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| Former Giants coach Ben McAdoo told Davis Webb last season that he planned to start the rookie quarterback for the final three games, Webb told WFAN on Tuesday. Of course, the Giants fired McAdoo before he had the chance to implement his plan. Talking to Chris Carlin and Maggie Gray, Webb said he was doing film breakdowns in November for Geno Smith, whom McAdoo had just named the starting QB for the upcoming game against Oakland, ending Eli Manning's 210-game starting streak. Then, "...Coach McAdoo walked in and said, 'Hey, the next three weeks, you're in,'" Webb said at Giants training camp in East Rutherford, New Jersey. |
I know you think I'm tooting my own horn...
why would we ever think that...
Mara doesn't need to sell the team - he needs to learn how to handle the end of the line more effectively for people who've meant a great deal to his team.
It strongly remains to be seen if Manning was the victim of or a chief contributor to the awfulness of the 2017 team. Whether now or in a few years it's in the best interest of the team to basically do the exact opposite of how he handled Coughlin, Reese, and Manning's benching.
He has the misguided notion every story has a happy ending, which has resulted in just ugliness for his organization. He's got to be the one to pull the band aid, absorb the hurt feelings then move on. Not cook up what he thinks are compromises.
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I know you think I'm tooting my own horn...
why would we ever think that...
Well you know what, dude? When somebody has argued with you tooth and nail for months, fighting you every step of the way and calling you a fanboy, worshipper, etc... It's a little hard not to point it out that yeah, you had a point the whole time.
The truth is, cutting Eli was never logical. Trading Eli was never logical. Asking Eli to restructure might have been a little more reasonable, but not a slam dunk. Forcing a QB at 2 at all costs if you didn't have conviction wasn't logical.
To me, THOSE were the more emotional stances. Eli was always going to finish out his contract here barring catastrophic injury. That was always the logical take.
crick n NC : 7:59 am : link : reply
Long BBI will add a "No Eli threads" to it's forum policy. Probably a good thing.
Which speaks more to the fact that there is a fairly large segment of the site who uses these threads to show their disdain for Eli.
I still maintain it is one of the more bizarre phenomenon you'll see.
LOL! His career is on the back nine, maybe they can hold off on the ban until he's in the clubhouse.
To get back on track here: In the next few weeks we'll start to get a good idea on whether or not Webb is a keeper. It won't be a definitive, but we'll have some idea on his abilities and progress to date.
I ❤ Eli
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Long BBI will add a "No Eli threads" to it's forum policy. Probably a good thing.
LOL! His career is on the back nine, maybe they can hold off on the ban until he's in the clubhouse.
To get back on track here: In the next few weeks we'll start to get a good idea on whether or not Webb is a keeper. It won't be a definitive, but we'll have some idea on his abilities and progress to date.
As mentioned before, I love the dynamic of that QB room right now.
The vet in Eli, and the competition between Webb and Lauletta. Should bring out the best in everybody.
Not impressed by the sound bites this guy has been giving recently.
Not impressed by the sound bites this guy has been giving recently.
Was he responding to a question that was specific to that situation? Regardless, it wasn't the most guarded of statements. Seems like a subject that should remain in house.
I know this response was to "Jimmy" and not to me, but I've got to say...Unprovoked my ass! The draft has been over for months and youre the one who cant let it go.
The day before this thread you started a thread to share a Schefter tweet about Darnold that essentially said that Darnold may or may not start this year. Of course the tweet told us nothing definitive, but your whole purpose in starting the thread was to reopen the pre-draft QB debate and state your opinion that its a good thing the Giants didnt choose Darnold @2, because would have been a risky pickall because Darnold may or may not be ready to start this year. (As if any QB the Giants chose @2 would have started game 1 with Eli still on the roster.)
Its YOU that chose to revisit the pre-draft debate for some bizarre reason. And when QB Snacks took YOUR bait and suggested that Darnold may have been the better choice (over Barkley) he was the one who was attacked on that thread, as if HE started the thread and HE was the one who couldnt move on.
You got what you wanted. You won. Its time to stop trying to rub other posters noses in it, just because they have a different opinion on whats best for the Giants.
As mentioned before, I love the dynamic of that QB room right now.
The vet in Eli, and the competition between Webb and Lauletta. Should bring out the best in everybody.
I tend to agree, particularly for the wedd and Lauletta.
Eli though has still got to show us that he can stem the declining attributes that have come out in his game for the past few seasons. And practically speaking, that is not going to come from some spark he sees in two younger QBs throwing the ball.
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As mentioned before, I love the dynamic of that QB room right now.
The vet in Eli, and the competition between Webb and Lauletta. Should bring out the best in everybody.
I tend to agree, particularly for the wedd and Lauletta.
Eli though has still got to show us that he can stem the declining attributes that have come out in his game for the past few seasons. And practically speaking, that is not going to come from some spark he sees in two younger QBs throwing the ball.
No, hopefully that spark will come from a revamped offensive line (crossing my fingers for average) and a dynamic RB for the first time in a LONG time.
That said, I also feel that Manning will be a good mentor to Webb and Lauletta, contrary to the thought that he couldn't be bothered to do it.
The front office kept Eli because they felt either yes he is the right guy or the right guy, in their minds, was not available to them thru another avenue. So they are waiting for Eli to show them he isn't the right guy or when another option is in their reaches.
I subscribed to the view that Eli is no longer that right guy, and that it was worth it to go down a different avenue this year. They didn't and we got a kick-ass RB instead who should be very valuable to Eli and the next guy at QB. But I am all-in on Eli, SB and the Giants to hopefully do great this year. But it doesn't mean they will, nor that going down another avenue wasn't correct...
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As mentioned before, I love the dynamic of that QB room right now.
The vet in Eli, and the competition between Webb and Lauletta. Should bring out the best in everybody.
I tend to agree, particularly for the wedd and Lauletta.
Eli though has still got to show us that he can stem the declining attributes that have come out in his game for the past few seasons. And practically speaking, that is not going to come from some spark he sees in two younger QBs throwing the ball.
My whole issue with Eli's declining skills is this
Age will cause any player to decline, of course not all the same. However, in Manning's case it's hard to tell how much he's lost because of his OL and the scheme from last season. Now we've had a coach like gilbride say manning hasn't lost much physically. I feel if he thought manning had lost skill he would have said things differently.
I don't recall anyone ever suggesting that Manning "couldn't be bothered" to mentor the young QBs. Did you read this somewhere or is this just a perceived Eli slight?
So less of a physical decline than a mental one.
So less of a physical decline than a mental one.
Is there a QB who wants to pay the price when they throw?more BSPN bulkshit from their new darling Louis Riddick. I am glad he was laughed out the door in his interview.
I wanted quarterback, hope I end up being wrong. And really hope Webb turns out to be better or as good as the guys they passed.
joeinpa : 9:42 am : link : reply
Something common here. Guys get so offended by opposing points of view, they end up rooting for the other guy to be wrong as much as they root for the Giants. Lol
I'm rooting for the Giants. I'm rooting for a 2 time SB MVP to have one more glorious run like his brother did. I'm rooting for success and to add to the 4 SB trophies.
I see much more commonly a negative take on a player, coach, owner or the team in general and then THOSE posters seemingly would rather be proven right than for the team to excel. Or they run with narratives that simply don't hold water like saying our ownership is completely incompetent.
When you have posters who will go to great lengths to minimize the impact Eli (or any specific player) had on SB wins, what possible motivation is there to do that? We won 2 SB's vs. the Pats. That's what history will remember. They won't ridiculously say we won because Asante Samuel didn't intercept a 10 foot high pass or have a panel discussion on if the D or Eli Manning played the biggest part in the win.
You still have posters who keep saying that Darnold becoming a solid QB will nullify the Barkley pick and make it a bad one regardless of how Barkley's career turns out , and I wouldn't be surprised if many of those guys hope Darnold turns out better.
As a fan, I hope rooting against negative takes comes to fruition. I don't logically see how the flip side of that should ever be true.
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You are in a box here. Because the guys rooting for Eli and also rooting for the other guy (Eli despisers) to be wrong, have to also be rooting for the Giants to succeed . There is coincidence in their rooting. SO, the only guys who can root for the other guy to be wrong more than rooting for the Giants, have to root for Eli (and also by extension the Giants) to fail.
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Something common here. Guys get so offended by opposing points of view, they end up rooting for the other guy to be wrong as much as they root for the Giants. Lol
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You are in a box here. Because the guys rooting for Eli and also rooting for the other guy (Eli despisers) to be wrong, have to also be rooting for the Giants to succeed . There is coincidence in their rooting. SO, the only guys who can root for the other guy to be wrong more than rooting for the Giants, have to root for Eli (and also by extension the Giants) to fail.
Exactly. Rooting for Eli IS rooting for the Giants.
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Britt s comments are indicative of
joeinpa : 9:42 am : link : reply
Something common here. Guys get so offended by opposing points of view, they end up rooting for the other guy to be wrong as much as they root for the Giants. Lol
I'm rooting for the Giants. I'm rooting for a 2 time SB MVP to have one more glorious run like his brother did. I'm rooting for success and to add to the 4 SB trophies.
I see much more commonly a negative take on a player, coach, owner or the team in general and then THOSE posters seemingly would rather be proven right than for the team to excel. Or they run with narratives that simply don't hold water like saying our ownership is completely incompetent.
When you have posters who will go to great lengths to minimize the impact Eli (or any specific player) had on SB wins, what possible motivation is there to do that? We won 2 SB's vs. the Pats. That's what history will remember. They won't ridiculously say we won because Asante Samuel didn't intercept a 10 foot high pass or have a panel discussion on if the D or Eli Manning played the biggest part in the win.
You still have posters who keep saying that Darnold becoming a solid QB will nullify the Barkley pick and make it a bad one regardless of how Barkley's career turns out , and I wouldn't be surprised if many of those guys hope Darnold turns out better.
As a fan, I hope rooting against negative takes comes to fruition. I don't logically see how the flip side of that should ever be true.
Sort of like the chicken and the egg.
In this case, on a Giants site, there had to be a reason for a staunch defense of the QB in the first place, didn't there?
I'm interested in trying to understand what's actually happening and what needs to happen in order for this bad team to improve - a concept that sometimes runs counter to "rooting for the Giants".
The first time I can recall seeing the "rooting vs. reality" separation on BBI was Lavar Arrington. When he was in Washington that guy was (correctly) viewed as an overrated joke. But then when we got him all of a sudden the view started to change to where he was a really good player. Absolutely ridiculous, and a window into which BBI opinions were actually worth something and which weren't worth reading.
Or take the Barkley pick. We'll all be rooting for him - I personally can't wait to watch him play and hope the whole offense revolves around him. But since he was picked I have seen arguments how it can be just as difficult to draft a good running back later in the draft as it is a quarterback - that is something that was NEVER said anywhere before we selected him. Many posters bent (and continue to bend) reality to fit the narrative that the Giants are doing a good job.
There isn't a bigger fan of Eli Manning here than me. I backed him on BBI when most of the posters here wanted him gone in 2006-2007. But being a fan of his doesn't change the fundamental facts of his age and cost vs. the opportunity we had to drastically reduce both those metrics with a top prospect during this past draft. I want Eli to be the QB for the next 40 years. That's not reality, and that kind of thinking doesn't help my understanding of what's actually happening.
I don't care about who anyone roots for. When we start coloring our understanding of the game (or anything in life) with what we actually want to have happen, we reduce the value of our understanding.
Shit, you may not believe me but I root for Beckham to do well for this team. But who gives a shit what I root for?
I don't care about who anyone roots for. When we start coloring our understanding of the game (or anything in life) with what we actually want to have happen, we reduce the value of our understanding.
What about when the belief of management aligns with your view on the situation? It's not just conjecture on a message board, these are the guys who are paid millions to make the decision, and their jobs rely on being right.
You believe that Eli's age and cost are prohibitive while the people in charge believe those things are not prohibitive to building a winning team, and that the current QB can be part of it. Is there understanding being colored?
Not a smartass question, I just seriously wonder. In your mind, do you stand by what you say and therefore believe they are wrong? Which is fine, but I don't know how you can say one side has understanding while the other does not.
And anybody that doesn't align with that, including management, doesn't have as good of an understanding of the situation?
I'm saying that what we are rooting for is irrelevant to any good discussion here. I'm saying that if we want to have good football conversations it's important to check what we're rooting for at the door.
The only ones I could come up with were Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson and that is because they have exceptional scrambling ability.
I don't even think Brady would have looked good behind this line with this run game and carousel of WRs and TEs. I think back to that Chiefs game where the Chiefs D-line got instant pressure all game, he was terrible, and all the pundits said he was "done." Well, they fixed the line, gave him time to throw, Belichick put everyone in a position to succeed, and they were great the rest of the way.
But that pressure that Brady saw every play with that caused him to look like he had nothing left in the tank? That's what Eli has dealt with seemingly every game for the last several years, except with also a nonexistent run game.
Last year was an abomination of injuries. Even still, I don't know how to properly evaluate Eli when he has had zero time to throw against a defense that got pressure with four linemen and never concerned itself with getting beat on the ground.
I'm saying that what we are rooting for is irrelevant to any good discussion here. I'm saying that if we want to have good football conversations it's important to check what we're rooting for at the door.
Well, since we're all seemingly rooting for the same thing (hopefully the Giants winning), then I would think checking that at the door would be irrelevant to good discussion, because we're still all going to have different ideas of how the Giants get there, for instance QB vs. RB at #2 overall.
It's the namecalling, labeling, and such that degrades good discussion. I'm guilty of it from time to time, too.
I don't agree with this. I was heavily involved in these debates near the end of last season and into the offseason, siding with those that thought it was time to move on from Manning. Aside from maybe a couple people, we are not actively rooting for him to fail.
Also, to say there little to no supporting evidence of declining skills is not true. He had no running game and a terrible offensive line in 2014 and 2015 too, yet was far better than he was in 2016 and 2017. You can blame it entirely on McAdoo's scheme if you want, but there is at least some very real evidence.
I am not saying he can't succeed this year if the line holds and the running game is much improved, but to read comments like Eli will unquestionably be the starter for the next 2-3 years is the same thing as someone on the other side saying he is garbage and will be benched by week 3.
I love the Maras or the family ownership here. I just think Mara should have asserted himself more (or less?) back when the NYG PR was as bad as its ever been. I dont want anyone drawn and quartered or held accountable I just dont want that shit to ever happen again here. Hopefully John learned a lesson. And hopefully he never hires a guy based on horse crap nostalgia and or the candidates interview prowess.
Eli is a qb that needs SOME things to be right in the offense. He doesnt need 99 Rams to make things work but he wont be able to elevate chicken shit into chicken marsala. There are some Eli bashers and Eli defenders alike that dont see this.
Eli will be the least of out problems this season. Just like he was the least of our problems last season. Just about every qb going would have gone down with the nyg good ship lollipop in 2017. Maybe a guy like Watson or Brady or Wilson or Rodgers would have helped the team win more games. Certainly possible, perhaps probable. But just about every qb going needs a structured and sound offense in order to thrive. Thats how the Nfl works. Mcadoo not only constructed and conducted a broken offense he never ever ever adjusted. Eli is a bit of a stiff qb that cant hide a bad offense. It was a recipe for disaster.
Fun take. Its horse shit rooted in some grassy knoll bullshit but hey, whatever keeps you going I guess.
Fun take. Its horse shit rooted in some grassy knoll bullshit but hey, whatever keeps you going I guess.
Eli had 2 SB's. One in the middle of that period and the other a few years later. In 2005 we won the division and trotted out 3 LB's that were literally on the street the week before. I was asked to play and politely declined to attend a sale on whitewall tires.
2006, Eli played decently and we lost a close game. The team was 8-8 and was in the bottom of the league in injuries. He didn't look bad in that game.
In 2008, that's an entire season of potential that was knee-capped. Literally.
Eli played terrible, but the offense after Plax was out wasn't good. The starting WR's were Hixon and Steve Smith.
so basically, in two games Eli looked bad, the team was missing key pieces and in the other game, he looked decent.
But again - why does this even have to be refuted?
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Dont sit here and ignore history. Every time the giants offense had at least some semblance of a running game, Eli delivered. Every. Single. Time! But now all of a sudden Eli is shot? Really? The giants coaching staff, GM and owner all are blinded by loyalty and love and refuse to see that Eli cant play anymore ? These same scouts and coaches and GM they are obsessed with winning all dont care about wins and losses they just want to appease John Mara? And Mara doesnt care either is that it?
Fun take. Its horse shit rooted in some grassy knoll bullshit but hey, whatever keeps you going I guess.
let's fact check that "every single time" opinion. The Giants had top 10 rushing attacks in 2005, 2006, 2008 and 2010 and were middle of the pack in 2009. How many playoff wins did we have in those five years where we had a semblance of a running game? How did Eli look in his playoff appearances in 2005, 2006 and 2008 when he had peak Tiki and Jacobs/Bradshaw/Ward behind a solid offensive line?
We made the playoffs 3 of those 4 years. And between some poor play, injuries, and some guys almost shooting their nuts off... the seasons didnt end the way we wanted too.
But hey lets remember those years instead of 07 and 11. Its funny how you openly root against Eli at this point.
Youre a tough critic. Im sure you will be as forgiving when the next nyg qb comes along and struggles all the time rather than occasionally, like Eli has.
And last time I checked if winning playoff games is important.. whats more important than winning the SB?
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How did Eli look in his playoff appearances in 2005, 2006 and 2008 when he had peak Tiki and Jacobs/Bradshaw/Ward behind a solid offensive line?
Eli had 2 SB's. One in the middle of that period and the other a few years later. In 2005 we won the division and trotted out 3 LB's that were literally on the street the week before. I was asked to play and politely declined to attend a sale on whitewall tires.
2006, Eli played decently and we lost a close game. The team was 8-8 and was in the bottom of the league in injuries. He didn't look bad in that game.
In 2008, that's an entire season of potential that was knee-capped. Literally.
Eli played terrible, but the offense after Plax was out wasn't good. The starting WR's were Hixon and Steve Smith.
so basically, in two games Eli looked bad, the team was missing key pieces and in the other game, he looked decent.
But again - why does this even have to be refuted?
Not good or consistent enough for ol' Les.
He even cites the good offensive line play... We agree on one thing, Les: Good offensive line 2005-2011 equals 5 playoff appearances and two championships. 2012-2017 Bad offensive line equals one playoff appearance and no playoff wins.