Gettleman on "positional value"

I guess its glass half full kind of thing. You could also say they didn't see a slam dunk franchise QB either.

Bottom line they saw Barkley as a generational talent and didn't see those QB's as that.

In comment 14036092 Zepp said:

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I guess its glass half full kind of thing. You could also say they didn't see a slam dunk franchise QB either. Bottom line they saw Barkley as a generational talent and didn't see those QB's as that.

Zepp nails it. Not rocket science as to Giants’ beliefs, imv

that if barkley is a hall of famer and darnold is a hall of famer, giants made a bad pick, i think that is bs...

you draft a hall of famer no matter the position it is a good pick

In comment 14036097 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

that if barkley is a hall of famer and darnold is a hall of famer, giants made a bad pick, i think that is bs... you draft a hall of famer no matter the position it is a good pick

dont buy

but they were picking SB unless he was gone #1.

when you already have a franchise QB on the roster. Which is what DG thinks he has in Eli.

If he was blundering through seasons with with modern equivalent of Kent Graham and Danny Kanell, you'd see him doing SOMETHING to acquire or draft one -- generational talent or not.

If he wasn’t a steal there. But to say there isn’t a difference in the positional value between RB and QB, or to say you don’t recognize the difference, is absurd. Not only is a top QB in the NFL today more valuable than a top RB but the playing life span of the two is night and day. How may RBs have the career length of an Eli or Brady and that’s not unusual. Half that would be impressive for a RB. Just stop with a HOF RB and QB are of equal value. They aren’t on a couple of levels.

Ditto

Than any other position. That is a fact. To my eyes, Darnold has looked like the obvious pick and NYG should have run to the podium to take him. He’s the complete package and will be a star. I’ve no idea what his doubters are seeing. There is a very good chance we are going to regret passing on him.

That he should be the highest paid player in the league. You know, given that positional value doesn’t matter.

Brett Favre (or insert Steve Young or Troy Aikman, etc.).

definitely the QB. it's not even close.

that said, I'm super excited about having SB on the team.

In comment 14036113 UberAlias said:

Quote:

Than any other position. That is a fact. To my eyes, Darnold has looked like the obvious pick and NYG should have run to the podium to take him. He’s the complete package and will be a star. I’ve no idea what his doubters are seeing. There is a very good chance we are going to regret passing on him.

No matter WHAT the Giants think/thought of Barkley, they would have taken Darnold in a nanosecond if he was, in their judgement, anything close to what you see in the guy.

In comment 14036116 markky said:

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Brett Favre (or insert Steve Young or Troy Aikman, etc.). definitely the QB. it's not even close. that said, I'm super excited about having SB on the team.

If a “Brett Favre” was there, the Giants would have sprinted to the podium. He wasn’t according to the evaluators, hence, it was “Sanders.”

Based on what? 1 preseason game? As Rodgers would say, R-E-L-A-X.

Jarrod Bunch.

Gettleman might not expressly believe in positional value, but he's full of shit if he thinks he doesn't practice it.

He wouldn't take a center, guard, kicker, punter, etc. at no. 2 overall as the league stands right now.

There's a natural grouping of positions that will always be more important. And then the league evolves -- it's in a transition where RB is getting back in that group. If teams veer to far back to a run game you'll see interior lineman and inside LBs rise into that group too.

Still can’t believe we used the 2 on a RB. One way or another, this pick will he remembered for a long time.

I've never seen so much hand wringing over such a situation.

They had their pick of any QB other than Mayfield (and probably could have traded up for him if they really loved him, which Gettleman said they would do if they saw a guy like that), and they passed.

DG, Shurmur, Shula, and Mara decided that ELI would be the QB for the next couple of years. Once that was made it was a matter of getting the best value for our #2 pick. Lets move on and hope they made the right call.

In comment 14036119 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 14036113 UberAlias said: Quote: Than any other position. That is a fact. To my eyes, Darnold has looked like the obvious pick and NYG should have run to the podium to take him. He’s the complete package and will be a star. I’ve no idea what his doubters are seeing. There is a very good chance we are going to regret passing on him. No matter WHAT the Giants think/thought of Barkley, they would have taken Darnold in a nanosecond if he was, in their judgement, anything close to what you see in the guy.

Perhaps. But this is counter to everything DG has said. In the end, DG owns this decision. I sure hope he knows what he’s doing and we don’t regret passing up on Darnold.

In comment 14036128 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Based on what? 1 preseason game? As Rodgers would say, R-E-L-A-X.

My opinion based on everything. Not one preseason game.

In comment 14036113 UberAlias said:

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Than any other position. That is a fact. To my eyes, Darnold has looked like the obvious pick and NYG should have run to the podium to take him. He’s the complete package and will be a star. I’ve no idea what his doubters are seeing. There is a very good chance we are going to regret passing on him

He had Barkley rated way higher than anyone else on the board. And in everything I read, there were significant questions about everyone of the QBs. My guess is that if Josh Rosen had a clean medical, it might have been a much harder decision than it was. But, like a few posters said, they’ve played 1 preseason game.

is preposterous.

Faulk over Kurt Warner.

You do realize that Eli Manning, the QB the team is all in on, has led the league in INTs or tied 3 times and is top 10 all times among QBs in fumbles and most among active QBs, including 2 nd in the NFL in 2007 when he won the SB, right? But hey, who needs facts.

I'll never understand the upset over people discussing a topic you don't like.

Counter the argument, but getting aghast that some have an opinion and will continue to discuss this draft seems weird.

It's a big, organization changing decision. It's going to be dissected for years to come.

In comment 14036167 UberAlias said:

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You do realize that Eli Manning, the QB the team is all in on, has led the league in INTs or tied 3 times and is top 10 all times among QBs in fumbles and most among active QBs, including 2 nd in the NFL in 2007 when he won the SB, right? But hey, who needs facts.

So that makes drafting a turnover machine to be the heir apparent is a good idea?

In comment 14036185 cokeduplt said:

Quote:

In comment 14036167 UberAlias said: Quote: You do realize that Eli Manning, the QB the team is all in on, has led the league in INTs or tied 3 times and is top 10 all times among QBs in fumbles and most among active QBs, including 2 nd in the NFL in 2007 when he won the SB, right? But hey, who needs facts. So that makes drafting a turnover machine to be the heir apparent is a good idea?

Seriuosly? Um, it means you can’t look at one stat and expect it to tell the whole story. This would seem to be obvious.

In comment 14036189 UberAlias said:

Quote:

In comment 14036185 cokeduplt said: Quote: In comment 14036167 UberAlias said: Quote: You do realize that Eli Manning, the QB the team is all in on, has led the league in INTs or tied 3 times and is top 10 all times among QBs in fumbles and most among active QBs, including 2 nd in the NFL in 2007 when he won the SB, right? But hey, who needs facts. So that makes drafting a turnover machine to be the heir apparent is a good idea? Seriuosly? Um, it means you can’t look at one stat and expect it to tell the whole story. This would seem to be obvious.

Let’s see what happens Darnold wasn’t very good at USC last year. Now he’s a lick hall of famer after throwing 90 yards in a preseason game

Not lick

Anyone remember how unstoppable Rick Mirer or RG3 looked their rookie seasons? What happened afterward again?

Exactly. Too early to tell on these guys.

In comment 14036097 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

that if barkley is a hall of famer and darnold is a hall of famer, giants made a bad pick, i think that is bs... you draft a hall of famer no matter the position it is a good pick

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

In comment 14036213 NYSports1 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036097 nygiants16 said: Quote: that if barkley is a hall of famer and darnold is a hall of famer, giants made a bad pick, i think that is bs... you draft a hall of famer no matter the position it is a good pick HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

what are you laughing at troll? so if barkley is hall of famer you are going to be mad?

what am i saying you would rather be right than barkley be good...

In comment 14036197 cokeduplt said:

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Not lick

I’m not sure who you are having this discussion with. I didn’t see anyone say anything close to that. It might make for better conversation to address people’s actual points rather than making things up.

Nothing is close to certain now. Everyone agrees with that. But there was much talk about their being no QBs in this draft worthy of being a franchise player. We now have have first of many opportunities to begin evaluating/debating the notion. I’m that one small first test, two of the QBs at least past with flying colors. But the debate will go one for years before anything is certain.

In comment 14036214 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036213 NYSports1 said: Quote: In comment 14036097 nygiants16 said: Quote: that if barkley is a hall of famer and darnold is a hall of famer, giants made a bad pick, i think that is bs... you draft a hall of famer no matter the position it is a good pick HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what are you laughing at troll? so if barkley is hall of famer you are going to be mad? what am i saying you would rather be right than barkley be good...

No because this has zero to do with barkley. I think he is going to be very good for us but the notion that you feel if Darnold or any other qb we could have taken is a HOF is the same as SB being a hof is pathetic

Judging by the amount of hits and responses to the theme of this post, most don t share the view that it s tiresome

and said fuck it no qb we get a rb...He should be fired today for such dumb thinking.

Is one thing to say he did not like the qb but to think Eli is a franchise qb still is laughable.

you still going to be bitching?

Both can be looked at as two of the very top echelon of their respective positions in the past 40 years in the NFL.

And anybody implying on this thread that they wouldn't rather have drafted the HOF QB Elway over the HOF RB Sanders, knowing both would achieve that status ahead of time, is foolish.

That being said, if Gettleman only saw the vision of Barkley reaching similar status vs. Darnold or any other QB this year, he absolutely made the right decision. Time will tell us if his vision is any good...

Barkley is going to be a great player for us. Let’s hope they can now figure out the long term answer at QB. That’s a huge franchise altering question.

it doesnt mean the jets are going to go win championships, just like it doesnt mean giants are going to win championships with barkley if he is a hall of famer...

key is identifying the talent and building around them...

we all can agree rodgers is a better qb than eli, who has more championships?

joe flacco who js nowhere near a hall of fame.player has the same amount of championships as aaron rodgers...

drafting the qb does not mean you are going to win, and it does not make it any easier

but didnt win until the end of his career when he had a great running back

Carrying them on his shoulders.

It was a great running game, not just the back. Player after player had success in that backfield, not just Davis.

In comment 14036254 UberAlias said:

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Carrying them on his shoulders.

but that is my point he could only take them so far, it takes a team to win a championship not just a great qb..

By 98 Elway was more a game manager, but he had a fantastic season in 97.

In comment 14036258 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036254 UberAlias said: Quote: Carrying them on his shoulders. but that is my point he could only take them so far, it takes a team to win a championship not just a great qb..

Yes, but you're getting caught up the nuance of competing for championships vs. winning them. Elway absolutely brought the value that Denver consistently competed for them almost every year. The improved running game got them over the hump in winning the last game a couple of times.

I could agree with "best player" but "best athlete" scares me. There are plenty of great "athletes" that are not great players.

In comment 14036267 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

In comment 14036258 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 14036254 UberAlias said: Quote: Carrying them on his shoulders. but that is my point he could only take them so far, it takes a team to win a championship not just a great qb.. Yes, but you're getting caught up the nuance of competing for championships vs. winning them. Elway absolutely brought the value that Denver consistently competed for them almost every year. The improved running game got them over the hump in winning the last game a couple of times.

but again it proves my point, having the hall of fame qb does not guarantee you anything

no one is denying elway was a hall of fame player and big part of bringing championships to denver...

my point is even john elway needed help...

not a debate or point worth discussing.

In comment 14036250 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

but didnt win until the end of his career when he had a great running back

So dumb....Eli and Peyton have the same amount of SB wins and Eli is not in the same planet as Peyton.

Each year the fans of the Colts and Broncos knew they were going to be great on offense and make the playoffs.

With Eli we have some blind fait in the last 5 years and most times fans here predict 6-10 records.


THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.....A true long term franchise hof qb does not miss the playoffs as much as Eli and also gives fans the belief that eve if no sb they will be a good team making the playoffs

With Eli the last few years we are hoping we can score more than 20

In comment 14036286 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

not a debate or point worth discussing.

so why are people so bent out of shape the team passed on darnold..

if both are hall of famers them singular does not get the giants any closer to championship...

if darnold was drafted the giants are not any closer to a championship opposed to drafting barkley...

In comment 14036287 NYSports1 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036250 nygiants16 said: Quote: but didnt win until the end of his career when he had a great running back So dumb....Eli and Peyton have the same amount of SB wins and Eli is not in the same planet as Peyton. Each year the fans of the Colts and Broncos knew they were going to be great on offense and make the playoffs. With Eli we have some blind fait in the last 5 years and most times fans here predict 6-10 records. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.....A true long term franchise hof qb does not miss the playoffs as much as Eli and also gives fans the belief that eve if no sb they will be a good team making the playoffs With Eli the last few years we are hoping we can score more than 20

isnt the point to win championships? not just make the playoffs?

if you win 1 superbowl with barkley and never make the playoffs again, i would take that over playoffs every year and never winninh with darnold...

making the playoffs is great but if you do not win a championship what is the point?

In comment 14036289 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036286 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: not a debate or point worth discussing. so why are people so bent out of shape the team passed on darnold.. if both are hall of famers them singular does not get the giants any closer to championship... if darnold was drafted the giants are not any closer to a championship opposed to drafting barkley...

Well let's see

With a qb we will be competitive year in and year out

With a rb with no qb we will be losing most years even if he plays great.

It is not rocket science

If you tell me that Darnold and SB both will make the HOF one day and which I prefer

I will take the qb because I know that if you have a HOF at that position you will be in the mix year in and year out

A RB? no chance

that would give up a championship for 10 years of playoffs...

Sorry. He prob said player. I was working out when John S and Feagles made the point

In comment 14036292 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036287 NYSports1 said: Quote: In comment 14036250 nygiants16 said: Quote: but didnt win until the end of his career when he had a great running back So dumb....Eli and Peyton have the same amount of SB wins and Eli is not in the same planet as Peyton. Each year the fans of the Colts and Broncos knew they were going to be great on offense and make the playoffs. With Eli we have some blind fait in the last 5 years and most times fans here predict 6-10 records. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.....A true long term franchise hof qb does not miss the playoffs as much as Eli and also gives fans the belief that eve if no sb they will be a good team making the playoffs With Eli the last few years we are hoping we can score more than 20 isnt the point to win championships? not just make the playoffs? if you win 1 superbowl with barkley and never make the playoffs again, i would take that over playoffs every year and never winninh with darnold... making the playoffs is great but if you do not win a championship what is the point?

So I guess why watch football then is there is no point unless you win the sb.

Yea great line of thought

1 - because I just told you the QB value in the team equation of competing for championships is greater than the RB

2- because some folks on BBI think Eli is done and this is wasting time

3 - some on BBI simply liked Darnold more than any RB (or fill in your favorite QB name)

4 - because people get bent out of shape on BBI on most any topic...

To be dismissing the value of a good quarterback

It s a quarterback league, there is no other position close to it s importance

but are in the playoffs every year? that is moronic

In comment 14036302 joeinpa said:

Quote:

To be dismissing the value of a good quarterback It s a quarterback league, there is no other position close to it s importance

you can absolutely win with a good qb and a great team opposed to a great qb and good team...

having the great qb is not a prerequisite to winning

In comment 14036292 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

isnt the point to win championships? not just make the playoffs? if you win 1 superbowl with barkley and never make the playoffs again, i would take that over playoffs every year and never winninh with darnold... making the playoffs is great but if you do not win a championship what is the point?

You are lost in the weeds. Nobody evaluating talent can see so sharply into the future whether a draftable player is the difference between just getting to a superbowl and winning one. You pick the best players that can directionally point you down that path, and then the chips fall where they fall.

Get back to reality....

In comment 14036308 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

In comment 14036292 nygiants16 said: Quote: isnt the point to win championships? not just make the playoffs? if you win 1 superbowl with barkley and never make the playoffs again, i would take that over playoffs every year and never winninh with darnold... making the playoffs is great but if you do not win a championship what is the point? You are lost in the weeds. Nobody evaluating talent can see so sharply into the future whether a draftable player is the difference between just getting to a superbowl and winning one. You pick the best players that can directionally point you down that path, and then the chips fall where they fall. Get back to reality....

i was responding to the guy who said championships do not matter and would rather make the playoffs every year...

what you just said is what i have said this entire time, drafter the best players...

In comment 14036303 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

but are in the playoffs every year? that is moronic

Seriously? Now you are just being argumentative...

In comment 14036308 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

In comment 14036292 nygiants16 said: Quote: isnt the point to win championships? not just make the playoffs? if you win 1 superbowl with barkley and never make the playoffs again, i would take that over playoffs every year and never winninh with darnold... making the playoffs is great but if you do not win a championship what is the point? You are lost in the weeds. Nobody evaluating talent can see so sharply into the future whether a draftable player is the difference between just getting to a superbowl and winning one. You pick the best players that can directionally point you down that path, and then the chips fall where they fall. Get back to reality....

what i have been saying this entire time

In comment 14036313 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

In comment 14036303 nygiants16 said: Quote: but are in the playoffs every year? that is moronic Seriously? Now you are just being argumentative...

are you just reading my comment rather than what i am commenting at?

the guy just said he would rather be in the playoffs than win championships...that is what my comment was directed at

In comment 14036099 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036097 nygiants16 said: Quote: that if barkley is a hall of famer and darnold is a hall of famer, giants made a bad pick, i think that is bs... you draft a hall of famer no matter the position it is a good pick dont buy

In comment 14036318 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

In comment 14036099 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 14036097 nygiants16 said: Quote: that if barkley is a hall of famer and darnold is a hall of famer, giants made a bad pick, i think that is bs... you draft a hall of famer no matter the position it is a good pick dont buy

how is it a flawed notion i literally said the same thing you just did...

you draft the best player you can..

you just said you draft the best player you can and let the chips fall, exactly what my argument was...

in competing for championships

In comment 14036326 Jimmy Googs said:

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in competing for championships

ok we will see how it plays out..

In comment 14036306 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036302 joeinpa said: Quote: To be dismissing the value of a good quarterback It s a quarterback league, there is no other position close to it s importance you can absolutely win with a good qb and a great team opposed to a great qb and good team... having the great qb is not a prerequisite to winning

And we won the sb with jacobs and bradshaw

Name me the last team to win a ring with a hof rb

In comment 14036329 NYSports1 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036306 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 14036302 joeinpa said: Quote: To be dismissing the value of a good quarterback It s a quarterback league, there is no other position close to it s importance you can absolutely win with a good qb and a great team opposed to a great qb and good team... having the great qb is not a prerequisite to winning And we won the sb with jacobs and bradshaw Name me the last team to win a ring with a hof rb

that is not my point, and i even sakd drafting barkley by himself doea not win a superbowl, just like drafting darnold by himself does not win a superbowl....

it is about team will always be about team...

if darnold becomes a hall of fame qb it doesnt mean the jets are going to win, that has been my point this entire time...

The Giants GM in 2018 doesn’t believe there is different positional value but is paying a good LT like an all pro and gave 6 million dollars to the corpse of a RB who he says hasn’t lost anything and then spent the #2 pick in the draft on another RB in a draft with 5 1st round QBs and his QB is 37 years old. Sounds like the Giants are in great hands

In comment 14036329 NYSports1 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036306 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 14036302 joeinpa said: Quote: To be dismissing the value of a good quarterback It s a quarterback league, there is no other position close to it s importance you can absolutely win with a good qb and a great team opposed to a great qb and good team... having the great qb is not a prerequisite to winning And we won the sb with jacobs and bradshaw Name me the last team to win a ring with a hof rb

and you just said championships do not mattet, so shouldnt we just look at playoff teams?

since all you care about is making the playoffs

In comment 14036258 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036254 UberAlias said: Quote: Carrying them on his shoulders. but that is my point he could only take them so far, it takes a team to win a championship not just a great qb..

That goes without saying. It’s a team sport.

Steelers (Jerome Bettis 2006)
Raiders (Marcus Allen 1984)
Broncos (Terrell Davis 1998, MVP)
Rams (Marshall Faulk 1999)
Cowboys (Emmitt Smith 1992,1993,1996)

In comment 14036271 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036267 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: In comment 14036258 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 14036254 UberAlias said: Quote: Carrying them on his shoulders. but that is my point he could only take them so far, it takes a team to win a championship not just a great qb.. Yes, but you're getting caught up the nuance of competing for championships vs. winning them. Elway absolutely brought the value that Denver consistently competed for them almost every year. The improved running game got them over the hump in winning the last game a couple of times. but again it proves my point, having the hall of fame qb does not guarantee you anything

There is nothing you can do with a single draft pick that will guarantee a championship.

In comment 14036329 NYSports1 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036306 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 14036302 joeinpa said: Quote: To be dismissing the value of a good quarterback It s a quarterback league, there is no other position close to it s importance you can absolutely win with a good qb and a great team opposed to a great qb and good team... having the great qb is not a prerequisite to winning And we won the sb with jacobs and bradshaw Name me the last team to win a ring with a hof rb

That would be the Greatest show on turf Rams I think 🤔

the giants felt saquon qould be the better player so they took him...

the pick alone is not going to carry the team so they went with the best player...

now it is up to gettleman and shurmur to build the best team...

no matter who they drafted it would still come down to who is around them...

plenty of just good qbs have wom championships opposed to hall of fame qbs...

comparing this draft to the one that produced Elway and Sanders. Think we would have taken Elway over Sanders as well. Moot argument until somebody in this draft proves they belong anywhere near that company. QB is the more valuable position if both work out but this was a judgement call on their worth and our needs now, by our braintrust.

and barkley becomes a good but nothing special running back then it was a horrible pick...

In comment 14036373 JohnF said:

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Steelers (Jerome Bettis 2006) Raiders (Marcus Allen 1984) Broncos (Terrell Davis 1998, MVP) Rams (Marshall Faulk 1999) Cowboys (Emmitt Smith 1992,1993,1996)

And fairly speaking 39/52 Super Bowl winners will be Hall of Famers. And that 13 non HOFers includes Plunket twice, Theisman, and Simms who were pretty good players. Hoss and Foles were late season replacements for teams well on their way to contention.

In comment 14036382 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

the giants felt saquon qould be the better player so they took him... the pick alone is not going to carry the team so they went with the best player... now it is up to gettleman and shurmur to build the best team... no matter who they drafted it would still come down to who is around them... plenty of just good qbs have wom championships opposed to hall of fame qbs...

Yes, all this is true.

But here is the thing. Teams who have uncertainty for the future of the QB position usually jump at the opportunity to take one when drafting this high, as long as there is a franchise caliber QB available. The top player drafted is usually a QB, not necessarily the best player regardless of position. The reason for that is because teams understand how important that position is, how hard good QBs are to get, and how difficult it is to win without one. This is why the statement that DG doesn't factor position in is quite honestly head scratching, and actually hard to believe.

The Giants clearly had the need. There were obviously viable prospects considering a number were drafted in the first round including Darnold with the next pick, who was seen by many as the top QB in the draft, and the highest on the Giants board. So obviously they either did not think any of the QBs were worthy, or they just loved Barkley too much. Either way, it was a controversial pick. No one would have accused them of reaching for a QB had they taken Darnold. So this will be debated for a long time.

My personal opinion is and has been that Darnold is the real deal. He is the only player I would have taken over Barkely. I think it was a gift that he fell to them and believe it was a mistake passing up on that gift. Long way to go before anything is settled. What Darnold showed last night is exactly what his potential is, whether that happens or not. But seeing him show all of that, even if only in the preseason, with so little camp time, and also seeing Webb look like total crap in the same week despite two years in camp, is not at all inspiring confidence that my take is wrong. No need for hyperbole though --I am not lacking perspective that this is just a small initial test. So we have to see what happens from here.

Welcome to the BBI Flagellant Society (BFS) meeting! To convene every Sunday of the fall.



The topic of today and every day (till finis mundi) is why the Giants did not take a QuarterBack in the 2018 draft.

Sinners will provide their own whips, clothing, health insurance, etc. This will continue till the careers of Mr. Rosen, Mr. Darnold, and Mr. Allen are complete. Let the Lamentations comence!

at this point if the Giants were correct or not regarding the top QB's in the draft. It could take up to 3 years to see how this shakes out.

I think most BBIers can agree the Giants are not stupid. If they had a QB there that they ranked a "can't miss", he'd have been the pick.

There is only 1 possible reason that the Giants did not go QB with the 2nd pick in the draft. Let's just relax a while and see if they were right or wrong.

In comment 14036411 UberAlias said:

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In comment 14036382 nygiants16 said: Quote: the giants felt saquon qould be the better player so they took him... the pick alone is not going to carry the team so they went with the best player... now it is up to gettleman and shurmur to build the best team... no matter who they drafted it would still come down to who is around them... plenty of just good qbs have wom championships opposed to hall of fame qbs... Yes, all this is true. But here is the thing. Teams who have uncertainty for the future of the QB position usually jump at the opportunity to take one when drafting this high, as long as there is a franchise caliber QB available. The top player drafted is usually a QB, not necessarily the best player regardless of position. The reason for that is because teams understand how important that position is, how hard good QBs are to get, and how difficult it is to win without one. This is why the statement that DG doesn't factor position in is quite honestly head scratching, and actually hard to believe. The Giants clearly had the need. There were obviously viable prospects considering a number were drafted in the first round including Darnold with the next pick, who was seen by many as the top QB in the draft, and the highest on the Giants board. So obviously they either did not think any of the QBs were worthy, or they just loved Barkley too much. Either way, it was a controversial pick. No one would have accused them of reaching for a QB had they taken Darnold. So this will be debated for a long time. My personal opinion is and has been that Darnold is the real deal. He is the only player I would have taken over Barkely. I think it was a gift that he fell to them and believe it was a mistake passing up on that gift. Long way to go before anything is settled. What Darnold showed last night is exactly what his potential is, whether that happens or not. But seeing him show all of that, even if only in the preseason, with so little camp time, and also seeing Webb look like total crap in the same week despite two years in camp, is not at all inspiring confidence that my take is wrong. No need for hyperbole though --I am not lacking perspective that this is just a small initial test. So we have to see what happens from here.

What gets me is the idea that if Darnold becomes good we fucked up. What is Barkley becomes an all time great and Darnold becomes a good, not great QB? There are QBs like that in most drafts. 2018 isn't the last draft ever. We'll likely have a better opportunity to draft a QB of Darnold's talent than an RB of Barkley's talent in the coming years. How many first overall QBs for example have become worth their draft spot? Peyton, Elway, Aikman, and Eli come to mind (not putting Newton on this list yet). Lots of great QBs who have been had late in the first and later. Why are people being so myopic like the Giants will never have a chance to draft a franchise QB ever again.

But for me personally, I think Rosen could be good, but I think Darnold will be elite. I think he will be better than guys like Matt Ryan or Stafford. I like Darnold more than any QB since Luck.

In comment 14036189 UberAlias said:

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In comment 14036185 cokeduplt said: Quote: In comment 14036167 UberAlias said: Quote: You do realize that Eli Manning, the QB the team is all in on, has led the league in INTs or tied 3 times and is top 10 all times among QBs in fumbles and most among active QBs, including 2 nd in the NFL in 2007 when he won the SB, right? But hey, who needs facts. So that makes drafting a turnover machine to be the heir apparent is a good idea? Seriuosly? Um, it means you can’t look at one stat and expect it to tell the whole story. This would seem to be obvious.

I agree that ideally a franchise QB would have been nice, but drafting a turnover machine at #2 overall is a poor decision.

Eli has nothing to do with it.

You previously stated that you didn't understand what Darnold's detractors were seeing; I gave you a visual. There were some huge red blinking flags with Darnold.

In comment 14036470 UberAlias said:

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But for me personally, I think Rosen could be good, but I think Darnold will be elite. I think he will be better than guys like Matt Ryan or Stafford. I like Darnold more than any QB since Luck.

I mean if you legit think that then yeah we made a mistake if you're right. It's possible and in fact probably that the Giants didn't think that.

on a conceptual level. I also admit I couldn't speak much to scouting, the most important aspect most of us don't address or just know little about. So in theory yes, we should lean to QB. But based on scouting we seemed to draft the BPA if not best in draft

Also few mention THIS RB's huge value in the pass game. Iirc the last time our O was good was when we had Vereen - mediocre overall but when healthy a top pass catcher for us. Meaning any QB / pass offense gets a big boost too. Changes the whole convo

There's good arguments on both sides, but IMO more than one way to make it happen. If we had a solid team we could do well with an avg QB and possibly go all in on an FA or draft trade if we're 'a QB away' down the road. So I'm not sure why it HAS to be QB just because of draft position, especially given the top player we got

In comment 14036479 BestFeature said:

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In comment 14036470 UberAlias said: Quote: But for me personally, I think Rosen could be good, but I think Darnold will be elite. I think he will be better than guys like Matt Ryan or Stafford. I like Darnold more than any QB since Luck. I mean if you legit think that then yeah we made a mistake if you're right. It's possible and in fact probably that the Giants didn't think that.

It had better be the Giants absolutely didn't think that...

In comment 14036287 NYSports1 said:

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In comment 14036250 nygiants16 said: Quote: but didnt win until the end of his career when he had a great running back So dumb....Eli and Peyton have the same amount of SB wins and Eli is not in the same planet as Peyton. Each year the fans of the Colts and Broncos knew they were going to be great on offense and make the playoffs. With Eli we have some blind fait in the last 5 years and most times fans here predict 6-10 records. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.....A true long term franchise hof qb does not miss the playoffs as much as Eli and also gives fans the belief that eve if no sb they will be a good team making the playoffs With Eli the last few years we are hoping we can score more than 20

Go see how many times Drew Breed made the playoffs since their SB win.

Autocorrect

In comment 14036470 UberAlias said:

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But for me personally, I think Rosen could be good, but I think Darnold will be elite. I think he will be better than guys like Matt Ryan or Stafford. I like Darnold more than any QB since Luck.

No offense but I’ll take the judgment of dg and his staff over some guy behind a keyboard. Not saying he’s right and your wrong or your right and he’s wrong

In comment 14036287 NYSports1 said:

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In comment 14036250 nygiants16 said: Quote: but didnt win until the end of his career when he had a great running back So dumb....Eli and Peyton have the same amount of SB wins and Eli is not in the same planet as Peyton. Each year the fans of the Colts and Broncos knew they were going to be great on offense and make the playoffs. With Eli we have some blind fait in the last 5 years and most times fans here predict 6-10 records. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.....A true long term franchise hof qb does not miss the playoffs as much as Eli and also gives fans the belief that eve if no sb they will be a good team making the playoffs With Eli the last few years we are hoping we can score more than 20

And most franchise qb’s have a gm that invests in a line and run game to help him. We just happened to have that one buffoon who didn’t. In like 10 minutes since being here dg has immensely improved those areas

had the most talent available.

The QB vs RB debate is silly for many reasons. First and foremost the draft is over. It was a nice debate before the draft. But, for me, the draft is over and I’m only interested in the joy of watching a player I hope ends up being the greatest RB in Giants history.

Secondly, this is a team sport. Would Montana have been as heralded as he was if he had been drafted by Cleveland? Would Jerry Rice have been as good as he was without Montana? If Eli has his best year this year, how much will be because of Barkley, Beckham, Engram, and a new OL? My point being, Barkley is going to make the Giants QBs for the next decade better than they would otherwise be. The whole debate is just a dumb one.

In comment 14036255 UberAlias said:

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It was a great running game, not just the back. Player after player had success in that backfield, not just Davis.

To be fair, none of them had quite the same level of production as Davis.

In comment 14036681 eli4life said:

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In comment 14036470 UberAlias said: Quote: But for me personally, I think Rosen could be good, but I think Darnold will be elite. I think he will be better than guys like Matt Ryan or Stafford. I like Darnold more than any QB since Luck. No offense but I’ll take the judgment of dg and his staff over some guy behind a keyboard. Not saying he’s right and your wrong or your right and he’s wrong

That's a head scratcher. For starters, I never asked you to, actually. More so, it's a message board. If aren't allowed to share opinions, why the hell would we be here?

In comment 14036116 markky said:

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Brett Favre (or insert Steve Young or Troy Aikman, etc.). definitely the QB. it's not even close. that said, I'm super excited about having SB on the team.

A better question is, who would you rather draft, Barry Sanders or Steve Walsh? Because Walsh was the first QB chosen after Sanders was.

Favee was drafted in the second round, and then acquired by a trade.

He doesn't exactly prove you need to spend a top 5 pick when a QB is available to get a QB of franchise caliber.

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