Prevailing opinion in Jan 2016 was Tom Coughlin should go

In comment 14065003 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14064992 nygiants16 said: Quote: what has he done? for the most part their core and best players were there before he got there... a person that gets very slighted is marrone He signed Calais Campbell, traded for Marcelo Dareus, signed Barry Church, drafted Fournette, drafted Cam Robinson... That’s a fairly good group of contributors...no?

Unclear of the chain of command but TC is not the GM.I'm sure he had input but maybe it's not accurate giving him full credit for all of those moves.

In comment 14064964 bluepepper said:

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Mara can't let go.

In a span of two months last year, Mara may have made two decisions that set this team back a decade.

His commitment to Eli and his hiring, per Accorsi, of Gettleman as GM.

But they did not have a replacement.

I love TC and hated to see him go...but it was time.

Definitely had nothing to do with 3-13.

His coaching to the talent and new Cba rules and was out coached on a number of occasions in 2015. We lost a number of games due to lack of smart decisions. His clueless look in the Carolina debacle said it all as he completely lost control. The fact that he didn’t have any head coaching offers after that shows we made the right call to cut ties. If he still had it someone would have offered him a job Mara messed up by succeeding him with mcadoo. Reese and the scouts were definitely part of the problem as well

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In comment 14065009 OntheRoad said:

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I think he could have gone a lot further in the playoffs.

And the Giants canned his ass. No wonder Snee was angries.

In comment 14064964 bluepepper said:

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Kept Reese too long Keeping Eli too long. Mara can't let go.

We kept Mara too long.

In comment 14064977 j_rud said:

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I just remember feeling like the whole thing had run its course. But the organization is a little hesitant on sweeping change and it essentially cost them 2 seasons.

Agree. But I can't say that I was in favor of firing Reese at the time.

I don't think the Giants handled it badly. Hindsight is 20/20, but for where they were at the time, their moves were logical. As observed above, TC looked shaky as head coach. They let TC go, put his designated successor in place and put everyone on notice, Reese included. When the team tanked, they finally cleaned house. If they knew it was all going to go south, then yeah, they'd have done the housecleaning all at once, or maybe dumped Reese and kicked Coughlin upstairs. But that wasn't obvious at the time.

give Coughlin complete credit for the turnaround in Jacksonville in.complete ignorance of his role there, and at the same time completely absolve him of his missteps in NY.

Facts don't matter, only our narrative matters.

And didn’t want him gone. 2 years later and I think they should have cleaned house.

That said he didn’t necessarily have to go. But people just had to have their pound of flesh and accountability and all that crap. Someone has to pay, even if it’s deteminental to the team, someone has to fucking pay.

Now tell me that this team wouldn’t have been better off with coughlin at the helm instead of mcadoo for that 2016 season when the team was remarkably healthy and the Nfl all but spread its legs for the taking. Please tell me that I could use a good laugh.

The giants were getting better from 2013-2014 and 2015. It was clear to see. That 2015 team was so devoid of defensive talent it’s downright shocking to behold. They battled every week when they had no business doing so. They should have kept coughlin. Deal with it.

Of his final season convince me it was time to move on

In comment 14065057 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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give Coughlin complete credit for the turnaround in Jacksonville in.complete ignorance of his role there, and at the same time completely absolve him of his missteps in NY. Facts don't matter, only our narrative matters.

it’s an emotional connection that defies logic

In comment 14064958 Britt in VA said:

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2016 with Coughlin as coach and that defense. I've always felt the offensive line was to blame for all of our woes. Coughlin should have been able to coach it out another year or two and then kick upstairs. We would be better for it.

m

Exactly. The giants gave coughlin no chance to succeed in 2015. They were doing it right after the 2013 debacle. They were rebuilding. They get to 2015 with a raw young team save for Beckham and Eli, they compete week in and out but god god forbid coughlin doesn’t run the absolute perfect game plan and makes 1-2 questionable moves and they use that as a reason to wack the guy, never once asking themselves who the fuck out there is better than coughlin? Mcadoo? Really?

At least we now have shurmur after a two year waste of time and money and Eli. We all should pray that shurmur is half the head coach coughlin was here. Good luck with that. I do think shurmur is a terrific offensive mind, what we don’t know is how good a leader or father figure he’s going to be here long term.

In comment 14064969 12aob said:

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is that TC mismanaged several games that year, particularly screwing up clock management late in games. That cost the team some wins. I felt he could no longer be relied on to coach at a high level. As for promoting him to GM, I can't say if he had the skill needed to evaluate players well enough to succeed there.

Ask yourself if any other coach gets more blood, sweat and drive out of that shit show of a roster. Forget this Monday morning qb crap with disecting coughlins every move that year. The guy goes for it on 4th down a few times or stays aggressive becusse the defense couldn’t stop a runny nose that season. Literally they couldn’t stop anyone.

Coughlin did a terrific job in 2015 with what he had. And he had two players with a shit.

In comment 14065057 LakeGeorgeGiant said:

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give Coughlin complete credit for the turnaround in Jacksonville in.complete ignorance of his role there, and at the same time completely absolve him of his missteps in NY. Facts don't matter, only our narrative matters.

I'm not a Coughlin guy. Never wanted Mara to hire him. But he has a huge role in Jacksonville. He's in charge of everything. For example, when he arrived Khan asked him if he wanted to coach the team? If not, if he was okay with Marrone. Coughlin said he was fine Marrone as the HC.

Coughlin earned the right to stay and he should've received full control.

If that would've happened, I do believe that Tom would've been so satisfied with being able to call all of the shots that he naturally would've started to delegate more and more.

Gilbride would've stayed the course, we would've fixed the Offensive Line, and we would've probably won another ring by now.

should have moved on from both of them in their previous roles. I would have had no issue moving Coughlin up to team president and having him help hire both the next GM and head coach, but I don't know if he would have been interested in that at the time because he still wanted to coach.

Dear prospective coaching candidate,

Your boss is a two time superbowl winning coach we literally just let go. Have at it.

Cheers,

J. Mara.


Coughlin also needed the time out to realise he wasn't going to be coaching anymore. I doubt he'd have transitioned straight without the year out, to a head office role, although I think, as his first go in Jacksonville shows, he's pretty good at it.

not perfect by any means but good. He was just a terrible manager, and his intermediate hires were terrible. The GM rarely has eyes on anything projected to go past the mid second round, there's just not enough time.

Because of age discrimination. He’s better than at least half of the guys coaching today.

That's what should have happened.

Always grateful for the two SB runs but there were too many years where the team under performed given the talent. Way too many second half of the season collapses.

His last season was an enigma in itself in that I thought it was one of the better coaching performances of his career given the trash on the roster. But the amount of late game losses that year were somewhat of a microcosm of his tenure here.

Good coach but it was time to move on.

The problem from majority of the people I heard from around the league was in keeping everyone BUT Coughlin. They all agreed it was time for Coughlin to go but using him as the scapegoat left a little black eye.

had major input on player acquisition. It's silly to think a 2 time SB, borderline HOF, HC is not getting a say. It's been acknowledged by Mara that he had big time input.

This was his team just as much as it was Reese's. As Fatman said, they both should have gone together, but it was absolutely time for him to go. 2 SB's are fantastic. Missing the playoffs more often than not, and trending in the wrong direction, is a major blemish.

In comment 14065100 fkap said:

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had major input on player acquisition. It's silly to think a 2 time SB, borderline HOF, HC is not getting a say. It's been acknowledged by Mara that he had big time input. This was his team just as much as it was Reese's. As Fatman said, they both should have gone together, but it was absolutely time for him to go. 2 SB's are fantastic. Missing the playoffs more often than not, and trending in the wrong direction, is a major blemish.

To an extent, yes, but that 2014-2015 team wasn’t spending any money. They were saving up for a 2016 spending spree. They should have kept coughlin for one more year or cleaned house completely in 2013.

I’m glad we have shurmur now but what a wasteful embarrassing disaster 16-17 was. That 16 team could have won something.

She was very clear in saying we should have fired our GM and not our coach.

Before we give too much credit though, she also said something this summer to the effect that Davis Webb had the best camp of all our QB's. :-)

Enough with the sugarcoating

2013- Giants lose 6 straight games to open season

2014- Giants lose 7 straight games in midseason

2015- Giants lose 6 of 7 games to end season

If that wasnt enough- the blowout losses

2013- Giants lose 38-0, 31-7, 23-0, 37-14

2014- giants lose 27-0, 38-17, 35-14

2015- giants lose 27-7, 49-17

Alot of these games were over by halftime and alot to not even good teams

It was bad.

Reese should have joined Coughlin... TC had lost his edge as a HC. Reese long before lost his mojo as GM. McADoo was a rush job. Too bad he did not end up with the Eagles....

In his last season he put us in position to win quite a few times but we had a Pop Warner defense that couldn't hold on to a lead if handed to them on a platter.
The argument that he is responsible for personnel is retarded. You can't blame the coach for the players drafted and sign. Mostly because the HC doesn't sign or draft players.

But didnt do it overall with Reese etc..

Who knows if they had done as o, maybe outlook for this season wouldve been different with a more settled roster and contention

In comment 14065129 Thunderstruck27 said:

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In his last season he put us in position to win quite a few times but we had a Pop Warner defense that couldn't hold on to a lead if handed to them on a platter. The argument that he is responsible for personnel is retarded. You can't blame the coach for the players drafted and sign. Mostly because the HC doesn't sign or draft players.

And nary a running game to hold a lead. Didn't exactly have gutsy Bradshaw and Jacobs back there.

been fired much sooner along with Reese.

In comment 14065118 twostepgiants said:

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Enough with the sugarcoating 2013- Giants lose 6 straight games to open season 2014- Giants lose 7 straight games in midseason 2015- Giants lose 6 of 7 games to end season If that wasnt enough- the blowout losses 2013- Giants lose 38-0, 31-7, 23-0, 37-14 2014- giants lose 27-0, 38-17, 35-14 2015- giants lose 27-7, 49-17 Alot of these games were over by halftime and alot to not even good teams It was bad.

Let’s go over the roster. Please.

Oh never mind that’s not convenient for some of you.

The 2015 defense was nothing short of terrible. The O did its part. The team wasn’t good enough yet they were in every game.

He wasn’t perfect but the decision to fire coughlin 2/3 of the way through a rebuild and replace him with bozo the clown was monumentally bad. Nothing short.

In comment 14065013 since1925 said:

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He constantly put demands on the players but none on himself. He was a very good coach all week except the three hours during the game. His time management at the end of the second Patriots SB game was an embarrassment. I will always believe that Eli dragged TC's sorry butt to both those SBs.

And if coughlin elected to drain clock and then the kicker misses the FG we’d all be killing him to this day.

Coughlin has won everywhere he’s been. This is classic Monday morning qbing at its best.

In comment 14065184 djm said:

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In comment 14065013 since1925 said: Quote: He constantly put demands on the players but none on himself. He was a very good coach all week except the three hours during the game. His time management at the end of the second Patriots SB game was an embarrassment. I will always believe that Eli dragged TC's sorry butt to both those SBs. And if coughlin elected to drain clock and then the kicker misses the FG we’d all be killing him to this day. Coughlin has won everywhere he’s been. This is classic Monday morning qbing at its best.

He's also been fired from everywhere he's been, to be clear.

Coughlin’s tenure was winding down and it was hard to defend 13-15 seasons but I said it 10 times if I said it once at the time, the giants had better be damn sure they have a good HC replacement coming in if they want to fire coughlin. Don’t fire the guy just because the masses scream for blood. And why hell would you field that bad of a defense in 2015 and then fire the HC if you planned on firing the coach to begin with? It was a bullshit strategy and plan — they set coughlin up to fail, then set Reese up to fail with the mcadoo hire and at the same time wasted resources, money and time.

The giants could have done 2-3-4 things differently back when they were deciding on what to do after the 2015 season and each choice would have been better than what they ended up doing.

Go check the defensive line and linebackers and secondary from 2015. The WRs? Lol... the tes????? The rbs??? Lol right... sure they underachieved. My ass they did. The OL was even better.

in hindsight the biggest mistake was not firing Reese along with him, the next mistake was hiring McAdoo, who I was hopeful for at first. It's clear now that offense could put up points in 2015 because of Eli and OBJ, but it was just off and completely inconsistent. Should have seen the writing on the wall when the offense was even worse off in 2016 that year without TC in charge. The defense was lights out that year and Eli/OBJ did just enough to win games. I'm very hopeful and excited for Shurmur now, my expectations for this season are to be actually competitive in games, meaningful games in December or a wild card berth would be icing on the cake.

In comment 14065189 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 14065184 djm said: Quote: In comment 14065013 since1925 said: Quote: He constantly put demands on the players but none on himself. He was a very good coach all week except the three hours during the game. His time management at the end of the second Patriots SB game was an embarrassment. I will always believe that Eli dragged TC's sorry butt to both those SBs. And if coughlin elected to drain clock and then the kicker misses the FG we’d all be killing him to this day. Coughlin has won everywhere he’s been. This is classic Monday morning qbing at its best. He's also been fired from everywhere he's been, to be clear.

He wasn’t fired as head coach of BC in the pros yes.

No one was winning in 2015.

Wiser than keeping Reese. Reese was a zealot until it was too late. Draft DL DB and WRs over and over his first 6 years. The rest of the roster be damned.

They should have shit canned them both really. TC did inherit some pretty good talent in Jax. They found a competent coach and drafted a stud RB. Drafted OL who didn’t suck as well. Suddenly Bortles looks better.

If Reese could have found one great OL in 11 years as a GM maybe he’d still have a job.

Seriously. His best OL draft pick ever was Pugh who was solid. 11 years. Reese was an u touchable for way too long. Bringing in Ross was beyond inept.

So if they were to keep on maybe it should have been TC. Ur my guess he wasnt the yes man Reese was

In comment 14065047 RDJR said:

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And not firing Reese. Both deserved to go.

We would have been worse with him in 2016 than with McAdoo, who did a great job managing games.

The problem was we didn't completely overhaul everything. We still haven't.

they were in a tricky spot because they were high on McAdoo, but hiring an assistant off of a losing staff was a very flawed approach.

2016 should have yielded a new GM & entire new coaching staff.

Coughlin had to go as far as a head coach, that was clear, but Reese stunk a lot worse and the talent level on the team was horrendous. They overpaid to get defensive players here because Reese was so horrible the year McAdoodles took over.

I wanted the Giants to fire Reese and bring Coughlin upstairs, if not that then I felt that they needed to get rid of both, but getting rid of the person that knew football talent for a bum was pathetic on our ownership, but with them if you play golf with them and are a good friend, then you have a job for life.

In comment 14065232 PaulN said:

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Coughlin had to go as far as a head coach, that was clear, but Reese stunk a lot worse and the talent level on the team was horrendous. They overpaid to get defensive players here because Reese was so horrible the year McAdoodles took over. I wanted the Giants to fire Reese and bring Coughlin upstairs, if not that then I felt that they needed to get rid of both, but getting rid of the person that knew football talent for a bum was pathetic on our ownership, but with them if you play golf with them and are a good friend, then you have a job for life.

If Reese had been great at his job and drafted Vernon, Jenkins and Harrison, they still would have hit free agency at the same time and would have gotten the same contracts. One of these days, you'll have an opinion that isn't factually incorrect.

was wrongfully gonna take the fall for the failures of Reese and Ross, and that's exactly what happened.

The org needed change, but the Giants being the Giants would always axe the coach before the GM.

And it's not clear to me TC would be a good GM.


Water under the bridge. I think Gettleman is a breath of fresh air if not new air. It's early, but I like his philosophy. Both he and Shumur seem so much more forthcoming and media friendly than the Reese/Coughlin regime. And as far as talking to the media, McAdon't was even worse.

So I would say it was the right decision

President is a good position for him. Still knows football. He is just too old to coach.

Plus, if you read. BBI, you would think TC won four super bowls in Jacksonville. They made the playoffs once. Let’s see how they do before annointing Coughlin

But Reese keeping his job made no sense to me. The Giants should have cleaned house then.

to win the East at 8-8.

All they needed was to win the two games after the bye at Washington and then at MetLife vs the Jets.

And it was the offense that spit the bit in both: 20-14 loss in DC and then 23-20 at home getting shut out the entire second half and overtime.

This what the 2015 NYG offense did on its first ten possessions against Washington in the biggest game of that year:

Interception
Interception
Punt
Punt
Punt
Punt
Punt
Interception
Punt
Punt

True facts.