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TE Depth

Mark from Jersey : 8/14/2018 7:01 pm
I re-watch a lot of the first pre-season game and was not impressed at all with Adams or any of the TE hopefuls that played Thursday night.

I do not want to be one of those BBI posters that is overly critical after watching one pre-season game but I will certainly be looking at their performance closer against Detroit & NYJ.

I feel like adding to this position is critical, given that Smith is no where near guaranteed to make this roster. I almost feel its more important to see Smith make a few good blocks and catches over the next few PS games than it is to see Adams or the other TE perform adequately...this simply based on my unprofessional opinion that Smith has more upside than any of the TE behind the starters.

TE would be a position I would look at closely following cuts right behind FS & CB. At this point I would vote for EE, RE, SS, and Waiver pick up.
Adams is a very good blocker, still very young and has the size and  
Anakim : 8/14/2018 7:13 pm : link
speed you want in the position. What else do you want for a #3 TE?
I think his blocking was poor  
Mark from Jersey : 8/14/2018 7:31 pm : link
Game 1. Hands were also poor.

I understand his value to this team is more for special teams & blocking. I will look to see if he improves games 2 & 3...possibly just needed to knock off some rust.
The #3 TE is hardly critical  
BillT : 8/14/2018 7:52 pm : link
With Engram and Ellison as the 1/2. Also, Adams got chances at a lot of badly thrown balls from Webb. He's gotten consistently good notices through camp. I think he will be just fine for his role.
I suspect we'll be looking for a FB more than a TE.  
yatqb : 8/14/2018 7:54 pm : link
I'm not convinced about Smith.
I thought the day would never come when we are worried about the  
Ivan15 : 8/15/2018 12:14 am : link
#3 TE.
Funny  
USAF NYG Fan : 8/15/2018 5:38 am : link
I feel that this is the best TE situation overall the Giants have had in a long time.
RE: Funny  
Tuckrule : 8/15/2018 7:09 am : link
In comment 14039370 USAF NYG Fan said:
Quote:
I feel that this is the best TE situation overall the Giants have had in a long time.


I agree with this. Adams as a 3 is a great. He’s a proven blocker and I feel like he didn’t have a poor showing. In fact he held his blocks rather well on a few runs. Engram and Ellison is as solid a 1 2 as you will see in the nfl
...  
christian : 8/15/2018 8:16 am : link
The 3rd tight end is pretty critical if the indications are true and the base offense is a a 2 TE set.

Adams isn't impressive, but also Ellison has a tremendous amount to prove. He's never produced starter type numbers. Even with Shurmur in Minnesota his production doesn't jump off the sheet.
I'm not sure..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/15/2018 8:29 am : link
of the hands part, but nearly everyone who graded Adams felt differently about his blocking:

Quote:
think his blocking was poor
Mark from Jersey : 8/14/2018 7:31 pm : link : reply
Game 1. Hands were also poor.

I understand his value to this team is more for special teams & blocking. I will look to see if he improves games 2 & 3...possibly just needed to knock off some rust.


He graded out as one of their best blockers in game one and had notable blocks on the TD run and a couple other runs to his side.

While you can be concerned about depth, it might be best to understand what you watched first.
RE: ...  
njm : 8/15/2018 8:47 am : link
In comment 14039417 christian said:
Quote:
The 3rd tight end is pretty critical if the indications are true and the base offense is a a 2 TE set.

Adams isn't impressive, but also Ellison has a tremendous amount to prove. He's never produced starter type numbers. Even with Shurmur in Minnesota his production doesn't jump off the sheet.


Well if we're going by 1 preseason game, which we probably shouldn't, Ellison's seal block on the LB sprang Barkley for his big gain. And just what do you use for "starter type numbers" for blocking?


As a group, I'd rank these TEs in the Top 5 of the NFL.
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 8/15/2018 9:03 am : link
In comment 14039438 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 14039417 christian said:


Quote:


The 3rd tight end is pretty critical if the indications are true and the base offense is a a 2 TE set.

Adams isn't impressive, but also Ellison has a tremendous amount to prove. He's never produced starter type numbers. Even with Shurmur in Minnesota his production doesn't jump off the sheet.



Well if we're going by 1 preseason game, which we probably shouldn't, Ellison's seal block on the LB sprang Barkley for his big gain. And just what do you use for "starter type numbers" for blocking?


As a group, I'd rank these TEs in the Top 5 of the NFL.


*If* the Giants play a substantial percentage of snaps out of a 12 personnel package Ellison is going to have to be much more than a blocking TE. He's taking WR out off the field. He will be in a position to get plenty of targets, which just isn't something he's gotten in his career.

Again, big if, because who knows what Shurmur and Shula intend to do on the personnel front, but if he's on the field a lot he's going to get more than 32 targets and if he's taking burn from a WR I hope he's much more productive than he's ever been in his career.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
njm : 8/15/2018 9:16 am : link
In comment 14039453 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14039438 njm said:


Quote:


In comment 14039417 christian said:


Quote:


The 3rd tight end is pretty critical if the indications are true and the base offense is a a 2 TE set.

Adams isn't impressive, but also Ellison has a tremendous amount to prove. He's never produced starter type numbers. Even with Shurmur in Minnesota his production doesn't jump off the sheet.



Well if we're going by 1 preseason game, which we probably shouldn't, Ellison's seal block on the LB sprang Barkley for his big gain. And just what do you use for "starter type numbers" for blocking?


As a group, I'd rank these TEs in the Top 5 of the NFL.



*If* the Giants play a substantial percentage of snaps out of a 12 personnel package Ellison is going to have to be much more than a blocking TE. He's taking WR out off the field. He will be in a position to get plenty of targets, which just isn't something he's gotten in his career.

Again, big if, because who knows what Shurmur and Shula intend to do on the personnel front, but if he's on the field a lot he's going to get more than 32 targets and if he's taking burn from a WR I hope he's much more productive than he's ever been in his career.



If there are no injuries, knock on wood, the targets on the field will be Beckham, Engram, Shepherd, Barkley and Ellison. More targets than 32? Possibly. A LOT more targets? No way. But may I suggest opening holes for Barkley's runs may be more important than Eli's 5th receiving option.
you would have to think that the majority plays out of 12 personnel  
ron mexico : 8/15/2018 9:20 am : link
will be running plays

If Ellison ends up with 200-300 well timed yards (along with excellent blocking) I think that would justify his price tag
RE: you would have to think that the majority plays out of 12 personnel  
christian : 8/15/2018 9:27 am : link
In comment 14039467 ron mexico said:
Quote:
will be running plays

If Ellison ends up with 200-300 well timed yards (along with excellent blocking) I think that would justify his price tag


Again big *if*. If the base is 12 personnel I would hope there would be an effective mix of run and pass plays.

Ellison is going to get snaps at the expensive of a WR in this case, and I would expect him to outperform his last year 24/235/2.
RE: RE: you would have to think that the majority plays out of 12 personnel  
njm : 8/15/2018 9:36 am : link
In comment 14039474 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14039467 ron mexico said:


Quote:


will be running plays

If Ellison ends up with 200-300 well timed yards (along with excellent blocking) I think that would justify his price tag



Again big *if*. If the base is 12 personnel I would hope there would be an effective mix of run and pass plays.

Ellison is going to get snaps at the expensive of a WR in this case, and I would expect him to outperform his last year 24/235/2.


And who is that 3rd WR? And will his performance justify the "expense" of diminished blocking?
...  
christian : 8/15/2018 9:37 am : link
And I'm saying expense of WR like there is actually any depth there, which there is not. The Giants are relying on a career under achiever as the second outside WR. Which I think makes Ellison's role even more important.
RE: RE: you would have to think that the majority plays out of 12 personnel  
ron mexico : 8/15/2018 9:38 am : link
In comment 14039474 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14039467 ron mexico said:


Quote:


will be running plays

If Ellison ends up with 200-300 well timed yards (along with excellent blocking) I think that would justify his price tag



Again big *if*. If the base is 12 personnel I would hope there would be an effective mix of run and pass plays.

Ellison is going to get snaps at the expensive of a WR in this case, and I would expect him to outperform his last year 24/235/2.


I think you may be overestimating the use of 12 personnel

I doubt it will be higher than 25% of the O formations
RE: RE: RE: you would have to think that the majority plays out of 12 personnel  
christian : 8/15/2018 9:58 am : link
In comment 14039489 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14039474 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 14039467 ron mexico said:


Quote:


will be running plays

If Ellison ends up with 200-300 well timed yards (along with excellent blocking) I think that would justify his price tag



Again big *if*. If the base is 12 personnel I would hope there would be an effective mix of run and pass plays.

Ellison is going to get snaps at the expensive of a WR in this case, and I would expect him to outperform his last year 24/235/2.



I think you may be overestimating the use of 12 personnel

I doubt it will be higher than 25% of the O formations



That could be entirely true. There was a point last year where the Viking's offense progressed to use a lot of 2 TE sets. I don't know enough about their season to know if that was out of circumstance or design.

And again not that it's any indication but Shurmur did announce Ellison as a starter.

Last year as we all know the Giants were in an astonishingly frustrating snaps in 11 personnel and Ellison was getting basically no touches until Macadoo was fired.

What's a good sign is that when Sullivan took over and Engram was banged up Ellison had his 2 most productive games I think of his career.
I think Adams will develop into  
Bluesbreaker : 8/16/2018 12:02 am : link
a decent TE He has great size Hopefully he is able to show a
little more he's got great size are his hands suspect ? Remains to be seen . I don't think his blocking is as bad as some make it out to be . I like him as a player .
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