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New York Giants-Jacksonville Jaguars Post-Game Discussion

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/9/2018 3:52 pm
...
The D  
D_Giants : 9/9/2018 3:54 pm : link
Has given up only 13 points. The burden is on this offense to earn their paychecks.
Yup.  
Big Blue '56 : 9/9/2018 3:55 pm : link
Deflected TD pass was not on Eli. Flowers with the fluck up
is jax  
CMicks3110 : 9/9/2018 3:59 pm : link
defense 2000 baltimore level? in your opinions?
based on what i've seen today  
CMicks3110 : 9/9/2018 4:00 pm : link
they might be.
Busted first play of the half  
NoPeanutz : 9/9/2018 4:02 pm : link
had to burn the time-out that now is critical.
Thanks Flowers  
GiantsRage2007 : 9/9/2018 4:04 pm : link
Canít put this guy on field next week. Cannot.
Ereck Flowers is  
M.S. : 9/9/2018 4:05 pm : link
Who we thought he is

Need his replacement now
This team  
rocco8112 : 9/9/2018 4:06 pm : link
still sucks. Hopefully they can win one of the next two to keep it interesting for longer.

Brutal way to end. The better team won.
If the OL does not improve  
nyjuggernaut2 : 9/9/2018 4:07 pm : link
it is going to be a LONG season. Eli had no time all day...
Giants look a lot better than last year  
NYerInMA : 9/9/2018 4:07 pm : link
But Flowers has to go immediately.
same old flowers.  
NoPeanutz : 9/9/2018 4:07 pm : link
same old giants, cant score twenty?
Flowers is a huge Bust,  
prdave73 : 9/9/2018 4:07 pm : link
and Shurmur idk. I really hope this play calling gets better fast. Man do I miss Gilbride! Why can't the Giants ever get a good OC?!
Not sure why  
halfback20 : 9/9/2018 4:07 pm : link
we signed Clay.
Ereck Flowers destroyed us  
Anakim : 9/9/2018 4:07 pm : link
But Shurmur made a few really questionable calls. I have no idea what he was thinking burning a play with that Jonathan Stewart run.

And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?
Canít win if you cant  
oldutican : 9/9/2018 4:07 pm : link
block.
My cat's litterbox  
fivehead : 9/9/2018 4:07 pm : link
smells like Eric Flowers.
Staring right down at 0-3 potentially  
Sean : 9/9/2018 4:07 pm : link
Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TDís. Inexcusable.
RE: Yup.  
rocco8112 : 9/9/2018 4:07 pm : link
In comment 14067170 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Deflected TD pass was not on Eli. Flowers with the fluck up


Flowers was LVP, Engram looked like shit as well. Eli looked good. In fact he looked like he always has. We wasted two years with the last coach.
RE: Not sure why  
Anakim : 9/9/2018 4:08 pm : link
In comment 14067288 halfback20 said:
Quote:
we signed Clay.


To be the PR...he literally had one job
A competent RT and we win that game  
dpinzow : 9/9/2018 4:08 pm : link
Flowers is even worse there than he was at left tackle
Ugh.  
Rick5 : 9/9/2018 4:08 pm : link
Next week is big.
The Jags are a better team  
AcesUp : 9/9/2018 4:08 pm : link
It almost felt like we were playing uphill all game. They're just flat out better on the lines than we are and it's hard to win when you're losing that battle.

We'll definitely be competitive this year, I think this game showed that. However, the OL needs to improve if there's any hope of being a threat in the NFC though.
RE: Flowers is a huge Bust,  
bceagle05 : 9/9/2018 4:08 pm : link
In comment 14067287 prdave73 said:
Quote:
and Shurmur idk. I really hope this play calling gets better fast. Man do I miss Gilbride! Why can't the Giants ever get a good OC?!

They should hire Alex Cora!
RE: Staring right down at 0-3 potentially  
BleedBlue : 9/9/2018 4:08 pm : link
In comment 14067300 Sean said:
Quote:
Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TDís. Inexcusable.



we play a MUCH lesser team defensively next week....
Waited for this game all week.  
Waldo Jeffers : 9/9/2018 4:08 pm : link
Looked past Saturday, all focus on the game.

And now it's over. Weekend spent.

And we lost.

This, right now, is a bummer.

Mildly ecouraged  
jeff57 : 9/9/2018 4:09 pm : link
D was better than Iíd thought.
RE: Staring right down at 0-3 potentially  
rocco8112 : 9/9/2018 4:09 pm : link
In comment 14067300 Sean said:
Quote:
Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TDís. Inexcusable.


That bomb the timing was off that is a big time play and he should and can hit it. Maybe if all the ones actually played in pre season it would be sharper.

missing on Flowers  
wigs in nyc : 9/9/2018 4:09 pm : link
has truly set this franchise back
Same shit team  
XBRONX : 9/9/2018 4:09 pm : link
with exception of Barkley.
Extremely disappointed with Engram  
Saos1n : 9/9/2018 4:10 pm : link
Poor display...

Overall, Iím excited for this team this season... what a tough test week 1 against that defense with an completely reassembled offensive line..

Defense is flying all over... competing... having fun...

Not mad at all at the Loss, but Flowers and Clay got to go... and Engram needs to get laid or something
I saw a lot of positives  
superspynyg : 9/9/2018 4:10 pm : link
Today.

OBJ is a back
Great first game for Barkley vs a tough run def.
Eli looked confident.

We will win some games
Really surprised with Engram's hands  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 9/9/2018 4:10 pm : link
poor job catching the football today. Missed opportunities there.
...  
BleedBlue : 9/9/2018 4:10 pm : link
outside of flowers, i feel pretty good about the team...barkley looked solid. OBJ too,. eli looked very good. its really on the OL offensively especially floiwers
Enough with the Flowers shit guys..  
EricJ : 9/9/2018 4:10 pm : link
the entire OL needed to play better. I am glad we kept it close. The offense was out of sync all day and it was not all about Flowers. Barkley got stuffed the entire first half. We could not run behind anyone. Eli played well for the most part but we really needed one of those TD passes to connect with OBJ. Too many drops too and even some play calling mistakes.
Offense had momentum, why waste any  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 9/9/2018 4:10 pm : link
Time and let the clock tick off 20 plus seconds to the 2 min warning !!!
Flowers should be benched or cut  
jeff57 : 9/9/2018 4:11 pm : link
Put Wheeler or Greco in.
RE: Staring right down at 0-3 potentially  
montanagiant : 9/9/2018 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14067300 Sean said:
Quote:
Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TDís. Inexcusable.

He had to rush the first throw because of Flowers and on the second one OBJ was held as he made his second cut which disrupted his route, otherwise that's a TD
Shapard drop on the last series  
The Turk : 9/9/2018 4:11 pm : link
was the big play. right after 2 big passes to Beckham 1st down 40 yard line and he drops a crossing pass with plenty of room to run.
I thought  
Photoguy : 9/9/2018 4:11 pm : link
Bettcher did a great job of adjusting.
We all knew this was a multi year rebuild.  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 9/9/2018 4:11 pm : link
O Line is so glaring it's hard to take...but let's hope next year it will at least be average.
RE: RE: Staring right down at 0-3 potentially  
dpinzow : 9/9/2018 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14067317 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14067300 Sean said:


Quote:


Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TDís. Inexcusable.




we play a MUCH lesser team defensively next week....


Dallas isn't nearly as good at the back end as Jax but they have an excellent pass rush so if Flowers and company can't protect Eli he won't be able to exploit their secondary
RE: Ereck Flowers destroyed us  
Matt M. : 9/9/2018 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14067293 Anakim said:
Quote:
But Shurmur made a few really questionable calls. I have no idea what he was thinking burning a play with that Jonathan Stewart run.

And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?
Ther is absolutely no reason for Stewart to have even been on the field. He scares nobody in the running game, is less of a threat in the passing game, Barkley was fresh as it was the start of a drive.
RE: Same shit team  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/9/2018 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14067334 XBRONX said:
Quote:
with exception of Barkley.


Not really. Pass rush was far better than anticipated.
You can find positives here but I have to say  
j_rud : 9/9/2018 4:12 pm : link
Waiting the entire offseason only to see putrid OL play and STs contribute to yet another loss just fucking burns me up right now.

Ereck Fucking Flowers...somewhere Jerry Reese is giggling
Flowers  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 9/9/2018 4:12 pm : link
that's an all-time bad performance.
RE: Really surprised with Engram's hands  
RottenApple : 9/9/2018 4:12 pm : link
In comment 14067345 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
poor job catching the football today. Missed opportunities there.


Surprised? Did you not watch him drop passes last year?
Coughlin used Ross as OR  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/9/2018 4:12 pm : link
0 chance of a big return, but sure handed. Frigging Shurmur.
RE: Really surprised with Engram's hands  
rocco8112 : 9/9/2018 4:12 pm : link
In comment 14067345 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
poor job catching the football today. Missed opportunities there.


Looks soft too, blocking and goes down like tissue paper, no power for YAC.
that last pass to Shepard  
Rory : 9/9/2018 4:12 pm : link
the defender was holding his hand down while the ball was already released by Eli.

Looked like clear PI to me

That was the game right there
RE: We all knew this was a multi year rebuild.  
RDJR : 9/9/2018 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14067360 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
O Line is so glaring it's hard to take...but let's hope next year it will at least be average.


Itís the NFL. Weíve been rebuilding for 6 seasons. Our QB is in his 15th season. Rebuild?
RE: RE: Ereck Flowers destroyed us  
Anakim : 9/9/2018 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14067365 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 14067293 Anakim said:


Quote:


But Shurmur made a few really questionable calls. I have no idea what he was thinking burning a play with that Jonathan Stewart run.

And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?

Ther is absolutely no reason for Stewart to have even been on the field. He scares nobody in the running game, is less of a threat in the passing game, Barkley was fresh as it was the start of a drive.


That, but also running with two minutes left and you're down by 5 and you're not in the redzone. It was like Shurmur was eating time.

Very weird. Very weird playcall.
Other than Flowers.....  
Britt in VA : 9/9/2018 4:13 pm : link
Iím really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.
RE: Waited for this game all week.  
81_Great_Dane : 9/9/2018 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14067320 Waldo Jeffers said:
Quote:
Looked past Saturday, all focus on the game.

And now it's over. Weekend spent.

And we lost.

This, right now, is a bummer.
Wow, I this went way for the Giants than I expected, in some ways. The D got their act together after a wobbly start. The O was disappointing but give the Jags credit, their defense is very, very good.
RE: Shapard drop on the last series  
Matt M. : 9/9/2018 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14067356 The Turk said:
Quote:
was the big play. right after 2 big passes to Beckham 1st down 40 yard line and he drops a crossing pass with plenty of room to run.
Yes it was. But, there also should have been PI on the 4th down play. The defender never turned for the ball and grabbed Shepard's arm.
RE: Flowers  
Anakim : 9/9/2018 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14067370 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
that's an all-time bad performance.


It does remind me of Ian Allen
As  
AcidTest : 9/9/2018 4:14 pm : link
an initial matter, I am asking the moderators to remove the "F" threads. Thank you.

We did some good things today. The D gave up 13 points, and forced Jacksonville to punt every time it had the ball in the second half. Apple was really good. So was Carter, Jenkins, and Collins. The run D was stout, although Fournette ran well when he was in the game.

Barkley showed why he was the #2 pick in the draft, and we got some good plays from OBJ, SS, and Engram. Eli distributed the ball well, although he missed OBJ for a TD.

Rosas was excellent, and Dixon punted well.

The problem is that the lines were dominated, but we'll likely not see a better OL or DL all year. I also think we should have given Flowers more help.

Tough loss, but I'm encouraged. Don't panic.
some strange calls by Shurmur  
bluepepper : 9/9/2018 4:14 pm : link
that 4th down especially. OBJ was giving that secondary fits all day and we target Shep on the outside and have OBJ running a 2 yard route I guess as a decoy.

And Barkley on the 2-pointer right after a 68 yard run. Don't think so.
Again that drive  
Rflairr : 9/9/2018 4:15 pm : link
After the Barkley TD was a back breaker. They beat themselves. Going with Stewart that drive after the Defense got them the ball right back was moronic. Had all the momentum, and just foolishly put Stewart in there with idiotic play calling
Eli looked good but not great.  
CT Charlie : 9/9/2018 4:15 pm : link
Give him 1 more second, though, and we should be able to move the ball. Wishful thinking.
Turnovers: AARRRRGH!  
looie : 9/9/2018 4:15 pm : link
As always, they're killers, especially in a close game. O was about with I expected vs. this defense, our D was better than I expected. Don't throw in the towel just yet; they lost by 5 pts. to a better team.
RE: RE: Really surprised with Engram's hands  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/9/2018 4:15 pm : link
In comment 14067374 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
In comment 14067345 Bold Ruler said:


Quote:


poor job catching the football today. Missed opportunities there.



Looks soft too, blocking and goes down like tissue paper, no power for YAC.



Blocking one of the biggest and best defensive ends in the sport, sure.
And WTF with the TO to open the half?  
Matt M. : 9/9/2018 4:15 pm : link
If the helmet communications aren't working notify the ref or just call a play. Why would the communications even be needed? Don't they go onto the field with the play, already called, including the potential options/audibles?
Lost a winnnable game  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 9/9/2018 4:15 pm : link
To a good team. The online has to play better. Not every week will be as much a challenge as this week. D was pretty damn stout in second half.

Dissapointing but a lot to build on.
There were some positives  
dpinzow : 9/9/2018 4:15 pm : link
--The defense overall was good, only allowed 13 points
--Odell is pretty much himself again
--Saquon will get his
--Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill made plays
They just stood toe to toe with one of the best dís  
eli4life : 9/9/2018 4:15 pm : link
In the league. Sucks we came up short and it ended like that but the future is definitely looking better. Nobody expected to be contenders this year so personally Iím going to see the young guys develop
Gotta  
BigBlueinDE : 9/9/2018 4:16 pm : link
get a little more beef on the OL and they need to get better production out of Engram and Latimer. Overall, they're a year away but on the right path.
RE: Staring right down at 0-3 potentially  
bw in dc : 9/9/2018 4:16 pm : link
In comment 14067300 Sean said:
Quote:
Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TDís. Inexcusable.


So true. And that shouldn't get lost in the sauce of this post-game analysis...
3 Head Coaches, 2 GMs, multiple position coaches  
SHO'NUFF : 9/9/2018 4:16 pm : link
and we still can't shore up the OL over the last 4-5 years
The OL  
AcesUp : 9/9/2018 4:17 pm : link
You should not expect a "good" unit this year, but I would look at this game through the right context...the Jags DL is extremely talented. I'm hoping they can improve as the year goes on and the quality of the opponent normalizes.
Not a bad game against a very good team.  
nicky43 : 9/9/2018 4:17 pm : link
Jacksonville is very good on both Offense and defense. Our Defense played very good. Our offense could have played better but they are still learning how to gel together.

Flowers needs to be upgraded as well as the RG. Eli still has no time back there but we have good reason to be excited for what this team can do.

Hopefully Gettleman can find some upgrades for the oline.
Flowers is terrible  
WillVAB : 9/9/2018 4:18 pm : link
You could replace him w a guy off the street and get the same result.
RE: There were some positives  
bw in dc : 9/9/2018 4:18 pm : link
In comment 14067405 dpinzow said:
Quote:
--The defense overall was good, only allowed 13 points
--Odell is pretty much himself again
--Saquon will get his
--Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill made plays


I would caution the defense point because Jax is really a subpar offense, especially when Fournette went out...
Shurmur should have put Jonathan "goal line" Stewart  
CT Charlie : 9/9/2018 4:18 pm : link
in for the 2-point conversion, right after Saquon's 70-yard run, instead of on the next possession.
RE: They just stood toe to toe with one of the best dís  
dpinzow : 9/9/2018 4:18 pm : link
In comment 14067406 eli4life said:
Quote:
In the league. Sucks we came up short and it ended like that but the future is definitely looking better. Nobody expected to be contenders this year so personally Iím going to see the young guys develop


This is good perspective. In fact I think the team learned a lot about what it will take on the top level and naturally they would have to go through growing pains like this
Might be misleading game  
oldutican : 9/9/2018 4:18 pm : link
I suspect Jags made our offense look worse than it will be and the defense seem better.
yeah the defense was good  
bluepepper : 9/9/2018 4:18 pm : link
but that Jax offense is nothing even with Fournette. Not a good o-line themselves and Bortles is terrible. And the WR scare nobody.
RE: some strange calls by Shurmur  
Matt M. : 9/9/2018 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14067394 bluepepper said:
Quote:
that 4th down especially. OBJ was giving that secondary fits all day and we target Shep on the outside and have OBJ running a 2 yard route I guess as a decoy.

And Barkley on the 2-pointer right after a 68 yard run. Don't think so.
If anything, the 2 point conversion is where you put Stewart in.

I would have flipped OBJ and Shepard on that 4th down. Why would you have OBJ run a pick for Shepard when he couldn't be covered all day and Shepard was running those underneath routes all day. He wasn't scaring them going outside at that point. That said, it still should have been PI.
RE: Other than Flowers.....  
j_rud : 9/9/2018 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14067380 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Iím really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.


I'll feel encouraged tomorrow, right now it's hard to see past sloppy play leading to a loss in a game they could have, arguably should have, won. Eli missed Beckham twice in the endzone, Flowers still plays like he's fucking disabled, and a muffed punt to clinch it? Like I said, I'll be encouraged tomorrow.
Burning that time out...  
trueblueinpw : 9/9/2018 4:20 pm : link
Wow, I mean, yeah, you canít open the 2nd half without a fuckin play but just take the 5 delay of game and keep the TO. Time out is too valuable to burn there.

Eliís overthrows and INT... oy vey.

OBJ is uncoverable. Heís fucking amazing.

The defense didnít fold.

Apple and the Jackrabbit had a good day.

Is Collins still a plus player?
We acquitted ourselves well today. Got a break when  
Jim in Hoboken : 9/9/2018 4:20 pm : link
Fournette left.

Eli was only okay, Engram didnít help.

Playcalling was marginally better, thatís not saying much though.
RE: RE: They just stood toe to toe with one of the best dís  
PatersonPlank : 9/9/2018 4:20 pm : link
In comment 14067426 dpinzow said:
Quote:
In comment 14067406 eli4life said:


Quote:


In the league. Sucks we came up short and it ended like that but the future is definitely looking better. Nobody expected to be contenders this year so personally Iím going to see the young guys develop



This is good perspective. In fact I think the team learned a lot about what it will take on the top level and naturally they would have to go through growing pains like this


+1. Although losing sucks, tomorrow I will be encouraged
Question on defensive holding  
Matt M. : 9/9/2018 4:20 pm : link
There was a flag picked up against Jax for defensive holding with the explanation that the ball was already thrown. Why is that not still holding? And, if not holding, isn't it PI?
Wet ball and rain certainly was a factor - drops, et.  
GiantsUA : 9/9/2018 4:20 pm : link
Giants competed against a quality opponent - no pick 6 and the Giants may have won.

Unfortunateky, they're stuck with Flowers  
micky : 9/9/2018 4:20 pm : link
Barring injury til next year

Get used to it
The thing that bothers me the most about this game,  
prdave73 : 9/9/2018 4:21 pm : link
was it was very winnable. The offense which we thought would be the bright side did not come through?! The defense did their part surprisingly, and it was up to the offense to win this game! Did not like what I saw from Shurmur, reminded me to much of Mcadoo's offense smh. I really hope the offense improves because they have to many weapon not to be successful..
RE: some strange calls by Shurmur  
Anakim : 9/9/2018 4:21 pm : link
In comment 14067394 bluepepper said:
Quote:


And Barkley on the 2-pointer right after a 68 yard run. Don't think so.



Or having Engram block Calais Campbell...I mean what exactly did Shurmur expect would happen when a subpar blocking oversized WR went up against one of the best defensive players in the NFL?
RE: Shurmur should have put Jonathan  
Rflairr : 9/9/2018 4:21 pm : link
In comment 14067425 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
in for the 2-point conversion, right after Saquon's 70-yard run, instead of on the next possession.


How about playaction to Engram on that 2 point conversion. You know damn well you arenít going to punch that in with a run against that DL
Eh, I dunno  
Chris684 : 9/9/2018 4:21 pm : link
I am usually always optimistic....but this offensive line.

I was hopeful that Gettleman was able to upgrade to an average unit but I didnít see that today.

Constantly in 3rd and forever. No consistency in the run game.

Disappointing games from Engram and Shepard.
D played well, but Jags were without Fournette for a half  
jcn56 : 9/9/2018 4:21 pm : link
and they gave up a TD when he went out, which was rough.

Eli has to do better with the pick 6's; I get that Flowers was to blame for the pressure, but you can't panic and make an errant throw like that. Some great passes today, some off the mark, but overall a good day if not for the INT.

The secondary had a good day today, great work by Jenkins and Apple.

Not sure why Stewart was on the field late in the game, and some of those clock management moves at the end were just bizarre.

Hopefully, the team gets better from here.
Also, if they didn't allow that 1 TD right before the half  
Matt M. : 9/9/2018 4:21 pm : link
it may have been a different outcome. That TD was too easy.

That said, there were a number of positives to take from this game.
I get the Flowers stuff  
bluepepper : 9/9/2018 4:22 pm : link
today he was truly awful unlike sometimes in the past when he's borne a bit too much of the brunt. But Solder and Hernandez struggled as well. Doesn't bode well even if Wheeler or someone miraculously steps in and up at RT.
RE: Unfortunateky, they're stuck with Flowers  
Rflairr : 9/9/2018 4:22 pm : link
In comment 14067448 micky said:
Quote:
Barring injury til next year

Get used to it


Put Wheeler in there. Try to send him a message
RE: RE: Shurmur should have put Jonathan  
rocco8112 : 9/9/2018 4:22 pm : link
In comment 14067451 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 14067425 CT Charlie said:


Quote:


in for the 2-point conversion, right after Saquon's 70-yard run, instead of on the next possession.



How about playaction to Engram on that 2 point conversion. You know damn well you arenít going to punch that in with a run against that DL


Likely he would have dropped it.
RE: RE: Ereck Flowers destroyed us  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/9/2018 4:22 pm : link
In comment 14067365 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 14067293 Anakim said:


Quote:


But Shurmur made a few really questionable calls. I have no idea what he was thinking burning a play with that Jonathan Stewart run.

And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?

Ther is absolutely no reason for Stewart to have even been on the field. He scares nobody in the running game, is less of a threat in the passing game, Barkley was fresh as it was the start of a drive.

I hope this f*cking loss makes Shumur and DG realize you can't waste a play on a f*cking mascot.
RE: Other than Flowers.....  
Essex : 9/9/2018 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14067380 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Iím really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.

Iím not encouraged at all. Basically, we were a one man offense of Odel drawing penalties and receiving the lion share of targets. When we ventured out to Engram and Shepard they were disappponting and Barkleyís sick TD run was great and should not be discounted, but he couldnít get anything sustained. A home run hitter rb is a weapon but it is so much less valuable then a guy who can consistently move the chains with 5 and 6 yard carries.

Our defense was shaky in the first half, it let up a lot of yards including that long drive for a TD when Fournette went out. They were outstanding in the second half.

The Jags were without Fournette for more than 2 quarters and we didnít win the game at home despite them having 0 second half offensive points. A missed opportunity and I still think this is a 5-8 win range team.
RE: RE: Unfortunateky, they're stuck with Flowers  
micky : 9/9/2018 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14067462 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 14067448 micky said:


Quote:


Barring injury til next year

Get used to it



Put Wheeler in there. Try to send him a message


Wheeler isnt any better
RE: Yup.  
ColHowPepper : 9/9/2018 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14067170 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Deflected TD pass was not on Eli. Flowers with the fluck up
It was on Flowers for sure, but a 14 year veteran QB has no business throwing it low and blind into the line on what had become a busted play. Game changing, terrible result, triggered by Flowers, but Eli should have buried it where no one could get it.
RE: that last pass to Shepard  
Blue21 : 9/9/2018 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14067375 Rory said:
Quote:
the defender was holding his hand down while the ball was already released by Eli.

Looked like clear PI to me

That was the game right there


Yep! Couldn't believe no call
I think everyone is discounting how much effect the rain had  
montanagiant : 9/9/2018 4:24 pm : link
Without a good running game bad weather is going to hinder our offense vertically
Disappointed but still better play than what we saw last year  
gmen4ever : 9/9/2018 4:24 pm : link
Nonetheless there were opportunities that slipped through our fingers.
RE: Unfortunateky, they're stuck with Flowers  
dpinzow : 9/9/2018 4:25 pm : link
In comment 14067448 micky said:
Quote:
Barring injury til next year

Get used to it


No they're not, they could always play Wheeler or sign someone else
My Takeaways  
lax counsel : 9/9/2018 4:25 pm : link
Pros
-defense looked very good
-Eli Apple, to his credit looked very good
- Barkley shows fairly well, most of his stats on one run.
-I like all of the defensive looks from Bettcher.

Cons
- game number 34 in a row under 30 points
-offense, for the most part still putrid, different names same result
- o line still pretty bad, although Eli got more time today then last year, not much but definitely more
- Eli continuing to show dimisnhed skills throwing the ball downfield. Iím not referring to the times when heís under pressure, Iím talking about all the inconsistency on where the ball is delivered.
- coaching changed , still looks like mcadoo, terrible play calling down the stretch

I think weíre going to see a lot of these types of games. No one fears or respects the giants passing game, but we ll see one or two Barkley runs that makes everyone will go wild in a losing effort. These are the things that all of the overhaul fans feared, and they feared their ugly heads today.

Show me a line that can block with consistency. Show me a qb that doesnít feel phantom pressure when he does get blocks and can throw the ball with accuracy and not miss wide open receivers. Show me receivers that catch the mall when it is delivered on time.

Outside of one Barkley run, I see more of the same from 2016 and 2017. Perhaps the problem runs deeper than mcadoo and he who shall remain nameless was part of a problem and not a passive victim?

For the BBI optimists who think the Giants can do no wrong, outside of one Barkley run, what should we be optimistic about, going on 3-15 dating back to Green Bay. Looks an awful lot like a 6-10 or 7-9 team that supposedly was win now and made all of their offseason decisions around one more run.

Show me something different.
RE: RE: Yup.  
montanagiant : 9/9/2018 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14067474 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
In comment 14067170 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:


Deflected TD pass was not on Eli. Flowers with the fluck up

It was on Flowers for sure, but a 14 year veteran QB has no business throwing it low and blind into the line on what had become a busted play. Game changing, terrible result, triggered by Flowers, but Eli should have buried it where no one could get it.

What?
How to come up with he was throwing it blindly and how was he supposed to know it would get tipped?

Some of you guys crack me the hell up with these mental gymnastics to place blame on Eli
Hard to win a game with a ST turnover and allowing a defensive TD.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/9/2018 4:26 pm : link
While it's unfair to boil a game down to one thing, my main headline would be "Offensive Line Is Non-Competitive on Too Many Plays for Giants to Take Winnable Game". Flowers was horrendous. He personally killed 2 or 3 drives on his own and his man caused the initial pressure on the tipped INT for TD. I never expected Solder to be Jonathan Ogden, but there were too many plays in which he was non-competitive too. Halapio and Hernandez got shoved into the backfield and Omameh flat out whiffed at least once that I saw.

Eli was solid, but he definitely missed Odell on what would've been a game-tying TD. His accuracy on some of the short passes was also problematic and limited the YAC potential.

Odell was Odell, which is GREAT. Saquon had 5 plays in which you see Hall of Fame ability, not just really good back stuff. Unfortunately, the o-line and TE blocking was no help at times.

The defense played as well as could be expected considering the general lack of speed and talent in some areas. Kudos to Eli Apple for a wonderful game.
RE: RE: Unfortunateky, they're stuck with Flowers  
j_rud : 9/9/2018 4:26 pm : link
In comment 14067462 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 14067448 micky said:


Quote:


Barring injury til next year

Get used to it



Put Wheeler in there. Try to send him a message
Its year 4 after a position change. It's past sending a message. The guy just can't play. It's not even his fault, really. He just doesn't have it and unfortunately there's no viable alternative at this point.
RE: 3 Head Coaches, 2 GMs, multiple position coaches  
BigBlueinDE : 9/9/2018 4:27 pm : link
In comment 14067413 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
and we still can't shore up the OL over the last 4-5 years



They tried to shore up the OL, but the investments (Pugh, Flowers) didn't pan out.
RE: Again that drive  
RobCarpenter : 9/9/2018 4:27 pm : link
In comment 14067395 Rflairr said:
Quote:
After the Barkley TD was a back breaker. They beat themselves. Going with Stewart that drive after the Defense got them the ball right back was moronic. Had all the momentum, and just foolishly put Stewart in there with idiotic play calling


Stewart isnít the one who dropped the ball on a crossing route. And he had a decent run for positive yardage.

It sucks to lose but the team had a chance to win at the end. Against a team that had a 10 pt 4th quarter lead on the Pats in the AFC championship game, thatís no small accomplishment.

RE: I think everyone is discounting how much effect the rain had  
AcesUp : 9/9/2018 4:27 pm : link
In comment 14067478 montanagiant said:
Quote:
Without a good running game bad weather is going to hinder our offense vertically


Both teams played in rain. Our pass D is vulnerable, it helped us on defense as well.
I'm not understanding all these posts about "positives"  
LG in NYC : 9/9/2018 4:27 pm : link
other than Saquon I am actually more discouraged after this game.

Sloppy, uninspiring play calling, same ol Eli, too many drops, horrific O Line play... oh yeah, and in a big spot or ST blew it.

I was hoping for more - didn't see it.

At least it's only week 1
RE: RE: RE: Ereck Flowers destroyed us  
D_Giants : 9/9/2018 4:27 pm : link
In comment 14067379 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14067365 Matt M. said:


Quote:


In comment 14067293 Anakim said:


Quote:


But Shurmur made a few really questionable calls. I have no idea what he was thinking burning a play with that Jonathan Stewart run.

And why didn't we put OBJ back for the punt?

Ther is absolutely no reason for Stewart to have even been on the field. He scares nobody in the running game, is less of a threat in the passing game, Barkley was fresh as it was the start of a drive.



That, but also running with two minutes left and you're down by 5 and you're not in the redzone. It was like Shurmur was eating time.

Well, Shurmur was trying to establish the run for a balanced attack. He reminds me of McAdoo. The OL and the O playcalling was unimpressive. Our new offensive-genius coach is now 10-24 as a HC. The Oís net points: 9.

Very weird. Very weird playcall.
RE: Shurmur should have put Jonathan  
BigBlueinDE : 9/9/2018 4:28 pm : link
In comment 14067425 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
in for the 2-point conversion, right after Saquon's 70-yard run, instead of on the next possession.


That's a fair point. Good observation.
Engram cost us big time  
Blueforever : 9/9/2018 4:29 pm : link
and why does Beckham pussey foot OOB so much. Also Latimore 1 holding call and no receptions
RE: They just stood toe to toe with one of the best dís  
mrvax : 9/9/2018 4:29 pm : link
In comment 14067406 eli4life said:
Quote:
In the league. Sucks we came up short and it ended like that but the future is definitely looking better. Nobody expected to be contenders this year so personally Iím going to see the young guys develop


Hard to accept another loss. They did well against a top NFL team though. Even with the Oline issues, they didn't get blown out.
...  
christian : 9/9/2018 4:29 pm : link
Nate Solder was as bad as Flowers today. I know that's tough to hear, but he was awful.
I'm not so down.  
section125 : 9/9/2018 4:30 pm : link
They did better than I thought.

Before yo get so down on Flowers, I saw at least 4 holding penalties on the Jags were worse than that one they called in the 1st quarter. Neither Solder or Flowers did very well.
About what I expected, but they played better than the score showed.

Evan Engram better learn to catch the ball.

Eli had good numbers but missed Odell twice for TDs (1st half one was tough but should have been made.) On the 4th and 6 he absolutely missed Shepard who had a full step on his man. That INT TD may be blamed on pressure, but Eli stepped up and managed to get a tipped pass when he had Shepard or Engram open..a pro QB has to make that play. I do like the roll outs and Eli looked good doing it.

Barkley had two plays where he should have made two 1st downs. He should not have tried to dive over the pile and on a reception he needed to drive through the defender.
But we have a running back. Kid can play.


RE: Disappointed but still better play than what we saw last year  
lax counsel : 9/9/2018 4:30 pm : link
In comment 14067479 gmen4ever said:
Quote:
Nonetheless there were opportunities that slipped through our fingers.


Outside of one Barkley run, what looked better on offense?
RE: RE: Other than Flowers.....  
bluepepper : 9/9/2018 4:31 pm : link
In comment 14067469 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 14067380 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Iím really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.


Iím not encouraged at all. Basically, we were a one man offense of Odel drawing penalties and receiving the lion share of targets. When we ventured out to Engram and Shepard they were disappponting and Barkleyís sick TD run was great and should not be discounted, but he couldnít get anything sustained. A home run hitter rb is a weapon but it is so much less valuable then a guy who can consistently move the chains with 5 and 6 yard carries.

My fear with Barkley was that would be that kind of guy but honestly I'm encouraged because he did run very tough a few times today. Not much to show for it but I think it will translate well against teams with lesser front sevens.
RE: My Takeaways  
Matt M. : 9/9/2018 4:32 pm : link
In comment 14067488 lax counsel said:
Quote:
Pros
-defense looked very good
-Eli Apple, to his credit looked very good
- Barkley shows fairly well, most of his stats on one run.
-I like all of the defensive looks from Bettcher.

Cons
- game number 34 in a row under 30 points
-offense, for the most part still putrid, different names same result
- o line still pretty bad, although Eli got more time today then last year, not much but definitely more
- Eli continuing to show dimisnhed skills throwing the ball downfield. Iím not referring to the times when heís under pressure, Iím talking about all the inconsistency on where the ball is delivered.
- coaching changed , still looks like mcadoo, terrible play calling down the stretch

I think weíre going to see a lot of these types of games. No one fears or respects the giants passing game, but we ll see one or two Barkley runs that makes everyone will go wild in a losing effort. These are the things that all of the overhaul fans feared, and they feared their ugly heads today.

Show me a line that can block with consistency. Show me a qb that doesnít feel phantom pressure when he does get blocks and can throw the ball with accuracy and not miss wide open receivers. Show me receivers that catch the mall when it is delivered on time.

Outside of one Barkley run, I see more of the same from 2016 and 2017. Perhaps the problem runs deeper than mcadoo and he who shall remain nameless was part of a problem and not a passive victim?

For the BBI optimists who think the Giants can do no wrong, outside of one Barkley run, what should we be optimistic about, going on 3-15 dating back to Green Bay. Looks an awful lot like a 6-10 or 7-9 team that supposedly was win now and made all of their offseason decisions around one more run.

Show me something different.
The results were similar, but the playcaling was very different. For one, we didn't run everyone short of the sticks every 3rd down. For anothere, we didn't run everyone to the same zone. There were nice layers/route trees on plays, there were different formations. What I didn't like was too much in the shotgun.
RE: Other than Flowers.....  
UberAlias : 9/9/2018 4:33 pm : link
In comment 14067380 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Iím really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.
. Agreed. They are not there yet, but looking better. Thatís the important takeaway.
I thought there  
Rick5 : 9/9/2018 4:33 pm : link
were some positives, but a loss is a loss. If they don't beat Dallas now, they will be in a must win situation (for all practical purposes) in week 3.
I don't mind Beckham running out of bounds when nothing is there  
since1925 : 9/9/2018 4:33 pm : link
I hate him running backwards and turning six yard gains into three yard gains when nothing is there.
RE: Engram cost us big time  
bluepepper : 9/9/2018 4:34 pm : link
In comment 14067515 Blueforever said:
Quote:
and why does Beckham pussey foot OOB so much. Also Latimore 1 holding call and no receptions

Odell goes out of bounds when there is nothing there. He's not going to bowl guys over. He's playing smart to stay healthy. I'm fine with it.
RE: We all knew this was a multi year rebuild.  
micky : 9/9/2018 4:34 pm : link
In comment 14067360 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
O Line is so glaring it's hard to take...but let's hope next year it will at least be average.


not according to Giants and not drafting for future...qb

so eli leaves they'll be stuck in that journeymen qb carousal which will still hold them back
Campbell  
AcidTest : 9/9/2018 4:34 pm : link
showed us why he is having a HOF career.
RE: RE: Engram cost us big time  
dpinzow : 9/9/2018 4:35 pm : link
In comment 14067536 bluepepper said:
Quote:
In comment 14067515 Blueforever said:


Quote:


and why does Beckham pussey foot OOB so much. Also Latimore 1 holding call and no receptions


Odell goes out of bounds when there is nothing there. He's not going to bowl guys over. He's playing smart to stay healthy. I'm fine with it.


Exactly. Odell had a career-threatening injury so anything he does to stay on the field and not deal with needless injury is fine by me, at least in the regular season
RE: RE: My Takeaways  
lax counsel : 9/9/2018 4:35 pm : link
In comment 14067527 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 14067488 lax counsel said:


Quote:


Pros
-defense looked very good
-Eli Apple, to his credit looked very good
- Barkley shows fairly well, most of his stats on one run.
-I like all of the defensive looks from Bettcher.

Cons
- game number 34 in a row under 30 points
-offense, for the most part still putrid, different names same result
- o line still pretty bad, although Eli got more time today then last year, not much but definitely more
- Eli continuing to show dimisnhed skills throwing the ball downfield. Iím not referring to the times when heís under pressure, Iím talking about all the inconsistency on where the ball is delivered.
- coaching changed , still looks like mcadoo, terrible play calling down the stretch

I think weíre going to see a lot of these types of games. No one fears or respects the giants passing game, but we ll see one or two Barkley runs that makes everyone will go wild in a losing effort. These are the things that all of the overhaul fans feared, and they feared their ugly heads today.

Show me a line that can block with consistency. Show me a qb that doesnít feel phantom pressure when he does get blocks and can throw the ball with accuracy and not miss wide open receivers. Show me receivers that catch the mall when it is delivered on time.

Outside of one Barkley run, I see more of the same from 2016 and 2017. Perhaps the problem runs deeper than mcadoo and he who shall remain nameless was part of a problem and not a passive victim?

For the BBI optimists who think the Giants can do no wrong, outside of one Barkley run, what should we be optimistic about, going on 3-15 dating back to Green Bay. Looks an awful lot like a 6-10 or 7-9 team that supposedly was win now and made all of their offseason decisions around one more run.

Show me something different.

The results were similar, but the playcaling was very different. For one, we didn't run everyone short of the sticks every 3rd down. For anothere, we didn't run everyone to the same zone. There were nice layers/route trees on plays, there were different formations. What I didn't like was too much in the shotgun.


They scored 15 points. Show me something different. If the play calling was better, whatís the problem?
My guess is Eli wouldn't have led the team to a TD  
xman : 9/9/2018 4:36 pm : link
Where were the TD's today other then Barkley. More likely he would have thrown another pick.

Most OL lines are nothing to write home about. Its just that Qb's maneuver better. And the few golden opportunities you have to make a big play on a wide open receiver flying down field you need to make those plays.They are few and far between so to throw a poor pass is a game killer .

Accuracy and ball protection is a must for a QB
Been a long time  
joeinpa : 9/9/2018 4:36 pm : link
in feeling the afterglow of a big Giants victory. You know, the kind of win that makes the other games you watch more enjoyable, the talk radio in the background, more fun.

Been a long time. Going to be a long time unless the offensive line becomes at least adequate on certain passing downs and short yardage.
RE: My guess is Eli wouldn't have led the team to a TD  
map7711 : 9/9/2018 4:39 pm : link
In comment 14067547 xman said:
Quote:
Where were the TD's today other then Barkley. More likely he would have thrown another pick.

Most OL lines are nothing to write home about. Its just that Qb's maneuver better. And the few golden opportunities you have to make a big play on a wide open receiver flying down field you need to make those plays.They are few and far between so to throw a poor pass is a game killer .

Accuracy and ball protection is a must for a QB


Unreal. Lol.
RE: RE: Other than Flowers.....  
RDJR : 9/9/2018 4:39 pm : link
In comment 14067533 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 14067380 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Iím really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.

. Agreed. They are not there yet, but looking better. Thatís the important takeaway.


Itís week one with a new coach and front office. Did you expect we wouldnít show up? Jax is not good offensively. Their D is dominant. We lost. No silver lining. If 13 and 26 show up we will compete.
played like.....  
thrunthrublue : 9/9/2018 4:41 pm : link
cleveland light.....
RE: RE: 3 Head Coaches, 2 GMs, multiple position coaches  
SHO'NUFF : 9/9/2018 4:43 pm : link
In comment 14067501 BigBlueinDE said:
Quote:
In comment 14067413 SHO'NUFF said:


Quote:


and we still can't shore up the OL over the last 4-5 years




They tried to shore up the OL, but the investments (Pugh, Flowers) didn't pan out.


Trying and doing are two different things. Overreaching for short arms Pugh and Richberg and passing on Gurley for Flowers is inexcusable.
For me as damning as Flowers' physical failures are,  
ColHowPepper : 9/9/2018 4:43 pm : link
moreso is his fundamental lack of grasp of playing the position.

- on his second 15 yard penalty on the first possession (that some here called debatable, anything but), he was shaking his head, shrugging his shoulders, expressing (to my eyes) that he had not held, had not done anything to incur the penalty (Collinsworth on Thursday night gave an excellent tutorial on when and why Flowers was called on it when he was)

- his trip (almost as egregious as the Dallas OT that hooked Tuck's leg and crippled him for a good chunk of the season) was so blatant, he was so beat, he's like a man drowning in a storm-tossed sea who will do anything he can think of that will 'salvage' the situation

- the last possession, when he gave up two really bad pressures that forced Eli to hurry the passes, I believe it was not Calais C but a lighter DE (maybe a LB), who just bull rushed EF who had no clue how to anchor and slow the d lineman.

The fact that three well regarded OL coaches have come up empty with the guy seems to indicate that he has very little mental resources to learn the position, recognize what the DL is doing, improve technique, etc.
On D - some lapses in coverage......  
Simms11 : 9/9/2018 4:44 pm : link
Some guys completely wide open. Lack of a pass rush without blitzing is troublesome. Run D also had a few issues, but one long run by Bortles skewed the rushing totals for Jíville. Overall, I think the D played fairly well. Jíville is not a juggernaut on offense and so this is a good start, but has to get better.

On O - Oline hung in there against a really tough opponent, but Flowers is going to have to be replaced next year. Thereís no doubt about that. I have to ask why we didnít put Ellison over there more in critical situations?! Anyway, running game, other then 1 great run, was not good either....I think that too is attributable to poor run blocking. Passing O was not bad, but Eli missed a few TDs to OBJ. Oline did a decent job in Pass Pro most of the game, but Flowers gave up too much pressure in critical junctures of the game.

On ST - Rosas was good, Dixon punted well and coverage units were good. Came down to one poor PR at the end.
Same ole G offense  
D_Giants : 9/9/2018 4:44 pm : link
Two years ago, D won the 11 games. Last year, they got hurt and disillusioned, playing 45 of 60 minutes. Eli got 6 points (2 FGs) and gave 7, for net -1. D got 3 points (from INT) and despite givihg O great field position thereafter, O did nothing. Lots if lateral play calls, very little up the middle. Shurmur was outcoached. Too bad Mara didnt keep TC and Spags, and lose JR and McAdoo after 2015.

Eli is unathletic. He can barely move; he is immobile and is, of course, no running threat. His passes are inconsistent. His best days, despite the rhetoric, are 7 years behind him.

Why not put Wheeler in at RT? He could NOT have been worse than EF.
We can win that game...  
M.S. : 9/9/2018 4:45 pm : link

...with a legitimate right tackle.

Flowers will plague us whenever he goes up against talent.
Wheeler  
AcidTest : 9/9/2018 4:45 pm : link
is the only other viable option right now at RT. It is a given that the Giants want a new RT next year, but right now it's either Flowers or Wheeler.
RE: Wheeler  
M.S. : 9/9/2018 4:47 pm : link
In comment 14067587 AcidTest said:
Quote:
is the only other viable option right now at RT. It is a given that the Giants want a new RT next year, but right now it's either Flowers or Wheeler.

W.H.E.E.L.E.R.
Overall Not the Look Of a Playoff Team  
Jeffrey : 9/9/2018 4:49 pm : link
Play calling, on again, off again Eli, poor return teams, and an OL which looks no better than last year. Pugh, Richburg and Fluker are no worse than what they have added.
RE: Eh, I dunno  
Brick72 : 9/9/2018 4:49 pm : link
In comment 14067453 Chris684 said:
Quote:
I am usually always optimistic....but this offensive line.

I was hopeful that Gettleman was able to upgrade to an average unit but I didnít see that today.

Constantly in 3rd and forever. No consistency in the run game.

Disappointing games from Engram and Shepard.

Shepard?? Really? OK. You know sometimes people make you wonder what game they were watching. This is a classic example.
...  
christian : 9/9/2018 4:50 pm : link
The Giants offense looks about what I expected:

- Run blocking as bad or worse than the last few years
- Virtually nothing offensively outside of Beckham, Shepard and Barkley
- Manning the same good, but not game changing QB he's been for the last several years

The tackles will play better as the year progresses. Latimer and Ellison will get more targets and be good for a few hundred yards each. Manning will duplicate his 2016 season.

Should be good for a 6-7 win year and better play down the stretch.
RE: RE: Eh, I dunno  
BleedBlue : 9/9/2018 4:51 pm : link
In comment 14067599 Brick72 said:
Quote:
In comment 14067453 Chris684 said:


Quote:


I am usually always optimistic....but this offensive line.

I was hopeful that Gettleman was able to upgrade to an average unit but I didnít see that today.

Constantly in 3rd and forever. No consistency in the run game.

Disappointing games from Engram and Shepard.


Shepard?? Really? OK. You know sometimes people make you wonder what game they were watching. This is a classic example.



its hard to be consistent in run when youre playing the best front in the game. shit happensm we played well enough to win and just didnt it happens
I'm not trying to convince anyone that the Giants are the '88 Niners  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/9/2018 4:51 pm : link
offensively, but some of you guys aren't realizing that this is the best defensive line, best coverage LBs, and best cornerbacks the Giants will face all season... all on one team. And yet there were still opportunities for the offense to make plays.
It's  
AcidTest : 9/9/2018 4:52 pm : link
a two year rebuild. DG has done as much as he can in year one. We need another offseason.
this is more thana two year  
Shirk130 : 9/9/2018 4:55 pm : link
rebuild
Gallman expects to play next week. He said he was out for  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/9/2018 4:56 pm : link
"precautionary reasons". All I know is whatever amount of plays Jonathan Stewart was out there for was too damn many.
Will somebody explain the thinking behind picking Kaelin Clay  
D_Giants : 9/9/2018 4:57 pm : link
and dumping Hunter Sharp last week. Clay is terrible. I think the FO outsmarted themselves completely. It was even more brilliant than iverpaying a washed up J Stewart and trading the best center they had.

DG is showing why he needed a job and Shurmur is really McAdoo with a mask on.
If this is the best defense  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/9/2018 4:57 pm : link
we see all year, we'll be fine.

I'm totally hammered though.
Flowers pick was the albatross around our neck  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/9/2018 4:58 pm : link
Mel Kiper did a better job scouting than Reese and Ross.
RE: Same ole G offense  
Ed A. : 9/9/2018 4:59 pm : link
In comment 14067580 D_Giants said:
Quote:
Two years ago, D won the 11 games. Last year, they got hurt and disillusioned, playing 45 of 60 minutes. Eli got 6 points (2 FGs) and gave 7, for net -1. D got 3 points (from INT) and despite givihg O great field position thereafter, O did nothing. Lots if lateral play calls, very little up the middle. Shurmur was outcoached. Too bad Mara didnt keep TC and Spags, and lose JR and McAdoo after 2015.

Eli is unathletic. He can barely move; he is immobile and is, of course, no running threat. His passes are inconsistent. His best days, despite the rhetoric, are 7 years behind him.

Why not put Wheeler in at RT? He could NO























T have been worse than EF.


Oh no? Wheeler is not the answer. You obviously haven't been watching. As bad as Flowers is, Wheeler is worse.
eli manning has got to make that pass to shep  
GiantsFan84 : 9/9/2018 5:02 pm : link
at the end. underthrew that pass by 10 yards
One of the toughest teams  
Mark from Jersey : 9/9/2018 5:02 pm : link
we will play all year. Outside of our OT play a lot to be optimistic about. Shepard & Beckham are a great 1-2 punch, Barkley will only get better, the secondary looked good albeit against a weak QB/WR team. Kicker went 3 for 3 special teams did their job. Liked the playcalls on offense, defense adjusted as the game went on and forced a ton of punts in the second half.
RE: If this is the best defense  
D_Giants : 9/9/2018 5:03 pm : link
In comment 14067621 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
we see all year, we'll be fine.

I'm totally hammered though.


I am afraid that the Giants offense, Eli, and Shurmur are going to reveal the hidden abilities and talents of many defensive units this year. This game picked up where 2017 left off. One turnover TD, one TD scored. HC trying to run down game clock with 2 mins left and while needing a TD. Side tio side passing and up the gut running. Only one fooled? J Mara.
1st and 10 on the last offensive series ...  
Spider56 : 9/9/2018 5:05 pm : link
Eli hits Shepard in stride over the middle and he drops the ball ... it was over after that play.
RE: 1st and 10 on the last offensive series ...  
D_Giants : 9/9/2018 5:07 pm : link
In comment 14067655 Spider56 said:
Quote:
Eli hits Shepard in stride over the middle and he drops the ball ... it was over after that play.


True. But offense was unimpressive all game. But fir Barkleyís breakout run, the Offense does what it loves to do: kick FGs.
Flowers is just plain awful. Wheeler may not be good  
Jimmy Googs : 9/9/2018 5:09 pm : link
but we are just screwed continuing to play Flowers.

Some positives...

Apple will I think one if his better games. Made me eat my words for sure. Glad for him...and us.

OBJ and Barkley are all-world.

Eli with nice hot start.

Defense rose to occasion.

Some negatives...

Engram playing on drugs.

Eli had a couple TD chances that he missed yet again. And the pick 6 throw was unneeded although I know he is trying to make a play. But the $20M/year HOF smart play is to eat that one.

Flowers and Solder abused too many times.

Punt returner misplayed a few, but we werent scoring a TD with less than 1 minute anyway so....
A drop doesn't mean its over because every team has drops  
xman : 9/9/2018 5:11 pm : link
likewise over throws or under throws to wide open receivers doesn't mean its over.

Maybe on the 2 point conversion a more mobile QB would have more challenging to the opponent and given us more flexibility
No moral victories.  
TexasGmenFan : 9/9/2018 5:17 pm : link
Too many JAGs making up a large fraction of this roster, too many negative plays by players at parts of the depth chart that simply can't be occupied by JAGs at all.

Several questionable play-calls, dominated at the LOS on both sides (a 1 sack and little to no hurry afternoon), and poor accuracy by the QB at the most opportune times.

29 of 53 players on this roster were 2018 additions. It shows. Who cares if we lost by 5 or 11 or 21? 0-1 is 0-1 and quite frankly, with them losing their best player for 2+ quarters, this was our game to win.
Next time  
KWhite2250 : 9/9/2018 5:17 pm : link
Eli should kindly ask the dlineman to not tip his pass on a pass play. How dare he try to pass it on a pass play while stepping up away from the guy flying right by flowers
RE: Next time  
jcn56 : 9/9/2018 5:21 pm : link
In comment 14067689 KWhite2250 said:
Quote:
Eli should kindly ask the dlineman to not tip his pass on a pass play. How dare he try to pass it on a pass play while stepping up away from the guy flying right by flowers


That's a great excuse for him. Flowers sucks, without a doubt - but Eli has to know better than to force that ball. How many pick 6s has he thrown in his career?

We've seen it all too often from him.
RE: RE: Next time  
KWhite2250 : 9/9/2018 5:31 pm : link
In comment 14067704 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14067689 KWhite2250 said:


Quote:


Eli should kindly ask the dlineman to not tip his pass on a pass play. How dare he try to pass it on a pass play while stepping up away from the guy flying right by flowers



That's a great excuse for him. Flowers sucks, without a doubt - but Eli has to know better than to force that ball. How many pick 6s has he thrown in his career?

We've seen it all too often from him.


So just take the sack? And then he gets blamed for going down too easy. If the ball isnt tipped, maybe its not a pick 6? Guy made a play and tipped it. Shit happens.
I'm as tough on Eli as anyone but I don't blame him  
Blue21 : 9/9/2018 5:34 pm : link
for that pick. Oline was horrible as usual today.They were very inconsistent. Eli was under pressure a ton and they couldn't run block.
How is this even a debate  
lax counsel : 9/9/2018 5:34 pm : link
This is the same thing as 2016 and 2017, minus one Barkley run. 3-15 over the last 18 and and 34 straight games below 30 points. This is Cleveland Browns bad.

And posters on here are selling this as a multi year rebuild? Ownership and the Front office told us this is a win now team built around one more Eli run. They donít have 2-3 years to figure it out.

What I saw today was more of the same, a terrible offense with the same o line and qb who canít function with high performance even when heís given time. A 20m a year qb needs to be able to raise his game above some of these things.

Show us something different. I was told all offseason the giants made the right move passing on a qb, and were ready to go, show me something different.
RE: RE: Staring right down at 0-3 potentially  
clatterbuck : 9/9/2018 5:36 pm : link
In comment 14067355 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14067300 Sean said:


Quote:


Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TDís. Inexcusable.


He had to rush the first throw because of Flowers and on the second one OBJ was held as he made his second cut which disrupted his route, otherwise that's a TD


Agree.
RE: RE: RE: Next time  
jcn56 : 9/9/2018 5:39 pm : link
In comment 14067737 KWhite2250 said:
Quote:
In comment 14067704 jcn56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14067689 KWhite2250 said:


Quote:


Eli should kindly ask the dlineman to not tip his pass on a pass play. How dare he try to pass it on a pass play while stepping up away from the guy flying right by flowers



That's a great excuse for him. Flowers sucks, without a doubt - but Eli has to know better than to force that ball. How many pick 6s has he thrown in his career?

We've seen it all too often from him.



So just take the sack? And then he gets blamed for going down too easy. If the ball isnt tipped, maybe its not a pick 6? Guy made a play and tipped it. Shit happens.


Shit happens when it happens to you randomly.

Shit that's a result of your actions is just plain old shit that you brought on yourself.

A veteran QB with a shaky OL who has been playing in a tight game where his D has been blanking the offensive team should NOT be forcing that pass on his side of the field.

It's not too much to ask. That, and actually hitting guys in stride when they're open, but I'll give him a pass for the weather conditions today.
RE: RE: RE: Staring right down at 0-3 potentially  
chuckydee9 : 9/9/2018 5:40 pm : link
In comment 14067754 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
In comment 14067355 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 14067300 Sean said:


Quote:


Eli missed Beckham on 2 potential TDís. Inexcusable.


He had to rush the first throw because of Flowers and on the second one OBJ was held as he made his second cut which disrupted his route, otherwise that's a TD



Agree.


+1 this wasn't the performance I expect from a QB making 20+ million..
Leonard Cohen  
plato : 9/9/2018 5:41 pm : link
ďI saw the future, it was murderĒ
Guys...please look on the bright side of things here  
jamison884 : 9/9/2018 5:47 pm : link
Jacksonville has arguably the best defense in the league and we only lost by 5 points, but there were 5 to 10 unforced correctable errors on our part throughout the game which could have resulted in a win rather than a loss. Also, this was against a Jacksonville team that was 10-6 with 2 playoff wins last year.

Any skill position player with a season-ending leg injury has the potential to simply never fully recover and bremain the same player, but we lucked out and Beckham still has it.

I feel Barkley can break a run like that any given week, and once he gets some more NFL experience and involved in the passing game more, we'll see better results and consistency from him. Remember, in general, preseason simply doesn't prepare NFL teams for week 1 adequately and the defense is typically ahead of the offense in terms of week 1 effectiveness.

Our receivers, especially Engram, need to stop dropping passes, but the talent is all there. Eli looked pretty sharp when he had time to throw; sure he wasn't perfect, but I feel comfortable saying he still has enough juice to take this team into the playoffs and ride a hot streak at the end of the year, just like he has twice before for SB wins. Also, he wasn't exactly in sync with all of his receivers, but his arm strength was there and his misses were generally overthrown versus underthrown.

Our biggest issues: Flowers is terrible and our punt returners have been inconsistent and unreliable the entire offseason. At this point, I just want a PR that can 100% catch the ball, I don't even need return yards and I'll be happy. Those two positions need to be addressed and if either of those two issues didn't popup today, the Giants would have likely won the game.

This team has the potential to be a playoff team just a year removed from a 3-13 season. With all that said, the quality of our coaching staff, our new schemes, and our new personnel department led by Mr. Gettleman are absolutely huge improvements over the past couple of years. I'm confident they will continue to work their asses off until we find the correct players for our remaining positions of need. I'd say those two spots plus adding improved depth at every position are at the top of their list.

I wouldn't be even remotely this optimistic if this were a week 1 loss last year given the presence of McAdoo and Reese.
Calais Campbell is a mother fucking  
Bluesbreaker : 9/9/2018 5:48 pm : link
Home wrecker . Flowers had Zero chance against him he abused
Soldier as well . Last Season he had 4 sacks in the Jags opener . vs Texans . They are tough in the trenches on both sides of the ball ..
Some of the play calling was less than desirable .
Barkley didn't need to be rested . The two point play call after a 68 yard run . That is the one time I would have considered using Stewart he is suited for the goal line .
some of the short passes that are dangerous for not only turnovers batted balls ect. but getting players killed
Where the hell was Ellison on the 3rd and 5-7 yard plays .
He has size unlike Enram he can block and very good hands .
They never split Barkley wide and like zero wheel routes .
I would consider Mercedes Lewis and any RT that could be found . Flowers is gonna get Eli Killed .
RE: The Jags are a better team  
djm : 9/9/2018 5:50 pm : link
In comment 14067312 AcesUp said:
Quote:
It almost felt like we were playing uphill all game. They're just flat out better on the lines than we are and it's hard to win when you're losing that battle.

We'll definitely be competitive this year, I think this game showed that. However, the OL needs to improve if there's any hope of being a threat in the NFC though.


Pretty much my thoughts but Iíll caveat them by saying I never like to take too much good from a home loss. Yeah, we competed, but still a loss. With that said, you have to be moderately pleased with the D and seeing Barkley and Beckham do their thing is reassuring as well.

I just wish this team wasnít always saddled with god awful at a position or two. Those guys fucking kill us year in year out. Can we just have kinda bad at RT instead of nightmarish bad?

Talk to me in a couple of weeks.
RE: RE: that last pass to Shepard  
Rjanyg : 9/9/2018 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14067475 Blue21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14067375 Rory said:


Quote:


the defender was holding his hand down while the ball was already released by Eli.

Looked like clear PI to me

That was the game right there



Yep! Couldn't believe no call


Total PI.
I thought the guys battled today  
JerseyCityJoe : 9/9/2018 6:16 pm : link
So I'm happy about that.
At some point you have to realise they just played  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/9/2018 6:16 pm : link
the best defense in football. Or at worst 2nd best next to the Rams.
Some Thoughts,  
clatterbuck : 9/9/2018 6:16 pm : link
a reason to be somewhat optimistic if you're so inclined: they had a chance to win in the last 2 min. against one the best teams in the league; that Jags D is terrific across the board; Saquon is who they said he was; OBJ is back; Eli had a good game under constant pressure; he had to unload the ball on the first OBJ miss; on the second, Beckham was impeded just enough to ruin the timing; D turned it around and shut down the Jags in the 2nd half; kicking game looked good, Rosas solid; good game for Apple; and Shephard's block on Barkley's TD run was a thing of beauty.

On the other hand, too many drops and Engram had a terrible game; needs to fight for some of those contested balls; O-line issues magnified by Jags superb front; Flowers is who we said he was; really missed Vernon; why was Clay signed, exactly and wasn't that an oppportunity to put Beckham back there? Why wasn't Jonathon Stewart in the game for the 2pt try?

This, suprisingly, at least to me, became a winnable game. For first game, new D, new O, they didn't suck

I think Giants beat Dallas next week.
RE: Leonard Cohen  
bluesince56 : 9/9/2018 6:16 pm : link
In comment 14067771 plato said:
Quote:
ďI saw the future, it was murderĒ


Good post
djm & clatterbuck  
arniefez : 9/9/2018 6:28 pm : link
I agree with all of what you both said. There are no good losses in the NFL. 0-1 sucks. The best part of the day for me was the defensive scheme. Unfortunately as noted above the Giants are so weak in certain areas itís difficult to see this season turning out well. Maybe a few more wins than last year and an even older QB next year.
A relief to see them fight to the end  
JonC : 9/9/2018 6:42 pm : link
but, predictably, the OL is an issue and the pass rush is not there yet.

Ultimately, this is a young football team that played like one. Crucial mistakes, left a lot of yards and crucial plays on the field because they weren't aware or lost focus.

Tons of teaching points, plenty to build on.
Itís amazing how many people  
Leg of Theismann : 9/9/2018 6:44 pm : link
Are drawing conclusions like ď2 year rebuild at leastĒ from just one freaking game. The FIRST game of the Shurmur era. At least the Giants were competitive and came up 5 points short to a team that almost went to the super bowl last year. Do you remember week 1 against Dallas a year ago? I would say this performance looked far more promising than that one.

The defense looked good to me. And Iím reserving all judgments of the offense until they play a defense that ISNíT the best defense in the league and theyíve all played together for at least 3-4 weeks. Everyone agreed that if we can get to 4-4 at the bye weíll actually be in prime position to make a run, so losing today by 5 points to a fantastic team Iím not about to hit the panic button.
Iíll never knock a player for trying to make a play...  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/9/2018 6:50 pm : link
Barkley looks like everything hes billed and more. I cant think of any Giants running back who breaks those tackles and takes it to the house. Special player the Giants have there.

Beckham was Beckham, played very well today and cant really ask him to do more.

Shepard and Engram. For a team that has such a razor thin margin of error, those 4 drops cannot occur. Those 4 balls should have been caught and all of them would have gone for 1st Downs. Pretty disappointing for these two players were counting on.

The offensive line. Flowers is fucking awful, I dont know how this dude was the 9th overall pick in 2015. He fucking blows. He got his lunch taken from him today which I guess shouldnt surprise anyone. The pick 6 was a direct result of the immediate pressure he gave up. There has to be a better alternative somewhere.

Our prized free agent acquisition, Nate Solder also had a rough game. He gave up a lot of pressure and had a killer holding penalty that stalled a drive around mid-field. Also a disappointing appearance but I think hell bounce back next week. The Jags have the best defense in the game and the best defensive line in the NFL.

I didnt really key on Hernandez, Halapio or Omaheh. They didnt really get push and it seemed they allowed Eli to step up when he had too.

I thought Eli had a good game, I believe hes still got some magic left in the tank. Not really worried about him. Ill chalk up missing OBJ in the end zone in the second half to not enough reps yet. Hell be fine.


I thought the defense played relatively well, but the Jags arent exactly an offensive team. Bortles is mediocre and they dont have anyone who will wow you at the skill positions.

Eli Apple had a hell of a game, hopefully he can keep it up. Blanket coverage all day. Thats a good sign.

Need to see more of a pass rush though. Very stout against the run but Vernon is our only edge rusher. Not hard to see how/why the Giants liked Bradley Chubb in the draft. Especially with Vernon likely getting cut next off season to save cap space, this is a real need.

This loss stings as I felt like this game was for the taking. But I think it will get better! Onto Dallas and they are looking like complete fucking ass right now.
Share Share
RE: RE: RE: Other than Flowers.....  
UberAlias : 9/9/2018 7:26 pm : link
In comment 14067563 RDJR said:
Quote:
In comment 14067533 UberAlias said:


Quote:


In comment 14067380 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Iím really encouraged by what I saw. We played a tough defense, in the rain.

. Agreed. They are not there yet, but looking better. Thatís the important takeaway.



Itís week one with a new coach and front office. Did you expect we wouldnít show up? Jax is not good offensively. Their D is dominant. We lost. No silver lining. If 13 and 26 show up we will compete.
you really has issue with my take? Youíre not remotely realistic.
one silver lining for me  
Jerz44 : 9/9/2018 8:05 pm : link
was that this was against an amazing d. this O could score a ton of points against a more 'standard' d and our D looks good.

im still optimistic
I counted  
ryanmkeane : 9/9/2018 8:32 pm : link
about 9 plays that were single handily ruined by Flowers including multiple really huge plays that could have swung the drive. It really is unacceptable at this point. Leaving him out there and you risk losing huge plays and drives due to the fact that he literally canít block.

Defense played well enough to win this game. Unfortunately the OL loses it for us again.
RE: ...  
The_Boss : 9/9/2018 9:17 pm : link
In comment 14067517 christian said:
Quote:
Nate Solder was as bad as Flowers today. I know that's tough to hear, but he was awful.


For real. Was at the game. He looked like horseshit.
RE: RE: ...  
Simms11 : 9/9/2018 9:39 pm : link
In comment 14068332 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14067517 christian said:


Quote:


Nate Solder was as bad as Flowers today. I know that's tough to hear, but he was awful.



For real. Was at the game. He looked like horseshit.


Played well enough for Brady last year. Heís much better then what we had there last year. The left side will not be as much of an issue. Eli wasnít running for his life or getting hit from the blind side.

Halapio has to get more push in the middle. I saw him getting pushed right back on a few occasions.
I actually liked the play design.  
St. Jimmy : 9/9/2018 11:43 pm : link
There were plays where guys were open in space. Unfortunately, They were getting tackled a yard or two short of the first down. The execution was off today. Hopefully, that will improve later in the season.

The defense looked good although we'll see how they look against a real passing offense. Bortles stinks.
Eli with 0 TD's??!  
prdave73 : 9/9/2018 11:48 pm : link
This is what bothers me. But yet Rodgers with one leg can go 3 TD's in a quarter?! Don't say its Rodgers because the WR's have to run certain routes and catch the balls too. The Giants have players on offense and should be able to do the same thing.. smh..
RE: My Takeaways  
Ned In Atlanta : 9/9/2018 11:50 pm : link
In comment 14067488 lax counsel said:
Quote:
Pros
-defense looked very good
-Eli Apple, to his credit looked very good
- Barkley shows fairly well, most of his stats on one run.
-I like all of the defensive looks from Bettcher.

Cons
- game number 34 in a row under 30 points
-offense, for the most part still putrid, different names same result
- o line still pretty bad, although Eli got more time today then last year, not much but definitely more
- Eli continuing to show dimisnhed skills throwing the ball downfield. Iím not referring to the times when heís under pressure, Iím talking about all the inconsistency on where the ball is delivered.
- coaching changed , still looks like mcadoo, terrible play calling down the stretch

I think weíre going to see a lot of these types of games. No one fears or respects the giants passing game, but we ll see one or two Barkley runs that makes everyone will go wild in a losing effort. These are the things that all of the overhaul fans feared, and they feared their ugly heads today.

Show me a line that can block with consistency. Show me a qb that doesnít feel phantom pressure when he does get blocks and can throw the ball with accuracy and not miss wide open receivers. Show me receivers that catch the mall when it is delivered on time.

Outside of one Barkley run, I see more of the same from 2016 and 2017. Perhaps the problem runs deeper than mcadoo and he who shall remain nameless was part of a problem and not a passive victim?

For the BBI optimists who think the Giants can do no wrong, outside of one Barkley run, what should we be optimistic about, going on 3-15 dating back to Green Bay. Looks an awful lot like a 6-10 or 7-9 team that supposedly was win now and made all of their offseason decisions around one more run.

Show me something different.


Really good post. Hard to argue with your overall outlook
Some good, some okay, some bad, some ugly.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/9/2018 11:59 pm : link
Which is exactly how I think our season will go which averages out to a middle of the road team. Defense played alright, offense was up and down at best. Can't say this game did anything to bolster my expectations this season. Still hoping for the best, though. Ereck Flowers is one of the most putrid players to ever wear a Giants uniform. OLine as awhole still has alot of work to do.
It really just comes down to the  
ryanmkeane : 9/10/2018 12:23 am : link
OL. Simple as that. If they can be competent, we can be good. If they are below average to bad, we will be in the 4-6 Win category.
ryanmk,  
prdave73 : 9/10/2018 12:46 am : link
Agree 100%. It's as simple as that. If you look at the best offensive teams in the NFL, they all have one thing in common, great offensive lines.
RE: ...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/10/2018 1:18 am : link
In comment 14067517 christian said:
Quote:
Nate Solder was as bad as Flowers today. I know that's tough to hear, but he was awful.


I think you need to rewatch the first quarter if you feel solder was as bad as flowers. Tripping flag, holding flag, and narrowly avoided being responsible for a safety.
RE: ryanmk,  
Jesse B : 9/10/2018 7:09 am : link
In comment 14068742 prdave73 said:
Quote:
Agree 100%. It's as simple as that. If you look at the best offensive teams in the NFL, they all have one thing in common, great offensive lines.


Not really. They all have great QB play. There are very few good OL in The league
Offensive Line starts with coaching  
cznmike : 9/10/2018 1:05 pm : link
Offensive Line Coach Hal Hunter

2018-Present: Offensive Line Coach, New York Giants

2017- There was a REASON he was unemployed

2016: Offensive Line Coach, Cleveland Browns
66 sacks= #1 allowed #19 av. yards rushing per game

2015: Offensive Line Coach, Indianapolis Colts
37 sacks = #15 allowed #29 av. yards rushing per game

2013-2014: Assistant Offensive Line Coach, Indianapolis Colts
(pass here, he was the assistant)

2012: Offensive Coordinator/Offensive Line Coach, San Diego Chargers
40 sacks =#12 #31 av. yards rushing per game

2007-2011: Offensive Line Coach, San Diego Chargers (2011 was his best season stat wise as an OL coach
28= #25 allowed #16 av. yards rushing per game
RE: Offensive Line starts with coaching  
Leg of Theismann : 9/10/2018 5:29 pm : link
In comment 14069586 cznmike said:
Quote:
Offensive Line Coach Hal Hunter

2018-Present: Offensive Line Coach, New York Giants

2017- There was a REASON he was unemployed

2016: Offensive Line Coach, Cleveland Browns
66 sacks= #1 allowed #19 av. yards rushing per game

2015: Offensive Line Coach, Indianapolis Colts
37 sacks = #15 allowed #29 av. yards rushing per game

2013-2014: Assistant Offensive Line Coach, Indianapolis Colts
(pass here, he was the assistant)

2012: Offensive Coordinator/Offensive Line Coach, San Diego Chargers
40 sacks =#12 #31 av. yards rushing per game

2007-2011: Offensive Line Coach, San Diego Chargers (2011 was his best season stat wise as an OL coach
28= #25 allowed #16 av. yards rushing per game


Well damn. I had no idea he was that bad. Go figure.
RE: My Takeaways  
Red Right Hand : 9/10/2018 8:35 pm : link
In comment 14067488 lax counsel said:
Quote:
Perhaps the problem runs deeper than mcadoo and he who shall remain nameless was part of a problem and not a passive victim?



Ray Handley had nothing to do with this...
RE: Overall Not the Look Of a Playoff Team  
Red Right Hand : 9/10/2018 8:47 pm : link
In comment 14067597 Jeffrey said:
Quote:
Play calling, on again, off again Eli, poor return teams, and an OL which looks no better than last year. Pugh, Richburg and Fluker are no worse than what they have added.
No, but they're about 100 million cheaper
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