Watching the first round of Monday night games, my biggest envy was line play. Pass protection, power running, ball control.
Yes, the youngster can scramble, who I wont specifically mention by name because this is a Giants site. That would absolutely help our cause here and there. But more times than not, these guys have 3, 4, or 5 seconds to throw. WR's can run their route and augment/pivot when needed and still have time to create something.
Eli is not Eli from 2011, we all know that. But the guy needs more time as a pocket passer to be effective. Frankly, I cannot believe I am still have this conversation, and I due know that some of the pressure was the byproduct of a very good defense we played. But come on now.
This week is big for me as a fan. If I do not see Getty looking at other tackle options, doing some form of due diligence, well, then I'm afraid our W/L ceiling comes down dramatically this year, in my eyes. 8-8, 9-7, max.
Tired of watching other teams and other QB's sitting back there and pointing out places to throw with time. Eli needs more. The team cannot execute on all cylinders without it. Make something happen.
Comparing them in any way to the Jax DL is a waste of time.
What I see are young quarterbacks making plays in unclean pockets
All NYG did in the draft was pick the best player in the draft with the #2 pick. If the draft is still about acquiring the best available talent regardless of position, the Giants did just that.
All NYG did in the draft was pick the best player in the draft with the #2 pick. If the draft is still about acquiring the best available talent regardless of position, the Giants did just that.
All NYG did in the draft was pick the best player in the draft with the #2 pick. If the draft is still about acquiring the best available talent regardless of position, the Giants did just that.
That's nonsense, at no point has anyone lobbied for pure BPA, it's always been a combination of value and need.
The correct answer is "what we saw at right tackle last week is not enough or becoming of a playoff team." It needs fixing. Should have been done in the off-season.
Facts are facts, playoff teams have great pass rushers, nearly all of them. This is not the only time Flowers will get blown up this year.
Wouldnt put too much stock in yesterdays Jet performance, Detroit is likely to be a bottom 5 team in this league. They have very little talent.
All NYG did in the draft was pick the best player in the draft with the #2 pick. If the draft is still about acquiring the best available talent regardless of position, the Giants did just that.
I love both Barkley and Eli, but after last season, it was time for a complete remake of the team including QB.
Eli needs to many things to be right for him to be the most effective. He still has plenty of left in the tank, but with a little younger legs, I think he probably makes those throws to OBJ that he missed on.
We are in the midst of a massive rebuild, and it looks like we will accumulate everything but the QB position. We are going to be in a situation where whenever we get a QB he will step into a good situation around him, but he will have to go through a massive learning curve himself.
The good thing is, the NFL is trending towards Rookie QBs being fairly successful if you have the right guy.
There was not a top tier tackle available at #2, or close to #2. I stand by Barkley.
But when Bill B and the Pats are trading mid to late round picks to garner a right tackle, one of which kept Brady untouched on Sunday, that guy could have and should have been us. We used next year's third on a hurt CB. We could have had the Pats RT. We whiffed. End of story.
Now we need to decide if there is a reasonable option out there on the waivers that could at minimum challenge Flowers.
Guys, Flowers noted in his presser yesterday "I missed on the first play because I thought he was a speed rusher, not a power guy." He's dumb, and on top of it he's not coached up because where was the Giants' o line coach with film on the dude. Are you serious? Five years worth of film on the guy and you don't know if he is a power or speed rusher???? Enough is enough.
We are 1 game in, but let's keep in mind there was hardly a consensus best overall QB. All had very real concerns.
And just to put it in perspective how far away we are from knowing the answer, Darnold could go on to start in the next 2 AFC title games and still not turn out to be a franchise QB with staying power, and I can't emphasize the "staying power" part enough. That is what it's all about.
Also OP his name is Sam Darnold.
So how do Brady and Brees still excel?
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So how do Brady and Brees still excel?
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So how do Brady and Brees still excel?
Because thats how their teams are built. But its hard to do it, which is why its only worth doing if the right QB is in place.
Watson comes out lighting the league up and gets hurt. Will now have to prove he can get back to where he was.
The Eagles were lucky enough to have Foles as a backup after losing Wentz should have crushed their dreams last season. Wentz will also have to prove he can make it all the way back.
RGIII's career was derailed due to injury.
Give him some semblance of protection and hell win a SB. The mobile QBs are exciting to watch at times, until they get hurt. Flowers is really hurting this team though.
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In comment 14071053 Bold Ruler said:
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So how do Brady and Brees still excel?
For one, you protect them. This team is constructed on playmakers, not in the trenches, at least on offense. Immobile QB they don't pass protect and huge investment in RB they don't open holes for.
The Giants have invested in offensive linemen, it just hasn't always worked out. but really, Brady is Brady, he's the best. You don't have to be mobile, you just have to be really good.
I'm watching these games and I'm seeing QB's going through progressions, checking down, scanning the field. Eli more times than not is already playing a slant in his mind before the ball is even hiked and every once in a while is able to use his in pocket awareness to step up and create a longer opportunity. But it's few and far between.
My OP was that exact point, not Darnold versus Barkley. Just how refreshing it is to watch a game where the QB isn't under pressure, EVERY, SINGLE, PLAY. Tired of this same conversation for the last five years.
QBs going thru progression, nice blocking for their RBs.
Don't compare Jax front to anything u saw yesterday they have one of the best in the NFL
You cant love the Barkley pick and also complain about the OL. This was an opportunity to remake the franchise. Gettleman blew it.
Out of fear of avoiding "Quarterback hell," Gettleman dropped us right smack-dab in the middle of it.
It could be a long, long time before this team is competitive again because we lack a winning presence at the most important position in professional sports.
If I were a D line I'd be salivating at the thought of rushing Eli Manning. Now this team may potentially have a season blown up because of a RT but Manning doesn't get hurt running. Awesome.
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BPA theory.
All NYG did in the draft was pick the best player in the draft with the #2 pick. If the draft is still about acquiring the best available talent regardless of position, the Giants did just that.
I love both Barkley and Eli, but after last season, it was time for a complete remake of the team including QB.
Eli needs to many things to be right for him to be the most effective. He still has plenty of left in the tank, but with a little younger legs, I think he probably makes those throws to OBJ that he missed on.
We are in the midst of a massive rebuild, and it looks like we will accumulate everything but the QB position. We are going to be in a situation where whenever we get a QB he will step into a good situation around him, but he will have to go through a massive learning curve himself.
The good thing is, the NFL is trending towards Rookie QBs being fairly successful if you have the right guy.
Yes.
I am not trying to say that is what Gettleman and Shurmur actually believe, I have zero insight into that. But if that fact pattern was true, how many of you would still wish they had just taken the best QB available, regardless of their own convictions on their talent?
Out of fear of avoiding "Quarterback hell," Gettleman dropped us right smack-dab in the middle of it.
It could be a long, long time before this team is competitive again because we lack a winning presence at the most important position in professional sports.
You'll be much, much better off if you adopt my way of thinking:
(1) The Giants should have gone QB at #2;
(2) They didn't;
(3) They got a running back who will make extraordinary runs look ordinary;
(4) He will help us win games;
(5) In the meantime, we'll just have to wait for our QB of the future.
Out of fear of avoiding "Quarterback hell," Gettleman dropped us right smack-dab in the middle of it.
It could be a long, long time before this team is competitive again because we lack a winning presence at the most important position in professional sports.
Passing on Darnold/Rosen with a 60 year old declining Eli was beyond idiotic but what can you do now
Just continue to be a fan and hope for the best
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I still can't believe that in arguably the best QB draft class since 1983, we went RB with the #2 pick. Un-frggin-believeable.
Out of fear of avoiding "Quarterback hell," Gettleman dropped us right smack-dab in the middle of it.
It could be a long, long time before this team is competitive again because we lack a winning presence at the most important position in professional sports.
You'll be much, much better off if you adopt my way of thinking:
(1) The Giants should have gone QB at #2;
(2) They didn't;
(3) They got a running back who will make extraordinary runs look ordinary;
(4) He will help us win games;
(5) In the meantime, we'll just have to wait for our QB of the future.
Ditto. Move on. Eli's here with Barkley. do the best they can. Get a QB down the road (or mold Lauletta). No Draft pick is a guarantee.
In 3 years we will likely know if this was the right decision or not, today we know nothing other than Barkley will be exceptional if he doesn't get hurt, and Darnold has a chance to be really good too but its way to early to tell. Thats what we know.
I am not trying to say that is what Gettleman and Shurmur actually believe, I have zero insight into that. But if that fact pattern was true, how many of you would still wish they had just taken the best QB available, regardless of their own convictions on their talent?
Well, I would have to say that leaves a bigger question: should these two guys be in charge of decision making going forward? Answer: No.
Additionally, the answer to your question is that YOU TRADE DOWN. Its asset management and they failed. Miserably. Just like they did when they used next year's 3rd round pick on SAM BEAL. Maximizing asset value is something that escapes this group. Maybe they need one of those "computer guys" to help them out.
Read my OP, I specifically note that this was not QB envy. I noted that its really nice to see how a team operates when a QB has time, you can run the ball with power, and control the clock when needed.
Yes, the thread went there. But my intent was not to have a QB debate, it was to address an enormous problem that continues to plague this team. If Saquon wasn't Saquon, he gets tackled by Miles Jack at the line of scrimmage, and ends up with about 35-40 rushing yards on the day and no TD. Yes, glad we have the kid because he's special.
But damn, we cannot rely on just magic. We need fundamentally sound line play, starting this week at Dallas.
That said, we are probably very lucky to have our current GM, DC, GM group.
That said, Shurm and Patricia, assuming, for one game, that you can just drop back ...and run your A list pass plays;
One thing about shanny/falcs or jets outside zone running, you possibly make more hay from the OL you actually DO have, and that goes to the pass game as well.
In other words, whereas outside zone running may seem more complex, it's probably easier on an OL that just basic pass protection simple drop backs given the state of DL play r now. Same thing three years now.
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believed Darnold or Rosen was a franchise QB, would many of you still lobby to spend the #2 pick on the best QB available? Do you take someone there because he is the best QB available even if you have concerns about their ceiling in the NFL?
I am not trying to say that is what Gettleman and Shurmur actually believe, I have zero insight into that. But if that fact pattern was true, how many of you would still wish they had just taken the best QB available, regardless of their own convictions on their talent?
Well, I would have to say that leaves a bigger question: should these two guys be in charge of decision making going forward? Answer: No.
Additionally, the answer to your question is that YOU TRADE DOWN. Its asset management and they failed. Miserably. Just like they did when they used next year's 3rd round pick on SAM BEAL. Maximizing asset value is something that escapes this group. Maybe they need one of those "computer guys" to help them out.
So you have concluded that Darnold is a franchise QB and that anyone who has not already concluded that should not be in an NFL front office? You should probably go back to just lurking.
You should also realize that "trade down" is not just an option you select from a drop down menu when your team is on the clock. Someone has to be willing to trade with you and offer you reasonable compensation for the trade down.
In short, you are basing most of your conclusions on your own snap opinions rather than any objective information.
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believed Darnold or Rosen was a franchise QB, would many of you still lobby to spend the #2 pick on the best QB available? Do you take someone there because he is the best QB available even if you have concerns about their ceiling in the NFL?
I am not trying to say that is what Gettleman and Shurmur actually believe, I have zero insight into that. But if that fact pattern was true, how many of you would still wish they had just taken the best QB available, regardless of their own convictions on their talent?
Well, I would have to say that leaves a bigger question: should these two guys be in charge of decision making going forward? Answer: No.
Additionally, the answer to your question is that YOU TRADE DOWN. Its asset management and they failed. Miserably. Just like they did when they used next year's 3rd round pick on SAM BEAL. Maximizing asset value is something that escapes this group. Maybe they need one of those "computer guys" to help them out.
I'd suggest you go back to lurking as your username suggests. Read more speak less. But if you choose to continue posting can I make a suggestion...
Change your username to Just-a-Moron. 👍
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In comment 14071124 Mike from Ohio said:
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believed Darnold or Rosen was a franchise QB, would many of you still lobby to spend the #2 pick on the best QB available? Do you take someone there because he is the best QB available even if you have concerns about their ceiling in the NFL?
I am not trying to say that is what Gettleman and Shurmur actually believe, I have zero insight into that. But if that fact pattern was true, how many of you would still wish they had just taken the best QB available, regardless of their own convictions on their talent?
Well, I would have to say that leaves a bigger question: should these two guys be in charge of decision making going forward? Answer: No.
Additionally, the answer to your question is that YOU TRADE DOWN. Its asset management and they failed. Miserably. Just like they did when they used next year's 3rd round pick on SAM BEAL. Maximizing asset value is something that escapes this group. Maybe they need one of those "computer guys" to help them out.
So you have concluded that Darnold is a franchise QB and that anyone who has not already concluded that should not be in an NFL front office? You should probably go back to just lurking.
You should also realize that "trade down" is not just an option you select from a drop down menu when your team is on the clock. Someone has to be willing to trade with you and offer you reasonable compensation for the trade down.
In short, you are basing most of your conclusions on your own snap opinions rather than any objective information.
Hi Mike from Ohio.
Maybe the news didnt get to you in Ohio, but our GM - without prompting - explained that he ran up to the podium, took NO calls and only waited 5 minutes to put in the pick because that was the minimum amount of time that a team could use before submitting the pick.
In other words, while bashing me for not using objective information, you have overlooked the very information that Gettleman presented to the media and fans in connection with this pick.
I'll go back to lurking when you stick to Ohio. Deal?
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In comment 14071124 Mike from Ohio said:
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believed Darnold or Rosen was a franchise QB, would many of you still lobby to spend the #2 pick on the best QB available? Do you take someone there because he is the best QB available even if you have concerns about their ceiling in the NFL?
I am not trying to say that is what Gettleman and Shurmur actually believe, I have zero insight into that. But if that fact pattern was true, how many of you would still wish they had just taken the best QB available, regardless of their own convictions on their talent?
Well, I would have to say that leaves a bigger question: should these two guys be in charge of decision making going forward? Answer: No.
Additionally, the answer to your question is that YOU TRADE DOWN. Its asset management and they failed. Miserably. Just like they did when they used next year's 3rd round pick on SAM BEAL. Maximizing asset value is something that escapes this group. Maybe they need one of those "computer guys" to help them out.
I'd suggest you go back to lurking as your username suggests. Read more speak less. But if you choose to continue posting can I make a suggestion...
Change your username to Just-a-Moron. 👍
Personal insults are always the way to prove your point. If your point is that you don't have anything substantive to say.
I think the moron is the guy who went all in on a 3-13 team and gave away next year's 3rd round pick for Sam Beal.
see what I did??
Its not one game. The issue is asset management and Gettleman has failed to show any idea how to maximize value of his assets. Refuses to trade down, makes fun of analytics, gives away next years 3rd round pick for a 165lb CB. This team had and has major gaping holes and there was an opportunity to commit to a real rebuild. Instead Gettleman reached for the duct tape and rubber cement.