RE: Special teams, can NYG put guys back there who are able to make the correct read as far as bringing the ball out of the end zone? Unless you're telling me Barkley or Beckham are back there (which we would never want) there's absolutely no reason for these more pedestrian guys to get us backed up trying to be a hero. Take the ball at the 25 and let Eli, Engram, Beckham and Barkley worry about the big plays. We can't afford to constantly lose field position.
Big week at a bunch of spots on the roster as far as improvement that I would like to see.
Webb
WRs not named Beckham or Shepard
Flowers
Apple
Free Safeties
Vernon and Martin (I actually thought Carter flashed a lot of ability last week and will contribute as he progresses)
This roster can still use a veteran 3rd corner, FS and swing tackle as we move through preseason. Wouldn't mind if any of these were addressed.
RE: Special teams, can NYG put guys back there who are able to make the correct read as far as bringing the ball out of the end zone? Unless you're telling me Barkley or Beckham are back there (which we would never want) there's absolutely no reason for these more pedestrian guys to get us backed up trying to be a hero. Take the ball at the 25 and let Eli, Engram, Beckham and Barkley worry about the big plays. We can't afford to constantly lose field position.
Big week at a bunch of spots on the roster as far as improvement that I would like to see.
Webb
WRs not named Beckham or Shepard
Flowers
Apple
Free Safeties
Vernon and Martin (I actually thought Carter flashed a lot of ability last week and will contribute as he progresses)
This roster can still use a veteran 3rd corner, FS and swing tackle as we move through preseason. Wouldn't mind if any of these were addressed.
Someone (I think it was Eric) said something like the coaching staff would tell returners in the preseason to return the kicks so as to give the team reps on kickoff return blocking.
sound really jaded in your preview. This is a team that was 3-13 last year has turned over a good chunk of the roster, has new coaches, new schemes. Just how much performance should we expect the second week of games. Your falling into the same trap as most fans- you want to see results, somewhat of a finished product. For me, the OL and running game looked pretty good last week. The DL stopped the run. To me that means more physical on the lines which is a good start and what Getts and Shurmur wanted to achieve. Have to start somewhere.
sound really jaded in your preview. This is a team that was 3-13 last year has turned over a good chunk of the roster, has new coaches, new schemes. Just how much performance should we expect the second week of games. Your falling into the same trap as most fans- you want to see results, somewhat of a finished product. For me, the OL and running game looked pretty good last week. The DL stopped the run. To me that means more physical on the lines which is a good start and what Getts and Shurmur wanted to achieve. Have to start somewhere.
I was wrong, it wasn't Eric. FatMan in Charlotte said that in the linked thread below. Link - ( New Window )
Will your team win the match-ups on any given day? With injuries and personnel changes that typically take place over a season, most of what happens today doesn't matter too much.
But we have to be realistic with where we the big money is. Stuff like innacuracy from your 20M QB, or deficient coverage from your big money corners doesn't bode well.
I'll keep it optomistic and say that the match-up advantage we have in the running game is a vast improvement. That will help keep us in games and significantly improve our preformance late in those close games.
sound really jaded in your preview. This is a team that was 3-13 last year has turned over a good chunk of the roster, has new coaches, new schemes. Just how much performance should we expect the second week of games. Your falling into the same trap as most fans- you want to see results, somewhat of a finished product. For me, the OL and running game looked pretty good last week. The DL stopped the run. To me that means more physical on the lines which is a good start and what Getts and Shurmur wanted to achieve. Have to start somewhere.
I know. But I've stopped giving this team the benefit of the doubt. The Giants have clearly been mismanaged since 2011 (and in some ways were running on fumes even that season). I'm hopeful about the new regime but if we are looking at this objectively, we hired two previously fired retreads. The QB is on the wrong side of 35 and has been on a downward decline for two years. Reese and Ross made so many mistakes that there are a lot of holes to plug.
We do have quite a few top tier players and the rest of the league is mediocre so it's possible we could become competitive quickly again. But the first game was not overly encouraging.
I tend to look at specific issues and specific position of concern Â
If this were the Pats or Pitt or someone that’s one thing. But when you are down this long and coming off 3 wins in 16 games, the preseason takes on a much different perspective. Bad teams don’t have confidence the switch will just turn on. You need to set the tone. I’m tired of hearing about players making plays in practice, then in the preseason and season when they guys on the other side are wearing a different color they’re a no show. You see so many of the same themes over and over again. If things are different —show it. Can’t say last week things looked any different. So now they get another chance.
If we have some big plays, but I'm more concerned about execution, which has been a problem for a long time, particularly on offense. I'd really like to see extended drives on offense, a high success rate on third down on both sides of the ball, and especially an ability to execute in the short passing game. Please let us learn to make the screen pass a real weapon.
I can't say I'm optimistic on that by the way. It seems the short passing game is a weakness of both Eli and Webb.
on the waiver wire, during a year when each team has until September 1st to cut 37 people. Would have been a whole lot nicer to have a pick of all the waived players every week throughout preseason.
We have to pray our young guys develop & that Eli can still play well.
It will take about 4 real season games to truly know where we are & my guess is average.
It's one thing to focus on the issues with the giants Â
but such conversations need to be taken with a dose of perspective. Take a look at what TEs around the NFL are doing. It's not just the Giants that seem to have some curious problem defending them.
RE: It's one thing to focus on the issues with the giants Â
but such conversations need to be taken with a dose of perspective. Take a look at what TEs around the NFL are doing. It's not just the Giants that seem to have some curious problem defending them.
Makes you wonder though why we struggle offensively to move the chains consistently, considering the talent we have at TE.
I think Eric's review is perfectly reasoned..... Â
however, I personally will wait till I see the starting units play for more then a half of a game to get a better feel for this team. Depth is certainly lacking and without OBJ and Barkley on the field, this offense is a shell of what it could be as well.
As for tonight:
On offense I want to see better play from Flowers and the Oline in general, Gallman making an impact in the running game, Webb redeeming himself, the TE's becoming a factor on O and Latimer stepping up in the passing game.
On defense, I want to see the Dline crushing the running game again, a better pass rush from the LBers, LCarter starting to become a factor, and the secondary making some plays.
On Specials, I want to see Rosas kicking accurately, a better return game on both Kickoffs and PRs and lastly a better punting average from Dixon.
No doubt and without question our offense is a much different animal without OBJ and Saquon. Every team except for the Patriots could lose their #1 receiver and #1 back and not be impacted.
But most teams can pick up three first downs in a row.
Man, when even pre-season optimism is in short supply...
I'll be ready though. The INSTANT this team shits the bed and starts losing by 30 and half the roster goes to IR, I'll be off to parks, to orchards if the last 5 years have done anything, the Giants have transformed me into the perfect fair weather fan.
No doubt and without question our offense is a much different animal without OBJ and Saquon. Every team except for the Patriots could lose their #1 receiver and #1 back and not be impacted.
But most teams can pick up three first downs in a row.
Is that too much to ask?
I'm with you Eric, but Webb was most instrumental in the Giants crappy passing game last week. I'm going to give Shurmur the shadow of the doubt right now. It's hard to predict what this offense will be without seeing more from the starters first. If Eli doesn't get happy feet, I think this offense could be something special. Anyway, I do hope for a better showing on offense tonight, as well.
Eli needs more playing time with the starters..... Â
I want to like Webb, but man, that was bad last week... so bad that I actually think he can now play himself off of the roster (not likely, but I wouldn't be shocked).
That's not what bothered me. Granted it was an incredibly small sample size, but the first two series by the first-string were not inspiring. We have to be able to throw the football and move it to someone else besides Odell. With Shepard and Engram out there, we should be able to pick up some first downs. Last week, we had the Barkley run, a 1st down because of a dumb penalty by the Browns, and three points.
We saw misfires, route short of the first down, a bad sack. Same crap as last year.
I'm not calling the doom that x meadowlander alludes to above, but c'mon, let's score 24 points in a game.
I understand the frustration. Let's just hope we get a better showing tonight. I'd like to see the starters at least playing into the 2nd quarter tonight to get a little more of an idea of what they are at this point. Additionally, it would be nice to see some sustained drives ending in points. Unfortunately, I think the Giants will play it safely since they just had joint practices against another team too. That could mean seeing less starters again this week.
These games take on a different significance. Especially when the decision making at the highest levels indicate a refusal to rebuild.
They've committed to a 37 year old QB coming off of two down seasons (regardless of the reasons) instead of investing in the future, despite the uncertainties. So when you project a strategy of win now, and bank the future on it --go out an prove it.
What we saw last week looked like the same old. Defensive coverage is horrible, offense can't sustain drives or put points on the board. The team is selling a line that they are going to compete. So prove it.
These games take on a different significance. Especially when the decision making at the highest levels indicate a refusal to rebuild.
They've committed to a 37 year old QB coming off of two down seasons (regardless of the reasons) instead of investing in the future, despite the uncertainties. So when you project a strategy of win now, and bank the future on it --go out an prove it.
What we saw last week looked like the same old. Defensive coverage is horrible, offense can't sustain drives or put points on the board. The team is selling a line that they are going to compete. So prove it.
preseason means nothing, you can go out and be world beaters in preseason and still suck during the season...
going 3-13 last year does not add any more significance to a preseason game...
These games take on a different significance. Especially when the decision making at the highest levels indicate a refusal to rebuild.
They've committed to a 37 year old QB coming off of two down seasons (regardless of the reasons) instead of investing in the future, despite the uncertainties. So when you project a strategy of win now, and bank the future on it --go out an prove it.
What we saw last week looked like the same old. Defensive coverage is horrible, offense can't sustain drives or put points on the board. The team is selling a line that they are going to compete. So prove it.
preseason means nothing, you can go out and be world beaters in preseason and still suck during the season...
going 3-13 last year does not add any more significance to a preseason game...
preseason is about individuals, not about team...
You're wrong. Bad teams can't just flip on a switch and become good teams. It doesn't work that way.
From a Pray OBJ Breaks a Slant for a 80 Yard TD for us to Win (POBJBS80TDW) to a hybrid Pray OBJ Breaks a Slant for a 80 Yard TD for us to Win or Pray SB Breaks a Wheel Route for a 80 Yard TD for us to Win hybrid (POBJBS80TDW-PSBBWR80TDW).
These games take on a different significance. Especially when the decision making at the highest levels indicate a refusal to rebuild.
They've committed to a 37 year old QB coming off of two down seasons (regardless of the reasons) instead of investing in the future, despite the uncertainties. So when you project a strategy of win now, and bank the future on it --go out an prove it.
What we saw last week looked like the same old. Defensive coverage is horrible, offense can't sustain drives or put points on the board. The team is selling a line that they are going to compete. So prove it.
preseason means nothing, you can go out and be world beaters in preseason and still suck during the season...
going 3-13 last year does not add any more significance to a preseason game...
preseason is about individuals, not about team...
You're wrong. Bad teams can't just flip on a switch and become good teams. It doesn't work that way.
it is not about flipping a switch, coaches use preseason to test out plays, shurmur himself said everything was vanilla and didnt change based on what the browns are doing...
there is no gameplanning, the plays they run are scripted...
it is not about flipping a switch, do you honestly think veterans are going hard in preseason? do you honestly think coaches are showing thwir entire playbook?
giants come out tonight and dominate it means nothing, it is nice to see but it doesnt mean anything...
No matter who the coach is, no matter what the system is. It looks like we have an old, dusty New York Giants Preseason Manual waiting for every new employee when hired. Company policy.
Fairly high level of dumb throughout this thread. Â
Imagine if we had gone 10-6 last year but for some reason we dumped most of the coaching staff, and thus installed a new offense and an brand new defensive scheme. We've had a handful of OTA's and preseason practices -- would we expect a well-oiled machine?
I agree with many people that our O needs OBJ, a full-time Saquon, and a better-than-recent Eli, and that our D is shallow behind the line and shallow overall.
But most comments here seem to have forgotten that, on a short offseason, last Thursday was our first game-situation look at an entirely new offense and defense with an entirely new HC, DC, and OC.
But it means a lot more than nothing. How many voices did we hear on this board a year ago telling us the same thing --that the preseason means nothing-- expecting good football to materialize miraculously in week 1.
There are probably a handful of veterans who the preseason means nothing for. Odell, maybe Snacks, probably a few more. But for most they are making an impression on a new head coach, playing for contracts, or competing for starting spots. And if the team is going to turn it around, you would expect to see many with enough pride as competitors to have some fire in their bellies after the stink of last year.
Confidence matters. You want to fix the locker room, you need to build a culture. That doesn't happen only on Sundays from September to January.
And yes, they could dominate and it would not necessarily mean something. Preseason can be a better indicator of issues than it can success. Teams use the preseason to fix the things that are issues. If a team experiences the same theme of issues year in year out --the same patterns repeated over and over with each successive observational opportunity-- one would have to be a fool to simply assume the results, when the count, will be any different.
But it means a lot more than nothing. How many voices did we hear on this board a year ago telling us the same thing --that the preseason means nothing-- expecting good football to materialize miraculously in week 1.
There are probably a handful of veterans who the preseason means nothing for. Odell, maybe Snacks, probably a few more. But for most they are making an impression on a new head coach, playing for contracts, or competing for starting spots. And if the team is going to turn it around, you would expect to see many with enough pride as competitors to have some fire in their bellies after the stink of last year.
Confidence matters. You want to fix the locker room, you need to build a culture. That doesn't happen only on Sundays from September to January.
And yes, they could dominate and it would not necessarily mean something. Preseason can be a better indicator of issues than it can success. Teams use the preseason to fix the things that are issues. If a team experiences the same theme of issues year in year out --the same patterns repeated over and over with each successive observational opportunity-- one would have to be a fool to simply assume the results, when the count, will be any different.
last years preseason had no bearing on the season...
they would of sucked no matter what and as i recall they kivked the shit out of the jets in the 3rd preseason game...
August 16, 2018 New York Giants Practice Report - ( New Window )
Big week at a bunch of spots on the roster as far as improvement that I would like to see.
Webb
WRs not named Beckham or Shepard
Flowers
Apple
Free Safeties
Vernon and Martin (I actually thought Carter flashed a lot of ability last week and will contribute as he progresses)
This roster can still use a veteran 3rd corner, FS and swing tackle as we move through preseason. Wouldn't mind if any of these were addressed.
Big week at a bunch of spots on the roster as far as improvement that I would like to see.
Webb
WRs not named Beckham or Shepard
Flowers
Apple
Free Safeties
Vernon and Martin (I actually thought Carter flashed a lot of ability last week and will contribute as he progresses)
This roster can still use a veteran 3rd corner, FS and swing tackle as we move through preseason. Wouldn't mind if any of these were addressed.
Someone (I think it was Eric) said something like the coaching staff would tell returners in the preseason to return the kicks so as to give the team reps on kickoff return blocking.
I was wrong, it wasn't Eric. FatMan in Charlotte said that in the linked thread below.
Link - ( New Window )
But we have to be realistic with where we the big money is. Stuff like innacuracy from your 20M QB, or deficient coverage from your big money corners doesn't bode well.
I'll keep it optomistic and say that the match-up advantage we have in the running game is a vast improvement. That will help keep us in games and significantly improve our preformance late in those close games.
I know. But I've stopped giving this team the benefit of the doubt. The Giants have clearly been mismanaged since 2011 (and in some ways were running on fumes even that season). I'm hopeful about the new regime but if we are looking at this objectively, we hired two previously fired retreads. The QB is on the wrong side of 35 and has been on a downward decline for two years. Reese and Ross made so many mistakes that there are a lot of holes to plug.
We do have quite a few top tier players and the rest of the league is mediocre so it's possible we could become competitive quickly again. But the first game was not overly encouraging.
FS....they need someone to step up.
As long as the OL offer Eli time and Eli shows confidence in the protection...I would feel ok.
Sure, if they sustain long drives, it
would be great....but without Barkley and OBJ
I can't say I'm optimistic on that by the way. It seems the short passing game is a weakness of both Eli and Webb.
It will take about 4 real season games to truly know where we are & my guess is average.
Makes you wonder though why we struggle offensively to move the chains consistently, considering the talent we have at TE.
As for tonight:
On offense I want to see better play from Flowers and the Oline in general, Gallman making an impact in the running game, Webb redeeming himself, the TE's becoming a factor on O and Latimer stepping up in the passing game.
On defense, I want to see the Dline crushing the running game again, a better pass rush from the LBers, LCarter starting to become a factor, and the secondary making some plays.
On Specials, I want to see Rosas kicking accurately, a better return game on both Kickoffs and PRs and lastly a better punting average from Dixon.
But most teams can pick up three first downs in a row.
Is that too much to ask?
I'll be ready though. The INSTANT this team shits the bed and starts losing by 30 and half the roster goes to IR, I'll be off to parks, to orchards if the last 5 years have done anything, the Giants have transformed me into the perfect fair weather fan.
I have no patience nor time for lousy football.
But most teams can pick up three first downs in a row.
Is that too much to ask?
I'm with you Eric, but Webb was most instrumental in the Giants crappy passing game last week. I'm going to give Shurmur the shadow of the doubt right now. It's hard to predict what this offense will be without seeing more from the starters first. If Eli doesn't get happy feet, I think this offense could be something special. Anyway, I do hope for a better showing on offense tonight, as well.
I'd like him to play the first half this week and next, and based on that, will determine if he plays against the Pats....
By the way, why do we ALWAYS play the Pats in the last preseason game? It's basically a scrub game!
That's not what bothered me. Granted it was an incredibly small sample size, but the first two series by the first-string were not inspiring. We have to be able to throw the football and move it to someone else besides Odell. With Shepard and Engram out there, we should be able to pick up some first downs. Last week, we had the Barkley run, a 1st down because of a dumb penalty by the Browns, and three points.
We saw misfires, route short of the first down, a bad sack. Same crap as last year.
I'm not calling the doom that x meadowlander alludes to above, but c'mon, let's score 24 points in a game.
They've committed to a 37 year old QB coming off of two down seasons (regardless of the reasons) instead of investing in the future, despite the uncertainties. So when you project a strategy of win now, and bank the future on it --go out an prove it.
What we saw last week looked like the same old. Defensive coverage is horrible, offense can't sustain drives or put points on the board. The team is selling a line that they are going to compete. So prove it.
They've committed to a 37 year old QB coming off of two down seasons (regardless of the reasons) instead of investing in the future, despite the uncertainties. So when you project a strategy of win now, and bank the future on it --go out an prove it.
What we saw last week looked like the same old. Defensive coverage is horrible, offense can't sustain drives or put points on the board. The team is selling a line that they are going to compete. So prove it.
preseason means nothing, you can go out and be world beaters in preseason and still suck during the season...
going 3-13 last year does not add any more significance to a preseason game...
preseason is about individuals, not about team...
Quote:
These games take on a different significance. Especially when the decision making at the highest levels indicate a refusal to rebuild.
They've committed to a 37 year old QB coming off of two down seasons (regardless of the reasons) instead of investing in the future, despite the uncertainties. So when you project a strategy of win now, and bank the future on it --go out an prove it.
What we saw last week looked like the same old. Defensive coverage is horrible, offense can't sustain drives or put points on the board. The team is selling a line that they are going to compete. So prove it.
preseason means nothing, you can go out and be world beaters in preseason and still suck during the season...
going 3-13 last year does not add any more significance to a preseason game...
preseason is about individuals, not about team...
Quote:
In comment 14041530 UberAlias said:
Quote:
These games take on a different significance. Especially when the decision making at the highest levels indicate a refusal to rebuild.
They've committed to a 37 year old QB coming off of two down seasons (regardless of the reasons) instead of investing in the future, despite the uncertainties. So when you project a strategy of win now, and bank the future on it --go out an prove it.
What we saw last week looked like the same old. Defensive coverage is horrible, offense can't sustain drives or put points on the board. The team is selling a line that they are going to compete. So prove it.
preseason means nothing, you can go out and be world beaters in preseason and still suck during the season...
going 3-13 last year does not add any more significance to a preseason game...
preseason is about individuals, not about team...
You're wrong. Bad teams can't just flip on a switch and become good teams. It doesn't work that way.
it is not about flipping a switch, coaches use preseason to test out plays, shurmur himself said everything was vanilla and didnt change based on what the browns are doing...
there is no gameplanning, the plays they run are scripted...
it is not about flipping a switch, do you honestly think veterans are going hard in preseason? do you honestly think coaches are showing thwir entire playbook?
giants come out tonight and dominate it means nothing, it is nice to see but it doesnt mean anything...
And you all know what I'm talking about.
No matter who the coach is, no matter what the system is. It looks like we have an old, dusty New York Giants Preseason Manual waiting for every new employee when hired. Company policy.
I agree with many people that our O needs OBJ, a full-time Saquon, and a better-than-recent Eli, and that our D is shallow behind the line and shallow overall.
But most comments here seem to have forgotten that, on a short offseason, last Thursday was our first game-situation look at an entirely new offense and defense with an entirely new HC, DC, and OC.
Bill Parcells took the preseason fairly seriously.
Your points are valid, but at some point, the excuses wear thin.
There are probably a handful of veterans who the preseason means nothing for. Odell, maybe Snacks, probably a few more. But for most they are making an impression on a new head coach, playing for contracts, or competing for starting spots. And if the team is going to turn it around, you would expect to see many with enough pride as competitors to have some fire in their bellies after the stink of last year.
Confidence matters. You want to fix the locker room, you need to build a culture. That doesn't happen only on Sundays from September to January.
And yes, they could dominate and it would not necessarily mean something. Preseason can be a better indicator of issues than it can success. Teams use the preseason to fix the things that are issues. If a team experiences the same theme of issues year in year out --the same patterns repeated over and over with each successive observational opportunity-- one would have to be a fool to simply assume the results, when the count, will be any different.
Bill Parcells took the preseason fairly seriously.
i am sire he did, but when the head coach says they are playing base no matter that should tell you all you need to know
There are probably a handful of veterans who the preseason means nothing for. Odell, maybe Snacks, probably a few more. But for most they are making an impression on a new head coach, playing for contracts, or competing for starting spots. And if the team is going to turn it around, you would expect to see many with enough pride as competitors to have some fire in their bellies after the stink of last year.
Confidence matters. You want to fix the locker room, you need to build a culture. That doesn't happen only on Sundays from September to January.
And yes, they could dominate and it would not necessarily mean something. Preseason can be a better indicator of issues than it can success. Teams use the preseason to fix the things that are issues. If a team experiences the same theme of issues year in year out --the same patterns repeated over and over with each successive observational opportunity-- one would have to be a fool to simply assume the results, when the count, will be any different.
last years preseason had no bearing on the season...
they would of sucked no matter what and as i recall they kivked the shit out of the jets in the 3rd preseason game...
Browns dominate in preseason. :)
In all seriousness, if tonight's bad, then I am really worried about things moving forward.