has so many wrong things in it, I don't have the time to rip it apart. Let me say that you are football clueless and should root for another team immediately.
And what the hell does the 'S' in DSG stand for? Is it something only a complete asshole would come up with?
I just wanted to be the 200th post on this thread. Â
basically they feel like they currently have a franchise QB for a couple more years, so why use a major asset like the number 2 overall pick to just sit. And wasn't one of the major arguments for drafting a QB about his rookie contract being cheap? You'd be wasting like two years of that value.
Eli at this stage isn’t a top tiered QB. The only aspect of “franchise qb” that applies to him is the cap hit.
that when we stink again like everyone thinks we will, we can have our pick on the next QB. And then we can start talking about how much will be riding on that pick being right, how it wasn’t a good class to have the top pick, and how the franchise will be set back 50 years if it’s wrong.
Good times BBI.
QB class sucks this year in college. Look to 2020.
first team snaps!!! While we are asleep at the wheel. No game plan in the first preseason game. 3 bad runs by Barkley and we let our Def Coordinator take time off when we need to get ready for the Lions!
/sarcasm off
This should be NGT.
RE: RE: Quarterbacks taken in the first round since 2007: Â
2017
2: Mitchell Trubisky
10: Patrick Mahomes
12: Deshaun Watson
Out of that list of 29 Quarterbacks taken in the first round, how many can truly be considered a successful franchise QB? For every 1, there are two or three more failures/busts.
There are no guarantees. Picking number 2 doesn't guarantee you anything.
But this is exactly the point. Good QBs are very hard to come by. Yes, picking one at #2 doesn't guarantee you will get a good one. But the list gets a lot uglier after that.
What makes the #2 pick so special is the Giants had their choice of any QB except Mayfield, and if they loved Mayfield they were close enough to at least open up legitimate conversations to get him. Odds are, in the future, they are going to have no where near the opportunity. They are going to have to settle for someone falling to them, or offer typically a huge ransom to trade up. And most likely if someone the actually like might fall to them, very often another team who also likes him will trade up to steal the guy from you. So picking later, it is much less likely your top QB will fall to your pick and even if he does, the odds are even worse that he will pan out. You are at the mercy of the draft unless you are willing to invest several picks to trade up, but even if you do get lucky and your guy is there, odds of a QB panning out get even worse after the first one or two picks.
This is why when you have your chance, you need to think real hard about pulling the trigger. Teams spend years praying for the opportunity the Giants just passed up on.
I get it if none of the QBs in this draft are any good. But DG was paid a lot of money to get that evaluation right and it was likely the most critical decision of his career, which many GMs will never have such an opportunity. There were legitimate prospects available (no one would have said Darnold was a reach for a need), and the initial look for two of the prospects looked pretty darn good. So that along with Webb looking like shit was not encouraging. But I guess we will have to wait and see how it continues to unfold.
Bravo Uber, nice way to encapsulate what many here are thinking/feeling.
and they determined not one was worthy. I wanted to draft Darnold, but if the conviction was not there but it was for another prospect, then I'll defer the opinion for now.
We'll have to wait and watch it play out, well beyond one exhibition game. There's a good chance NYG will get another opportunity high in the draft, and there's also the element of Shurmur owning some pelts in deploying less than stellar QBs with success.
and they determined not one was worthy. I wanted to draft Darnold, but if the conviction was not there but it was for another prospect, then I'll defer the opinion for now.
We'll have to wait and watch it play out, well beyond one exhibition game. There's a good chance NYG will get another opportunity high in the draft, and there's also the element of Shurmur owning some pelts in deploying less than stellar QBs with success.
Quote:
there's also the element of Shurmur owning some pelts in deploying less than stellar QBs with success.
A very strong element, imv
My guess is the S is for you so Giants34 can watch Â
And while his post takes some unnecessary extremes (like saying DG only looked at 2 games to assess Eli and some others), what he wrote could be how this whole thing shakes out.
Or he could be wrong just like many others here...
Yes, not one strong enough to pass on a franchise QB Â
I'll talk football when it is actually pertinent, like I've already done on this thread in quite a few posts.
Why should I try to validate the position of posters who use ridiculous monikers and the like? DSG?? Great. Let me engage in a serious discussion with a fuckhead who has some secret bash against Gettleman?
Why would I engage in serious football discussion with Les who call people "fanboys", or bw who calls the front office "Jints Central"?
I want focus of those posts to be put squarely on the inane aspect they bring. They don't deserve to be looked at any further from an analysis standpoint.
But then again - if talking football is so important to you, why make absolutely disgusting comments about "goosestepping" instead of focusing just on football? And calling out others for responding to morons?
Because you do exactly the same thing you accuse others of and don't even see it.
RE: Yes, not one strong enough to pass on a franchise QB Â
should one present himself, but there's more than one way to build a championship caliber football team, especially in this watered down era.
Jon -You are 100% correct with that statement.
I firmly believe that the league is circling back around towards offenses built on strong running games.
Why? Because I just don't believe colleges are producing pro ready QB's at the same rate it used to.
Why? Spread offense and quarterbacks struggling to make the transition to the pros due to not being able to read defenses as well, and therefore not having the ability to audible at the line of scrimmage out of a bad play. Also, having more limited options due to having not taken snaps from under center.
are playing the QB's a lot earlier than they used to, even the high drafted ones.
Sitting a guy like Aaron Rodgers doesn't happen anymore. I'm not sure how much more pro ready QB's were years ago, most of them got to sit and learn for a year or two.
Teams aren't waiting to throw the highly touted QB into the fire anymore. Not sure why, probably many factors at play here, one being that there have been so many bad QB's recently that teams can't afford to be patient.
A lot of it gets blamed on the college game, but the NFL having zero patience and not letting guys sit and learn is just as big of a problem.
are playing the QB's a lot earlier than they used to, even the high drafted ones.
Sitting a guy like Aaron Rodgers doesn't happen anymore. I'm not sure how much more pro ready QB's were years ago, most of them got to sit and learn for a year or two.
Teams aren't waiting to throw the highly touted QB into the fire anymore. Not sure why, probably many factors at play here, one being that there have been so many bad QB's recently that teams can't afford to be patient.
A lot of it gets blamed on the college game, but the NFL having zero patience and not letting guys sit and learn is just as big of a problem.
I would counter that the teams that throw their highly drafted QB's into the fire right away do so because they don't have an established QB to sit him behind to begin with.
If Darnold was drafted by us, he absolutely would have sat this year. It's a situation to situation, team by team basis.
that if you have a franchise QB, it's a hell of a lot easier to build a championship caliber team than if you don't have one.
In any one given year, you can build a team a few different ways to win a title. Still much easier to do it if you have the QB in place than if you don't. You're way behind right from the start if you dont have the franchise QB in place.
I don't see any way to build a championship contender consistently over a number of years unless you have a franchise QB. If you look around at the teams that have had sustained success and had a legit chance to win a title every year, every single one of them has had a franchise QB.
Again, we have a franchise QB that the powers that be.... Â
can still perform at that level for another couple years.
What's wrong with building a team around that? Because it makes it that much easier when the new guys does finally step in. With a great team around him.
Certainly your odds improve with the franchise QB Â
but the brass felt that guy wasn't there. It makes more sense to me to pick the best player in that case and stay true to your draft board, rather than reach and gamble on a prospect who is probably 50/50 to become a plus NFL QB.
And, this is coming from one who touted Darnold for 18 months prior to the draft.
are playing the QB's a lot earlier than they used to, even the high drafted ones.
Sitting a guy like Aaron Rodgers doesn't happen anymore. I'm not sure how much more pro ready QB's were years ago, most of them got to sit and learn for a year or two.
Teams aren't waiting to throw the highly touted QB into the fire anymore. Not sure why, probably many factors at play here, one being that there have been so many bad QB's recently that teams can't afford to be patient.
A lot of it gets blamed on the college game, but the NFL having zero patience and not letting guys sit and learn is just as big of a problem.
I would counter that the teams that throw their highly drafted QB's into the fire right away do so because they don't have an established QB to sit him behind to begin with.
If Darnold was drafted by us, he absolutely would have sat this year. It's a situation to situation, team by team basis.
I made that point in my post above, teams can't afford to be patient because they have such shit at QB in the first place.
And its usually the same teams doing it regularly. My biggest fear is turning into one of those teams. The teams that have been laughingstocks for a while have one thing in common: instability at the quarterback position.
I'm worried the Giants are going to wind up in that position soon.
Part of the appeal with Darnold for me was that I thought it was a perfect situation for the Giants. He could sit a year and learn behind Eli. Let Eli make one last run at it this year, then let him go in the 2019 off-season, save a bunch of money on the cap, and start Darnold next year.
If Webb or Lauletta don't pan out, the Giants will likely be one of those teams that has no choice but to throw a QB into the fire early on, which I don't believe is a good idea for any team.
Last year was a perfect storm of suck and injuries and just awful luck. The Giants had much more talent than a 3-13 team, just everything went wrong all at the same time. Chances are they won't pick that high for a long time. I would have used that to try to set up the franchise with a long term answer at QB.
As I said earlier, DG made big bets on Eli and Webb. I hope and pray he hits on those bets. I don't want another 1992-1999 situation.
RE: Again, we have a franchise QB that the powers that be.... Â
can still perform at that level for another couple years.
What's wrong with building a team around that? Because it makes it that much easier when the new guys does finally step in. With a great team around him.
They certainly are banking on that. I think it's a very, very risky gamble. Eli needs to bounce back in a huge way. He's not young by any stretch and just has not played good football at all in a while.
I hope I'm wrong about Eli, but I fear that his best football is way behind him.
Bringing in Darnold would not have been throwing in the towel on 2018, either. Let's not forget that this is a team that people were picking to go to the Super Bowl last year. Obviously Saquon is a special talent, but they still could have gone for it this year while having a potential franchise QB waiting in the wings.
DG made a big bet on Eli and Webb and if he's wrong it will almost certainly cost him his job.
I think his age, his health, and his physical decline.... Â
He looks to me like he can still make all the throws. I don't see a physical decline like others.
Also, he just turned 37. He played all of last season at 36. They way people talk about him, you'd think he was turning 40.
Not to mention he's coming off two career years in 2014 and 2015. His only down years were under McAdoo as head coach, and we all saw how bad that offensive design was.
He's not coming off two career years in 2014 and 2015. First, they were 3 and 4 years ago. Second, those weren't career years - the team went 6-10 each season. I know that's not all on him, but stats are for losers.
Besides, even if he was coming off 5 straight MVP years it would be prudent to actively be trying to replace him with someone younger and cheaper. The Giants aren't the only team in this position. Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers - all these guys are playing well but the end could come at any moment. Their respective teams should actively be looking for replacements.
One thing that was telling was the recent interview given by Louis Riddick. Besides sounding profoundly smart and qualified for the Giants' GM position, Riddick also implied that he thought Eli's time might be done.
Here's a basic fact: though he thankfully appears to be beating his illness, Gettleman is 67 years old. The moment he was hired he was not long for the Giants' GM position. His planning horizon isn't likely to extend as far out as Riddick's would have. I know many would disagree but I believe Gettleman's hiring occurred in part because he would keep Eli at QB whereas Riddick might not have.
The Giants are all in for these next couple years. After that - uncertainty.
But I really wish he had average time to drop back and throw the ball. Having a defender in his face after about 2 seconds is going to make almost any QB look crappy. Maybe this new Oline will work out.
I agree that keeping Eli around was an organizational decision Â
made clear - directly or indirectly - to both Gettleman and Shurmur during the interview process. If you're holding Eli to something close to the standard he set in his prime, he played a grand total of one good game last season out of 15. I hope I'm wrong, but I think he's done. Forget the next 10 seasons, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Darnold outplays him THIS season.
I still think Darnold's poor mechanics will be exposed... Â
He's not coming off two career years in 2014 and 2015. First, they were 3 and 4 years ago. Second, those weren't career years - the team went 6-10 each season. I know that's not all on him, but stats are for losers.
Besides, even if he was coming off 5 straight MVP years it would be prudent to actively be trying to replace him with someone younger and cheaper. The Giants aren't the only team in this position. Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers - all these guys are playing well but the end could come at any moment. Their respective teams should actively be looking for replacements.
One thing that was telling was the recent interview given by Louis Riddick. Besides sounding profoundly smart and qualified for the Giants' GM position, Riddick also implied that he thought Eli's time might be done.
Here's a basic fact: though he thankfully appears to be beating his illness, Gettleman is 67 years old. The moment he was hired he was not long for the Giants' GM position. His planning horizon isn't likely to extend as far out as Riddick's would have. I know many would disagree but I believe Gettleman's hiring occurred in part because he would keep Eli at QB whereas Riddick might not have.
The Giants are all in for these next couple years. After that - uncertainty.
Stats may be for losers, but he had the highest TD total of his career by far in 2015, and 2nd highest yardage total of his career. We're talking physical decline here, and in that season, he showed he had a very live arm.
Yeah, we were 6-10, but we lost 7 games when we were either tied or gained the lead in the final two minutes. That was a defensive failure, and that's what they addressed in 2016, and they rebounded. Eli's play sunk because they left the O-line as is/was, and McAdoo's scheme was absolute shit. That was not coincidence that Eli's and the offense's play fell off a cliff after Coughlin left. I think a better scheme (remains to be seen) this year you'll see a huge bounceback. All we can do is wait and see.
Now I'm not talking the next ten years, I'm talking the next two years. He can still win, and he can still make all the throws. Give him just average protection and a better scheme, and you will see a successful offense/QB in 2018.
Now I'm not talking the next ten years, I'm talking the next two years. He can still win, and he can still make all the throws. Give him just average protection and a better scheme, and you will see a successful offense/QB in 2018.
On a good team I think Eli can still play at a Super Bowl level. Unfortunately I don't think this is or will be a good team in the next two years. Not Super Bowl level, anyway. And then...what?
I see the path they chose in going with Eli this season, and possibly next if he returns to a higher level of play. But, we absolutely need to stay aware and strike when the opportunity arises to acquire his replacement. It's time.
Now I'm not talking the next ten years, I'm talking the next two years. He can still win, and he can still make all the throws. Give him just average protection and a better scheme, and you will see a successful offense/QB in 2018.
On a good team I think Eli can still play at a Super Bowl level. Unfortunately I don't think this is or will be a good team in the next two years. Not Super Bowl level, anyway. And then...what?
My hope is that at the end of two years we will have a strong offensive and defensive line, and running game. So that the new QB can step in and not be asked to do much. A much more comfortable situation. That is my hope.
Now I'm not talking the next ten years, I'm talking the next two years. He can still win, and he can still make all the throws. Give him just average protection and a better scheme, and you will see a successful offense/QB in 2018.
On a good team I think Eli can still play at a Super Bowl level. Unfortunately I don't think this is or will be a good team in the next two years. Not Super Bowl level, anyway. And then...what?
My hope is that at the end of two years we will have a strong offensive and defensive line, and running game. So that the new QB can step in and not be asked to do much. A much more comfortable situation. That is my hope.
Then the search begins...
Hopefully its not filled with paying Case Keenums or Kirk Cousins exhorbitant sums. Or watching Brown, Kanell, Graham, Palmer, Collins flounder for 10 years. Or even worse, a run like the Jets. O'Donnell, Foley, Testaverde, Lucas, Pennigton, Bollinger, Sanchez, Smith, Fitzpatrick. Not that easy to find the guy.
RE: I agree that keeping Eli around was an organizational decision Â
made clear - directly or indirectly - to both Gettleman and Shurmur during the interview process. If you're holding Eli to something close to the standard he set in his prime, he played a grand total of one good game last season out of 15. I hope I'm wrong, but I think he's done. Forget the next 10 seasons, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Darnold outplays him THIS season.
It wouldnt surprise you if darnold out plays Eli this season?
It would shock the crap out of me.
I wanted mayfield or Rosen. Darnold will be an average player in the nfl in my view.
I’m more curious to know if the giants would have drafted a qb if only two hot shots existed rather than four. For some reason I feel like they over thought things because there were so many qbs in this draft. Shit they even said as much after the draft. That scares me. Of course no one in the media asked the million dollar question..if all the scouts and coaches loved a different qb and there was no consensus, didn’t you guys grade all the qbs and if so, didn’t one of the qbs still have a higher grade than everyone else?
We might never know. But the stupid questions the media talkies asked gettleman brought nothing to the table.
More than likely it was a combination of things. They still love Eli, they really loved Barkley, and they weren’t Gaga over any of the qbs. It is what it is... this topic has already pushed me further and further away from even talking football with many because it’s such a beaten to death topic and it’s not even September year 1 yet. It’s also a popular or easy talking point for idiots. Many here share good insight. Many here don’t.
When Eli is done & if Webb/Lauletta aren't the answer, Â
I have no doubt that the Giants, whoever the GM is, will move heaven & earth to get a franchise QB, be it trading up in the draft or FA.
And that's the problem...we didn't have to move heaven and earth. The guy was sitting there for us, and at the draft he wasn't old enough to buy a beer.
Yeah, stupid us. Took the best player in the draft Â
I have no doubt that the Giants, whoever the GM is, will move heaven & earth to get a franchise QB, be it trading up in the draft or FA.
And that's the problem...we didn't have to move heaven and earth. The guy was sitting there for us, and at the draft he wasn't old enough to buy a beer.
We'll see. I think Darnold will be good, but a franchise QB? That's TBD. I'm not getting worked up over one preseason game.
RE: RE: When Eli is done & if Webb/Lauletta aren't the answer, Â
I have no doubt that the Giants, whoever the GM is, will move heaven & earth to get a franchise QB, be it trading up in the draft or FA.
And that's the problem...we didn't have to move heaven and earth. The guy was sitting there for us, and at the draft he wasn't old enough to buy a beer.
Eh, what did we give up for Eli? What did the Redskins give up for RGIII? What did the Eagles give up for Wentz? The Redskins traded all that for RGIII & he was essentially a bust, the more successful QB was taken in the 4th round.
I think both sides of the argument are getting too worked up. If there is a QB NYG covets, they’ll trade up for him, fans will be outraged & it will turn out they didn’t give up much. That doesn’t concern me.
are playing the QB's a lot earlier than they used to, even the high drafted ones.
Sitting a guy like Aaron Rodgers doesn't happen anymore. I'm not sure how much more pro ready QB's were years ago, most of them got to sit and learn for a year or two.
Teams aren't waiting to throw the highly touted QB into the fire anymore. Not sure why, probably many factors at play here, one being that there have been so many bad QB's recently that teams can't afford to be patient.
A lot of it gets blamed on the college game, but the NFL having zero patience and not letting guys sit and learn is just as big of a problem.
I would counter that the teams that throw their highly drafted QB's into the fire right away do so because they don't have an established QB to sit him behind to begin with.
If Darnold was drafted by us, he absolutely would have sat this year. It's a situation to situation, team by team basis.
Absolutely true. The Packers had Favre who was strong as an ox. But they knew they had to move on to a younger, and smarter QB eventually. Rodgers was a top prospect, a great talent who got all the time he needed to work out ever single kink. He was a good QB with the attitude of a seasoned vet his first season. By year two he was great
Another thing to take into consideration, a lot of these young hotshots coming out of college probably wouldn't even accept sitting 3 years. Somebody like Rosen and Mayfield may put up a stink
Nothing is ever stared down. Sanchez locked on. Geno locked on. Darnold scans the entire field extremely well and makes very fast decisions as to the best place to put the football.
And what the hell does the 'S' in DSG stand for? Is it something only a complete asshole would come up with?
Stay grounded and shorten it up...less is more on this type of minefield.
That said, I hope Barkley has a long successful career here.
Eli at this stage isn’t a top tiered QB. The only aspect of “franchise qb” that applies to him is the cap hit.
Good times BBI.
QB class sucks this year in college. Look to 2020.
/sarcasm off
This should be NGT.
Quote:
2007
1: JaMarcus Russell, Raiders
22: Brady Quinn, Browns
2008
3: Matt Ryan, Falcons
18: Joe Flacco, Ravens
2009
1: Matthew Stafford, Lions
5: Mark Sanchez, Jets
17: Josh Freeman, Buccaneers
2010
1: Sam Bradford, Rams
25: Tim Tebow, Broncos
2011
1: Cam Newton, Panthers
8: Jake Locker, Titans
10: Blaine Gabbert, Jaguars
12: Christian Ponder, Vikings
2012
1: Andrew Luck, Colts
2: Robert Griffin III, Redskins
8: Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins
22: Brandon Weeden, Browns
2013
16: EJ Manuel, Bills
2014
3: Blake Bortles, Jaguars
22: Johnny Manziel, Browns
32: Teddy Bridgewater, Vikings
2015
1: Jameis Winston, Buccaneers
2: Marcus Mariota, Titans
2016
1: Jared Goff, Rams
2: Carson Wentz, Eagles
26: Paxton Lynch, Broncos
2017
2: Mitchell Trubisky
10: Patrick Mahomes
12: Deshaun Watson
Out of that list of 29 Quarterbacks taken in the first round, how many can truly be considered a successful franchise QB? For every 1, there are two or three more failures/busts.
There are no guarantees. Picking number 2 doesn't guarantee you anything.
But this is exactly the point. Good QBs are very hard to come by. Yes, picking one at #2 doesn't guarantee you will get a good one. But the list gets a lot uglier after that.
What makes the #2 pick so special is the Giants had their choice of any QB except Mayfield, and if they loved Mayfield they were close enough to at least open up legitimate conversations to get him. Odds are, in the future, they are going to have no where near the opportunity. They are going to have to settle for someone falling to them, or offer typically a huge ransom to trade up. And most likely if someone the actually like might fall to them, very often another team who also likes him will trade up to steal the guy from you. So picking later, it is much less likely your top QB will fall to your pick and even if he does, the odds are even worse that he will pan out. You are at the mercy of the draft unless you are willing to invest several picks to trade up, but even if you do get lucky and your guy is there, odds of a QB panning out get even worse after the first one or two picks.
This is why when you have your chance, you need to think real hard about pulling the trigger. Teams spend years praying for the opportunity the Giants just passed up on.
I get it if none of the QBs in this draft are any good. But DG was paid a lot of money to get that evaluation right and it was likely the most critical decision of his career, which many GMs will never have such an opportunity. There were legitimate prospects available (no one would have said Darnold was a reach for a need), and the initial look for two of the prospects looked pretty darn good. So that along with Webb looking like shit was not encouraging. But I guess we will have to wait and see how it continues to unfold.
Bravo Uber, nice way to encapsulate what many here are thinking/feeling.
He hasn't had a kind word to say about Gettleman and continues to use the "S". For what I'm thinking is some fucked up slam on him.
For those who were wondering, Gettleman's middle name is Alan.
We'll have to wait and watch it play out, well beyond one exhibition game. There's a good chance NYG will get another opportunity high in the draft, and there's also the element of Shurmur owning some pelts in deploying less than stellar QBs with success.
We'll have to wait and watch it play out, well beyond one exhibition game. There's a good chance NYG will get another opportunity high in the draft, and there's also the element of Shurmur owning some pelts in deploying less than stellar QBs with success.
there's also the element of Shurmur owning some pelts in deploying less than stellar QBs with success.
A very strong element, imv
And while his post takes some unnecessary extremes (like saying DG only looked at 2 games to assess Eli and some others), what he wrote could be how this whole thing shakes out.
Or he could be wrong just like many others here...
Jimmy Googs : 8:49 am : link : reply
you throw a fit again about it.
The ultimate contrarian who pops into threads to discuss how others are always on threads.
Get over the knucklehead stuff and talk football...
I'll talk football when it is actually pertinent, like I've already done on this thread in quite a few posts.
Why should I try to validate the position of posters who use ridiculous monikers and the like? DSG?? Great. Let me engage in a serious discussion with a fuckhead who has some secret bash against Gettleman?
Why would I engage in serious football discussion with Les who call people "fanboys", or bw who calls the front office "Jints Central"?
I want focus of those posts to be put squarely on the inane aspect they bring. They don't deserve to be looked at any further from an analysis standpoint.
But then again - if talking football is so important to you, why make absolutely disgusting comments about "goosestepping" instead of focusing just on football? And calling out others for responding to morons?
Because you do exactly the same thing you accuse others of and don't even see it.
Quote:
should one present himself, but there's more than one way to build a championship caliber football team, especially in this watered down era.
Jon -You are 100% correct with that statement.
I firmly believe that the league is circling back around towards offenses built on strong running games.
Why? Because I just don't believe colleges are producing pro ready QB's at the same rate it used to.
Why? Spread offense and quarterbacks struggling to make the transition to the pros due to not being able to read defenses as well, and therefore not having the ability to audible at the line of scrimmage out of a bad play. Also, having more limited options due to having not taken snaps from under center.
Sitting a guy like Aaron Rodgers doesn't happen anymore. I'm not sure how much more pro ready QB's were years ago, most of them got to sit and learn for a year or two.
Teams aren't waiting to throw the highly touted QB into the fire anymore. Not sure why, probably many factors at play here, one being that there have been so many bad QB's recently that teams can't afford to be patient.
A lot of it gets blamed on the college game, but the NFL having zero patience and not letting guys sit and learn is just as big of a problem.
Sitting a guy like Aaron Rodgers doesn't happen anymore. I'm not sure how much more pro ready QB's were years ago, most of them got to sit and learn for a year or two.
Teams aren't waiting to throw the highly touted QB into the fire anymore. Not sure why, probably many factors at play here, one being that there have been so many bad QB's recently that teams can't afford to be patient.
A lot of it gets blamed on the college game, but the NFL having zero patience and not letting guys sit and learn is just as big of a problem.
I would counter that the teams that throw their highly drafted QB's into the fire right away do so because they don't have an established QB to sit him behind to begin with.
If Darnold was drafted by us, he absolutely would have sat this year. It's a situation to situation, team by team basis.
In any one given year, you can build a team a few different ways to win a title. Still much easier to do it if you have the QB in place than if you don't. You're way behind right from the start if you dont have the franchise QB in place.
I don't see any way to build a championship contender consistently over a number of years unless you have a franchise QB. If you look around at the teams that have had sustained success and had a legit chance to win a title every year, every single one of them has had a franchise QB.
What's wrong with building a team around that? Because it makes it that much easier when the new guys does finally step in. With a great team around him.
And, this is coming from one who touted Darnold for 18 months prior to the draft.
Quote:
are playing the QB's a lot earlier than they used to, even the high drafted ones.
Sitting a guy like Aaron Rodgers doesn't happen anymore. I'm not sure how much more pro ready QB's were years ago, most of them got to sit and learn for a year or two.
Teams aren't waiting to throw the highly touted QB into the fire anymore. Not sure why, probably many factors at play here, one being that there have been so many bad QB's recently that teams can't afford to be patient.
A lot of it gets blamed on the college game, but the NFL having zero patience and not letting guys sit and learn is just as big of a problem.
I would counter that the teams that throw their highly drafted QB's into the fire right away do so because they don't have an established QB to sit him behind to begin with.
If Darnold was drafted by us, he absolutely would have sat this year. It's a situation to situation, team by team basis.
I made that point in my post above, teams can't afford to be patient because they have such shit at QB in the first place.
And its usually the same teams doing it regularly. My biggest fear is turning into one of those teams. The teams that have been laughingstocks for a while have one thing in common: instability at the quarterback position.
I'm worried the Giants are going to wind up in that position soon.
Part of the appeal with Darnold for me was that I thought it was a perfect situation for the Giants. He could sit a year and learn behind Eli. Let Eli make one last run at it this year, then let him go in the 2019 off-season, save a bunch of money on the cap, and start Darnold next year.
If Webb or Lauletta don't pan out, the Giants will likely be one of those teams that has no choice but to throw a QB into the fire early on, which I don't believe is a good idea for any team.
Last year was a perfect storm of suck and injuries and just awful luck. The Giants had much more talent than a 3-13 team, just everything went wrong all at the same time. Chances are they won't pick that high for a long time. I would have used that to try to set up the franchise with a long term answer at QB.
As I said earlier, DG made big bets on Eli and Webb. I hope and pray he hits on those bets. I don't want another 1992-1999 situation.
What's wrong with building a team around that? Because it makes it that much easier when the new guys does finally step in. With a great team around him.
They certainly are banking on that. I think it's a very, very risky gamble. Eli needs to bounce back in a huge way. He's not young by any stretch and just has not played good football at all in a while.
I hope I'm wrong about Eli, but I fear that his best football is way behind him.
Bringing in Darnold would not have been throwing in the towel on 2018, either. Let's not forget that this is a team that people were picking to go to the Super Bowl last year. Obviously Saquon is a special talent, but they still could have gone for it this year while having a potential franchise QB waiting in the wings.
DG made a big bet on Eli and Webb and if he's wrong it will almost certainly cost him his job.
He looks to me like he can still make all the throws. I don't see a physical decline like others.
Also, he just turned 37. He played all of last season at 36. They way people talk about him, you'd think he was turning 40.
Not to mention he's coming off two career years in 2014 and 2015. His only down years were under McAdoo as head coach, and we all saw how bad that offensive design was.
Besides, even if he was coming off 5 straight MVP years it would be prudent to actively be trying to replace him with someone younger and cheaper. The Giants aren't the only team in this position. Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers - all these guys are playing well but the end could come at any moment. Their respective teams should actively be looking for replacements.
One thing that was telling was the recent interview given by Louis Riddick. Besides sounding profoundly smart and qualified for the Giants' GM position, Riddick also implied that he thought Eli's time might be done.
Here's a basic fact: though he thankfully appears to be beating his illness, Gettleman is 67 years old. The moment he was hired he was not long for the Giants' GM position. His planning horizon isn't likely to extend as far out as Riddick's would have. I know many would disagree but I believe Gettleman's hiring occurred in part because he would keep Eli at QB whereas Riddick might not have.
The Giants are all in for these next couple years. After that - uncertainty.
Besides, even if he was coming off 5 straight MVP years it would be prudent to actively be trying to replace him with someone younger and cheaper. The Giants aren't the only team in this position. Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rivers - all these guys are playing well but the end could come at any moment. Their respective teams should actively be looking for replacements.
One thing that was telling was the recent interview given by Louis Riddick. Besides sounding profoundly smart and qualified for the Giants' GM position, Riddick also implied that he thought Eli's time might be done.
Here's a basic fact: though he thankfully appears to be beating his illness, Gettleman is 67 years old. The moment he was hired he was not long for the Giants' GM position. His planning horizon isn't likely to extend as far out as Riddick's would have. I know many would disagree but I believe Gettleman's hiring occurred in part because he would keep Eli at QB whereas Riddick might not have.
The Giants are all in for these next couple years. After that - uncertainty.
Stats may be for losers, but he had the highest TD total of his career by far in 2015, and 2nd highest yardage total of his career. We're talking physical decline here, and in that season, he showed he had a very live arm.
Yeah, we were 6-10, but we lost 7 games when we were either tied or gained the lead in the final two minutes. That was a defensive failure, and that's what they addressed in 2016, and they rebounded. Eli's play sunk because they left the O-line as is/was, and McAdoo's scheme was absolute shit. That was not coincidence that Eli's and the offense's play fell off a cliff after Coughlin left. I think a better scheme (remains to be seen) this year you'll see a huge bounceback. All we can do is wait and see.
Now I'm not talking the next ten years, I'm talking the next two years. He can still win, and he can still make all the throws. Give him just average protection and a better scheme, and you will see a successful offense/QB in 2018.
On a good team I think Eli can still play at a Super Bowl level. Unfortunately I don't think this is or will be a good team in the next two years. Not Super Bowl level, anyway. And then...what?
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Now I'm not talking the next ten years, I'm talking the next two years. He can still win, and he can still make all the throws. Give him just average protection and a better scheme, and you will see a successful offense/QB in 2018.
On a good team I think Eli can still play at a Super Bowl level. Unfortunately I don't think this is or will be a good team in the next two years. Not Super Bowl level, anyway. And then...what?
My hope is that at the end of two years we will have a strong offensive and defensive line, and running game. So that the new QB can step in and not be asked to do much. A much more comfortable situation. That is my hope.
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I completely agree with this statement:
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Now I'm not talking the next ten years, I'm talking the next two years. He can still win, and he can still make all the throws. Give him just average protection and a better scheme, and you will see a successful offense/QB in 2018.
On a good team I think Eli can still play at a Super Bowl level. Unfortunately I don't think this is or will be a good team in the next two years. Not Super Bowl level, anyway. And then...what?
My hope is that at the end of two years we will have a strong offensive and defensive line, and running game. So that the new QB can step in and not be asked to do much. A much more comfortable situation. That is my hope.
Then the search begins...
Hopefully its not filled with paying Case Keenums or Kirk Cousins exhorbitant sums. Or watching Brown, Kanell, Graham, Palmer, Collins flounder for 10 years. Or even worse, a run like the Jets. O'Donnell, Foley, Testaverde, Lucas, Pennigton, Bollinger, Sanchez, Smith, Fitzpatrick. Not that easy to find the guy.
It wouldnt surprise you if darnold out plays Eli this season?
It would shock the crap out of me.
I wanted mayfield or Rosen. Darnold will be an average player in the nfl in my view.
I’m more curious to know if the giants would have drafted a qb if only two hot shots existed rather than four. For some reason I feel like they over thought things because there were so many qbs in this draft. Shit they even said as much after the draft. That scares me. Of course no one in the media asked the million dollar question..if all the scouts and coaches loved a different qb and there was no consensus, didn’t you guys grade all the qbs and if so, didn’t one of the qbs still have a higher grade than everyone else?
We might never know. But the stupid questions the media talkies asked gettleman brought nothing to the table.
More than likely it was a combination of things. They still love Eli, they really loved Barkley, and they weren’t Gaga over any of the qbs. It is what it is... this topic has already pushed me further and further away from even talking football with many because it’s such a beaten to death topic and it’s not even September year 1 yet. It’s also a popular or easy talking point for idiots. Many here share good insight. Many here don’t.
And that's the problem...we didn't have to move heaven and earth. The guy was sitting there for us, and at the draft he wasn't old enough to buy a beer.
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I have no doubt that the Giants, whoever the GM is, will move heaven & earth to get a franchise QB, be it trading up in the draft or FA.
And that's the problem...we didn't have to move heaven and earth. The guy was sitting there for us, and at the draft he wasn't old enough to buy a beer.
We'll see. I think Darnold will be good, but a franchise QB? That's TBD. I'm not getting worked up over one preseason game.
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I have no doubt that the Giants, whoever the GM is, will move heaven & earth to get a franchise QB, be it trading up in the draft or FA.
And that's the problem...we didn't have to move heaven and earth. The guy was sitting there for us, and at the draft he wasn't old enough to buy a beer.
Eh, what did we give up for Eli? What did the Redskins give up for RGIII? What did the Eagles give up for Wentz? The Redskins traded all that for RGIII & he was essentially a bust, the more successful QB was taken in the 4th round.
I think both sides of the argument are getting too worked up. If there is a QB NYG covets, they’ll trade up for him, fans will be outraged & it will turn out they didn’t give up much. That doesn’t concern me.
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are playing the QB's a lot earlier than they used to, even the high drafted ones.
Sitting a guy like Aaron Rodgers doesn't happen anymore. I'm not sure how much more pro ready QB's were years ago, most of them got to sit and learn for a year or two.
Teams aren't waiting to throw the highly touted QB into the fire anymore. Not sure why, probably many factors at play here, one being that there have been so many bad QB's recently that teams can't afford to be patient.
A lot of it gets blamed on the college game, but the NFL having zero patience and not letting guys sit and learn is just as big of a problem.
I would counter that the teams that throw their highly drafted QB's into the fire right away do so because they don't have an established QB to sit him behind to begin with.
If Darnold was drafted by us, he absolutely would have sat this year. It's a situation to situation, team by team basis.
Absolutely true. The Packers had Favre who was strong as an ox. But they knew they had to move on to a younger, and smarter QB eventually. Rodgers was a top prospect, a great talent who got all the time he needed to work out ever single kink. He was a good QB with the attitude of a seasoned vet his first season. By year two he was great
Another thing to take into consideration, a lot of these young hotshots coming out of college probably wouldn't even accept sitting 3 years. Somebody like Rosen and Mayfield may put up a stink
Josh Norman impressed by Darnold - ( New Window )