NFT: Cost of college is really out of control

im not an economist, but doesn't it have something to do with government loans that can't be defaulted?

either way, something should be done. 60k+ per year is unreasonable.

To cover for 4 years of tuition and room?

and the quality of the education they get has plummeted. Do they come out of college now dumber or smarter than when the went in?

Personally, I hoping for renaissance in vocational training. I've told my kids to strongly consider it as I've seen more start-up businesses in my area with young people in the 20s with technical backgrounds.

My Firend just graduated with an ONLINE degree for two seasons to get the masters and it was 68,000 for that

In comment 14036150 spike said:

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To cover for 4 years of tuition and room?

Depends on where you go. A good state school is generally under 100K in state. You could save even more by spending the first 2 years at a community college. On the other end, some top private universities can be north of $250K

In comment 14036150 spike said:

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To cover for 4 years of tuition and room?

Currently about $35K per year at the two schools I mentioned. I attended SUNY Geneseo as an in- state resident. I was curious about that one too. That looks like it's about $23000 (in state).

In comment 14036150 spike said:

Quote:

To cover for 4 years of tuition and room?

my twins are entering their junior year in HS. I agree with both Rick5 and Eric (though I don't think Eric's point is new, I think that was always the case).

Private colleges on average will cost you 280k for 4 years room and board for the better schools. You can get as low as 150k for the lesser schools.

In state resident for state schools can be 100k, but ironically it is now harder for in-state students to get into their state schools, because the schools can charge more for out of state students. they have lower standards for them. This is at least true in New England for all the state schools. Uconn is very difficult to get into for CT students (for example). When I was growing up it was easy.

Out of state resident at a state school is more like 150k for the better schools. And the differentiation is something like in MA you have Umass which is the biggest state school, but there are schools like Framingham state, Bridewater state, etc. that are not very good, so Framingham state may be affordable but Umass is the numbers I'm quoting.

Education costs are out of control and it's a massive ripoff.

Around me the vo-ed schools (for high school) are on fire, but the unforeseen side of it is most of the students are going to college. Caught the school organizers by surprise. People felt the education was better, so kids began flocking to them, and now the one my kids could choose has an 80+% college attendance rate.

I was pushing one of my kids to join the military to help with the cost of college (and I think it's a good idea for this child), but I doubt that's going to happen.

The tuition cost is one reason I think a lot of young adults and even older adults are doing certifications vs. diplomas. The cost is more reasonable and you can get trained in the exact skill you need or want at the time.

I�m still going to advise my boys to go to college or vocational school, but encourage the two year community college path for cost reasons.

School.

Make 85k a year with your trade... make 110k a year with your bachelors (lol if your lucky)

So 25k a year extra per year if you spend 250k on that university in pay checks, so you�d have to work 11 years in your career to break even with the Trade schooo person and that�s not counting the 2-4 years of extra time they already have in their career before the college student even try�s to find a job..

College is definitely a massive ripoff unless your going for something you know will produce mass amounts of money in a short period of time to pay off the debts you obtained to get that degree and job.

An out-of-state school for us.

Costing us 30K for my son to go to Iowa State which is an in-state school

Not from

My daughter just started her 10 month fellowship there a week ago

It's a disgrace.

...for Binghamton U.

One already nailed a fat scholarship to Rochester U, but not nearly enough to cover the insane annual tuition/board, etc...

to access, half at 25 and half 30. Whatever I do save won�t even put a dent in tuition if it stays this way. I really see no point. Would rather let that money appreciate an extra 8 and 13 years and set her up to buy a home. I don�t even think college will be necessary for many non specialized jobs in the near future as well - it�s already happening.

too, and the cost was about $20K per year (give or take). Definitely equal the education/job getting ability of a $50K private school

from UConn between 2004-07 - total cost was about $45k tuition, room + board. 11 years after graduating in state tuition room and board is about $23k in state, $45k out of state.

At this rate it will be over $40k per year in state for kids who will attend 15 years from now. That�s insanity.

around it. Certain parties want free education. While that sounds great the reality is that is just going to drive uo costs for those that don't qualify for going to college for free.

This is the way I look at it. I am an educator. When people have nothing invested in their education it just becomes a joke for a lpt of people. Not all people but a lot. In middle school and high school so many classes become watered down in terms of what you can teach because actually learning really comes last. Something like managing behavior and having great classroom management has to occur first.

Now, hopefully when these kids are a little older you don't have basic problems like behavior but I believe there will be other issues. Lets say a college prides itself on graduation rate. If a good chunk of people are getting into college for free I can see a good portion of those students not taking it as seriously as they should. I can see colleges adjusting their standards like high schools have just to get people to graduate.

In high school we had No Child Left Behind. Again, in theory a great idea but in reality it doesn't work. If you look at our Regents exams a student needs about a 35 percent on that exam to pass because the curve makes that grade a 65. All we really have done is lower standards to make the numbers look better. And as an educator the worst thing you can do for anybody is lower expectations. The number one thing proven to get the best results out of students regardless of money or any program is to set high expectations. I see all of this going in the opposite direction.

but it absolutely shouldn�t be this expensive, and shouldn�t be increasing yearly at abhorrent rates.

Why should anyone making a modest living set aside any money for college when the investment rates are a fraction of the rises in costs?

College stopped being widely affordable in the early 2000s for a family of 4. Its now so far out of control that it�s crippling for most families just to save a couple hundred a month. What�s the point?

It was shocking how truly disconnected the Colleges are from economic reality. In our discussions with the Finance Dept, they were clueless about the real world. Every tenured professor gets at least a 5% raise every year, every assistant prof can count on 3%, and all the aides get a nice bump too.

My Daughter started her College in Sept 2008, just as the Lehman shit was hitting the fan. On the campus, you'd think it was still 1999 the way they threw money around.

And forget about any Tuition Aid packages. Unless you're living in a cardboard box under a bridge....you're making too much money for any serious free aid. They will refer you to the many for profit Loan Arrangers and their exorbitant interest rates.

We were lucky, I started saving for her College the year she was born so we had a big part of it covered. But I paid for the rest of it out of Cash Flow rather than get tangled up with the shyster Loans. Daughter also helped us by graduating a semester early in January -- saved us about $20K. She got a good job months before her classmates got out in May....and her employer paid for her MBA.

The government has Billions for a Bogus Wall, but nothing left for college funding.

In comment 14036191 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

but it absolutely shouldn�t be this expensive, and shouldn�t be increasing yearly at abhorrent rates. Why should anyone making a modest living set aside any money for college when the investment rates are a fraction of the rises in costs? College stopped being widely affordable in the early 2000s for a family of 4. Its now so far out of control that it�s crippling for most families just to save a couple hundred a month. What�s the point?

100%. I had a college by me go bankrupt. I can see this happening more and more in the future. As the poster above me said, they seem cut off from reality and costs just keep going up so they just extend it to the students. I agree with Eric. Vocational school is a much better option for most people now. I tell my stidents all the time that they have to truly want to go to college. If they don't truly want to then they should be looking at trades. The people going to vocational schools are doing very well for themselves without the crazy debt. I know lawyers that are struggling because the debt has taken over their lives. It is crazy.

as online credentials get better, many schools will start closing their facilities in the near future. This just isn�t sustainable.

I�m in the construction industry and once the baby boomers are done, this country is going to be paying out the ass for trade labor - we already are. I know it isn�t sexy, by my electrocution neighbor makes almost as much as my wife and I combined. No college necessary and those jobs will be in abundance.

Quote:

The government has Billions for a Bogus Wall, but nothing left for college funding.

just leave it to the fact education is expensive and the student loan practices are abhorrent. Why would you bring the Federal government into it?

when you make comments like this you ask for retaliation.

Education costs are not set by the federal government. They're set at the state level. Do you think maybe if states like CA, NY, MA, NJ, etc. didn't spend so much (they spend hundreds of millions if not billions) on illegal immigrants and being sanctuary "states" that they could use they money they spend on illegal immigrants to offset education costs for citizens?

Maybe a wall if it limits illegal immigration would in fact help free up money for education, but college costs have NOT escalated b/c of the Federal government so asking the Federal government to accommodate for state greed or whatever policies forced them inflate education costs seems unjust and scapegoating.

My two are out and paid for, thank God so you guys have my sympathy and understanding. To the extent it is a help:

- be smart consumers because there are lot of family resources at stake. Don't just look at the facilities. Ask questions about the intern office, the placement office and the alumni network. What is the success rate? what connections do they have to what employers and industries? where are the alumni located and in what fields? If your kid has interest in a particular field, what is the shcools reputation in that field? What is the employment rate for each field for graduates of the university. (and yes, they have those numbers). Guide your kid. They will start, if they haven't been getting it already, literature from schools recruiting students. Students are a big business, and you don't want your kid making choices to spend tens of thousands of family dollars without guidance. There will be battles, the battles will not be pleasant and you will have to fight them.

- Tell your kid what you are willing to pay for and what you won't.

- if your kid is interested in a higher education-vocational type degree: accounting, nursing, public relations, engineering etc, the state schools will often be better choices than the private colleges

- small, private liberal arts colleges will offer the best financial aid packages, but they have to. Liberal arts, in the sense that many of us knew them from college years have been destroyed, the graduates they turn out have a tough time finding employment and these schools are having a tough time competing for students. Unless the school offers, nursing (Salve Regina in Newport, RI is very well known for its nursing program), engineering, accounting or something similar, what seems to be a bargain may not be

- unless your kid has a compelling story or attended a private feeder high school, was a star high school athlete, is from outside the Northeast or is a legacy, do not bother with the Ivies. They are not interested in kids from public schools in the Northeast no matter how well they did in high school. They get all the applicants they need for the few of those slots they have to fill.

- Location is more important than you think. A school in a hot job market like Boston or Nashville or one that dominates the state or is well known in a particular field is worth something.

Good luck. You all sound like great parents, and I know the kids will all do well.

there is an incentive for universities to cut costs, they will remain ridiculously expensive.

Costs will never drop unless there is the threat that they will go out of business.

a 4 year college education has become un-affordable. I like Eric's point about vocational training. That has long been a weakness in the US economy.

Robbieballs, I take your point about no-cost resulting in lower standards, but what can be done to make it more affordable? Parents are getting priced out. Are college employees gouging the system, overpaid? If yes, then cheaper schools will eventually win out. But, so far that isn't happening.

My fear, is that colleges have figured out ways to tap into the maximum disposable income parents have.

And, online training I am not convinced is the answer. Only certain students benefit from it. Live classroom instruction cannot be beat.

tuition goes up faster than inflation every year - maybe 5% per year. there is no basis for this.

the high costs are in part an unintended consequence from the government backed student loans from the Reagan era.

And many big time schools don't give Merit money, just "need based". You really need to be rich to afford 65+k per year for those. "middle class" is considered "rich" and will not qualify for FAFSA aid. If you have young ones, start putting as much as possible in your 529.

As stated above, there are other options. In-state is much cheaper. Also, 2 years at community college and then transfer to a 4 year school is also a good way to save. Also, some private schools offer good Merit aid. Even some state schools (i.e., Ohio State) offer big money for out of state kids.

they haven't raised tuition since he started! They haven't raised it in 4 years. He really made the right decision with that. Mitch Daniels has done an awesome job with Purdue.

Schools have unsustainable cost structures which are propped up by the guaranteed student loans that so many kids and parents take to pay the absurd tuition. No bank would make these absurd loans without the guaranteed payment of taxpayers, and then very few could even consider paying ridiculous tuition and then colleges and universities would be forced to both contend with their cost structures and eventually lower tuition to be market competitive. This country gets in so much trouble by always doing the same thing, we socialize risk and privatize profits. (This is a big part of the root cause to our healthcare cost problems.) What�s wrong with free college or vocational school? It seems to work elsewhere. And why is it that college students need to �work for their education� but banks can make profits on loans with zero default risk? The high cost of education which results in a modern day indentured service for most, and not to go off on a tangent but, we have a completely broken second rate healthcare system that leaves many bankrupted for getting sick and millions without any healthcare at all and less class mobility than most other western nations. The wonder of it all is that Americans continue to put up with all this second rate living while blaring to the world that we�re the greatest. We�re like Cleveland Browns fans puffing and blowing hard about how they�re the best team in the NFL. I just don�t get why we keep putting up with these things.

Because the Federal Government turned the Student Loan business over to the For Profit Lenders. Usury Interest Rates are part of the reason that graduates are struggling to pay off their loans.

Sure the individual states are involved in setting tuition rates.....but don't think for a minute that NJ doesn't know what NY or MA is charging.

But one cause I see is the unlimited funds that schools can exploit. You are pretty much guaranteed to get loans for school and colleges know this thus the costs rise. I�m a union elevator mechanic in NYC and decided it was a better investment to take he money for college and put it into a house and such.

of state college, including at least 2 years of dorm, and I believe, even a food plan, starting payments from early childhood on to when their child is first eligible to enter college. I know family that tied their credit cards to I Promise, converting points toward prepaying off these future college expenses. Florida HS grads need an exceptually high average to get into Florida State, U. of FL, and USF Tampa.
Also, I don't think, anyone here has mentioned yet the cost of a text book, which sometimes can cost at least $250.

can be used for textbook expense.

In comment 14036260 Named Later said:

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Because the Federal Government turned the Student Loan business over to the For Profit Lenders. Usury Interest Rates are part of the reason that graduates are struggling to pay off their loans. Sure the individual states are involved in setting tuition rates.....but don't think for a minute that NJ doesn't know what NY or MA is charging.

this is irrelevant to your post. Admins of all parties have supported guarantee of student loans.

The current student loan debt is estimated at 1.4 trillion dollars or something outrageous like that.

the wall is estimated at 10 billion.

Even if the wall ever gets built and winds up double that and accomplishes nothing your comment is political garbage and unhelpful.

Here in Florida, the Techs that start up their own businesses are making a fortune without having to bear the burden of a college expense. Also, as others have mentioned grad school expenses are excessive and a burden to pay back student loans.

with the requirement that the student work in NYS for X number of years or pay the tuition if not working in NYS.

The comprehensive fee here is nearing $70k per year. That's just a crazy amount of money.

Thankfully the school has a tuition exchange program and all three of my kids (all in college this upcoming year) all picked schools on that list. They are just paying room/board and fees.

It's tough for a school like the one I work at to cut costs. In order to attract the "high quality" ($$$$$$) students so that they can offer generous financial aid to those that need it, the sending needs to happen.

under a different administration private lenders were removed from the government student loan program and all federally guaranteed student loans can now only come from one place. This was in 2010 as an amendment to the ACA.

So now, the only government backed guaranteed student loans essentially come from the DOE. And since this has happened we have seen a lot of the largest increases in tuition.

In comment 14036288 Eli Wilson said:

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The comprehensive fee here is nearing $70k per year. That's just a crazy amount of money. Thankfully the school has a tuition exchange program and all three of my kids (all in college this upcoming year) all picked schools on that list. They are just paying room/board and fees. It's tough for a school like the one I work at to cut costs. In order to attract the "high quality" ($$$$$$) students so that they can offer generous financial aid to those that need it, the sending needs to happen.

*spending, geez.

As a footnote - 60% of the students where I work pay full boat.

being ridiculous. Daughter graduated from Northeastern 2 years ago and it was a 5 year program. Tuition, housing and food cost me about $300k for 5 years less $100k in scholarships.

I cannot agree in my daughter's case that level of education slipped. She got an outstanding education there, much better than my college education and unlike

her friends who went to vocational schools or on line education, she had a job locked up b4 graduation making a near 6 figure income in the Boston area. She may be the exception but while something definitely has to be done about college costs, I don't think at least in the next 5-10 years that vocational or on line schools are the BETTER alternative. Unless of course money is the issue, not level of education. Just my current opinion.

and can easily get between $50 to $70 an hour. With no college education, they are out earning many Florida college grads. Plumbers and electricians are also in great demand in Florida. Look at the cost to repair a refrigerator, washing machine, dryer.

when I was in college, in the early to mid 90's Northeastern was everyone's safety school. Some of the dumbest people I graduated college with wound up at Northeastern.

It seemed like a pulse was their only requirement.

Now, 25+ years later the co-op "gimmick" has proven to be a major differentiator for corporate America. NU is harder to get into than BU and BC, which was unheard of back when I was looking at schools and as mentioned above the quality of education is as good or better.

One of my twins has over a 4.0 in high school (heading in to her junior year), takes AP courses, plays sports, is on student council, does extra curricular activities (volunteers) and wants to go to Brown, no chance, and has Northeastern as her 2nd choice and I really feel like she will need to look at other schools because Northeastern has become that competitive she can have those good credentials and still not get in. Need to see how she does on SAT/ACT.

*I graduated high school with*

and will get great job offers upon graduating? The answer: Not that many.

will help me a bit is that my daughter is in an IB HS program, so I am thinking her undergrad will probably end up being 3 years instead of 4. And Homer is right, there is grad school. I think it is likely that both of my kids will want to go to grad school. It's been the norm on both sides of the family. That's why I want to cover as much of undergrad as possible.

Are you replying to my post? I didn�t say anything about a wall. Obama�s changing the administration of student loans didn�t eliminate the government guarantees, it corrected the privatization of profits for servicing loans without any risk. The disconnect between the cost of higher education remains with along with guaranteed loans. Anyway, my arguments aren�t partisan or personal.

In comment 14036320 trueblueinpw said:

Quote:

Are you replying to my post? I didn�t say anything about a wall. Obama�s changing the administration of student loans didn�t eliminate the government guarantees, it corrected the privatization of profits for servicing loans without any risk. The disconnect between the cost of higher education remains with along with guaranteed loans. Anyway, my arguments aren�t partisan or personal.

no, sorry, it was named later.

and yes under the ACA amendment what Obama (with a Republican congress) did was remove the private lender subsidies making all federally guaranteed student loans come from the DOE. In addition to the wall, Named later blamed the for profit lenders - which are no longer relevant - for the current escalating costs climate.

In comment 14036277 Steve in South Jersey said:

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with the requirement that the student work in NYS for X number of years or pay the tuition if not working in NYS.

Doesn't it have family income cap though?

In comment 14036215 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

Quote: The government has Billions for a Bogus Wall, but nothing left for college funding. just leave it to the fact education is expensive and the student loan practices are abhorrent. Why would you bring the Federal government into it? when you make comments like this you ask for retaliation. Education costs are not set by the federal government. They're set at the state level. Do you think maybe if states like CA, NY, MA, NJ, etc. didn't spend so much (they spend hundreds of millions if not billions) on illegal immigrants and being sanctuary "states" that they could use they money they spend on illegal immigrants to offset education costs for citizens? Maybe a wall if it limits illegal immigration would in fact help free up money for education, but college costs have NOT escalated b/c of the Federal government so asking the Federal government to accommodate for state greed or whatever policies forced them inflate education costs seems unjust and scapegoating.

This is an absurd post.

The root problem is that student loan debt is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy proceedings. That�s a federal issue. If a company can lend money with the least amount of risk possible and most protection they will. If a college has guaranteed money coming in every year and demand there�s no incentive to lower costs � it�s to raise costs.

Change the bankruptcy rules regarding student loan debt and this landscape changes instantly. Loan companies issue less loans, potential students choose other options, enrollment declines at colleges, colleges are forced to lower prices or close.

To your wall argument, there�s no guarantee it will even keep illegals out without getting into the rest of your nonsensical reasoning.

The costs were/are ridiculous. It is another of Americas great scams like healthcare.

He now has a job in the union he could have gotten without going to college and is making a shit ton of money. If I had it to do over with him I would have told him to skip college all together and go right into the union. Hopefully more people realize that college is not a "must do" and put the pressure on the colleges to restructure their costs.

should work the year after HS and get real life experience before committing to a degree they may not even want. It�s also not taboo to forego college anymore like it was when I went to school so that stigma forcing kids to think they have to go is declining.

If my daughter has a true passion for something I�ll support it through funding college but if she�s doing what I did, only getting a bullshit liberal arts degree, she�s going to be on her own, and/or just not go at all.

Quote:

The root problem is that student loan debt is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy proceedings. That�s a federal issue. If a company can lend money with the least amount of risk possible and most protection they will. If a college has guaranteed money coming in every year and demand there�s no incentive to lower costs � it�s to raise costs.

I think WillVAB is getting to the heart of the matter. Since schools have incentive to raise costs, they do. Until the loan debt/bankrupty rules change, tuition will be overpriced.

In comment 14036323 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

no, sorry, it was named later.

👍

As actual millennials (not the euphemistic insult for anyone young) rise in leadership in companies you'll see the value of ridiculous college degrees decrease.

I'm directly on the cusp of Gen Y/Millennial -- I'm at the entry level of what's generally considered leadership in emerging technology in a large corporation. Every person I hire in my group either 1) didn't go to college or 2) went to college in something widly inapplicable and goes back to a boot camp or trade school to get skills.

Early 20-somethings are super smart, really crafty and good workers. There will be market forces that devalue 200K 4-year degrees, because you literally don't need one to make 90K as a 22-year-old today. I can't hire enough young people in tech, and I can't keep them. After a year kids are leaving for 10-20K increases.

A CS or engineering degree is great, no knock on that. But you don't need general studies for 2 years, and 4-year-old tech knowledge to get a job.

yes I did a 529 for my son and it has hardly appreciated since 1998.

I kick myself because when he was born I was going to buy apple computer stock instead of 529 -- but we talked into setting up the 529 because of tax benefits

In comment 14036344 WillVAB said:

Quote:

In comment 14036215 pjcas18 said: Quote: Quote: The government has Billions for a Bogus Wall, but nothing left for college funding. just leave it to the fact education is expensive and the student loan practices are abhorrent. Why would you bring the Federal government into it? when you make comments like this you ask for retaliation. Education costs are not set by the federal government. They're set at the state level. Do you think maybe if states like CA, NY, MA, NJ, etc. didn't spend so much (they spend hundreds of millions if not billions) on illegal immigrants and being sanctuary "states" that they could use they money they spend on illegal immigrants to offset education costs for citizens? Maybe a wall if it limits illegal immigration would in fact help free up money for education, but college costs have NOT escalated b/c of the Federal government so asking the Federal government to accommodate for state greed or whatever policies forced them inflate education costs seems unjust and scapegoating. This is an absurd post. The root problem is that student loan debt is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy proceedings. That�s a federal issue. If a company can lend money with the least amount of risk possible and most protection they will. If a college has guaranteed money coming in every year and demand there�s no incentive to lower costs � it�s to raise costs. Change the bankruptcy rules regarding student loan debt and this landscape changes instantly. Loan companies issue less loans, potential students choose other options, enrollment declines at colleges, colleges are forced to lower prices or close. To your wall argument, there�s no guarantee it will even keep illegals out without getting into the rest of your nonsensical reasoning.

And those laws about student loan debt are 100% a bipartisan issue that has endured both party admins and congresses.

And, also, as illustrated previously, student loan debt (end of 2017) stands at $1.5 trillion dollars.

There is $106 billion on average borrowed each year.

What the F does a 10B wall have to do with it?

The numbers are insane and outrageous, but it's not a political issue (at least not one tied to a specific political party) and the wall comment was irrelevant and like I said, political garbage.

And don't absolve state/university greed, just because the government will guarantee more in terms of loans is not an excuse to raise tuition costs double the rate of inflation and triple the rate of wages. it's greed, and because those loans are not dischargeable does not take away the root cause.

single dad with 2 kids in college....ouch

with the Oregon's of the world (and yes, I know Oregon's facilities were funded by Phil Knight, Nike)...

Cafeteria

Lockers

Coaches Hot Tub (err, I meant "Hydrotherapy Pool"!!)

Coaches War Room


And so on. Yep, got to keep up!

In comment 14036390 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036344 WillVAB said: Quote: In comment 14036215 pjcas18 said: Quote: Quote: The government has Billions for a Bogus Wall, but nothing left for college funding. just leave it to the fact education is expensive and the student loan practices are abhorrent. Why would you bring the Federal government into it? when you make comments like this you ask for retaliation. Education costs are not set by the federal government. They're set at the state level. Do you think maybe if states like CA, NY, MA, NJ, etc. didn't spend so much (they spend hundreds of millions if not billions) on illegal immigrants and being sanctuary "states" that they could use they money they spend on illegal immigrants to offset education costs for citizens? Maybe a wall if it limits illegal immigration would in fact help free up money for education, but college costs have NOT escalated b/c of the Federal government so asking the Federal government to accommodate for state greed or whatever policies forced them inflate education costs seems unjust and scapegoating. This is an absurd post. The root problem is that student loan debt is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy proceedings. That�s a federal issue. If a company can lend money with the least amount of risk possible and most protection they will. If a college has guaranteed money coming in every year and demand there�s no incentive to lower costs � it�s to raise costs. Change the bankruptcy rules regarding student loan debt and this landscape changes instantly. Loan companies issue less loans, potential students choose other options, enrollment declines at colleges, colleges are forced to lower prices or close. To your wall argument, there�s no guarantee it will even keep illegals out without getting into the rest of your nonsensical reasoning. And those laws about student loan debt are 100% a bipartisan issue that has endured both party admins and congresses. And, also, as illustrated previously, student loan debt (end of 2017) stands at $1.5 trillion dollars. There is $106 billion on average borrowed each year. What the F does a 10B wall have to do with it? The numbers are insane and outrageous, but it's not a political issue (at least not one tied to a specific political party) and the wall comment was irrelevant and like I said, political garbage. And don't absolve state/university greed, just because the government will guarantee more in terms of loans is not an excuse to raise tuition costs double the rate of inflation and triple the rate of wages. it's greed, and because those loans are not dischargeable does not take away the root cause.

Yea fuck it, what�s another 10 billion right? Again, I�m not getting into your wall reasoning, my posts are directed at the specific topic of this thread.

This is capitalism. What, the schools should just lower costs for the hell of it? What incentive is there for the schools to lower costs? If someone offered you double the asking price of your home would you decline because that would be greedy?

is so inconsequential to the vastness of this topic, it is political garbage and an irrelevant comment. there is $106B annually added in new student loans with a current balance of 1.5 trillion dollars, but you want to use a one-time 10B expenditure as part of the solution. It's irrelevant and a distraction.

they always point to other schools as justification.
"Well, XYZ University went up 5%. We've only gone up 4.5%"

It's sad because I would never allow either of my children to attend our alma mater, both of which are close to a quarter million.

Even the room and board is absurd, equating to roughly $1,600/ month for a single shared room with communal bathrooms.

do you feel obligated to support your child�s higher education? I don�t know why but I don�t. I see more value in using that money to have them explore activities and trips to let them enjoy being kids, and use the rest to pay off our house which in the long run will benefit my child later in life.

If I managed to scrounge up $40k for college it wouldn�t even make a dent but it would like shave off many years of a mortgage.

In the next few years. This is one of the many things that really makes me wary. I put my wife�s Alma mater in a college cost projection calculator the other day and had it generate the cost for four years if school starting 20 years from now assuming everything continues on the same way.

The total was over $800K.

If I have a kid or kids I want to provide for them and part of it would be wanting to pay for their college but I am not shelling out $1.6mm for two kids to get bachelor�s degrees.

I feel like a hypocrite because my parents were generous enough to cover most of my college costs and I just got a liberal arts degree with it. I don�t really feel like I needed that education for my current job, other than checking the box as a requirement for eventual employers.

Still being on this side of it where I could just say you know what, fuck it, I�m not having a kid, I have to say it crosses my mind pretty often. If I go that route I want to give them everything I got but I don�t know if that is possible.

People always say some variation of �oh the bubble will burst�, but will it? I�d like a little more assurance that I�m not signing up for $200K/year for college.

In comment 14036426 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

is so inconsequential to the vastness of this topic, it is political garbage and an irrelevant comment. there is $106B annually added in new student loans with a current balance of 1.5 trillion dollars, but you want to use a one-time 10B expenditure as part of the solution. It's irrelevant and a distraction.

Politics aside, and if this thread could just focus on policy. And I'm committed to keeping it there 1) 10B according to the GOA isn't in the neighborhood of what it would cost to actually execute the plan as described 2) in the universe of policy capital and mindshare, it would be helpful if the executive office dedicated some amount focused on immigration policy to higher education policy.

I argue with my grand/parents all the time about this topic.

They "made it happen" for their kids, so we will as well.
Of course, when I point out that tuition has outpaced household income for decades, it leads to silence followed by "Well, we made it work".
Yeah, thanks. I'll be spending my inheritance on college tuition.

I think we have been conditioned to want to give our children such a good life that we as a society are now blinded. Supporting your child means different things to different people but I don�t hunk it makes you a hypocrite if you received money from your parents but choose not to with your kids.

Assuming you are around my age college was simply more affordable to save up for 20-30 years ago. It no longer is so then it�s a quality of life decision, atleast it is for me. Give my kid as great a childhood as I can until she�s 18 or cut back, maybe not do many after school activities and less trips just to afford college?

It�s an easy choice for me.

In comment 14036460 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

I think we have been conditioned to want to give our children such a good life that we as a society are now blinded. Supporting your child means different things to different people but I don�t hunk it makes you a hypocrite if you received money from your parents but choose not to with your kids. Assuming you are around my age college was simply more affordable to save up for 20-30 years ago. It no longer is so then it�s a quality of life decision, atleast it is for me. Give my kid as great a childhood as I can until she�s 18 or cut back, maybe not do many after school activities and less trips just to afford college? It�s an easy choice for me.

I would argue to invest the same percentage of resources in her education as your folks did. If that comes by way of something different than traditional 4-year college, killer.

A degree is less and less a differentiatior, and the most educated generation is the most in debt.

When your kid leaves home things will look different than now, but she'll need to have skills for the workforce however they come.

Today a degree is a necessary thing to just get in the door.

In comment 14036434 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

do you feel obligated to support your child�s higher education?

No, but I wouldn't want to start my adult life $100k+ in debt, and I don't want that for my kids either. I also don't feel obligated to leave my kids any money when I die, but I definitely am going to try to do it. It's hard enough to make ends meet even with good jobs, and it doesn't look like that is going to get much easier in the near future. If I can help them ease the burden, I am 100% doing it even if it means sacrifices for me.

You posting from Charlottesville?

In comment 14036475 XBRONX said:

Quote:

You posting from Charlottesville?

You epitomize everything wrong with society today in one post.

"People who don't think like me (coin operated group think lemmings) are Hitler or Racist."

You're a caricature. Congratulations. I weep for your offspring if you have any and I will say a prayer tonight that you cannot reproduce if you don't.

In comment 14036472 Rick5 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036434 UConn4523 said: Quote: do you feel obligated to support your child�s higher education? No, but I wouldn't want to start my adult life $100k+ in debt, and I don't want that for my kids either. I also don't feel obligated to leave my kids any money when I die, but I definitely am going to try to do it. It's hard enough to make ends meet even with good jobs, and it doesn't look like that is going to get much easier in the near future. If I can help them ease the burden, I am 100% doing it even if it means sacrifices for me.

I�m talking about sacrifices for the child when they are young. I look back on my childhood and I didn�t have shit, and the little money my parents did save went to a degree that didn�t mean anything. But it was cheap so it didn�t really matter.

My concern is shortchanging her childhood to save for college that A. She might not even want to go to and/or B. The amount saved would barely make a dent in what it will cost in 15 years.

Yes, I don�t want my child in a huge amount of debt but if her education is going to cost $300k, what�s $40k or $50k really going to do? I�d rather it accrue interest for longer in a trust and let her decide if she wants to use it to pay off student loans if she has them or a house or her own business, etc.

And this is just 1 kid. If I have another I just don�t see how I can save enough to reduce their college debt to a manageable amount. Wages just aren�t keeping up with rising costs, it�s getting pretty ridiculous.

you dont need to go to a top school. Here is what matters most...
1. What you study. Too many kids graduation with some bullshit degree like lesbian dance theory. Then, they are surprised when they cannot find a job.
2.Get some job experience while in college. Work as an intern in the field you are interested in. Do SOMETHING that gives you an advantage over the other candidates. The school you went to is NOT an advantage.

I actually think that kids are better off learning a trade. There is a shortage of good electricians and plumbers. If you are an entrepreneur, you can build an empire with those businesses.

Can't run from you very obvious posts. Do you have bone spurs?

In comment 14036485 EricJ said:

Quote:

you dont need to go to a top school. Here is what matters most... 1. What you study. Too many kids graduation with some bullshit degree like lesbian dance theory. Then, they are surprised when they cannot find a job. 2.Get some job experience while in college. Work as an intern in the field you are interested in. Do SOMETHING that gives you an advantage over the other candidates. The school you went to is NOT an advantage. I actually think that kids are better off learning a trade. There is a shortage of good electricians and plumbers. If you are an entrepreneur, you can build an empire with those businesses.

LOL - Lesbian Dance Theory.

I agree, get a degree that has a job in its future. I don't agree with the advice a lot of people give about "studying what you love". You should study what will get you employed, study what you love on your own time.

In comment 14036484 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036472 Rick5 said: Quote: In comment 14036434 UConn4523 said: Quote: do you feel obligated to support your child�s higher education? No, but I wouldn't want to start my adult life $100k+ in debt, and I don't want that for my kids either. I also don't feel obligated to leave my kids any money when I die, but I definitely am going to try to do it. It's hard enough to make ends meet even with good jobs, and it doesn't look like that is going to get much easier in the near future. If I can help them ease the burden, I am 100% doing it even if it means sacrifices for me. I�m talking about sacrifices for the child when they are young. I look back on my childhood and I didn�t have shit, and the little money my parents did save went to a degree that didn�t mean anything. But it was cheap so it didn�t really matter. My concern is shortchanging her childhood to save for college that A. She might not even want to go to and/or B. The amount saved would barely make a dent in what it will cost in 15 years. Yes, I don�t want my child in a huge amount of debt but if her education is going to cost $300k, what�s $40k or $50k really going to do? I�d rather it accrue interest for longer in a trust and let her decide if she wants to use it to pay off student loans if she has them or a house or her own business, etc. And this is just 1 kid. If I have another I just don�t see how I can save enough to reduce their college debt to a manageable amount. Wages just aren�t keeping up with rising costs, it�s getting pretty ridiculous.

That's different. My kids haven't missed out on anything in childhood and I only save for college after maxing retirement each year. It's really "extra" money in that sense, but I live in a relatively inexpensive area with low property taxes. Couldn't imagine it in the NY metro area with a 500k+ house and 15k+ in taxes. Even with a 529, you don't have to use the money for college (but you would pay a 10% penalty).

In comment 14036487 XBRONX said:

Quote:

Can't run from you very obvious posts. Do you have bone spurs?

I don't run from anything. that's kind of the point.

You are a passive aggressive intellectual simpleton who can't comprehend people who don't agree with you maybe aren't racist or Hitler, but you've been programmed to believe that anyone who doesn't think like you should be silenced. You're like a cult member with no capacity for free thought, you think what people tell you that you should think.

which is the worst part of our society. Adults could probably have meaningful discussions if people like you stopped interrupting to lob defamation bombs or to simply silence others.

In comment 14036488 PatersonPlank said:

Quote:

In comment 14036485 EricJ said: Quote: you dont need to go to a top school. Here is what matters most... 1. What you study. Too many kids graduation with some bullshit degree like lesbian dance theory. Then, they are surprised when they cannot find a job. 2.Get some job experience while in college. Work as an intern in the field you are interested in. Do SOMETHING that gives you an advantage over the other candidates. The school you went to is NOT an advantage. I actually think that kids are better off learning a trade. There is a shortage of good electricians and plumbers. If you are an entrepreneur, you can build an empire with those businesses. LOL - Lesbian Dance Theory. I agree, get a degree that has a job in its future. I don't agree with the advice a lot of people give about "studying what you love". You should study what will get you employed, study what you love on your own time.

It's probably best to do both things for most people. I went to college to "get a good job" and was miserable. I was an engineer and hated every second of my life. I walked away from it in my late 20s and went into a field I really enjoyed and now I make more money than all of my old engineering friends (even though my new field is, on average, lower paying than engineering). If you love what you do, life is more tolerable and you put in the extra effort to excel (at least for me that was true).

A few points:

Most colleges offer students a substantial amount of money as part of their package. So it might cost 60k but your daughter will also get 20-30 k
Scholarship. She will just have to accept going to a slightly lesser school. I e Cornell instead of Harvard

But that can actually be a good thing because GPA is the most important thing for grad school. Better to have a 3.8 at William and Mary than a 3.2 at UVA. In other words, she should go to a college where she can get a 3.8, which will also be the college that recruits her with a big scholarship

You should also hire a college counselor to take her through the process. It will be the best 4K you ever spend.

1. private college scholarships are not jut need based, they also offer merit based awards.

2. if you are a minority in your field in a given college, you will get higher merit based awards: I have 2 girls in technical fields, architecture and electrical/computer engineering, they both got merit awards.

3. I went to a state school, in a lecture hall with a 1000 kids, trying to learn calculus 1,2,3 physics 1,2,3 etc.,often from non-American professors. I struggled until I passed the mandated elimination courses with targeted attrition rates.

they admitted 2000 kids into the program, knowing full well that they would eliminate a lot due lab space and state of the art equipment availability in junior and senior years.

My kids are in private schools, they are both involved with project based learning in small groups. they started taking subjects in their major in their freshman year. both kids had assigned advisors to guide them.

4. Both schools that they are attending have over 90% retention rate within selected major. If you send your kids to a state school, and if the crowded learning situation turns them off from a field that they might otherwise excel at, or they change their major 2,3 times and graduate in 6 years, how much did you really save?

I saw a lot of people dropping out of their initial choices when I attended a state school.

5. once your kid gets multiple admissions, you can use the better offer from one college at and competitor college, if your kids prefers the latter.

just pointing out that simple state vs private $$ comparisons are too simplistic.
yes, there is a pricing difference, however, you get what paid for. our amounts were only slightly higher state schools.

In comment 14036502 Vanzetti said:

Quote:

A few points: Most colleges offer students a substantial amount of money as part of their package. So it might cost 60k but your daughter will also get 20-30 k Scholarship. She will just have to accept going to a slightly lesser school. I e Cornell instead of Harvard But that can actually be a good thing because GPA is the most important thing for grad school. Better to have a 3.8 at William and Mary than a 3.2 at UVA. In other words, she should go to a college where she can get a 3.8, which will also be the college that recruits her with a big scholarship You should also hire a college counselor to take her through the process. It will be the best 4K you ever spend.

GPA is not the most important thing for grad school. Your exam scores (MCAT, LSAT, etc) are the most important factor. Undergrad pedigree is even more important than GPA.

you do get into some fields within a corporate environment where they prefer an MBA (ie marketing). It is nothing more than decision makers in some instances who have an MBA and think that should be a requirement.

I have come across a lot of people who went to grad school who could not tie their own shoes. They looked good on paper, had that MBA but also had shit for brains and lacked business sense.

In comment 14036527 EricJ said:

Quote:

you do get into some fields within a corporate environment where they prefer an MBA (ie marketing). It is nothing more than decision makers in some instances who have an MBA and think that should be a requirement. I have come across a lot of people who went to grad school who could not tie their own shoes. They looked good on paper, had that MBA but also had shit for brains and lacked business sense.

It is if you want to be a doctor or lawyer.

In comment 14036521 WillVAB said:

Quote:

In comment 14036502 Vanzetti said: Quote: A few points: Most colleges offer students a substantial amount of money as part of their package. So it might cost 60k but your daughter will also get 20-30 k Scholarship. She will just have to accept going to a slightly lesser school. I e Cornell instead of Harvard But that can actually be a good thing because GPA is the most important thing for grad school. Better to have a 3.8 at William and Mary than a 3.2 at UVA. In other words, she should go to a college where she can get a 3.8, which will also be the college that recruits her with a big scholarship You should also hire a college counselor to take her through the process. It will be the best 4K you ever spend. GPA is not the most important thing for grad school. Your exam scores (MCAT, LSAT, etc) are the most important factor. Undergrad pedigree is even more important than GPA.

Yeah, in my field low GRE scores are the kiss of death for the good programs. The decisions are typically based on GRE, GPA, undergrad school, letters of recommendation, research experience, and interview performance (if you are lucky enough to get invited for an interivew).

Our son got accepted to our state university (UVM), Maine Maritime and Elmira.

The most expensive would have been UVM, Elmira was 10's of thousands less because of generous financial aid, and Maine Maritime was very inexpensive because of reciprocal agreements among the New England states.


Also worth noting that colleges like Dartmouth and Bowdoin are basically tuition free for families under a certain income. And the income threshold is over $100K a yr.

Of course the catch is that you have to get accepted... no easy task.

We always told our kids that if they worked hard in school, got good grades and did the other things they needed to prepare for college, that we would help out and try to set them up with manageable debt after graduation. In both cases they have only to pay back Stafford loans.

Both are productive, happy, self-sufficient adults, who continue to climb the ladder in their respective careers.

And we are not affluent... we were small town public school teachers. But we carried a commitment as parents from the time they were born that we wanted them to follow their dreams and aspirations and we would support them.

Success can be measured in many ways, not just salary. In our view, college is an investment in a child and not a profit / loss ledger.

In comment 14036623 VTDAD said:

Quote:

Success can be measured in many ways, not just salary. In our view, college is an investment in a child and not a profit / loss ledger.

+1

In comment 14036628 Rick5 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036623 VTDAD said: Quote: Success can be measured in many ways, not just salary. In our view, college is an investment in a child and not a profit / loss ledger. +1

Another +1.

But I�ll add: there�s no need to spend $250K+ for that experience. You definitely should be taking profit/loss into account when considering the cost of the particular school.

In comment 14036506 Floyd_Fan said:

Quote:

1. private college scholarships are not jut need based, they also offer merit based awards. 2. if you are a minority in your field in a given college, you will get higher merit based awards: I have 2 girls in technical fields, architecture and electrical/computer engineering, they both got merit awards. 3. I went to a state school, in a lecture hall with a 1000 kids, trying to learn calculus 1,2,3 physics 1,2,3 etc.,often from non-American professors. I struggled until I passed the mandated elimination courses with targeted attrition rates. they admitted 2000 kids into the program, knowing full well that they would eliminate a lot due lab space and state of the art equipment availability in junior and senior years. My kids are in private schools, they are both involved with project based learning in small groups. they started taking subjects in their major in their freshman year. both kids had assigned advisors to guide them. 4. Both schools that they are attending have over 90% retention rate within selected major. If you send your kids to a state school, and if the crowded learning situation turns them off from a field that they might otherwise excel at, or they change their major 2,3 times and graduate in 6 years, how much did you really save? I saw a lot of people dropping out of their initial choices when I attended a state school. 5. once your kid gets multiple admissions, you can use the better offer from one college at and competitor college, if your kids prefers the latter. just pointing out that simple state vs private $$ comparisons are too simplistic. yes, there is a pricing difference, however, you get what paid for. our amounts were only slightly higher state schools.

in both cases, it depends on the school (public or private. There�s enormous variances in each).

In comment 14036646 Jim in Fairfax said:

Quote:

But I�ll add: there�s no need to spend $250K+ for that experience. You definitely should be taking profit/loss into account when considering the cost of the particular school.

Agree... and I also question the "education" the kids get. They study, they are given projects to complete. They go through an educational obstacle course and in many instances come out on the other side with an education that they could have easily learned on the internet for free.

In comment 14036548 Rick5 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036521 WillVAB said: Quote: In comment 14036502 Vanzetti said: Quote: A few points: Most colleges offer students a substantial amount of money as part of their package. So it might cost 60k but your daughter will also get 20-30 k Scholarship. She will just have to accept going to a slightly lesser school. I e Cornell instead of Harvard But that can actually be a good thing because GPA is the most important thing for grad school. Better to have a 3.8 at William and Mary than a 3.2 at UVA. In other words, she should go to a college where she can get a 3.8, which will also be the college that recruits her with a big scholarship You should also hire a college counselor to take her through the process. It will be the best 4K you ever spend. GPA is not the most important thing for grad school. Your exam scores (MCAT, LSAT, etc) are the most important factor. Undergrad pedigree is even more important than GPA. Yeah, in my field low GRE scores are the kiss of death for the good programs. The decisions are typically based on GRE, GPA, undergrad school, letters of recommendation, research experience, and interview performance (if you are lucky enough to get invited for an interivew).

it probably depends on the program or discipline. I think some places don�t weight GRE as much as others unless they�re horrifically bad (more so in the analytical than anything else). Even outlier high may not be helpful. I remember several years ago when there was a lot of skepticm at our place at perfect scores in applicants from China (invariably associed with perfect TOEFL scores but zero ability to speak English). There was a strong belief among many that there was a lot of rigging of GREs going on.

Even for other stuff. I don�t know if it�s true but I heard that, at least at one point many years back, Hopkins stopped requiring MCATs.

Myself, if you can get a good read on quality of courses (not always easy) the GPA is higher on the list for acceptance, but for me, nothing beats a face to face.

Can cut the cost in half.

I plan on sending my kids to a CC and finish at a University. For example if you go to MCC for 2 years transfer to Rutgers they will transfer most if not all credits so you end up paying a fraction of the cost for the same degree.

In comment 14036755 kes722 said:

Quote:

Can cut the cost in half. I plan on sending my kids to a CC and finish at a University. For example if you go to MCC for 2 years transfer to Rutgers they will transfer most if not all credits so you end up paying a fraction of the cost for the same degree.

This is the path I followed in college. Cost effective. Went on to a great career.

A lot of it is a social stigma that�s finally starting to disappear. 15 years ago you were considered stupid to do to a CC. Now it�s a common practice and far more accepted.

Couple of things you can do. As many AP courses as they can in HS. Summer school to finish early. And CC if you need to.

Worst part is the electives - only electives you can make a possible argument for - 3 courses - one english (mainly for writing, one math - practical things like mortgages, 401ks, and a basic civics course).

really need to figure out what should college achieve - if it's preparation for workforce - which it should be, you can probably meet those requirements in 3 years at the most.

Best values ever.

Quote:

Choosing where to attend university and what you want to study is often a difficult decision. As if you needed more to think about, your choice of school and major can greatly impact your future earning potential, as shown in our rankings. We�re not suggesting that all college students should choose their school and degree based on the potential to make a lot of money; but we do think understanding what your earning power is likely to be post-graduation is crucial in order to make a sound financial decision when selecting an institution and academic focus.

2017-2018 College Salary Report - ( New Window )

Teach your kids to put the puck in the net. They'll go to an Ivy for free (unless you already have loads of dough). Of course, you may have to settle for Michigan or BC or Notre Dame.

In comment 14036862 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:

Quote:

Teach your kids to put the puck in the net. They'll go to an Ivy for free (unless you already have loads of dough). Of course, you may have to settle for Michigan or BC or Notre Dame.

Forget hockey... Crew. There are more colleges than high schools ( it seems) that have a crew team. Teach the kid to row and he/she will get a scholarship.

college since the days they were born, 1987 and 1990. Even with that I had to cover $100K out of our cash flow. All totaled it cost us approx. $210,000. That is even with the Army paying for my youngest's last 3 years. My wife and I were dumbfounded when we finally totaled the costs. I recall meeting with our financial planner back in 1987 and her telling us college should cost approx. $20K a year. She nor anyone could have predicted how the costs could have grown as fast as it did.

I now have 2 twin grand daughters age 2 1/2. My wife and I have set up a trust for them to be used for secondary education (any type) or to start a business. Based on our past experience with our sons it may turn out to be a drop in the bucket when the times comes.

In comment 14036864 EricJ said:

Quote:

In comment 14036862 Nomad Crow on the Madison said: Quote: Teach your kids to put the puck in the net. They'll go to an Ivy for free (unless you already have loads of dough). Of course, you may have to settle for Michigan or BC or Notre Dame. Forget hockey... Crew. There are more colleges than high schools ( it seems) that have a crew team. Teach the kid to row and he/she will get a scholarship.

True, but hockey is fun! Crew not so much...

(or any state) pre-paid programs.

Also, the youngest did Community College two years, first, because her SAT's were bad. Signed up for a program that places her in the 4 yr school on completion of AA. Savings? Semester at CC - $1300 tuition vs $3500 at university.
Paid for community college out of pocket and saved pre-paid for finishing at university.

Problem with cost is professors are extremely expensive and major universities bid on the "best" to boost the staff's reputation. (Bragging rights is what we were told)

I think Florida's university system is still one of the least expensive in the country and virtually impossible to get into the top 4 (UF, FSU, UCF and USF).

In comment 14036856 Steve in South Jersey said:

Quote:

Quote: Choosing where to attend university and what you want to study is often a difficult decision. As if you needed more to think about, your choice of school and major can greatly impact your future earning potential, as shown in our rankings. We�re not suggesting that all college students should choose their school and degree based on the potential to make a lot of money; but we do think understanding what your earning power is likely to be post-graduation is crucial in order to make a sound financial decision when selecting an institution and academic focus. 2017-2018 College Salary Report - ( New Window )

Not at all sure how accurate this thing is. Compare, say, to U. S, News and World Report lists of "best". Have no idea how to get truly reliable info about these things.

In comment 14036897 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:

Quote:

In comment 14036864 EricJ said: Quote: In comment 14036862 Nomad Crow on the Madison said: Quote: Teach your kids to put the puck in the net. They'll go to an Ivy for free (unless you already have loads of dough). Of course, you may have to settle for Michigan or BC or Notre Dame. Forget hockey... Crew. There are more colleges than high schools ( it seems) that have a crew team. Teach the kid to row and he/she will get a scholarship. True, but hockey is fun! Crew not so much...

Golf...

I think we waste to much money on sports and not enough on our kids education. Spend it on getting better grades and they get better options in college. Making a D1 team is a very low chance. I would also say do your homework and look into schools that finance and and give better institution grants. Also looking at room and board not much you can do there the cost of rent is up and your getting meals. That said if you have a avg grades its going to cost you money, if your kid is a great student it helps a lot.

In comment 14036933 mdthedream said:

Quote:

I think we waste to much money on sports and not enough on our kids education. Spend it on getting better grades and they get better options in college. Making a D1 team is a very low chance. I would also say do your homework and look into schools that finance and and give better institution grants. Also looking at room and board not much you can do there the cost of rent is up and your getting meals. That said if you have a avg grades its going to cost you money, if your kid is a great student it helps a lot.

That isn�t why you play sports. You are very much devaluing fitness, teamwork, commitment, leadership, and a whole bunch of other character traits that can come from playing sports. Being a kid isn�t all about the classroom.

played travel sports they are great but cost is also a waste of money. I think sports has gotten out of hand.

but its also not about driving 2 hours to play a game.

lets not even talk about how crazy parents have gotten over sports as well. I think its better to invest in your kids grades than it is sports that is all I am saying. Play local sports and High school as well.

but that�s fine.

if your a 3.0 going into college expect to pay for it.

spend a easy 5k if not more on sports a year.

In comment 14036898 section125 said:

Quote:

(or any state) pre-paid programs.

At least in Virginia, those plans have changed dramatically (and not in a good way). My friend has a kid in a Virginia state school and he paid around $20K for prepaid tuition years ago. Those plans now cost between $8,000 and $9,000 per semester and don't include room and board. I looked into it last year and didn't see any advantage over just continuing to save in a regular age-based 529.

In comment 14036966 Rick5 said:

Quote:

In comment 14036898 section125 said: Quote: (or any state) pre-paid programs. At least in Virginia, those plans have changed dramatically (and not in a good way). My friend has a kid in a Virginia state school and he paid around $20K for prepaid tuition years ago. Those plans now cost between $8,000 and $9,000 per semester and don't include room and board. I looked into it last year and didn't see any advantage over just continuing to save in a regular age-based 529.

There are pre-paid dorm programs, too. You are right, the normal program is tuition only.

Tuitions do rise and they are good at predicting costs. My two oldest cost me $11k each for the program. Actual tuition would have been over double that. #3 would be triple what I kicked in to the program.

529s are good programs, difference is that pre-paids pay the tuition no matter the cost (FL jacked tuition 15% per year while #2 was at college), with a 529s you still pay full boat for tuition. So if you expect to pay $15k per year for tuition and the universities jack the costs to $20k you still owe the extra $5k per year, pre-paid you would not need to make up the difference.

The 529 is still a very good program.

But the issue is that the mass availability of student loans has taken the pressure off colleges to control their costs. I understand all the social issues and the �haves and have nots�, but absent the motivation to compete for students, costs will continue to rise. If all of a sudden financing was not easily available and Colleges had to compete, it would be amazing how quickly costs would be pulled back into control.

do not give sports scholarships (to the poster above).

Additionally, Division III schools cannot give sports scholarships.

Division II can give partial scholarships, but less than DI.

Someone mentioned hockey.

There are 60 D1 men's college hockey programs in USA. No DII in Men's hockey.

18 scholarships each, that's 1080 scholarship players (not by year, but total) in hockey.

IOW, the odds are so astronomical that parents who have these expectations are very unrealistic and put way too much pressure on their kids. I say this as a youth hockey coach who deals with parents who definitely have this unrealistic goal.

the 1080 number doesn't even consider the Canadian (or other non-American) kids who come to play hockey in the US.

I'd guess 20 - 25% at least of college hockey players in D1 are not American. That leaves around 810 total available scholarships, and there are 550,000 male youth hockey players, and probably 35,000 at the high school level. So like 2%.

Now, I'm not naive enough (none of us probably is) to believe Ivy League or D-III schools don't come up with ways around the no scholarship loophole, and they find ways to get the players they want, but the point is sports scholarships are not something that should be planned on, but something that should be a dream.

college hockey would would have to play Jr hockey because they want older stronger players.

In comment 14036998 mdthedream said:

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college hockey would would have to play Jr hockey because they want older stronger players.

Yes, juniors increases your chances of playing NCAA, but again, odds are minuscule and that shouldn't be anyone's plan.

I agree 100 percent it is a long shot and a big expense.

now coaches our high school team that we both played on (for hockey).

His daughter might be the best youth hockey player I've seen (female). she was phenomenal and is now playing D-III.

the leading scorer of all time for Wayland, MA high school goes to Bentley and plays Club hockey.

it's a pipe dream, for almost any sport.

Hockey has the highest odds, followed by lacrosse, football, swimming and water polo (probably a smaller pool no pun intended) to play D1

volleyball, basketball, and wrestling are the lowest odds for a US high school player to play D1.

just because you don�t go pro doesn�t mean it�s a waste. How can you possibly think that?

Not all kids are meant to be scholars. Forcing them to be one could have really bad reprocussions. Support and nurture the things your kids are good at and if that�s sports so be it.

I hated school, no amount of investment from my parents into academics would have worked. I ended up doing just fine because they realized they should just let me be me.

High school hockey. Sadly its not what it used to be most real good players boys and girls go play prep hockey. More money wasted instead of playing for free. It is why I say sports has gotten out of hand.

not saying its a total waste of time just saying it is out of control. Becoming a business that makes money off of kids.

now costs crazy money and is no better.

In comment 14036982 pjcas18 said:

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do not give sports scholarships (to the poster above). Additionally, Division III schools cannot give sports scholarships. Division II can give partial scholarships, but less than DI. Someone mentioned hockey. There are 60 D1 men's college hockey programs in USA. No DII in Men's hockey. 18 scholarships each, that's 1080 scholarship players (not by year, but total) in hockey. IOW, the odds are so astronomical that parents who have these expectations are very unrealistic and put way too much pressure on their kids. I say this as a youth hockey coach who deals with parents who definitely have this unrealistic goal. the 1080 number doesn't even consider the Canadian (or other non-American) kids who come to play hockey in the US. I'd guess 20 - 25% at least of college hockey players in D1 are not American. That leaves around 810 total available scholarships, and there are 550,000 male youth hockey players, and probably 35,000 at the high school level. So like 2%. Now, I'm not naive enough (none of us probably is) to believe Ivy League or D-III schools don't come up with ways around the no scholarship loophole, and they find ways to get the players they want, but the point is sports scholarships are not something that should be planned on, but something that should be a dream.

From my experience, the Ivy League & top D-III schools coaches recruit by promising help with admission provided perspective student commits to them. Obviously, also need to be in range academically. For D-III, it may depend on the conference. For example, NESCAC strongly monitors. OTOH, D-III school (different conference) coach did call asking if my son would reconsider acceptance if aid package was increased. This was my son's safety school so it's possible his academics were strong enough to allow for additional wiggle room.

I do agree with your overall point, banking on an athletic scholarship is a really poor bet.

Quote:

The cherry on top is that Stanford also announced it was expanding financial aid. The university said that no parents with an annual income and typical assets of less than $125,000 will have to pay a single cent toward tuition. The threshold for this aid was previously $100,000.

Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14037129 Stan in LA said:

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Quote: The cherry on top is that Stanford also announced it was expanding financial aid. The university said that no parents with an annual income and typical assets of less than $125,000 will have to pay a single cent toward tuition. The threshold for this aid was previously $100,000. Link - ( New Window )

Annual income and assets less than $125k is pretty low. A house alone pretty much reaches that level.
But still nice for them to help. Probably some IRS prodding.

In comment 14036978 section125 said:

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In comment 14036966 Rick5 said: Quote: In comment 14036898 section125 said: Quote: (or any state) pre-paid programs. At least in Virginia, those plans have changed dramatically (and not in a good way). My friend has a kid in a Virginia state school and he paid around $20K for prepaid tuition years ago. Those plans now cost between $8,000 and $9,000 per semester and don't include room and board. I looked into it last year and didn't see any advantage over just continuing to save in a regular age-based 529. There are pre-paid dorm programs, too. You are right, the normal program is tuition only. Tuitions do rise and they are good at predicting costs. My two oldest cost me $11k each for the program. Actual tuition would have been over double that. #3 would be triple what I kicked in to the program. 529s are good programs, difference is that pre-paids pay the tuition no matter the cost (FL jacked tuition 15% per year while #2 was at college), with a 529s you still pay full boat for tuition. So if you expect to pay $15k per year for tuition and the universities jack the costs to $20k you still owe the extra $5k per year, pre-paid you would not need to make up the difference. The 529 is still a very good program.

That's what I was trying to explain earlier. $11K is fantastic. In Virginia, the plan that you bought would currently cost about $72,000. In Virginia, the pre-paid costs have increased dramatically in recent years. Years ago, it was a great bargain.

In comment 14036668 EricJ said:

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In comment 14036646 Jim in Fairfax said: Quote: But I�ll add: there�s no need to spend $250K+ for that experience. You definitely should be taking profit/loss into account when considering the cost of the particular school. Agree... and I also question the "education" the kids get. They study, they are given projects to complete. They go through an educational obstacle course and in many instances come out on the other side with an education that they could have easily learned on the internet for free.

This. At this point colleges are just firewalls for white collar jobs. You pay a huge, huge tax (because that's what student loans are now), go into debt, and you might qualify ... might ... for an entry level job where you'll have to be trained anyway. Unless you have connections of course.

There's going to come a point where this system is going to collapse. Why go $150,000 in debt (not counting interest) for a job that pays $35,000 a year?

Do you really need 4 years of school to learn how to do a marketing job? A high school graduate getting the on-job training can do just as well as a MBA can.

applying a couple years ago. We are very much middle class and she was an outstanding student with a deep resume.

No break on tuition and ended up picking another school that was less expensive, she loves it and is having a great experience.

Should have her Master Degree in 4.5 years - Public Health.

In comment 14037334 GiantsUA said:

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applying a couple years ago. We are very much middle class and she was an outstanding student with a deep resume. No break on tuition and ended up picking another school that was less expensive, she loves it and is having a great experience. Should have her Master Degree in 4.5 years - Public Health.

�Long the shores of old Cayuga
There�s an awful smell...
Some say it�s Cayuga�s waters
Others say...Cornell

from the movie "Scent of a Women" came to mind - the one where the wealthy kids were messing with the scholarship kid - asking him if he wants to join them when they go skiing in the alps for the break.

for athletics or academics.

they do give financial aid based on income, but no scholarships.

paid for the Florida prepaid college program for my grandkids. It covers many of the Florida schools so my grandkids had 4 years of college and 1 year of dormitory completely paid for at a fraction of the cost. Had they gone out of State the portion that was alloted for the Florida schools went towards a lot of the tuition for the out of State University. Not sure what States offer the prepaid program.

My wife, for her kids, immediately started paying for the Texas Tomorrow fund, so tuition for both her daughters cost zero..

As an aside, I told my son that he was going to a Florida community college which costs very little compared to the 4 year schools. Then, after 2 years he could go to a 4 year school for his final 2 years. That�s what he did. Santa Fe Community college in Florida for his first two years and then he transferred to and graduated from the University of Florida. I saved a ton of money doing the community college and then the 4 year route

In comment 14037350 pjcas18 said:

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for athletics or academics. they do give financial aid based on income, but no scholarships.

So they say...

But they say a lot of things. And yet, they somehow seem to make it happen for a player student that they really want.

In comment 14037449 Bill L said:

Quote:

In comment 14037350 pjcas18 said: Quote: for athletics or academics. they do give financial aid based on income, but no scholarships. So they say... But they say a lot of things. And yet, they somehow seem to make it happen for a player student that they really want.

Of course, I 100% agree and I said as much in prior posts, and a lot of this I know first hand, they'll find grants or better financial packages to get you there, but it's absolutely different still from a run of the mill division 1 program that gives scholarships.

A lot of times coaches split them so you get some relief but not all.

We were very lucky in our house in that of 3 kids one had a full athletic ride, one went to a service academy and the third went to a state school. So we only paid for one and it was an in-state rate. Still, the other two came at a cost and you have to decide if it�s worth it. There�s a lot of sacrifices to be made to be a D-1 scholarship athlete. You give up a lot of things you might want out of growing up in college and if you burn out, your in a weird place if you don�t want to all of the sudden start paying for yourself. And, the service academy is at least 5 years afterward. Both experiences are both inexpensive and costly.

so you don't need to tell me. D-III where you get zero money IMO requires a MUCH further commitment to balance sports and academics since you're still paying (full price in theory) to go to school.

it's sort of a "love of the game" mode.

Now, I did get perks like some awesome work study assignments, student athlete lounge and tutoring, and nutrition enhancement (meals), but the school/sports balance really IMO isn't different. I also got some grants I maybe wouldn't have gotten if I didn't play sports. So I understand the sports commitment.

Chance northeastern is harder to get into than BC

In comment 14037446 Big Blue '56 said:

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paid for the Florida prepaid college program for my grandkids. It covers many of the Florida schools so my grandkids had 4 years of college and 1 year of dormitory completely paid for at a fraction of the cost. Had they gone out of State the portion that was alloted for the Florida schools went towards a lot of the tuition for the out of State University. Not sure what States offer the prepaid program.

I was curious, so I looked it up. It looks like Florida still has a very reasonable plan. $29K is the lump sum. If it cost $58K for my two kids in my state, I would do it today, but it would cost me $144K here.

In comment 14037587 bhill410 said:

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Chance northeastern is harder to get into than BC

Sometimes people say things they think are true, like in this case, but facts show them they are talking out of their ass.

Acceptance rate:

Boston College: 31% on 28,454 applicants
Northeastern: 27% on 54,209 applicants


Average SAT Score:

Boston College: 1320 - 1490
Northeastern: 1370 - 1520

Now, you tell me which is harder to get in to?

my kids are in the Boston area and we're looking at schools, so unlike you I am not making shit up.

Source Princeton Review, link for Northeastern below.

And I was as surprised as others, but facts are facts.

Link - ( New Window )

the tentative plan right now is two years of community college and then hope the 529s will pay for the last two years of undergrad at an in-state school (preferably Virginia or VCU, the two schools within reasonable commuting distance). The eldest can use my two remaining years of GI Bill money. And they may be eligible for some forms of assistance because my wife is a disabled veteran. But still, we're anticipating a lot of pain.

Go back to the 70's and the 25-75 was roughly 1100-1300 and the place was considered a factory.

In comment 14037657 njm said:

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Go back to the 70's and the 25-75 was roughly 1100-1300 and the place was considered a factory.

Agree, and I said as much. when I was in high school NU was everyone's safety school, their tri-mester format and co-op program were considered gimmicks for them to make more money, but a funny thing happened along the way and people found that co-op program prepared NU students far more for the real world and the institution changed a lot of their admission policies.

In comment 14037132 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 14037129 Stan in LA said: Quote: Quote: The cherry on top is that Stanford also announced it was expanding financial aid. The university said that no parents with an annual income and typical assets of less than $125,000 will have to pay a single cent toward tuition. The threshold for this aid was previously $100,000. Link - ( New Window ) Annual income and assets less than $125k is pretty low. A house alone pretty much reaches that level. But still nice for them to help. Probably some IRS prodding.

The house value would be net of the mortgage so it's not as low as it looks.

Actually the prodding came from Chuck Grassley in the Senate. Back in 2006-2007 he had hearings to consider whether to apply the private foundation rules, which require the expenditure of 5% of the endowment as calculated each year for current expenses or pay a penalty tax, to colleges and universities. The Ivies, Stanford and other schools with large endowments increased their financial aid packages significantly to try to head him off, but the Great Recession did it instead.

In comment 14037670 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 14037657 njm said: Quote: Go back to the 70's and the 25-75 was roughly 1100-1300 and the place was considered a factory. Agree, and I said as much. when I was in high school NU was everyone's safety school, their tri-mester format and co-op program were considered gimmicks for them to make more money, but a funny thing happened along the way and people found that co-op program prepared NU students far more for the real world and the institution changed a lot of their admission policies.

Not for nothing, but in our visits I paid most attention to the dining hall (glutton that I am). For my money, NU had the best food of the three Boston colleges.

were at William and Mary

In comment 14037692 Bill L said:

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In comment 14037670 pjcas18 said: Quote: In comment 14037657 njm said: Quote: Go back to the 70's and the 25-75 was roughly 1100-1300 and the place was considered a factory. Agree, and I said as much. when I was in high school NU was everyone's safety school, their tri-mester format and co-op program were considered gimmicks for them to make more money, but a funny thing happened along the way and people found that co-op program prepared NU students far more for the real world and the institution changed a lot of their admission policies. Not for nothing, but in our visits I paid most attention to the dining hall (glutton that I am). For my money, NU had the best food of the three Boston colleges.

well I expand Boston to 5 schools because I add MIT and Harvard. LOL, just kidding, but good feedback, though both my twins are girls and rarely eat much at home so I'm pretty sure the dining hall isn't going to be their tie breaker. Boys, maybe.

I see them as the type of students who are letting their male friends use their meal cards at the end of every semester.

out there. Fill out your FAFSA and do the research. My daughter got an out of state UofM edu for basically an in state price.

in Time (pun intended).

Ranking the best value colleges.

the criteria are things like price without grants, price with grants, % who get grants that need $$, average debt when you graduate and early career salary.
Link - ( New Window )

the idea that Colleges are expensive now because they provide all these amazing amenities is a complete myth

the fact is 80% of the increase of cost in Public Universities is directly because States have cut their funding.
Since 1980 State Governments have slashed their support for STATE Public Universities. - the only place that Universities can make up this retreat of funding is through Tuition increases.

another fun fact- the just signed US Military budget increased funding $70 billion dollars this year-
that is the exact cost of making all Public Universities in US free for Students.

In comment 14038707 giantfan2000 said:

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the idea that Colleges are expensive now because they provide all these amazing amenities is a complete myth the fact is 80% of the increase of cost in Public Universities is directly because States have cut their funding. Since 1980 State Governments have slashed their support for STATE Public Universities. - the only place that Universities can make up this retreat of funding is through Tuition increases. another fun fact- the just signed US Military budget increased funding $70 billion dollars this year- that is the exact cost of making all Public Universities in US free for Students.

And how much has the rising cost of pensions and gold plated health insurance for state & local employees ($33,000 per year for some NJ municipal workers) affected their ability to fund state universities?

dollar estimate to provide education costs, was only for families making combined less than $125,000 gross income (which is 83% of the population).

So for the majority of the 17% (which I'd guess a significant amount of the college going population comes from), nothing changes. No free education.

and no idea why the increase in defense spending means anything relative to education unless you're a socialist and believe the world is all about lollipops and rainbows.

The idea that funding has been "slashed" is pushed by the colleges themselves. It's a factor, sure, but it is not the only one and very often not even the most important one. For one thing, funding has been "slashed" on a per-pupil basis. That is, the colleges often get as much or more in inflation-adjusted dollars but they have more students on which to spend it. The fate of tuition at private universities, with little or no direct state contribution, further undercuts this notion.

And the notion that you could suddenly make colleges "free" and have no significant impact on the decisions both to attend college and to keep attending college is nonsense.

Value for your money is a major data point in this ranking, so it shakes up the top schools a bit.

Best Colleges - ( New Window )

In comment 14040487 Jim in Fairfax said:

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Value for your money is a major data point in this ranking, so it shakes up the top schools a bit. Best Colleges - ( New Window )

That's a wild list, even considering value. Northwestern (86), Cornell (92), Hopkins (105), Emory (128), Carnegie Mellon (155), NYU (198) seem to be obviously misplaced.

In comment 14040547 BurberryManning said:

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In comment 14040487 Jim in Fairfax said: Quote: Value for your money is a major data point in this ranking, so it shakes up the top schools a bit. Best Colleges - ( New Window ) That's a wild list, even considering value. Northwestern (86), Cornell (92), Hopkins (105), Emory (128), Carnegie Mellon (155), NYU (198) seem to be obviously misplaced.

Looks like after financial aid is factored in NYU is the most expensive by at least $5,000. per year. That would certainly impact a best college for the money rating.