I really, really agree with Sy's view on Myles Jack. That guy is an incredible player. He was the guy Barkley juked on the TD run, and still was the last defender back chasing Barkley to the end zone. Saw the same thing with Mack last night on the long Cobb TD. Both hugely talented guys, but great effort players as well. Winners.
The angle I had from the stands made me think the same thing about lateral runs. A couple of times the only thing keeping the JAX back from getting out wide was a good angle and tackle by a DB in space.
Agree, kudos to Shurmer for giving plenty of help where it was needed in pass pro.
re: Eli... you mentioned the 2 TD overthrows to OBJ but that 1st one was a smart desperation throw. We would have been lucky to get that one.
the other overthrow to OBJ and, IMO, the more egregious underthrow to SS on 4th down at the end were the real bad throws to key in on; as were the numerous high, behind and late throws that ended in completions but kept the gains to a minimum.
When I saw the replay it seems OBJ took his angle too sharply and Eli actually put it on a more straight up the field spot/angle to lead OBJ away from the Safety.
Had Odell taken his route more wide and upfield I think that lands right in his hands.
...got a little bump in on OBJ downfield on that post route that was enough to slow him a step - if he didn't it's a TD. The one before the half he just bailed too soon - he needed to hold it a split second longer.
On that final throw to Shepard McCray whooped Flowers again who took a horrible set giving up the outside (watch his feet in the replay - he's beyond 90 degrees to LOS) and McCray managed to get a hand on Eli's throwing arm as he was bringing the ball up to deliver. Just enough to get his shoulders off square toward the sideline and impact the release leaving it short. Ideally he would have felt the pressure early enough and slid up a little as he set but it wasn't just a plain under throw as has been discussed.
re: Eli... you mentioned the 2 TD overthrows to OBJ but that 1st one was a smart desperation throw. We would have been lucky to get that one.
the other overthrow to OBJ and, IMO, the more egregious underthrow to SS on 4th down at the end were the real bad throws to key in on; as were the numerous high, behind and late throws that ended in completions but kept the gains to a minimum.
thoughts?
It can be debated. Tough throw for sure, but the best make it routinely.
Manning wasn't very inaccurate. He was what he has been for years...solid most of the time, off the mark a few times.
He was the guy Barkley juked on the TD run, and still was the last defender back chasing Barkley to the end zone.
Yep, Jack on that play nearly impressed me as much as Barkley did. You can see him nearly fall to the ground off the juke but then very gracefully turn, get back to his feet, and take off.
Sy can you please address these comments from PS Â
Q: Back to Ereck Flowers at right tackle – what would you have to see to rotate someone else in there?
A: We’re just going to try to get better. As you know, I’m fond of our roster. I’m fond of our offensive linemen. Ereck had a lot of really good plays yesterday, so what we’re going to do is try to help him with some of the technique work that he can improve on, just like every player, to eliminate some of those mistakes. You just keep working with him, and then we always rotate guys through in the event that we have injuries. You don’t see that, but that happens.
Q: I meant on a Sunday, to rotate someone in there, or to maybe use someone else there.
A: We’ll see. Right now, what we’re doing is trying to get every player better. I’ll probably say it for the 10th time now, he had a lot of plays that were really good.
As someone who went through the game film, would you agree there were "a lot of plays that were really good" ?
Disappointed to see them put Engam in key blocking situations Â
Even Engram isn't a good blocker and never will be. His size limits him too much. This is something McAdoo couldn't figure out either. The guy is a over sized WR. He can block DBs and not much more. Hopefully they'll put him in more advantageous situations.
re: Eli... you mentioned the 2 TD overthrows to OBJ but that 1st one was a smart desperation throw. We would have been lucky to get that one.
the other overthrow to OBJ and, IMO, the more egregious underthrow to SS on 4th down at the end were the real bad throws to key in on; as were the numerous high, behind and late throws that ended in completions but kept the gains to a minimum.
thoughts?
It can be debated. Tough throw for sure, but the best make it routinely.
Manning wasn't very inaccurate. He was what he has been for years...solid most of the time, off the mark a few times.
This, Eli gets pressure and so does Aaron Rodgers (among others) and Rodgers gets the ball there.
Dan, Eli over threw that pass to OBJ. The ball was thrown down the middle and that was where Odell was. There was no adjustment or shallowing the route. Ball was just two yards too far.
And the pass to Shepard was under thrown. 1 yard farther and it is 1st down at worst and maybe a TD. Shepard had his man beat. And by under throwing it, it allowed the DB to grab Shepard's arm as he reached back. If that ball was farther, it would have also got the PI called.
re: Eli... you mentioned the 2 TD overthrows to OBJ but that 1st one was a smart desperation throw. We would have been lucky to get that one.
the other overthrow to OBJ and, IMO, the more egregious underthrow to SS on 4th down at the end were the real bad throws to key in on; as were the numerous high, behind and late throws that ended in completions but kept the gains to a minimum.
thoughts?
On the 4th down throw, the pocket was collapsing, Eli's arm was grabbed as he wound up and he wasn't able to step into the throw. I'm no Eli apologist but given all of that, I thought it was a pretty strong attempt.
Had Hayden not grabbed Shep's arm (it was a clear penalty to me) there's a shot he makes that catch given that Hayden used Shep's arm to turn his body around and break it up. I also wouldn't be surprised if Eli saw the hold and threw it in that direction to get the call which we've seen him do on numerous occasions before.
When I saw the replay it seems OBJ took his angle too sharply and Eli actually put it on a more straight up the field spot/angle to lead OBJ away from the Safety.
Had Odell taken his route more wide and upfield I think that lands right in his hands.
Exactly. see Eli's presser today. He said exactly the same thing but in an Eli I'm not going to say anything about my guy way.
I agree they were not egregious qb errors. The first was a quick release with unbalanced feet but I'm not sure he gets the pass off at all if he hangs on longer. On the 2nd I think Beckham got tied up briefly with a db and if not, that pass would have been catchable.
Both passes were disappointing but not sure I can "blame" qb or receiver on either.
A little more optimistic than most here ..
Myles Jack was all over the place .
We took on the NFL's best defense imo .
A bit down on Eli but he was under duress entire game .
I would consider Lewis as a TE think his size can help in some short yardage areas 5-7 yards . Not sure about his blocking though .
Eli doesnt even have to hit him in stride, just get it to him so he doesnt fall down and there is no doubt in my mind, Odell scores there.
That said, for a few seasons Eli has suffered from David Carr Syndrome. Even when pressure isnt there, Eli perceives it to be there and gets rid of the ball as if it were there.
This often leads to him mis-firing or just not seeing guys running free.
Even Engram isn't a good blocker and never will be. His size limits him too much. This is something McAdoo couldn't figure out either. The guy is a over sized WR. He can block DBs and not much more. Hopefully they'll put him in more advantageous situations.
I don't think anyone expects Engram to stone a DL, but he has to be able to at least get a body on him. He completely whiffed on a couple of run plays that resulted in his guy tackling Barkley for a loss and no gain. He has to be better than that.
was the fantastic catch he made in traffic which was called back by Flowers's tripping penalty. It didn't count in the box score, but it was a fantastic grab and shows serious play-making ability.
What OLine adjustments did Shurmur make at halftime? Â
Eric: You said in the article that Shurmur made some nice OLine blocking adjustments. What did he do?
What did you think of Shurmurs game plan? I think he did more to scheme guys open than McAdoo. The last play of the game was a pick and Shepard was wide open. Eli just underthrew him and the CB was able to break it up. If Eli hit shepard in stride it was a touchdown.
re: Eli... you mentioned the 2 TD overthrows to OBJ but that 1st one was a smart desperation throw. We would have been lucky to get that one.
the other overthrow to OBJ and, IMO, the more egregious underthrow to SS on 4th down at the end were the real bad throws to key in on; as were the numerous high, behind and late throws that ended in completions but kept the gains to a minimum.
thoughts?
Glad someone else notices that for all the times a receiver drops a well thrown pass from Eli there are at least as many poorly thrown balls--high, behind, low--that the receivers catch thereby helping Eli look more accurate on the play than he was. Not attacking Eli, just trying to say that it is not always a drop by the receiver that should be noticed. They don't have a Brady or a Rogers back there throwing them perfect bullets. Eli has never been consistently accurate. This is not just the problem of being rushed, but rather who he is as a QB.
For all the talk about being "all in on Eli" the fact is that he is not now a QB who can carry a team by himself and all the shiny new offensive weapons are absolutely useless when an aging and immobile QB is not given enough time to get set and comfortable in the pocket. All in should have meant an improved offensive line. Maybe something magical will happen to make this OL come together and learn to block for the run or protect its QB.
Is the best defensive player in the NFL; the play where he cutoff, caught and punished Engram with a vicious tackle is one of the most amazing plays I've ever seen.
Nobody on either team could have have that, except for him. I thought Engram was gone.
Was very impressive. Was his medical diagnosis just a complete whiff? Or do they anticipate his knees to fail him sooner than later?
IIRC doctors thought that his knee was a ticking time bomb and it'd only hold up for a few years at most but could go at any time. I think the reason he fell was that teams didn't know how long that would last
I think DG overthought that move. Neither guy would be here as a receiving option, but Raymond showed some return ability in Pre-Season and the ability to hold onto the ball too. This move was a real head scratcher.
Agree, kudos to Shurmer for giving plenty of help where it was needed in pass pro.
the other overthrow to OBJ and, IMO, the more egregious underthrow to SS on 4th down at the end were the real bad throws to key in on; as were the numerous high, behind and late throws that ended in completions but kept the gains to a minimum.
thoughts?
Had Odell taken his route more wide and upfield I think that lands right in his hands.
On that final throw to Shepard McCray whooped Flowers again who took a horrible set giving up the outside (watch his feet in the replay - he's beyond 90 degrees to LOS) and McCray managed to get a hand on Eli's throwing arm as he was bringing the ball up to deliver. Just enough to get his shoulders off square toward the sideline and impact the release leaving it short. Ideally he would have felt the pressure early enough and slid up a little as he set but it wasn't just a plain under throw as has been discussed.
the other overthrow to OBJ and, IMO, the more egregious underthrow to SS on 4th down at the end were the real bad throws to key in on; as were the numerous high, behind and late throws that ended in completions but kept the gains to a minimum.
thoughts?
It can be debated. Tough throw for sure, but the best make it routinely.
Manning wasn't very inaccurate. He was what he has been for years...solid most of the time, off the mark a few times.
Yep, Jack on that play nearly impressed me as much as Barkley did. You can see him nearly fall to the ground off the juke but then very gracefully turn, get back to his feet, and take off.
A: We’re just going to try to get better. As you know, I’m fond of our roster. I’m fond of our offensive linemen. Ereck had a lot of really good plays yesterday, so what we’re going to do is try to help him with some of the technique work that he can improve on, just like every player, to eliminate some of those mistakes. You just keep working with him, and then we always rotate guys through in the event that we have injuries. You don’t see that, but that happens.
Q: I meant on a Sunday, to rotate someone in there, or to maybe use someone else there.
A: We’ll see. Right now, what we’re doing is trying to get every player better. I’ll probably say it for the 10th time now, he had a lot of plays that were really good.
As someone who went through the game film, would you agree there were "a lot of plays that were really good" ?
Quote:
re: Eli... you mentioned the 2 TD overthrows to OBJ but that 1st one was a smart desperation throw. We would have been lucky to get that one.
the other overthrow to OBJ and, IMO, the more egregious underthrow to SS on 4th down at the end were the real bad throws to key in on; as were the numerous high, behind and late throws that ended in completions but kept the gains to a minimum.
thoughts?
It can be debated. Tough throw for sure, but the best make it routinely.
Manning wasn't very inaccurate. He was what he has been for years...solid most of the time, off the mark a few times.
This, Eli gets pressure and so does Aaron Rodgers (among others) and Rodgers gets the ball there.
Dan, Eli over threw that pass to OBJ. The ball was thrown down the middle and that was where Odell was. There was no adjustment or shallowing the route. Ball was just two yards too far.
And the pass to Shepard was under thrown. 1 yard farther and it is 1st down at worst and maybe a TD. Shepard had his man beat. And by under throwing it, it allowed the DB to grab Shepard's arm as he reached back. If that ball was farther, it would have also got the PI called.
the other overthrow to OBJ and, IMO, the more egregious underthrow to SS on 4th down at the end were the real bad throws to key in on; as were the numerous high, behind and late throws that ended in completions but kept the gains to a minimum.
thoughts?
On the 4th down throw, the pocket was collapsing, Eli's arm was grabbed as he wound up and he wasn't able to step into the throw. I'm no Eli apologist but given all of that, I thought it was a pretty strong attempt.
Had Hayden not grabbed Shep's arm (it was a clear penalty to me) there's a shot he makes that catch given that Hayden used Shep's arm to turn his body around and break it up. I also wouldn't be surprised if Eli saw the hold and threw it in that direction to get the call which we've seen him do on numerous occasions before.
Had Odell taken his route more wide and upfield I think that lands right in his hands.
Exactly. see Eli's presser today. He said exactly the same thing but in an Eli I'm not going to say anything about my guy way.
Both passes were disappointing but not sure I can "blame" qb or receiver on either.
It was 20-9.
Myles Jack was all over the place .
We took on the NFL's best defense imo .
A bit down on Eli but he was under duress entire game .
I would consider Lewis as a TE think his size can help in some short yardage areas 5-7 yards . Not sure about his blocking though .
Eli doesnt even have to hit him in stride, just get it to him so he doesnt fall down and there is no doubt in my mind, Odell scores there.
That said, for a few seasons Eli has suffered from David Carr Syndrome. Even when pressure isnt there, Eli perceives it to be there and gets rid of the ball as if it were there.
This often leads to him mis-firing or just not seeing guys running free.
I don't think anyone expects Engram to stone a DL, but he has to be able to at least get a body on him. He completely whiffed on a couple of run plays that resulted in his guy tackling Barkley for a loss and no gain. He has to be better than that.
What did you think of Shurmurs game plan? I think he did more to scheme guys open than McAdoo. The last play of the game was a pick and Shepard was wide open. Eli just underthrew him and the CB was able to break it up. If Eli hit shepard in stride it was a touchdown.
the other overthrow to OBJ and, IMO, the more egregious underthrow to SS on 4th down at the end were the real bad throws to key in on; as were the numerous high, behind and late throws that ended in completions but kept the gains to a minimum.
thoughts?
Glad someone else notices that for all the times a receiver drops a well thrown pass from Eli there are at least as many poorly thrown balls--high, behind, low--that the receivers catch thereby helping Eli look more accurate on the play than he was. Not attacking Eli, just trying to say that it is not always a drop by the receiver that should be noticed. They don't have a Brady or a Rogers back there throwing them perfect bullets. Eli has never been consistently accurate. This is not just the problem of being rushed, but rather who he is as a QB.
For all the talk about being "all in on Eli" the fact is that he is not now a QB who can carry a team by himself and all the shiny new offensive weapons are absolutely useless when an aging and immobile QB is not given enough time to get set and comfortable in the pocket. All in should have meant an improved offensive line. Maybe something magical will happen to make this OL come together and learn to block for the run or protect its QB.
Is the best defensive player in the NFL; the play where he cutoff, caught and punished Engram with a vicious tackle is one of the most amazing plays I've ever seen.
Nobody on either team could have have that, except for him. I thought Engram was gone.
IIRC doctors thought that his knee was a ticking time bomb and it'd only hold up for a few years at most but could go at any time. I think the reason he fell was that teams didn't know how long that would last