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Possible Reason for Stewart Signing

Samiam : 8/18/2018 2:44 pm
Yesterdays Wall Street Journal had an article about Jon Gruden and the Raiders. (I don't know how to link the article - it's on page A12). In the article, they talk about Gruden's signing of Derrick Johnson (age 35), Jordy Nelson (33) and Frosty Rucker (35). All 3 of these guys do a lot of coaching and mentoring of the younger player at their positions which becomes more important given the CBA limitations on practices. They even say that coaches lament how little coaching they actually get to do (which in my mind may explain Erich Flowers). Also, it's not mentioned for everybody but it is mentioned that Nelson signed for a fraction of of what he was worth a year before.

The article speaks to Gruden's either has been left behind by the evolution of the game since he last coached in Tampa. Or, his fixation with old timers may demonstrate a keen understanding of the modern NFL.

Maybe Gettleman had this in mind when he signed Stewart. I'm not sure about the salary; with what Stewart has done in the 2 preseason games, he certainly doesn't look like a bargain but veteran players often treat the preseason games as getting ready for the season as opposed to what fans do. Maybe Stewart's primary job, besides being a goal line back, is to be a mentor to Barkley and Gallman and whatever rookie, if any, make the team.
What is the job  
XBRONX : 8/18/2018 2:45 pm : link
of the RB coach?
I think Stewart restructured his deal with the Panthers  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2018 2:48 pm : link
a few times while Gettleman was there, helping DG/Team a lot over the years.

This silly contract was DG saying thank you for that and you're one of my guys...
I don't understand the reasoning for a veteran mentor  
Jay on the Island : 8/18/2018 2:50 pm : link
for a RB who is known as hard working, humble, and mature beyond his years.

Gruden has always brought in older veterans to both the Raiders and Bucs. This worked well for him in the past but he has been out of the game for a while and it may no longer work in his favor. Only time will tell.
A veteran mentor?  
Doomster : 8/18/2018 2:53 pm : link
But you should be able to get a mentor, for a lot less than what we paid Stewart....
Also  
njm : 8/18/2018 2:54 pm : link
He didn't know what he had in Simmons and Martin.
RE: What is the job  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/18/2018 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14042754 XBRONX said:
Quote:
of the RB coach?

It's like you went out of your way to ignore the point that the OP was trying to make (whether or not you agree) - with the limitations on formal practice time in the current CBA, there's only so much that the RB coach can do with the players. The CBA does not preclude a veteran teammate from working out with younger players separate from actual team practices (as we saw with Solder working with Flowers after practices).

I'm not saying that's what DG expected/intended Stewart's role to be, but your post either flat out ignores the idea of the OP's article or you don't realize how restrictive the CBA is with regard to practice time.
Thanks Gadorade Dunk  
Samiam : 8/18/2018 3:30 pm : link
Had the same thought. One of the reasons I rarely post. People do not read
People will argue about anything on here.  
Motley Two : 8/18/2018 3:35 pm : link
I disagree and I'm gonna go with the new GM is obviously thanking people with Mara & Tisch's money for things that happened in Carolina!
Giants  
darren in pdx : 8/18/2018 3:39 pm : link
have been terrible at running in short yardage and goal-line situations for years. Last year Stewart was one of the best in such situations. There aren't too many dots to connect. People will go down with injuries eventually.
This isn't some secret.  
robbieballs2003 : 8/18/2018 3:47 pm : link
Some people make it seem like it was a guarantee we were getting Barkley. We had no idea if he would be available or not. There is nothing to overthink.

Gettleman's number one job besides hiring a HC was to change the culture of this team. He knows Stewart and what type of person he is. We had a need at RB. It just made too much sense. I get why Gettleman made the move. It wasn't to mentor Barkley as we had no idea if we would get Barkley. Maybe it was to mentor a guy like Gallman but that is a stretch. He was simply brought in to he a great locker room presence while giving us depth at a much needee position.

I, like a lot of fans, disagreed with this because of the money involved but it is what it is. I disagree but I also understand why and it is hard to fault Gettleman for what he was able to accomplish in one offseason. Looking at individual transactions is not a good way to judge someone's job. You have to look at everything in its entirety to understand. Therefore, I don't fault Gettleman one bit.
This is a BBI myth  
UberAlias : 8/18/2018 3:49 pm : link
The guy has been clearly above all other backs aside from Barkley on the depth chart. When I was at camp, he was clearly the #2 and saw a lot of reps with the starters. He was the #2 in PS week 1 and got the start last night.

It probably did ~factor~ into their thinking when they drafted him, but this notion that that was the reason is a BBI fabrication. This is not a case of the old man here to be another coach for the young guys and the prize draftee. He's been prominently featured in their offense from the start.
RE: What is the job  
blueblood : 8/18/2018 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14042754 XBRONX said:
Quote:
of the RB coach?


This is a simple answer but in actuality is not a well thought out answer.

While the Rb coach obviously is a coach and trains and run drills and schools the RB's, they are not ACTIVE players.

Jonathan Stewart has had more years with Mike Shula's run concepts than the RB coach. He understands the little details and the subtle nuances.

Those are the details that matter and can make the difference. There are things the other backs are going to get from a veteran player who knows the system.

Those players are going to ask certain questions of Stewart that a coach might not have the insight on because he isnt actually on the field playing..

Think about it.. dont you think that Odell Beckham might have more information about how a particular CB plays and what he is susceptible to than the DB coach?

You hear about players learning from players ALL time.. the small details.. the subtle nuances..

This is where veterans come in.. Its not all the ooaches.. they learn from one another as well.
So I guess  
XBRONX : 8/18/2018 4:18 pm : link
if they didnt sign him, Barkley would be up shits creek.
Gallman is in his 2nd year, Barkley’s a rookie.  
Big Blue '56 : 8/18/2018 4:20 pm : link
Bringing in JS helps inject experience and a winning attitude to the O side of the ball. He’s been to a Super Bowl. On the field, it’s quite clear why he’s here and only fans worry about the cost of signing him, as if the Giants, if necessary, couldn’t find the money and creativity to sign whomever they might care to..
UberAlias  
arniefez : 8/18/2018 4:21 pm : link
Let's hope it was to change the culture and mentor the rookie. Because the Giants have a GM that doesn't believe in analytics or positional value. He goes by his eye ball test. If Stewart was signed to be a feature player the GM needs new glasses quickly.
RE: UberAlias  
Big Blue '56 : 8/18/2018 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14042832 arniefez said:
Quote:
Let's hope it was to change the culture and mentor the rookie. Because the Giants have a GM that doesn't believe in analytics or positional value. He goes by his eye ball test. If Stewart was signed to be a feature player the GM needs new glasses quickly.


In NO UNIVERSE would DG have signed JS to be a featured player. Zero chance.
Let’s see if he  
Giant John : 8/18/2018 4:27 pm : link
Makes the team.
RE: So I guess  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/18/2018 4:28 pm : link
In comment 14042826 XBRONX said:
Quote:
if they didnt sign him, Barkley would be up shits creek.

Absolutely, because everything in life is completely binary.
Nobody brought up the most likely possibility  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 8/18/2018 4:59 pm : link
Stewart has naked pictures of Gettleman.
BB 56  
arniefez : 8/18/2018 5:14 pm : link
Except he did. He gave him 6 million with 3 million guaranteed. That's a featured game-day role contract. Not a mentor locker room presence contract. Short yardage, 3rd down, 1st & 2nd down a few times a game. #2 RB that seems to be the role that contract merits. Maybe when the games count he'll handle that role. So far no sign of that.
...  
christian : 8/18/2018 5:26 pm : link
Stewart is not a tragedy of a signing, it just appears his skills don't match his pay -- and cap space no matter how flexible, is still finite.

I also don't sense Gallman or Barkley are bad actors and need any more adult supervision than the staff, or are bad situational football players and can't handle 3rd down or short yardage.

I feel Stewart is the 5th most valuable running back on the team and is the 17th highest paid running back in the NFL.
RE: Gallman is in his 2nd year, Barkley’s a rookie.  
Hsilwek92 : 8/18/2018 5:31 pm : link
In comment 14042831 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Bringing in JS helps inject experience and a winning attitude to the O side of the ball. He’s been to a Super Bowl. On the field, it’s quite clear why he’s here and only fans worry about the cost of signing him, as if the Giants, if necessary, couldn’t find the money and creativity to sign whomever they might care to..


Literally one of the only smart posts I’ve read in this thread so far.
RE: ...  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2018 5:35 pm : link
In comment 14042877 christian said:
Quote:

I feel Stewart is the 5th most valuable running back on the team and is the 17th highest paid running back in the NFL.


Well put. Even if you say he is the 3rd most valuable RB on the roster this makes no sense.

So how do you all reconcile this...
1) DG has zero sense of value of the RB market (unlikely)
or
2) DG was particularly generous in this former player signing
Gettleman Overpaying?  
Samiam : 8/18/2018 5:58 pm : link
Gettleman may have overpaid for Stewart. We don’t know if he was bidding against other teams. Either way, we’ll have a better sense when the season starts. And, I think there’s a slim or no chance that he doesn’t make the team. That said, some have mentioned or implied that Gettleman was generous to Stewart because helped him out at Carolina by restructuring or taking less than market value. I think that even if the Giants were under the CAP by a boatload of money, he wouldn’t do that. I think that idea is crazy; that’s not how the NFL works in any way
RE: RE: Gallman is in his 2nd year, Barkley’s a rookie.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/18/2018 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14042879 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
In comment 14042831 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


Bringing in JS helps inject experience and a winning attitude to the O side of the ball. He’s been to a Super Bowl. On the field, it’s quite clear why he’s here and only fans worry about the cost of signing him, as if the Giants, if necessary, couldn’t find the money and creativity to sign whomever they might care to..



Literally one of the only smart posts I’ve read in this thread so far.


"super bowl experience" when we have a guy at QB who's actually won two as opposed to just appearing?
And that doesn't even account for Solder.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/18/2018 6:12 pm : link
.
I mentioned something similar on another thread  
Cenotaph : 8/18/2018 7:18 pm : link
that it's hard to understand why they brought in Stewart, especially at the price of the contract he got, based on his play last year and even before. Older RBs lose value fast in the NFL, and there's little chance his play would ever justify the $. That said, teams can often fine vet leadership type guys for close to minimum deals anyway, so it's still hard to understand/justify the Stewart signing, other than maybe DG helping out one of his guys from CAR.

I really hope he proves us wrong, and I'd consider even a limited role he's effective in to be success (say short yardage or something), but regardless he going to be 'overpaid' this year. Just hope he doesn't cost us a talented younger back getting cut to keep him.
RE: RE: RE: Gallman is in his 2nd year, Barkley’s a rookie.  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2018 7:53 pm : link
In comment 14042897 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14042879 Hsilwek92 said:


Quote:


In comment 14042831 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


Bringing in JS helps inject experience and a winning attitude to the O side of the ball. He’s been to a Super Bowl. On the field, it’s quite clear why he’s here and only fans worry about the cost of signing him, as if the Giants, if necessary, couldn’t find the money and creativity to sign whomever they might care to..



Literally one of the only smart posts I’ve read in this thread so far.



"super bowl experience" when we have a guy at QB who's actually won two as opposed to just appearing?


Eli is likely not the lockerroom presence type that changes or straightens out poor behavior of individuals on a team. Not a criticism just a educated guess...
RE: Gettleman Overpaying?  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2018 7:56 pm : link
In comment 14042894 Samiam said:
Quote:
Gettleman may have overpaid for Stewart. We don’t know if he was bidding against other teams. Either way, we’ll have a better sense when the season starts. And, I think there’s a slim or no chance that he doesn’t make the team. That said, some have mentioned or implied that Gettleman was generous to Stewart because helped him out at Carolina by restructuring or taking less than market value. I think that even if the Giants were under the CAP by a boatload of money, he wouldn’t do that. I think that idea is crazy; that’s not how the NFL works in any way


Than how do you reconcile what happened? A bidding war for a 31 year old RB who has declined in production in every one of his last 4 years...seems odd.
RE: I mentioned something similar on another thread  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2018 8:03 pm : link
In comment 14042919 Cenotaph said:
Quote:
that it's hard to understand why they brought in Stewart, especially at the price of the contract he got, based on his play last year and even before. Older RBs lose value fast in the NFL, and there's little chance his play would ever justify the $. That said, teams can often fine vet leadership type guys for close to minimum deals anyway, so it's still hard to understand/justify the Stewart signing, other than maybe DG helping out one of his guys from CAR.



The same point several of us have made. Something went down with that silly deal...

Maybe a Mistake Maybe Not  
Samiam : 8/18/2018 8:32 pm : link
I’m assuming that a veteran with lots of miles behind me is looking at the preseason differently than a rookie or UFDA. I’m sure Stewart thinks he’s going to make the team so we’ll know for sure if the signing was a mistake or if he was overpaid during the regular season. But, based 2 preseason games, it’s a mistake to draw conclusions the way most are convinced in my opinion. Still, it is inconceivable to me that Gettleman would overpay with insufficient Giants Cap money to pay for anything that happened at Carolina. It doesn’t work that way. A better explanation for me is that we had no goal line back for years and Stewart does that well plus, as the article indicates, he may be a great locker room presence for young players especially RBs
Okay, so let me get this straight....  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2018 9:46 pm : link
Stewart is such an upstanding veteran professional that DG wants so badly that he pays him above-market pricing. To that end, his role is to be not only a productive player but also an example to follow since he is an experienced vet, good lockerroom presence, an all-effort guy for the younger players.

Yet he decides, in your view, to take the preseason in stride and not give an honest effort because he is a sure fire lock to make the team? What a great example to follow for our younger RBs and roster players...we need more of these guys.

My opinion of Jonathan Stewart is not based on the last two preseason games. It is based on his declining performance and age over the past several seasons.

The preseason has only solidified it...

RE: I don't understand the reasoning for a veteran mentor  
Ivan15 : 8/18/2018 10:24 pm : link
In comment 14042759 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
for a RB who is known as hard working, humble, and mature beyond his years.

Gruden has always brought in older veterans to both the Raiders and Bucs. This worked well for him in the past but he has been out of the game for a while and it may no longer work in his favor. Only time will tell.


At the time Stewart was signed, the Giants didn’t know who they would draft.

Besides, mentoring is overrated.
I had one issue with the stewat signing  
pjcas18 : 8/18/2018 10:33 pm : link
he's a solid all around back in decline, but with good leadership skills and supposedly solid character.

My issue was the $$$. I just think his role probably could have been filled for less, freeing up cash for a DB or WR.

and it's a good thread with a well thought out and communicated premise, some of the responses on here should embarrass people, but for some of the usual suspects it's par for the course.

I would think the ONLY purpose of having Stewart is  
Jimmy Googs : 8/18/2018 10:36 pm : link
when we get to the goal line, we bring him in and run play action.

Since the defense knows the only thing he might still be "serviceable at" is finding a 1-2 yard crease, they will bite, and Eli will have to take advantage.

What a weapon...

Maybe it was just a bad signing  
Vanzetti : 8/19/2018 2:06 am : link
Everybody is looking for some deep reason behind DG's move. Most likely, he just over-valued the guy. Thought he had more left in the tank than he does.

But let's see how it plays out this season before we totally judge Stewart
Stewart was not paid the kind of money he was  
Mike from Ohio : 8/19/2018 9:31 am : link
to mentor Barkley because Barkley was not on the team when he was signed. I don't doubt they planned to draft a RB in rounds 1-3, but you don't pay the money they did just for a coach/locker room guy. There is a certain amount of production expected from him for that money.

To think he was signed for that money as a "thank you" for his time in Carolina is just asinine. If you think NFL teams hand out huge paydays as a thank you for something archived with another team, I don't know what to say. The NFL is really not a charity.
Stewart looks fat.  
Knee of Theismann : 8/19/2018 9:25 pm : link
And slow.

I knew it was a bad signing the second it was announced. It doesn't take an expert GM to know that you just don't give a 31 year old over-the-hill RB $7M ($4M guaranteed).

This was the one move Gettleman made that I disagreed with and I think people are right to question it.

The only good thing is we can cut him at the end of this year and it's only $250k of dead cap. Still, risking any 2019 dead cap space on a fat, slow, old RB made no sense. It would be one thing if Stewart was still productive at age 30, but he wasn't. I still don't understand why we had to pay millions of dollars to bring his 680 yards (3.3 ypc) last year to our team. Just so he can tell Barkley to be patient in setting up blocks? I think Barkley already does pretty much everything better than Stewart ever did at any point in his career.
RE: Stewart was not paid the kind of money he was  
Jimmy Googs : 8/20/2018 12:06 am : link
In comment 14043149 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
to mentor Barkley because Barkley was not on the team when he was signed. I don't doubt they planned to draft a RB in rounds 1-3, but you don't pay the money they did just for a coach/locker room guy. There is a certain amount of production expected from him for that money.

To think he was signed for that money as a "thank you" for his time in Carolina is just asinine. If you think NFL teams hand out huge paydays as a thank you for something archived with another team, I don't know what to say. The NFL is really not a charity.


Ok...play GM. What level of production would you expect of him for the kind of money he received?

Remember...you said it was a huge payday not relevant for past years or to be a mentor. So what production should we expect for those millions?

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