It's amazing how expensive it has become. My twins are 14, and my plan was always to pay as much of their college costs as possible (my parents did it for me any my brothers). I think they will probably target UVA and William and Mary, but we'll see. It's incredible to me that even state schools are quite expensive now. I think I will be able to cover 2.5 years each by the time they are 18 even though I have been saving in 529 accounts since they were about 4 months old. I think it really is much tougher for young people these days compared to when I went to college in the 1980s.
He now has a job in the union he could have gotten without going to college and is making a shit ton of money. If I had it to do over with him I would have told him to skip college all together and go right into the union. Hopefully more people realize that college is not a "must do" and put the pressure on the colleges to restructure their costs.
If my daughter has a true passion for something Ill support it through funding college but if shes doing what I did, only getting a bullshit liberal arts degree, shes going to be on her own, and/or just not go at all.
I think WillVAB is getting to the heart of the matter. Since schools have incentive to raise costs, they do. Until the loan debt/bankrupty rules change, tuition will be overpriced.
no, sorry, it was named later.
👍
I'm directly on the cusp of Gen Y/Millennial -- I'm at the entry level of what's generally considered leadership in emerging technology in a large corporation. Every person I hire in my group either 1) didn't go to college or 2) went to college in something widly inapplicable and goes back to a boot camp or trade school to get skills.
Early 20-somethings are super smart, really crafty and good workers. There will be market forces that devalue 200K 4-year degrees, because you literally don't need one to make 90K as a 22-year-old today. I can't hire enough young people in tech, and I can't keep them. After a year kids are leaving for 10-20K increases.
A CS or engineering degree is great, no knock on that. But you don't need general studies for 2 years, and 4-year-old tech knowledge to get a job.
I kick myself because when he was born I was going to buy apple computer stock instead of 529 -- but we talked into setting up the 529 because of tax benefits
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The government has Billions for a Bogus Wall, but nothing left for college funding.
just leave it to the fact education is expensive and the student loan practices are abhorrent. Why would you bring the Federal government into it?
when you make comments like this you ask for retaliation.
Education costs are not set by the federal government. They're set at the state level. Do you think maybe if states like CA, NY, MA, NJ, etc. didn't spend so much (they spend hundreds of millions if not billions) on illegal immigrants and being sanctuary "states" that they could use they money they spend on illegal immigrants to offset education costs for citizens?
Maybe a wall if it limits illegal immigration would in fact help free up money for education, but college costs have NOT escalated b/c of the Federal government so asking the Federal government to accommodate for state greed or whatever policies forced them inflate education costs seems unjust and scapegoating.
This is an absurd post.
The root problem is that student loan debt is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy proceedings. Thats a federal issue. If a company can lend money with the least amount of risk possible and most protection they will. If a college has guaranteed money coming in every year and demand theres no incentive to lower costs its to raise costs.
Change the bankruptcy rules regarding student loan debt and this landscape changes instantly. Loan companies issue less loans, potential students choose other options, enrollment declines at colleges, colleges are forced to lower prices or close.
To your wall argument, theres no guarantee it will even keep illegals out without getting into the rest of your nonsensical reasoning.
And those laws about student loan debt are 100% a bipartisan issue that has endured both party admins and congresses.
And, also, as illustrated previously, student loan debt (end of 2017) stands at $1.5 trillion dollars.
There is $106 billion on average borrowed each year.
What the F does a 10B wall have to do with it?
The numbers are insane and outrageous, but it's not a political issue (at least not one tied to a specific political party) and the wall comment was irrelevant and like I said, political garbage.
And don't absolve state/university greed, just because the government will guarantee more in terms of loans is not an excuse to raise tuition costs double the rate of inflation and triple the rate of wages. it's greed, and because those loans are not dischargeable does not take away the root cause.
Cafeteria
Lockers
Coaches Hot Tub (err, I meant "Hydrotherapy Pool"!!)
Coaches War Room
And so on. Yep, got to keep up!
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In comment 14036215 pjcas18 said:
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The government has Billions for a Bogus Wall, but nothing left for college funding.
just leave it to the fact education is expensive and the student loan practices are abhorrent. Why would you bring the Federal government into it?
when you make comments like this you ask for retaliation.
Education costs are not set by the federal government. They're set at the state level. Do you think maybe if states like CA, NY, MA, NJ, etc. didn't spend so much (they spend hundreds of millions if not billions) on illegal immigrants and being sanctuary "states" that they could use they money they spend on illegal immigrants to offset education costs for citizens?
Maybe a wall if it limits illegal immigration would in fact help free up money for education, but college costs have NOT escalated b/c of the Federal government so asking the Federal government to accommodate for state greed or whatever policies forced them inflate education costs seems unjust and scapegoating.
This is an absurd post.
The root problem is that student loan debt is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy proceedings. Thats a federal issue. If a company can lend money with the least amount of risk possible and most protection they will. If a college has guaranteed money coming in every year and demand theres no incentive to lower costs its to raise costs.
Change the bankruptcy rules regarding student loan debt and this landscape changes instantly. Loan companies issue less loans, potential students choose other options, enrollment declines at colleges, colleges are forced to lower prices or close.
To your wall argument, theres no guarantee it will even keep illegals out without getting into the rest of your nonsensical reasoning.
And those laws about student loan debt are 100% a bipartisan issue that has endured both party admins and congresses.
And, also, as illustrated previously, student loan debt (end of 2017) stands at $1.5 trillion dollars.
There is $106 billion on average borrowed each year.
What the F does a 10B wall have to do with it?
The numbers are insane and outrageous, but it's not a political issue (at least not one tied to a specific political party) and the wall comment was irrelevant and like I said, political garbage.
And don't absolve state/university greed, just because the government will guarantee more in terms of loans is not an excuse to raise tuition costs double the rate of inflation and triple the rate of wages. it's greed, and because those loans are not dischargeable does not take away the root cause.
Yea fuck it, whats another 10 billion right? Again, Im not getting into your wall reasoning, my posts are directed at the specific topic of this thread.
This is capitalism. What, the schools should just lower costs for the hell of it? What incentive is there for the schools to lower costs? If someone offered you double the asking price of your home would you decline because that would be greedy?
"Well, XYZ University went up 5%. We've only gone up 4.5%"
It's sad because I would never allow either of my children to attend our alma mater, both of which are close to a quarter million.
Even the room and board is absurd, equating to roughly $1,600/ month for a single shared room with communal bathrooms.
If I managed to scrounge up $40k for college it wouldnt even make a dent but it would like shave off many years of a mortgage.
The total was over $800K.
If I have a kid or kids I want to provide for them and part of it would be wanting to pay for their college but I am not shelling out $1.6mm for two kids to get bachelors degrees.
I feel like a hypocrite because my parents were generous enough to cover most of my college costs and I just got a liberal arts degree with it. I dont really feel like I needed that education for my current job, other than checking the box as a requirement for eventual employers.
Still being on this side of it where I could just say you know what, fuck it, Im not having a kid, I have to say it crosses my mind pretty often. If I go that route I want to give them everything I got but I dont know if that is possible.
People always say some variation of oh the bubble will burst, but will it? Id like a little more assurance that Im not signing up for $200K/year for college.
Politics aside, and if this thread could just focus on policy. And I'm committed to keeping it there 1) 10B according to the GOA isn't in the neighborhood of what it would cost to actually execute the plan as described 2) in the universe of policy capital and mindshare, it would be helpful if the executive office dedicated some amount focused on immigration policy to higher education policy.
They "made it happen" for their kids, so we will as well.
Of course, when I point out that tuition has outpaced household income for decades, it leads to silence followed by "Well, we made it work".
Yeah, thanks. I'll be spending my inheritance on college tuition.
Assuming you are around my age college was simply more affordable to save up for 20-30 years ago. It no longer is so then its a quality of life decision, atleast it is for me. Give my kid as great a childhood as I can until shes 18 or cut back, maybe not do many after school activities and less trips just to afford college?
Its an easy choice for me.
Assuming you are around my age college was simply more affordable to save up for 20-30 years ago. It no longer is so then its a quality of life decision, atleast it is for me. Give my kid as great a childhood as I can until shes 18 or cut back, maybe not do many after school activities and less trips just to afford college?
Its an easy choice for me.
I would argue to invest the same percentage of resources in her education as your folks did. If that comes by way of something different than traditional 4-year college, killer.
A degree is less and less a differentiatior, and the most educated generation is the most in debt.
When your kid leaves home things will look different than now, but she'll need to have skills for the workforce however they come.
No, but I wouldn't want to start my adult life $100k+ in debt, and I don't want that for my kids either. I also don't feel obligated to leave my kids any money when I die, but I definitely am going to try to do it. It's hard enough to make ends meet even with good jobs, and it doesn't look like that is going to get much easier in the near future. If I can help them ease the burden, I am 100% doing it even if it means sacrifices for me.
You epitomize everything wrong with society today in one post.
"People who don't think like me (coin operated group think lemmings) are Hitler or Racist."
You're a caricature. Congratulations. I weep for your offspring if you have any and I will say a prayer tonight that you cannot reproduce if you don't.
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do you feel obligated to support your childs higher education?
No, but I wouldn't want to start my adult life $100k+ in debt, and I don't want that for my kids either. I also don't feel obligated to leave my kids any money when I die, but I definitely am going to try to do it. It's hard enough to make ends meet even with good jobs, and it doesn't look like that is going to get much easier in the near future. If I can help them ease the burden, I am 100% doing it even if it means sacrifices for me.
Im talking about sacrifices for the child when they are young. I look back on my childhood and I didnt have shit, and the little money my parents did save went to a degree that didnt mean anything. But it was cheap so it didnt really matter.
My concern is shortchanging her childhood to save for college that A. She might not even want to go to and/or B. The amount saved would barely make a dent in what it will cost in 15 years.
Yes, I dont want my child in a huge amount of debt but if her education is going to cost $300k, whats $40k or $50k really going to do? Id rather it accrue interest for longer in a trust and let her decide if she wants to use it to pay off student loans if she has them or a house or her own business, etc.
And this is just 1 kid. If I have another I just dont see how I can save enough to reduce their college debt to a manageable amount. Wages just arent keeping up with rising costs, its getting pretty ridiculous.
1. What you study. Too many kids graduation with some bullshit degree like lesbian dance theory. Then, they are surprised when they cannot find a job.
2.Get some job experience while in college. Work as an intern in the field you are interested in. Do SOMETHING that gives you an advantage over the other candidates. The school you went to is NOT an advantage.
I actually think that kids are better off learning a trade. There is a shortage of good electricians and plumbers. If you are an entrepreneur, you can build an empire with those businesses.
1. What you study. Too many kids graduation with some bullshit degree like lesbian dance theory. Then, they are surprised when they cannot find a job.
2.Get some job experience while in college. Work as an intern in the field you are interested in. Do SOMETHING that gives you an advantage over the other candidates. The school you went to is NOT an advantage.
I actually think that kids are better off learning a trade. There is a shortage of good electricians and plumbers. If you are an entrepreneur, you can build an empire with those businesses.
LOL - Lesbian Dance Theory.
I agree, get a degree that has a job in its future. I don't agree with the advice a lot of people give about "studying what you love". You should study what will get you employed, study what you love on your own time.
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In comment 14036434 UConn4523 said:
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do you feel obligated to support your childs higher education?
No, but I wouldn't want to start my adult life $100k+ in debt, and I don't want that for my kids either. I also don't feel obligated to leave my kids any money when I die, but I definitely am going to try to do it. It's hard enough to make ends meet even with good jobs, and it doesn't look like that is going to get much easier in the near future. If I can help them ease the burden, I am 100% doing it even if it means sacrifices for me.
Im talking about sacrifices for the child when they are young. I look back on my childhood and I didnt have shit, and the little money my parents did save went to a degree that didnt mean anything. But it was cheap so it didnt really matter.
My concern is shortchanging her childhood to save for college that A. She might not even want to go to and/or B. The amount saved would barely make a dent in what it will cost in 15 years.
Yes, I dont want my child in a huge amount of debt but if her education is going to cost $300k, whats $40k or $50k really going to do? Id rather it accrue interest for longer in a trust and let her decide if she wants to use it to pay off student loans if she has them or a house or her own business, etc.
And this is just 1 kid. If I have another I just dont see how I can save enough to reduce their college debt to a manageable amount. Wages just arent keeping up with rising costs, its getting pretty ridiculous.
That's different. My kids haven't missed out on anything in childhood and I only save for college after maxing retirement each year. It's really "extra" money in that sense, but I live in a relatively inexpensive area with low property taxes. Couldn't imagine it in the NY metro area with a 500k+ house and 15k+ in taxes. Even with a 529, you don't have to use the money for college (but you would pay a 10% penalty).
I don't run from anything. that's kind of the point.
You are a passive aggressive intellectual simpleton who can't comprehend people who don't agree with you maybe aren't racist or Hitler, but you've been programmed to believe that anyone who doesn't think like you should be silenced. You're like a cult member with no capacity for free thought, you think what people tell you that you should think.
which is the worst part of our society. Adults could probably have meaningful discussions if people like you stopped interrupting to lob defamation bombs or to simply silence others.
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you dont need to go to a top school. Here is what matters most...
1. What you study. Too many kids graduation with some bullshit degree like lesbian dance theory. Then, they are surprised when they cannot find a job.
2.Get some job experience while in college. Work as an intern in the field you are interested in. Do SOMETHING that gives you an advantage over the other candidates. The school you went to is NOT an advantage.
I actually think that kids are better off learning a trade. There is a shortage of good electricians and plumbers. If you are an entrepreneur, you can build an empire with those businesses.
LOL - Lesbian Dance Theory.
I agree, get a degree that has a job in its future. I don't agree with the advice a lot of people give about "studying what you love". You should study what will get you employed, study what you love on your own time.
It's probably best to do both things for most people. I went to college to "get a good job" and was miserable. I was an engineer and hated every second of my life. I walked away from it in my late 20s and went into a field I really enjoyed and now I make more money than all of my old engineering friends (even though my new field is, on average, lower paying than engineering). If you love what you do, life is more tolerable and you put in the extra effort to excel (at least for me that was true).
Most colleges offer students a substantial amount of money as part of their package. So it might cost 60k but your daughter will also get 20-30 k
Scholarship. She will just have to accept going to a slightly lesser school. I e Cornell instead of Harvard
But that can actually be a good thing because GPA is the most important thing for grad school. Better to have a 3.8 at William and Mary than a 3.2 at UVA. In other words, she should go to a college where she can get a 3.8, which will also be the college that recruits her with a big scholarship
You should also hire a college counselor to take her through the process. It will be the best 4K you ever spend.
2. if you are a minority in your field in a given college, you will get higher merit based awards: I have 2 girls in technical fields, architecture and electrical/computer engineering, they both got merit awards.
3. I went to a state school, in a lecture hall with a 1000 kids, trying to learn calculus 1,2,3 physics 1,2,3 etc.,often from non-American professors. I struggled until I passed the mandated elimination courses with targeted attrition rates.
they admitted 2000 kids into the program, knowing full well that they would eliminate a lot due lab space and state of the art equipment availability in junior and senior years.
My kids are in private schools, they are both involved with project based learning in small groups. they started taking subjects in their major in their freshman year. both kids had assigned advisors to guide them.
4. Both schools that they are attending have over 90% retention rate within selected major. If you send your kids to a state school, and if the crowded learning situation turns them off from a field that they might otherwise excel at, or they change their major 2,3 times and graduate in 6 years, how much did you really save?
I saw a lot of people dropping out of their initial choices when I attended a state school.
5. once your kid gets multiple admissions, you can use the better offer from one college at and competitor college, if your kids prefers the latter.
just pointing out that simple state vs private $$ comparisons are too simplistic.
yes, there is a pricing difference, however, you get what paid for. our amounts were only slightly higher state schools.
Most colleges offer students a substantial amount of money as part of their package. So it might cost 60k but your daughter will also get 20-30 k
Scholarship. She will just have to accept going to a slightly lesser school. I e Cornell instead of Harvard
But that can actually be a good thing because GPA is the most important thing for grad school. Better to have a 3.8 at William and Mary than a 3.2 at UVA. In other words, she should go to a college where she can get a 3.8, which will also be the college that recruits her with a big scholarship
You should also hire a college counselor to take her through the process. It will be the best 4K you ever spend.
GPA is not the most important thing for grad school. Your exam scores (MCAT, LSAT, etc) are the most important factor. Undergrad pedigree is even more important than GPA.
I have come across a lot of people who went to grad school who could not tie their own shoes. They looked good on paper, had that MBA but also had shit for brains and lacked business sense.
I have come across a lot of people who went to grad school who could not tie their own shoes. They looked good on paper, had that MBA but also had shit for brains and lacked business sense.
It is if you want to be a doctor or lawyer.
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A few points:
Most colleges offer students a substantial amount of money as part of their package. So it might cost 60k but your daughter will also get 20-30 k
Scholarship. She will just have to accept going to a slightly lesser school. I e Cornell instead of Harvard
But that can actually be a good thing because GPA is the most important thing for grad school. Better to have a 3.8 at William and Mary than a 3.2 at UVA. In other words, she should go to a college where she can get a 3.8, which will also be the college that recruits her with a big scholarship
You should also hire a college counselor to take her through the process. It will be the best 4K you ever spend.
GPA is not the most important thing for grad school. Your exam scores (MCAT, LSAT, etc) are the most important factor. Undergrad pedigree is even more important than GPA.
Yeah, in my field low GRE scores are the kiss of death for the good programs. The decisions are typically based on GRE, GPA, undergrad school, letters of recommendation, research experience, and interview performance (if you are lucky enough to get invited for an interivew).
The most expensive would have been UVM, Elmira was 10's of thousands less because of generous financial aid, and Maine Maritime was very inexpensive because of reciprocal agreements among the New England states.
Also worth noting that colleges like Dartmouth and Bowdoin are basically tuition free for families under a certain income. And the income threshold is over $100K a yr.
Of course the catch is that you have to get accepted... no easy task.
Both are productive, happy, self-sufficient adults, who continue to climb the ladder in their respective careers.
And we are not affluent... we were small town public school teachers. But we carried a commitment as parents from the time they were born that we wanted them to follow their dreams and aspirations and we would support them.
Success can be measured in many ways, not just salary. In our view, college is an investment in a child and not a profit / loss ledger.
Success can be measured in many ways, not just salary. In our view, college is an investment in a child and not a profit / loss ledger.
+1
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Success can be measured in many ways, not just salary. In our view, college is an investment in a child and not a profit / loss ledger.
+1
Another +1.
But Ill add: theres no need to spend $250K+ for that experience. You definitely should be taking profit/loss into account when considering the cost of the particular school.
2. if you are a minority in your field in a given college, you will get higher merit based awards: I have 2 girls in technical fields, architecture and electrical/computer engineering, they both got merit awards.
3. I went to a state school, in a lecture hall with a 1000 kids, trying to learn calculus 1,2,3 physics 1,2,3 etc.,often from non-American professors. I struggled until I passed the mandated elimination courses with targeted attrition rates.
they admitted 2000 kids into the program, knowing full well that they would eliminate a lot due lab space and state of the art equipment availability in junior and senior years.
My kids are in private schools, they are both involved with project based learning in small groups. they started taking subjects in their major in their freshman year. both kids had assigned advisors to guide them.
4. Both schools that they are attending have over 90% retention rate within selected major. If you send your kids to a state school, and if the crowded learning situation turns them off from a field that they might otherwise excel at, or they change their major 2,3 times and graduate in 6 years, how much did you really save?
I saw a lot of people dropping out of their initial choices when I attended a state school.
5. once your kid gets multiple admissions, you can use the better offer from one college at and competitor college, if your kids prefers the latter.
just pointing out that simple state vs private $$ comparisons are too simplistic.
yes, there is a pricing difference, however, you get what paid for. our amounts were only slightly higher state schools.
But Ill add: theres no need to spend $250K+ for that experience. You definitely should be taking profit/loss into account when considering the cost of the particular school.
Agree... and I also question the "education" the kids get. They study, they are given projects to complete. They go through an educational obstacle course and in many instances come out on the other side with an education that they could have easily learned on the internet for free.
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In comment 14036502 Vanzetti said:
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A few points:
Most colleges offer students a substantial amount of money as part of their package. So it might cost 60k but your daughter will also get 20-30 k
Scholarship. She will just have to accept going to a slightly lesser school. I e Cornell instead of Harvard
But that can actually be a good thing because GPA is the most important thing for grad school. Better to have a 3.8 at William and Mary than a 3.2 at UVA. In other words, she should go to a college where she can get a 3.8, which will also be the college that recruits her with a big scholarship
You should also hire a college counselor to take her through the process. It will be the best 4K you ever spend.
GPA is not the most important thing for grad school. Your exam scores (MCAT, LSAT, etc) are the most important factor. Undergrad pedigree is even more important than GPA.
Yeah, in my field low GRE scores are the kiss of death for the good programs. The decisions are typically based on GRE, GPA, undergrad school, letters of recommendation, research experience, and interview performance (if you are lucky enough to get invited for an interivew).
Even for other stuff. I dont know if its true but I heard that, at least at one point many years back, Hopkins stopped requiring MCATs.
Myself, if you can get a good read on quality of courses (not always easy) the GPA is higher on the list for acceptance, but for me, nothing beats a face to face.
I plan on sending my kids to a CC and finish at a University. For example if you go to MCC for 2 years transfer to Rutgers they will transfer most if not all credits so you end up paying a fraction of the cost for the same degree.
I plan on sending my kids to a CC and finish at a University. For example if you go to MCC for 2 years transfer to Rutgers they will transfer most if not all credits so you end up paying a fraction of the cost for the same degree.
This is the path I followed in college. Cost effective. Went on to a great career.
Worst part is the electives - only electives you can make a possible argument for - 3 courses - one english (mainly for writing, one math - practical things like mortgages, 401ks, and a basic civics course).
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