I sure hope the Giants defense see that episode.....
They highlighted the Cleveland QBs, Calloway, and the TEs.....which made the Giants D look bad.
I would love to see the behind scene but I am glad the Giants are not part hardknocks. Way too exposed.
And it does not have
*other team game plan so dont worry about it
Are we really suggesting that we should model ourselves after the freakin Browns? Yeah man THATS an ownership group that knows how to run a franchise!
Unbelievable. Giants fans suck.
Supposedly, Shurmur wanted us in a base defense the whole game because of all the injuries in the secondary.
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I wonder how involved are the Giants owners in comparison?
Are we really suggesting that we should model ourselves after the freakin Browns? Yeah man THATS an ownership group that knows how to run a franchise!
Unbelievable. Giants fans suck.
?? That was not his question - as I read it he is wondering why we do not see the Browns' owners? and then wondering if the Giants owners are involved on a day to day basis with the team.
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said that the Giants were playing very basic defense and were constantly in man coverage. Dont know how true that is but if so, its not a good barometer for what our defense will actually look like in Week 1
Supposedly, Shurmur wanted us in a base defense the whole game because of all the injuries in the secondary.
That is fair, but it seems BH's post is laying the framework for the "Vanilla Defense" that has been used so often in the past when we don't play up to expectations only to be able to "flip the switch" week 1. The Vanilla Offense/Defense excuse has been used almost as long as BBI.
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In comment 14039403 Brown Recluse said:
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said that the Giants were playing very basic defense and were constantly in man coverage. Dont know how true that is but if so, its not a good barometer for what our defense will actually look like in Week 1
Supposedly, Shurmur wanted us in a base defense the whole game because of all the injuries in the secondary.
That is fair, but it seems BH's post is laying the framework for the "Vanilla Defense" that has been used so often in the past when we don't play up to expectations only to be able to "flip the switch" week 1. The Vanilla Offense/Defense excuse has been used almost as long as BBI.
the giants being vanilla during the preseason had no bearing on what happened in the regular seaaon...
giants could dominate durong preseason and it means nothing, good or bad preseason has no bearing on the regular season...
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In comment 14039403 Brown Recluse said:
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said that the Giants were playing very basic defense and were constantly in man coverage. Dont know how true that is but if so, its not a good barometer for what our defense will actually look like in Week 1
Supposedly, Shurmur wanted us in a base defense the whole game because of all the injuries in the secondary.
That is fair, but it seems BH's post is laying the framework for the "Vanilla Defense" that has been used so often in the past when we don't play up to expectations only to be able to "flip the switch" week 1. The Vanilla Offense/Defense excuse has been used almost as long as BBI.
It's not an "excuse" unless someone can prove what the Giants gameplan was or was not. It's an established thing that teams don't go into preseason games trying to show off their playbook.
Here is what has not changed (based upon one pre-season game) from last year...
1. We still cannot cover the TE
2. Apple still has no cover skills but I never thought that would change.
3. We really do not have a viable free safety right now.
So.. we do have weaknesses on the back end. Enough for the opposition to expose if we do not get some pressure up front.
I doubt that would be much comfort to the Giants.
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How many plays did the starters have in their non-game-planned D?
I doubt that would be much comfort to the Giants.
Yes, we can banter around with words. Comfort or not, they take it for what it is, practice/reps, no more no less, 8mv
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I wonder how involved are the Giants owners in comparison?
Are we really suggesting that we should model ourselves after the freakin Browns? Yeah man THATS an ownership group that knows how to run a franchise!
Unbelievable. Giants fans suck.
Exactly. The Browns beat us week 1 in preseason and Baker Mayfield looks decent. All of a sudden the Browns are seen by people on this board as a perfect and efficiently-run franchise who the Giants should look to for guidance on how to run an NFL team. Unbelievable.
Preseason is a data point. Not meaningless, and not determinative.
Where we really should look for commentary is on the joint practices since those are the times that the staff is doing the majority of their evaluations, since very little of it goes to tape and they aren't practicing vs. season opponents.
If we hear that we are being dominated in those practices or that certain players are doing poorly, that will have a much larger bearing on heading into the season than preseason.
If you are trying to figure out whether or not your team is likely to make the playoffs, it is meaningless. There are too many factors that do not mimic actual games to be meaningful.
But if you want to see if your new left tackle plays with good technique consistently? You will get an idea. If you want to see your QB be able to go through progressions and make the right read, it can give you an idea of where he is at (not what his ceiling is).
I think if you know what you are watching you can take some insights away from preseason games. You just have to put it into context.
The good news is the run defense was solid and it looked good fundamentally up front. This is where you want to build from at this stage of training camp.
As they progress, look for pass rush to generate more pressure and then see how the coverage looks on plays like the second Njoku TD. Defending the run and generating pass rush are huge keys as currently constructed.
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Preseason is a data point. Not meaningless, and not determinative.
Where we really should look for commentary is on the joint practices since those are the times that the staff is doing the majority of their evaluations, since very little of it goes to tape and they aren't practicing vs. season opponents.
If we hear that we are being dominated in those practices or that certain players are doing poorly, that will have a much larger bearing on heading into the season than preseason.
I've seen you express similar sentiments before and I think you've intimated that people told you as much. Do you mind alluding to who they are? (Not specifically, but maybe you can say "a scout" or "an assistant GM" or something like that. Only if you feel comfortable, though.)
The topic of preseason was a running joke at the Combine. And the combine is one of the few places where everyone is gathered in a relatively competitive-free environment, so it is more about open discussion than guarded words.
The consensus among HC's is that preseason games exist for the owners while the practices and scrimmages exist for the coaches and players. They hated that the CBA took the practice time down and if it weren't for the revenue that the owners cling to, preseason games would likely go away.
I'll give one example:
We had a circle of college and pro coaches and guys like me watching the WR's work out. Todd Graham (ASU), Chad Morris (SMU), Derek Mason (Vandy), Rivera, Lewis, Wade Phillips, Tomlin, Herm Edwards and Arians were among the guys there. A few other assistants or college guys I didn't know. The NFL guys were openly discussing how they really use preseason more as a trial run for sideline management and for game day operations. Player evaluation is limited to bottom of the roster guys. As one of them said "I'm only looking to see if the guy from a NAIA school is going to shit his pants". The serious talk was about the importance of scrimmages and team vs. team practices. They liked the fact they could run things "in the dark", meaning nothing was being recorded.
Interesting tidbit from that group is that it had the then coach of ASU there and Herm Edwards, the now coach.
That was one discussion, but that was the general takeaway. In a different setting, Sean Payton had a funny line. He said that his biggest challenge is getting the rookies to take it down a notch and the vets to take it up a notch in camp. He called the preseason a dog and pony show and one of the guys at the table asked him why he said that. He replied that it was a joke. He said, "If it were serious, don't you think somebody, anyone, even the Browns, would send a message that it was serious by playing their starting units for close to an entire game at least in one of them? Why do you think we all follow the same general formula?"
That stuck with me. You have 32 different coaches with different things to work on and yet not a single one of them does anything drastically different.
I know fans have a certain view of what they think of the game - and preseason is just one of those areas where the view diverges from reality.
The topic of preseason was a running joke at the Combine. And the combine is one of the few places where everyone is gathered in a relatively competitive-free environment, so it is more about open discussion than guarded words.
The consensus among HC's is that preseason games exist for the owners while the practices and scrimmages exist for the coaches and players. They hated that the CBA took the practice time down and if it weren't for the revenue that the owners cling to, preseason games would likely go away.
I'll give one example:
We had a circle of college and pro coaches and guys like me watching the WR's work out. Todd Graham (ASU), Chad Morris (SMU), Derek Mason (Vandy), Rivera, Lewis, Wade Phillips, Tomlin, Herm Edwards and Arians were among the guys there. A few other assistants or college guys I didn't know. The NFL guys were openly discussing how they really use preseason more as a trial run for sideline management and for game day operations. Player evaluation is limited to bottom of the roster guys. As one of them said "I'm only looking to see if the guy from a NAIA school is going to shit his pants". The serious talk was about the importance of scrimmages and team vs. team practices. They liked the fact they could run things "in the dark", meaning nothing was being recorded.
Interesting tidbit from that group is that it had the then coach of ASU there and Herm Edwards, the now coach.
That was one discussion, but that was the general takeaway. In a different setting, Sean Payton had a funny line. He said that his biggest challenge is getting the rookies to take it down a notch and the vets to take it up a notch in camp. He called the preseason a dog and pony show and one of the guys at the table asked him why he said that. He replied that it was a joke. He said, "If it were serious, don't you think somebody, anyone, even the Browns, would send a message that it was serious by playing their starting units for close to an entire game at least in one of them? Why do you think we all follow the same general formula?"
That stuck with me. You have 32 different coaches with different things to work on and yet not a single one of them does anything drastically different.
I know fans have a certain view of what they think of the game - and preseason is just one of those areas where the view diverges from reality.
Thank you, that's incredibly insightful.
The good news is the run defense was solid and it looked good fundamentally up front. This is where you want to build from at this stage of training camp.
As they progress, look for pass rush to generate more pressure and then see how the coverage looks on plays like the second Njoku TD. Defending the run and generating pass rush are huge keys as currently constructed.
I assume it was a cover 1, if it was a real game and we had a real FS, he would have kept an eye on the Njoku mismatch.
Anyone else notice that Callaway was wearing Florida gear in the team meeting? Seems like most players wear their NFL team gear when they are with the team.
Its great that they have so many first round picks so they can take players and trade them two years later for peanuts.
Dorsey looks stupid in that sweatshirt and shorts look.
Also fuck Gregg Williams. I cringe when hes on screen.
The topic of preseason was a running joke at the Combine. And the combine is one of the few places where everyone is gathered in a relatively competitive-free environment, so it is more about open discussion than guarded words.
The consensus among HC's is that preseason games exist for the owners while the practices and scrimmages exist for the coaches and players. They hated that the CBA took the practice time down and if it weren't for the revenue that the owners cling to, preseason games would likely go away.
I'll give one example:
We had a circle of college and pro coaches and guys like me watching the WR's work out. Todd Graham (ASU), Chad Morris (SMU), Derek Mason (Vandy), Rivera, Lewis, Wade Phillips, Tomlin, Herm Edwards and Arians were among the guys there. A few other assistants or college guys I didn't know. The NFL guys were openly discussing how they really use preseason more as a trial run for sideline management and for game day operations. Player evaluation is limited to bottom of the roster guys. As one of them said "I'm only looking to see if the guy from a NAIA school is going to shit his pants". The serious talk was about the importance of scrimmages and team vs. team practices. They liked the fact they could run things "in the dark", meaning nothing was being recorded.
Interesting tidbit from that group is that it had the then coach of ASU there and Herm Edwards, the now coach.
That was one discussion, but that was the general takeaway. In a different setting, Sean Payton had a funny line. He said that his biggest challenge is getting the rookies to take it down a notch and the vets to take it up a notch in camp. He called the preseason a dog and pony show and one of the guys at the table asked him why he said that. He replied that it was a joke. He said, "If it were serious, don't you think somebody, anyone, even the Browns, would send a message that it was serious by playing their starting units for close to an entire game at least in one of them? Why do you think we all follow the same general formula?"
That stuck with me. You have 32 different coaches with different things to work on and yet not a single one of them does anything drastically different.
I know fans have a certain view of what they think of the game - and preseason is just one of those areas where the view diverges from reality.
Thanks for this
👍
It's an aspect of team management that is often overlooked, but when it goes wrong, sticks out like a sore thumb.