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NFT: Mets vs Phillies - Double Header

allstarjim : 8/16/2018 5:08 pm
Game 1 - Nimmo already out when he got hit on the hand on a check swing, was in a great deal of pain. Game tied 3-3 top 4. Oswalt on the mound for Mets vs Ranger Suarez for Phils. Oswalt has given up solo bombs to Hoskins, Franco, and Nick Williams. Rosario hit a lead off jack in the first to straight away center.

Lineups - Mets

SS Rosario
CF A Jackson
1B Flores
LF Conforto
3B Frazier
RF Nimmo Bautista
2B Reyes
C Plawecki
P Oswalt

Phillies

2B Hernandez
1B Bour
SS AsCab
LF Hoskins
RF N. Williams
3B Franco
CF Herrera
C Alfaro
P Suarez

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If the Mets  
CMicks3110 : 8/16/2018 10:54 pm : link
signed Harper, then I'd trade Conforto for something significant. It doesn't make sense to have Bruce, Nimmo, Conforto, Harper and eventually Cespedes in the same outfield. We really need a power righty bat, hopefully Alonso can provide that too.
We need  
CMicks3110 : 8/16/2018 10:55 pm : link
bullpen help too. Dream scenario would be to sign Kimbrel and Machado, and lock up Jake and Wheeler. Then we're pretty set.
RE: We need  
Metnut : 8/16/2018 11:00 pm : link
In comment 14041223 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
bullpen help too. Dream scenario would be to sign Kimbrel and Machado, and lock up Jake and Wheeler. Then we're pretty set.


If we added some real top end bullpen arms, I’d feel more comfortable rolling the dice with the in-house starters and maybe just adding a #5 type this offseason to compete in camp. I think Lugo is our 4th best starter, so hopefully we can move him out of the pen.
RE: We need more pitching to contend in 2019  
ZGiants98 : 8/16/2018 11:01 pm : link
In comment 14041219 Metnut said:
Quote:
there’s no upper pitching depth in the minors. Matz isn’t good and is always hurt. Vargas and Oswalt aren’t real options for a contending team. Maybe Lugo or Gsellmen can start but i don’t think there’s enough pitching talent in-house.


Disagree big time. We have the third best rotation in the league this year with Thor missing a huge chunk again (non chronic ticky tack stuff), Matz hitting a wall and pitching awful of late.. Vargas a disaster or hurt pretty much all year (seems to finally be turning a corner).. The truth is back end rotation pieces dont pitch as many innings as your top three guys and many backend pieces are interchangeable throughout the year with guys in AAA. You cant tell me that some combination of Lugo, Matz, Owalt, Vargas cant fill out a backend when you have arguably the best top 3 in the business. This team has some major issues and using limited resources to make the third best thing in the league better doesnt make a whole of sense to me. This team needs offense offense offense offense offense... and obviously the pen needs work as well. Finally somebody like Dunn is in AA. Its not completely unreasonable he could be depth at some point next year either.
I hope Nimmo  
Metnut : 8/16/2018 11:01 pm : link
is ok. His recent hot streak has been the most positive thing for me this week (need to see more from Rosario to get excited).

Hopefully Conforto is next. Had a good day today too.
RE: If the Mets  
ZGiants98 : 8/16/2018 11:04 pm : link
In comment 14041221 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
signed Harper, then I'd trade Conforto for something significant. It doesn't make sense to have Bruce, Nimmo, Conforto, Harper and eventually Cespedes in the same outfield. We really need a power righty bat, hopefully Alonso can provide that too.


I dont think Cespedes is ever playing the OF again. They were on record saying Cespedes would transition to 1B BEFORE he decided to have "questionable surgery" on both feet. If he ever plays again he will be a part time player and fill in at 1B with Alonso a little. At this point we need to forget about Cespedes though. He is no longer a guy that should ever even be mentioned as somebody that is part of anything moving forward. He was a horrid signing and its time to move on. Swap Bruce for McGee in Colorado and your OF is Conforto-Nimmo-Harper. It could definitely work.
RE: I hope Nimmo  
ZGiants98 : 8/16/2018 11:05 pm : link
In comment 14041229 Metnut said:
Quote:
is ok. His recent hot streak has been the most positive thing for me this week (need to see more from Rosario to get excited).

Hopefully Conforto is next. Had a good day today too.


Nimmo used to put up these video game hot streaks in the minors at times and usually a nagging injury would set him back... Feel like this is the major league version of that... He was RED HOT.
RE: RE: If the Mets  
allstarjim : 8/16/2018 11:31 pm : link
In comment 14041231 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14041221 CMicks3110 said:


Quote:


signed Harper, then I'd trade Conforto for something significant. It doesn't make sense to have Bruce, Nimmo, Conforto, Harper and eventually Cespedes in the same outfield. We really need a power righty bat, hopefully Alonso can provide that too.



I dont think Cespedes is ever playing the OF again. They were on record saying Cespedes would transition to 1B BEFORE he decided to have "questionable surgery" on both feet. If he ever plays again he will be a part time player and fill in at 1B with Alonso a little. At this point we need to forget about Cespedes though. He is no longer a guy that should ever even be mentioned as somebody that is part of anything moving forward. He was a horrid signing and its time to move on. Swap Bruce for McGee in Colorado and your OF is Conforto-Nimmo-Harper. It could definitely work.


Of all the pointless things to talk about Harper to the Mets I think is the most pointless.

Harper is combustible in Washington D.C., in NY he'd be a absolute circus. He would fit into that locker room like a hand grenade, with worse aftermath. And for money that the Wilpons would never spend. And if they did, say goodbye to Wheeler, deGrom, and Thor, because they AND Harper aren't going to get paid.

This team needs Alonso. It needs Nimmo, Conforto, and Rosario to play like they are now. It needs McNeil to be the guy at 2B. I love watching this aggressive baserunning, putting the ball in play, and keep the line moving offense. It works. You can have your 200 K, 40 HR, all or nothing guys. That hasn't worked.
RE: RE: If the Mets  
allstarjim : 8/16/2018 11:34 pm : link
In comment 14041231 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14041221 CMicks3110 said:


Quote:


signed Harper, then I'd trade Conforto for something significant. It doesn't make sense to have Bruce, Nimmo, Conforto, Harper and eventually Cespedes in the same outfield. We really need a power righty bat, hopefully Alonso can provide that too.



I dont think Cespedes is ever playing the OF again. They were on record saying Cespedes would transition to 1B BEFORE he decided to have "questionable surgery" on both feet. If he ever plays again he will be a part time player and fill in at 1B with Alonso a little. At this point we need to forget about Cespedes though. He is no longer a guy that should ever even be mentioned as somebody that is part of anything moving forward. He was a horrid signing and its time to move on. Swap Bruce for McGee in Colorado and your OF is Conforto-Nimmo-Harper. It could definitely work.


Cespedes should get traded to an AL team to DH if all he is now is a first baseman. Alonso is the future at 1B. I'd like to see how Cespedes' recovery goes and how he runs when his feet are healed. I heard he had a lot of shit in those feet they took out. Maybe his career is over, maybe he can play first or DH, or maybe he makes a full recovery and can be our LFer when he heals up. I'd like to withhold judgement.
RE: RE: RE: If the Mets  
ZGiants98 : 8/16/2018 11:44 pm : link
In comment 14041238 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14041231 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 14041221 CMicks3110 said:


Quote:


signed Harper, then I'd trade Conforto for something significant. It doesn't make sense to have Bruce, Nimmo, Conforto, Harper and eventually Cespedes in the same outfield. We really need a power righty bat, hopefully Alonso can provide that too.



I dont think Cespedes is ever playing the OF again. They were on record saying Cespedes would transition to 1B BEFORE he decided to have "questionable surgery" on both feet. If he ever plays again he will be a part time player and fill in at 1B with Alonso a little. At this point we need to forget about Cespedes though. He is no longer a guy that should ever even be mentioned as somebody that is part of anything moving forward. He was a horrid signing and its time to move on. Swap Bruce for McGee in Colorado and your OF is Conforto-Nimmo-Harper. It could definitely work.



Of all the pointless things to talk about Harper to the Mets I think is the most pointless.

Harper is combustible in Washington D.C., in NY he'd be a absolute circus. He would fit into that locker room like a hand grenade, with worse aftermath. And for money that the Wilpons would never spend. And if they did, say goodbye to Wheeler, deGrom, and Thor, because they AND Harper aren't going to get paid.

This team needs Alonso. It needs Nimmo, Conforto, and Rosario to play like they are now. It needs McNeil to be the guy at 2B. I love watching this aggressive baserunning, putting the ball in play, and keep the line moving offense. It works. You can have your 200 K, 40 HR, all or nothing guys. That hasn't worked.


I dont believe any of this is true. First of all, lets say Harper gets 30 million a year for 10 years. A true 300 million+ dollar deal.... Cespedes and Wright are both getting paid 45 million dollars AV together PER YEAR. Both are off the books completely in two years (Thank God) Thor and deGrom wont be cashing in to well passed that. They absolutely can sign Harper and backload him a little bit. They have about 20-50 million to spend anyway with just whats coming off the books this year (and maybe a creative trade or two.... Frazier ahem...) Second of all.. the Harper stuff is so overblown. 100 out of 100 Nats fans would take him back in a heartbeat. Harper also always gushes about the Mets pitching. I dont think he's half as bad as the "persona" he tries to portray.

Anyways... my overall point is we need a bonafide all star hitter in the middle of the lineup.. Harper... Machado... trade for Carpenter... Whoever. We need something to get back on track and major hitter is it.
RE: RE: RE: If the Mets  
ZGiants98 : 8/16/2018 11:46 pm : link
In comment 14041239 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14041231 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 14041221 CMicks3110 said:


Quote:


signed Harper, then I'd trade Conforto for something significant. It doesn't make sense to have Bruce, Nimmo, Conforto, Harper and eventually Cespedes in the same outfield. We really need a power righty bat, hopefully Alonso can provide that too.



I dont think Cespedes is ever playing the OF again. They were on record saying Cespedes would transition to 1B BEFORE he decided to have "questionable surgery" on both feet. If he ever plays again he will be a part time player and fill in at 1B with Alonso a little. At this point we need to forget about Cespedes though. He is no longer a guy that should ever even be mentioned as somebody that is part of anything moving forward. He was a horrid signing and its time to move on. Swap Bruce for McGee in Colorado and your OF is Conforto-Nimmo-Harper. It could definitely work.



Cespedes should get traded to an AL team to DH if all he is now is a first baseman. Alonso is the future at 1B. I'd like to see how Cespedes' recovery goes and how he runs when his feet are healed. I heard he had a lot of shit in those feet they took out. Maybe his career is over, maybe he can play first or DH, or maybe he makes a full recovery and can be our LFer when he heals up. I'd like to withhold judgement.


Who's trading for him? He may miss the majority of next season and then he has one year left. He is completely immoveable and we wouldnt even have a shot to trade him until 2020. Just forget about him. He sucks and he's finished.
Also, how is Harper a all of nothing guy?  
ZGiants98 : 8/16/2018 11:53 pm : link
.279 career average, almost a .400 career OBP? He's one the best players in the game not named Trout and because he plays on the east coast he's a bigger star IMO. Also only 25 years old. He's younger than McNeil. Think about that for a second...
I wonder if we need to consider  
Metnut : 8/17/2018 9:03 am : link
moving Matz to the bullpen. Two years running now and it looks like he'll end up with a FIP right near 5 as a starter again. Just not good enough IMO. Guess we'll have to see how the rest of this year plays out.
RE: I wonder if we need to consider  
spike : 8/17/2018 9:09 am : link
In comment 14041319 Metnut said:
Quote:
moving Matz to the bullpen. Two years running now and it looks like he'll end up with a FIP right near 5 as a starter again. Just not good enough IMO. Guess we'll have to see how the rest of this year plays out.


Not before Vargas!
Oswalt's FIP is near 6..  
Metnut : 8/17/2018 9:10 am : link
He's striking out less than 6 guys per 9 innings. Negative WAR. Yuck.

I really hope the new GM doesn't go into camp next year thinking these two (Oswalt and Matz, and Vargas for that matter) can be counted on for anything. Can't we do better? Why not try and do better?

At some point, given how baseball goes, one or more of the big 3 will have to miss some time in 2019. We'd be looking at complete disaster if this happens. The organization needs to add pitching for 2019 since the minor league system has failed to produce viable arms in-house.

The way I see it...  
Metnut : 8/17/2018 9:17 am : link
We're going to have to roll with Nimmo and Conforto as our corner OFs. Lagares as 4th OF. We need a CF. I really like AJ Pollock but need to read more whether he can stick in CF over a new deal.

For better or worse, Rosario is coming back next year. That still leaves holes at 3B, 2B, 1B and C. Frazier, McNeil and Bruce/Flores are OK backup options at those spots, but none really profile as above average MLB players (with the possible exception of McNeil).

I really think we need an IF upgrade and a catcher too. I think 1B is the position I'm most likely to leave alone. Bruce stinks but him and flores can platoon and at least hold the spot for Alonso.

We have 3 starting pitchers we can hopefully count on (assuming Wheeler doesn't regress in 2019). I'm OK trying to fill 5th starter in-house (Lugo?), but leaving 2/5 of the spots to this is just too risky IMO. Also need a complete infusion of talent in the bullpen and that's not going to be cheap.

Amazing how thin this roster is and the new GM will really have his work cut out for him after the job this front office has done.
the new gm just needs money to operate  
Eric on Li : 8/17/2018 9:46 am : link
it's really that simple on the field. Managing the Wilpons and creating a coherent/functioning organization is the challenge.

Sign a legitimate everyday catcher like Grandal (he's better against righties so he'd be a good combo with Plawecki too)

Trade for or sign an upgrade in the OF. Ideally, it's a CF upgrade like Pollock. But you could probably get by with Nimmo in CF if it's at least a very good defensive COF.

Sign the 2 best players you can in the BP. Buying slightly low on Familia and Miller would be my preferences.

At best you're probably looking at an 85ish win wild card team next year, and the chance to hopefully continue adding to become a 90+ winner in 2020. Turning things around in 1 year is unrealistic unless they really go on a massive spending binge.
RE: RE: RE: If the Mets  
gmenatlarge : 8/17/2018 12:36 pm : link
In comment 14041238 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14041231 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 14041221 CMicks3110 said:


Quote:


signed Harper, then I'd trade Conforto for something significant. It doesn't make sense to have Bruce, Nimmo, Conforto, Harper and eventually Cespedes in the same outfield. We really need a power righty bat, hopefully Alonso can provide that too.



I dont think Cespedes is ever playing the OF again. They were on record saying Cespedes would transition to 1B BEFORE he decided to have "questionable surgery" on both feet. If he ever plays again he will be a part time player and fill in at 1B with Alonso a little. At this point we need to forget about Cespedes though. He is no longer a guy that should ever even be mentioned as somebody that is part of anything moving forward. He was a horrid signing and its time to move on. Swap Bruce for McGee in Colorado and your OF is Conforto-Nimmo-Harper. It could definitely work.



Of all the pointless things to talk about Harper to the Mets I think is the most pointless.

Harper is combustible in Washington D.C., in NY he'd be a absolute circus. He would fit into that locker room like a hand grenade, with worse aftermath. And for money that the Wilpons would never spend. And if they did, say goodbye to Wheeler, deGrom, and Thor, because they AND Harper aren't going to get paid.

This team needs Alonso. It needs Nimmo, Conforto, and Rosario to play like they are now. It needs McNeil to be the guy at 2B. I love watching this aggressive baserunning, putting the ball in play, and keep the line moving offense. It works. You can have your 200 K, 40 HR, all or nothing guys. That hasn't worked.


Totally agree on Harper ain't happening nohow, no way! Why do people keep bringing it up, for that matter neither is Machado! Why would they anyway?
Because as ludicrous as it ALWAYS is to Mets fans  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2018 2:20 pm : link
For us to ever be in on a big free agents, it happens over and over and over again (Piazza, Beltran, Santana, Wright, Cespedes, etc). Piazza’s contract was actually the largest contract ever at the time of its signing. Unlikely?? Absolutely. But the truth is we have no idea. Even Shecky admitted if he had to guess the front office was likely discussing going after a premium target.
well Piazza was unfortunately doubleday  
bhill410 : 8/17/2018 3:08 pm : link
whereas the Wilpons didnt want to sign him.

And we got stuck with the wilpons.
RE: well Piazza was unfortunately doubleday  
ZGiants98 : 8/17/2018 3:15 pm : link
In comment 14041633 bhill410 said:
Quote:
whereas the Wilpons didnt want to sign him.

And we got stuck with the wilpons.


The Wilpon’s were still 50/50 owners at the time and signed off... Regardless of who the initiator was. They also just gave out the highest AAV to any player in baseball two years ago.
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