So OSU comes out with a statement yesterday that they're going to make a decision on Meyer's future sometime in the next two weeks. All the tea leaves though are pointing to Meyer staying on as HC, be it Finebaum, Desmond Howard, & other college observers going on the record predicting he'll be returning. And now the latest betting odds has him sticking around.
Regardless, I gotta imagine someone at OSU loses their job over this. Based on what happened with Tressel and all that's going on in the wrestling program, AD Gene Smith should be in trouble regardless.
I think he's been a holier-than-thou prick most of his career, who turned a blind eye to criminals at Florida and uses Christianity to try and soften his smarminess.
I'm just pointing out that whether or not he keeps his job is likely on how the school views if his lying is a fireable offense.
Reporting it to someone was just to cover his ass so he didn't violate Title IX. But he knows that whoever he is reporting it to isn't going to go against what he wants. And he clearly wanted his buddy to stay on. If anyone on this board or in America believes someone else at Ohio State had the power to fire the assistant coach and go against Meyer, then I have a really nice bridge to sell them.
Smith denied that he hit his ex-wife. He still does to this day. He contends any level of physicality was to protect himself from his wife. She obviously says the opposite. Frankly, I have no idea who to believe.
So youre suggesting that Meyers, despite following protocol, needed to fire Smith because the standard should always be the accused is guilty before innocent. And that supersedes our actual justice system. Youre actually comfortable with that approach...
I guess you think the Duke lacrosse team rape allegation was handled perfectly by the Duke administration...
Im no OSU or Meyers supporter at all. Hes always rubbed me the wrong way. But if he believed his friend, and let him keep his job while the justice system played out, I dont see why that is such a horrible transgression...
So youre suggesting that Meyers, despite following protocol, needed to fire Smith because the standard should always be the accused is guilty before innocent. And that supersedes our actual justice system. Youre actually comfortable with that approach...
True, let Sandusky continue in their employ UNTIL the wheels of justice played out.
2. He knew there was allegations that was brought up to Meyer's Wife, and he did nothing about it.
3. He allegedly told his AD that there is something going on, and kept him on staff for years.
4. There is a text message excahnge that is out there showing he did admit to strangling her.
5. If he is innocent of everything - why did Urb fire him?
He isnt getting fired because OSU would rather win a few more games than do the right thing.
None of us know the truths in these type of situations. My take is usually twofold:
- Don't rush to judgment
- Stop making everything out to be a situation where all associated with a program have the dirt on their hands.
In the Duke lacrosse case, 3 players were kicked out of school and had to vigorously defend themselves from false claims. One players father lost his job from the allegations. The coach was fired. All because people didn't even wait for a case to be heard. That was rather unique in that it involved a dirty prosecutor, but still - it should have warned us the ills of waiting for the information to come out.
The Meyer case seems to me to come down to him lying to a reporter. He followed the protocol in disclosing the allegations against Smith. Again - it isn't like this story broke and people at OSU went "What??". The AD knew.
And Smith ended up getting fired. So there was action taken. I'm not sure what else people expect. How does Meyer prevent future abuse and why is that even an expectation? Did Meyer harm anyone by not acting more quickly? Did Meyer purposely try to hide or repress details?
From what I've heard and read, I don't think so. That's why the culpability probably rests with how the university deals with the lie to the reporter.
Why fire him at that point? If they believed in Smith then why did they stop believing in him when the public knew?
Bottom line is the only reason he got fired is because they knew that everything was going to come out.
Meyer had power over everyone at that school and him hiding behind following protocol is a fricking joke.
Im no OSU or Meyers supporter at all. Hes always rubbed me the wrong way. But if he believed his friend, and let him keep his job while the justice system played out, I dont see why that is such a horrible transgression...
If that were the case, then he wouldn't have fired him last month. He didn't let the justice system play out in that case because it was out in the public. Can't have it both ways. It's obvious the only reason he wasn't fired is because it was not public knowledge.
I'm just wondering what more action people expected.
Is Meyer not firing Smith sooner an offense he needs to answer for? I don't know.
For an employment standpoint, did he err? I don't know.
From a moral standpoint he likely did.
I imagine it is difficult to manage programs with a hundred or more players, coaches, student interns, etc. and scandals are a funny thing.
You can have an institutional academic scandal, avow no knowledge of it, and there aren't many calls to lose a job. Or you can have an alleged abuse situation, one that the police have responded to, one where the wife didn't press charges and one that the AD and others in the athletic department knew about and there is a lot of heat for Meyer to be canned.
I still maintain that it is the lying that would serve as a fireable offense more than anything else.
Oh boy - watch out!
If that were the case, then he wouldn't have fired him last month. He didn't let the justice system play out in that case because it was out in the public. Can't have it both ways. It's obvious the only reason he wasn't fired is because it was not public knowledge.
Well, this last time Smith committed a criminal act of trespassing - something to do with his wife and kids. Maybe Meyer had him on a short leash and said if anything else happens with this, you are out. So he pulled the trigger.
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If that were the case, then he wouldn't have fired him last month. He didn't let the justice system play out in that case because it was out in the public. Can't have it both ways. It's obvious the only reason he wasn't fired is because it was not public knowledge.
Well, this last time Smith committed a criminal act of trespassing - something to do with his wife and kids. Maybe Meyer had him on a short leash and said if anything else happens with this, you are out. So he pulled the trigger.
But he didn't fire him immediately. He was charged with criminal trespassing two months before he was fired. He only got fired when it was out in the public.
Ohio State is a fricking joke. I can't say I'm surprised.
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Summary Ohio State's "independent" investigation:
- Includes three Board of Trustees members
- A set timeframe
- No discussions with Zach Smith or Courtney Smith to find out what specifically happened and what Urban Meyer knew
It's almost like this working group isn't working
Link - ( New Window )
He's not getting fired. But Urb absolutely knew what was going on and kept him on staff for YEARS. No morals and is becoming a worse human being as the years go on.
Ohio St doesnt have the balls to fire him.
Meyer does not deserve any type of benefit of the doubt. I'm sure Ohio State will bring him back, he's a terrific football coach.
Nope. Especially when the one mother said "I dont remember what was said word for word." Their is evidence of him apologizing for strangling her. The mothers say they dont think he did it even though text messages have him admitting it.
The text message and Smith saying he had a convo about it with Urb years ago is all that needs to be seen in thsi light. Smith lied to Urb, Urb did not follow up, he kept him on staff, ignored other violations by Smith, and then fired him because rumors swirled.
If you stick with what the wife said, the text messages, and Urbs action following it, theres nothing muddled about it.
He could have and should have done more. He should have fired him when it first came up in Florida. But didnt. Then turned a blind eye for years followjng it.
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does not mean much?
Nope. Especially when the one mother said "I dont remember what was said word for word." Their is evidence of him apologizing for strangling her. The mothers say they dont think he did it even though text messages have him admitting it.
I'll preface by saying I believe Zach is guilty of what he's accused of, but a text message can easily be manipulated by someone with an agenda. That is not concrete evidence.
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I'll recognize my own conflicted emotions and potential bias in this situation as this is my alma mater and I know the parties involved. But only as long as those who have ripped Urban for years on here do the same. The initial reports came out, those people immediately said he should be gone. As facts come out, the situation becomes more and more muddled. There is nothing obvious about this situation, it is an absolute mess.
The text message and Smith saying he had a convo about it with Urb years ago is all that needs to be seen in thsi light. Smith lied to Urb, Urb did not follow up, he kept him on staff, ignored other violations by Smith, and then fired him because rumors swirled.
If you stick with what the wife said, the text messages, and Urbs action following it, theres nothing muddled about it.
He could have and should have done more. He should have fired him when it first came up in Florida. But didnt. Then turned a blind eye for years followjng it.
He should have fired him earlier. Yes. Eventually your damn WR coach is not worth the trouble, no matter what his family connections are. But is it Urban's job to follow up on an investigation that the police have already announced they are not pursuing? He's not a detective
Considering he has admitted to strangling her and abusing her, it doesn't.
She may be a fucking loon for all we know. Why would he admit to her in a text that he strangled her if he didn't?
The wife may be insane, too. We don't know, doesn't mean that the husband is any less insane because she is too.
I still can't believe Urban put out that statement last week. He doesn't really think that the country is that fricking dumb to believe he was caught off guard, does he?
This has been rightfully thrown in Urban's face for years. He did not run a tight ship at Florida, to say the least. And there were some issues when he first got to OSU. But for five years now there have been minimal issues with player discipline. He changed a lot of things in that regard.
He created this mess, and then he made it worse by blatant lying in the press conference. All of that put together and he does not deserve to coach another game at Ohio State. I would be stunned if they didn't bring him back, because at the end of the day all they really care about is winning football games, as long as its not an NCAA issue where they will be banned from postseasons or something then they dont care
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does not mean much?
Considering he has admitted to strangling her and abusing her, it doesn't.
She may be a fucking loon for all we know. Why would he admit to her in a text that he strangled her if he didn't?
The wife may be insane, too. We don't know, doesn't mean that the husband is any less insane because she is too.
I still can't believe Urban put out that statement last week. He doesn't really think that the country is that fricking dumb to believe he was caught off guard, does he?
He hasn't admitted it in person. There are only those text messages with his name on the top. Now I don't believe him, but it is absolutely a he said, she said situation. This touches a lot more people than just his employer. We knew within the program that their situation was an absolute mess.
I think the statement was his only shot though. He had to be up front about being aware of the charges. For the life of me, I'll never understand how he wasn't prepared to answer in that manner at media days. He had to know he'd be asked the question. It's a complete failure from administration on down to not be ready for that. I'll never understand that. But is lying to the media fireable? I'm not sure
He created this mess, and then he made it worse by blatant lying in the press conference. All of that put together and he does not deserve to coach another game at Ohio State. I would be stunned if they didn't bring him back, because at the end of the day all they really care about is winning football games, as long as its not an NCAA issue where they will be banned from postseasons or something then they dont care
So in 2015 the situation comes to him in the middle of a season. He hears Zach's side of the story. He then is told that the police are not pursuing charges. He should then fire him at that point? That seems like a major stretch and I'm not sure any coach in the country takes that action.
He should have been more prepared a few weeks back or he should have just given a no comment to have more time to be ready. He fucked up there. I don't know that he should be fired for that. But again, I recognize I''m conflicted about the situation
Only reason he got fired this time is because the public knew.
Didnt he also know of issues with Smtitg and his wife almost 10 years ago, too?
Everything else points to him deserving to be fired.
No one on this planet can argue that he did the right thing.
Sad thing is if he didn't blatantly lie at media day, this probably never comes out.
The guy cares about one thing and one thing only, winning. Doing the right thing does not exist in his world.
He was willing to stick by his boy until it became public knowledge. That to me is another reason to fire him. If he thought what he was doing was the right thing, why did he fire him last month? He knew what he was doing was wrong, but he was willing to protect his buddy as long as the public didn't know.
Meyer may have known about the allegation but he didnt know if it was a fact. Smith denied it, so the situation entered the legal process. Why should he have been fired for that part?
And Meyers didnt fire Smith because of new rumors. He fired him because Smith was arrested for criminal trespassing. And my guess he was on a very short leash, per Meyers, so the firing was inevitable. Even Smith admitted in his ESPN that when he was fired this time, finally, it was justified.
You are sloppy with the facts here...
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for strangling her and abusing her - their opinions dont mean as much. There was obvious physical force done. Urb knew. Kept him on staff for years, and once rumors started to swirl again, he fired him.
Meyer may have known about the allegation but he didnt know if it was a fact. Smith denied it, so the situation entered the legal process. Why should he have been fired for that part?
And Meyers didnt fire Smith because of new rumors. He fired him because Smith was arrested for criminal trespassing. And my guess he was on a very short leash, per Meyers, so the firing was inevitable. Even Smith admitted in his ESPN that when he was fired this time, finally, it was justified.
You are sloppy with the facts here...
So he is told of the allegation, the guy being accused of it says he didnt do it - and Urb goes "Ok, good for me!!!"
Right....
At least don't be intentionally obtuse
He was willing to stick by his boy until it became public knowledge. That to me is another reason to fire him. If he thought what he was doing was the right thing, why did he fire him last month? He knew what he was doing was wrong, but he was willing to protect his buddy as long as the public didn't know.
What exactly is wrong with sticking with someone you believe in? Its human nature to believe in your friends. In this case, the facts are still very sketchy and unclear.
Yet, you seem to know exactly what happened. How are you that certain?
At least don't be intentionally obtuse
So in 2009 he lets it go, in 2015, he lets it go. In 2018, he decides to get tough because he tresspasses. Gotta draw the line somewhere, right?
So he is told of the allegation, the guy being accused of it says he didnt do it - and Urb goes "Ok, good for me!!!"
Right....
Just to make sure I understand your thinking, as soon as the allegation was raised, Meyer should have fired Smith, regardless of the facts.
Does that about sum up your cut and dry world?
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So he is told of the allegation, the guy being accused of it says he didnt do it - and Urb goes "Ok, good for me!!!"
Right....
Just to make sure I understand your thinking, as soon as the allegation was raised, Meyer should have fired Smith, regardless of the facts.
Does that about sum up your cut and dry world?
So let me understand your thinking. 2009 he was aware of abuse, and let it go. In 2015, he knew and let it go. Somewhere in 2018, he knew of it and let it go.
If I am a coach, and there is allegation of domestic abuse, I either A) look into and get it resolved. B) Fire him.
The woman told Urb's wife. There is a text message of him apologizing. What does Urb need? A confession from his coach to act? Bullshit. He is the head coach of a major D-1 progam and tried to hide something and lied about it.
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He was willing to stick by his boy until it became public knowledge. That to me is another reason to fire him. If he thought what he was doing was the right thing, why did he fire him last month? He knew what he was doing was wrong, but he was willing to protect his buddy as long as the public didn't know.
What exactly is wrong with sticking with someone you believe in? Its human nature to believe in your friends. In this case, the facts are still very sketchy and unclear.
Yet, you seem to know exactly what happened. How are you that certain?
Why did he fire him then? If Urban was just about "believing in his friend" then why did he fire him last month?
He only fired him because the public knew. Funny how that works.
If Urban truly believed his buddy was right, he would not have canned him the second something was reported. Right and wrong don't change because the public knows.
If Urban truly believed his buddy was right, he would not have canned him the second something was reported. Right and wrong don't change because the public knows.
Im not sure why this is difficult to grasp - the 2009 and 2015 incidents were vehemently denied by Smith. The local police and authorities agreed, and were unconvinced the wife had a case. If you believe in due process, why the hell should Smith lose his job? And stories are coming to the surface that Smiths wife may not be this innocent angel. She may have a serious credibility issue. I dont know one way or the other, but I think there is so much more to learn, and not draw premature, unnecessary conclusions.
Like I said earlier, my guess is Meyer told Smith hes on a short leash for ANYTHING from that point (2015) forward. Even the smallest thing. So when Smith was arrested for criminal trespassing (he drive ve up his ex-wifes driveway to drop off their son, so he likely was deemed too close to her residency) Meyer simply had no choice. Smith got himself in a bad situation and Meyer had an easy decision. Again, even Smith said he deserved to be fired because he knew he had to be ultra careful...
Your way of enacting justice and punishment sounds a lot more dangerous than anything Meyer may have done (assuming this continues to trend in his favor with the facts)...
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and wrong is wrong.
If Urban truly believed his buddy was right, he would not have canned him the second something was reported. Right and wrong don't change because the public knows.
Im not sure why this is difficult to grasp - the 2009 and 2015 incidents were vehemently denied by Smith. The local police and authorities agreed, and were unconvinced the wife had a case. If you believe in due process, why the hell should Smith lose his job? And stories are coming to the surface that Smiths wife may not be this innocent angel. She may have a serious credibility issue. I dont know one way or the other, but I think there is so much more to learn, and not draw premature, unnecessary conclusions.
Like I said earlier, my guess is Meyer told Smith hes on a short leash for ANYTHING from that point (2015) forward. Even the smallest thing. So when Smith was arrested for criminal trespassing (he drive ve up his ex-wifes driveway to drop off their son, so he likely was deemed too close to her residency) Meyer simply had no choice. Smith got himself in a bad situation and Meyer had an easy decision. Again, even Smith said he deserved to be fired because he knew he had to be ultra careful...
Your way of enacting justice and punishment sounds a lot more dangerous than anything Meyer may have done (assuming this continues to trend in his favor with the facts)...
You're ignoring the fact that Smith's arrest for trespassing happened 2 months before he got fired. Smith was fired the day it was reported by McMurphy. You don't believe that Meyer knew nothing of it until McMurphy reported it, do you?
He was issued a criminal trespassing citation middle of May. He was fired on July 23rd after McMurphy reported on the situation.
Unless you somehow believe Meyer had no knowledge of what happened in May until July 23rd, then everything you said up there is meaningless.
It would hold water if he fired him in mid May, but he didn't. He didn't do anything until McMurphy uncovered everything. If McMurphy didn't come out with the original story, Smith would still be coaching at Ohio State
If people believe that, they should really take a couple steps back and look at it differently
You're ignoring the fact that Smith's arrest for trespassing happened 2 months before he got fired. Smith was fired the day it was reported by McMurphy. You don't believe that Meyer knew nothing of it until McMurphy reported it, do you?
He was issued a criminal trespassing citation middle of May. He was fired on July 23rd after McMurphy reported on the situation.
Unless you somehow believe Meyer had no knowledge of what happened in May until July 23rd, then everything you said up there is meaningless.
It would hold water if he fired him in mid May, but he didn't. He didn't do anything until McMurphy uncovered everything. If McMurphy didn't come out with the original story, Smith would still be coaching at Ohio State
I dont know why Meyer took two months from the time of the arrest to the time of the release. I guess thats a fair question. I dont find it nefarious.
Regardless, it doesnt change the facts of the previous two evens. Meyer followed protocol with school rules, and Smith never had charges pressed against him.
When and if he should have fired a staff member accused of a crime is a completely different matter. Unfortunately for one the Smiths, the fairest outcome is for the facts to unfold. If the allegations are never determined true, (even if they were) I don't believe Meyer should be in a position to adjudicate, and punish his staff. That's not an employers place.
Now when the court intervened and indicated there was sufficient credibility to order protection, I would think it wise for Smith to be placed on leave until more information was available or practically until the situation blew over.