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After rewatching Webb's 20 throws (OL play)

dep026 : 8/18/2018 9:22 am
I am confused about the outrage of the pass blocking, especially Flowers. Out of the 20 throws, there were 3 throws where I felt the OL didnt get him enough time to make a read.

1. The obvious where the right side blocked no one and almost caused a fumble. Both Flowers and Oma looked bad.
2. Naked bootleg on the Latimer PI in the end zone.
3. Oma getting beat inside with 20 seconds to go in the half.

The 17 other throws there was a pocket and time for Webb to survey the field. Many of those times, it looked like Flowers had excellent positions and stoned his guy. Now out of the 17, pressure eventually came, but for the most part I thought Webb has a clean pocket which gave him an opportunity to make some really nice throws down the field. The pass blocking on Russel Shepards big play was beautiful.

I saw some hand wringing after the OL play, but I didnt think it was nearly as bad as was talked about. This could be very encouraging going forward!
I watched Malcom Bunche for a few plays  
Jay on the Island : 8/18/2018 9:25 am : link
Carl Banks picked mentioned him last week for his solid play. He doesn't look pretty doing it but he seems to do a great job at LT. I would like to see him get some time versus 2nd teamers.
I agree  
mushroom : 8/18/2018 9:33 am : link
That one play Flowers looked so horrible that it(and past history) made it seem that he was bad the entire game.
Ereck Flowers definitely got better...  
M.S. : 8/18/2018 9:36 am : link

...after his initial fuck up** that almost got Webb killed.

After that, he got some help from the TE and RB, but he also managed to stay in front of his guy one-on-one.

** Patrick Omameh also fucked up on the same play. BTW, Flowers got too low, ducked his head a little and stopped moving his feat which allowed Kennard to swoop around him EASILY!!!
Erik Flowers  
JerrysKids : 8/18/2018 9:49 am : link
doesn't belong in the NFL.
Erik Flowers  
JerrysKids : 8/18/2018 9:53 am : link
doesn't belong in the NFL.
Bunche and Becton  
Hilary : 8/18/2018 10:00 am : link
Carl Banks knows football. I would like to see Bunche and Becton get some reps at right tackle.Flowers does not have a great track record and Wheeler has not looked good.
Can someone report how Webb moved in the pocket  
stoneman : 8/18/2018 10:02 am : link
For those of us that did not get the game, was Webb moving/drifting well in the pocket. Were his throws just 5-7 sec drops and fire. No drifting or extending plays.

I did see some of the game last week and I was thoroughly disappointed in his mobility (forget the results), but I am chalking that one up to first game melt down. He did not move well last week. Drifted into one sack, standing target on some pressures.
Jerryskid  
XBRONX : 8/18/2018 10:06 am : link
You must have missed yesterdays game.
Yeah, I'm with dep.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/18/2018 10:06 am : link
I just watched game on NFL Network & the OL wasn't as bad as some made it out to be.

The problem with Flowers  
BigBlueShock : 8/18/2018 10:18 am : link
is his consistency though. He’s done the same thing since he’s been here. There have been numerous games where he’s really not near as bad as people suggested he was, overall, but the problem is he always has these breakdown plays that he is completely uncompetitive. It may only be one or two of them on a given week, but those plays that it happens is usually incredibly costly to the team.

And then he’ll have a game where there are many more of those moments than just one or two. It’s a recurring theme. Every time he almost reels me in to think he can be a serviceable player, he has a moment. Or ten.
RE: Bunche and Becton  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/18/2018 10:53 am : link
In comment 14042547 Hilary said:
Quote:
Carl Banks knows football. I would like to see Bunche and Becton get some reps at right tackle.Flowers does not have a great track record and Wheeler has not looked good.

Sign me up for whoever has the Carl Banks Seal of Approval, the best analyst on TV.
RE: Can someone report how Webb moved in the pocket  
PatersonPlank : 8/18/2018 10:57 am : link
In comment 14042549 stoneman said:
Quote:
For those of us that did not get the game, was Webb moving/drifting well in the pocket. Were his throws just 5-7 sec drops and fire. No drifting or extending plays.

I did see some of the game last week and I was thoroughly disappointed in his mobility (forget the results), but I am chalking that one up to first game melt down. He did not move well last week. Drifted into one sack, standing target on some pressures.


I thought he looked pretty mobile and did a good job of buying time. The game was replayed on the NFL Network this morning ,and will be on a few times more. You should check the schedule
RE: RE: Can someone report how Webb moved in the pocket  
stoneman : 8/18/2018 11:22 am : link
In comment 14042591 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 14042549 stoneman said:


Quote:


For those of us that did not get the game, was Webb moving/drifting well in the pocket. Were his throws just 5-7 sec drops and fire. No drifting or extending plays.

I did see some of the game last week and I was thoroughly disappointed in his mobility (forget the results), but I am chalking that one up to first game melt down. He did not move well last week. Drifted into one sack, standing target on some pressures.



I thought he looked pretty mobile and did a good job of buying time. The game was replayed on the NFL Network this morning ,and will be on a few times more. You should check the schedule



Thanks. I will try to catch one of the replays.
I think Webb  
NikkiMac : 8/18/2018 11:28 am : link
Proved to himself that he can play in this league this game

I think he’s going to make it .......
Giants Management Has Just Got To...  
M.S. : 8/18/2018 12:17 pm : link

...break Ereck Flowers out of the habit of leaning too far forward and just leaning on the defender WITHOUT moving his feet.

It's as though Flowers feels he can just maul the guy by leaning on him.

He's a street free agent if he doesn't break this habit.
I'd seriously give Wheeler a shot with the 1st team  
PatersonPlank : 8/18/2018 12:23 pm : link
to see how he does
Webb looked mostly good  
mrvax : 8/18/2018 12:49 pm : link
especially that outstanding throw to Russel Shepard. However, on the play where Webb had the ball slapped out of his hand, I couldn't believe he never saw the defender coming right at him.
...  
christian : 8/18/2018 1:38 pm : link
I've rambled on about this enough, but I fully expect John Jerry to be in the starting 5 within a few games.
RE: Can someone report how Webb moved in the pocket  
Ivan15 : 8/18/2018 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14042549 stoneman said:
Quote:
For those of us that did not get the game, was Webb moving/drifting well in the pocket. Were his throws just 5-7 sec drops and fire. No drifting or extending plays.

I did see some of the game last week and I was thoroughly disappointed in his mobility (forget the results), but I am chalking that one up to first game melt down. He did not move well last week. Drifted into one sack, standing target on some pressures.


Did you mean 5-7 step drops? If you mean 5-7 sec drops, even I could complete a pass if I had that much time.
i agree  
BleedBlue : 8/18/2018 2:47 pm : link
he had one bad play and people want to kill him for entire game. is he great? no but he wasnt awful all game
RE: ...  
Jay on the Island : 8/18/2018 2:55 pm : link
In comment 14042720 christian said:
Quote:
I've rambled on about this enough, but I fully expect John Jerry to be in the starting 5 within a few games.

I think Greco would get the call before Jerry.
RE: ...  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 8/18/2018 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14042720 christian said:
Quote:
I've rambled on about this enough, but I fully expect John Jerry to be in the starting 5 within a few games.


God no...
RE: RE: Can someone report how Webb moved in the pocket  
stoneman : 8/18/2018 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14042751 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14042549 stoneman said:


Quote:


For those of us that did not get the game, was Webb moving/drifting well in the pocket. Were his throws just 5-7 sec drops and fire. No drifting or extending plays.

I did see some of the game last week and I was thoroughly disappointed in his mobility (forget the results), but I am chalking that one up to first game melt down. He did not move well last week. Drifted into one sack, standing target on some pressures.



Did you mean 5-7 step drops? If you mean 5-7 sec drops, even I could complete a pass if I had that much time.


my bad - 5 or 7 step drops
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 8/18/2018 5:33 pm : link
In comment 14042767 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14042720 christian said:


Quote:


I've rambled on about this enough, but I fully expect John Jerry to be in the starting 5 within a few games.


I think Greco would get the call before Jerry.


I don't see anything on the field superior to Jerry by Greco or Omameh.

This isn't an endorsement of Jerry, who I think is an extraordinary average player. I think the alternatives are both below average.

Especially Omameh who looks every bit the journeyman he's been.
The thing about Flowers  
Cenotaph : 8/18/2018 7:26 pm : link
is that we've seen flashes of good play, even solid stretches before...but his consistency isn't where it needs to be for an OT, especially LT. And when he has a lapse or doesn't get set right in pass pro, it tends to be a spectacular failure of a play. Maybe he even gets a bit too much of a bad rap, because when he makes a mistake, the whole play tends to get blown up (and usually it's obvious where the issue was).

I was hopeful that Flowers might be able to turn it around last year, especially with the Ellison add to maybe help him out. I don't think they gave him enough help like that last year. But here's hoping a new coaching staff, combined with a move to RT, helps him be more successful, or they find better ways to scheme around him or help him. He could develop into a solid run blocker, if he can just hold up in pass pro at RT.
---  
Peppers : 8/18/2018 7:29 pm : link
Let Flowers settle in to RT first. Relax and give the man a chance.
RE: ...  
BigBlueShock : 8/18/2018 7:39 pm : link
In comment 14042720 christian said:
Quote:
I've rambled on about this enough, but I fully expect John Jerry to be in the starting 5 within a few games.

You do seem to have a lot invested in this John Jerry to the starting lineup thing. It’s rather strange, really
Flowers screws up  
Mike from SI : 8/18/2018 7:46 pm : link
way more frequently than most league average tackles. Until that changes, we're in trouble.
The OL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/18/2018 10:18 pm : link
looked decent in pass pro. The looked really bad on run blocking though. Defenders were in the backfield on way too many runs
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 8/18/2018 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14042935 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14042720 christian said:


Quote:


I've rambled on about this enough, but I fully expect John Jerry to be in the starting 5 within a few games.


You do seem to have a lot invested in this John Jerry to the starting lineup thing. It’s rather strange, really


Don't get me wrong, I think Jerry is an average-to-bad player. I just think Omameh is certifiably bad.

Everything I read about Omameh was troubling, everything I've seen supports it. He looks absolutely overmatched, and with more reps I think the fringe player he is will show.
I don't think it's wise to play Jerry next to Flowers.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/19/2018 12:22 am : link
You can afford one of them to be out there, not both.
Was just re-watching the Davis Webb TD pass to Gallman...  
M.S. : 8/19/2018 9:52 am : link

...and took a hard look at Ereck Flowers pass protection.

I really think it just comes down to the fact that he's a classic waist-bender and cannot physically bend his knees and effectively engage the pass rusher.

Flowers kept with his man, but he really looked like he was bent too far over as he leaned against the pass rusher.

I just think Flowers is very limited athletically and can't physcially do certain things. He may be a little too tall for his own good.

But he's trying...
^^^^  
Tuckrule : 8/19/2018 10:16 am : link
That’s exactly what Mac said about flowers after he was fired. The guy simply cannnot bend
Flowers is our RT This Year - Like It Or Not  
Rong5611 : 8/19/2018 10:26 am : link
Unfortunately, he's still the best RT on the team. Like it or not, he's starting this year. We have limited cap space to go out and get a guy who's better (same situation at CB too).

He will be gone next year and replaced with a high draft pick and/or a solid free agent acquisition.
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