It almost felt like we were playing uphill all game. They're just flat out better on the lines than we are and it's hard to win when you're losing that battle.
We'll definitely be competitive this year, I think this game showed that. However, the OL needs to improve if there's any hope of being a threat in the NFC though.
Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TD’s. Inexcusable.
That bomb the timing was off that is a big time play and he should and can hit it. Maybe if all the ones actually played in pre season it would be sharper.
outside of flowers, i feel pretty good about the team...barkley looked solid. OBJ too,. eli looked very good. its really on the OL offensively especially floiwers
the entire OL needed to play better. I am glad we kept it close. The offense was out of sync all day and it was not all about Flowers. Barkley got stuffed the entire first half. We could not run behind anyone. Eli played well for the most part but we really needed one of those TD passes to connect with OBJ. Too many drops too and even some play calling mistakes.
Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TD’s. Inexcusable.
He had to rush the first throw because of Flowers and on the second one OBJ was held as he made his second cut which disrupted his route, otherwise that's a TD
Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TD’s. Inexcusable.
we play a MUCH lesser team defensively next week....
Dallas isn't nearly as good at the back end as Jax but they have an excellent pass rush so if Flowers and company can't protect Eli he won't be able to exploit their secondary
But Shurmur made a few really questionable calls. I have no idea what he was thinking burning a play with that Jonathan Stewart run.
And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?
Ther is absolutely no reason for Stewart to have even been on the field. He scares nobody in the running game, is less of a threat in the passing game, Barkley was fresh as it was the start of a drive.
But Shurmur made a few really questionable calls. I have no idea what he was thinking burning a play with that Jonathan Stewart run.
And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?
Ther is absolutely no reason for Stewart to have even been on the field. He scares nobody in the running game, is less of a threat in the passing game, Barkley was fresh as it was the start of a drive.
That, but also running with two minutes left and you're down by 5 and you're not in the redzone. It was like Shurmur was eating time.
Wow, I this went way for the Giants than I expected, in some ways. The D got their act together after a wobbly start. The O was disappointing but give the Jags credit, their defense is very, very good.
an initial matter, I am asking the moderators to remove the "F" threads. Thank you.
We did some good things today. The D gave up 13 points, and forced Jacksonville to punt every time it had the ball in the second half. Apple was really good. So was Carter, Jenkins, and Collins. The run D was stout, although Fournette ran well when he was in the game.
Barkley showed why he was the #2 pick in the draft, and we got some good plays from OBJ, SS, and Engram. Eli distributed the ball well, although he missed OBJ for a TD.
Rosas was excellent, and Dixon punted well.
The problem is that the lines were dominated, but we'll likely not see a better OL or DL all year. I also think we should have given Flowers more help.
that 4th down especially. OBJ was giving that secondary fits all day and we target Shep on the outside and have OBJ running a 2 yard route I guess as a decoy.
And Barkley on the 2-pointer right after a 68 yard run. Don't think so.
After the Barkley TD was a back breaker. They beat themselves. Going with Stewart that drive after the Defense got them the ball right back was moronic. Had all the momentum, and just foolishly put Stewart in there with idiotic play calling
As always, they're killers, especially in a close game. O was about with I expected vs. this defense, our D was better than I expected. Don't throw in the towel just yet; they lost by 5 pts. to a better team.
If the helmet communications aren't working notify the ref or just call a play. Why would the communications even be needed? Don't they go onto the field with the play, already called, including the potential options/audibles?
--The defense overall was good, only allowed 13 points
--Odell is pretty much himself again
--Saquon will get his
--Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill made plays
They just stood toe to toe with one of the best d’s Â
In the league. Sucks we came up short and it ended like that but the future is definitely looking better. Nobody expected to be contenders this year so personally I’m going to see the young guys develop
You should not expect a "good" unit this year, but I would look at this game through the right context...the Jags DL is extremely talented. I'm hoping they can improve as the year goes on and the quality of the opponent normalizes.
Jacksonville is very good on both Offense and defense. Our Defense played very good. Our offense could have played better but they are still learning how to gel together.
Flowers needs to be upgraded as well as the RG. Eli still has no time back there but we have good reason to be excited for what this team can do.
Hopefully Gettleman can find some upgrades for the oline.
--The defense overall was good, only allowed 13 points
--Odell is pretty much himself again
--Saquon will get his
--Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill made plays
I would caution the defense point because Jax is really a subpar offense, especially when Fournette went out...
Shurmur should have put Jonathan "goal line" Stewart Â
In the league. Sucks we came up short and it ended like that but the future is definitely looking better. Nobody expected to be contenders this year so personally I’m going to see the young guys develop
This is good perspective. In fact I think the team learned a lot about what it will take on the top level and naturally they would have to go through growing pains like this
that 4th down especially. OBJ was giving that secondary fits all day and we target Shep on the outside and have OBJ running a 2 yard route I guess as a decoy.
And Barkley on the 2-pointer right after a 68 yard run. Don't think so.
If anything, the 2 point conversion is where you put Stewart in.
I would have flipped OBJ and Shepard on that 4th down. Why would you have OBJ run a pick for Shepard when he couldn't be covered all day and Shepard was running those underneath routes all day. He wasn't scaring them going outside at that point. That said, it still should have been PI.
I’m really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.
I'll feel encouraged tomorrow, right now it's hard to see past sloppy play leading to a loss in a game they could have, arguably should have, won. Eli missed Beckham twice in the endzone, Flowers still plays like he's fucking disabled, and a muffed punt to clinch it? Like I said, I'll be encouraged tomorrow.
Wow, I mean, yeah, you can’t open the 2nd half without a fuckin play but just take the 5 delay of game and keep the TO. Time out is too valuable to burn there.
Eli’s overthrows and INT... oy vey.
OBJ is uncoverable. He’s fucking amazing.
The defense didn’t fold.
Apple and the Jackrabbit had a good day.
Is Collins still a plus player?
We acquitted ourselves well today. Got a break when Â
In the league. Sucks we came up short and it ended like that but the future is definitely looking better. Nobody expected to be contenders this year so personally I’m going to see the young guys develop
This is good perspective. In fact I think the team learned a lot about what it will take on the top level and naturally they would have to go through growing pains like this
+1. Although losing sucks, tomorrow I will be encouraged
There was a flag picked up against Jax for defensive holding with the explanation that the ball was already thrown. Why is that not still holding? And, if not holding, isn't it PI?
Wet ball and rain certainly was a factor - drops, et. Â
was it was very winnable. The offense which we thought would be the bright side did not come through?! The defense did their part surprisingly, and it was up to the offense to win this game! Did not like what I saw from Shurmur, reminded me to much of Mcadoo's offense smh. I really hope the offense improves because they have to many weapon not to be successful..
And Barkley on the 2-pointer right after a 68 yard run. Don't think so.
Or having Engram block Calais Campbell...I mean what exactly did Shurmur expect would happen when a subpar blocking oversized WR went up against one of the best defensive players in the NFL?
and they gave up a TD when he went out, which was rough.
Eli has to do better with the pick 6's; I get that Flowers was to blame for the pressure, but you can't panic and make an errant throw like that. Some great passes today, some off the mark, but overall a good day if not for the INT.
The secondary had a good day today, great work by Jenkins and Apple.
Not sure why Stewart was on the field late in the game, and some of those clock management moves at the end were just bizarre.
Hopefully, the team gets better from here.
Also, if they didn't allow that 1 TD right before the half Â
today he was truly awful unlike sometimes in the past when he's borne a bit too much of the brunt. But Solder and Hernandez struggled as well. Doesn't bode well even if Wheeler or someone miraculously steps in and up at RT.
But Shurmur made a few really questionable calls. I have no idea what he was thinking burning a play with that Jonathan Stewart run.
And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?
Ther is absolutely no reason for Stewart to have even been on the field. He scares nobody in the running game, is less of a threat in the passing game, Barkley was fresh as it was the start of a drive.
I hope this f*cking loss makes Shumur and DG realize you can't waste a play on a f*cking mascot.
I’m really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.
I’m not encouraged at all. Basically, we were a one man offense of Odel drawing penalties and receiving the lion share of targets. When we ventured out to Engram and Shepard they were disappponting and Barkley’s sick TD run was great and should not be discounted, but he couldn’t get anything sustained. A home run hitter rb is a weapon but it is so much less valuable then a guy who can consistently move the chains with 5 and 6 yard carries.
Our defense was shaky in the first half, it let up a lot of yards including that long drive for a TD when Fournette went out. They were outstanding in the second half.
The Jags were without Fournette for more than 2 quarters and we didn’t win the game at home despite them having 0 second half offensive points. A missed opportunity and I still think this is a 5-8 win range team.
RE: RE: Unfortunateky, they're stuck with Flowers Â
Deflected TD pass was not on Eli. Flowers with the fluck up
It was on Flowers for sure, but a 14 year veteran QB has no business throwing it low and blind into the line on what had become a busted play. Game changing, terrible result, triggered by Flowers, but Eli should have buried it where no one could get it.
Pros
-defense looked very good
-Eli Apple, to his credit looked very good
- Barkley shows fairly well, most of his stats on one run.
-I like all of the defensive looks from Bettcher.
Cons
- game number 34 in a row under 30 points
-offense, for the most part still putrid, different names same result
- o line still pretty bad, although Eli got more time today then last year, not much but definitely more
- Eli continuing to show dimisnhed skills throwing the ball downfield. I’m not referring to the times when he’s under pressure, I’m talking about all the inconsistency on where the ball is delivered.
- coaching changed , still looks like mcadoo, terrible play calling down the stretch
I think we’re going to see a lot of these types of games. No one fears or respects the giants passing game, but we ll see one or two Barkley runs that makes everyone will go wild in a losing effort. These are the things that all of the overhaul fans feared, and they feared their ugly heads today.
Show me a line that can block with consistency. Show me a qb that doesn’t feel phantom pressure when he does get blocks and can throw the ball with accuracy and not miss wide open receivers. Show me receivers that catch the mall when it is delivered on time.
Outside of one Barkley run, I see more of the same from 2016 and 2017. Perhaps the problem runs deeper than mcadoo and he who shall remain nameless was part of a problem and not a passive victim?
For the BBI optimists who think the Giants can do no wrong, outside of one Barkley run, what should we be optimistic about, going on 3-15 dating back to Green Bay. Looks an awful lot like a 6-10 or 7-9 team that supposedly was win now and made all of their offseason decisions around one more run.
Deflected TD pass was not on Eli. Flowers with the fluck up
It was on Flowers for sure, but a 14 year veteran QB has no business throwing it low and blind into the line on what had become a busted play. Game changing, terrible result, triggered by Flowers, but Eli should have buried it where no one could get it.
What?
How to come up with he was throwing it blindly and how was he supposed to know it would get tipped?
Some of you guys crack me the hell up with these mental gymnastics to place blame on Eli
Hard to win a game with a ST turnover and allowing a defensive TD. Â
While it's unfair to boil a game down to one thing, my main headline would be "Offensive Line Is Non-Competitive on Too Many Plays for Giants to Take Winnable Game". Flowers was horrendous. He personally killed 2 or 3 drives on his own and his man caused the initial pressure on the tipped INT for TD. I never expected Solder to be Jonathan Ogden, but there were too many plays in which he was non-competitive too. Halapio and Hernandez got shoved into the backfield and Omameh flat out whiffed at least once that I saw.
Eli was solid, but he definitely missed Odell on what would've been a game-tying TD. His accuracy on some of the short passes was also problematic and limited the YAC potential.
Odell was Odell, which is GREAT. Saquon had 5 plays in which you see Hall of Fame ability, not just really good back stuff. Unfortunately, the o-line and TE blocking was no help at times.
The defense played as well as could be expected considering the general lack of speed and talent in some areas. Kudos to Eli Apple for a wonderful game.
RE: RE: Unfortunateky, they're stuck with Flowers Â
Its year 4 after a position change. It's past sending a message. The guy just can't play. It's not even his fault, really. He just doesn't have it and unfortunately there's no viable alternative at this point.
RE: 3 Head Coaches, 2 GMs, multiple position coaches Â
After the Barkley TD was a back breaker. They beat themselves. Going with Stewart that drive after the Defense got them the ball right back was moronic. Had all the momentum, and just foolishly put Stewart in there with idiotic play calling
Stewart isn’t the one who dropped the ball on a crossing route. And he had a decent run for positive yardage.
It sucks to lose but the team had a chance to win at the end. Against a team that had a 10 pt 4th quarter lead on the Pats in the AFC championship game, that’s no small accomplishment.
RE: I think everyone is discounting how much effect the rain had Â
But Shurmur made a few really questionable calls. I have no idea what he was thinking burning a play with that Jonathan Stewart run.
And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?
Ther is absolutely no reason for Stewart to have even been on the field. He scares nobody in the running game, is less of a threat in the passing game, Barkley was fresh as it was the start of a drive.
That, but also running with two minutes left and you're down by 5 and you're not in the redzone. It was like Shurmur was eating time.
Well, Shurmur was trying to establish the run for a balanced attack. He reminds me of McAdoo. The OL and the O playcalling was unimpressive. Our new offensive-genius coach is now 10-24 as a HC. The O’s net points: 9.
In the league. Sucks we came up short and it ended like that but the future is definitely looking better. Nobody expected to be contenders this year so personally I’m going to see the young guys develop
Hard to accept another loss. They did well against a top NFL team though. Even with the Oline issues, they didn't get blown out.
Before yo get so down on Flowers, I saw at least 4 holding penalties on the Jags were worse than that one they called in the 1st quarter. Neither Solder or Flowers did very well.
About what I expected, but they played better than the score showed.
Evan Engram better learn to catch the ball.
Eli had good numbers but missed Odell twice for TDs (1st half one was tough but should have been made.) On the 4th and 6 he absolutely missed Shepard who had a full step on his man. That INT TD may be blamed on pressure, but Eli stepped up and managed to get a tipped pass when he had Shepard or Engram open..a pro QB has to make that play. I do like the roll outs and Eli looked good doing it.
Barkley had two plays where he should have made two 1st downs. He should not have tried to dive over the pile and on a reception he needed to drive through the defender.
But we have a running back. Kid can play.
RE: Disappointed but still better play than what we saw last year Â
I’m really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.
I’m not encouraged at all. Basically, we were a one man offense of Odel drawing penalties and receiving the lion share of targets. When we ventured out to Engram and Shepard they were disappponting and Barkley’s sick TD run was great and should not be discounted, but he couldn’t get anything sustained. A home run hitter rb is a weapon but it is so much less valuable then a guy who can consistently move the chains with 5 and 6 yard carries.
My fear with Barkley was that would be that kind of guy but honestly I'm encouraged because he did run very tough a few times today. Not much to show for it but I think it will translate well against teams with lesser front sevens.
Pros
-defense looked very good
-Eli Apple, to his credit looked very good
- Barkley shows fairly well, most of his stats on one run.
-I like all of the defensive looks from Bettcher.
Cons
- game number 34 in a row under 30 points
-offense, for the most part still putrid, different names same result
- o line still pretty bad, although Eli got more time today then last year, not much but definitely more
- Eli continuing to show dimisnhed skills throwing the ball downfield. I’m not referring to the times when he’s under pressure, I’m talking about all the inconsistency on where the ball is delivered.
- coaching changed , still looks like mcadoo, terrible play calling down the stretch
I think we’re going to see a lot of these types of games. No one fears or respects the giants passing game, but we ll see one or two Barkley runs that makes everyone will go wild in a losing effort. These are the things that all of the overhaul fans feared, and they feared their ugly heads today.
Show me a line that can block with consistency. Show me a qb that doesn’t feel phantom pressure when he does get blocks and can throw the ball with accuracy and not miss wide open receivers. Show me receivers that catch the mall when it is delivered on time.
Outside of one Barkley run, I see more of the same from 2016 and 2017. Perhaps the problem runs deeper than mcadoo and he who shall remain nameless was part of a problem and not a passive victim?
For the BBI optimists who think the Giants can do no wrong, outside of one Barkley run, what should we be optimistic about, going on 3-15 dating back to Green Bay. Looks an awful lot like a 6-10 or 7-9 team that supposedly was win now and made all of their offseason decisions around one more run.
Show me something different.
The results were similar, but the playcaling was very different. For one, we didn't run everyone short of the sticks every 3rd down. For anothere, we didn't run everyone to the same zone. There were nice layers/route trees on plays, there were different formations. What I didn't like was too much in the shotgun.
and why does Beckham pussey foot OOB so much. Also Latimore 1 holding call and no receptions
Odell goes out of bounds when there is nothing there. He's not going to bowl guys over. He's playing smart to stay healthy. I'm fine with it.
Exactly. Odell had a career-threatening injury so anything he does to stay on the field and not deal with needless injury is fine by me, at least in the regular season
Pros
-defense looked very good
-Eli Apple, to his credit looked very good
- Barkley shows fairly well, most of his stats on one run.
-I like all of the defensive looks from Bettcher.
Cons
- game number 34 in a row under 30 points
-offense, for the most part still putrid, different names same result
- o line still pretty bad, although Eli got more time today then last year, not much but definitely more
- Eli continuing to show dimisnhed skills throwing the ball downfield. I’m not referring to the times when he’s under pressure, I’m talking about all the inconsistency on where the ball is delivered.
- coaching changed , still looks like mcadoo, terrible play calling down the stretch
I think we’re going to see a lot of these types of games. No one fears or respects the giants passing game, but we ll see one or two Barkley runs that makes everyone will go wild in a losing effort. These are the things that all of the overhaul fans feared, and they feared their ugly heads today.
Show me a line that can block with consistency. Show me a qb that doesn’t feel phantom pressure when he does get blocks and can throw the ball with accuracy and not miss wide open receivers. Show me receivers that catch the mall when it is delivered on time.
Outside of one Barkley run, I see more of the same from 2016 and 2017. Perhaps the problem runs deeper than mcadoo and he who shall remain nameless was part of a problem and not a passive victim?
For the BBI optimists who think the Giants can do no wrong, outside of one Barkley run, what should we be optimistic about, going on 3-15 dating back to Green Bay. Looks an awful lot like a 6-10 or 7-9 team that supposedly was win now and made all of their offseason decisions around one more run.
Show me something different.
The results were similar, but the playcaling was very different. For one, we didn't run everyone short of the sticks every 3rd down. For anothere, we didn't run everyone to the same zone. There were nice layers/route trees on plays, there were different formations. What I didn't like was too much in the shotgun.
They scored 15 points. Show me something different. If the play calling was better, what’s the problem?
My guess is Eli wouldn't have led the team to a TD Â
Where were the TD's today other then Barkley. More likely he would have thrown another pick.
Most OL lines are nothing to write home about. Its just that Qb's maneuver better. And the few golden opportunities you have to make a big play on a wide open receiver flying down field you need to make those plays.They are few and far between so to throw a poor pass is a game killer .
in feeling the afterglow of a big Giants victory. You know, the kind of win that makes the other games you watch more enjoyable, the talk radio in the background, more fun.
Been a long time. Going to be a long time unless the offensive line becomes at least adequate on certain passing downs and short yardage.
RE: My guess is Eli wouldn't have led the team to a TD Â
Where were the TD's today other then Barkley. More likely he would have thrown another pick.
Most OL lines are nothing to write home about. Its just that Qb's maneuver better. And the few golden opportunities you have to make a big play on a wide open receiver flying down field you need to make those plays.They are few and far between so to throw a poor pass is a game killer .
I’m really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.
. Agreed. They are not there yet, but looking better. That’s the important takeaway.
It’s week one with a new coach and front office. Did you expect we wouldn’t show up? Jax is not good offensively. Their D is dominant. We lost. No silver lining. If 13 and 26 show up we will compete.
moreso is his fundamental lack of grasp of playing the position.
- on his second 15 yard penalty on the first possession (that some here called debatable, anything but), he was shaking his head, shrugging his shoulders, expressing (to my eyes) that he had not held, had not done anything to incur the penalty (Collinsworth on Thursday night gave an excellent tutorial on when and why Flowers was called on it when he was)
- his trip (almost as egregious as the Dallas OT that hooked Tuck's leg and crippled him for a good chunk of the season) was so blatant, he was so beat, he's like a man drowning in a storm-tossed sea who will do anything he can think of that will 'salvage' the situation
- the last possession, when he gave up two really bad pressures that forced Eli to hurry the passes, I believe it was not Calais C but a lighter DE (maybe a LB), who just bull rushed EF who had no clue how to anchor and slow the d lineman.
The fact that three well regarded OL coaches have come up empty with the guy seems to indicate that he has very little mental resources to learn the position, recognize what the DL is doing, improve technique, etc.
Some guys completely wide open. Lack of a pass rush without blitzing is troublesome. Run D also had a few issues, but one long run by Bortles skewed the rushing totals for J’ville. Overall, I think the D played fairly well. J’ville is not a juggernaut on offense and so this is a good start, but has to get better.
On O - Oline hung in there against a really tough opponent, but Flowers is going to have to be replaced next year. There’s no doubt about that. I have to ask why we didn’t put Ellison over there more in critical situations?! Anyway, running game, other then 1 great run, was not good either....I think that too is attributable to poor run blocking. Passing O was not bad, but Eli missed a few TDs to OBJ. Oline did a decent job in Pass Pro most of the game, but Flowers gave up too much pressure in critical junctures of the game.
On ST - Rosas was good, Dixon punted well and coverage units were good. Came down to one poor PR at the end.
Two years ago, D won the 11 games. Last year, they got hurt and disillusioned, playing 45 of 60 minutes. Eli got 6 points (2 FGs) and gave 7, for net -1. D got 3 points (from INT) and despite givihg O great field position thereafter, O did nothing. Lots if lateral play calls, very little up the middle. Shurmur was outcoached. Too bad Mara didnt keep TC and Spags, and lose JR and McAdoo after 2015.
Eli is unathletic. He can barely move; he is immobile and is, of course, no running threat. His passes are inconsistent. His best days, despite the rhetoric, are 7 years behind him.
Why not put Wheeler in at RT? He could NOT have been worse than EF.
Play calling, on again, off again Eli, poor return teams, and an OL which looks no better than last year. Pugh, Richburg and Fluker are no worse than what they have added.
- Run blocking as bad or worse than the last few years
- Virtually nothing offensively outside of Beckham, Shepard and Barkley
- Manning the same good, but not game changing QB he's been for the last several years
The tackles will play better as the year progresses. Latimer and Ellison will get more targets and be good for a few hundred yards each. Manning will duplicate his 2016 season.
Should be good for a 6-7 win year and better play down the stretch.
offensively, but some of you guys aren't realizing that this is the best defensive line, best coverage LBs, and best cornerbacks the Giants will face all season... all on one team. And yet there were still opportunities for the offense to make plays.
and dumping Hunter Sharp last week. Clay is terrible. I think the FO outsmarted themselves completely. It was even more brilliant than iverpaying a washed up J Stewart and trading the best center they had.
DG is showing why he needed a job and Shurmur is really McAdoo with a mask on.
Two years ago, D won the 11 games. Last year, they got hurt and disillusioned, playing 45 of 60 minutes. Eli got 6 points (2 FGs) and gave 7, for net -1. D got 3 points (from INT) and despite givihg O great field position thereafter, O did nothing. Lots if lateral play calls, very little up the middle. Shurmur was outcoached. Too bad Mara didnt keep TC and Spags, and lose JR and McAdoo after 2015.
Eli is unathletic. He can barely move; he is immobile and is, of course, no running threat. His passes are inconsistent. His best days, despite the rhetoric, are 7 years behind him.
Why not put Wheeler in at RT? He could NO
T have been worse than EF.
Oh no? Wheeler is not the answer. You obviously haven't been watching. As bad as Flowers is, Wheeler is worse.
we will play all year. Outside of our OT play a lot to be optimistic about. Shepard & Beckham are a great 1-2 punch, Barkley will only get better, the secondary looked good albeit against a weak QB/WR team. Kicker went 3 for 3 special teams did their job. Liked the playcalls on offense, defense adjusted as the game went on and forced a ton of punts in the second half.
I am afraid that the Giants offense, Eli, and Shurmur are going to reveal the hidden abilities and talents of many defensive units this year. This game picked up where 2017 left off. One turnover TD, one TD scored. HC trying to run down game clock with 2 mins left and while needing a TD. Side tio side passing and up the gut running. Only one fooled? J Mara.
but we are just screwed continuing to play Flowers.
Some positives...
Apple will I think one if his better games. Made me eat my words for sure. Glad for him...and us.
OBJ and Barkley are all-world.
Eli with nice hot start.
Defense rose to occasion.
Some negatives...
Engram playing on drugs.
Eli had a couple TD chances that he missed yet again. And the pick 6 throw was unneeded although I know he is trying to make a play. But the $20M/year HOF smart play is to eat that one.
Flowers and Solder abused too many times.
Punt returner misplayed a few, but we werent scoring a TD with less than 1 minute anyway so....
A drop doesn't mean its over because every team has drops Â
Too many JAGs making up a large fraction of this roster, too many negative plays by players at parts of the depth chart that simply can't be occupied by JAGs at all.
Several questionable play-calls, dominated at the LOS on both sides (a 1 sack and little to no hurry afternoon), and poor accuracy by the QB at the most opportune times.
29 of 53 players on this roster were 2018 additions. It shows. Who cares if we lost by 5 or 11 or 21? 0-1 is 0-1 and quite frankly, with them losing their best player for 2+ quarters, this was our game to win.
Eli should kindly ask the dlineman to not tip his pass on a pass play. How dare he try to pass it on a pass play while stepping up away from the guy flying right by flowers
Eli should kindly ask the dlineman to not tip his pass on a pass play. How dare he try to pass it on a pass play while stepping up away from the guy flying right by flowers
That's a great excuse for him. Flowers sucks, without a doubt - but Eli has to know better than to force that ball. How many pick 6s has he thrown in his career?
Eli should kindly ask the dlineman to not tip his pass on a pass play. How dare he try to pass it on a pass play while stepping up away from the guy flying right by flowers
That's a great excuse for him. Flowers sucks, without a doubt - but Eli has to know better than to force that ball. How many pick 6s has he thrown in his career?
We've seen it all too often from him.
So just take the sack? And then he gets blamed for going down too easy. If the ball isnt tipped, maybe its not a pick 6? Guy made a play and tipped it. Shit happens.
I'm as tough on Eli as anyone but I don't blame him Â
This is the same thing as 2016 and 2017, minus one Barkley run. 3-15 over the last 18 and and 34 straight games below 30 points. This is Cleveland Browns bad.
And posters on here are selling this as a multi year rebuild? Ownership and the Front office told us this is a win now team built around one more Eli run. They don’t have 2-3 years to figure it out.
What I saw today was more of the same, a terrible offense with the same o line and qb who can’t function with high performance even when he’s given time. A 20m a year qb needs to be able to raise his game above some of these things.
Show us something different. I was told all offseason the giants made the right move passing on a qb, and were ready to go, show me something different.
Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TD’s. Inexcusable.
He had to rush the first throw because of Flowers and on the second one OBJ was held as he made his second cut which disrupted his route, otherwise that's a TD
Eli should kindly ask the dlineman to not tip his pass on a pass play. How dare he try to pass it on a pass play while stepping up away from the guy flying right by flowers
That's a great excuse for him. Flowers sucks, without a doubt - but Eli has to know better than to force that ball. How many pick 6s has he thrown in his career?
We've seen it all too often from him.
So just take the sack? And then he gets blamed for going down too easy. If the ball isnt tipped, maybe its not a pick 6? Guy made a play and tipped it. Shit happens.
Shit happens when it happens to you randomly.
Shit that's a result of your actions is just plain old shit that you brought on yourself.
A veteran QB with a shaky OL who has been playing in a tight game where his D has been blanking the offensive team should NOT be forcing that pass on his side of the field.
It's not too much to ask. That, and actually hitting guys in stride when they're open, but I'll give him a pass for the weather conditions today.
RE: RE: RE: Staring right down at 0-3 potentially Â
Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TD’s. Inexcusable.
He had to rush the first throw because of Flowers and on the second one OBJ was held as he made his second cut which disrupted his route, otherwise that's a TD
Agree.
+1 this wasn't the performance I expect from a QB making 20+ million..
Jacksonville has arguably the best defense in the league and we only lost by 5 points, but there were 5 to 10 unforced correctable errors on our part throughout the game which could have resulted in a win rather than a loss. Also, this was against a Jacksonville team that was 10-6 with 2 playoff wins last year.
Any skill position player with a season-ending leg injury has the potential to simply never fully recover and bremain the same player, but we lucked out and Beckham still has it.
I feel Barkley can break a run like that any given week, and once he gets some more NFL experience and involved in the passing game more, we'll see better results and consistency from him. Remember, in general, preseason simply doesn't prepare NFL teams for week 1 adequately and the defense is typically ahead of the offense in terms of week 1 effectiveness.
Our receivers, especially Engram, need to stop dropping passes, but the talent is all there. Eli looked pretty sharp when he had time to throw; sure he wasn't perfect, but I feel comfortable saying he still has enough juice to take this team into the playoffs and ride a hot streak at the end of the year, just like he has twice before for SB wins. Also, he wasn't exactly in sync with all of his receivers, but his arm strength was there and his misses were generally overthrown versus underthrown.
Our biggest issues: Flowers is terrible and our punt returners have been inconsistent and unreliable the entire offseason. At this point, I just want a PR that can 100% catch the ball, I don't even need return yards and I'll be happy. Those two positions need to be addressed and if either of those two issues didn't popup today, the Giants would have likely won the game.
This team has the potential to be a playoff team just a year removed from a 3-13 season. With all that said, the quality of our coaching staff, our new schemes, and our new personnel department led by Mr. Gettleman are absolutely huge improvements over the past couple of years. I'm confident they will continue to work their asses off until we find the correct players for our remaining positions of need. I'd say those two spots plus adding improved depth at every position are at the top of their list.
I wouldn't be even remotely this optimistic if this were a week 1 loss last year given the presence of McAdoo and Reese.
Home wrecker . Flowers had Zero chance against him he abused
Soldier as well . Last Season he had 4 sacks in the Jags opener . vs Texans . They are tough in the trenches on both sides of the ball ..
Some of the play calling was less than desirable .
Barkley didn't need to be rested . The two point play call after a 68 yard run . That is the one time I would have considered using Stewart he is suited for the goal line .
some of the short passes that are dangerous for not only turnovers batted balls ect. but getting players killed
Where the hell was Ellison on the 3rd and 5-7 yard plays .
He has size unlike Enram he can block and very good hands .
They never split Barkley wide and like zero wheel routes .
I would consider Mercedes Lewis and any RT that could be found . Flowers is gonna get Eli Killed .
It almost felt like we were playing uphill all game. They're just flat out better on the lines than we are and it's hard to win when you're losing that battle.
We'll definitely be competitive this year, I think this game showed that. However, the OL needs to improve if there's any hope of being a threat in the NFC though.
Pretty much my thoughts but I’ll caveat them by saying I never like to take too much good from a home loss. Yeah, we competed, but still a loss. With that said, you have to be moderately pleased with the D and seeing Barkley and Beckham do their thing is reassuring as well.
I just wish this team wasn’t always saddled with god awful at a position or two. Those guys fucking kill us year in year out. Can we just have kinda bad at RT instead of nightmarish bad?
a reason to be somewhat optimistic if you're so inclined: they had a chance to win in the last 2 min. against one the best teams in the league; that Jags D is terrific across the board; Saquon is who they said he was; OBJ is back; Eli had a good game under constant pressure; he had to unload the ball on the first OBJ miss; on the second, Beckham was impeded just enough to ruin the timing; D turned it around and shut down the Jags in the 2nd half; kicking game looked good, Rosas solid; good game for Apple; and Shephard's block on Barkley's TD run was a thing of beauty.
On the other hand, too many drops and Engram had a terrible game; needs to fight for some of those contested balls; O-line issues magnified by Jags superb front; Flowers is who we said he was; really missed Vernon; why was Clay signed, exactly and wasn't that an oppportunity to put Beckham back there? Why wasn't Jonathon Stewart in the game for the 2pt try?
This, suprisingly, at least to me, became a winnable game. For first game, new D, new O, they didn't suck
I agree with all of what you both said. There are no good losses in the NFL. 0-1 sucks. The best part of the day for me was the defensive scheme. Unfortunately as noted above the Giants are so weak in certain areas it’s difficult to see this season turning out well. Maybe a few more wins than last year and an even older QB next year.
but, predictably, the OL is an issue and the pass rush is not there yet.
Ultimately, this is a young football team that played like one. Crucial mistakes, left a lot of yards and crucial plays on the field because they weren't aware or lost focus.
Are drawing conclusions like “2 year rebuild at least” from just one freaking game. The FIRST game of the Shurmur era. At least the Giants were competitive and came up 5 points short to a team that almost went to the super bowl last year. Do you remember week 1 against Dallas a year ago? I would say this performance looked far more promising than that one.
The defense looked good to me. And I’m reserving all judgments of the offense until they play a defense that ISN’T the best defense in the league and they’ve all played together for at least 3-4 weeks. Everyone agreed that if we can get to 4-4 at the bye we’ll actually be in prime position to make a run, so losing today by 5 points to a fantastic team I’m not about to hit the panic button.
I’ll never knock a player for trying to make a play... Â
Barkley looks like everything hes billed and more. I cant think of any Giants running back who breaks those tackles and takes it to the house. Special player the Giants have there.
Beckham was Beckham, played very well today and cant really ask him to do more.
Shepard and Engram. For a team that has such a razor thin margin of error, those 4 drops cannot occur. Those 4 balls should have been caught and all of them would have gone for 1st Downs. Pretty disappointing for these two players were counting on.
The offensive line. Flowers is fucking awful, I dont know how this dude was the 9th overall pick in 2015. He fucking blows. He got his lunch taken from him today which I guess shouldnt surprise anyone. The pick 6 was a direct result of the immediate pressure he gave up. There has to be a better alternative somewhere.
Our prized free agent acquisition, Nate Solder also had a rough game. He gave up a lot of pressure and had a killer holding penalty that stalled a drive around mid-field. Also a disappointing appearance but I think hell bounce back next week. The Jags have the best defense in the game and the best defensive line in the NFL.
I didnt really key on Hernandez, Halapio or Omaheh. They didnt really get push and it seemed they allowed Eli to step up when he had too.
I thought Eli had a good game, I believe hes still got some magic left in the tank. Not really worried about him. Ill chalk up missing OBJ in the end zone in the second half to not enough reps yet. Hell be fine.
I thought the defense played relatively well, but the Jags arent exactly an offensive team. Bortles is mediocre and they dont have anyone who will wow you at the skill positions.
Eli Apple had a hell of a game, hopefully he can keep it up. Blanket coverage all day. Thats a good sign.
Need to see more of a pass rush though. Very stout against the run but Vernon is our only edge rusher. Not hard to see how/why the Giants liked Bradley Chubb in the draft. Especially with Vernon likely getting cut next off season to save cap space, this is a real need.
This loss stings as I felt like this game was for the taking. But I think it will get better! Onto Dallas and they are looking like complete fucking ass right now.
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I’m really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.
. Agreed. They are not there yet, but looking better. That’s the important takeaway.
It’s week one with a new coach and front office. Did you expect we wouldn’t show up? Jax is not good offensively. Their D is dominant. We lost. No silver lining. If 13 and 26 show up we will compete.
you really has issue with my take? You’re not remotely realistic.
about 9 plays that were single handily ruined by Flowers including multiple really huge plays that could have swung the drive. It really is unacceptable at this point. Leaving him out there and you risk losing huge plays and drives due to the fact that he literally can’t block.
Defense played well enough to win this game. Unfortunately the OL loses it for us again.
Nate Solder was as bad as Flowers today. I know that's tough to hear, but he was awful.
For real. Was at the game. He looked like horseshit.
Played well enough for Brady last year. He’s much better then what we had there last year. The left side will not be as much of an issue. Eli wasn’t running for his life or getting hit from the blind side.
Halapio has to get more push in the middle. I saw him getting pushed right back on a few occasions.
There were plays where guys were open in space. Unfortunately, They were getting tackled a yard or two short of the first down. The execution was off today. Hopefully, that will improve later in the season.
The defense looked good although we'll see how they look against a real passing offense. Bortles stinks.
This is what bothers me. But yet Rodgers with one leg can go 3 TD's in a quarter?! Don't say its Rodgers because the WR's have to run certain routes and catch the balls too. The Giants have players on offense and should be able to do the same thing.. smh..
Pros
-defense looked very good
-Eli Apple, to his credit looked very good
- Barkley shows fairly well, most of his stats on one run.
-I like all of the defensive looks from Bettcher.
Cons
- game number 34 in a row under 30 points
-offense, for the most part still putrid, different names same result
- o line still pretty bad, although Eli got more time today then last year, not much but definitely more
- Eli continuing to show dimisnhed skills throwing the ball downfield. I’m not referring to the times when he’s under pressure, I’m talking about all the inconsistency on where the ball is delivered.
- coaching changed , still looks like mcadoo, terrible play calling down the stretch
I think we’re going to see a lot of these types of games. No one fears or respects the giants passing game, but we ll see one or two Barkley runs that makes everyone will go wild in a losing effort. These are the things that all of the overhaul fans feared, and they feared their ugly heads today.
Show me a line that can block with consistency. Show me a qb that doesn’t feel phantom pressure when he does get blocks and can throw the ball with accuracy and not miss wide open receivers. Show me receivers that catch the mall when it is delivered on time.
Outside of one Barkley run, I see more of the same from 2016 and 2017. Perhaps the problem runs deeper than mcadoo and he who shall remain nameless was part of a problem and not a passive victim?
For the BBI optimists who think the Giants can do no wrong, outside of one Barkley run, what should we be optimistic about, going on 3-15 dating back to Green Bay. Looks an awful lot like a 6-10 or 7-9 team that supposedly was win now and made all of their offseason decisions around one more run.
Show me something different.
Really good post. Hard to argue with your overall outlook
Which is exactly how I think our season will go which averages out to a middle of the road team. Defense played alright, offense was up and down at best. Can't say this game did anything to bolster my expectations this season. Still hoping for the best, though. Ereck Flowers is one of the most putrid players to ever wear a Giants uniform. OLine as awhole still has alot of work to do.
Nate Solder was as bad as Flowers today. I know that's tough to hear, but he was awful.
I think you need to rewatch the first quarter if you feel solder was as bad as flowers. Tripping flag, holding flag, and narrowly avoided being responsible for a safety.
Play calling, on again, off again Eli, poor return teams, and an OL which looks no better than last year. Pugh, Richburg and Fluker are no worse than what they have added.
Need his replacement now
Brutal way to end. The better team won.
And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?
Flowers was LVP, Engram looked like shit as well. Eli looked good. In fact he looked like he always has. We wasted two years with the last coach.
To be the PR...he literally had one job
We'll definitely be competitive this year, I think this game showed that. However, the OL needs to improve if there's any hope of being a threat in the NFC though.
They should hire Alex Cora!
we play a MUCH lesser team defensively next week....
And now it's over. Weekend spent.
And we lost.
This, right now, is a bummer.
That bomb the timing was off that is a big time play and he should and can hit it. Maybe if all the ones actually played in pre season it would be sharper.
Overall, I’m excited for this team this season... what a tough test week 1 against that defense with an completely reassembled offensive line..
Defense is flying all over... competing... having fun...
Not mad at all at the Loss, but Flowers and Clay got to go... and Engram needs to get laid or something
OBJ is a back
Great first game for Barkley vs a tough run def.
Eli looked confident.
We will win some games
He had to rush the first throw because of Flowers and on the second one OBJ was held as he made his second cut which disrupted his route, otherwise that's a TD
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Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TD’s. Inexcusable.
we play a MUCH lesser team defensively next week....
Dallas isn't nearly as good at the back end as Jax but they have an excellent pass rush so if Flowers and company can't protect Eli he won't be able to exploit their secondary
And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?
Not really. Pass rush was far better than anticipated.
Ereck Fucking Flowers...somewhere Jerry Reese is giggling
Surprised? Did you not watch him drop passes last year?
Looks soft too, blocking and goes down like tissue paper, no power for YAC.
Looked like clear PI to me
That was the game right there
It’s the NFL. We’ve been rebuilding for 6 seasons. Our QB is in his 15th season. Rebuild?
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But Shurmur made a few really questionable calls. I have no idea what he was thinking burning a play with that Jonathan Stewart run.
And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?
Ther is absolutely no reason for Stewart to have even been on the field. He scares nobody in the running game, is less of a threat in the passing game, Barkley was fresh as it was the start of a drive.
That, but also running with two minutes left and you're down by 5 and you're not in the redzone. It was like Shurmur was eating time.
Very weird. Very weird playcall.
And now it's over. Weekend spent.
And we lost.
This, right now, is a bummer.
It does remind me of Ian Allen
We did some good things today. The D gave up 13 points, and forced Jacksonville to punt every time it had the ball in the second half. Apple was really good. So was Carter, Jenkins, and Collins. The run D was stout, although Fournette ran well when he was in the game.
Barkley showed why he was the #2 pick in the draft, and we got some good plays from OBJ, SS, and Engram. Eli distributed the ball well, although he missed OBJ for a TD.
Rosas was excellent, and Dixon punted well.
The problem is that the lines were dominated, but we'll likely not see a better OL or DL all year. I also think we should have given Flowers more help.
Tough loss, but I'm encouraged. Don't panic.
And Barkley on the 2-pointer right after a 68 yard run. Don't think so.
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poor job catching the football today. Missed opportunities there.
Looks soft too, blocking and goes down like tissue paper, no power for YAC.
Blocking one of the biggest and best defensive ends in the sport, sure.
Dissapointing but a lot to build on.
--Odell is pretty much himself again
--Saquon will get his
--Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill made plays
So true. And that shouldn't get lost in the sauce of this post-game analysis...
Flowers needs to be upgraded as well as the RG. Eli still has no time back there but we have good reason to be excited for what this team can do.
Hopefully Gettleman can find some upgrades for the oline.
--Odell is pretty much himself again
--Saquon will get his
--Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill made plays
I would caution the defense point because Jax is really a subpar offense, especially when Fournette went out...
This is good perspective. In fact I think the team learned a lot about what it will take on the top level and naturally they would have to go through growing pains like this
And Barkley on the 2-pointer right after a 68 yard run. Don't think so.
I would have flipped OBJ and Shepard on that 4th down. Why would you have OBJ run a pick for Shepard when he couldn't be covered all day and Shepard was running those underneath routes all day. He wasn't scaring them going outside at that point. That said, it still should have been PI.
I'll feel encouraged tomorrow, right now it's hard to see past sloppy play leading to a loss in a game they could have, arguably should have, won. Eli missed Beckham twice in the endzone, Flowers still plays like he's fucking disabled, and a muffed punt to clinch it? Like I said, I'll be encouraged tomorrow.
Eli’s overthrows and INT... oy vey.
OBJ is uncoverable. He’s fucking amazing.
The defense didn’t fold.
Apple and the Jackrabbit had a good day.
Is Collins still a plus player?
Eli was only okay, Engram didn’t help.
Playcalling was marginally better, that’s not saying much though.
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In the league. Sucks we came up short and it ended like that but the future is definitely looking better. Nobody expected to be contenders this year so personally I’m going to see the young guys develop
This is good perspective. In fact I think the team learned a lot about what it will take on the top level and naturally they would have to go through growing pains like this
+1. Although losing sucks, tomorrow I will be encouraged
Get used to it
And Barkley on the 2-pointer right after a 68 yard run. Don't think so.
Or having Engram block Calais Campbell...I mean what exactly did Shurmur expect would happen when a subpar blocking oversized WR went up against one of the best defensive players in the NFL?
How about playaction to Engram on that 2 point conversion. You know damn well you aren’t going to punch that in with a run against that DL
I was hopeful that Gettleman was able to upgrade to an average unit but I didn’t see that today.
Constantly in 3rd and forever. No consistency in the run game.
Disappointing games from Engram and Shepard.
Eli has to do better with the pick 6's; I get that Flowers was to blame for the pressure, but you can't panic and make an errant throw like that. Some great passes today, some off the mark, but overall a good day if not for the INT.
The secondary had a good day today, great work by Jenkins and Apple.
Not sure why Stewart was on the field late in the game, and some of those clock management moves at the end were just bizarre.
Hopefully, the team gets better from here.
That said, there were a number of positives to take from this game.
Get used to it
Put Wheeler in there. Try to send him a message
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in for the 2-point conversion, right after Saquon's 70-yard run, instead of on the next possession.
How about playaction to Engram on that 2 point conversion. You know damn well you aren’t going to punch that in with a run against that DL
Likely he would have dropped it.
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But Shurmur made a few really questionable calls. I have no idea what he was thinking burning a play with that Jonathan Stewart run.
And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?
Ther is absolutely no reason for Stewart to have even been on the field. He scares nobody in the running game, is less of a threat in the passing game, Barkley was fresh as it was the start of a drive.
I hope this f*cking loss makes Shumur and DG realize you can't waste a play on a f*cking mascot.
I’m not encouraged at all. Basically, we were a one man offense of Odel drawing penalties and receiving the lion share of targets. When we ventured out to Engram and Shepard they were disappponting and Barkley’s sick TD run was great and should not be discounted, but he couldn’t get anything sustained. A home run hitter rb is a weapon but it is so much less valuable then a guy who can consistently move the chains with 5 and 6 yard carries.
Our defense was shaky in the first half, it let up a lot of yards including that long drive for a TD when Fournette went out. They were outstanding in the second half.
The Jags were without Fournette for more than 2 quarters and we didn’t win the game at home despite them having 0 second half offensive points. A missed opportunity and I still think this is a 5-8 win range team.
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Barring injury til next year
Get used to it
Put Wheeler in there. Try to send him a message
Wheeler isnt any better
Looked like clear PI to me
That was the game right there
Yep! Couldn't believe no call
Get used to it
No they're not, they could always play Wheeler or sign someone else
-defense looked very good
-Eli Apple, to his credit looked very good
- Barkley shows fairly well, most of his stats on one run.
-I like all of the defensive looks from Bettcher.
Cons
- game number 34 in a row under 30 points
-offense, for the most part still putrid, different names same result
- o line still pretty bad, although Eli got more time today then last year, not much but definitely more
- Eli continuing to show dimisnhed skills throwing the ball downfield. I’m not referring to the times when he’s under pressure, I’m talking about all the inconsistency on where the ball is delivered.
- coaching changed , still looks like mcadoo, terrible play calling down the stretch
I think we’re going to see a lot of these types of games. No one fears or respects the giants passing game, but we ll see one or two Barkley runs that makes everyone will go wild in a losing effort. These are the things that all of the overhaul fans feared, and they feared their ugly heads today.
Show me a line that can block with consistency. Show me a qb that doesn’t feel phantom pressure when he does get blocks and can throw the ball with accuracy and not miss wide open receivers. Show me receivers that catch the mall when it is delivered on time.
Outside of one Barkley run, I see more of the same from 2016 and 2017. Perhaps the problem runs deeper than mcadoo and he who shall remain nameless was part of a problem and not a passive victim?
For the BBI optimists who think the Giants can do no wrong, outside of one Barkley run, what should we be optimistic about, going on 3-15 dating back to Green Bay. Looks an awful lot like a 6-10 or 7-9 team that supposedly was win now and made all of their offseason decisions around one more run.
Show me something different.
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Deflected TD pass was not on Eli. Flowers with the fluck up
It was on Flowers for sure, but a 14 year veteran QB has no business throwing it low and blind into the line on what had become a busted play. Game changing, terrible result, triggered by Flowers, but Eli should have buried it where no one could get it.
What?
How to come up with he was throwing it blindly and how was he supposed to know it would get tipped?
Some of you guys crack me the hell up with these mental gymnastics to place blame on Eli
Eli was solid, but he definitely missed Odell on what would've been a game-tying TD. His accuracy on some of the short passes was also problematic and limited the YAC potential.
Odell was Odell, which is GREAT. Saquon had 5 plays in which you see Hall of Fame ability, not just really good back stuff. Unfortunately, the o-line and TE blocking was no help at times.
The defense played as well as could be expected considering the general lack of speed and talent in some areas. Kudos to Eli Apple for a wonderful game.
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Barring injury til next year
Get used to it
Put Wheeler in there. Try to send him a message
They tried to shore up the OL, but the investments (Pugh, Flowers) didn't pan out.
Stewart isn’t the one who dropped the ball on a crossing route. And he had a decent run for positive yardage.
It sucks to lose but the team had a chance to win at the end. Against a team that had a 10 pt 4th quarter lead on the Pats in the AFC championship game, that’s no small accomplishment.
Both teams played in rain. Our pass D is vulnerable, it helped us on defense as well.
Sloppy, uninspiring play calling, same ol Eli, too many drops, horrific O Line play... oh yeah, and in a big spot or ST blew it.
I was hoping for more - didn't see it.
At least it's only week 1
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In comment 14067293 Anakim said:
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But Shurmur made a few really questionable calls. I have no idea what he was thinking burning a play with that Jonathan Stewart run.
And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?
Ther is absolutely no reason for Stewart to have even been on the field. He scares nobody in the running game, is less of a threat in the passing game, Barkley was fresh as it was the start of a drive.
That, but also running with two minutes left and you're down by 5 and you're not in the redzone. It was like Shurmur was eating time.
Well, Shurmur was trying to establish the run for a balanced attack. He reminds me of McAdoo. The OL and the O playcalling was unimpressive. Our new offensive-genius coach is now 10-24 as a HC. The O’s net points: 9.
Very weird. Very weird playcall.
That's a fair point. Good observation.
Hard to accept another loss. They did well against a top NFL team though. Even with the Oline issues, they didn't get blown out.
Before yo get so down on Flowers, I saw at least 4 holding penalties on the Jags were worse than that one they called in the 1st quarter. Neither Solder or Flowers did very well.
About what I expected, but they played better than the score showed.
Evan Engram better learn to catch the ball.
Eli had good numbers but missed Odell twice for TDs (1st half one was tough but should have been made.) On the 4th and 6 he absolutely missed Shepard who had a full step on his man. That INT TD may be blamed on pressure, but Eli stepped up and managed to get a tipped pass when he had Shepard or Engram open..a pro QB has to make that play. I do like the roll outs and Eli looked good doing it.
Barkley had two plays where he should have made two 1st downs. He should not have tried to dive over the pile and on a reception he needed to drive through the defender.
But we have a running back. Kid can play.
Outside of one Barkley run, what looked better on offense?
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I’m really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.
I’m not encouraged at all. Basically, we were a one man offense of Odel drawing penalties and receiving the lion share of targets. When we ventured out to Engram and Shepard they were disappponting and Barkley’s sick TD run was great and should not be discounted, but he couldn’t get anything sustained. A home run hitter rb is a weapon but it is so much less valuable then a guy who can consistently move the chains with 5 and 6 yard carries.
My fear with Barkley was that would be that kind of guy but honestly I'm encouraged because he did run very tough a few times today. Not much to show for it but I think it will translate well against teams with lesser front sevens.
-defense looked very good
-Eli Apple, to his credit looked very good
- Barkley shows fairly well, most of his stats on one run.
-I like all of the defensive looks from Bettcher.
Cons
- game number 34 in a row under 30 points
-offense, for the most part still putrid, different names same result
- o line still pretty bad, although Eli got more time today then last year, not much but definitely more
- Eli continuing to show dimisnhed skills throwing the ball downfield. I’m not referring to the times when he’s under pressure, I’m talking about all the inconsistency on where the ball is delivered.
- coaching changed , still looks like mcadoo, terrible play calling down the stretch
I think we’re going to see a lot of these types of games. No one fears or respects the giants passing game, but we ll see one or two Barkley runs that makes everyone will go wild in a losing effort. These are the things that all of the overhaul fans feared, and they feared their ugly heads today.
Show me a line that can block with consistency. Show me a qb that doesn’t feel phantom pressure when he does get blocks and can throw the ball with accuracy and not miss wide open receivers. Show me receivers that catch the mall when it is delivered on time.
Outside of one Barkley run, I see more of the same from 2016 and 2017. Perhaps the problem runs deeper than mcadoo and he who shall remain nameless was part of a problem and not a passive victim?
For the BBI optimists who think the Giants can do no wrong, outside of one Barkley run, what should we be optimistic about, going on 3-15 dating back to Green Bay. Looks an awful lot like a 6-10 or 7-9 team that supposedly was win now and made all of their offseason decisions around one more run.
Show me something different.
Odell goes out of bounds when there is nothing there. He's not going to bowl guys over. He's playing smart to stay healthy. I'm fine with it.
not according to Giants and not drafting for future...qb
so eli leaves they'll be stuck in that journeymen qb carousal which will still hold them back
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and why does Beckham pussey foot OOB so much. Also Latimore 1 holding call and no receptions
Odell goes out of bounds when there is nothing there. He's not going to bowl guys over. He's playing smart to stay healthy. I'm fine with it.
Exactly. Odell had a career-threatening injury so anything he does to stay on the field and not deal with needless injury is fine by me, at least in the regular season
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Pros
-defense looked very good
-Eli Apple, to his credit looked very good
- Barkley shows fairly well, most of his stats on one run.
-I like all of the defensive looks from Bettcher.
Cons
- game number 34 in a row under 30 points
-offense, for the most part still putrid, different names same result
- o line still pretty bad, although Eli got more time today then last year, not much but definitely more
- Eli continuing to show dimisnhed skills throwing the ball downfield. I’m not referring to the times when he’s under pressure, I’m talking about all the inconsistency on where the ball is delivered.
- coaching changed , still looks like mcadoo, terrible play calling down the stretch
I think we’re going to see a lot of these types of games. No one fears or respects the giants passing game, but we ll see one or two Barkley runs that makes everyone will go wild in a losing effort. These are the things that all of the overhaul fans feared, and they feared their ugly heads today.
Show me a line that can block with consistency. Show me a qb that doesn’t feel phantom pressure when he does get blocks and can throw the ball with accuracy and not miss wide open receivers. Show me receivers that catch the mall when it is delivered on time.
Outside of one Barkley run, I see more of the same from 2016 and 2017. Perhaps the problem runs deeper than mcadoo and he who shall remain nameless was part of a problem and not a passive victim?
For the BBI optimists who think the Giants can do no wrong, outside of one Barkley run, what should we be optimistic about, going on 3-15 dating back to Green Bay. Looks an awful lot like a 6-10 or 7-9 team that supposedly was win now and made all of their offseason decisions around one more run.
Show me something different.
The results were similar, but the playcaling was very different. For one, we didn't run everyone short of the sticks every 3rd down. For anothere, we didn't run everyone to the same zone. There were nice layers/route trees on plays, there were different formations. What I didn't like was too much in the shotgun.
They scored 15 points. Show me something different. If the play calling was better, what’s the problem?
Most OL lines are nothing to write home about. Its just that Qb's maneuver better. And the few golden opportunities you have to make a big play on a wide open receiver flying down field you need to make those plays.They are few and far between so to throw a poor pass is a game killer .
Accuracy and ball protection is a must for a QB
Been a long time. Going to be a long time unless the offensive line becomes at least adequate on certain passing downs and short yardage.
Most OL lines are nothing to write home about. Its just that Qb's maneuver better. And the few golden opportunities you have to make a big play on a wide open receiver flying down field you need to make those plays.They are few and far between so to throw a poor pass is a game killer .
Accuracy and ball protection is a must for a QB
Unreal. Lol.
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I’m really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.
. Agreed. They are not there yet, but looking better. That’s the important takeaway.
It’s week one with a new coach and front office. Did you expect we wouldn’t show up? Jax is not good offensively. Their D is dominant. We lost. No silver lining. If 13 and 26 show up we will compete.
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and we still can't shore up the OL over the last 4-5 years
They tried to shore up the OL, but the investments (Pugh, Flowers) didn't pan out.
Trying and doing are two different things. Overreaching for short arms Pugh and Richberg and passing on Gurley for Flowers is inexcusable.
- on his second 15 yard penalty on the first possession (that some here called debatable, anything but), he was shaking his head, shrugging his shoulders, expressing (to my eyes) that he had not held, had not done anything to incur the penalty (Collinsworth on Thursday night gave an excellent tutorial on when and why Flowers was called on it when he was)
- his trip (almost as egregious as the Dallas OT that hooked Tuck's leg and crippled him for a good chunk of the season) was so blatant, he was so beat, he's like a man drowning in a storm-tossed sea who will do anything he can think of that will 'salvage' the situation
- the last possession, when he gave up two really bad pressures that forced Eli to hurry the passes, I believe it was not Calais C but a lighter DE (maybe a LB), who just bull rushed EF who had no clue how to anchor and slow the d lineman.
The fact that three well regarded OL coaches have come up empty with the guy seems to indicate that he has very little mental resources to learn the position, recognize what the DL is doing, improve technique, etc.
On O - Oline hung in there against a really tough opponent, but Flowers is going to have to be replaced next year. There’s no doubt about that. I have to ask why we didn’t put Ellison over there more in critical situations?! Anyway, running game, other then 1 great run, was not good either....I think that too is attributable to poor run blocking. Passing O was not bad, but Eli missed a few TDs to OBJ. Oline did a decent job in Pass Pro most of the game, but Flowers gave up too much pressure in critical junctures of the game.
On ST - Rosas was good, Dixon punted well and coverage units were good. Came down to one poor PR at the end.
Eli is unathletic. He can barely move; he is immobile and is, of course, no running threat. His passes are inconsistent. His best days, despite the rhetoric, are 7 years behind him.
Why not put Wheeler in at RT? He could NOT have been worse than EF.
...with a legitimate right tackle.
Flowers will plague us whenever he goes up against talent.
W.H.E.E.L.E.R.
I was hopeful that Gettleman was able to upgrade to an average unit but I didn’t see that today.
Constantly in 3rd and forever. No consistency in the run game.
Disappointing games from Engram and Shepard.
Shepard?? Really? OK. You know sometimes people make you wonder what game they were watching. This is a classic example.
- Run blocking as bad or worse than the last few years
- Virtually nothing offensively outside of Beckham, Shepard and Barkley
- Manning the same good, but not game changing QB he's been for the last several years
The tackles will play better as the year progresses. Latimer and Ellison will get more targets and be good for a few hundred yards each. Manning will duplicate his 2016 season.
Should be good for a 6-7 win year and better play down the stretch.
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I am usually always optimistic....but this offensive line.
I was hopeful that Gettleman was able to upgrade to an average unit but I didn’t see that today.
Constantly in 3rd and forever. No consistency in the run game.
Disappointing games from Engram and Shepard.
Shepard?? Really? OK. You know sometimes people make you wonder what game they were watching. This is a classic example.
its hard to be consistent in run when youre playing the best front in the game. shit happensm we played well enough to win and just didnt it happens
DG is showing why he needed a job and Shurmur is really McAdoo with a mask on.
I'm totally hammered though.
Eli is unathletic. He can barely move; he is immobile and is, of course, no running threat. His passes are inconsistent. His best days, despite the rhetoric, are 7 years behind him.
Why not put Wheeler in at RT? He could NO
T have been worse than EF.
Oh no? Wheeler is not the answer. You obviously haven't been watching. As bad as Flowers is, Wheeler is worse.
I'm totally hammered though.
I am afraid that the Giants offense, Eli, and Shurmur are going to reveal the hidden abilities and talents of many defensive units this year. This game picked up where 2017 left off. One turnover TD, one TD scored. HC trying to run down game clock with 2 mins left and while needing a TD. Side tio side passing and up the gut running. Only one fooled? J Mara.
True. But offense was unimpressive all game. But fir Barkley’s breakout run, the Offense does what it loves to do: kick FGs.
Some positives...
Apple will I think one if his better games. Made me eat my words for sure. Glad for him...and us.
OBJ and Barkley are all-world.
Eli with nice hot start.
Defense rose to occasion.
Some negatives...
Engram playing on drugs.
Eli had a couple TD chances that he missed yet again. And the pick 6 throw was unneeded although I know he is trying to make a play. But the $20M/year HOF smart play is to eat that one.
Flowers and Solder abused too many times.
Punt returner misplayed a few, but we werent scoring a TD with less than 1 minute anyway so....
Maybe on the 2 point conversion a more mobile QB would have more challenging to the opponent and given us more flexibility
Several questionable play-calls, dominated at the LOS on both sides (a 1 sack and little to no hurry afternoon), and poor accuracy by the QB at the most opportune times.
29 of 53 players on this roster were 2018 additions. It shows. Who cares if we lost by 5 or 11 or 21? 0-1 is 0-1 and quite frankly, with them losing their best player for 2+ quarters, this was our game to win.
That's a great excuse for him. Flowers sucks, without a doubt - but Eli has to know better than to force that ball. How many pick 6s has he thrown in his career?
We've seen it all too often from him.
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Eli should kindly ask the dlineman to not tip his pass on a pass play. How dare he try to pass it on a pass play while stepping up away from the guy flying right by flowers
That's a great excuse for him. Flowers sucks, without a doubt - but Eli has to know better than to force that ball. How many pick 6s has he thrown in his career?
We've seen it all too often from him.
So just take the sack? And then he gets blamed for going down too easy. If the ball isnt tipped, maybe its not a pick 6? Guy made a play and tipped it. Shit happens.
And posters on here are selling this as a multi year rebuild? Ownership and the Front office told us this is a win now team built around one more Eli run. They don’t have 2-3 years to figure it out.
What I saw today was more of the same, a terrible offense with the same o line and qb who can’t function with high performance even when he’s given time. A 20m a year qb needs to be able to raise his game above some of these things.
Show us something different. I was told all offseason the giants made the right move passing on a qb, and were ready to go, show me something different.
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Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TD’s. Inexcusable.
He had to rush the first throw because of Flowers and on the second one OBJ was held as he made his second cut which disrupted his route, otherwise that's a TD
Agree.
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In comment 14067689 KWhite2250 said:
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Eli should kindly ask the dlineman to not tip his pass on a pass play. How dare he try to pass it on a pass play while stepping up away from the guy flying right by flowers
That's a great excuse for him. Flowers sucks, without a doubt - but Eli has to know better than to force that ball. How many pick 6s has he thrown in his career?
We've seen it all too often from him.
So just take the sack? And then he gets blamed for going down too easy. If the ball isnt tipped, maybe its not a pick 6? Guy made a play and tipped it. Shit happens.
Shit happens when it happens to you randomly.
Shit that's a result of your actions is just plain old shit that you brought on yourself.
A veteran QB with a shaky OL who has been playing in a tight game where his D has been blanking the offensive team should NOT be forcing that pass on his side of the field.
It's not too much to ask. That, and actually hitting guys in stride when they're open, but I'll give him a pass for the weather conditions today.
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In comment 14067300 Sean said:
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Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TD’s. Inexcusable.
He had to rush the first throw because of Flowers and on the second one OBJ was held as he made his second cut which disrupted his route, otherwise that's a TD
Agree.
+1 this wasn't the performance I expect from a QB making 20+ million..
Any skill position player with a season-ending leg injury has the potential to simply never fully recover and bremain the same player, but we lucked out and Beckham still has it.
I feel Barkley can break a run like that any given week, and once he gets some more NFL experience and involved in the passing game more, we'll see better results and consistency from him. Remember, in general, preseason simply doesn't prepare NFL teams for week 1 adequately and the defense is typically ahead of the offense in terms of week 1 effectiveness.
Our receivers, especially Engram, need to stop dropping passes, but the talent is all there. Eli looked pretty sharp when he had time to throw; sure he wasn't perfect, but I feel comfortable saying he still has enough juice to take this team into the playoffs and ride a hot streak at the end of the year, just like he has twice before for SB wins. Also, he wasn't exactly in sync with all of his receivers, but his arm strength was there and his misses were generally overthrown versus underthrown.
Our biggest issues: Flowers is terrible and our punt returners have been inconsistent and unreliable the entire offseason. At this point, I just want a PR that can 100% catch the ball, I don't even need return yards and I'll be happy. Those two positions need to be addressed and if either of those two issues didn't popup today, the Giants would have likely won the game.
This team has the potential to be a playoff team just a year removed from a 3-13 season. With all that said, the quality of our coaching staff, our new schemes, and our new personnel department led by Mr. Gettleman are absolutely huge improvements over the past couple of years. I'm confident they will continue to work their asses off until we find the correct players for our remaining positions of need. I'd say those two spots plus adding improved depth at every position are at the top of their list.
I wouldn't be even remotely this optimistic if this were a week 1 loss last year given the presence of McAdoo and Reese.
Soldier as well . Last Season he had 4 sacks in the Jags opener . vs Texans . They are tough in the trenches on both sides of the ball ..
Some of the play calling was less than desirable .
Barkley didn't need to be rested . The two point play call after a 68 yard run . That is the one time I would have considered using Stewart he is suited for the goal line .
some of the short passes that are dangerous for not only turnovers batted balls ect. but getting players killed
Where the hell was Ellison on the 3rd and 5-7 yard plays .
He has size unlike Enram he can block and very good hands .
They never split Barkley wide and like zero wheel routes .
I would consider Mercedes Lewis and any RT that could be found . Flowers is gonna get Eli Killed .
We'll definitely be competitive this year, I think this game showed that. However, the OL needs to improve if there's any hope of being a threat in the NFC though.
Pretty much my thoughts but I’ll caveat them by saying I never like to take too much good from a home loss. Yeah, we competed, but still a loss. With that said, you have to be moderately pleased with the D and seeing Barkley and Beckham do their thing is reassuring as well.
I just wish this team wasn’t always saddled with god awful at a position or two. Those guys fucking kill us year in year out. Can we just have kinda bad at RT instead of nightmarish bad?
Talk to me in a couple of weeks.
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the defender was holding his hand down while the ball was already released by Eli.
Looked like clear PI to me
That was the game right there
Yep! Couldn't believe no call
Total PI.
On the other hand, too many drops and Engram had a terrible game; needs to fight for some of those contested balls; O-line issues magnified by Jags superb front; Flowers is who we said he was; really missed Vernon; why was Clay signed, exactly and wasn't that an oppportunity to put Beckham back there? Why wasn't Jonathon Stewart in the game for the 2pt try?
This, suprisingly, at least to me, became a winnable game. For first game, new D, new O, they didn't suck
I think Giants beat Dallas next week.
Good post
Ultimately, this is a young football team that played like one. Crucial mistakes, left a lot of yards and crucial plays on the field because they weren't aware or lost focus.
Tons of teaching points, plenty to build on.
The defense looked good to me. And I’m reserving all judgments of the offense until they play a defense that ISN’T the best defense in the league and they’ve all played together for at least 3-4 weeks. Everyone agreed that if we can get to 4-4 at the bye we’ll actually be in prime position to make a run, so losing today by 5 points to a fantastic team I’m not about to hit the panic button.
Beckham was Beckham, played very well today and cant really ask him to do more.
Shepard and Engram. For a team that has such a razor thin margin of error, those 4 drops cannot occur. Those 4 balls should have been caught and all of them would have gone for 1st Downs. Pretty disappointing for these two players were counting on.
The offensive line. Flowers is fucking awful, I dont know how this dude was the 9th overall pick in 2015. He fucking blows. He got his lunch taken from him today which I guess shouldnt surprise anyone. The pick 6 was a direct result of the immediate pressure he gave up. There has to be a better alternative somewhere.
Our prized free agent acquisition, Nate Solder also had a rough game. He gave up a lot of pressure and had a killer holding penalty that stalled a drive around mid-field. Also a disappointing appearance but I think hell bounce back next week. The Jags have the best defense in the game and the best defensive line in the NFL.
I didnt really key on Hernandez, Halapio or Omaheh. They didnt really get push and it seemed they allowed Eli to step up when he had too.
I thought Eli had a good game, I believe hes still got some magic left in the tank. Not really worried about him. Ill chalk up missing OBJ in the end zone in the second half to not enough reps yet. Hell be fine.
I thought the defense played relatively well, but the Jags arent exactly an offensive team. Bortles is mediocre and they dont have anyone who will wow you at the skill positions.
Eli Apple had a hell of a game, hopefully he can keep it up. Blanket coverage all day. Thats a good sign.
Need to see more of a pass rush though. Very stout against the run but Vernon is our only edge rusher. Not hard to see how/why the Giants liked Bradley Chubb in the draft. Especially with Vernon likely getting cut next off season to save cap space, this is a real need.
This loss stings as I felt like this game was for the taking. But I think it will get better! Onto Dallas and they are looking like complete fucking ass right now.
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In comment 14067380 Britt in VA said:
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I’m really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.
. Agreed. They are not there yet, but looking better. That’s the important takeaway.
It’s week one with a new coach and front office. Did you expect we wouldn’t show up? Jax is not good offensively. Their D is dominant. We lost. No silver lining. If 13 and 26 show up we will compete.
im still optimistic
Defense played well enough to win this game. Unfortunately the OL loses it for us again.
For real. Was at the game. He looked like horseshit.
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Nate Solder was as bad as Flowers today. I know that's tough to hear, but he was awful.
For real. Was at the game. He looked like horseshit.
Played well enough for Brady last year. He’s much better then what we had there last year. The left side will not be as much of an issue. Eli wasn’t running for his life or getting hit from the blind side.
Halapio has to get more push in the middle. I saw him getting pushed right back on a few occasions.
The defense looked good although we'll see how they look against a real passing offense. Bortles stinks.
-defense looked very good
-Eli Apple, to his credit looked very good
- Barkley shows fairly well, most of his stats on one run.
-I like all of the defensive looks from Bettcher.
Cons
- game number 34 in a row under 30 points
-offense, for the most part still putrid, different names same result
- o line still pretty bad, although Eli got more time today then last year, not much but definitely more
- Eli continuing to show dimisnhed skills throwing the ball downfield. I’m not referring to the times when he’s under pressure, I’m talking about all the inconsistency on where the ball is delivered.
- coaching changed , still looks like mcadoo, terrible play calling down the stretch
I think we’re going to see a lot of these types of games. No one fears or respects the giants passing game, but we ll see one or two Barkley runs that makes everyone will go wild in a losing effort. These are the things that all of the overhaul fans feared, and they feared their ugly heads today.
Show me a line that can block with consistency. Show me a qb that doesn’t feel phantom pressure when he does get blocks and can throw the ball with accuracy and not miss wide open receivers. Show me receivers that catch the mall when it is delivered on time.
Outside of one Barkley run, I see more of the same from 2016 and 2017. Perhaps the problem runs deeper than mcadoo and he who shall remain nameless was part of a problem and not a passive victim?
For the BBI optimists who think the Giants can do no wrong, outside of one Barkley run, what should we be optimistic about, going on 3-15 dating back to Green Bay. Looks an awful lot like a 6-10 or 7-9 team that supposedly was win now and made all of their offseason decisions around one more run.
Show me something different.
Really good post. Hard to argue with your overall outlook
I think you need to rewatch the first quarter if you feel solder was as bad as flowers. Tripping flag, holding flag, and narrowly avoided being responsible for a safety.
Not really. They all have great QB play. There are very few good OL in The league
2018-Present: Offensive Line Coach, New York Giants
2017- There was a REASON he was unemployed
2016: Offensive Line Coach, Cleveland Browns
66 sacks= #1 allowed #19 av. yards rushing per game
2015: Offensive Line Coach, Indianapolis Colts
37 sacks = #15 allowed #29 av. yards rushing per game
2013-2014: Assistant Offensive Line Coach, Indianapolis Colts
(pass here, he was the assistant)
2012: Offensive Coordinator/Offensive Line Coach, San Diego Chargers
40 sacks =#12 #31 av. yards rushing per game
2007-2011: Offensive Line Coach, San Diego Chargers (2011 was his best season stat wise as an OL coach
28= #25 allowed #16 av. yards rushing per game
2018-Present: Offensive Line Coach, New York Giants
2017- There was a REASON he was unemployed
2016: Offensive Line Coach, Cleveland Browns
66 sacks= #1 allowed #19 av. yards rushing per game
2015: Offensive Line Coach, Indianapolis Colts
37 sacks = #15 allowed #29 av. yards rushing per game
2013-2014: Assistant Offensive Line Coach, Indianapolis Colts
(pass here, he was the assistant)
2012: Offensive Coordinator/Offensive Line Coach, San Diego Chargers
40 sacks =#12 #31 av. yards rushing per game
2007-2011: Offensive Line Coach, San Diego Chargers (2011 was his best season stat wise as an OL coach
28= #25 allowed #16 av. yards rushing per game
Well damn. I had no idea he was that bad. Go figure.
Ray Handley had nothing to do with this...