...you'll see a struggling QB. Bad decisions, bad throws, etc........
Webb needs to bounce back in the next game, but the Giants are hardly writing him off. They get to see him every day in practice, and while practice isn't a game, there's talent there.
It's a journey not a sprint for a QB.
I think the most pressing need for Webb is simply to S-L-O-W down.........he was way to hyped IMO.
Phil Simms was a first round pick, and the team was fully invested. If Webb doesn't make it, he was a low third round pick, what are you going to do? Chances are, most third round picks are not going to be franchise guys.
All that said, it would be worse if Kyle L. didn't look good, but he did, so we have something to be optimistic about as far as a back goes.
Did you actually see what the completion % was league-wide for that week of games or did you just eyeball that many QB's had over a 70% completion rate?
You know what the completion rate was for the Week 1 preseason??
62.7%
Christ, you can't even prove your own point using an example you cherry picked!!
Some of the agendas here are very tiresome. We get it, you don't like Davis Webb - you think we should have taken a QB instead of Barkley. You think Eli is finished.
The idea that there's this large contingent of "Pro-Webb" people on this board is a joke. There's barely anyone who is bullish on Webb or has unrealistic expectations. He looked like shit against Cleveland. Lauletta looked better and had zero experience. Let's see if Webb improves on Friday or if he struggles again.
Good post. Other than Webb fanboy sxdxca, I don't see any overtly "pro-Webb" posters. Just many of us, including me, intrigued by his talent. That said, his performance last week is concerning, mainly in that he played right into most of the criticisms levied against him - that he struggled with accuracy down the field.
To use the argument that he played in exhibitions last year is a silly argument. There was no pressure last year, as he was a 3rd round pick that no one was counting on to be anything more than a 3rd string clipboard carrier. The stakes are MUCH different this year, both with opportunity and risk.
He has a very real chance to win the #2 job, and even be the heir apparent to Eli, but there is also a new administration with no capital invested in him. So it isn't shocking that he might have been overly amped or nervous or a bit of both.
It's almost like "wait and see" is no longer an acceptable approach. I don't understand it.
People make up their minds the day these guys are drafted, find any shred of evidence that supports their claim - even when it's a tiny sample or inconclusive - scream from the heavens about it, but then ignore anything that doesn't.
Posters on this thread have very clear agendas and value their own opinions more than they probably should.
I'm pro-GIANTS. I am rooting for Davis and want him to succeed and am willing to give him more time.
Am I blind to the fact that he was garbage last week? Of course not. He sucked. Plain and simple. Cleveland also supposedly "game planned" for this game while we really didn't. I'm sure he was very amped up and jittery. If you're Davis Webb, this preseason literally can determine his entire future. Which seems dramatic - but it's true in a lot of ways.
More poor showings and Webb will go the way of Ryan Nassib pretty quickly. But if he shows signs of progress and encouragement, it will bode really well for him. He has a LOT riding on these next few weeks. Hard to ignore that aspect of this. Webb is going out there knowing this might be the only shot he ever really gets at this - there's a lot riding on it for him.
All I want to see is a better showing on Friday. If we get that, great. If he looks bad again, then hey... give Lauletta more time and try to get a better look at him so we can figure out who is really our best option should anything happen to Eli.
It's okay to be a little patient sometimes. A lot of posters here just seem to not be capable of it.
Ill play ball.
My evidence is my own. I looked at the entire NFL is week 1 and compiled it. It is linked. The vast majority were about 70%. Webb was at 41% and was 80th of 83 QBs
Now unless this was some unique occurrence in NFL history, this was a typical week in nfl preseason
What is your evidence and where did you get it?
I feel like Seinfeld in the car reservation line.
"You're doing compiling all over the place (arms waving wildly), but you aren't LOOKING at what you compiled. And that's the key - understanding what you've compiled......
You keep saying the evidence is your own, yet you really don't understand anything other than just listing the completion stats.
This past Thursday certainly didn't make me optimistic, but I am more than willing to suspend judgment until at least the end of this pre-season. And if it turns out that Webb isn't the guy, I sure hope Lauletta is the guy.
Because I'm a Giants fan.
Regardless, I think it's important to note that many of the reviews of Webb from practice and training camp have said that he is the goods and looks better than anyone else on the roster under center. Raanan and Pat Traina have particularly been very bullish on him, as I recall.
So let's not make a final judgment based on a couple of quarters of play, shall we?
I'm pro-GIANTS. I am rooting for Davis and want him to succeed and am willing to give him more time.
How in the world does BBI "giving Davis more time" impact what actually happens? You make it sound as though there is cause and effect between what people post here has some effect upon what decisions the Giants make on a player.
IMO, the entire issue of Webb "being ready" or "not ready" is a completely bogus issue. He was not drafted with the assumption he was going to be ready to play last year or this year. He is a project and remains a project. If he gets cut this year, it won't be because he wasn't good enough to be Manning's heir apparent - it will be because he wasn't good enough for the Giants keeping him around as a long term 3-5 year project.
How on Earth does this help the argument Davis Webb?
The league wide average was 62.7% - bear in mind that most major starters didnt really play so we are talking mostly backups and worse.
And Davis Webb was was 40.7%
So again, how on Earth does this help Davis Webb??? He was that bad.
But- I had said “most QBs throw 70%” - I didnt say the average.
The point of my post on the QB % was that nearly all of the QBs were over 50% - if you read it. 72 QBs out of 83 threw 50% and he couldnt do that.
And lastly, my point on Hackenberg was mocking. You compare to Simms and Eli and say hey they had crappy throws. Well I say even Hackenberg could look good in the preseason.
By your own admission and numbers, the league average was 62.7% and Webb was 41%
And you think this helps you!
Classic
We went from arguing over one pass and saying everyone does it to confirming that Webb was 21% worse than the average QB in week 1.
Great job, I couldn’t have said it better myself
Maybe you are too dense to understand but no one is defending Webb’s completetuon percentage. We are A. Saying your arbitrary numbers were pulled out of your ass and also incorrect and B. Are saying that we should give him time before coming to a final conclusion about his place on this team, because, you know, that’s what the preaseason is for.....
Lastly apply this logic to all players, this isn’t specific to Webb. Not sure if you realize that or not but there it is...
Preseason games have on average a 7% less rate of completions than regular season games.
WHERE IS THIS INFO COMING FROM?
You said I made mine up. I gave you where I came up with it. I, of course said most QBs threw 70%. You came back with the “average is 62.7% - which isnt the same thing but fine, maybe my numbers a bit off but I made nothing up
you seemingly can't grasp stats, I'll give you a little exercise. Prove my post is wrong.
Quote:
You said I made mine up. I gave you where I came up with it. I, of course said most QBs threw 70%. You came back with the “average is 62.7% - which isnt the same thing but fine, maybe my numbers a bit off but I made nothing up
Where is your evidence?
I refuted your point - by providing exactly what the completion % was in Week 1, and by the way, the number of QB's with 70% was less than the number who had 70%, so even that point was false.
You can keep showing your complete lack of understanding by providing evidence my stats were wrong. Maybe you'll learn something along the way.....
This is so fucking ridiculous. Apparently you aren't taking away the key point - STOP MAKING SHIT UP!!!
you seemingly can't grasp stats, I'll give you a little exercise. Prove my post is wrong.
Quote:
You said I made mine up. I gave you where I came up with it. I, of course said most QBs threw 70%. You came back with the “average is 62.7% - which isnt the same thing but fine, maybe my numbers a bit off but I made nothing up
Where is your evidence?
I refuted your point - by providing exactly what the completion % was in Week 1, and by the way, the number of QB's with 70% was less than the number who had 70%, so even that point was false.
You can keep showing your complete lack of understanding by providing evidence my stats were wrong. Maybe you'll learn something along the way.....
This is so fucking ridiculous. Apparently you aren't taking away the key point - STOP MAKING SHIT UP!!!
Classic.
Prove me wrong
You accused me of making it up when you in fact made it up.
FatMans point was that the preseason numbers are worse than regular season and therefore Webb wasnt as bad.
My point was that you were full of shit. I have actually said nothing about Webb in this thread.
What I did was show evidence that the 70% figure was complete bullshit, and it popped out because traditionally the completion % is lower in preseason.
Are you being purposely dense? Because it sure seems that way.
what point are you trying to make? That Webb sucks, will never be an NFL caliber QB let alone Eli's replacement and you want all those willing to give him more time to admit he is dogshit?
If it's that you are making the argument that the Giants should have drafted Darnold, get over it.
Maybe you should take two steps back from the keyboard and rethink your argument.
FatMans point was that the preseason numbers are worse than regular season and therefore Webb wasnt as bad.
My point was that you were full of shit. I have actually said nothing about Webb in this thread.
What I did was show evidence that the 70% figure was complete bullshit, and it popped out because traditionally the completion % is lower in preseason.
Are you being purposely dense? Because it sure seems that way.
This is only one of numerous times he has distorted peoples' posts to bolster whatever point he feels he wants to make. Extremely disingenuous and dishonest.
Matt Lombardo
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@MattLombardoNFL
It’s almost like Davis Webb turned the calendar back two months. Looks as good today as he did during May OTAs and minicamp
you can do what I did, and find the data to disprove it.
Or are you a stat-challenged as you appear in this thread?
My sole contribution to this thread was to show that the 70% figure was bullshit - because you are consistently a horrible poster who makes shit up. Is it too difficult for you to do the same?
Matt Lombardo
✔
@MattLombardoNFL
It’s almost like Davis Webb turned the calendar back two months. Looks as good today as he did during May OTAs and minicamp
I'm pro-GIANTS. I am rooting for Davis and want him to succeed and am willing to give him more time.
How in the world does BBI "giving Davis more time" impact what actually happens? You make it sound as though there is cause and effect between what people post here has some effect upon what decisions the Giants make on a player.
IMO, the entire issue of Webb "being ready" or "not ready" is a completely bogus issue. He was not drafted with the assumption he was going to be ready to play last year or this year. He is a project and remains a project. If he gets cut this year, it won't be because he wasn't good enough to be Manning's heir apparent - it will be because he wasn't good enough for the Giants keeping him around as a long term 3-5 year project.
I made it sound like people's opinions of Webb effect how he plays or doesn't play? If thats what you got from my post, you suck at reading comprehension.
Just in case you're in need of basic clarification, the idea was that it's too early to draw a conclusion on Davis Webb - yet, some posters already have.
I hope Webb is the real deal because he's a Giant & seems like someone who puts in the time & work to try to be great. Thursday wasn't encouraging, but it's one preseason game. To make a definitive outlook on his career after one game is idiotic. Time will tell.
It doesn't matter. He didn't play well, but it doesn't matter. If he continues to suck during preseason he will be #3. If he plays well the next 3 games he'll be #2. I cant believe so many are willing to dig his grave after 2 qtrs in preseason game #1.
"QB Davis Webb had his best day in awhile. Came in and took some 1st-team snaps and fired some bullets into tight windows. Still a random high pass but better. He led starters down field to FG attempt in 2-minute drill. Based on practice reps, Webb way ahead of Lauletta".
I post this not to say Webb is anything yet, however my point is its way too early to make any decision whatsoever. For example, if he practices well and then plays well against the Lions, then again against the Pats, that 1 qtr against the Browns will mean nothing. It will just be chaulked up to nerves on the first game.
and what little we've seen of him with the Giants, the only conclusion based in reality is that he can't play. The rest is hoping that he'll show massive improvement in even the most fundamental aspects of playing quarterback in the NFL.
I'll say again that any snaps he gets are wasted. They should actively be trying to fill his spot on the roster with someone else.
plenty of talent in this world, individuals that actually produce results are a different crowd. We need to see that from Webb. Practice is different than a real game. does anyone think about practice when they are in the real game? Doubt it. If you ask an elite musician what scale where you thinking about in the part of the composition, they will laugh and say I dont think I perform. thinking is for the practice/room field. Webb needs to show the results when the play is real and they keep score.
I didn’t look st every game but I’m going to go out on a limb and say your takeaway is bullshit.
Explain Mayfield at 55% - I guess he sucks?
Webb needs to bounce back in the next game, but the Giants are hardly writing him off. They get to see him every day in practice, and while practice isn't a game, there's talent there.
It's a journey not a sprint for a QB.
I think the most pressing need for Webb is simply to S-L-O-W down.........he was way to hyped IMO.
Phil Simms was a first round pick, and the team was fully invested. If Webb doesn't make it, he was a low third round pick, what are you going to do? Chances are, most third round picks are not going to be franchise guys.
All that said, it would be worse if Kyle L. didn't look good, but he did, so we have something to be optimistic about as far as a back goes.
Did you actually see what the completion % was league-wide for that week of games or did you just eyeball that many QB's had over a 70% completion rate?
You know what the completion rate was for the Week 1 preseason??
62.7%
Christ, you can't even prove your own point using an example you cherry picked!!
Fucking ponderous.
Quote:
Some of the agendas here are very tiresome. We get it, you don't like Davis Webb - you think we should have taken a QB instead of Barkley. You think Eli is finished.
The idea that there's this large contingent of "Pro-Webb" people on this board is a joke. There's barely anyone who is bullish on Webb or has unrealistic expectations. He looked like shit against Cleveland. Lauletta looked better and had zero experience. Let's see if Webb improves on Friday or if he struggles again.
Good post. Other than Webb fanboy sxdxca, I don't see any overtly "pro-Webb" posters. Just many of us, including me, intrigued by his talent. That said, his performance last week is concerning, mainly in that he played right into most of the criticisms levied against him - that he struggled with accuracy down the field.
To use the argument that he played in exhibitions last year is a silly argument. There was no pressure last year, as he was a 3rd round pick that no one was counting on to be anything more than a 3rd string clipboard carrier. The stakes are MUCH different this year, both with opportunity and risk.
He has a very real chance to win the #2 job, and even be the heir apparent to Eli, but there is also a new administration with no capital invested in him. So it isn't shocking that he might have been overly amped or nervous or a bit of both.
It's almost like "wait and see" is no longer an acceptable approach. I don't understand it.
People make up their minds the day these guys are drafted, find any shred of evidence that supports their claim - even when it's a tiny sample or inconclusive - scream from the heavens about it, but then ignore anything that doesn't.
Posters on this thread have very clear agendas and value their own opinions more than they probably should.
I'm pro-GIANTS. I am rooting for Davis and want him to succeed and am willing to give him more time.
Am I blind to the fact that he was garbage last week? Of course not. He sucked. Plain and simple. Cleveland also supposedly "game planned" for this game while we really didn't. I'm sure he was very amped up and jittery. If you're Davis Webb, this preseason literally can determine his entire future. Which seems dramatic - but it's true in a lot of ways.
More poor showings and Webb will go the way of Ryan Nassib pretty quickly. But if he shows signs of progress and encouragement, it will bode really well for him. He has a LOT riding on these next few weeks. Hard to ignore that aspect of this. Webb is going out there knowing this might be the only shot he ever really gets at this - there's a lot riding on it for him.
All I want to see is a better showing on Friday. If we get that, great. If he looks bad again, then hey... give Lauletta more time and try to get a better look at him so we can figure out who is really our best option should anything happen to Eli.
It's okay to be a little patient sometimes. A lot of posters here just seem to not be capable of it.
I guess when you really want to go all the way in, you just start making up figures to support a bullshit argument.
My evidence is my own. I looked at the entire NFL is week 1 and compiled it. It is linked. The vast majority were about 70%. Webb was at 41% and was 80th of 83 QBs
Now unless this was some unique occurrence in NFL history, this was a typical week in nfl preseason
What is your evidence and where did you get it?
I feel like Seinfeld in the car reservation line.
"You're doing compiling all over the place (arms waving wildly), but you aren't LOOKING at what you compiled. And that's the key - understanding what you've compiled......
You keep saying the evidence is your own, yet you really don't understand anything other than just listing the completion stats.
602 completions in 960 attempts is : 62.7%
Because I'm a Giants fan.
Regardless, I think it's important to note that many of the reviews of Webb from practice and training camp have said that he is the goods and looks better than anyone else on the roster under center. Raanan and Pat Traina have particularly been very bullish on him, as I recall.
So let's not make a final judgment based on a couple of quarters of play, shall we?
How in the world does BBI "giving Davis more time" impact what actually happens? You make it sound as though there is cause and effect between what people post here has some effect upon what decisions the Giants make on a player.
IMO, the entire issue of Webb "being ready" or "not ready" is a completely bogus issue. He was not drafted with the assumption he was going to be ready to play last year or this year. He is a project and remains a project. If he gets cut this year, it won't be because he wasn't good enough to be Manning's heir apparent - it will be because he wasn't good enough for the Giants keeping him around as a long term 3-5 year project.
But I do believe the Giants wanting to go forward with Eli could have skewed their evaluations of Darnold and the others.
Like everyone, you can always find reasons to make the choice you want to, it s called rationalization
I m not suggesting they were wrong about Barkley, but I m confident they were wrong about Darnold not being worth the value there
The league wide average was 62.7% - bear in mind that most major starters didnt really play so we are talking mostly backups and worse.
And Davis Webb was was 40.7%
So again, how on Earth does this help Davis Webb??? He was that bad.
But- I had said “most QBs throw 70%” - I didnt say the average.
The point of my post on the QB % was that nearly all of the QBs were over 50% - if you read it. 72 QBs out of 83 threw 50% and he couldnt do that.
And lastly, my point on Hackenberg was mocking. You compare to Simms and Eli and say hey they had crappy throws. Well I say even Hackenberg could look good in the preseason.
I mean you realize how dumb this is right?
twostepgiants : 10:54 am : link : reply
How on Earth does this help the argument Davis Webb?
The league wide average was 62.7% - bear in mind that most major starters didnt really play so we are talking mostly backups and worse.
And Davis Webb was was 40.7%
So again, how on Earth does this help Davis Webb??? He was that bad.
I wasn't trying to prove anything about Webb. I was producing evidence to refute a shitty, false point.
Like I said above - why make up something to try and argue a point. It is useless and takes away from any possible point you might have.
What you did was prove how bad Webb is
By your own admission and numbers, the league average was 62.7% and Webb was 41%
And you think this helps you!
Classic
We went from arguing over one pass and saying everyone does it to confirming that Webb was 21% worse than the average QB in week 1.
Great job, I couldn’t have said it better myself
Making up shit by pulling it out of your ass isn't going to strengthen anything
And you think this helps you!
Of course it helps me. I'm the one who said your stat was complete bullshit. Why am I supposed to be making Webb look good again?
The questions would be: If the evidence is so overwhelmingly there that webb sucks, why the fuck do you have to make up stats to try and support it??
“Preseason games have on average a 7% less rate of completions than regular season games.”
You said that.
By your own math you showed that the average was 62.7% in week 1
So where is your evidence showing that the regular season completion percentage is 69.7% of all NFL QBs?
The all time NFL leader is 66.9% so this should be quite the evidence.
Or maybe you should just admit that you made it up
And admit my larger point was true. Its a lot easier for QBs to complete passes in the preseason
I said the preseason games average 7% lower completion rate than regular season games.
One fucking week isn't a benchmark. Last week at 62.7% doesn't mean that all or most preseason games have that %!!
Dude, stay away from stats - as you seemingly know shit about them and yet feel confident in stating made up ones as fact.
This is absolutely a waste of time.
Provide a link
I said the preseason games average 7% lower completion rate than regular season games.
One fucking week isn't a benchmark. Last week at 62.7% doesn't mean that all or most preseason games have that %!!
Dude, stay away from stats - as you seemingly know shit about them and yet feel confident in stating made up ones as fact.
This is absolutely a waste of time.
Is your argument that week 1 of the preseason is so far outside of the norm?
Because getting 7% below the NFL average is going to be pretty tough.
What you did was prove how bad Webb is
By your own admission and numbers, the league average was 62.7% and Webb was 41%
And you think this helps you!
Classic
We went from arguing over one pass and saying everyone does it to confirming that Webb was 21% worse than the average QB in week 1.
Great job, I couldn’t have said it better myself
Maybe you are too dense to understand but no one is defending Webb’s completetuon percentage. We are A. Saying your arbitrary numbers were pulled out of your ass and also incorrect and B. Are saying that we should give him time before coming to a final conclusion about his place on this team, because, you know, that’s what the preaseason is for.....
Lastly apply this logic to all players, this isn’t specific to Webb. Not sure if you realize that or not but there it is...
WHERE IS THIS INFO COMING FROM?
You said I made mine up. I gave you where I came up with it. I, of course said most QBs threw 70%. You came back with the “average is 62.7% - which isnt the same thing but fine, maybe my numbers a bit off but I made nothing up
Where is your evidence?
I can’t believe I just typed that by the way.
I can’t believe I just typed that by the way.
You have evidence proving this point?
“Preseason games have on average a 7% less rate of completions than regular season games.”
Where?
Where is your evidence?
I refuted your point - by providing exactly what the completion % was in Week 1, and by the way, the number of QB's with 70% was less than the number who had 70%, so even that point was false.
You can keep showing your complete lack of understanding by providing evidence my stats were wrong. Maybe you'll learn something along the way.....
This is so fucking ridiculous. Apparently you aren't taking away the key point - STOP MAKING SHIT UP!!!
I was a bit off but the numbers show he was 21% worse.
My larger point is true.
FatMans point was that the preseason numbers are worse than regular season and therefore Webb wasnt as bad.
That’s what he challenged me with.
His larger point is wrong.
Im waiting for the evidence to show this:
“Preseason games have on average a 7% less rate of completions than regular season games.”
Ironically, you were 7% off the claim....
Quote:
You said I made mine up. I gave you where I came up with it. I, of course said most QBs threw 70%. You came back with the “average is 62.7% - which isnt the same thing but fine, maybe my numbers a bit off but I made nothing up
Where is your evidence?
I refuted your point - by providing exactly what the completion % was in Week 1, and by the way, the number of QB's with 70% was less than the number who had 70%, so even that point was false.
You can keep showing your complete lack of understanding by providing evidence my stats were wrong. Maybe you'll learn something along the way.....
This is so fucking ridiculous. Apparently you aren't taking away the key point - STOP MAKING SHIT UP!!!
Classic.
Prove me wrong
You accused me of making it up when you in fact made it up.
My point was that you were full of shit. I have actually said nothing about Webb in this thread.
What I did was show evidence that the 70% figure was complete bullshit, and it popped out because traditionally the completion % is lower in preseason.
Are you being purposely dense? Because it sure seems that way.
Ball is in your court, Chief.
If it's that you are making the argument that the Giants should have drafted Darnold, get over it.
Maybe you should take two steps back from the keyboard and rethink your argument.
Quote:
FatMans point was that the preseason numbers are worse than regular season and therefore Webb wasnt as bad.
My point was that you were full of shit. I have actually said nothing about Webb in this thread.
What I did was show evidence that the 70% figure was complete bullshit, and it popped out because traditionally the completion % is lower in preseason.
Are you being purposely dense? Because it sure seems that way.
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@MattLombardoNFL
It’s almost like Davis Webb turned the calendar back two months. Looks as good today as he did during May OTAs and minicamp
Ball is in your court, Chief.
You made it up. You can admit it
Or are you a stat-challenged as you appear in this thread?
My sole contribution to this thread was to show that the 70% figure was bullshit - because you are consistently a horrible poster who makes shit up. Is it too difficult for you to do the same?
Go ahead and prove me wrong.
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@MattLombardoNFL
It’s almost like Davis Webb turned the calendar back two months. Looks as good today as he did during May OTAs and minicamp
This DOES NOT belong on this thread..😎😎
Quote:
I'm pro-GIANTS. I am rooting for Davis and want him to succeed and am willing to give him more time.
How in the world does BBI "giving Davis more time" impact what actually happens? You make it sound as though there is cause and effect between what people post here has some effect upon what decisions the Giants make on a player.
IMO, the entire issue of Webb "being ready" or "not ready" is a completely bogus issue. He was not drafted with the assumption he was going to be ready to play last year or this year. He is a project and remains a project. If he gets cut this year, it won't be because he wasn't good enough to be Manning's heir apparent - it will be because he wasn't good enough for the Giants keeping him around as a long term 3-5 year project.
I made it sound like people's opinions of Webb effect how he plays or doesn't play? If thats what you got from my post, you suck at reading comprehension.
That wasn't the point at all.
Get it? Pretty simple stuff.
Who's Elijah?
62% (+/- 7%) went on to play in at least 1 Pro Bowl.
Or trying to make up more BS to counter with!
I post this not to say Webb is anything yet, however my point is its way too early to make any decision whatsoever. For example, if he practices well and then plays well against the Lions, then again against the Pats, that 1 qtr against the Browns will mean nothing. It will just be chaulked up to nerves on the first game.
I'll say again that any snaps he gets are wasted. They should actively be trying to fill his spot on the roster with someone else.
Funny you say 35 years because Simms showed some glimpses but was up and down or hurt from 79-83.
Plus we all know a good qb never ever ever ever struggles out of the gate.