I'm in the very small minority that thinks that although it wasn't handled well by McAdoo, the plan last year was fine and Eli's reaction to it (benching himself) was what made it such an ordeal.
Don't want to argue that viewpoint on this thread for the hundredth time though.
agreed 100 percent, wvery other team would of done the same thing to see what they have in the 2 back ups....giants fans and media blew it way out of proportion
This is probably the right place for me to poke fun at all of my defenses of Perry Fewell.
I still don't think he was THAT bad... the defensive talent was horrendous for most of the time he was here and we did win a Super Bowl with him as DC. Needless to say, there were many arguments. :)
My old man and I were walking through Candlestick for NFCC in 11, line to get in was a bear and already started raining. Hurrying through lower level to get to our seats, and Perry Fewell is getting into the field access elevator. A 9ers fan recognizes him and says "you better bring it" and Fewell just looks at him with this smirk.
I could never tell if I liked him or hated him, but somehow he summoned up some serious D in that run and no one can take that away from him.
The one thing I posted over and over here when Perry was let go of was that the talent on that side of the football at that point in time was atrocious and that regardless of who followed him, the defense was still going to be very poor until we got some better players in here.
Spagnuolo promptly returned and fielded a historically poor defense in '15. Then, we spent tons of money there and magically became a top 5 unit the very next year.
Seeing as Fewell has yet to actually get another DC job since, I'm thinking he probably wasn't a great DC. That said - the man was the coordinator in 2011 when this defense turned it up big time down the stretch and had a LOT to do with us winning that Super Bowl. The defense was also pretty solid in 2010 when he first got here.
I always just felt like the talent degenerated quickly throughout his tenure and the injuries were ridiculous too. I'm not sure many coordinators would have gotten much more out of some of those units - Spags sure didn't until he had much better players to work with.
In any event - he's the Jags DB coach now and they have one of the best (if not the best) pass defenses in all of football. So, I guess the guy at least has some sort of ability as a coach.
NFL coaching is a great depiction of promoted to the level of incompetence.
There are guys who cap at position coaching and when given the whole unit can't cut it. And the same as it goes up.
What annoyed me during the Coughlin/Reese tenure is the coordinators were really the ones taking the fall -- when things got tough a coordinator got the axe. It's the one blemish on Coughlin I feel in his time here.
It's no mystery with better players coaches look better. The Giants couldn't have handled the personnel sitaution from 2012-2016 if they tried. And I put that on both Coughlin and Reese.
NFL coaching is a great depiction of promoted to the level of incompetence.
There are guys who cap at position coaching and when given the whole unit can't cut it. And the same as it goes up.
What annoyed me during the Coughlin/Reese tenure is the coordinators were really the ones taking the fall -- when things got tough a coordinator got the axe. It's the one blemish on Coughlin I feel in his time here.
It's no mystery with better players coaches look better. The Giants couldn't have handled the personnel sitaution from 2012-2016 if they tried. And I put that on both Coughlin and Reese.
The league was evolving and he wasn't, but in a lot of ways he was right to keep his system as it was. Many of his routes had multiple options within one play, and both Eli and the receiver would have to read it the same way and react the same way.
When it worked it was a thing a beauty. When it didn't, Eli would throw the ball 40 yards down field with no one there, or toss a slant route with the receiver in a go route, oftean leading to a pick 6.
But when it worked, at times it was almost undefendable. How do you defend a play when the play isn't even set when the quarterback is under center?
And as a fan, from an entertainment perspective, it was so much more enjoyable than watching 3, 4, or 5 wide on every damn play. I attribute a lot from our two Super Bowl runs to all of this. It was always odd to see teams that played mediocre for 13 weeks become juggernauts down the stretch and winning it all, but that's what his offense allowed to happen. When it clicked, it was as good as there was in the league.
The league was evolving and he wasn't, but in a lot of ways he was right to keep his system as it was. Many of his routes had multiple options within one play, and both Eli and the receiver would have to read it the same way and react the same way.
When it worked it was a thing a beauty. When it didn't, Eli would throw the ball 40 yards down field with no one there, or toss a slant route with the receiver in a go route, oftean leading to a pick 6.
But when it worked, at times it was almost undefendable. How do you defend a play when the play isn't even set when the quarterback is under center?
And as a fan, from an entertainment perspective, it was so much more enjoyable than watching 3, 4, or 5 wide on every damn play. I attribute a lot from our two Super Bowl runs to all of this. It was always odd to see teams that played mediocre for 13 weeks become juggernauts down the stretch and winning it all, but that's what his offense allowed to happen. When it clicked, it was as good as there was in the league.
That depends on the sauce. Plain marinara sauce is not gravy. Gravy has a lot of meat in it. That's the way my grandpa explained it to me, anyway.
Tomato sauce with meat is called ragu or Bolognese in Italy. Calling it "gravy" apparently started in Northeastern Italian-American community and there seems to be no real understanding of the exact origin. I find the whole thing funny.
I think Jerry Reese deserves more credit for the two super bowls... Â
...than most fans seem to give him. He was the boss. He has to wear the failures of 2012-2017. The same logic applies to the championships.
I agree with Greg about Simms vs. Manning. The comparison isn't very meaningful, though, because Phil lost so much time to injuries and the game has changed in ways that have made it much easier for a QB to stay on the field (Eli's unique strength).
That depends on the sauce. Plain marinara sauce is not gravy. Gravy has a lot of meat in it. That's the way my grandpa explained it to me, anyway.
Tomato sauce with meat is called ragu or Bolognese in Italy. Calling it "gravy" apparently started in Northeastern Italian-American community and there seems to be no real understanding of the exact origin. I find the whole thing funny.
I make 2 kinds of pasta sauce. Short, to the table in 30 minute recipe and day long recipe.
I like using the term gravy to differentiate, plus, my long sauce has a half pound of country style ribs disintegrated in it, it's damn near pulled pork. Vegan's fuck off!
Calling meat sauce "gravy" was likely just a function of assimilation in late 19th/early 20th century Italian immigrant families. They were trying to use English equivalents for Italian things, that's all.
Calling meat sauce "gravy" was likely just a function of assimilation in late 19th/early 20th century Italian immigrant families. They were trying to use English equivalents for Italian things, that's all.
Yeah, you're right, it's not really complicated. The humor to me is when people say, "Real Italians call it gravy!" while it's very much a regional American thing and there's no Italian word for gravy.
Fans always looking to bring in or trade for some used up player that Â
Calling meat sauce "gravy" was likely just a function of assimilation in late 19th/early 20th century Italian immigrant families. They were trying to use English equivalents for Italian things, that's all.
Yeah, you're right, it's not really complicated. The humor to me is when people say, "Real Italians call it gravy!" while it's very much a regional American thing and there's no Italian word for gravy.
I always thought he had the tools and the skills to be a good quarterback and he did show flashes of being a good QB and had some good games. He was hampered by a coach that hated him, a bad OL and the worst receivers in Giant's history.
In a perverse way he's the polar opposite of Eli. In the view of Giant fans none of the offensive problems they've had these last years are Eli's fault. In Brown's time, every problem they had was his fault.
I don't know how good Dave Brown might have been Â
Most of these can have good arguments made on either side. Not that one. Give me one example of a bad call, in a situation like that, where a coach yelling and screaming got the refs to overrule themselves and correct the call.
RE: What is something you disagree with most Giants fans about? Â
That depends on the sauce. Plain marinara sauce is not gravy. Gravy has a lot of meat in it. That's the way my grandpa explained it to me, anyway.
Tomato sauce with meat is called ragu or Bolognese in Italy. Calling it "gravy" apparently started in Northeastern Italian-American community and there seems to be no real understanding of the exact origin. I find the whole thing funny.
I make 2 kinds of pasta sauce. Short, to the table in 30 minute recipe and day long recipe.
I like using the term gravy to differentiate, plus, my long sauce has a half pound of country style ribs disintegrated in it, it's damn near pulled pork. Vegan's fuck off!
You are correct, "gravy" started in the NE and is definitely a regional thing.
That said...
In my family:
Marinara - no met at all
Bolognese - sauteed ground beef in the sauce
Ragu - Has meatballs
Gravy - Has lots of different chunky meats, Meatballs, Pork, Beef, and usually Braciole
My family tradition is Gravy!!! Its awesome!
I haven't done it in a while, but my son is 5 now so I recently made up a traditional batch. He went crazy for it!
Most of these can have good arguments made on either side. Not that one. Give me one example of a bad call, in a situation like that, where a coach yelling and screaming got the refs to overrule themselves and correct the call.
Giants vs. Saints 2015, the 101 point game.
Wing getting called for a 15-yard facemask after refs initially said there was no foul on the play but then called the penalty on Wing after Payton complained. This all happening with 20-odd seconds to go.
Of course that led to the game winning FG as time expired. At least thats how I remember it.
I am with Rebel Yell I hate Dallas more. Not that it diminishes my hate for the Eagles. Call them 1A and 1B. In Washington's heyday I had great respect for them. They were a classy team that played tough hard nosed football, much like the Giants did (one exception was that Theismann was a whiny bitch). Recently they are too pathetic to bother hating.
I don't think Fassel argued enough.... But, I don't think it would have changed the call.
I agree with Mike from Long Beach's take on Gilbride. When his system worked it was a thing of beauty. We had our best offensive years in at least my memory back to the early 70s, under that system. But, it did lead to some famous inconsistency, both on the part of the receivers and Eli.
I also don't think the line is anywhere close to fixed... Better is all I hope for.
I didn't think Fewell was a completely incompetent DC either... On the other hand, he was not a mad genius that could make chicken soup out of chicken feathers either. Perhaps a bit below average...
Simms vs. Manning... Different eras, really hard to compare. Especially since Simms' career was always being interrupted by insane coaches thinking some other QB on the team was better (they weren't). Without the interruptions, no Doubt that Simms would be in the Hall. One thing similar about Simms and Manning, they are both maddeningly inconsistent. Overall, the difference in my mind is razor thin.
Here are some of my personal ones (don't want to restart the debates!!!)
The OL is far more critical to offensive success than anything (and I mean anything) a RB can do.
There is a place for advanced analytics when making decisions about team composition and salaries. And positional value matters.
That Webb wasn't played by McAdoo last year because he was no good... Webb wasn't played because it was a redshirt year, and McAdoo didn't think any deeper than that. Webb not playing last year has absolutely nothing to with whether he is capable of becoming our next QB or not. Note: I am rooting for Webb but I am neither convinced nor unconvinced of his potential. Last week wasn't good, lets see how he does the rest of the preseason. If he continues to suck, including next preseason (he isn't going to get cut this year), I have no problem moving on.
I'm with you. I think he can be an asset. Not a Pro Bowler, but a serviceable starting RT.
Flowers may be serviceable someday... But I doubt it's for the Giants. I think his head is just too messed up here. To have any chance he needs a fresh start.
That said the lack of balance, hand placement, flexibility and anticipation he has makes me believe that he is unlikely to ever improve very much. I have a hard time reconciling the triple whiff play with being anything more than a backup...
I am with Rebel Yell I hate Dallas more. Not that it diminishes my hate for the Eagles. Call them 1A and 1B. In Washington's heyday I had great respect for them. They were a classy team that played tough hard nosed football, much like the Giants did (one exception was that Theismann was a whiny bitch). Recently they are too pathetic to bother hating.
I don't think Fassel argued enough.... But, I don't think it would have changed the call.
I agree with Mike from Long Beach's take on Gilbride. When his system worked it was a thing of beauty. We had our best offensive years in at least my memory back to the early 70s, under that system. But, it did lead to some famous inconsistency, both on the part of the receivers and Eli.
I also don't think the line is anywhere close to fixed... Better is all I hope for.
I didn't think Fewell was a completely incompetent DC either... On the other hand, he was not a mad genius that could make chicken soup out of chicken feathers either. Perhaps a bit below average...
Simms vs. Manning... Different eras, really hard to compare. Especially since Simms' career was always being interrupted by insane coaches thinking some other QB on the team was better (they weren't). Without the interruptions, no Doubt that Simms would be in the Hall. One thing similar about Simms and Manning, they are both maddeningly inconsistent. Overall, the difference in my mind is razor thin.
Here are some of my personal ones (don't want to restart the debates!!!)
The OL is far more critical to offensive success than anything (and I mean anything) a RB can do.
There is a place for advanced analytics when making decisions about team composition and salaries. And positional value matters.
That Webb wasn't played by McAdoo last year because he was no good... Webb wasn't played because it was a redshirt year, and McAdoo didn't think any deeper than that. Webb not playing last year has absolutely nothing to with whether he is capable of becoming our next QB or not. Note: I am rooting for Webb but I am neither convinced nor unconvinced of his potential. Last week wasn't good, lets see how he does the rest of the preseason. If he continues to suck, including next preseason (he isn't going to get cut this year), I have no problem moving on.
Also, I am first and foremost a Giants fan... My comment on RBs does not reflect that I am rooting against Barkley. Quite the contrary, he is a Giant now and I am rooting for him to light it up. I hope he can prove me wrong.
And if he does great things, don't be surprised if I get excited about it!
Gilbride's offense was better than McAdoo's, but it often required Â
a five-step drop and the offensive line was no longer able to hold for that length of time. I never thought Eli was an elite quarterback. His arm was average at best. His release was never instantaneous and his velocity was no better than average. He succeeded at times because the Giants had great receivers and Eli had great rapport with these receivers. His career numbers are due to longevity, not better than average talent. Giants fans tend to forget, or not know, that his record as a starter is a very average 111-103.
Most of these can have good arguments made on either side. Not that one. Give me one example of a bad call, in a situation like that, where a coach yelling and screaming got the refs to overrule themselves and correct the call.
Giants vs. Saints 2015, the 101 point game.
Wing getting called for a 15-yard facemask after refs initially said there was no foul on the play but then called the penalty on Wing after Payton complained. This all happening with 20-odd seconds to go.
Of course that led to the game winning FG as time expired. At least thats how I remember it.
The SF game was a clusterfuk on all sides.
But with all that happened with the Giant collapse, it could and should have been mitigated thru a level-setting of the rules on that particular play...a calmness to the refs to realize they need to keep the players on the field until they sort thru what happened...and if done properly on site, a final untimed play would have been given since the game cannot end on such a penalty. We would have had a chance to kick the FG again and walk away with a win versus leave with an epic loss.
Fassel and the players left that field because they were embarrassed...and we ALL LOST.
RE: RE: What is something you disagree with most Giants fans about? Â
I'm in the very small minority that thinks that although it wasn't handled well by McAdoo, the plan last year was fine and Eli's reaction to it (benching himself) was what made it such an ordeal.
Don't want to argue that viewpoint on this thread for the hundredth time though.
Living here has made it easy to compartmentalize the difference between the city and the Eagles. Don't get me wrong, I despise that team. I'd bet those of us who live in the area hate them more than the average Giants fan. But I love the city. Much more than NYC to be honest.
I do not care about who we passed on. I am tired of the constant posts about how everyone is doing in Training Camp and Preseason. Should all be NGT at least.
Of course the Eli benching could have been handled better, but giving Geno a start when the team was 2-9 was not a big deal. A couple factors no one on BBI considers:
1. Still young
2. Was a high 2nd round pick
3. I’d assume he was a good teammate all year & put in his time practicing
Since he failed as a Jet, that put a bad taste in people’s mouth. But, there’s no reason he shouldn’t have gotten a chance in a lost season.
Aqua Giants: Do you mean overrated or overvalued? Harrison is surely among the very best at what he does. But when a defense can’t get off the field on third and long, the value of a premier run-stuffer is severely diminished. Maybe the addition of situational pass-rushers like Carter and Barwin will help convert the positive down/distance situations Harrison creates into actual stops.
severely underrate quality NFL coaching. There’s a lot of bad college coaching and that bleeds over into being obsessed with scouting reports, and hating anyone who isn’t “pro-ready” based on the shitty coaching they likely got, especially if it’s from a smaller program.
I’m sure McAdoo has left many jaded, but he’s gone, be open minded.
Most of these can have good arguments made on either side. Not that one. Give me one example of a bad call, in a situation like that, where a coach yelling and screaming got the refs to overrule themselves and correct the call.
That was not your typical play. The league actually apologized and said the refs had it wrong. They called ineligible man down field as an offsetting penalty but the player had been declared as an eligible receiver. A discussion putting that out to the refs and refusal to leave the field might certainly have changed things.
Even if it hadn't it was the coaches duty to at least try. Not Fassel's finest moment to be sure.
RE: Phil Simms was a better quarterback than Eli Manning Â
When Simms was at his peak and not injured? Perhaps. But no doubt ? Please.
Eli was winning division titles and Super Bowls before Simms even made a mark on the Nfl. That’s a huge, understated component to this debate. And I have a hard time saying peak Simms was better than peak Eli. People like to gloss over how good Eli was from 07-12.
RE: RE: You don’t dump the baby out with the bath water Â
The past five years have been nothing but bath water.
Want to know who my favorite players on the team are? Eli and the rookies.
Right. Let’s dump Shepard, Beckham, snacks, Vernon, thomlinson, gallman, Collins, Jenkins, Goodson, Engram and Ellison but by all means keep that 7th round rookie because he wasn’t part of the problem in 2017.
Gets a bad rap because of the super bowl and 49ers debacle but he was also responsible for some amazing wins especially with the 97 team with an offense of no names and rookies
So you go out of your way to defend a mediocre head coach but obliterate Eli Manning whenever the opportunity presents itself. Rich.
Not if you know how to watch a run stuffing DT play. Snacks always disengages from his blocker(s) and disrupts things. Always. That’s why he’s awesome. Watch him in the trenches and see the way he always uses his hands to disengage from blocks. That’s nearly impossible to do consistently yet snacks does just that.
How do you explain the Eagles running on the Giants the way they did in the early game? I don't know if it was scheme or what but so if he wasn't out there (snacks) the defense would be on the high school level is what you are saying? Just throwing things out there.
Don't want to argue that viewpoint on this thread for the hundredth time though.
agreed 100 percent, wvery other team would of done the same thing to see what they have in the 2 back ups....giants fans and media blew it way out of proportion
Quote:
This is probably the right place for me to poke fun at all of my defenses of Perry Fewell.
I still don't think he was THAT bad... the defensive talent was horrendous for most of the time he was here and we did win a Super Bowl with him as DC. Needless to say, there were many arguments. :)
My old man and I were walking through Candlestick for NFCC in 11, line to get in was a bear and already started raining. Hurrying through lower level to get to our seats, and Perry Fewell is getting into the field access elevator. A 9ers fan recognizes him and says "you better bring it" and Fewell just looks at him with this smirk.
I could never tell if I liked him or hated him, but somehow he summoned up some serious D in that run and no one can take that away from him.
The one thing I posted over and over here when Perry was let go of was that the talent on that side of the football at that point in time was atrocious and that regardless of who followed him, the defense was still going to be very poor until we got some better players in here.
Spagnuolo promptly returned and fielded a historically poor defense in '15. Then, we spent tons of money there and magically became a top 5 unit the very next year.
Seeing as Fewell has yet to actually get another DC job since, I'm thinking he probably wasn't a great DC. That said - the man was the coordinator in 2011 when this defense turned it up big time down the stretch and had a LOT to do with us winning that Super Bowl. The defense was also pretty solid in 2010 when he first got here.
I always just felt like the talent degenerated quickly throughout his tenure and the injuries were ridiculous too. I'm not sure many coordinators would have gotten much more out of some of those units - Spags sure didn't until he had much better players to work with.
In any event - he's the Jags DB coach now and they have one of the best (if not the best) pass defenses in all of football. So, I guess the guy at least has some sort of ability as a coach.
There are guys who cap at position coaching and when given the whole unit can't cut it. And the same as it goes up.
What annoyed me during the Coughlin/Reese tenure is the coordinators were really the ones taking the fall -- when things got tough a coordinator got the axe. It's the one blemish on Coughlin I feel in his time here.
It's no mystery with better players coaches look better. The Giants couldn't have handled the personnel sitaution from 2012-2016 if they tried. And I put that on both Coughlin and Reese.
There are guys who cap at position coaching and when given the whole unit can't cut it. And the same as it goes up.
What annoyed me during the Coughlin/Reese tenure is the coordinators were really the ones taking the fall -- when things got tough a coordinator got the axe. It's the one blemish on Coughlin I feel in his time here.
It's no mystery with better players coaches look better. The Giants couldn't have handled the personnel sitaution from 2012-2016 if they tried. And I put that on both Coughlin and Reese.
Agreed.
When it worked it was a thing a beauty. When it didn't, Eli would throw the ball 40 yards down field with no one there, or toss a slant route with the receiver in a go route, oftean leading to a pick 6.
But when it worked, at times it was almost undefendable. How do you defend a play when the play isn't even set when the quarterback is under center?
And as a fan, from an entertainment perspective, it was so much more enjoyable than watching 3, 4, or 5 wide on every damn play. I attribute a lot from our two Super Bowl runs to all of this. It was always odd to see teams that played mediocre for 13 weeks become juggernauts down the stretch and winning it all, but that's what his offense allowed to happen. When it clicked, it was as good as there was in the league.
That depends on the sauce. Plain marinara sauce is not gravy. Gravy has a lot of meat in it. That's the way my grandpa explained it to me, anyway.
When it worked it was a thing a beauty. When it didn't, Eli would throw the ball 40 yards down field with no one there, or toss a slant route with the receiver in a go route, oftean leading to a pick 6.
But when it worked, at times it was almost undefendable. How do you defend a play when the play isn't even set when the quarterback is under center?
And as a fan, from an entertainment perspective, it was so much more enjoyable than watching 3, 4, or 5 wide on every damn play. I attribute a lot from our two Super Bowl runs to all of this. It was always odd to see teams that played mediocre for 13 weeks become juggernauts down the stretch and winning it all, but that's what his offense allowed to happen. When it clicked, it was as good as there was in the league.
Accurate summary.
Quote:
think tomato sauce is called gravy.
That depends on the sauce. Plain marinara sauce is not gravy. Gravy has a lot of meat in it. That's the way my grandpa explained it to me, anyway.
Tomato sauce with meat is called ragu or Bolognese in Italy. Calling it "gravy" apparently started in Northeastern Italian-American community and there seems to be no real understanding of the exact origin. I find the whole thing funny.
I agree with Greg about Simms vs. Manning. The comparison isn't very meaningful, though, because Phil lost so much time to injuries and the game has changed in ways that have made it much easier for a QB to stay on the field (Eli's unique strength).
Quote:
In comment 14041359 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
think tomato sauce is called gravy.
That depends on the sauce. Plain marinara sauce is not gravy. Gravy has a lot of meat in it. That's the way my grandpa explained it to me, anyway.
Tomato sauce with meat is called ragu or Bolognese in Italy. Calling it "gravy" apparently started in Northeastern Italian-American community and there seems to be no real understanding of the exact origin. I find the whole thing funny.
I like using the term gravy to differentiate, plus, my long sauce has a half pound of country style ribs disintegrated in it, it's damn near pulled pork. Vegan's fuck off!
The 'ny' helmets look cooler.
I don't like cornhole.
Yeah, you're right, it's not really complicated. The humor to me is when people say, "Real Italians call it gravy!" while it's very much a regional American thing and there's no Italian word for gravy.
Quote:
Calling meat sauce "gravy" was likely just a function of assimilation in late 19th/early 20th century Italian immigrant families. They were trying to use English equivalents for Italian things, that's all.
Yeah, you're right, it's not really complicated. The humor to me is when people say, "Real Italians call it gravy!" while it's very much a regional American thing and there's no Italian word for gravy.
It does seem to be a regional American thing, even within the greater NY area.
give me gravy! - ( New Window )
In a perverse way he's the polar opposite of Eli. In the view of Giant fans none of the offensive problems they've had these last years are Eli's fault. In Brown's time, every problem they had was his fault.
Quote:
about Fassel and the San Fran game. All of whom say Fassel couldn't have done anything...
He could have done whatever he wanted. They were never, ever going to change the call.
hence the point of this thread...
- That Eli Apple wasn't a panic move. He was and Reese fucked up.
:D holy shit
There are these things called "draft boards". If one guy is gone you take the next. They prepare for any scenario.
Quote:
In comment 14041385 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14041359 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
think tomato sauce is called gravy.
That depends on the sauce. Plain marinara sauce is not gravy. Gravy has a lot of meat in it. That's the way my grandpa explained it to me, anyway.
Tomato sauce with meat is called ragu or Bolognese in Italy. Calling it "gravy" apparently started in Northeastern Italian-American community and there seems to be no real understanding of the exact origin. I find the whole thing funny.
I make 2 kinds of pasta sauce. Short, to the table in 30 minute recipe and day long recipe.
I like using the term gravy to differentiate, plus, my long sauce has a half pound of country style ribs disintegrated in it, it's damn near pulled pork. Vegan's fuck off!
You are correct, "gravy" started in the NE and is definitely a regional thing.
That said...
In my family:
Marinara - no met at all
Bolognese - sauteed ground beef in the sauce
Ragu - Has meatballs
Gravy - Has lots of different chunky meats, Meatballs, Pork, Beef, and usually Braciole
My family tradition is Gravy!!! Its awesome!
I haven't done it in a while, but my son is 5 now so I recently made up a traditional batch. He went crazy for it!
Giants vs. Saints 2015, the 101 point game.
Wing getting called for a 15-yard facemask after refs initially said there was no foul on the play but then called the penalty on Wing after Payton complained. This all happening with 20-odd seconds to go.
Of course that led to the game winning FG as time expired. At least thats how I remember it.
I'm with you. I think he can be an asset. Not a Pro Bowler, but a serviceable starting RT.
I don't think Fassel argued enough.... But, I don't think it would have changed the call.
I agree with Mike from Long Beach's take on Gilbride. When his system worked it was a thing of beauty. We had our best offensive years in at least my memory back to the early 70s, under that system. But, it did lead to some famous inconsistency, both on the part of the receivers and Eli.
I also don't think the line is anywhere close to fixed... Better is all I hope for.
I didn't think Fewell was a completely incompetent DC either... On the other hand, he was not a mad genius that could make chicken soup out of chicken feathers either. Perhaps a bit below average...
Simms vs. Manning... Different eras, really hard to compare. Especially since Simms' career was always being interrupted by insane coaches thinking some other QB on the team was better (they weren't). Without the interruptions, no Doubt that Simms would be in the Hall. One thing similar about Simms and Manning, they are both maddeningly inconsistent. Overall, the difference in my mind is razor thin.
Here are some of my personal ones (don't want to restart the debates!!!)
The OL is far more critical to offensive success than anything (and I mean anything) a RB can do.
There is a place for advanced analytics when making decisions about team composition and salaries. And positional value matters.
That Webb wasn't played by McAdoo last year because he was no good... Webb wasn't played because it was a redshirt year, and McAdoo didn't think any deeper than that. Webb not playing last year has absolutely nothing to with whether he is capable of becoming our next QB or not. Note: I am rooting for Webb but I am neither convinced nor unconvinced of his potential. Last week wasn't good, lets see how he does the rest of the preseason. If he continues to suck, including next preseason (he isn't going to get cut this year), I have no problem moving on.
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Ducking now.
I'm with you. I think he can be an asset. Not a Pro Bowler, but a serviceable starting RT.
Flowers may be serviceable someday... But I doubt it's for the Giants. I think his head is just too messed up here. To have any chance he needs a fresh start.
That said the lack of balance, hand placement, flexibility and anticipation he has makes me believe that he is unlikely to ever improve very much. I have a hard time reconciling the triple whiff play with being anything more than a backup...
I don't think Fassel argued enough.... But, I don't think it would have changed the call.
I agree with Mike from Long Beach's take on Gilbride. When his system worked it was a thing of beauty. We had our best offensive years in at least my memory back to the early 70s, under that system. But, it did lead to some famous inconsistency, both on the part of the receivers and Eli.
I also don't think the line is anywhere close to fixed... Better is all I hope for.
I didn't think Fewell was a completely incompetent DC either... On the other hand, he was not a mad genius that could make chicken soup out of chicken feathers either. Perhaps a bit below average...
Simms vs. Manning... Different eras, really hard to compare. Especially since Simms' career was always being interrupted by insane coaches thinking some other QB on the team was better (they weren't). Without the interruptions, no Doubt that Simms would be in the Hall. One thing similar about Simms and Manning, they are both maddeningly inconsistent. Overall, the difference in my mind is razor thin.
Here are some of my personal ones (don't want to restart the debates!!!)
The OL is far more critical to offensive success than anything (and I mean anything) a RB can do.
There is a place for advanced analytics when making decisions about team composition and salaries. And positional value matters.
That Webb wasn't played by McAdoo last year because he was no good... Webb wasn't played because it was a redshirt year, and McAdoo didn't think any deeper than that. Webb not playing last year has absolutely nothing to with whether he is capable of becoming our next QB or not. Note: I am rooting for Webb but I am neither convinced nor unconvinced of his potential. Last week wasn't good, lets see how he does the rest of the preseason. If he continues to suck, including next preseason (he isn't going to get cut this year), I have no problem moving on.
Also, I am first and foremost a Giants fan... My comment on RBs does not reflect that I am rooting against Barkley. Quite the contrary, he is a Giant now and I am rooting for him to light it up. I hope he can prove me wrong.
And if he does great things, don't be surprised if I get excited about it!
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Most of these can have good arguments made on either side. Not that one. Give me one example of a bad call, in a situation like that, where a coach yelling and screaming got the refs to overrule themselves and correct the call.
Giants vs. Saints 2015, the 101 point game.
Wing getting called for a 15-yard facemask after refs initially said there was no foul on the play but then called the penalty on Wing after Payton complained. This all happening with 20-odd seconds to go.
Of course that led to the game winning FG as time expired. At least thats how I remember it.
The SF game was a clusterfuk on all sides.
But with all that happened with the Giant collapse, it could and should have been mitigated thru a level-setting of the rules on that particular play...a calmness to the refs to realize they need to keep the players on the field until they sort thru what happened...and if done properly on site, a final untimed play would have been given since the game cannot end on such a penalty. We would have had a chance to kick the FG again and walk away with a win versus leave with an epic loss.
Fassel and the players left that field because they were embarrassed...and we ALL LOST.
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- That Eli Apple wasn't a panic move. He was and Reese fucked up.
:D holy shit
There are these things called "draft boards". If one guy is gone you take the next. They prepare for any scenario.
hence the point of this thread. I think they were unprepared...
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I'm in the very small minority that thinks that although it wasn't handled well by McAdoo, the plan last year was fine and Eli's reaction to it (benching himself) was what made it such an ordeal.
Don't want to argue that viewpoint on this thread for the hundredth time though.
It might literally just be me and you bud.
It isn't.
1. Still young
2. Was a high 2nd round pick
3. I’d assume he was a good teammate all year & put in his time practicing
Since he failed as a Jet, that put a bad taste in people’s mouth. But, there’s no reason he shouldn’t have gotten a chance in a lost season.
I’m sure McAdoo has left many jaded, but he’s gone, be open minded.
That was not your typical play. The league actually apologized and said the refs had it wrong. They called ineligible man down field as an offsetting penalty but the player had been declared as an eligible receiver. A discussion putting that out to the refs and refusal to leave the field might certainly have changed things.
Even if it hadn't it was the coaches duty to at least try. Not Fassel's finest moment to be sure.
When Simms was at his peak and not injured? Perhaps. But no doubt ? Please.
Eli was winning division titles and Super Bowls before Simms even made a mark on the Nfl. That’s a huge, understated component to this debate. And I have a hard time saying peak Simms was better than peak Eli. People like to gloss over how good Eli was from 07-12.
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..
The past five years have been nothing but bath water.
Want to know who my favorite players on the team are? Eli and the rookies.
Right. Let’s dump Shepard, Beckham, snacks, Vernon, thomlinson, gallman, Collins, Jenkins, Goodson, Engram and Ellison but by all means keep that 7th round rookie because he wasn’t part of the problem in 2017.
Definitely cut Shepard and Engram.
So you go out of your way to defend a mediocre head coach but obliterate Eli Manning whenever the opportunity presents itself. Rich.
Not if you know how to watch a run stuffing DT play. Snacks always disengages from his blocker(s) and disrupts things. Always. That’s why he’s awesome. Watch him in the trenches and see the way he always uses his hands to disengage from blocks. That’s nearly impossible to do consistently yet snacks does just that.