--no proven pass rusher outside of Vernon. Lorenzo Carter is going to get lots of chances as a rookie to be the other pass rusher. If OV goes down that pass rush looks paltry to say the least
--DL looks decent for a 3-4 setup. We know Snacks is a monster and Tomlinson is just about there. BJ Hill surprisingly wins the 3rd DL spot so that's a good sign for him
--Curtis Riley winning the FS spot off Darian Thompson is a bad sign for Thompson. CB depth is frightening. I'm not sure there's another NFL caliber corner on the team outside of Jenkins and Apple. If one of them gets hurt (and Apple isn't great anyway) that is going to be brutal
--Halapio as 1st team C instead of Jones tells me that Shurmur is a run-first coach as Halapio is much more of a mauler. Not sure that Halapio is exactly a good pass protector though. Wheeler is probably the backup LT and RT and they don't have another guy behind him. Solder, Hernandez and Omameh look good and I'm actually optimistic for Flowers at RT since he was probably supposed to be a RT anyway
--Skill positions look really good but we could use an outside receiver better than Cody Latimer. Saquon will crush it and make that OL look better than it is
If a guy with 55.5 career sacks isn't a proven pass rusher then I don't know what a proven pass rusher looks like (Barwin).
As for Latimer, I don't think anyone should make any judgements on him yet. He was blocked by some pretty good receivers with horrendous QB play last several seasons (Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders). As a team they only completed 332 passes for just 5.4 Y/A which was near the bottom of the NFL. For comparison, the Giants completed 373 passes for 5.4 Y/A and our passing offense was pretty broken.
Latimer is a very good special teamer/returner and I think that is where you look for him to make the biggest impact, and anything else is gravy on top.
The Giants will have 4 excellent receiving options and not a lot of teams can compete with that. The outside receiver "hole" is overblown because Engram will find himself out there likely a lot of the time, as will Shepard, although I don't think that's the best use of his talent.
RE: RE: base system on this depth chart is 2 TEs - Â
not unexpected, but interesting to see. Engram and Ellison both considered starters.
Engram is a TE in name only. I'll bet he's the outside receiver/WR2 at least 70% of the time
So glad this coaching staff sees this. Engram is a pass catcher first and a blocker third. At 6’3” 240 lining him up to block pretty much anyone but a DB is a mistake the last staff couldn’t seem to figure out. And it was going to get him here besides.
--no proven pass rusher outside of Vernon. Lorenzo Carter is going to get lots of chances as a rookie to be the other pass rusher. If OV goes down that pass rush looks paltry to say the least
--DL looks decent for a 3-4 setup. We know Snacks is a monster and Tomlinson is just about there. BJ Hill surprisingly wins the 3rd DL spot so that's a good sign for him
--Curtis Riley winning the FS spot off Darian Thompson is a bad sign for Thompson. CB depth is frightening. I'm not sure there's another NFL caliber corner on the team outside of Jenkins and Apple. If one of them gets hurt (and Apple isn't great anyway) that is going to be brutal
--Halapio as 1st team C instead of Jones tells me that Shurmur is a run-first coach as Halapio is much more of a mauler. Not sure that Halapio is exactly a good pass protector though. Wheeler is probably the backup LT and RT and they don't have another guy behind him. Solder, Hernandez and Omameh look good and I'm actually optimistic for Flowers at RT since he was probably supposed to be a RT anyway
--Skill positions look really good but we could use an outside receiver better than Cody Latimer. Saquon will crush it and make that OL look better than it is
If a guy with 55.5 career sacks isn't a proven pass rusher then I don't know what a proven pass rusher looks like (Barwin).
As for Latimer, I don't think anyone should make any judgements on him yet. He was blocked by some pretty good receivers with horrendous QB play last several seasons (Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders). As a team they only completed 332 passes for just 5.4 Y/A which was near the bottom of the NFL. For comparison, the Giants completed 373 passes for 5.4 Y/A and our passing offense was pretty broken.
Latimer is a very good special teamer/returner and I think that is where you look for him to make the biggest impact, and anything else is gravy on top.
The Giants will have 4 excellent receiving options and not a lot of teams can compete with that. The outside receiver "hole" is overblown because Engram will find himself out there likely a lot of the time, as will Shepard, although I don't think that's the best use of his talent.
Not sure how much Barwin has left in the tank though
On a rebuilding team? Based on what ? We have a load of skilled players, a vet QB, a Vet LT, several vets on defense. I just don't see it as a rebuilding team anymore. Depth is an issue sure but many teams across the league have depth issues. That's life. If the Giants stay healthy they will be a tough team to beat
that the two best UDFA's the Giants signed, CB Grant Haley and G Nick Gates, are dead last on the depth chart.
Those guys are getting practice reps with 3s. The preseason games will be there chance to show what they can do. Full speed, actual tackling and blocking, etc
RE: RE: It looks like the roster of a rebuilding team. Â
On a rebuilding team? Based on what ? We have a load of skilled players, a vet QB, a Vet LT, several vets on defense. I just don't see it as a rebuilding team anymore. Depth is an issue sure but many teams across the league have depth issues. That's life. If the Giants stay healthy they will be a tough team to beat
I simply don't think you erase six or seven years of poor roster construction with one offseason no matter how much people want to be optimistic. There are a ton of different wheels spinning at once. New coach, entirely new defense, a very unforgiving schedule.
EVERY team in the league has depth issues. From reading the comments here I'm forced to think "stupid Giants, can't they see that they need a pro bowler backing up EVERY position?"
Considering the mess that this team was last year, that's potentially a pretty good 1st team and there are a lot of young hungry talent behind them. It's up to this staff (unlike the previous one) to develop the talent on the roster so the depth Becomes good.
When the dust settles, the degree of roster turnover will be significant. I suspect guys like R Lewis, Munson and maybe even D Thompson an Jerry may not be long for the roster. Replaced by young guys with potential. That's as good as they can do at this point.
RE: Amba and Roger Lewis look like they're in trouble. Â
Maybe a FB is not in the plans. There was a lot of talk that Shurmer liked having a FB but there isn’t even a FB spot on the depth chart.
Looks like we are going to run a lot of 2 TE. Shane's only chance might be to hang on as a hybrid FB/H-Back. So his competition is probably the other TEs.
I see a guy like Amba as a good choice for the practice squad. I don't see Roger Lewis or Darian Thompson as guys to hang around. The team can do better (hence this early depth chart- neither ar in good position and from what I saw last Thursday, deserved. No scholarships on this roster. If you don't make plays well then it's been nice knowing you!
--no proven pass rusher outside of Vernon. Lorenzo Carter is going to get lots of chances as a rookie to be the other pass rusher. If OV goes down that pass rush looks paltry to say the least
--DL looks decent for a 3-4 setup. We know Snacks is a monster and Tomlinson is just about there. BJ Hill surprisingly wins the 3rd DL spot so that's a good sign for him
--Curtis Riley winning the FS spot off Darian Thompson is a bad sign for Thompson. CB depth is frightening. I'm not sure there's another NFL caliber corner on the team outside of Jenkins and Apple. If one of them gets hurt (and Apple isn't great anyway) that is going to be brutal
--Halapio as 1st team C instead of Jones tells me that Shurmur is a run-first coach as Halapio is much more of a mauler. Not sure that Halapio is exactly a good pass protector though. Wheeler is probably the backup LT and RT and they don't have another guy behind him. Solder, Hernandez and Omameh look good and I'm actually optimistic for Flowers at RT since he was probably supposed to be a RT anyway
--Skill positions look really good but we could use an outside receiver better than Cody Latimer. Saquon will crush it and make that OL look better than it is
If a guy with 55.5 career sacks isn't a proven pass rusher then I don't know what a proven pass rusher looks like (Barwin).
As for Latimer, I don't think anyone should make any judgements on him yet. He was blocked by some pretty good receivers with horrendous QB play last several seasons (Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders). As a team they only completed 332 passes for just 5.4 Y/A which was near the bottom of the NFL. For comparison, the Giants completed 373 passes for 5.4 Y/A and our passing offense was pretty broken.
Latimer is a very good special teamer/returner and I think that is where you look for him to make the biggest impact, and anything else is gravy on top.
The Giants will have 4 excellent receiving options and not a lot of teams can compete with that. The outside receiver "hole" is overblown because Engram will find himself out there likely a lot of the time, as will Shepard, although I don't think that's the best use of his talent.
I don't think it's really that overblown. Just look at last year. If any of Beckham, Shepard, or Engram get nicked up even for a game the wheels come off.
Unless...the unproven options step up, which is certainly possible.
I'm not suggesting a pro-bowler at every position, and the names I suggested weren't outlandish, but the Giants signing Brandon Marshall last year was also probably a little bit about them not being comfortable with the 3rd WR (2nd outside WR) options.
Now this is a different front office, and a different depth chart, but I'm not confident the 2nd outside WR is addressed with the roster today.
Who knows, maybe the Giants have another Cruz in one of the young guys.
I feel better right now about the OL than I do about the 3rd WR or the 3rd CB.
And I thought Gay was going to be a slot CB. Surprised to see him at FS on the depth chart.
I'm not so sure I'd read too much into CB depth chart because slot corner is a de facto starting spot, yet teams don't put that position on their depth chart.
Gay very well could end up being the #1 or #2 slot corner.
I'm not so sure I'd read too much into CB depth chart because slot corner is a de facto starting spot, yet teams don't put that position on their depth chart.
Gay very well could end up being the #1 or #2 slot corner.
Good point and the depth chart certainly could be misleading on the slot corner position as it’s not listed like FB.
Maybe a FB is not in the plans. There was a lot of talk that Shurmer liked having a FB but there isn’t even a FB spot on the depth chart.
Is it possible that this is just an artifact of using a 12 package as the base for the depth chart? (Where would you list Smith in that set?)
There may be times when they move away from that formation and then the FB position becomes relevant.
I'm not sure how to read the listing of Smith as 4th RB in terms of his relative position on the team.
The fact that there has been a lot of shuffling in the depth is a good sign. Guys like Okwara, Thompson, Adams on D and Jones, Jerry and Lewis getting pushed down is a good sign that hopefully we have some better options.
Deayon seems to have been stepping it up as have many of the 2nd and 3rd teamers at WR.
While those signs are encouraging, we are talking about a very low bar. So it remains to be seen what they do when real bullets fly. Looking forward to preseason.
That said, depth OT, and ILB is truly frightening...
The fact that there has been a lot of shuffling in the depth is a good sign. Guys like Okwara, Thompson, Adams on D and Jones, Jerry and Lewis getting pushed down is a good sign that hopefully we have some better options.
Deayon seems to have been stepping it up as have many of the 2nd and 3rd teamers at WR.
While those signs are encouraging, we are talking about a very low bar. So it remains to be seen what they do when real bullets fly. Looking forward to preseason.
That said, depth OT, and ILB is truly frightening...
but that's a top notch starting lineup. Weapons all over the place. Of course, you are only as good as your depth in the NFL and that's what will probably get us.
Roster depth is an issue across the league. If we can stay as healthy as 2016, we should be ok.
I like that a former cb is listed as a starting FS. This is a guy who can cover when the opposing O goes to a spread with every db required to cover someone.
I also think Riley might play a better center field when the DC opts to put Landon Collins in attack mode.
I think Thomas is also a guy who can cover as a fs having played a lot of slot corner.
Having a number of safeties who can provide pass coverage really provides the DC with maximum flexibility in terms of how he lines everyone up, disguises coverages and blitzes.
While depth at corner is an obvious concern, I am now thinking the DC may in fact play three safeties in certain packages, placing an additional safety in the game in lieu of one of our inexperienced teeny corners.
We could be in for a very long season if things don't break our way again this year.
Agreed. I have the same feeling but you are abashed on here if you don't comply and dare give your opinion. I don't know much about the defense. Who are these guys? I guess I can rest my hat on Collins, Harrison and Vernon but not much else to get pumped up about. Of course, someone is going to get injured.
--DL looks decent for a 3-4 setup. We know Snacks is a monster and Tomlinson is just about there. BJ Hill surprisingly wins the 3rd DL spot so that's a good sign for him
--Curtis Riley winning the FS spot off Darian Thompson is a bad sign for Thompson. CB depth is frightening. I'm not sure there's another NFL caliber corner on the team outside of Jenkins and Apple. If one of them gets hurt (and Apple isn't great anyway) that is going to be brutal
--Halapio as 1st team C instead of Jones tells me that Shurmur is a run-first coach as Halapio is much more of a mauler. Not sure that Halapio is exactly a good pass protector though. Wheeler is probably the backup LT and RT and they don't have another guy behind him. Solder, Hernandez and Omameh look good and I'm actually optimistic for Flowers at RT since he was probably supposed to be a RT anyway
--Skill positions look really good but we could use an outside receiver better than Cody Latimer. Saquon will crush it and make that OL look better than it is
If a guy with 55.5 career sacks isn't a proven pass rusher then I don't know what a proven pass rusher looks like (Barwin).
As for Latimer, I don't think anyone should make any judgements on him yet. He was blocked by some pretty good receivers with horrendous QB play last several seasons (Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders). As a team they only completed 332 passes for just 5.4 Y/A which was near the bottom of the NFL. For comparison, the Giants completed 373 passes for 5.4 Y/A and our passing offense was pretty broken.
Latimer is a very good special teamer/returner and I think that is where you look for him to make the biggest impact, and anything else is gravy on top.
The Giants will have 4 excellent receiving options and not a lot of teams can compete with that. The outside receiver "hole" is overblown because Engram will find himself out there likely a lot of the time, as will Shepard, although I don't think that's the best use of his talent.
Quote:
not unexpected, but interesting to see. Engram and Ellison both considered starters.
Engram is a TE in name only. I'll bet he's the outside receiver/WR2 at least 70% of the time
So glad this coaching staff sees this. Engram is a pass catcher first and a blocker third. At 6’3” 240 lining him up to block pretty much anyone but a DB is a mistake the last staff couldn’t seem to figure out. And it was going to get him here besides.
Quote:
--no proven pass rusher outside of Vernon. Lorenzo Carter is going to get lots of chances as a rookie to be the other pass rusher. If OV goes down that pass rush looks paltry to say the least
--DL looks decent for a 3-4 setup. We know Snacks is a monster and Tomlinson is just about there. BJ Hill surprisingly wins the 3rd DL spot so that's a good sign for him
--Curtis Riley winning the FS spot off Darian Thompson is a bad sign for Thompson. CB depth is frightening. I'm not sure there's another NFL caliber corner on the team outside of Jenkins and Apple. If one of them gets hurt (and Apple isn't great anyway) that is going to be brutal
--Halapio as 1st team C instead of Jones tells me that Shurmur is a run-first coach as Halapio is much more of a mauler. Not sure that Halapio is exactly a good pass protector though. Wheeler is probably the backup LT and RT and they don't have another guy behind him. Solder, Hernandez and Omameh look good and I'm actually optimistic for Flowers at RT since he was probably supposed to be a RT anyway
--Skill positions look really good but we could use an outside receiver better than Cody Latimer. Saquon will crush it and make that OL look better than it is
If a guy with 55.5 career sacks isn't a proven pass rusher then I don't know what a proven pass rusher looks like (Barwin).
As for Latimer, I don't think anyone should make any judgements on him yet. He was blocked by some pretty good receivers with horrendous QB play last several seasons (Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders). As a team they only completed 332 passes for just 5.4 Y/A which was near the bottom of the NFL. For comparison, the Giants completed 373 passes for 5.4 Y/A and our passing offense was pretty broken.
Latimer is a very good special teamer/returner and I think that is where you look for him to make the biggest impact, and anything else is gravy on top.
The Giants will have 4 excellent receiving options and not a lot of teams can compete with that. The outside receiver "hole" is overblown because Engram will find himself out there likely a lot of the time, as will Shepard, although I don't think that's the best use of his talent.
Not sure how much Barwin has left in the tank though
Seen enough of Lewis. No sure hands, can't return, can't tackle.
He can down a punt if it hits the ground. Or he can stand there if the returner calls for fair catch.
Not enough for a roster spot.
If you are going to troll, at least get your shit together. We DRAFTED a RB.
On a rebuilding team? Based on what ? We have a load of skilled players, a vet QB, a Vet LT, several vets on defense. I just don't see it as a rebuilding team anymore. Depth is an issue sure but many teams across the league have depth issues. That's life. If the Giants stay healthy they will be a tough team to beat
More likely Goodson comes off for the third corner I would think.
Those guys are getting practice reps with 3s. The preseason games will be there chance to show what they can do. Full speed, actual tackling and blocking, etc
Quote:
There are no surprises here.
On a rebuilding team? Based on what ? We have a load of skilled players, a vet QB, a Vet LT, several vets on defense. I just don't see it as a rebuilding team anymore. Depth is an issue sure but many teams across the league have depth issues. That's life. If the Giants stay healthy they will be a tough team to beat
I simply don't think you erase six or seven years of poor roster construction with one offseason no matter how much people want to be optimistic. There are a ton of different wheels spinning at once. New coach, entirely new defense, a very unforgiving schedule.
Aqua Giants : 3:21 pm : link : reply
Eli Manning is 37 years old. We needed to move on but signed a RB?
Considering the mess that this team was last year, that's potentially a pretty good 1st team and there are a lot of young hungry talent behind them. It's up to this staff (unlike the previous one) to develop the talent on the roster so the depth Becomes good.
When the dust settles, the degree of roster turnover will be significant. I suspect guys like R Lewis, Munson and maybe even D Thompson an Jerry may not be long for the roster. Replaced by young guys with potential. That's as good as they can do at this point.
Amba Etta Tawo will end up on the practice squad.
Lol... never heard that one before
Looks like we are going to run a lot of 2 TE. Shane's only chance might be to hang on as a hybrid FB/H-Back. So his competition is probably the other TEs.
Many clubs, Giants included, believed that none of the 2018 draft QBs are sure things -- and almost everyone believes SB is a sure thing.
Quote:
--no proven pass rusher outside of Vernon. Lorenzo Carter is going to get lots of chances as a rookie to be the other pass rusher. If OV goes down that pass rush looks paltry to say the least
--DL looks decent for a 3-4 setup. We know Snacks is a monster and Tomlinson is just about there. BJ Hill surprisingly wins the 3rd DL spot so that's a good sign for him
--Curtis Riley winning the FS spot off Darian Thompson is a bad sign for Thompson. CB depth is frightening. I'm not sure there's another NFL caliber corner on the team outside of Jenkins and Apple. If one of them gets hurt (and Apple isn't great anyway) that is going to be brutal
--Halapio as 1st team C instead of Jones tells me that Shurmur is a run-first coach as Halapio is much more of a mauler. Not sure that Halapio is exactly a good pass protector though. Wheeler is probably the backup LT and RT and they don't have another guy behind him. Solder, Hernandez and Omameh look good and I'm actually optimistic for Flowers at RT since he was probably supposed to be a RT anyway
--Skill positions look really good but we could use an outside receiver better than Cody Latimer. Saquon will crush it and make that OL look better than it is
If a guy with 55.5 career sacks isn't a proven pass rusher then I don't know what a proven pass rusher looks like (Barwin).
As for Latimer, I don't think anyone should make any judgements on him yet. He was blocked by some pretty good receivers with horrendous QB play last several seasons (Demaryius Thomas, Emmanuel Sanders). As a team they only completed 332 passes for just 5.4 Y/A which was near the bottom of the NFL. For comparison, the Giants completed 373 passes for 5.4 Y/A and our passing offense was pretty broken.
Latimer is a very good special teamer/returner and I think that is where you look for him to make the biggest impact, and anything else is gravy on top.
The Giants will have 4 excellent receiving options and not a lot of teams can compete with that. The outside receiver "hole" is overblown because Engram will find himself out there likely a lot of the time, as will Shepard, although I don't think that's the best use of his talent.
I don't think it's really that overblown. Just look at last year. If any of Beckham, Shepard, or Engram get nicked up even for a game the wheels come off.
Unless...the unproven options step up, which is certainly possible.
I'm not suggesting a pro-bowler at every position, and the names I suggested weren't outlandish, but the Giants signing Brandon Marshall last year was also probably a little bit about them not being comfortable with the 3rd WR (2nd outside WR) options.
Now this is a different front office, and a different depth chart, but I'm not confident the 2nd outside WR is addressed with the roster today.
Who knows, maybe the Giants have another Cruz in one of the young guys.
I feel better right now about the OL than I do about the 3rd WR or the 3rd CB.
And I thought Gay was going to be a slot CB. Surprised to see him at FS on the depth chart.
Gay very well could end up being the #1 or #2 slot corner.
Gay very well could end up being the #1 or #2 slot corner.
Good point and the depth chart certainly could be misleading on the slot corner position as it’s not listed like FB.
Is it possible that this is just an artifact of using a 12 package as the base for the depth chart? (Where would you list Smith in that set?)
There may be times when they move away from that formation and then the FB position becomes relevant.
I'm not sure how to read the listing of Smith as 4th RB in terms of his relative position on the team.
The fact that there has been a lot of shuffling in the depth is a good sign. Guys like Okwara, Thompson, Adams on D and Jones, Jerry and Lewis getting pushed down is a good sign that hopefully we have some better options.
Deayon seems to have been stepping it up as have many of the 2nd and 3rd teamers at WR.
While those signs are encouraging, we are talking about a very low bar. So it remains to be seen what they do when real bullets fly. Looking forward to preseason.
That said, depth OT, and ILB is truly frightening...
The fact that there has been a lot of shuffling in the depth is a good sign. Guys like Okwara, Thompson, Adams on D and Jones, Jerry and Lewis getting pushed down is a good sign that hopefully we have some better options.
Deayon seems to have been stepping it up as have many of the 2nd and 3rd teamers at WR.
While those signs are encouraging, we are talking about a very low bar. So it remains to be seen what they do when real bullets fly. Looking forward to preseason.
That said, depth OT, and ILB is truly frightening...
Fixed, should have been NOT a big surprise...
Okwara
Jerry
Munson
Lewis
Rudolph
All on the outside looking in.
Not mention the guys that were never invited to come back many of which were starters.
Vereen
Pugh
Richberg
Castillas
Robinson
Bromley
JPP
Wade
Bisnowati
Hart
Also,
Kennard, DRC, Darkwa and Fluker (who I liked)
Major and much needed house cleaning
Roster depth is an issue across the league. If we can stay as healthy as 2016, we should be ok.
I would feel a hell of a lot better if he was back on the roster. Did he burn some bridges with the organization last season?
SMH,we would have the same depth, but a rookie back up QB and Stewart.
Lewis has never shown me anything but speed. He has bad hands, runs bad routes, and doesn't fight for the ball. He is not an NFL receiver.
The Stewart signing continues to be puzzling. That money should have been used for a third CB or on the OL.
I see a troll. How's your dad?
They really aren't going to.
It's not a typo - Bettcher's defense features a "money" linebacker.
Hunter Sharp as WR #3 is surprising to me.
Amba Eta Tawo has been getting hype, but is buried on this depth chart.
Nick Gates had a lot of UDFA hype after the draft, but he's buried on the depth chart too.
Curtis Riley is obviously the biggest surprise.
Andrew Adams being listed as a SS and being 3rd team doesn't bode well for him.
It looks like it is Webb vs. Deayon for the slot corner job.
2. Gallman
3. Stewart
4. Gallway
The Stewart signing continues to be puzzling. That money should have been used for a third CB or on the OL.
They signed two OL in free agency, and drafted a third. What other OL should they have targeted in free agency?
Stewart was signed as a backup, they always intended to draft Barkley.
I agree the depth at OT is concerning, hopefully they will pick up one or two OL after teams cut down to 53.
Agreed.
I also think Riley might play a better center field when the DC opts to put Landon Collins in attack mode.
I think Thomas is also a guy who can cover as a fs having played a lot of slot corner.
Having a number of safeties who can provide pass coverage really provides the DC with maximum flexibility in terms of how he lines everyone up, disguises coverages and blitzes.
While depth at corner is an obvious concern, I am now thinking the DC may in fact play three safeties in certain packages, placing an additional safety in the game in lieu of one of our inexperienced teeny corners.
Quote:
Eli Manning is 37 years old. We needed to move on but signed a RB?
I see a troll. How's your dad?
He's been dead for years, I don't know why you have some obsession with my father.
Agreed. I have the same feeling but you are abashed on here if you don't comply and dare give your opinion. I don't know much about the defense. Who are these guys? I guess I can rest my hat on Collins, Harrison and Vernon but not much else to get pumped up about. Of course, someone is going to get injured.