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NFT: Cost of college is really out of control

Rick5 : 8/11/2018 9:45 am
It's amazing how expensive it has become. My twins are 14, and my plan was always to pay as much of their college costs as possible (my parents did it for me any my brothers). I think they will probably target UVA and William and Mary, but we'll see. It's incredible to me that even state schools are quite expensive now. I think I will be able to cover 2.5 years each by the time they are 18 even though I have been saving in 529 accounts since they were about 4 months old. I think it really is much tougher for young people these days compared to when I went to college in the 1980s.
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agree 100%  
Jerz44 : 8/11/2018 9:53 am : link
im not an economist, but doesn't it have something to do with government loans that can't be defaulted?

either way, something should be done. 60k+ per year is unreasonable.
How much does one need  
spike : 8/11/2018 9:53 am : link
To cover for 4 years of tuition and room?
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/11/2018 9:55 am : link
and the quality of the education they get has plummeted. Do they come out of college now dumber or smarter than when the went in?

Personally, I hoping for renaissance in vocational training. I've told my kids to strongly consider it as I've seen more start-up businesses in my area with young people in the 20s with technical backgrounds.
Yeah it’s really bad  
DennyInDenville : 8/11/2018 9:58 am : link
My Firend just graduated with an ONLINE degree for two seasons to get the masters and it was 68,000 for that
RE: How much does one need  
Jim in Fairfax : 8/11/2018 10:00 am : link
In comment 14036150 spike said:
Quote:
To cover for 4 years of tuition and room?

Depends on where you go. A good state school is generally under 100K in state. You could save even more by spending the first 2 years at a community college. On the other end, some top private universities can be north of $250K
RE: How much does one need  
Rick5 : 8/11/2018 10:05 am : link
In comment 14036150 spike said:
Quote:
To cover for 4 years of tuition and room?

Currently about $35K per year at the two schools I mentioned. I attended SUNY Geneseo as an in- state resident. I was curious about that one too. That looks like it's about $23000 (in state).
RE: How much does one need  
pjcas18 : 8/11/2018 10:05 am : link
In comment 14036150 spike said:
Quote:
To cover for 4 years of tuition and room?


my twins are entering their junior year in HS. I agree with both Rick5 and Eric (though I don't think Eric's point is new, I think that was always the case).

Private colleges on average will cost you 280k for 4 years room and board for the better schools. You can get as low as 150k for the lesser schools.

In state resident for state schools can be 100k, but ironically it is now harder for in-state students to get into their state schools, because the schools can charge more for out of state students. they have lower standards for them. This is at least true in New England for all the state schools. Uconn is very difficult to get into for CT students (for example). When I was growing up it was easy.

Out of state resident at a state school is more like 150k for the better schools. And the differentiation is something like in MA you have Umass which is the biggest state school, but there are schools like Framingham state, Bridewater state, etc. that are not very good, so Framingham state may be affordable but Umass is the numbers I'm quoting.

Education costs are out of control and it's a massive ripoff.

Around me the vo-ed schools (for high school) are on fire, but the unforeseen side of it is most of the students are going to college. Caught the school organizers by surprise. People felt the education was better, so kids began flocking to them, and now the one my kids could choose has an 80+% college attendance rate.

I was pushing one of my kids to join the military to help with the cost of college (and I think it's a good idea for this child), but I doubt that's going to happen.
Certifications  
02/03/2008 : 8/11/2018 10:10 am : link
The tuition cost is one reason I think a lot of young adults and even older adults are doing certifications vs. diplomas. The cost is more reasonable and you can get trained in the exact skill you need or want at the time.

I’m still going to advise my boys to go to college or vocational school, but encourage the two year community college path for cost reasons.
So 280K for a GREAT school... versus under 50K for the best Trade  
DennyInDenville : 8/11/2018 10:11 am : link
School.

Make 85k a year with your trade... make 110k a year with your bachelors (lol if your lucky)

So 25k a year extra per year if you spend 250k on that university in pay checks, so you’d have to work 11 years in your career to break even with the Trade schooo person and that’s not counting the 2-4 years of extra time they already have in their career before the college student even try’s to find a job..

College is definitely a massive ripoff unless your going for something you know will produce mass amounts of money in a short period of time to pay off the debts you obtained to get that degree and job.
Cost me 38K @ year from my daughter to attend Kansas State  
montanagiant : 8/11/2018 10:11 am : link
An out-of-state school for us.

Costing us 30K for my son to go to Iowa State which is an in-state school
For  
montanagiant : 8/11/2018 10:12 am : link
Not from
Rick, you mention William and Mary  
montanagiant : 8/11/2018 10:13 am : link
My daughter just started her 10 month fellowship there a week ago
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/11/2018 10:14 am : link
It's a disgrace.
Thank God all 3 of my sons are gunning local...  
x meadowlander : 8/11/2018 10:15 am : link
...for Binghamton U.

One already nailed a fat scholarship to Rochester U, but not nearly enough to cover the insane annual tuition/board, etc...
And that’s why I’m making a trust for my daughter  
UConn4523 : 8/11/2018 10:17 am : link
to access, half at 25 and half 30. Whatever I do save won’t even put a dent in tuition if it stays this way. I really see no point. Would rather let that money appreciate an extra 8 and 13 years and set her up to buy a home. I don’t even think college will be necessary for many non specialized jobs in the near future as well - it’s already happening.
Both of my kids went to state schools, good and highly respected ones  
PatersonPlank : 8/11/2018 10:21 am : link
too, and the cost was about $20K per year (give or take). Definitely equal the education/job getting ability of a $50K private school
I got my entire education  
UConn4523 : 8/11/2018 10:21 am : link
from UConn between 2004-07 - total cost was about $45k tuition, room + board. 11 years after graduating in state tuition room and board is about $23k in state, $45k out of state.

At this rate it will be over $40k per year in state for kids who will attend 15 years from now. That’s insanity.
This is going to get somewhat political but there is really no way  
robbieballs2003 : 8/11/2018 10:25 am : link
around it. Certain parties want free education. While that sounds great the reality is that is just going to drive uo costs for those that don't qualify for going to college for free.

This is the way I look at it. I am an educator. When people have nothing invested in their education it just becomes a joke for a lpt of people. Not all people but a lot. In middle school and high school so many classes become watered down in terms of what you can teach because actually learning really comes last. Something like managing behavior and having great classroom management has to occur first.

Now, hopefully when these kids are a little older you don't have basic problems like behavior but I believe there will be other issues. Lets say a college prides itself on graduation rate. If a good chunk of people are getting into college for free I can see a good portion of those students not taking it as seriously as they should. I can see colleges adjusting their standards like high schools have just to get people to graduate.

In high school we had No Child Left Behind. Again, in theory a great idea but in reality it doesn't work. If you look at our Regents exams a student needs about a 35 percent on that exam to pass because the curve makes that grade a 65. All we really have done is lower standards to make the numbers look better. And as an educator the worst thing you can do for anybody is lower expectations. The number one thing proven to get the best results out of students regardless of money or any program is to set high expectations. I see all of this going in the opposite direction.
I don’t think college should be free  
UConn4523 : 8/11/2018 10:30 am : link
but it absolutely shouldn’t be this expensive, and shouldn’t be increasing yearly at abhorrent rates.

Why should anyone making a modest living set aside any money for college when the investment rates are a fraction of the rises in costs?

College stopped being widely affordable in the early 2000s for a family of 4. Its now so far out of control that it’s crippling for most families just to save a couple hundred a month. What’s the point?
..  
Named Later : 8/11/2018 10:31 am : link
It was shocking how truly disconnected the Colleges are from economic reality. In our discussions with the Finance Dept, they were clueless about the real world. Every tenured professor gets at least a 5% raise every year, every assistant prof can count on 3%, and all the aides get a nice bump too.

My Daughter started her College in Sept 2008, just as the Lehman shit was hitting the fan. On the campus, you'd think it was still 1999 the way they threw money around.

And forget about any Tuition Aid packages. Unless you're living in a cardboard box under a bridge....you're making too much money for any serious free aid. They will refer you to the many for profit Loan Arrangers and their exorbitant interest rates.

We were lucky, I started saving for her College the year she was born so we had a big part of it covered. But I paid for the rest of it out of Cash Flow rather than get tangled up with the shyster Loans. Daughter also helped us by graduating a semester early in January -- saved us about $20K. She got a good job months before her classmates got out in May....and her employer paid for her MBA.

The government has Billions for a Bogus Wall, but nothing left for college funding.
RE: I don’t think college should be free  
robbieballs2003 : 8/11/2018 10:38 am : link
In comment 14036191 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but it absolutely shouldn’t be this expensive, and shouldn’t be increasing yearly at abhorrent rates.

Why should anyone making a modest living set aside any money for college when the investment rates are a fraction of the rises in costs?

College stopped being widely affordable in the early 2000s for a family of 4. Its now so far out of control that it’s crippling for most families just to save a couple hundred a month. What’s the point?


100%. I had a college by me go bankrupt. I can see this happening more and more in the future. As the poster above me said, they seem cut off from reality and costs just keep going up so they just extend it to the students. I agree with Eric. Vocational school is a much better option for most people now. I tell my stidents all the time that they have to truly want to go to college. If they don't truly want to then they should be looking at trades. The people going to vocational schools are doing very well for themselves without the crazy debt. I know lawyers that are struggling because the debt has taken over their lives. It is crazy.
Absolutely  
UConn4523 : 8/11/2018 10:40 am : link
as online credentials get better, many schools will start closing their facilities in the near future. This just isn’t sustainable.

I’m in the construction industry and once the baby boomers are done, this country is going to be paying out the ass for trade labor - we already are. I know it isn’t sexy, by my electrocution neighbor makes almost as much as my wife and I combined. No college necessary and those jobs will be in abundance.
This is how things get out of control and political  
pjcas18 : 8/11/2018 10:49 am : link
Quote:
The government has Billions for a Bogus Wall, but nothing left for college funding.


just leave it to the fact education is expensive and the student loan practices are abhorrent. Why would you bring the Federal government into it?

when you make comments like this you ask for retaliation.

Education costs are not set by the federal government. They're set at the state level. Do you think maybe if states like CA, NY, MA, NJ, etc. didn't spend so much (they spend hundreds of millions if not billions) on illegal immigrants and being sanctuary "states" that they could use they money they spend on illegal immigrants to offset education costs for citizens?

Maybe a wall if it limits illegal immigration would in fact help free up money for education, but college costs have NOT escalated b/c of the Federal government so asking the Federal government to accommodate for state greed or whatever policies forced them inflate education costs seems unjust and scapegoating.

Don't forget grad school  
HomerJones45 : 8/11/2018 10:53 am : link
My two are out and paid for, thank God so you guys have my sympathy and understanding. To the extent it is a help:

- be smart consumers because there are lot of family resources at stake. Don't just look at the facilities. Ask questions about the intern office, the placement office and the alumni network. What is the success rate? what connections do they have to what employers and industries? where are the alumni located and in what fields? If your kid has interest in a particular field, what is the shcools reputation in that field? What is the employment rate for each field for graduates of the university. (and yes, they have those numbers). Guide your kid. They will start, if they haven't been getting it already, literature from schools recruiting students. Students are a big business, and you don't want your kid making choices to spend tens of thousands of family dollars without guidance. There will be battles, the battles will not be pleasant and you will have to fight them.

- Tell your kid what you are willing to pay for and what you won't.

- if your kid is interested in a higher education-vocational type degree: accounting, nursing, public relations, engineering etc, the state schools will often be better choices than the private colleges

- small, private liberal arts colleges will offer the best financial aid packages, but they have to. Liberal arts, in the sense that many of us knew them from college years have been destroyed, the graduates they turn out have a tough time finding employment and these schools are having a tough time competing for students. Unless the school offers, nursing (Salve Regina in Newport, RI is very well known for its nursing program), engineering, accounting or something similar, what seems to be a bargain may not be

- unless your kid has a compelling story or attended a private feeder high school, was a star high school athlete, is from outside the Northeast or is a legacy, do not bother with the Ivies. They are not interested in kids from public schools in the Northeast no matter how well they did in high school. They get all the applicants they need for the few of those slots they have to fill.

- Location is more important than you think. A school in a hot job market like Boston or Nashville or one that dominates the state or is well known in a particular field is worth something.

Good luck. You all sound like great parents, and I know the kids will all do well.
Until  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/11/2018 10:57 am : link
there is an incentive for universities to cut costs, they will remain ridiculously expensive.

Costs will never drop unless there is the threat that they will go out of business.
Something has to give  
Gregorio : 8/11/2018 11:00 am : link
a 4 year college education has become un-affordable. I like Eric's point about vocational training. That has long been a weakness in the US economy.

Robbieballs, I take your point about no-cost resulting in lower standards, but what can be done to make it more affordable? Parents are getting priced out. Are college employees gouging the system, overpaid? If yes, then cheaper schools will eventually win out. But, so far that isn't happening.

My fear, is that colleges have figured out ways to tap into the maximum disposable income parents have.

And, online training I am not convinced is the answer. Only certain students benefit from it. Live classroom instruction cannot be beat.
i have 2 in college  
markky : 8/11/2018 11:01 am : link
tuition goes up faster than inflation every year - maybe 5% per year. there is no basis for this.

the high costs are in part an unintended consequence from the government backed student loans from the Reagan era.
Yes it is  
ZogZerg : 8/11/2018 11:14 am : link
And many big time schools don't give Merit money, just "need based". You really need to be rich to afford 65+k per year for those. "middle class" is considered "rich" and will not qualify for FAFSA aid. If you have young ones, start putting as much as possible in your 529.

As stated above, there are other options. In-state is much cheaper. Also, 2 years at community college and then transfer to a 4 year school is also a good way to save. Also, some private schools offer good Merit aid. Even some state schools (i.e., Ohio State) offer big money for out of state kids.
My son goes to Purdue  
ZogZerg : 8/11/2018 11:17 am : link
they haven't raised tuition since he started! They haven't raised it in 4 years. He really made the right decision with that. Mitch Daniels has done an awesome job with Purdue.
Eliminate government guarantee on loans...  
trueblueinpw : 8/11/2018 11:24 am : link
Schools have unsustainable cost structures which are propped up by the guaranteed student loans that so many kids and parents take to pay the absurd tuition. No bank would make these absurd loans without the guaranteed payment of taxpayers, and then very few could even consider paying ridiculous tuition and then colleges and universities would be forced to both contend with their cost structures and eventually lower tuition to be market competitive. This country gets in so much trouble by always doing the same thing, we socialize risk and privatize profits. (This is a big part of the root cause to our healthcare cost problems.) What’s wrong with free college or vocational school? It seems to work elsewhere. And why is it that college students need to “work for their education” but banks can make profits on loans with zero default risk? The high cost of education which results in a modern day indentured service for most, and not to go off on a tangent but, we have a completely broken second rate healthcare system that leaves many bankrupted for getting sick and millions without any healthcare at all and less class mobility than most other western nations. The wonder of it all is that Americans continue to put up with all this second rate living while blaring to the world that we’re the greatest. We’re like Cleveland Browns fans puffing and blowing hard about how they’re the best team in the NFL. I just don’t get why we keep putting up with these things.
..  
Named Later : 8/11/2018 11:25 am : link
Because the Federal Government turned the Student Loan business over to the For Profit Lenders. Usury Interest Rates are part of the reason that graduates are struggling to pay off their loans.

Sure the individual states are involved in setting tuition rates.....but don't think for a minute that NJ doesn't know what NY or MA is charging.

I don’t have an answer to the problem  
bubba0825 : 8/11/2018 11:29 am : link
But one cause I see is the unlimited funds that schools can exploit. You are pretty much guaranteed to get loans for school and colleges know this thus the costs rise. I’m a union elevator mechanic in NYC and decided it was a better investment to take he money for college and put it into a house and such.
Florida has a program where parents can pay off 4 years  
idinkido : 8/11/2018 11:33 am : link
of state college, including at least 2 years of dorm, and I believe, even a food plan, starting payments from early childhood on to when their child is first eligible to enter college. I know family that tied their credit cards to I Promise, converting points toward prepaying off these future college expenses. Florida HS grads need an exceptually high average to get into Florida State, U. of FL, and USF Tampa.
Also, I don't think, anyone here has mentioned yet the cost of a text book, which sometimes can cost at least $250.
Florida also has a bright future scholarship, I believe that  
idinkido : 8/11/2018 11:36 am : link
can be used for textbook expense.
RE: ..  
pjcas18 : 8/11/2018 11:40 am : link
In comment 14036260 Named Later said:
Quote:
Because the Federal Government turned the Student Loan business over to the For Profit Lenders. Usury Interest Rates are part of the reason that graduates are struggling to pay off their loans.

Sure the individual states are involved in setting tuition rates.....but don't think for a minute that NJ doesn't know what NY or MA is charging.


this is irrelevant to your post. Admins of all parties have supported guarantee of student loans.

The current student loan debt is estimated at 1.4 trillion dollars or something outrageous like that.

the wall is estimated at 10 billion.

Even if the wall ever gets built and winds up double that and accomplishes nothing your comment is political garbage and unhelpful.

What Eric said about a technical training is significant.  
idinkido : 8/11/2018 11:41 am : link
Here in Florida, the Techs that start up their own businesses are making a fortune without having to bear the burden of a college expense. Also, as others have mentioned grad school expenses are excessive and a burden to pay back student loans.
I believe that New York State has free tuition to NY State colleges  
Steve in South Jersey : 8/11/2018 11:43 am : link
with the requirement that the student work in NYS for X number of years or pay the tuition if not working in NYS.

I work for a college  
Eli Wilson : 8/11/2018 11:46 am : link
The comprehensive fee here is nearing $70k per year. That's just a crazy amount of money.

Thankfully the school has a tuition exchange program and all three of my kids (all in college this upcoming year) all picked schools on that list. They are just paying room/board and fees.

It's tough for a school like the one I work at to cut costs. In order to attract the "high quality" ($$$$$$) students so that they can offer generous financial aid to those that need it, the sending needs to happen.

And further to refute your point  
pjcas18 : 8/11/2018 11:48 am : link
under a different administration private lenders were removed from the government student loan program and all federally guaranteed student loans can now only come from one place. This was in 2010 as an amendment to the ACA.

So now, the only government backed guaranteed student loans essentially come from the DOE. And since this has happened we have seen a lot of the largest increases in tuition.
RE: I work for a college  
Eli Wilson : 8/11/2018 11:50 am : link
In comment 14036288 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
The comprehensive fee here is nearing $70k per year. That's just a crazy amount of money.

Thankfully the school has a tuition exchange program and all three of my kids (all in college this upcoming year) all picked schools on that list. They are just paying room/board and fees.

It's tough for a school like the one I work at to cut costs. In order to attract the "high quality" ($$$$$$) students so that they can offer generous financial aid to those that need it, the sending needs to happen.


*spending, geez.

As a footnote - 60% of the students where I work pay full boat.
Totally agree about college costs  
redwhiteandbigblue : 8/11/2018 11:51 am : link
being ridiculous. Daughter graduated from Northeastern 2 years ago and it was a 5 year program. Tuition, housing and food cost me about $300k for 5 years less $100k in scholarships.

I cannot agree in my daughter's case that level of education slipped. She got an outstanding education there, much better than my college education and unlike

her friends who went to vocational schools or on line education, she had a job locked up b4 graduation making a near 6 figure income in the Boston area. She may be the exception but while something definitely has to be done about college costs, I don't think at least in the next 5-10 years that vocational or on line schools are the BETTER alternative. Unless of course money is the issue, not level of education. Just my current opinion.
In Florida, a good handyman is in great demand  
idinkido : 8/11/2018 11:57 am : link
and can easily get between $50 to $70 an hour. With no college education, they are out earning many Florida college grads. Plumbers and electricians are also in great demand in Florida. Look at the cost to repair a refrigerator, washing machine, dryer.
Northeastern is an interesting case  
pjcas18 : 8/11/2018 11:58 am : link
when I was in college, in the early to mid 90's Northeastern was everyone's safety school. Some of the dumbest people I graduated college with wound up at Northeastern.

It seemed like a pulse was their only requirement.

Now, 25+ years later the co-op "gimmick" has proven to be a major differentiator for corporate America. NU is harder to get into than BU and BC, which was unheard of back when I was looking at schools and as mentioned above the quality of education is as good or better.

One of my twins has over a 4.0 in high school (heading in to her junior year), takes AP courses, plays sports, is on student council, does extra curricular activities (volunteers) and wants to go to Brown, no chance, and has Northeastern as her 2nd choice and I really feel like she will need to look at other schools because Northeastern has become that competitive she can have those good credentials and still not get in. Need to see how she does on SAT/ACT.
should say  
pjcas18 : 8/11/2018 11:58 am : link
*I graduated high school with*
How many college grads are actually outstanding students  
idinkido : 8/11/2018 12:01 pm : link
and will get great job offers upon graduating? The answer: Not that many.
One thing that  
Rick5 : 8/11/2018 12:03 pm : link
will help me a bit is that my daughter is in an IB HS program, so I am thinking her undergrad will probably end up being 3 years instead of 4. And Homer is right, there is grad school. I think it is likely that both of my kids will want to go to grad school. It's been the norm on both sides of the family. That's why I want to cover as much of undergrad as possible.
pj  
trueblueinpw : 8/11/2018 12:04 pm : link
Are you replying to my post? I didn’t say anything about a wall. Obama’s changing the administration of student loans didn’t eliminate the government guarantees, it corrected the privatization of profits for servicing loans without any risk. The disconnect between the cost of higher education remains with along with guaranteed loans. Anyway, my arguments aren’t partisan or personal.
RE: pj  
pjcas18 : 8/11/2018 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14036320 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Are you replying to my post? I didn’t say anything about a wall. Obama’s changing the administration of student loans didn’t eliminate the government guarantees, it corrected the privatization of profits for servicing loans without any risk. The disconnect between the cost of higher education remains with along with guaranteed loans. Anyway, my arguments aren’t partisan or personal.


no, sorry, it was named later.

and yes under the ACA amendment what Obama (with a Republican congress) did was remove the private lender subsidies making all federally guaranteed student loans come from the DOE. In addition to the wall, Named later blamed the for profit lenders - which are no longer relevant - for the current escalating costs climate.
RE: I believe that New York State has free tuition to NY State colleges  
Rick5 : 8/11/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 14036277 Steve in South Jersey said:
Quote:
with the requirement that the student work in NYS for X number of years or pay the tuition if not working in NYS.

Doesn't it have family income cap though?
RE: This is how things get out of control and political  
WillVAB : 8/11/2018 12:25 pm : link
In comment 14036215 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


Quote:


The government has Billions for a Bogus Wall, but nothing left for college funding.



just leave it to the fact education is expensive and the student loan practices are abhorrent. Why would you bring the Federal government into it?

when you make comments like this you ask for retaliation.

Education costs are not set by the federal government. They're set at the state level. Do you think maybe if states like CA, NY, MA, NJ, etc. didn't spend so much (they spend hundreds of millions if not billions) on illegal immigrants and being sanctuary "states" that they could use they money they spend on illegal immigrants to offset education costs for citizens?

Maybe a wall if it limits illegal immigration would in fact help free up money for education, but college costs have NOT escalated b/c of the Federal government so asking the Federal government to accommodate for state greed or whatever policies forced them inflate education costs seems unjust and scapegoating.


This is an absurd post.

The root problem is that student loan debt is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy proceedings. That’s a federal issue. If a company can lend money with the least amount of risk possible and most protection they will. If a college has guaranteed money coming in every year and demand there’s no incentive to lower costs — it’s to raise costs.

Change the bankruptcy rules regarding student loan debt and this landscape changes instantly. Loan companies issue less loans, potential students choose other options, enrollment declines at colleges, colleges are forced to lower prices or close.

To your wall argument, there’s no guarantee it will even keep illegals out without getting into the rest of your nonsensical reasoning.
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