Adam Schefter
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Cleveland is trading former first-round pick WR Corey Coleman to the Buffalo Bills for a draft pick, per source.
Coleman was the player the Browns selected after trading the No. 2 overall pick to Philadelphia so the Eagles could draft Carson Wentz.
They didn’t use him enough. Coaches were wrong there. He’ll get a bigger role with the new staff.
They didn’t use him enough. Coaches were wrong there. He’ll get a bigger role with the new staff.
No, me telling you that Cohen would be limited because of the coaching staff was the great call.
arcarsenal : 3/10/2016 9:00 am : link
Treadwell reminds me of Alshon. He's going to be really good. I think he'll get picked before us, actually.
I love Corey Coleman too but I don't think the value is there taking him @ 10.
Ok, I’ll admit it. We were wrong on Coleman...but you were wrong on Treadwell too.
I do feel better about clearing that up and getting it on the record.
Treadwell in top 10 - ( New Window )
Quote:
arcarsenal : 3/10/2016 9:00 am : link
Treadwell reminds me of Alshon. He's going to be really good. I think he'll get picked before us, actually.
I love Corey Coleman too but I don't think the value is there taking him @ 10.
Ok, I’ll admit it. We were wrong on Coleman...but you were wrong on Treadwell too.
I do feel better about clearing that up and getting it on the record. Treadwell in top 10 - ( New Window )
I see you did some digging of your own. :)
I was definitely wrong about Treadwell. 100%. Not the last time I'll whiff on a college prospect I'm sure.
Well, "one of the biggest stories in the NFL" and "maybe one of the best offensive players in the league" were also the calls.
I still think he has tremendous upside with a more competent organization and better health.
There's Josh Gordon and......?
Coleman has plenty of upside and maybe he'll put it together in Buffalo. But so far he hasn't been anything special even when he has played.
5 TD's in 19 games. One career 100+ yard game. 6 catches in a game is his career high.
He has talent but he really hasn't been that good. I guess we could blame the Browns, but Gordon managed to be much better on the same crappy team.
There's Josh Gordon and......?
Coleman has plenty of upside and maybe he'll put it together in Buffalo. But so far he hasn't been anything special even when he has played.
5 TD's in 19 games. One career 100+ yard game. 6 catches in a game is his career high.
He has talent but he really hasn't been that good. I guess we could blame the Browns, but Gordon managed to be much better on the same crappy team.
Coleman may just be a later bloomer than Gordon. The guy has been battling endless hand injuries. But he’s shown very interesting flashes.
And let’s face it, Gordon may be the best receiver in football. The guy is an animal. So Coleman not being as good isn’t a bad thing....
They just didn't use him enough. He made some big plays for them. He won the Steeler game by himself. He had the winning TD but they called him out (he wasnt)
About the call in FF. It was a good one.
About the one of the best offensive players? I believe it. We'll see.
Browns had brutal QB play too. The one thing about Coleman is he's super explosive and he can get open.
Hanging out with Kenny Britt didn't help either. They got suspended together for a game.
Its wake up call time for him. They dumped him for nothing. But hes leaving the Browns which is cause for celebration for any player. Time to make prove them wrong or right. We'll see.
Arc...I was looking for a comment from Gator on Treadwell and couldn't pass up that find. You "Loved" him too. Hahahaha
Browns had brutal QB play too. The one thing about Coleman is he's super explosive and he can get open.
Hanging out with Kenny Britt didn't help either. They got suspended together for a game.
Its wake up call time for him. They dumped him for nothing. But hes leaving the Browns which is cause for celebration for any player. Time to make prove them wrong or right. We'll see.
Arc...I was looking for a comment from Gator on Treadwell and couldn't pass up that find. You "Loved" him too. Hahahaha
Make sure you go ahead and share what you found about me supposedly loving Treadwell. Or is this an extension of your complete unwillingness to admit when you're wrong?
Now, it was the coaching staffs fault.
Here's the thing - with sleepers it can be a myriad of people's fault because you are dealing with players who will have limited touches, sporadic usage and wildly inconsistent games.
But KWALL insisted that Cohen was not only going to tear it up but would be a star. There are several players like that each year. They seem like an awesome value in the 9th round, but if you utilize them as starters, the values goes right out the window.
If you want to start a RB that might get 12 touches one week and 4 the next, have at it, but coming back and saying it was a great pick but the coaching staff was the problem is horseshit.
They just didn't use him enough. He made some big plays for them. He won the Steeler game by himself. He had the winning TD but they called him out (he wasnt)
About the call in FF. It was a good one.
About the one of the best offensive players? I believe it. We'll see.
"They just didn't use him enough" - That's exactly what I told you would happen and why he ultimately wouldn't be the FF stud you were trying to project.
He hit double digits in the first 3 games, and then had 3 more such games the rest of the season. He was worth a shot with a last round pick, but if you relied on him as a weekly starter he lost you your fantasy league.
Now, it was the coaching staffs fault.
Here's the thing - with sleepers it can be a myriad of people's fault because you are dealing with players who will have limited touches, sporadic usage and wildly inconsistent games.
But KWALL insisted that Cohen was not only going to tear it up but would be a star. There are several players like that each year. They seem like an awesome value in the 9th round, but if you utilize them as starters, the values goes right out the window.
If you want to start a RB that might get 12 touches one week and 4 the next, have at it, but coming back and saying it was a great pick but the coaching staff was the problem is horseshit.
If you ignore the coaching staff from your analysis in how you think a player will perform, then you aren't doing your analysis correctly.
Cohen had a place on a roster. As a handcuff to Howard and as a player to stash should he get more touches as the year went on. I actually had him on two teams and don't think I played him because his best games were very early on.
Using him in the "hope" that you'd pick the one or a couple times he'd get production is the type of crapshoot that leads to losing FF games. And I should know since I lose a shitload playing actual starters!
No. Mistake. Especially on that team. They should have created more plays for him. Thta was a mistake. Id bet on this staff doing it.
About FF, I didn’t rely on any last round pick to start. I thought it was a great value pick so I posted and made my case for a super talented guy and how he could help a ff team, and how he may be much bigger than anybody expected. I have won plenty of leagues with this type of pick.
How the coaches would use him? You didn’t know shit about that. That wasn’t part of my “analysis” but was on your end? Sure. They held him back late in preseason and then instantly gave him a lot of action in regular season. They switched QBs. They had a lot of injuries. But even with that, those coaches made a mistake not creating more for Cohen.
My guess was they would use him more and he would benefit from dump offs from a rookie QB and a losing team. He had 130 touches on the year. I expected more. I was wrong. Great call out on a great late round value pick about a FF player.
Instead, it wasn't a great late round value pick when you kept insisting he should be in a FF starting lineup. Then he becomes a below average FF starter.
Are you purposely missing this aspect or YAJ's point about understanding how the team would utilize him??
I said he didn’t know shit about it.
He knew how they would use him? Really?
From week 1 he got a heavy workload. He knew that?
Then they cut it while injuries piled up and they switched QBs in week 4 or 5. Once the rookie came in completions stopped for everybody. 12, 8, 4, 14. Thats the completions by the QB in the next 4 games. The QB wasn’t ready but they could have made it easier on him. He knew this?
The bears defense kept them in these games despite nothing from the offense. Part of my bet on Cohen was cheap receptions at the end of games in blowouts. It didn’t happen.
It was a mistake not to take steps to get your most explosive player the ball especially when playing a rookie. They didnt do it. They got fired.
Yes, I though he would get more action. After watching him, it’s clear to me the coaches blew it by not giving it to him.
New coaches there now. I’d bet on them not making the same mistake.
Yaj? His analysis in usage was limited to this:
That’s it,
And then in week 1 and 2 Cohen got 20 passing targets and 30+ touches.
Link - ( New Window )
He saw there was value in him and had him ready to go if the situation arose.
He didn't value him as a starter nor play him on the expectation he'd get a ton of touches.
And he won the league.
KWALL2 : 9/28/2017 8:42 pm : link
He's playing a lot of WR but they need to get him the ball more at RB as a runner. He's outstanding. One of the best offensive players in the league right now.
KWALL2 : 9/28/2017 10:06 pm : link
Thats called a coaching mistake.
And this link was a fun read by you. Telling everyone about Cohen's greatness.
KWALL is all in on Cohen..... OOPS!!! - ( New Window )
What you don't realize is actually Bill Parcells' BBI handle...so its understandable that he knows more about players than BBI as well as NFL coaches and front offices.
YAJ2112 : 9/11/2017 2:19 pm : link
but I was already grabbing shares of him before the previous discussion and making a point to grab him after it. Probably going to blow a big chunk of FAAB on him this week where he's available.
Can't deny the talent and as the Bears skill players drop like flies, the opportunities will be there. Certainly worth the risk that he can keep this up.
Yaj? His analysis in usage was limited to this:
Quote:
t I don't see a John Fox led team giving him a big enough role as a rookie to make him more relevant until something happens to Howard.
That’s it,
And then in week 1 and 2 Cohen got 20 passing targets and 30+ touches.
Link - ( New Window )
Did you really need me to break down John Fox's coaching philosophy and history to know where I was going?
Fox has always been a defense first, boring ground and pound offense with a bell cow RB coach. In his 15 seasons as a head coach going into last season, he had exactly 2 RBs that had more than 40 catches in a season - Knowshon Moreno in 2013 with Peyton Manning at QB had 60, and Matt Forte had 44 in 2015 (a year after having 102). Both of those RBs were the feature backs in the offense, and not secondary or 3rd down specialists. What exactly did you think he was going to do differently in year 16?
He didn't have an issue playing the rookie early and often.
Once the Rookie QB came in he cut his action. Why? Because of some coaching philosophy your aware of?
They were dealing with a bunch of injuries on offense at that time too. And a rookie QB who clearly was not ready to play. Did this have the impact on Cohen or your call on the impact of the coach?
The coach was wrong.
They had nothing else with this type of explosion.
He should have used him more. I expected any NFL coach to see it. It was really baffling to not utilize this weapon.
This year? What are they talking about with Cohen? Jet sweeps,screens, and isolation plays for Cohen. That's the obvious move. It was clear last year after a few snaps. The coach blew it.
The screen? How does the coach last year not use him more on the screen especially with the rookie? Huge mistake.
Par for the course.
Not complicated.
Not a big game plan change.
Not difficult to game plan a guy like this.
And should be expected of any NFL coach. And he did it. they used him in different ways. It's not a difficult thing to do.
The mid season drop? The rookie QB had a big impact there but the coach blew it by not using Cohen even more at this time. Instead he bumps Cunningham's PT. Wrong move coach.
He didn't have an issue playing the rookie early and often.
Once the Rookie QB came in he cut his action. Why? Because of some coaching philosophy your aware of?
They were dealing with a bunch of injuries on offense at that time too. And a rookie QB who clearly was not ready to play. Did this have the impact on Cohen or your call on the impact of the coach?
The coach was wrong.
They had nothing else with this type of explosion.
He should have used him more. I expected any NFL coach to see it. It was really baffling to not utilize this weapon.
This year? What are they talking about with Cohen? Jet sweeps,screens, and isolation plays for Cohen. That's the obvious move. It was clear last year after a few snaps. The coach blew it.
The screen? How does the coach last year not use him more on the screen especially with the rookie? Huge mistake.
Of course the coach blew it last year, he was John Fox. The discussion last year wasn't about the player, it was about his potential usage which was going to be capped by the coaching.
This year, Cohen is a mid-round pick not because he's a better player than he was last year but because he has a coach who's shown (with Tyreek Hill) that he can/will use a player with Cohen's skills.
I didn't call Howard a stiff either. But the guy can't catch. Cost them one game. He dropped a winning TD on a 3 yard swing pass. The coach? "Hey dummy, why wasn't Cohen in there on that play?" was the questions he took after the game.
Coach didn't use the player correctly. It wasn't an unwillingness to use a rookie. Or not finding ways to use him. They did it in the first few weeks and did it later in the year.
FMIC, week one he was using Cohen split wide and moving him around. This is what I posted in the initial thread. Yaj questioned Fox using him because he was a rookie. That was the extent of his analysis. I didn't ignore anything.
Fox used the rookie immediately. It worked. Fox changed it when the rookie QB came in. That was a mistake. And really, with the talent on the team, there was no excuse for it. He would have made things easier on the rookie QB and should have had more playing time.
They completed 55% to the rest of the roster. 75% to Cohen. He would have been easy completions for the rookie.
Instead they had 3 games where they didn't use him and they completed an average of 8 passes a game.
I play in PPR leagues. I expected more receptions from him because of the talent and, as posted in the initial thread, I expected some late game receptions playing catch up. He really didn't get them. Was I wrong on that too? OK.
YAJ posted the breakdown of RB receiving totals during his many years of coaching.
I'm not assuming all FF use the same level of decision making when they play, but when the guy sums it up perfectly the best you can come back with is the same refrain that you've been giving - Fox was wrong. A point YAJ not only agrees with, but gives a well-reasoned answer on why it should have been expected for Fox to utilize him the way he did. I'll point out again that YAJ had Cohen on a few of his teams.
People weren't saying Cohen sucked as a football player. Heck, people didn't even say he sucked as a fantasy guy. People said that he wasn't going to be a star guy and put up amazing stats.
If you don't take into account expected coaching utilization and dive headlong into a pick and then say it is poor coaching, you have a point. And the same ineffective player.
I don't get what you're still railing about now. Potential and performance are wildly different for a lot of young players.
The coach made a call to change what they did the first few weeks. He played the rookie QB at this time. He cut Cohens PT at the same time.
A coaching philosophy? Or just a bad move?
His philosophy did'nt prevent him from playing him early and getting him the ball in week 1 of his rookie year.
There was a change when the rookie QB came in. Cohen had a bonehead fumble. Maybe that was part of the decision. But a it was a bad decision.
He still finished the year with 50+ catches. It should have been closer to 80. Fox clearly did not make the right call cutting his time. They didn't do shit when he was out.
We had a call on a player in preseason to draft him late in FF. I stated my reasons for it. The guy didn't meet my expectations for the late round pick? Yes and there were a number of factors behind it and part of that was the bonehead move by the coach not to use the most explosive player on his team.
If Fox used him more he may still be there.
The coach made a call to change what they did the first few weeks. He played the rookie QB at this time. He cut Cohens PT at the same time.
A coaching philosophy? Or just a bad move?
His philosophy did'nt prevent him from playing him early and getting him the ball in week 1 of his rookie year.
There was a change when the rookie QB came in. Cohen had a bonehead fumble. Maybe that was part of the decision. But a it was a bad decision.
He still finished the year with 50+ catches. It should have been closer to 80. Fox clearly did not make the right call cutting his time. They didn't do shit when he was out.
We had a call on a player in preseason to draft him late in FF. I stated my reasons for it. The guy didn't meet my expectations for the late round pick? Yes and there were a number of factors behind it and part of that was the bonehead move by the coach not to use the most explosive player on his team.
If Fox used him more he may still be there.
Again, if you don't care who the coach is you aren't paying enough attention. Did you see what happened with the Rams/Falcons last year and how the coaching changes on those 2 teams impacted their fortunes?
The draft value was still there. Yes my expectations were higher but it’s comedy to get called out on a late round FF call on Cohen. Nobody mentioned him here. I passed on an observation from my preseason watching of a guy who I felt was a special talent and could be a major FF player in the late round.
He still had 50+ catches. He lost some big plays from bad calls. Week 3 hr had an 80 yard TD in OT. He did not step out in that PIT game. He had another TD taken away in another.
Very good rookie season. It should have been more regardless of the coach. He also didn’t get those last game dump offs when trailing that I expected.
I’ll stick my call that Cohen will be one of the best offensive weapons in the game. The QB play won’t help him but the new coaches will..
You seem to be blurring the lines between fantasy football and reality.
Just like I said above, you aren't called out for the late round call on Cohen, you're called out for saying he wasn't just a late rounder, but a guy that should be starting in fantasy lineups.
In this thread, nobody is saying Fox utilized Cohen correctly. I'm not even sure how it pertains. What pertains is that Fox had a long history of not utilizing pass catching backs. Information you either glossed over or outright ignored.
And that's why Cohen ended up being fairly worthless as a fantasy RB.
Coleman's only other option would have been not to play NFL football in 2018, so it's not a surprise he's shown up. Going from a 1-31 team to arguably the league's weakest passing attack is surely deflating but it is still ultimately a positive move for Coleman after the Browns' coaching staff gave up on him. Although he's begun to be labeled a bust, Coleman is still only 24, and his NFL injury history has been fluky. Even with Josh Allen or A.J. McCarron, Coleman could get his career on track this season.
Pondered his options? This dude's head doesn't seem to be right.
For example
time where he did make a play, you were the first one to post about it...
Try again. I started how many threads on him? One? In preseason.
FMIC....despite his long history. Fox was using him in variety of ways from week 1 and he still had 50 catches and the FF value was there. Oh and he was the best weapon on the team.
And I never said he should be your starting FF RB. In the thread I said grab him and gave a number of reasons and ways he could produce including late game dump offs and playing several roles (which Fox gave him starting week 1)
You said he would have trouble passing Langford. That he wouldn’t even get 6 touches/game. Were you wrong about it? Yes.
I said he could be the best player on the team be the end of the year. I think he was, if I could draft one guy from the offense from that Bears team he’s my choice.
I thought he would have a bigger impact. True. Was some of it the coaches philosophy that I missed? Maybe but it didn’t prevent him from changing the offense to utilize him in week 1. The rookie QB came in and gameplan for Cohen changed, Coaching philosophy? Wants more protection for rookie QB? Frustration with the fumble? Or simply bad coaching move? From what I saw it was a terrible coaching move because Cohen would help any QB.
My big miss on Cohen was certainly worthy of the callout by some of BBI’s best.
Cohen thread here - ( New Window )
Yawn...
You posted numerous time about a run he had against the Steelers. You said he had Barry Sanders like plays. You said he was one of the BEST offensive players in the league.
These aren’t lies. So you grow up and stop calling other kids. Move in, it’s ok to be wrong.
For example
Quote:
time where he did make a play, you were the first one to post about it...
Try again. I started how many threads on him? One? In preseason.
FMIC....despite his long history. Fox was using him in variety of ways from week 1 and he still had 50 catches and the FF value was there. Oh and he was the best weapon on the team.
And I never said he should be your starting FF RB. In the thread I said grab him and gave a number of reasons and ways he could produce including late game dump offs and playing several roles (which Fox gave him starting week 1)
You said he would have trouble passing Langford. That he wouldn’t even get 6 touches/game. Were you wrong about it? Yes.
I said he could be the best player on the team be the end of the year. I think he was, if I could draft one guy from the offense from that Bears team he’s my choice.
I thought he would have a bigger impact. True. Was some of it the coaches philosophy that I missed? Maybe but it didn’t prevent him from changing the offense to utilize him in week 1. The rookie QB came in and gameplan for Cohen changed, Coaching philosophy? Wants more protection for rookie QB? Frustration with the fumble? Or simply bad coaching move? From what I saw it was a terrible coaching move because Cohen would help any QB.
My big miss on Cohen was certainly worthy of the callout by some of BBI’s best.
Cohen thread here - ( New Window )
I'm still waiting to hear about how I supposedly loved Treadwell.
Your inability to admit that you're wrong without resorting to whatabouts is bordering on pathological at this point.
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/30/2017 7:56 pm : link
sleepers are just that - players who never awaken, unless forced into action by injury, which is darn difficult to predict. You generally are left with a player at the very end of the roster who you drop in favor of, in the case of last year, a Spencer Ware, or a Ty Montgomery.
I'm in multiple leagues and Montgomery wasn't drafted in any of them and if he had been, he'd have been stuck on the bench and probably dropped before he actually contributed.
You can look at cohen the same way - or you can make the slick pick and watch him sit on your bench.
It held true for Cohen too. He didn't get sprung into action by an injury and he would sit on the end of any knowledgeable fantasy football player's bench.
It isn't about predicting touches. It is realizing that a player like Cohen, even with untapped potential, is basically a fantasy dud if he doesn't get the right shot.
One thread. Nice. Carry on.
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/31/2017 12:35 pm : link
is going to get a lot of touches this year. He's going to be their featured 3rd down back and also get some snaps on 1st and 2nd.
you can't possibly equate Cohen to him.
I mean, I guess you can. Draft Cohen and start him in your FF league. I'm pretty sure it will work out more for the other guys.
And yes, Treadwell was considered a sleeper - and he panned out as most sleepers do.
I'd be surprised if Cohen had a combined 6 touches/targets per game. You want to use a spot for that, go ahead. McCaffery will likely be in the double digits every game.
Heck, I even thought Treadwell was a stiff too. Bonus points!!!
Quote:
started a god damn game thread against the bears
One thread. Nice. Carry on.
So I wasn’t lying!!!
Anyways starting a game thread about a backup running back? Yeah, you weren’t obsessed with the player... lol