NFT: Reds and Mets

can finally get his ERA below 8 now that we're in August. Hopefully he's not on the opening day roster next year.

I was so sure he was a bad signing at the time. Unfortunately got that one right.

interesting

Good to see a Reyes-less lineup.

In comment 14031833 allstarjim said:

Quote:

Good to see a Reyes-less lineup.

You're not kidding! McNeil should play at least 5 games a week, as should Flores.

Wilmer on pace to have a nice little season (despite the defense) if he can finish the season healthy. He'll finish with over a win if he stays healthy which is more than Jay Bruce can say for 4 of the past 5 years.

been this terrible, while at the same time, also having so little to get excited about.

The last handful of years we sucked this bad, we had Harvey, Wheeler, deGrom, Thor and Matz all on the way up and last year Rosario.

Of course, deGrom starts would be exciting even in a shitty season if his run support wasn't such a travesty.

This is as bad and uncertain a time as there has been for the Mets since I've been watching them.

anything compares to the pre-Cespedes dog days of summer in '16. that lineup was so atrocious this one looks like murderers row in comparison

is going to miss more than one start.

Let's just remember this when people start penciling Matz in as some sort of reliable piece for 2019. If you want to see a contending Mets team in 2019, Matz needs to be one of a handful of guys fighting for the #5 spot, rather than penciled in the #4 spot.

He's performed like a #5 starter when he pitches over 2017-2018 and is constantly injured. Not a guy that we can rely on. Even hoping that one of Vargas/Lugo/Matz/Oswalt can hold #5 in 2019 is a big gamble that most contending teams wouldn't make, but we might not have a choice considering the holes everywhere else on the roster.

As our no 4 or no 5 this offseason!

season ending knee surgery

brainless says it's his decision to play Reyes so much, not the Wilpons and that Lugo is a SP next year... um why not now? lol

MLB Pipeline
‏Verified account @MLBPipeline
3h3 hours ago

#Mets No. 2 prospect (@MLB No. 63) Peter Alonso is enjoying his afternoon. He's 3-for-4 with a homer & 4 RBIs for the @LasVegas51s. It's the 3rd 3-hit performance in Alonso's past 7 games. https://atmlb.com/2Kz64Lj

And move Wilmer to third to see if his defense can hold up there

Rosario. Keep him at lead off rest of year. Finally speed at top of lineup

Rosario SS
McNeil 2b
Flores 3B.
Conforto LF
Alonso 1B
Nimmo RF
Jackson CF
Nido. Bring him back up. I�m tired of Plswicki and Mesarico

In comment 14031927 Earl the goat said:

Quote:

And move Wilmer to third to see if his defense can hold up there Rosario. Keep him at lead off rest of year. Finally speed at top of lineup Rosario SS McNeil 2b Flores 3B. Conforto LF Alonso 1B Nimmo RF Jackson CF Nido. Bring him back up. I�m tired of Plswicki and Mesarico

Cant really disagree other than a week with nido youll be hoping for the other catchers. Besides, Shecky just hit a hr!

In comment 14031846 JayBinQueens said:

Quote:

anything compares to the pre-Cespedes dog days of summer in '16. that lineup was so atrocious this one looks like murderers row in comparison

Short memories...The Mets were 53-50 and 2 games back of first place when they acquired Cespedes on 7/31/15. And they were exactly .500 for the month of July. The Mets weren�t great prior to the trade (a .500 team) but they weren�t atrocious either. It�s like people only remember that Familia-blown Padres game and use that as the barometer for the season. Not true.

This season (and last) are waaaaaaaay worse than that season.

Should not be allowed to throw 1 more pitch for this franchise. Just send him home at this point

is not playable at 3b. Since opening day 2016 he's 46th in DRS at 3b. He's atrocious over there.

In comment 14031941 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

In comment 14031846 JayBinQueens said: Quote: anything compares to the pre-Cespedes dog days of summer in '16. that lineup was so atrocious this one looks like murderers row in comparison Short memories...The Mets were 53-50 and 2 games back of first place when they acquired Cespedes on 7/31/15. And they were exactly .500 for the month of July. The Mets weren�t great prior to the trade (a .500 team) but they weren�t atrocious either. It�s like people only remember that Familia-blown Padres game and use that as the barometer for the season. Not true. This season (and last) are waaaaaaaay worse than that season.

It may have been 2015 and I'm mistaken but I remember John Mayberry Jr being put out as the #4 hitter on more than one occasion. No way our lineup is worse now than it was then

at 2B? Flores can't be worse there.

I said it above (or different thread maybe) and I'll say it again, but the way the Mets have handled Flores career amounts to malpractice. There was been worse fielding slower players given far more rope than Flores has been given.

He might be the Mets best hitter. And that includes Conforto.

only we never know since he's never been given an extended, uninterrupted run as a regular player.

In comment 14032370 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

at 2B? Flores can't be worse there. I said it above (or different thread maybe) and I'll say it again, but the way the Mets have handled Flores career amounts to malpractice. There was been worse fielding slower players given far more rope than Flores has been given. He might be the Mets best hitter. And that includes Conforto. only we never know since he's never been given an extended, uninterrupted run as a regular player.

Daniel Murphy was a Met 08-2014 and was worth -35 DRS over 3,770 innings, so yes, pro rated Wilmer Flores actually is worse at 3b than Daniel Murphy, Wilmer -18 over about 800 innings.

should read Daniel Murphy was a Met 08-2014 and was worth -35 DRS over 3,770 innings, so yes, pro rated Wilmer Flores actually is worse at 3b than Daniel Murphy was at 2b, Wilmer -18 over about 800 innings.

Mets defense would likely be the worst in baseball if Wilmer is at 3b, Alonso at 1b and there isn't substantial improvement from Rosario at SS. Easily the worst infield and assuming Bruce is a regular, likely the worst defense in the entire league.

In comment 14032377 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

should read Daniel Murphy was a Met 08-2014 and was worth -35 DRS over 3,770 innings, so yes, pro rated Wilmer Flores actually is worse at 3b than Daniel Murphy was at 2b, Wilmer -18 over about 800 innings.

I meant putting Flores as the regular everyday 2B vs Murphy as the regular everyday 2B.

In comment 14032380 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 14032377 DanMetroMan said: Quote: should read Daniel Murphy was a Met 08-2014 and was worth -35 DRS over 3,770 innings, so yes, pro rated Wilmer Flores actually is worse at 3b than Daniel Murphy was at 2b, Wilmer -18 over about 800 innings. I meant putting Flores as the regular everyday 2B vs Murphy as the regular everyday 2B.

Oh, I was merely responding to the idea Wilmer should be the 3b. He's not passable, I wish he were, he's just not. At 2b 704 innings career -9 DRS, not great but passable but again the issue is Alonso has very limited range (as does Wilmer) so you are putting yourself in a situation where you are back to complaining about defense ala Murphy/Duda. A lot if balls through the right side more likely than not. Wilmer every day at 2b isn't "impossible" at 3b it's just not an option (unless he were a truly great offensive player, he's not).

I was looking for a way to get Wilmer in the lineup consistently.

And Murphy/Duda went to a world series, so I can live with the poor D if the team can overcome it.

Maybe if Rosario moves to CF, they have an infield of McNeil (3b), Gimenez (SS), Flores (2b), Alonso (1b)

Does he have a strong enough arm for the OF?

you just get tired of seeing certain guys on the roster.

For me, I'm at that point with Flores. I think another one of his classic base running blunders the other night getting thrown out at the plate and almost getting killed sliding into home head first (again) was the straw that broke the camel's back.

He definitely has been mishandled, and he's not the only one, but I've had enough. Obviously Reyes, Lagares, Matz, Plawecki. Familia was another one before he got traded. I'm tired of expecting different outcomes for all of these guys year after year. It's exhausting, and every season plays out the same way.

Coaxhing them properly all these yrs

I think Wilmer Flores is probably destined to be a super utility and righty pinch-hitter going forward. Alonso is the 1B, probably starting this September.

They need a placeholder at 3B until Vientos is ready 3 or 4 years away. Is Cody Asche a possibility ?? Is Johan Camargo a FA after this year ??

I see on MMO they're thinking of playing Rosario in CF ??

In comment 14032416 Named Later said:

Quote:

I think Wilmer Flores is probably destined to be a super utility and righty pinch-hitter going forward. Alonso is the 1B, probably starting this September. They need a placeholder at 3B until Vientos is ready 3 or 4 years away. Is Cody Asche a possibility ?? Is Johan Camargo a FA after this year ?? I see on MMO they're thinking of playing Rosario in CF ??

Camargo is under the Braves control through 2023. This is only his 2nd season.

As much as Flores has been �mishandled� he�s the type of player who�s limitations will always prevent him from doing what he should be able to do well.
He�s a good hitter, but as a fan favorite he gets terribly overrated. He�s a good hitter who should be a very good bench player who can occasionally start a game. Problem is he is slow, so not a good fit on the bench. And terrible defensively, so not a good piece for the bench. Terrible situational,y, so not a good bench player.

It still doesn�t quite scan, given that Jose Reyes is one of the best players ever to play for the New York Mets, but it�s true. Purely from a baseball standpoint�surely the most charitable standpoint from which to view someone who was suspended for 51 games by Major League Baseball for an incident of domestic violence and subsequently released by a lousy team, and who returned to the Mets on waivers back in 2016�there simply isn�t any argument for keeping the current version of Jose Reyes on the Mets.

Keeping him around is not, it appears, a baseball decision. �Pro scouting advised his removal from the roster a long time ago,� a source familiar with the department�s thinking said.

Nick Francona, who worked in the Mets front office until earlier this season, put it even more bluntly: �It�s one of those things that just embarrasses the whole organization. There�s not a single other roster he would be on.�


Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14032444 Shecky said:

Quote:

As much as Flores has been �mishandled� he�s the type of player who�s limitations will always prevent him from doing what he should be able to do well. He�s a good hitter, but as a fan favorite he gets terribly overrated. He�s a good hitter who should be a very good bench player who can occasionally start a game. Problem is he is slow, so not a good fit on the bench. And terrible defensively, so not a good piece for the bench. Terrible situational,y, so not a good bench player.

Flores compares favorably to Daniel Murphy at a similar age (and even beyond) in almost every stat (except SB's).

Why can't Flores blossom with opportunity the way Murphy did?

Murphy was a butcher in the field too and he wasn't as slow as Flores but he was one of the dumbest base runners I can recall.

for Flores is 2B. He'll never be a great defensive player but he can be as valuable as a pre-breakout daniel murphy. I think he still has some untapped power potential when he gets to his late 20s.

McNiel did play some 3B in the minors right? I'm not saying move him to 3B to make room for Flores, but we should be trying to have our young guys be as positionally flexible as possible. Give McNeil reps and practice at as many positions that you can plausibly see him at.

These games don't matter anyway. Let's go all-in on getting ready for 2019. Don't give me BS that you're trying to win games when you start the likes of Vargas and Reyes. Flexibility with defensive positions is especially important in the NL and I hope it's something that the organization stresses going forward.

absolutely insane.

6 IP 0 ER, 1 BB 10K's.

not watching the game, but what did the Reds accuse him of?

tweets said they delayed the game and umpires met with deGrom on the mound.

anyone watching?

didn't realize it was a day game great line

In comment 14032461 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 14032444 Shecky said: Quote: As much as Flores has been �mishandled� he�s the type of player who�s limitations will always prevent him from doing what he should be able to do well. He�s a good hitter, but as a fan favorite he gets terribly overrated. He�s a good hitter who should be a very good bench player who can occasionally start a game. Problem is he is slow, so not a good fit on the bench. And terrible defensively, so not a good piece for the bench. Terrible situational,y, so not a good bench player. Flores compares favorably to Daniel Murphy at a similar age (and even beyond) in almost every stat (except SB's). Why can't Flores blossom with opportunity the way Murphy did? Murphy was a butcher in the field too and he wasn't as slow as Flores but he was one of the dumbest base runners I can recall.

It'd be great to find a spot for Flores. He's been pretty awful defensively at every position he's played, however. 3b was my hope for him, but he's been awful there.

today too, 5 runs is about 8 starts worth of runs for him this year.

I kind of like the Austin Jackson signing.

He's 31, 32 before next season, but he could be the type of veteran on the team that fills a big role. I'd like to see the Mets retain him for next year. He's no longer very good defensively, but not sure he's a major liability either.

I'm not sure how it works contractually the Rangers released him while he was under contract for 2018 and 2019 and the Mets then signed him and I know for 2018 they're responsible for the pro-rated portion of the 2018 salary, but what about 2019?

about how DeGrom just turned 30 and not 31. Good thing I actually finished reading your post PJ.

Jackson looks solid. Should be plenty of time to evaluate him. Even if his defense is diminished, he can move more than a few steps unlike the DH Jay Bruce that Sandy handed a 3 year deal to.

such a good year.

Reminds me a bit of the Dickey year where an insane year by a starter is going to waste and the team is wayyy out of it.

it is a great season for a shitty team, but very different otherwise.

deGrom has legit ace stuff. Dickey was obviously a knuckleballer and I always felt like with a knucleballer they could lose their sharpness at any time. and I watched enough Tim Wakefield (though acknowledge he throws a different KB from Dickey) to know any time there was a runner on 3rd base it was hold your breath time and hope there was no passed ball. The fact Dickey was able to sustain it for an entire season is incredible and worked out well for the Mets.

Dickey never had another season like that again. Alderson deserves all the shit he gets, but capitalizing on that Dickey season to get Thor was genius.

In comment 14032592 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

today too, 5 runs is about 8 starts worth of runs for him this year. I kind of like the Austin Jackson signing. He's 31, 32 before next season, but he could be the type of veteran on the team that fills a big role. I'd like to see the Mets retain him for next year. He's no longer very good defensively, but not sure he's a major liability either. I'm not sure how it works contractually the Rangers released him while he was under contract for 2018 and 2019 and the Mets then signed him and I know for 2018 they're responsible for the pro-rated portion of the 2018 salary, but what about 2019?

Rangers will be paying most of his 2019 contract. The NYM way: Signing players who are still being overpaid by another team for peanuts.

Alderson was his best move as a Met. TDA was the real centerpiece of that deal but Thor ended up being the big get.

In comment 14032647 Metnut said:

Quote:

Alderson was his best move as a Met. TDA was the real centerpiece of that deal but Thor ended up being the big get.

Agree. I think Wheeler for an aging Beltran as a 44 game rental was a great trade too.

today. Really want this kid to finish the year strong.

Jackson is a FA after 2018. The Mets do not have control.

is why the Jackson deal was a waste of time and I say that as someone who advocated signing him in the off-season



Daniel Wexler
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@WexlerRules
21 Dec 2017
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Austin Jackson might be an interesting value grab at the right price. Quietly had a very nice season #Mets

someone like Jackson for a minimum contract if there's still a hole in CF at the end of the offseason, maybe. But I'd start the offseason really aiming to improve the defense by adding positive impact defenders everywhere possible - especially the premium positions up the middle. C and CF being the top 2 items on the list, with 2B not that far behind depending on how Mcneil does the rest of the year.

There are already going to be enough headaches with the young guys defensively (Rosario, McNeil, Alonso) that they need to surround them with positive impact veterans.