Prevailing opinion in Jan 2016 was Tom Coughlin should go

not perfect by any means but good. He was just a terrible manager, and his intermediate hires were terrible. The GM rarely has eyes on anything projected to go past the mid second round, there's just not enough time.

Because of age discrimination. He’s better than at least half of the guys coaching today.

That's what should have happened.

Always grateful for the two SB runs but there were too many years where the team under performed given the talent. Way too many second half of the season collapses.

His last season was an enigma in itself in that I thought it was one of the better coaching performances of his career given the trash on the roster. But the amount of late game losses that year were somewhat of a microcosm of his tenure here.

Good coach but it was time to move on.

The problem from majority of the people I heard from around the league was in keeping everyone BUT Coughlin. They all agreed it was time for Coughlin to go but using him as the scapegoat left a little black eye.

had major input on player acquisition. It's silly to think a 2 time SB, borderline HOF, HC is not getting a say. It's been acknowledged by Mara that he had big time input.

This was his team just as much as it was Reese's. As Fatman said, they both should have gone together, but it was absolutely time for him to go. 2 SB's are fantastic. Missing the playoffs more often than not, and trending in the wrong direction, is a major blemish.

In comment 14065100 fkap said:

Quote:

had major input on player acquisition. It's silly to think a 2 time SB, borderline HOF, HC is not getting a say. It's been acknowledged by Mara that he had big time input. This was his team just as much as it was Reese's. As Fatman said, they both should have gone together, but it was absolutely time for him to go. 2 SB's are fantastic. Missing the playoffs more often than not, and trending in the wrong direction, is a major blemish.

To an extent, yes, but that 2014-2015 team wasn’t spending any money. They were saving up for a 2016 spending spree. They should have kept coughlin for one more year or cleaned house completely in 2013.

I’m glad we have shurmur now but what a wasteful embarrassing disaster 16-17 was. That 16 team could have won something.

She was very clear in saying we should have fired our GM and not our coach.

Before we give too much credit though, she also said something this summer to the effect that Davis Webb had the best camp of all our QB's. :-)

Enough with the sugarcoating

2013- Giants lose 6 straight games to open season

2014- Giants lose 7 straight games in midseason

2015- Giants lose 6 of 7 games to end season

If that wasnt enough- the blowout losses

2013- Giants lose 38-0, 31-7, 23-0, 37-14

2014- giants lose 27-0, 38-17, 35-14

2015- giants lose 27-7, 49-17

Alot of these games were over by halftime and alot to not even good teams

It was bad.

Reese should have joined Coughlin... TC had lost his edge as a HC. Reese long before lost his mojo as GM. McADoo was a rush job. Too bad he did not end up with the Eagles....

In his last season he put us in position to win quite a few times but we had a Pop Warner defense that couldn't hold on to a lead if handed to them on a platter.
The argument that he is responsible for personnel is retarded. You can't blame the coach for the players drafted and sign. Mostly because the HC doesn't sign or draft players.

But didnt do it overall with Reese etc..

Who knows if they had done as o, maybe outlook for this season wouldve been different with a more settled roster and contention

In comment 14065129 Thunderstruck27 said:

Quote:

In his last season he put us in position to win quite a few times but we had a Pop Warner defense that couldn't hold on to a lead if handed to them on a platter. The argument that he is responsible for personnel is retarded. You can't blame the coach for the players drafted and sign. Mostly because the HC doesn't sign or draft players.

And nary a running game to hold a lead. Didn't exactly have gutsy Bradshaw and Jacobs back there.

been fired much sooner along with Reese.

In comment 14065118 twostepgiants said:

Quote:

Enough with the sugarcoating 2013- Giants lose 6 straight games to open season 2014- Giants lose 7 straight games in midseason 2015- Giants lose 6 of 7 games to end season If that wasnt enough- the blowout losses 2013- Giants lose 38-0, 31-7, 23-0, 37-14 2014- giants lose 27-0, 38-17, 35-14 2015- giants lose 27-7, 49-17 Alot of these games were over by halftime and alot to not even good teams It was bad.

Let’s go over the roster. Please.

Oh never mind that’s not convenient for some of you.

The 2015 defense was nothing short of terrible. The O did its part. The team wasn’t good enough yet they were in every game.

He wasn’t perfect but the decision to fire coughlin 2/3 of the way through a rebuild and replace him with bozo the clown was monumentally bad. Nothing short.

In comment 14065013 since1925 said:

Quote:

He constantly put demands on the players but none on himself. He was a very good coach all week except the three hours during the game. His time management at the end of the second Patriots SB game was an embarrassment. I will always believe that Eli dragged TC's sorry butt to both those SBs.

And if coughlin elected to drain clock and then the kicker misses the FG we’d all be killing him to this day.

Coughlin has won everywhere he’s been. This is classic Monday morning qbing at its best.

In comment 14065184 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 14065013 since1925 said: Quote: He constantly put demands on the players but none on himself. He was a very good coach all week except the three hours during the game. His time management at the end of the second Patriots SB game was an embarrassment. I will always believe that Eli dragged TC's sorry butt to both those SBs. And if coughlin elected to drain clock and then the kicker misses the FG we’d all be killing him to this day. Coughlin has won everywhere he’s been. This is classic Monday morning qbing at its best.

He's also been fired from everywhere he's been, to be clear.

Coughlin’s tenure was winding down and it was hard to defend 13-15 seasons but I said it 10 times if I said it once at the time, the giants had better be damn sure they have a good HC replacement coming in if they want to fire coughlin. Don’t fire the guy just because the masses scream for blood. And why hell would you field that bad of a defense in 2015 and then fire the HC if you planned on firing the coach to begin with? It was a bullshit strategy and plan — they set coughlin up to fail, then set Reese up to fail with the mcadoo hire and at the same time wasted resources, money and time.

The giants could have done 2-3-4 things differently back when they were deciding on what to do after the 2015 season and each choice would have been better than what they ended up doing.

Go check the defensive line and linebackers and secondary from 2015. The WRs? Lol... the tes????? The rbs??? Lol right... sure they underachieved. My ass they did. The OL was even better.

in hindsight the biggest mistake was not firing Reese along with him, the next mistake was hiring McAdoo, who I was hopeful for at first. It's clear now that offense could put up points in 2015 because of Eli and OBJ, but it was just off and completely inconsistent. Should have seen the writing on the wall when the offense was even worse off in 2016 that year without TC in charge. The defense was lights out that year and Eli/OBJ did just enough to win games. I'm very hopeful and excited for Shurmur now, my expectations for this season are to be actually competitive in games, meaningful games in December or a wild card berth would be icing on the cake.

In comment 14065189 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 14065184 djm said: Quote: In comment 14065013 since1925 said: Quote: He constantly put demands on the players but none on himself. He was a very good coach all week except the three hours during the game. His time management at the end of the second Patriots SB game was an embarrassment. I will always believe that Eli dragged TC's sorry butt to both those SBs. And if coughlin elected to drain clock and then the kicker misses the FG we’d all be killing him to this day. Coughlin has won everywhere he’s been. This is classic Monday morning qbing at its best. He's also been fired from everywhere he's been, to be clear.

He wasn’t fired as head coach of BC in the pros yes.

No one was winning in 2015.

Wiser than keeping Reese. Reese was a zealot until it was too late. Draft DL DB and WRs over and over his first 6 years. The rest of the roster be damned.

They should have shit canned them both really. TC did inherit some pretty good talent in Jax. They found a competent coach and drafted a stud RB. Drafted OL who didn’t suck as well. Suddenly Bortles looks better.

If Reese could have found one great OL in 11 years as a GM maybe he’d still have a job.

Seriously. His best OL draft pick ever was Pugh who was solid. 11 years. Reese was an u touchable for way too long. Bringing in Ross was beyond inept.

So if they were to keep on maybe it should have been TC. Ur my guess he wasnt the yes man Reese was

In comment 14065047 RDJR said:

Quote:

.

And not firing Reese. Both deserved to go.

We would have been worse with him in 2016 than with McAdoo, who did a great job managing games.

The problem was we didn't completely overhaul everything. We still haven't.

they were in a tricky spot because they were high on McAdoo, but hiring an assistant off of a losing staff was a very flawed approach.

2016 should have yielded a new GM & entire new coaching staff.

Coughlin had to go as far as a head coach, that was clear, but Reese stunk a lot worse and the talent level on the team was horrendous. They overpaid to get defensive players here because Reese was so horrible the year McAdoodles took over.

I wanted the Giants to fire Reese and bring Coughlin upstairs, if not that then I felt that they needed to get rid of both, but getting rid of the person that knew football talent for a bum was pathetic on our ownership, but with them if you play golf with them and are a good friend, then you have a job for life.

In comment 14065232 PaulN said:

Quote:

Coughlin had to go as far as a head coach, that was clear, but Reese stunk a lot worse and the talent level on the team was horrendous. They overpaid to get defensive players here because Reese was so horrible the year McAdoodles took over. I wanted the Giants to fire Reese and bring Coughlin upstairs, if not that then I felt that they needed to get rid of both, but getting rid of the person that knew football talent for a bum was pathetic on our ownership, but with them if you play golf with them and are a good friend, then you have a job for life.

If Reese had been great at his job and drafted Vernon, Jenkins and Harrison, they still would have hit free agency at the same time and would have gotten the same contracts. One of these days, you'll have an opinion that isn't factually incorrect.

was wrongfully gonna take the fall for the failures of Reese and Ross, and that's exactly what happened.

The org needed change, but the Giants being the Giants would always axe the coach before the GM.

And it's not clear to me TC would be a good GM.


Water under the bridge. I think Gettleman is a breath of fresh air if not new air. It's early, but I like his philosophy. Both he and Shumur seem so much more forthcoming and media friendly than the Reese/Coughlin regime. And as far as talking to the media, McAdon't was even worse.

So I would say it was the right decision

President is a good position for him. Still knows football. He is just too old to coach.

Plus, if you read. BBI, you would think TC won four super bowls in Jacksonville. They made the playoffs once. Let’s see how they do before annointing Coughlin

But Reese keeping his job made no sense to me. The Giants should have cleaned house then.

to win the East at 8-8.

All they needed was to win the two games after the bye at Washington and then at MetLife vs the Jets.

And it was the offense that spit the bit in both: 20-14 loss in DC and then 23-20 at home getting shut out the entire second half and overtime.

This what the 2015 NYG offense did on its first ten possessions against Washington in the biggest game of that year:

Interception
Interception
Punt
Punt
Punt
Punt
Punt
Interception
Punt
Punt

True facts.

In comment 14065086 djm said:

Quote:

Because of age discrimination. He’s better than at least half of the guys coaching today.

This is even more ridiculous. In a league with dog killers, wife beaters, drunk drivers - you think all of the NFL skipped right over a guy they thought could help them win because he was too old?

Could it be maybe they had a look at this record with Eli and thought that even in better times he was a good coach but had lost some off his fastball?

He didn't get another job because he stopped being a good coach. It happens.

In comment 14065277 jcn56 said:

Quote:

In comment 14065086 djm said: Quote: Because of age discrimination. He’s better than at least half of the guys coaching today. This is even more ridiculous. In a league with dog killers, wife beaters, drunk drivers - you think all of the NFL skipped right over a guy they thought could help them win because he was too old? Could it be maybe they had a look at this record with Eli and thought that even in better times he was a good coach but had lost some off his fastball? He didn't get another job because he stopped being a good coach. It happens.

I won’t attribute it all to his age, you’re right coughlin was struggling to win I myself kind of caved and understood letting coughlin walk, but it was and is easy to second guess. Especially when you factor in his replacement and how talent deficient that 2014-2015 team truly was. I still don’t think people acknowledge this nearly enough. Those defenses weren’t winning games. Not with anyone.

I just respect him for the man he is and he did adapt .
They should have cleaned house at that point and got rid
of Reese right along with him.
TC is a class act and a great humanitarian despite his blemishes and a few curious mistakes . H brought two Lombardi's and some of the best SB games in history .

lost six games where they took the lead or tied the game in the final two minutes.

The defense could not hold, and everybody knew it, including Tom Coughlin. That had to complicate his game management decisions.

but not to fire Reese at the same time and then replacing Coughlin with what Green Bay described McAdoo as the class clown.

In comment 14065291 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

lost six games where they took the lead or tied the game in the final two minutes.

Not true at all. In several of those close games the Giants offense did not take the lead or tie the game in the final two.

And, despite everything, the chance to win the division was there if the offense had shown up in winnable games

In comment 14065327 shyster said:

Quote:

In comment 14065291 Britt in VA said: Quote: lost six games where they took the lead or tied the game in the final two minutes. Not true at all. In several of those close games the Giants offense did not take the lead or tie the game in the final two. And, despite everything, the chance to win the division was there if the offense had shown up in winnable games

It absolutely is true. Here's an article on it from December 2015. And they had one more after that.

Link - ( New Window )

Quote:

The Giants 2015 season was plagued by their inability to close out games, as the Giants lost 6 games in which they held leads or were tied within the final 2 minutes of the games. These losses included their opening game in Dallas, their home opener against the Falcons, a road loss in New Orleans and 2 home defeats against the Patriots and the Jets. Had the Giants won these games, they would've been 11-5 and would've won the NFC East.

Link - ( New Window )

obvious.

For example the Jets game lost in OT was a close game but it wasn't a game the Giants tied or took the lead in the final two.

The Giants never scored after halftime and seven of their 20 points were from a punt return.

I did not believe he was the problem at all. However, after 2015, I conceded that he was part of the reason we had that dismal season. His coaching in-game and with personnel decisions cost them games. But, I only felt he should have been fired if Reese was also fired. Reese was, ion my opinion, the primary reason the Giants were on the decline. His drafts and FA moves for more than a couple of seasons were awful.

So when Reese remained, I was pissed. When Reese remained and we hired someone who barely had gotten his feet wet as an NFL coach I was more pissed. The success we had in 2016 had very little to do McAdoo, in my opinion, but rather a lot to do with the personnel acquired on D. The regression in 2017, again in my opinion, had a ton to do with the absolutely awful coaching staff (the entire staff) and again a terrible job by the GM. The final outcome of both being fired, along with most of the staff I support 100%.

He should have been gone in 2013 or 2014. There becomes a time when the message becomes old and stale and the players aren't listening. It doesn't mean he couldn't coach, just his program had run its course. Now Reese and Ross should have been shown the door with TC. Those two gave him a shit roster that was and still is extremely thin. Blowing money on mediocre players to fill roster depth is a terrible way to build a winning program. Reese and Ross' mismanagement will hurt the team for the next two years at least.

The best thing for both TC and the Giants was that he was fired. It's just a shame the team didn't have the balls to do the same with Ross and Reese at the same time

From my perspective, there were a lot of us who wanted Tom to stay. We knew the problem was the GM. And we knew it three years before TC was let go when the Giants STILL could not get enough good talent on the Oline!

But forget the Handley-Reeves-Fassell years. It was incredibly stupid to exit Coughlin off the premises using his head to open the f*cking door without having some good coaching candidates in mind.

Should have just let <insert Gruden, Saban, Cohwer name here> taken over as GM/coach.

Three straight losing seasons, four seasons in a row of no playoffs. The problem was hiring McAdouche to replace TC. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see how much of a steaming pile of crap McAdoo's offense was while Coughlin was still around, because TC still had his imprint on the design despite BM being the offensive coordinator.

with the entire coaching staff and the entire front office. Most of the mess the Giants became after 2011 was because of Tom Coughlin getting old and the Mara's trying to protect him and prop him up. They're doing the same thing with Eli Manning now. In the last 5 years the Giants have been as mismanged as the mid 70's.

look how theve faired since hes been gone, last year was a train wreck, the locker room unravelled quick, the play calling was atrocious, no coughlin should not have been let go, look hows hes help build on jacksonville, i know its a different role but the guy knows what hes doing. dumb move then, dumb move now.

At a minimum not firing Marc Ross at the same time of before Coughlin was inexcusable.

At the time I wanted TC to stay with the organization and take over Mara's role, but realized that was not feasible as Mara was not going to fire himself.

Unfortunately, we've since learned that he'd have been a far better GM than Reese.

TC fired and was shocked that it actually happened. I really didn't think they would do it right until the day it happened. My rationale at the time (and it still is) was that it was very risky to go with an unproven head coach when Eli only had a few years left. BM was a clear bust. We'll see how Shurmur works out. Shurmur has no track record of success as a HC, so we will just have to wait to see if he is any good. I would have put my money on TC eventually turning things around over most others because he was an above average HC - a two-time super bowl winner - but it's all speculative and water under the bridge at this point. It doesn't matter now.