It's amazing how expensive it has become. My twins are 14, and my plan was always to pay as much of their college costs as possible (my parents did it for me any my brothers). I think they will probably target UVA and William and Mary, but we'll see. It's incredible to me that even state schools are quite expensive now. I think I will be able to cover 2.5 years each by the time they are 18 even though I have been saving in 529 accounts since they were about 4 months old. I think it really is much tougher for young people these days compared to when I went to college in the 1980s.
At least in Virginia, those plans have changed dramatically (and not in a good way). My friend has a kid in a Virginia state school and he paid around $20K for prepaid tuition years ago. Those plans now cost between $8,000 and $9,000 per semester and don't include room and board. I looked into it last year and didn't see any advantage over just continuing to save in a regular age-based 529.
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(or any state) pre-paid programs.
At least in Virginia, those plans have changed dramatically (and not in a good way). My friend has a kid in a Virginia state school and he paid around $20K for prepaid tuition years ago. Those plans now cost between $8,000 and $9,000 per semester and don't include room and board. I looked into it last year and didn't see any advantage over just continuing to save in a regular age-based 529.
There are pre-paid dorm programs, too. You are right, the normal program is tuition only.
Tuitions do rise and they are good at predicting costs. My two oldest cost me $11k each for the program. Actual tuition would have been over double that. #3 would be triple what I kicked in to the program.
529s are good programs, difference is that pre-paids pay the tuition no matter the cost (FL jacked tuition 15% per year while #2 was at college), with a 529s you still pay full boat for tuition. So if you expect to pay $15k per year for tuition and the universities jack the costs to $20k you still owe the extra $5k per year, pre-paid you would not need to make up the difference.
The 529 is still a very good program.
Additionally, Division III schools cannot give sports scholarships.
Division II can give partial scholarships, but less than DI.
Someone mentioned hockey.
There are 60 D1 men's college hockey programs in USA. No DII in Men's hockey.
18 scholarships each, that's 1080 scholarship players (not by year, but total) in hockey.
IOW, the odds are so astronomical that parents who have these expectations are very unrealistic and put way too much pressure on their kids. I say this as a youth hockey coach who deals with parents who definitely have this unrealistic goal.
the 1080 number doesn't even consider the Canadian (or other non-American) kids who come to play hockey in the US.
I'd guess 20 - 25% at least of college hockey players in D1 are not American. That leaves around 810 total available scholarships, and there are 550,000 male youth hockey players, and probably 35,000 at the high school level. So like 2%.
Now, I'm not naive enough (none of us probably is) to believe Ivy League or D-III schools don't come up with ways around the no scholarship loophole, and they find ways to get the players they want, but the point is sports scholarships are not something that should be planned on, but something that should be a dream.
Yes, juniors increases your chances of playing NCAA, but again, odds are minuscule and that shouldn't be anyone's plan.
His daughter might be the best youth hockey player I've seen (female). she was phenomenal and is now playing D-III.
the leading scorer of all time for Wayland, MA high school goes to Bentley and plays Club hockey.
it's a pipe dream, for almost any sport.
Hockey has the highest odds, followed by lacrosse, football, swimming and water polo (probably a smaller pool no pun intended) to play D1
volleyball, basketball, and wrestling are the lowest odds for a US high school player to play D1.
Not all kids are meant to be scholars. Forcing them to be one could have really bad reprocussions. Support and nurture the things your kids are good at and if that’s sports so be it.
I hated school, no amount of investment from my parents into academics would have worked. I ended up doing just fine because they realized they should just let me be me.
Additionally, Division III schools cannot give sports scholarships.
Division II can give partial scholarships, but less than DI.
Someone mentioned hockey.
There are 60 D1 men's college hockey programs in USA. No DII in Men's hockey.
18 scholarships each, that's 1080 scholarship players (not by year, but total) in hockey.
IOW, the odds are so astronomical that parents who have these expectations are very unrealistic and put way too much pressure on their kids. I say this as a youth hockey coach who deals with parents who definitely have this unrealistic goal.
the 1080 number doesn't even consider the Canadian (or other non-American) kids who come to play hockey in the US.
I'd guess 20 - 25% at least of college hockey players in D1 are not American. That leaves around 810 total available scholarships, and there are 550,000 male youth hockey players, and probably 35,000 at the high school level. So like 2%.
Now, I'm not naive enough (none of us probably is) to believe Ivy League or D-III schools don't come up with ways around the no scholarship loophole, and they find ways to get the players they want, but the point is sports scholarships are not something that should be planned on, but something that should be a dream.
From my experience, the Ivy League & top D-III schools coaches recruit by promising help with admission provided perspective student commits to them. Obviously, also need to be in range academically. For D-III, it may depend on the conference. For example, NESCAC strongly monitors. OTOH, D-III school (different conference) coach did call asking if my son would reconsider acceptance if aid package was increased. This was my son's safety school so it's possible his academics were strong enough to allow for additional wiggle room.
I do agree with your overall point, banking on an athletic scholarship is a really poor bet.
The cherry on top is that Stanford also announced it was expanding financial aid. The university said that no parents with an annual income and typical assets of less than $125,000 will have to pay a single cent toward tuition. The threshold for this aid was previously $100,000.
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The cherry on top is that Stanford also announced it was expanding financial aid. The university said that no parents with an annual income and typical assets of less than $125,000 will have to pay a single cent toward tuition. The threshold for this aid was previously $100,000.
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Annual income and assets less than $125k is pretty low. A house alone pretty much reaches that level.
But still nice for them to help. Probably some IRS prodding.
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In comment 14036898 section125 said:
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(or any state) pre-paid programs.
At least in Virginia, those plans have changed dramatically (and not in a good way). My friend has a kid in a Virginia state school and he paid around $20K for prepaid tuition years ago. Those plans now cost between $8,000 and $9,000 per semester and don't include room and board. I looked into it last year and didn't see any advantage over just continuing to save in a regular age-based 529.
There are pre-paid dorm programs, too. You are right, the normal program is tuition only.
Tuitions do rise and they are good at predicting costs. My two oldest cost me $11k each for the program. Actual tuition would have been over double that. #3 would be triple what I kicked in to the program.
529s are good programs, difference is that pre-paids pay the tuition no matter the cost (FL jacked tuition 15% per year while #2 was at college), with a 529s you still pay full boat for tuition. So if you expect to pay $15k per year for tuition and the universities jack the costs to $20k you still owe the extra $5k per year, pre-paid you would not need to make up the difference.
The 529 is still a very good program.
That's what I was trying to explain earlier. $11K is fantastic. In Virginia, the plan that you bought would currently cost about $72,000. In Virginia, the pre-paid costs have increased dramatically in recent years. Years ago, it was a great bargain.
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But I’ll add: there’s no need to spend $250K+ for that experience. You definitely should be taking profit/loss into account when considering the cost of the particular school.
Agree... and I also question the "education" the kids get. They study, they are given projects to complete. They go through an educational obstacle course and in many instances come out on the other side with an education that they could have easily learned on the internet for free.
This. At this point colleges are just firewalls for white collar jobs. You pay a huge, huge tax (because that's what student loans are now), go into debt, and you might qualify ... might ... for an entry level job where you'll have to be trained anyway. Unless you have connections of course.
There's going to come a point where this system is going to collapse. Why go $150,000 in debt (not counting interest) for a job that pays $35,000 a year?
No break on tuition and ended up picking another school that was less expensive, she loves it and is having a great experience.
Should have her Master Degree in 4.5 years - Public Health.
No break on tuition and ended up picking another school that was less expensive, she loves it and is having a great experience.
Should have her Master Degree in 4.5 years - Public Health.
‘Long the shores of old Cayuga
There’s an awful smell...
Some say it’s Cayuga’s waters
Others say...Cornell
they do give financial aid based on income, but no scholarships.
My wife, for her kids, immediately started paying for the Texas Tomorrow fund, so tuition for both her daughters cost zero..
As an aside, I told my son that he was going to a Florida community college which costs very little compared to the 4 year schools. Then, after 2 years he could go to a 4 year school for his final 2 years. That’s what he did. Santa Fe Community college in Florida for his first two years and then he transferred to and graduated from the University of Florida. I saved a ton of money doing the community college and then the 4 year route
they do give financial aid based on income, but no scholarships.
But they say a lot of things. And yet, they somehow seem to make it happen for a player student that they really want.
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for athletics or academics.
they do give financial aid based on income, but no scholarships.
So they say...
But they say a lot of things. And yet, they somehow seem to make it happen for a player student that they really want.
Of course, I 100% agree and I said as much in prior posts, and a lot of this I know first hand, they'll find grants or better financial packages to get you there, but it's absolutely different still from a run of the mill division 1 program that gives scholarships.
We were very lucky in our house in that of 3 kids one had a full athletic ride, one went to a service academy and the third went to a state school. So we only paid for one and it was an in-state rate. Still, the other two came at a cost and you have to decide if it’s worth it. There’s a lot of sacrifices to be made to be a D-1 scholarship athlete. You give up a lot of things you might want out of growing up in college and if you burn out, your in a weird place if you don’t want to all of the sudden start paying for yourself. And, the service academy is at least 5 years afterward. Both experiences are both inexpensive and costly.
it's sort of a "love of the game" mode.
Now, I did get perks like some awesome work study assignments, student athlete lounge and tutoring, and nutrition enhancement (meals), but the school/sports balance really IMO isn't different. I also got some grants I maybe wouldn't have gotten if I didn't play sports. So I understand the sports commitment.
I was curious, so I looked it up. It looks like Florida still has a very reasonable plan. $29K is the lump sum. If it cost $58K for my two kids in my state, I would do it today, but it would cost me $144K here.
Sometimes people say things they think are true, like in this case, but facts show them they are talking out of their ass.
Acceptance rate:
Boston College: 31% on 28,454 applicants
Northeastern: 27% on 54,209 applicants
Average SAT Score:
Boston College: 1320 - 1490
Northeastern: 1370 - 1520
Now, you tell me which is harder to get in to?
my kids are in the Boston area and we're looking at schools, so unlike you I am not making shit up.
Source Princeton Review, link for Northeastern below.
And I was as surprised as others, but facts are facts.
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Agree, and I said as much. when I was in high school NU was everyone's safety school, their tri-mester format and co-op program were considered gimmicks for them to make more money, but a funny thing happened along the way and people found that co-op program prepared NU students far more for the real world and the institution changed a lot of their admission policies.
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The cherry on top is that Stanford also announced it was expanding financial aid. The university said that no parents with an annual income and typical assets of less than $125,000 will have to pay a single cent toward tuition. The threshold for this aid was previously $100,000.
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Annual income and assets less than $125k is pretty low. A house alone pretty much reaches that level.
But still nice for them to help. Probably some IRS prodding.
The house value would be net of the mortgage so it's not as low as it looks.
Actually the prodding came from Chuck Grassley in the Senate. Back in 2006-2007 he had hearings to consider whether to apply the private foundation rules, which require the expenditure of 5% of the endowment as calculated each year for current expenses or pay a penalty tax, to colleges and universities. The Ivies, Stanford and other schools with large endowments increased their financial aid packages significantly to try to head him off, but the Great Recession did it instead.
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Go back to the 70's and the 25-75 was roughly 1100-1300 and the place was considered a factory.
Agree, and I said as much. when I was in high school NU was everyone's safety school, their tri-mester format and co-op program were considered gimmicks for them to make more money, but a funny thing happened along the way and people found that co-op program prepared NU students far more for the real world and the institution changed a lot of their admission policies.
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In comment 14037657 njm said:
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Go back to the 70's and the 25-75 was roughly 1100-1300 and the place was considered a factory.
Agree, and I said as much. when I was in high school NU was everyone's safety school, their tri-mester format and co-op program were considered gimmicks for them to make more money, but a funny thing happened along the way and people found that co-op program prepared NU students far more for the real world and the institution changed a lot of their admission policies.
Not for nothing, but in our visits I paid most attention to the dining hall (glutton that I am). For my money, NU had the best food of the three Boston colleges.
well I expand Boston to 5 schools because I add MIT and Harvard. LOL, just kidding, but good feedback, though both my twins are girls and rarely eat much at home so I'm pretty sure the dining hall isn't going to be their tie breaker. Boys, maybe.
I see them as the type of students who are letting their male friends use their meal cards at the end of every semester.
Ranking the best value colleges.
the criteria are things like price without grants, price with grants, % who get grants that need $$, average debt when you graduate and early career salary.
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the fact is 80% of the increase of cost in Public Universities is directly because States have cut their funding.
Since 1980 State Governments have slashed their support for STATE Public Universities. - the only place that Universities can make up this retreat of funding is through Tuition increases.
another fun fact- the just signed US Military budget increased funding $70 billion dollars this year-
that is the exact cost of making all Public Universities in US free for Students.
the fact is 80% of the increase of cost in Public Universities is directly because States have cut their funding.
Since 1980 State Governments have slashed their support for STATE Public Universities. - the only place that Universities can make up this retreat of funding is through Tuition increases.
another fun fact- the just signed US Military budget increased funding $70 billion dollars this year-
that is the exact cost of making all Public Universities in US free for Students.
And how much has the rising cost of pensions and gold plated health insurance for state & local employees ($33,000 per year for some NJ municipal workers) affected their ability to fund state universities?
So for the majority of the 17% (which I'd guess a significant amount of the college going population comes from), nothing changes. No free education.
and no idea why the increase in defense spending means anything relative to education unless you're a socialist and believe the world is all about lollipops and rainbows.
And the notion that you could suddenly make colleges "free" and have no significant impact on the decisions both to attend college and to keep attending college is nonsense.
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That's a wild list, even considering value. Northwestern (86), Cornell (92), Hopkins (105), Emory (128), Carnegie Mellon (155), NYU (198) seem to be obviously misplaced.
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Value for your money is a major data point in this ranking, so it shakes up the top schools a bit. Best Colleges - ( New Window )
That's a wild list, even considering value. Northwestern (86), Cornell (92), Hopkins (105), Emory (128), Carnegie Mellon (155), NYU (198) seem to be obviously misplaced.
Looks like after financial aid is factored in NYU is the most expensive by at least $5,000. per year. That would certainly impact a best college for the money rating.