|
|
Â
|
| Quote: |
| Adam Schefter & #8207; Verified account @AdamSchefter Following Following @AdamSchefter Sam Darnold “has a very fair shot” of winning Jets’ starting QB job for regular-season opener, per sources. He has to keep progressing, preseason will be critical, and he probably is a year away, when he turns 22. But Jets love what they see and he has a legit chance to win job. |
which is nice...
Look, like the GMS and scounts paid to make these decisions I could certainly be wrong. I thought Darnold was a slam dunk. If he becomes a franchise QB i dont care what Barkley does the giants fudged up.
Look, like the GMS and scounts paid to make these decisions I could certainly be wrong. I thought Darnold was a slam dunk. If he becomes a franchise QB i dont care what Barkley does the giants fudged up.
That's your opinion and time will tell if you're right. I also wanted Darnold but Barkley is the player the Giants liked more. They clearly are not convinced that Darnold is a franchise QB.
Constantly criticizing the Giants for passing on Darnold is borderline trolling. You've made your point perfectly clear. If you're a Giants fan you should hope that Barkley is the generational talent that he is expected to be.
Look, like the GMS and scounts paid to make these decisions I could certainly be wrong. I thought Darnold was a slam dunk. If he becomes a franchise QB i dont care what Barkley does the giants fudged up.
The decision was made. It's going to be years before we know whether it was the right one or not. We get it, you and many others would have taken Darnold or Rosen or Allen, etc. What good does it do to constantly whine about it?
Look, like the GMS and scounts paid to make these decisions I could certainly be wrong. I thought Darnold was a slam dunk. If he becomes a franchise QB i dont care what Barkley does the giants fudged up.
You're still on this? The Giants took the best player on their board. They have Eli who they believe can play for another 2-3 years at a high level. I don't get why some people continue to line up their opinion vs those who do it for a living and actually have the power to make the calls. We get it you wanted a QB, any QB. Didn't happen. Darnold is a jet, feel free to root for them this year. They have what QB snacks thinks is a franchise qb so it must be true. Jets will be champs before long.
Again, we took Barkley and I'm good with it. We don't have to panic about QB for another 2 years....
Quote:
Darnold will start week 1. There will be growing pains but he's a totally different animal than the atrocious Sanchez and Smith who just flat out didn't have the skills, tools, intellect and passion of Darnold
If he would benefit from sitting, as all the scouting reports seemed to indicate he would, would you advocate for starting him anyway, week 1? Trial by fire?
That's not what the scouting reports said. I've read them all on Darnold and they really don't mention how he should start his career and which philosophy is best.
Perhaps the Jets were leaning towards sitting him for half a season or so but in OTA's and whatever short training camp he's had he's really blown them away with how fast he learns and the progress he's making. His release which was considered something he needed to work on has now been totally cleaned up and clocked as fast, his accuracy is amazing either from the pocket or on the run. He makes wow throws every practice. If he makes a mistake he doesn't tend to repeat it
Quote:
I'd love to know how not drafting a Franchise QB would be right for us?
Look, like the GMS and scounts paid to make these decisions I could certainly be wrong. I thought Darnold was a slam dunk. If he becomes a franchise QB i dont care what Barkley does the giants fudged up.
That's your opinion and time will tell if you're right. I also wanted Darnold but Barkley is the player the Giants liked more. They clearly are not convinced that Darnold is a franchise QB.
Constantly criticizing the Giants for passing on Darnold is borderline trolling. You've made your point perfectly clear. If you're a Giants fan you should hope that Barkley is the generational talent that he is expected to be.
Define constantly criticizing the giants? I've never started a thread on it. When the topic comes up I share my opinion. IF that's trolling you're basically saying you cant share unpopular opinions about the giants on a message board intended to discuss the team.
Quote:
and the Giants will look like fools in a few years for passing on him. Browns too. But it will be much worse for us sharing a stadium with one of the NFL's elite QBs.
the butthurt is strong with this one
It would have been worse if we drafted Darnold and let Lyle L get away.
Meanwhile we got the steal of the draft, a RB, WR, and olineman in one SB.
Quote:
I'd love to know how not drafting a Franchise QB would be right for us?
Look, like the GMS and scounts paid to make these decisions I could certainly be wrong. I thought Darnold was a slam dunk. If he becomes a franchise QB i dont care what Barkley does the giants fudged up.
That's your opinion and time will tell if you're right. I also wanted Darnold but Barkley is the player the Giants liked more. They clearly are not convinced that Darnold is a franchise QB.
Constantly criticizing the Giants for passing on Darnold is borderline trolling. You've made your point perfectly clear. If you're a Giants fan you should hope that Barkley is the generational talent that he is expected to be.
At this point, it’s pretty senseless to continue debating whether not taking Darnold was the right choice. I was a big proponent of taking a qb round 1, they didn’t, so I hope Barkley becomes the best running back in the league and Manning can lead them to top once again.
The Giants may very well find themselves in qb hell again in 3 seasons if Webb doesn’t work out. I hope he does, but he could be Kent Graham 2.0. If that’s the case, there’s nothing stopping the Giants from making a big draft day move in the future for another qb. Until then, I’m hoping for the best.
It’s the jets. They are always thinking one step sideways.
Quote:
In comment 14030624 QB Snacks said:
Quote:
I'd love to know how not drafting a Franchise QB would be right for us?
Look, like the GMS and scounts paid to make these decisions I could certainly be wrong. I thought Darnold was a slam dunk. If he becomes a franchise QB i dont care what Barkley does the giants fudged up.
That's your opinion and time will tell if you're right. I also wanted Darnold but Barkley is the player the Giants liked more. They clearly are not convinced that Darnold is a franchise QB.
Constantly criticizing the Giants for passing on Darnold is borderline trolling. You've made your point perfectly clear. If you're a Giants fan you should hope that Barkley is the generational talent that he is expected to be.
At this point, it’s pretty senseless to continue debating whether not taking Darnold was the right choice. I was a big proponent of taking a qb round 1, they didn’t, so I hope Barkley becomes the best running back in the league and Manning can lead them to top once again.
The Giants may very well find themselves in qb hell again in 3 seasons if Webb doesn’t work out. I hope he does, but he could be Kent Graham 2.0. If that’s the case, there’s nothing stopping the Giants from making a big draft day move in the future for another qb. Until then, I’m hoping for the best.
They've got Lauletta as well, so they've hedged their bets a little.
Look, like the GMS and scounts paid to make these decisions I could certainly be wrong. I thought Darnold was a slam dunk. If he becomes a franchise QB i dont care what Barkley does the giants fudged up.
Shut. The. Hell. Up.
Perhaps the Jets were leaning towards sitting him for half a season or so but in OTA's and whatever short training camp he's had he's really blown them away with how fast he learns and the progress he's making. His release which was considered something he needed to work on has now been totally cleaned up and clocked as fast, his accuracy is amazing either from the pocket or on the run. He makes wow throws every practice. If he makes a mistake he doesn't tend to repeat it
Changing throwing mechanics does not happen overnight. In practice it can look good but once the games start and the pressure is in his face he will revert to his old mechanics.
Quote:
I'd love to know how not drafting a Franchise QB would be right for us?
Look, like the GMS and scounts paid to make these decisions I could certainly be wrong. I thought Darnold was a slam dunk. If he becomes a franchise QB i dont care what Barkley does the giants fudged up.
Shut. The. Hell. Up.
no
Define constantly criticizing the giants? I've never started a thread on it. When the topic comes up I share my opinion. IF that's trolling you're basically saying you cant share unpopular opinions about the giants on a message board intended to discuss the team.
You can share unpopular opinions but saying the same thing over and over again in different threads is ridiculous. What does starting a thread have to do with anything? You've made your point, we get it you wanted Darnold. I did too but it's over now so let's wait and see what happens.
Quote:
In comment 14030624 QB Snacks said:
Quote:
I'd love to know how not drafting a Franchise QB would be right for us?
Look, like the GMS and scounts paid to make these decisions I could certainly be wrong. I thought Darnold was a slam dunk. If he becomes a franchise QB i dont care what Barkley does the giants fudged up.
Shut. The. Hell. Up.
no
Dude every thread. Fine. Move the fuck on.
It’s not like there won’t be anymore qbs coming out of college and here’s a mindblowing probability that the qb talkies like yourself can’t process: even if darnold is very good or even great, that doesn’t guarantee that the giants and darnold win a super bowl together. It doesn’t guarantee shit actually.
Darnold or Allen or Rosen will likely play well and every single idiot with a voice will insist that the giants just threw away a super bowl or two.
This topic has already reached ridiculously stupid levels of debate and it’s not even fucking September.
- Keep posting the same tired responses over and over again regarding passing on Darnold even on threads where it isn't applicable
- Former poster reincarnated who tries to pass themselves off as a new board member
- Going onto threads to complain about other aspects when the topic isn't applicable trying to generate a response.
Frankly, what part of that isn't trolling??
You need to get over the fact that you dont control this board and the opinions on it. I'm allowed to share mine even if you dont like it. That's the whole point of the website.
With that in mind criticizing me for commenting on "EVERY SINGLE THREAD" is inaccurate. Get your facts straight.
I pointed out on another thread a few days ago that Eli has thrown more passes in the NFL than John Elway, Warren Moon, and Vinny Testaverde...guys that played forever. If Eli never throws another pass he's had an unusually long career. That is wonderful and he is my favorite Giant ever, but the truth is that he could hit the wall at any time. Any injury he sustains is going to be tougher to recover from and maintain peak performance.
I think the Giants are in risky territory here. While there's no question Eli Manning in 2018 is a better route to contention than Sam Darnold (or one of his draft classmates), the end could come at any time.
Between the age of the GM, the age of the QB, new coaching staff, and high investments in a RB and impending monster WR contract there are realistic scenarios where the whole thing has to be blown up in 2 or 3 years.
Quote:
Perhaps the Jets were leaning towards sitting him for half a season or so but in OTA's and whatever short training camp he's had he's really blown them away with how fast he learns and the progress he's making. His release which was considered something he needed to work on has now been totally cleaned up and clocked as fast, his accuracy is amazing either from the pocket or on the run. He makes wow throws every practice. If he makes a mistake he doesn't tend to repeat it
Changing throwing mechanics does not happen overnight. In practice it can look good but once the games start and the pressure is in his face he will revert to his old mechanics.
This has been an evolution that started in his freshman year when he held the ball too low and had a looping delivery. His release improved last season and has continued to improve and quicken.
He did a sportscience show last year which clocked his new release as being quicker than Winston and Derek Carr. And since that point it's improved even more.
Guess we'll see what happens when the games are for real but he threw the ball very well at the green and white scrimmage.
Barkley might end up being overrated or out of the league entirely in a few years.
For all we know, the best pick was the DE, and not either the RB or QB.
This will be a great point of debate, either with a huge sigh of relief or loud groans of pain, but not for a few years at least. Until then, all we can do is sit and wait.
Look, like the GMS and scounts paid to make these decisions I could certainly be wrong. I thought Darnold was a slam dunk.
QB Snacks and his slam dunk -
From what he's shown already it's hard to imagine him not being one. He processes information incredibly quickly and has a super high football IQ as well as natural instincts and feel for the game. Get the feeling he would've been great at whatever career he chose.
I've never seen the Jets this euphoric over any player we've drafted ever. At any position. Not even Revis or Keyshawn
Quote:
I thought Darnold was a slam dunk.
From what he's shown already it's hard to imagine him not being one. He processes information incredibly quickly and has a super high football IQ as well as natural instincts and feel for the game. Get the feeling he would've been great at whatever career he chose.
I've never seen the Jets this euphoric over any player we've drafted ever. At any position. Not even Revis or Keyshawn
I don't love Darnold's mechanics - he reminds me of Byron Leftwich with how far down below his waist the ball travels during his windup. I expect he'll fumble the ball quite a bit over the course of his career, and I wonder if he'll ever evolve to a point where he's doing his best work as a pure pocket passer.
That said, I think the game is changing and beginning to favor QBs that can both make plays out of the pocket and off schedule. Carson Wentz, for example, doesn't impress me from the pocket. Broken plays, though, are another matter entirely. I think the reasons for this change leaguewide are various:
- rules changes favoring offense
- college football producing poorer offensive linemen
- larger, superior athletes gravitating towards WR/TE over CB/S
- limited practice time shifting influence away from designed plays and towards individual ability
So I think that while Darnold's got issues, his strengths align with what I perceive to be going on in the NFL right now.
I think the Giants are in risky territory here. While there's no question Eli Manning in 2018 is a better route to contention than Sam Darnold (or one of his draft classmates), the end could come at any time.
I don't disagree at all with your concerns here. But I do feel a bit better to know that the head coach is a guy who made Case Keenum look really good last year. And that was despite losing Dalvin Cook to injury early in the season.
I want Eli to thrive for a few more years. But a part of me is intrigued to see what Shurmur can do with Webb and Lauletta.
cmon man
I don't love Darnold's mechanics - he reminds me of Byron Leftwich with how far down below his waist the ball travels during his windup. I expect he'll fumble the ball quite a bit over the course of his career, and I wonder if he'll ever evolve to a point where he's doing his best work as a pure pocket passer.
That said, I think the game is changing and beginning to favor QBs that can both make plays out of the pocket and off schedule. Carson Wentz, for example, doesn't impress me from the pocket. Broken plays, though, are another matter entirely. I think the reasons for this change leaguewide are various:
- rules changes favoring offense
- college football producing poorer offensive linemen
- larger, superior athletes gravitating towards WR/TE over CB/S
- limited practice time shifting influence away from designed plays and towards individual ability
So I think that while Darnold's got issues, his strengths align with what I perceive to be going on in the NFL right now.
Very good analysis. Cosell is respected and sometimes I feel too much of a hard grader, but he makes a lot of good points
I'd say Darnold is weird in how accurately he can throw the ball with velocity despite inconsistent footwork while in the pocket. Though I'd rather it be eliminated from his game entirely it hasn't really hurt him as much as you'd expect, but it's not a positive
Depends if he becomes a generational talent or not. Running backs you can generally find everywhere and plenty of times lower round picks outperform higher picked backs. Barkley I think will be very good but I don't really rank him higher than a Gurley or Dalvin Cook from when they came out. Cook of course tore his knee up but was an amazing player at FSU
IF Darnold becomes a Alex Smith/Kirk Cousins type and Barkley is the next Marshall Faulk then the Giants made the right choice.
If both are perennial Pro Bowlers, they both are good picks. If El;i leaves and the Giants can't find a replacement, while Darnold is a star, that's what will shine a bad light on the decision.
Dragon is physically more impressive than Darnold, a Josh Allen but a bit more accurate.
Plus he has a cooler nickname.
I pointed out on another thread a few days ago that Eli has thrown more passes in the NFL than John Elway, Warren Moon, and Vinny Testaverde...guys that played forever. If Eli never throws another pass he's had an unusually long career. That is wonderful and he is my favorite Giant ever, but the truth is that he could hit the wall at any time. Any injury he sustains is going to be tougher to recover from and maintain peak performance.
I think the Giants are in risky territory here. While there's no question Eli Manning in 2018 is a better route to contention than Sam Darnold (or one of his draft classmates), the end could come at any time.
Between the age of the GM, the age of the QB, new coaching staff, and high investments in a RB and impending monster WR contract there are realistic scenarios where the whole thing has to be blown up in 2 or 3 years.
Good post. I may be wrong but I don't believe they turned down picking one of the top 4 QBs was because they were sure they could squeeze every last drop out of Eli.
I really believe the Giants staff were not convinced that the 3 remaining QBs would be a great pick down the road. Only time will tell us if their scouting was good or bad.
I want Eli to thrive for a few more years. But a part of me is intrigued to see what Shurmur can do with Webb and Lauletta.
This is a VERY interesting topic. Especially thinking about what it costs to have Eli play here each year.
Eli will have to really earn his $20M+ to be back in 2019, IMO.
Based on their college tape that would surprise me. I didn't see an NFL quarterback in the clips I saw of Webb, but who knows.
This is not as true as people think. Leonard Fournette, Todd Gurley, Melvin Gordon, Ezekiel Elliot, Marshawn Lynch, Adrian Peterson, and Mark Ingram were 1st-round picks. LeSean McCoy, LeVeon Bell, and Dalvin Cook were 2nd-round picks.
Of course, there are examples of great running backs being picked up in later rounds, but you can find that with any position, including quarterback, with 6th-round Brady, undrafted Romo, 3rd-round Wilson, 4th-round Cousins, etc.
The Giants have been trying to catch a later-round stud running back, and it hasn't worked.
But Gurley was a Top 10 pick coming off a major injury. Why would you have Gurley clearly higher than Barkley coming out?
I know Shurmur is supposed to be a 'QB Whisperer' but can we really say McAdoo and TC were awful at it? Out of all the Giants developmental QBs during the Eli era, I don't know of any that went on to have success elsewhere. Maybe these guys just weren't NFL material?
Quote:
Watch Webb be a better pro than Darnold. That'd be typical of the two franchises.
Based on their college tape that would surprise me. I didn't see an NFL quarterback in the clips I saw of Webb, but who knows.
Goterps, unfortunately I have to agree with you. I saw a lot of Webb in college, and unfortunately never really saw an nfl qb. He struggled with intermediate and deep field accuracy, lacked pocket awareness, and has substantial trouble reading even the most basic defenses. Of course some of that is attributed to the offense he played in, but there’s just something you saw when you watched him that just looked like it didn’t work when he put it all together. It also seems that he’s still at least having the accuracy issues at the pro level based on some of the chatter I’ve read out of Giants camp. All of this is why I’ve been surprised with so much of the optimism that Giants fans have regarding Webb.
We ll get to see a lot of him over the next few weeks, so hopefully he’s risen above al of those flaws. If not, then he’s probably just a solid NFL backup. There’s nothing wrong with that and that’s certainly not a reason tovdrsft or not draft Darnold. They’ll be other qbs in the draft in coming years.
Quote:
I think one of the most important assignments this coaching staff has is QB development behind Manning. Coughlin and McAdoo were awful in this regard and it was covered up by Eli's durability. Shurmur doesn't figure to have the same luxury.
I know Shurmur is supposed to be a 'QB Whisperer' but can we really say McAdoo and TC were awful at it? Out of all the Giants developmental QBs during the Eli era, I don't know of any that went on to have success elsewhere. Maybe these guys just weren't NFL material?
And who picked them? It wasn't just Reese without input from the staff. And beyond that we saw zero evidence that any of those guys improved from one year to the next. It was terrible.
Yep. I just don't know how much pull a Giants HC has on draft day. I imagine if the HC had strong feelings with a guy, he's be taken seriously.
In any case, I'm glad we have 2 developmental guys as opposed to just Webb. Hate to admit this, but I hope Darnold does not turn out to be a good NFL QB.
From what I've seen Lamar Jackson will be fielding punts by 2020
Polian was right. This guy is not a QB. 13 wonderlic. Totally lost
Quote:
Do you think Jackson will see any playing time unless Flacco gets hurt?
From what I've seen Lamar Jackson will be fielding punts by 2020
Polian was right. This guy is not a QB. 13 wonderlic. Totally lost
I'm not a Lamar Jackson guy, but what constitutes "what you've seen" and "totally lost"? A couple quarters in his first preseason game?