are indifferent.
I get the other team's fans disliking Eli, but when our own fans act ungrateful for what he's done it boggles my mind.
Giants fans who dislike Eli, even a little are fucked up. Non-controversial. He just goes out and plays and was part of two historic teams. It isn't like he's some brash asswipe like Favre where I could at least see people pissed at his personality.
Hell, I bet Cam Newton gets more respect from Panther fans (who still dab en masse) while people here debate how even in his best years, Eli was a spectator to a powerhouse D.
Eli is about as consistently inconsistent of any player I've ever watched.
His highs are as high as the greatest players in the game. Brady, Montana, anyone. He's carried his team to SB victories and put up monster games in those playoff runs. He's had great seasons that compare with the best.
The HOF voters who splooge over stats will have no choice but to factor that in when Eli’s career stats are in the books and he’s ranked in the top 5-10. And that’s not even factoring in his 2 SB MVPs..
However, his lows are as low as anyone. He's had games where he's looked like the worst QB in history, including a playoff game or 2.
All that being said, the goal is to win games and win SB's and Eli has been an intregal part to multiple SB winning teams. I don't know how he isn't a HOF player, although much like his career, I expect it to be highly debated for years after he retires. I do think he will get in eventually.
I will bring up another point although I don't want to get into this argument on this thread BUT, Odell Beckham is shown more respect from a lot of Giants fans than Eli Manning. That doesn't sit right with me either. But again, the topic at hand here is Eli.
Eli is about as consistently inconsistent of any player I've ever watched.
His highs are as high as the greatest players in the game. Brady, Montana, anyone. He's carried his team to SB victories and put up monster games in those playoff runs. He's had great seasons that compare with the best.
However, his lows are as low as anyone. He's had games where he's looked like the worst QB in history, including a playoff game or 2.
All that being said, the goal is to win games and win SB's and Eli has been an intregal part to multiple SB winning teams. I don't know how he isn't a HOF player, although much like his career, I expect it to be highly debated for years after he retires. I do think he will get in eventually.
By this line of thought, we should question whether Montana and Rice should be in the HoF, they were always pedestrian at best versus the Giants.
I always felt they are overrated through my Giants fan perspective.
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on any of my teams in my life. Tons of people love him, tons of people hate him. Giants fans and opposing fans alike. Not many are indifferent.
Eli is about as consistently inconsistent of any player I've ever watched.
His highs are as high as the greatest players in the game. Brady, Montana, anyone. He's carried his team to SB victories and put up monster games in those playoff runs. He's had great seasons that compare with the best.
The HOF voters who splooge over stats will have no choice but to factor that in when Eli’s career stats are in the books and he’s ranked in the top 5-10. And that’s not even factoring in his 2 SB MVPs..
However, his lows are as low as anyone. He's had games where he's looked like the worst QB in history, including a playoff game or 2.
All that being said, the goal is to win games and win SB's and Eli has been an intregal part to multiple SB winning teams. I don't know how he isn't a HOF player, although much like his career, I expect it to be highly debated for years after he retires. I do think he will get in eventually.
Keith, The HOF voters who splooge over stats will have no choice but to factor that in when Eli’s career stats are in the books and he’s ranked in the top 5-10. And that’s not even factoring in his 2 SB MVPs..
So outside of a blowout win with a couple more TD's, which nobody did or should have expected, I don't see what else he could have done to be "great".
If great is the top echelon, I'd put the 2011 NFCC there -- that was against a far superior defense, in absolutely brutal weather, on an absolutely terrible field. Manning played near perfect intellectual and physical football that game. He sacrificed his body, held onto to the football hit after hit and struck when he had the opportunity.
That 9ers team will end up with a Missing Rings America's Game. We will look back at Manning as the primary reason they didn't get to back-to-back Super Bowls.
That's what I think history will judge as a great performance. Again no knock on the Super Bowl. Very good, efficient, smart performance. I just don't think it hits the "great" marker.
I will bring up another point although I don't want to get into this argument on this thread BUT, Odell Beckham is shown more respect from a lot of Giants fans than Eli Manning. That doesn't sit right with me either. But again, the topic at hand here is Eli.
Hah! "I don't want to get into this argument on this thread, but I'll throw this out there so I can bitch about Odell Beckham even more."
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Eli is the most polarizing player
Keith : 11:53 am : link : reply
on any of my teams in my life. Tons of people love him, tons of people hate him. Giants fans and opposing fans alike. Not many are indifferent.
I get the other team's fans disliking Eli, but when our own fans act ungrateful for what he's done it boggles my mind.
Giants fans who dislike Eli, even a little are fucked up. Non-controversial. He just goes out and plays and was part of two historic teams. It isn't like he's some brash asswipe like Favre where I could at least see people pissed at his personality.
Hell, I bet Cam Newton gets more respect from Panther fans (who still dab en masse) while people here debate how even in his best years, Eli was a spectator to a powerhouse D.
I'm like Terps in this regard... Eli Manning hand delivered two of the greatest sports moments in my life. I'll be forever grateful and I'll never forget them.
Because his post-season performance would be the major reason he gets into the HOF. But it's not without flaws.
Eli is not getting in on his regular season play.
However, you all are confusing "dislike" versus those that simply bring some critical reality to how he has played poorly at times in his career, moreso as of late as both he and the team have been in fairly noticeable decline.
We all hope he (and the team) bounces back this season; otherwise I don't see why you would be on this site...
2 of them were very poor individual performances from him, 1 of which was his first ever playoff game.
Another loss was a hard fought game on the road in which he played ok, neither great nor poorly.
In his 4th and most recent playoff loss, you'd really be grasping for straws if you wanted to lay that one at the feet of Eli Manning. There were a bunch of guys unprepared to play that day. Eli Manning was not one of them.
To recap, Eli has played poorly in 2 out of 12 postseason games and you actually have Giants fans trying to blanket him with some kind of troubling playoff performance pattern.
Unbelievable.
And I'd be cast out if I said both SBs were won because of the D-Line.
I'd be further cast out by saying more QB's have won SB MVP than any other position combined.
You can scrutinize and pick apart both the good and the bad.
However, you all are confusing "dislike" versus those that simply bring some critical reality to how he has played poorly at times in his career, moreso as of late as both he and the team have been in fairly noticeable decline.
We all hope he (and the team) bounces back this season; otherwise I don't see why you would be on this site...
What does that have to do with Eli?
Eli is not a GREAT regular season QB.
Thus, he needs a GREAT post season in order to compensate.
And he is feast or famine in the post season.
HOF = the best of the best.
If great is the top echelon, I'd put the 2011 NFCC there -- that was against a far superior defense, in absolutely brutal weather, on an absolutely terrible field. Manning played near perfect intellectual and physical football that game. He sacrificed his body, held onto to the football hit after hit and struck when he had the opportunity.
Eli certainly came up big in that NFCC game. Tough as nails and will always remember that strike to Mario.
But recall he had some fortunate plays in that game where he got a bit "loose" with the ball (a fumble early recovered by an Olineman, and 2 fairly easy interceptions where SF players in the secondary collided with one another).
However, all superbowl winners need to have the ball bounce their way as well...
I'm not taking away from what Eli did, but surely the D had a massive influence in that win.
I again struggle on why that concept is tough to grasp.
Probably the pernicious influence of FF.
Never understood posters who throw around "never understood" when they've been on BBI for five months.
Drew Brees missed the playoffs a bunch of times too. Funny how no one brings that up.
Eli played a terrific level from 05-2012. Never perfect, but he he was good more often than not and LEGENDARY on two long and glorious occasions. Add that up, fuck faces, that’s very very very very close to hof status. Add in the compiling years and the exemplified nature Eli has carried himself. And let’s not forget his career isn’t over...
I’ve said it 100 times now. Sometimes a very good player can have a great career. Sometimes a flawed player can do just enough to warrant HOF consideration. The HOF, right or wrong, isn’t there for the perfect player. Many of the inductees are flawed but did enough.
Some of you aren’t objective.
However, you all are confusing "dislike" versus those that simply bring some critical reality to how he has played poorly at times in his career, moreso as of late as both he and the team have been in fairly noticeable decline.
We all hope he (and the team) bounces back this season; otherwise I don't see why you would be on this site...
googs with only truely objective view, unlike most on this site about eli, nails it.
Arguing that isn't bringing critical reality to playing poorly at times, it is directly trying to diminish the SB wins and Eli's impact on them.
Heck, KWALL above even makes a comment about Samuel missing an "easy" INT in the context that Eli got away with luck to win, yet says Welker dropping a pass, even if it led to a loss, wouldn't diminish how great the D played.
A take like that really can't get much more moronic and it has nothing to do with years of decline - it is specific to the SB game
My only issue with the criticism of Eli over the past handful of years is that I don't know if I could differentiate between good QB play and bad QB play over the last 5+ years with the state of this offensive line who couldn't pass protect or run block, a nonexistent run game, and a carousel at WR and TE.
For a pocket-passing QB, what was Eli supposed to do? Matt Ryan was the MVP in 2016. If he were in this situation the last few years, would we have seen an offense light it up? I doubt it highly.
but he has 1-3 years left in his career..
I think if he has good stat years and/or giants make playoffs
he will probably make it into HoF.
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However, you all are confusing "dislike" versus those that simply bring some critical reality to how he has played poorly at times in his career, moreso as of late as both he and the team have been in fairly noticeable decline
Arguing that isn't bringing critical reality to playing poorly at times, it is directly trying to diminish the SB wins and Eli's impact on them.
Heck, KWALL above even makes a comment about Samuel missing an "easy" INT in the context that Eli got away with luck to win, yet says Welker dropping a pass, even if it led to a loss, wouldn't diminish how great the D played.
A take like that really can't get much more moronic and it has nothing to do with years of decline - it is specific to the SB game
Yeah, but you just continue to argue with a fairly minute number of posters that have gone too far with their views on a particular topic, but extrapolate it over a greater population of posters that don't really exist on here.
A take like that really can't get much more moronic either...
But keep going with the contrarian routine. It's working well for you.
Googs last part was good. I know there are some with an irrational hatred of Eli, but there are also some who rationalize all his poor to mediocre performances.
I'm afraid that Eli has become a QB viewed by many just as one who cannot lift his team, because he has done so in the past, but the reality is that every time one of his defenders brings up his poor surrounding cast they reinforce that perception. Looking forward, if Eli has a renaissance in the next couple of years some will point to the amazing weapons he has and suggest that other QBs would have done just as well or better than him. If the offensive futility continues, especially if it's the result of terrible oline play, the divide between detractors and supporters will only get wider.
Overall you might disagree with the arguments put forth on either side on this thread, those putting them forth are knowledgeable fans who have passionately followed his career for many years. Those viewpoints shouldn't be readily dismissed imo.
Rivers is a tense competitor and he shows it. He gets fired up and he's very emotional. Fans love to see that shit. He moves around the pocket very well and while he has a unique throwing motion, he makes some pretty crazy throws from different positions.
Roethlisberger is fearless in the pocket and guys just dangle from him as he makes throws sometimes. He's big, tough and throws a great ball.
There's nothing pretty about Eli Manning. He doesn't throw the prettiest ball and he shows 0 emotion. You can't tell if it's game 1 of the preseason or the SB by looking at him. He just stands in the pocket and makes his reads.
It is "ponderous, boggles my mind and is simply bizarre"...
Eli Manning — It's a pretty safe bet that he and Peyton will be the first brothers in the Hall. Eli — MVP in the Giants' two Super Bowl wins — should be among some elite company on the all-time career passing lists by the time his career is complete, despite his overall uneven resume.
Ranking current NFL players' chances of Pro Football Hall of Fame enshrinement - ( New Window )
...
Overall you might disagree with the arguments put forth on either side on this thread, those putting them forth are knowledgeable fans who have passionately followed his career for many years. Those viewpoints shouldn't be readily dismissed imo.
good post Dan...
Jimmy Googs : 7:34 pm : link : reply
and next it becomes "all the Giant fans that dislike Eli" as if there is a club of posters that fit neatly in your latest fit.
Nope. There's the direct debate of addressing a single poster's specifics while also discussing that there are many people who have the stance that eli doesn't belong in the HoF.
On this thread alone, I count 9 of those posters.
And there certainly is a club of posters here who dislike Eli. Some who exist only to post negatively about him. You really are saying there isn't?
I think I just saw you "goose-stepping" down the streets of Berlin on the History Channel...
Not the jackass making a Nazi reference whop never makes a point but just acts like the Defender of the minority opinion.
Like I said before - that schtick has been done already by Radar and it went over about as well for him as it does you.
You really are a piece of fucking work.
There's the direct debate of addressing a single poster's specifics while also discussing that there are many people who have the stance that eli doesn't belong in the HoF.
On this thread alone, I count 9 of those posters.
Do you have "those" posters addresses as well?
Well done.
I again struggle on why that concept is tough to grasp.
You struggle because you're taking this entirely out of context to the current discussion.
But when you go into your bashing-mode on any poster/theme that expresses opinions contra to the Giants front office, coaches or players, then we become unaligned.
Find a balance of mocking the knuckleheads versus those that truly have a different opinion than you on areas that are truly debatable...
Praise his 2 SB wins, but also blame him for four 'one and out' playoff appearances.
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and/or performance?
What does that have to do with Eli?
Eli is not a GREAT regular season QB.
Thus, he needs a GREAT post season in order to compensate.
And he is feast or famine in the post season.
HOF = the best of the best.
Uh, he has had a great career postseason.
If you want to ignore the 0-4 postseason record in non-SB seasons, then yes...outstanding postseason career.
Unfortunately, not all members of the Selection Committee are Giants fans. They will take this into consideration.
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Uh, he has had a great career postseason.
If you want to ignore the 0-4 postseason record in non-SB seasons, then yes...outstanding postseason career.
Unfortunately, not all members of the Selection Committee are Giants fans. They will take this into consideration.
No they won’t.
1-He will place somewhere near or in the top 5 all-time in stats. Splooge-worthy to HOF voters. He’s NOT an “amasser” of stats like Testaverde or Bettis, albeit one got in
2-He won TWO MVP TROPHIES IN SBs. Not many have accomplished that this side of Brady, Montana and Bradshaw, to name a few. Won TWO SBs? Yes. There are a bunch, i.e. Plunkett..TWO MVPs on the world’s biggest stage? No, not too many
Phil Simms took a lot of abuse while he played and never really got the reorganization or appreciation for his accomplishments until years after he retired. He still has a few detractors.
Eli Manning is the same. He is criticized for his negatives and success gets negated by crediting the defense and luck.
The facts are that Eli is a 2 time Superbowl champion and 2 time Superbowl MVP. Eli has had many late 4th heroic comebacks and has put up numbers that rival his contemporaries.
The giants Superbowl runs with Eli at the helm are 2 of the biggest historical runs in NFL history. Lambeau field against the packers in freezing temperatures. Beating the undefeated patriots. Championship game against the 49ers where Eli took one of the biggest beatings i have seen any quarterback take in the playoffs and still lead the team to a win. The combined records of the teams the giants beat in the playoffs to Superbowl championships. 2007 (51-13) and 2011 (51-13) and they did it on the road with the exception of 1 game against the falcons at home.
In the end it will be debated and Eli will still have his detractors among the media, hall of fame voters and fans alike, but he will eventually be voted in and rightfully so
The guy isn't even done with his body of work yet for christ sake. And even if he was, the amount of stat-gathering and analytical comparisons by you knuckleheads means nothing unless you want to tell me you actually vote.
There is a difference between talking Giants-stuff during slow summer months and arguing so adamantly about an event that will not even be relevant for a minimum of at least 6 more years.
lord...
The guy isn't even done with his body of work yet for christ sake. And even if he was, the amount of stat-gathering and analytical comparisons by you knuckleheads means nothing unless you want to tell me you actually vote.
There is a difference between talking Giants-stuff during slow summer months and arguing so adamantly about an event that will not even be relevant for a minimum of at least 6 more years.
lord...
well..its BBI a site full of knuckleheads
The guy isn't even done with his body of work yet for christ sake. And even if he was, the amount of stat-gathering and analytical comparisons by you knuckleheads means nothing unless you want to tell me you actually vote.
There is a difference between talking Giants-stuff during slow summer months and arguing so adamantly about an event that will not even be relevant for a minimum of at least 6 more years.
lord...
Why does it bother you so much whenever there is people who speak Pro-Eli. You claim you are tired and borish if these threads, yet you make sure you post your negative opinions on them all the time?
Whenever there is a pro-eli thread, it’s a guarantee you will come to be negative on it as it is guarantee guys like me and Britt speak positively on it. The only difference it’s normal to chime in when trying to be positive.
you're like a conditioned hamster running on his wheel when you post...
you're like a conditioned hamster running on his wheel when you post...
I can say the same about you running in circles.
And saying you’re objective, doesn’t make you objective. There was an article discussing Eli and it’s controversial and you’re shitting on posters for debating it. Your first comment in the thread was “wasn’t it just two weeks ago we had this discussion”.
It’s just odd.
Dynamite drop in Monty, that broadcast school has really paid off.