NFT: Mets at Phillies: Thor VS Nola

Hand is fine.

Nola has really taken that next step this season.

and Austin Jackson in the 3-hole. My God, this season cant end soon enough.

play both yesterday?

Somehow I think the obscene scoring stops tonight.

is OK.

Great pitching match-up tonight. Give me 7 strong from Thor and some good ABs from Conforto and Rosario and I'll be happy win or lose.

Time to watch the Giants lol.

.

is this easy to run off of, he’ll never be a legit ace. It’s essential that he fixes this.

hadn’t attempted a steal all year!

and Kilome toss gems - back to back good starts for Peterson.

Peterson:
5 IP 2H 0ER 3BB's 5K's

Kilome (in progress):

5 IP 3H 1ER 2BB's 7K's

In comment 14041846 Rflairr said:

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Lol, you know the last time Thor gave up 4 runs?

March 29th.

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Ben Cherington, the former Red Sox GM, is a name that’s heard a lot, and that’s logical since he won a World Series as GM and is currently an assistant with the Blue Jays. Word is that Alderson recommended him for a top position before Fred Wilpon instead hired Minaya, though if Alderson — whose contract actually expires at the end of this year despite the early report in this space he went through 2019 — didn’t carry weight in the winter, it may carry less now.

Mets vascillating on old school v. new school GM - ( New Window )

is an analytics guy, no?

Wilpon has gone on record I thought as saying he wanted to move away from the heavy analytics lean in the Sandy tenure and move back to the old school scouting style GM.

In comment 14042242 pjcas18 said:

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is an analytics guy, no? Wilpon has gone on record I thought as saying he wanted to move away from the heavy analytics lean in the Sandy tenure and move back to the old school scouting style GM.

I think it's more interesting that he possibly overruled Alderson hiring Cherington as an assistant last offseason in favor of bringing Omar back - which Sandy was clearly not on board with. JMO but that's a classic example of Wilpon meddling and bringing in people they have relationships with vs. letting people do their jobs.

I just never saw any reason to have Omar back in the fold - other than typical Wilpon stupidity. He left in shame and the entire organization was a mess. I don't know what he did in the 8 years since then that bringing him back made any sense.

In comment 14042269 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 14042242 pjcas18 said: Quote: is an analytics guy, no? Wilpon has gone on record I thought as saying he wanted to move away from the heavy analytics lean in the Sandy tenure and move back to the old school scouting style GM. I think it's more interesting that he possibly overruled Alderson hiring Cherington as an assistant last offseason in favor of bringing Omar back - which Sandy was clearly not on board with. JMO but that's a classic example of Wilpon meddling and bringing in people they have relationships with vs. letting people do their jobs.

Well with Sandy's cancer and contract maybe Wilpon figured bringing in Sandy's successor a year before Sandy officially moved on was better for the transition.

Giving Fred too much credit?

I mean it's hard to compare Sandy and Omar (if those are the two choices). Both had their bright spots and both had weaknesses.

Sandy made it to a WS in 2015, Omar was a strike away in 2006.

whichever model (analytics vs traditional scouting) says extend deGrom, sign a big bat, get two elite BP pieces and roll the dice) that's the model I prefer.

it would be like the Jets bringing in Rex as DC. Yes there were some early ups, but it went off a cliff pretty quick and embarrassingly so. Omar being heir apparent was my greatest fear at the time. The fact that Sandy looked to bring in talent execs from outside was one of his greatest positives and something I wish he'd have been able to do more, especially after Depo left. He didn't fear hiring well regarded (presumably) smart people. He might have been trying to hire his own heir apparent.

And the Wilpons overruled that decision to bring back Omar.

but I guess you just have to hope you outlive Fred.

Jeff, while annoying, doesn't seem to have the chops to be as meddlesone without his father around and I doubt he has the connections/friendships his father did to save him from himself.

In either case, one playoff appearance and one WC game in 10 years of Sandy doesn't lead me to believe that's the only way to succeed.

Omar can be successful here.

In fact his teams won more games - 4 years in a row over .500 97 wins is way more than any of Sandy's teams.

Yes, he left a shit show.

I'm not even convinced Omar is the next guy, but if he is, I'm not saying he can't win.

Those are poor results any way sliced. Sandy also deserved to go but it's unfair to act like it's an apples to apples comparison when he had to deal with the madoff mess and never even got a payroll in the top 15 (including Wright's money). Omar literally had the 2nd or 3rd highest payroll most of the years he was GM and the team only got worse over time. And that's just results on the field, the off the field was even worse (rubin, bernazard, the randolph firing, etc).

Also lets not forget the farm system and player development was a mess (mejia). BA had them ranked 25th in 2010. He made 2 great picks in that last draft (Harvey/JDG) but other than that there was practically nothing to build on. Most of his 1st round picks never even played a game in the big leagues (some never even got to AAA). Brad Holt, Reese Havens, Eddie Kunz, Nathan Vineyard. Those guys were first round picks. They make Ike Davis' career look good.

gets overblown (at least the on the field stuff, which is all I really care about).

The reality is, Omar built a team that can win...and did win. Is it Omar’s fault that the team epically collapsed two years in a row after 2006? He put the winning pieces in place. That should have been a perennial playoff team.

But, this is the Mets we are talking about. And nothing ever seems to go right for the Mets.

In comment 14042518 PhiPsi125 said:

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gets overblown (at least the on the field stuff, which is all I really care about). The reality is, Omar built a team that can win...and did win. Is it Omar’s fault that the team epically collapsed two years in a row after 2006? He put the winning pieces in place. That should have been a perennial playoff team. But, this is the Mets we are talking about. And nothing ever seems to go right for the Mets.

Yes - it kind of was his fault. He signed/acquired/overpaid a lot of guys who were primary culprits for the flaws that led to those collapses. Luis Castillo, Moises Alou, Shawn Green's corpse, Oliver Perez. The managers. Delgado and Loduca got old really fast. He dealt away most of their farm system to acquire veterans so they never had young players who could step in. Those collapses weren't accidental, they were early sirens that the core of the roster had serious flaws - which is why the team's performance fell off a cliff abruptly despite continuing to add big $ guys like Krod, Santana, Bay.

One "rival exec" is convinced that Harper is going to sign with the Phillies in the offseason.

Signed Jason Bay. /thread

the Mets settled for Bay instead of ponying up for Holliday, but no one expected to Bay to be as bad as he was. Not sure if it was PEDs, concussions, getting paid, or what, but he was a different player in NY than anywhere else in his career.

Not saying it shouldn't count against Omar, it should but not quite as much as the 2007 draft.

Omar did draft Harvey, Matz, deGrom, etc. so he has some success.

Omar's last draft he oversaw (2010) was really good.

for the JJ Putz trade, and for Moises Alou.

too many walks, but decent start:

7 IP, 2H, 1ER, 4BB, 7K's

Gimenez keeps rolling, 2 for 4, batting .329 in AA.

Lindsay has some late signs of life, 2 for 4

Mauricio getting back on track after prolonged slump, 2 for 4, 1BB 1 K

Kelenic 1 for 3 with a 3B

tonight...Rosario/Plawecki stay hot... Drew Smith is has been pitching phenomenal out of the pen over a small sample...

I actually don't want Vargas to pitch well. He's a fucking dog that we never should have signed. I don't want a late season run fooling our moron front office into thinking he a part of the solution next year. He's fucking awful and should NEVER have been signed to any deal let alone 2 years.

Rant off...

With the left handed reliever Zamora. The Mets finally gave a decent left hander. Let’s hope we see more of him this season

In comment 14043606 Rob in Rockaway said:

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I actually don't want Vargas to pitch well. He's a fucking dog that we never should have signed. I don't want a late season run fooling our moron front office into thinking he a part of the solution next year. He's fucking awful and should NEVER have been signed to any deal let alone 2 years. Rant off...

He pitched a total of 53 innings this year, missed Spring Training, had to stop and start constantly due to nagging injuries on and off all year... It's not impossible, a soft tossing/timing type starter might be finally getting in a rhythm... I also dont know how he could fool anyone into anything. deGrom, Thor, Wheeler, and Matz aren't going anywhere so at most what is Vargas going to do? Convince the front office he'll be 5th starter depth next year with Oswalt, Lugo, Montero, and a host of other options? Its really not a big deal.

Offense is still alive... Pen seems to be pitching better again with a few youngsters carving out roles. It will be even better when Nimmo returns.

Id have no problem bringing back Austin Jackson next year as a backup OF with Lagares.

I know you're an optimist. What direction do you see the Mets taking this off-season. If we don't sign someone like Machado or Kimbrel. What are we doing? Is there any trade targets out there. Or do we hold fort and hope someone like Alonso emerges as the big power bat in the lineup. We're playing .500 since the all star break. We're in a weird situation. We should in theory have a ton of money to play with. How do we spend it, if we spend it?

In comment 14043648 CMicks3110 said:

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I know you're an optimist. What direction do you see the Mets taking this off-season. If we don't sign someone like Machado or Kimbrel. What are we doing? Is there any trade targets out there. Or do we hold fort and hope someone like Alonso emerges as the big power bat in the lineup. We're playing .500 since the all star break. We're in a weird situation. We should in theory have a ton of money to play with. How do we spend it, if we spend it?

Here's the deal for me. It can take younger players years to adjust to the major leagues, especially hitters. We cant depend on Alonso and McNeil and assume they wont have major growing pains next year, just like Rosario this year and Nimmo in years past. The window is closing on keeping our rotation together (or young and at peak form) but the majority of our team outside of that is still young as hell (pen/lineup particularly) so I see no benefit in "tearing down" a young team. The only logical thing to do is supplement the youngsters in the lineup with a true hitter to take the pressure off everyone else and give the rotation a damn chance. We went 5-21 in June with Thor, Familia, Cespedes and others out again which slaughtered our chances this year. We've played .500 ball all year outside of that horrid stretch. The crazy thing is our rotation was actually great during that stretch too which makes it even more difficult to understand or swallow. The O was just THAT BAD.

It all depends on who the new GM is but I move heaven, hell, and earth to get a legit all-star caliber bat in the middle of the lineup. Machado and Harper are easy solutions but in the event they have a million suitors and are too pricey we have to come up with something creative to get another franchise bat in here. It shouldn't be impossible. Teams make trades every year and we should have the ability to take on some payroll. The bullpen needs work of course and especially a closer, but that shouldn't be as difficult to mend as it will be to get a legit hitter in here and transform this lineup. If we dont go after a hitter Im going to seriously question the direction of this franchise. I was on board with the rebuild under Sandy. I understood it. I also felt the time was right when we went after Cespedes and that should have opened a competing window where you supplement smaller pieces to keep everything going and in place. Unfortunately, we were ravaged by injuries and Cespedes has been a bust but the foundation is still there. Replace Cespedes. We have the money and the youth. You dont just give up. Go get a bat.

Mets can sign Herrera or Familia, swap Bruce for McGee.. maybe add another setup option too and Ill feel great about the pen again.

and is signed through 2019 (2 mil buyout on a 2020 option). The Cardinals look like they might be re-tooling/rebuilding a bit going into next year and I could see them floating him possibly. (completely just throwing names out)