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Le'veon Bell has overated himself...

sxdxca : 9/10/2018 11:56 pm
Todd Gurley is twice as explosive as Bell, and two years younger. Gurley is worth every penny of that 45 million dollar contract guarantee he got.

The Steelers have estimated Bell correctly. He's not worth what Gurley got, he should be happy with 33 million guarantee.

Gurley's 40 yard time 4.40
Bell 40 yard time 4.60

If I'm the steelers, I'm not budging, sorry you're not worth that. Keep holding out, your just hurting yourself. You don't believe me watch these highlights, in the link below.






link - ( New Window )
Not only that,  
Mr. Bungle : 9/11/2018 12:01 am : link
James Conner rushed 31 times for 135 yards and 2 touchdowns while catching 5 of 6 targets for 57 yards against the Browns.

They're getting big production from a running back with Bell sitting at home.
The holdout has nothing to do with a staring contest  
Strahan91 : 9/11/2018 12:04 am : link
to see who blinks first. The deadline has passed for an extension. This is about Bell preserving his body for a big contract in the offseason
What the fuck does one have to do with the other?  
robbieballs2003 : 9/11/2018 12:04 am : link
Bell turned his deal down prior to Gurley getting his money and it wasn't about the overall price it was about the guaranteed money. Bell has been a beast. How does Gurley playing well devalue him? Your posts are so ridiculous.
RE: The holdout has nothing to do with a staring contest  
robbieballs2003 : 9/11/2018 12:05 am : link
In comment 14070887 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
to see who blinks first. The deadline has passed for an extension. This is about Bell preserving his body for a big contract in the offseason


Shhhh. Don't let facts get in the way of his "research".
The amount of money they guaranteed Bell  
jcn56 : 9/11/2018 12:12 am : link
was pretty low. I can understand him wanting no part of that deal.
_  
Banks : 9/11/2018 12:17 am : link
I don't blame Bell for maximizing his value. Some team will pay him more guaranteed than the Steelers. On the other hand, I can see why the Steelers aren't breaking the bank. That line is pretty good, Bell has a lot of wear from the past couple of years, and Conner is talented. He isn't Bell level, but he will get 75% production at a fraction of the cost allowing the steelers to rebuild in the soon to be post Big Ben era.
none of these are related  
GiantsFan84 : 9/11/2018 12:24 am : link
can gurley split out wide and run wr routes like bell?

does conner attract the attention of the defense and free up brown?
Snacks tweeting during the game  
BigBlue4You09 : 9/11/2018 12:31 am : link
“DRC my brother...I love watching my guy play. Not too many that’s “realer”...raider nation got a steal”
Carr has tunnel vision  
dep026 : 9/11/2018 12:35 am : link
For only cook tonight. He had both cooper and Nelson wide open for first down and is fixated on Cook.

Not impressed with Carr whatsoever.
RE: Snacks tweeting during the game  
madgiantscow009 : 9/11/2018 12:46 am : link
In comment 14070901 BigBlue4You09 said:
Quote:
“DRC my brother...I love watching my guy play. Not too many that’s “realer”...raider nation got a steal”


we do miss his realness.
RE: Not only that,  
Mike in NY : 9/11/2018 6:50 am : link
In comment 14070886 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
James Conner rushed 31 times for 135 yards and 2 touchdowns while catching 5 of 6 targets for 57 yards against the Browns.

They're getting big production from a running back with Bell sitting at home.


Production because of an insane number of touches. Pittsburgh likes to run their RB’s into the ground knowing how fungible they can be. Bell just doesn’t want 36 touches per game for 16 games.
RE: What the fuck does one have to do with the other?  
Giantology : 9/11/2018 7:24 am : link
In comment 14070888 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Bell turned his deal down prior to Gurley getting his money and it wasn't about the overall price it was about the guaranteed money. Bell has been a beast. How does Gurley playing well devalue him? Your posts are so ridiculous.


But robbie, he did the research. Look, he even has their 40 yard dash times. 4.40 is definitely faster than 4.60!
He really hasn’t overrated himself at all  
UConn4523 : 9/11/2018 7:35 am : link
notice why Pitt even tied that shitty team in the first place? Conner will be a fine replacement but he simply doesn’t do what Bell does and would have done to Cleveland.

Good look just replacing borderline WR1 production out of Bell. And that’s why he’s worth more than Gurley. The only argument that can be made is age and the strikes he’s accrued via suspensions.
Bell has never been  
Sy'56 : 9/11/2018 7:37 am : link
the best back in the league...arguably never even top 5. But because his fantasy numbers are so good....fans get confused. He isn't worth the Gurley money
RE: Bell has never been  
dep026 : 9/11/2018 7:38 am : link
In comment 14070981 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
the best back in the league...arguably never even top 5. But because his fantasy numbers are so good....fans get confused. He isn't worth the Gurley money



Ummmm, huh?
Easy does it  
Jimmy Googs : 9/11/2018 7:41 am : link
...
Sy  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/11/2018 7:58 am : link
I think Bell - in the limited number of times I've watched - is a pretty good back
Bell screwed himself here...  
EricJ : 9/11/2018 8:35 am : link
mostly because his team mates are now OVER him. He has hurt his relationship in the locker room. I guarantee that the team is so happy that Conner is playing well. Team unity wins championships.
Lol  
Keith : 9/11/2018 8:38 am : link
ok. So much nonesense on bbi these days.
RE: Lol  
EricJ : 9/11/2018 8:40 am : link
In comment 14071031 Keith said:
Quote:
ok. So much nonesense on bbi these days.


Did you hear the comments from the team on him? you do not think that plays into any of this at all now?
Sorry Eric,  
Keith : 9/11/2018 8:42 am : link
that was in response to the guy claiming that Bell isn't even a top back in the NFL. It's absurd.

Bell is doing what he has to do. He will get his huge deal in the offseason. Pittsburgh tried playing games, not Bell.
I’ve officially disagreed with Sy  
UConn4523 : 9/11/2018 8:45 am : link
and feel very confident in it. If you want to call Gurley better, fine, the case can be made. But to see there’s been 5 RBs better than him at any point the last the past 4-5 years is absurd. Literally one of the dumbest things I’ve read on this site.
RE: Sorry Eric,  
EricJ : 9/11/2018 8:55 am : link
In comment 14071038 Keith said:
Quote:
that was in response to the guy claiming that Bell isn't even a top back in the NFL. It's absurd.

Bell is doing what he has to do. He will get his huge deal in the offseason. Pittsburgh tried playing games, not Bell.


I agree that Bell is a top back. I also agree with Uconn's prior statement about disagreeing with Sy on this. To say Bell is not a top 5 back is stretching it quite a bit.

The thing is that Bell may be worth the salary this year, but I would hesitate to sign him to a deal that is still paying him at this level three years from now. Not unless there is a clause that removes the guarantees if he gets another substance suspension.
RE: Bell has never been  
Dave in PA : 9/11/2018 9:10 am : link
In comment 14070981 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
the best back in the league...arguably never even top 5. But because his fantasy numbers are so good....fans get confused. He isn't worth the Gurley money
Not arguing, but name 5 that have been continually better
RE: Bell has never been  
BigBlueShock : 9/11/2018 9:19 am : link
In comment 14070981 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
the best back in the league...arguably never even top 5. But because his fantasy numbers are so good....fans get confused. He isn't worth the Gurley money

Holy shitballs. Either someone hacked Sy’s account or it is officially time for him to retire. That’s one of the absolute worst player evaluations I’ve ever seen on a player.

Fantasy football? Wtf?
RE: RE: Bell has never been  
BillKo : 9/11/2018 9:20 am : link
In comment 14071086 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
In comment 14070981 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


the best back in the league...arguably never even top 5. But because his fantasy numbers are so good....fans get confused. He isn't worth the Gurley money

Not arguing, but name 5 that have been continually better


Yeah, I mean......he's not Top 5????
I also don’t get why people refer to fantasy  
UConn4523 : 9/11/2018 9:21 am : link
when discussing players. I play fantasy, I also watch the games. I see a guy with an extremely unique skillset that runs routes like a starting WR. Gurley doesn’t do that. Elliott doesn’t do that. And I’m todays NFL it’s extremely valuable to be able to do that, hence the Barkley pick.

But I’m curious about this top 5 list. I really need to see who these guys are that are better.
I think Bell legitimately wants to limit his workload  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/11/2018 9:29 am : link
In 2016 he had 250+ carries and last year he had 300+. That's a lot of road wear. Not a lot of backs can be effective with that much workload in succession these days.

He probably suspects that with the franchise tag, Pittsburgh will, pun intended, run him into the ground and discard him like trash.
2-3 years ago  
KWALL2 : 9/11/2018 9:52 am : link
It isn’t possible to make the argument Bell wasn’t top 5.

There was no weakness. He’s was excellent at every aspect of the game including playing in the slot which added even more value.

Last year, he looked slower so I get the Steelers not wanting to give a monster deal. RBs age fast. I think we saw some evidence of it last year.

Steelers should have traded him. He’ll come back for 4 games and he’s on another team next year.
RBs since 2013 with >1200 rushing yds and >600 receiving yards  
giants#1 : 9/11/2018 9:57 am : link
Bell - 2014/2016/2017
Charles - 2013
Gurley - 2017
David Johnson - 2016
His YPC were defintely down last year  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/11/2018 10:07 am : link
...4.0 compared to 4.9 in 2016.

In 2016 he played in only 12 games but had 250+ carries. Add 75 receptions plus playoffs. That's a crazy high workload, especially considering the other weapons on that team (and a good backup like Deangelo Williams). No wonder his YPC went down.
even if bell slows down as a running back  
nygiants16 : 9/11/2018 10:14 am : link
you can line him up outside and he can become your nunber 2 receiver next to brown and still have his value..

that id what makes him great...
RE: His YPC were defintely down last year  
giants#1 : 9/11/2018 10:16 am : link
In comment 14071171 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...4.0 compared to 4.9 in 2016.

In 2016 he played in only 12 games but had 250+ carries. Add 75 receptions plus playoffs. That's a crazy high workload, especially considering the other weapons on that team (and a good backup like Deangelo Williams). No wonder his YPC went down.


He also had 400+ touches (excluding postseason) last season. And that's why he's holding out. He knows they'd give him another 400+ this season.
This is one of those weird situations  
gmen9892 : 9/11/2018 10:36 am : link
Where I legit get every side's point of view.

1) Steelers dont want to pay a 29 year old back that they routinely run into the ground big money.
2) Bell doesn't want another 400 touch season without having a secure long contract.
3) Bell is screwing over his teammates at a very real chance to get to the Super Bowl.


On another note, HARD disagree with Sy' on his evaluation of Bell. I am usually a fan of his evaluations as well, but I think this one is off base. If you have Gurley, David Johnson, and maybe Elliot above him (disagree), I can see that. But who else? Kamara? I cant even begin to think of the 5th person you would have.
RE: This is one of those weird situations  
nygiants16 : 9/11/2018 10:37 am : link
In comment 14071208 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
Where I legit get every side's point of view.

1) Steelers dont want to pay a 29 year old back that they routinely run into the ground big money.
2) Bell doesn't want another 400 touch season without having a secure long contract.
3) Bell is screwing over his teammates at a very real chance to get to the Super Bowl.


On another note, HARD disagree with Sy' on his evaluation of Bell. I am usually a fan of his evaluations as well, but I think this one is off base. If you have Gurley, David Johnson, and maybe Elliot above him (disagree), I can see that. But who else? Kamara? I cant even begin to think of the 5th person you would have.


unless you are saying at end of the contract but bell is 26
NFL Contract Joke  
SgtDog : 9/11/2018 10:43 am : link
I usually side with the players. The NFL contract is a farce who gets a 5 year "contract" that the team can terminate whenever they want? It has gotten better since the franchise tag came along and the management of the guaranteed money. But for Bell a 6 year player.

2013: 405k salary 1.3m signing bonus
2014: 495k salary; 97.3k roster bonus
2015: 687k salary; 43k incentive
2016: 863k salary
2017: 12.1m salary
Total 16.03m 3.2m per year.

Say what you want, the Steelers got a deal it would be nice to see them pay him
Yep,  
Keith : 9/11/2018 10:45 am : link
the Steelers are a very cheap organization and they've gotten lucky to be able to keep their stars for the garbage they've offered. They should have either signed Bell or traded him.
top 5?  
Banks : 9/11/2018 11:36 am : link
I can't upload anything to google docs here, but here's a screenshot from 2013 til now (Bell's career span). Over this time, he's has the following ranks:
Total yards: 2 behind McCoy
Total TDs: 3 behind Murray, McCoy
rush yards: 3 behind McCoy, Murray
rush TDs: 5 behind Murray, Blount, McCoy, Lynch
rec. yards: 1
rec TDs: 12

Guys like Lynch, Charles, Forte all fell off the cliff after 2014 so I don't know the 5 that are out in front of him. Murray, McCoy, and Bell are leagues above their peers in that timespan.

RE: Bell has never been  
bw in dc : 9/11/2018 11:37 am : link
In comment 14070981 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
the best back in the league...arguably never even top 5. But because his fantasy numbers are so good....fans get confused. He isn't worth the Gurley money


He's not only a top 5 back but I think he'd be a top 10 WR if he was moved exclusively to that position.

But I'll bite - who are your top 5?

Zeke, Gurley, Johnson, McCoy, Gordon?
Personally I think the Steelers and Bell  
Leg of Theismann : 9/11/2018 11:43 am : link
should have worked something out for something between the original offer and what Gurley got. I think Bell was being extremely stubborn and I think the Steelers figured they could do alright without him.

That said, let's not go overboard here with saying Bell is overrated. From everything I've heard from actual defensive players, Bell is the hardest guy to tackle in the league, has outstanding vision and instincts, oh and he can catch by the way. He has a deadly set of skills.
On the original topic...  
bw in dc : 9/11/2018 11:44 am : link
this is an unusual situation because both Bell and the Pittsburgh front office are correct.

Bell is phenomenal and should be the highest paid RB in the league - in my view. He is THE swiss army knife of RBs. So I have zero problem with him going going down this path. The salary cap in the NFL is just the worst sort of economic bullsh-t that simply puts more money in the owners' pockets and less in pockets of players.

On the other hand, because of the economics, I hate paying premium cap dollars for a RB. They are a largely a commodity and one of the most fungible positions in the NFL. They grow on trees...
RE: On the original topic...  
Keith : 9/11/2018 11:47 am : link
In comment 14071308 bw in dc said:
Quote:
this is an unusual situation because both Bell and the Pittsburgh front office are correct.

Bell is phenomenal and should be the highest paid RB in the league - in my view. He is THE swiss army knife of RBs. So I have zero problem with him going going down this path. The salary cap in the NFL is just the worst sort of economic bullsh-t that simply puts more money in the owners' pockets and less in pockets of players.

On the other hand, because of the economics, I hate paying premium cap dollars for a RB. They are a largely a commodity and one of the most fungible positions in the NFL. They grow on trees...


Agreed. The Steelers should have done right by him though. He's given them everything and he's gotten paid very little in comparison to other stars. Their offer was very weak and they did it because they knew that they had him for the FT. They should have traded him so he can get his.
I don't understand his posturing  
Knineteen : 9/11/2018 1:08 pm : link
What is his vision for a future contract? He will be 27 at the beginning of his next contract with 5 full NFL seasons of abuse. And he's also exposing himself as NOT being a team player. What team is going to throw a ton of cash at him?

Why not just play this final season and fake injury?
RE: I don't understand his posturing  
Keith : 9/11/2018 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14071427 Knineteen said:
Quote:
What is his vision for a future contract? He will be 27 at the beginning of his next contract with 5 full NFL seasons of abuse. And he's also exposing himself as NOT being a team player. What team is going to throw a ton of cash at him?

Why not just play this final season and fake injury?


LOL, there is so much wrong with everything you wrote, but just to clarify. Him sitting out and protecting his body is going to hurt his chances of getting big money, but he should pretend to be hurt to get more money?
RE: I don't understand his posturing  
UConn4523 : 9/11/2018 1:11 pm : link
In comment 14071427 Knineteen said:
Quote:
What is his vision for a future contract? He will be 27 at the beginning of his next contract with 5 full NFL seasons of abuse. And he's also exposing himself as NOT being a team player. What team is going to throw a ton of cash at him?

Why not just play this final season and fake injury?


Raiders and Jets will have a ton of cap and both would love him. He has a bigger market than many on here want to think, and in the end he’s making a business decision which I’m sure GMs realize - it’s not like he’s simply refusing to play for the fuck of it.

He’s going to get paid more than Gurley barring any injuries when he does report.
Top players always get overpayed  
Keith : 9/11/2018 1:13 pm : link
on the free agent market. Bell will get a massive payday by someone.
RE: I don't understand his posturing  
bw in dc : 9/11/2018 1:25 pm : link
In comment 14071427 Knineteen said:
Quote:
What is his vision for a future contract? He will be 27 at the beginning of his next contract with 5 full NFL seasons of abuse. And he's also exposing himself as NOT being a team player. What team is going to throw a ton of cash at him?

Why not just play this final season and fake injury?


Team player? What does that mean these days? Are you naive enough to think owners are "team players"? They have the ability to cut players at will knowing a fair portion of most players' contracts are not guaranteed. They largely treat players as mercenaries and have out-negotiated the stupidest union on the planet to have almost all the leverage. Give me a f-ckin break.

Here's an idea - applaud Bell for fighting city hall.

And let me guess - you also think there is loyalty in the NFL...

As for Bell, I don't think Bell has been that abused. He's a freak of nature with this uncanny ability - very much like Emmitt Smith in this regard - to avoid heavy, direct hits. If it's not here on the perimeter, for example, he'll just step out of bounds. He's a very heady player.

Whoops  
Keith : 9/11/2018 1:27 pm : link
overpaid.
"Team Player"? Thats BS  
KWALL2 : 9/11/2018 2:05 pm : link
He played on a discount. He's trying to get paid and this is his best chance. He'll never have it again.

Bell is making the smart move here. Limit your injury risk. Come back late and play well. Get paid big & guaranteed money. That's what he should do.

Somebody said Bell and Steelers are right here. Its true. Steelers looking out for their interests and so is Bell. Nothing wrong there.

Who isn't right? The asshole teammates bitching about the guy trying to get his money.



What are the chances Bell sits out the rest of the season?  
Leg of Theismann : 9/11/2018 3:21 pm : link
I'm trying to decide if I should trade him or not. Spent $53 on him in Yahoo auction draft and thought it was a steal, don't think that so much now.

Someone is offering to trade me Fournette for Bell. Possibly even Rodgers for Bell (this is a 2 QB league).
I'd say 0%.  
Keith : 9/11/2018 3:24 pm : link
I think Bell has to come back by week 10 or the Steelers can own his rights next year too. I don't think Bell will be a fantasy factor this season.
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