but Stewart adds no value to the team. He looks like he doesn't want to be here. Gallman has won the 2nd back role with his play, the other two young guys have looked good and provide depth. Stewart's only contribution to the team is vetern locker room presence.
sure he provides veteran leadership but Barkley isn't someone who really needs a veteran mentor. I am hoping that he could at least be a good goal line and short yardage back but I really hope he doesn't get carries over Gallman who is clearly the superior player.
to sound like too much of a homer, but Theo Riddick gives everyone problems in coverage.
isnt this the same thing we hope barkley does for the giants? lol it is like people do not watch football outside of the giants
Kuechly gets beat on wheel routes for big yards.
Hard to cover 1 on 1 any fast good receiving TE/RB from the middle of the field. Hopefully we can get Collins more active in intimidating the mid level throws.
is that last week he got badly beat on a similar jab step move by Njoku, who is hardly a Theo Riddick in his nimbleness and quickness.
I think it's a legit concern when two failures in two weeks lead to big gainers, Njoku's going for a TD. Banks implicitly is concerned also, because w/o mentioning Njoku's play last week said that Ogletree has to improve his technique vs such patterns when he's called on to play cover, which he will be often.
The problem with Banks' comment is that my eyes tell me that Ogletree may not be physically/athletically suited to maintain cover/contact with the receiver, improved technique or not, because he's not quick or twitchy enough.
is that last week he got badly beat on a similar jab step move by Njoku, who is hardly a Theo Riddick in his nimbleness and quickness.
I think it's a legit concern when two failures in two weeks lead to big gainers, Njoku's going for a TD. Banks implicitly is concerned also, because w/o mentioning Njoku's play last week said that Ogletree has to improve his technique vs such patterns when he's called on to play cover, which he will be often.
The problem with Banks' comment is that my eyes tell me that Ogletree may not be physically/athletically suited to maintain cover/contact with the receiver, improved technique or not, because he's not quick or twitchy enough.
do you know if safety was supposed to have coverage over the top on njoku play?
is a bigger concern because we’re counting on him to be a big part of the defense. It was only a few preseason plays, but we’re going to need him to not get burned in coverage like he has so far.
Stewart looks awful and it’s a likely waste of cap room (I thought Carolina was silly in giving him carries from McCaffrey last year) but not really a big deal because Barkley is going to get most carried and Gallman looks like a capable backup. We’re all set at RB.
is a bigger concern because we’re counting on him to be a big part of the defense. It was only a few preseason plays, but we’re going to need him to not get burned in coverage like he has so
he got burnt on a play 99npercent of linebackers would have gotte burnt on
I'm inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that he was and that he was late getting to the corner of the endzone as Njoku strolled in; even granting that and if the S had a better read, Njoku had at least a 20-25 yard gain (if I'm remembering field position correctly) before the S could have been in position.
covering RBs and TEs. It appears that it's not Ogletrees strong-suit and its certainly not Goodsons either. The only other LBer that could possibly cover is Ray Ray Armstrong?!
I'm inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that he was and that he was late getting to the corner of the endzone as Njoku strolled in; even granting that and if the S had a better read, Njoku had at least a 20-25 yard gain (if I'm remembering field position correctly) before the S could have been in position.
if the safety played it correctly he would of been doubled and taylor would of never thrown it...
if he was in man to man by himself i hope they never have that defensive play called again because it was terrible set up...
<if the safety played it correctly he would of been doubled and taylor would of never thrown it...>
The S would have had to be virtually 7 in the box to have made a difference on the reception, no way a S playing a cover 2 or other would have been close enough to compensate for Ogletree being beat for almost immediate 8-yard separation
<if the safety played it correctly he would of been doubled and taylor would of never thrown it...>
The S would have had to be virtually 7 in the box to have made a difference on the reception, no way a S playing a cover 2 or other would have been close enough to compensate for Ogletree being beat for almost immediate 8-yard separation
how do you even know ogletree was in man?
is it possible they had single high and ogletree and zone in the intermediate middle?
he was so close to the line of scrimmage if he was in man it was a moronic defense
Im not worried at this point about Ogletree but lets not pretend it was just this one play
The thing is, we know that QBs complete 70% of their passes in the preseason, so you have to expect that they're getting completed against somebody, don't you?
RE: Ogletree got torched last week by Ojoku of Clev Â
Im not worried at this point about Ogletree but lets not pretend it was just this one play
The thing is, we know that QBs complete 70% of their passes in the preseason, so you have to expect that they're getting completed against somebody, don't you?
LOL - I guess they complete 70%, but they are expected to complete 0% against us (or the player gets cut).
RE: RE: Ogletree got torched last week by Ojoku of Clev Â
I have no idea whether he is right or what kind of player AO will be.
But those of you claiming, the Ops judgment is based on preseason are responding to an argument of your own making. He clearly stated that the preseason plays simply reflect what the advance stats already show
RE: RE: RE: RE: Ogletree got torched last week by Ojoku of Clev Â
Im not worried at this point about Ogletree but lets not pretend it was just this one play
so 2 plays, 1 play 1 maybe 2 linebackers are able to cover and another the safety was supposed to be over the top but was late getting over..
If you watch Rams games it’s not just two plays. He’s not good in coverage.
he had the second most passes defended behind keuchly...
every linebacker gets torched now by tight ends and running backs, it is why many safeties are converting to linebackers...
Stats don’t tell the whole story. The Rams had to limit what he was asked to do and primarily blitzed him. I mean, McLain had 115 tackles his last year here, was he good?
Despite all those pass breakups he was rated 68 out of 77 linebackers in coverage. Just because he had a ton of tackles and a lot of pass break ups, doesn’t mean he’s good.
If Bettcher is counting on Ogletree in nickel and dime packages... Â
... any struggles in coverage are naturally concerning. If he has to come off the field in obvious passing situations, then he’s overpaid and the team will need somebody to step up as a replacement for Keenan Robinson.
That said, Riddick and Njoku are tough assignments, and the Giants are learning a new defense. Way too early to hit the panic button on Ogletree. Maybe in October, but not August.
We’re there better ways to spend Stewart’s bonus? Probably. Would that money have bought a quality slot corner or swing tackle? Not likely. And I’m not sure Stewart is completely cooked. Ottis Anderson was an afterthought for a couple of years before the Giants needed him.
I don't know how anyone can say they aren't concerned about the coverage so far of Ogletree. Love his leadership and what he brings to the defense in that aspect but his man coverage vs Riddick and Njoku in back to back weeks is very concerning. He's been playing the money backer we've heard about in Betchers defense.. And with that he's going to be asked to cover RBs out of the backfield and run with the TE. So far he's shown us he's not capable of doing that.
BUT It's only the preseason, better to be exposed now than when it counts and there's plenty of time for the coaches to make the adjustments.
It's just what it is. You're asking a linebacker to cover a WR type route. It's a mismatch unless you have a special player with the right kind of quickness. Not foot speed, quickness. Ability to change direction on the same level as a receiver.
Here's Ruben Foster being asked to do the same thing. Except he doesn't bite on a fake, isn't out of position, and can move step for step with an elite athlete.
Ottis Anderson was an afterthought for a couple of years before the Giants needed him.
You gotta be fair to Ottis Anderson though. He was a MUCH better player than Stewart. It would make more sense that Ottis had something left in the tank at 32 after a couple of seasons of barely playing.
and the two man Mara ball licking army is out in force attacking anyone who questions why the new GM gave 13 million dollars to two players that look horrible so far. The same GM who goes solely by the eye ball test. Don't let the BBI state media bother you. They'll both run and hide if the team gets off to a bad start like they did last year.
I think Ogletree will be fine and an important part of what looks to be a good front 7. He's a good locker room guy as well.
As far as Stewart, he doesn't look like a $3.4 million guaranteed money player currently. He will make the team though. They take a huge cap hit if they cut him this year (much less next year as I read it). I don't think his presence hurts the team at this point. His intangibles are good - good locker room guy, mentor for Barkley.
I think Ogletree will be fine and an important part of what looks to be a good front 7. He's a good locker room guy as well.
As far as Stewart, he doesn't look like a $3.4 million guaranteed money player currently. He will make the team though. They take a huge cap hit if they cut him this year (much less next year as I read it). I don't think his presence hurts the team at this point. His intangibles are good - good locker room guy, mentor for Barkley.
He can play and will find a role, I hope. Stewart Contract - ( New Window )
It hurts them because that’s money that could have been spent elsewhere and he’s possibly the 4th best back on the roster. They probably shouldn’t carry four backs, so it costs them a player somewhere.
Also he hasn’t been good in a number of years but Gettleman gave him $3 million.
Is in the slot during the season and we used a MLB to cover him shame on us. My assumption is that we'd slide a nickel CB or S over him or the LB would jam him at the line and we'd zone behind him.
Some are ACTUALLY questioning him AT THIS POINT. Can you believe it? Oh wait, yes I can
Quote:
should be cut because of a preseason game!
Some are ACTUALLY questioning him AT THIS POINT. Can you believe it? Oh wait, yes I can
Who needs him when we have Ray-Ray Armstrong and Mark Herzlich?!?
isnt this the same thing we hope barkley does for the giants? lol it is like people do not watch football outside of the giants
Quote:
to sound like too much of a homer, but Theo Riddick gives everyone problems in coverage.
isnt this the same thing we hope barkley does for the giants? lol it is like people do not watch football outside of the giants
Kuechly gets beat on wheel routes for big yards.
Hard to cover 1 on 1 any fast good receiving TE/RB from the middle of the field. Hopefully we can get Collins more active in intimidating the mid level throws.
I think it's a legit concern when two failures in two weeks lead to big gainers, Njoku's going for a TD. Banks implicitly is concerned also, because w/o mentioning Njoku's play last week said that Ogletree has to improve his technique vs such patterns when he's called on to play cover, which he will be often.
The problem with Banks' comment is that my eyes tell me that Ogletree may not be physically/athletically suited to maintain cover/contact with the receiver, improved technique or not, because he's not quick or twitchy enough.
I like the RB Martin from Rutgers I think the kid is the real deal
I think it's a legit concern when two failures in two weeks lead to big gainers, Njoku's going for a TD. Banks implicitly is concerned also, because w/o mentioning Njoku's play last week said that Ogletree has to improve his technique vs such patterns when he's called on to play cover, which he will be often.
The problem with Banks' comment is that my eyes tell me that Ogletree may not be physically/athletically suited to maintain cover/contact with the receiver, improved technique or not, because he's not quick or twitchy enough.
do you know if safety was supposed to have coverage over the top on njoku play?
Stewart looks awful and it’s a likely waste of cap room (I thought Carolina was silly in giving him carries from McCaffrey last year) but not really a big deal because Barkley is going to get most carried and Gallman looks like a capable backup. We’re all set at RB.
he got burnt on a play 99npercent of linebackers would have gotte burnt on
if the safety played it correctly he would of been doubled and taylor would of never thrown it...
if he was in man to man by himself i hope they never have that defensive play called again because it was terrible set up...
I will say the early returns don’t look good... but... preseason
The S would have had to be virtually 7 in the box to have made a difference on the reception, no way a S playing a cover 2 or other would have been close enough to compensate for Ogletree being beat for almost immediate 8-yard separation
The S would have had to be virtually 7 in the box to have made a difference on the reception, no way a S playing a cover 2 or other would have been close enough to compensate for Ogletree being beat for almost immediate 8-yard separation
how do you even know ogletree was in man?
is it possible they had single high and ogletree and zone in the intermediate middle?
he was so close to the line of scrimmage if he was in man it was a moronic defense
Im not worried at this point about Ogletree but lets not pretend it was just this one play
right to njoku...
lined up to close to the line, safety was over the top but late coming over...
ogletree was 2 yards behind so if thompson gets over no completion...
Im not worried at this point about Ogletree but lets not pretend it was just this one play
so 2 plays, 1 play 1 maybe 2 linebackers are able to cover and another the safety was supposed to be over the top but was late getting over..
Im not worried at this point about Ogletree but lets not pretend it was just this one play
The thing is, we know that QBs complete 70% of their passes in the preseason, so you have to expect that they're getting completed against somebody, don't you?
Im not worried at this point about Ogletree but lets not pretend it was just this one play
Good point, it was two plays. However, I think when they actually game plan Olgetree will not cover fast players one on one.
Quote:
Last week as well for a long TD.
Im not worried at this point about Ogletree but lets not pretend it was just this one play
The thing is, we know that QBs complete 70% of their passes in the preseason, so you have to expect that they're getting completed against somebody, don't you?
LOL - I guess they complete 70%, but they are expected to complete 0% against us (or the player gets cut).
Quote:
Last week as well for a long TD.
Im not worried at this point about Ogletree but lets not pretend it was just this one play
so 2 plays, 1 play 1 maybe 2 linebackers are able to cover and another the safety was supposed to be over the top but was late getting over..
If you watch Rams games it’s not just two plays. He’s not good in coverage.
Quote:
In comment 14042641 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Last week as well for a long TD.
Im not worried at this point about Ogletree but lets not pretend it was just this one play
so 2 plays, 1 play 1 maybe 2 linebackers are able to cover and another the safety was supposed to be over the top but was late getting over..
If you watch Rams games it’s not just two plays. He’s not good in coverage.
he had the second most passes defended behind keuchly...
every linebacker gets torched now by tight ends and running backs, it is why many safeties are converting to linebackers...
But those of you claiming, the Ops judgment is based on preseason are responding to an argument of your own making. He clearly stated that the preseason plays simply reflect what the advance stats already show
Quote:
In comment 14042646 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14042641 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Last week as well for a long TD.
Im not worried at this point about Ogletree but lets not pretend it was just this one play
so 2 plays, 1 play 1 maybe 2 linebackers are able to cover and another the safety was supposed to be over the top but was late getting over..
If you watch Rams games it’s not just two plays. He’s not good in coverage.
he had the second most passes defended behind keuchly...
every linebacker gets torched now by tight ends and running backs, it is why many safeties are converting to linebackers...
Stats don’t tell the whole story. The Rams had to limit what he was asked to do and primarily blitzed him. I mean, McLain had 115 tackles his last year here, was he good?
Despite all those pass breakups he was rated 68 out of 77 linebackers in coverage. Just because he had a ton of tackles and a lot of pass break ups, doesn’t mean he’s good.
That said, Riddick and Njoku are tough assignments, and the Giants are learning a new defense. Way too early to hit the panic button on Ogletree. Maybe in October, but not August.
We’re there better ways to spend Stewart’s bonus? Probably. Would that money have bought a quality slot corner or swing tackle? Not likely. And I’m not sure Stewart is completely cooked. Ottis Anderson was an afterthought for a couple of years before the Giants needed him.
So many fucking morons in preseason.
Yup, season over
So many fucking morons in preseason.
Just preseason?
BUT It's only the preseason, better to be exposed now than when it counts and there's plenty of time for the coaches to make the adjustments.
Here's Ruben Foster being asked to do the same thing. Except he doesn't bite on a fake, isn't out of position, and can move step for step with an elite athlete.
https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/1030497230820659200
https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1030851777418194944
Same matchup on a Mike LB. Same result. Ogletree's an athlete, but he's not on the same level as a cornerback or a safety.
You gotta be fair to Ottis Anderson though. He was a MUCH better player than Stewart. It would make more sense that Ottis had something left in the tank at 32 after a couple of seasons of barely playing.
As far as Stewart, he doesn't look like a $3.4 million guaranteed money player currently. He will make the team though. They take a huge cap hit if they cut him this year (much less next year as I read it). I don't think his presence hurts the team at this point. His intangibles are good - good locker room guy, mentor for Barkley.
He can play and will find a role, I hope.
Stewart Contract - ( New Window )
As far as Stewart, he doesn't look like a $3.4 million guaranteed money player currently. He will make the team though. They take a huge cap hit if they cut him this year (much less next year as I read it). I don't think his presence hurts the team at this point. His intangibles are good - good locker room guy, mentor for Barkley.
He can play and will find a role, I hope. Stewart Contract - ( New Window )
It hurts them because that’s money that could have been spent elsewhere and he’s possibly the 4th best back on the roster. They probably shouldn’t carry four backs, so it costs them a player somewhere.
Also he hasn’t been good in a number of years but Gettleman gave him $3 million.