I know - it's the 2nd game. It's Shurmur's 2nd game. Bettcher's 2nd game. Barkley's 2nd game. How can it be a "must win" ?
It is if we want to compete at all this year or be in the mix.
As it is, only ~12% of teams that start 0-2 make the playoffs, so the odds would obviously already be pretty heavily against us should we lose.
Dallas is not a good team this year. Dak Prescott isn't good. Their OL is a bit banged up and played poorly against CAR. There are very few weapons outside of Elliott. Their defense will probably be okay this year - not great.
There's really no excuse here. We need to score more than 15 points. We need to connect when plays are there to be made. We need to limit the mistakes.
If we can't win this game, this team isn't going anywhere anyway. But I 100% believe if we lose this game, the season will just spiral out of control and we'll be out of the mix by Halloween.
If the Giants want this season to mean something, they need to go into Dallas and make that evident. No excuses. No bullshit. Have to win.
You are aware of the fact that players learning new systems on both sides of the ball takes time?
It's like 2013, though - once you get into a hole like that, you aren't going to get out of it. This is the logic people were using that season @ 0-3, 0-4... 0-5.....
The Giants aren't good enough to dig out of holes like that.
For this team coming off last season, this is absolutely a must-win.
In case you haven't followed the NFL recently, there isn't any tanking and rebuilding. Heck, look at the Cardinals. Are they in "win now" mode by playing Bradford, or since they drafted Rosen, they've decided to rebuild?
Teams build on the fly, and have been doing so since shortly after the salary cap was instituted.
The Cardinals, Eagles, Jets, etc are made aggressive moves to secure QBs. We chose to go in a different avenue so there is major pressure to win.
Using the logic many are making about not selecting a QB, then Philly was technically rebuilding by selecting Wentz.
Yet, they won a SB and had the roster composition of being able to still field a team with dominant lines.
Going a different direction doesn't change the "win now" ridiculous narrative. It is just a different philosophy on team building.
I actually see a similar game to Jax, have to stop a very good running game and they have to run the ball. DAL will attack Flowers and that can wreck the game for the Giants. But Jax is better than Dallas.
Giants should win this game. If not I see it starting to unravel.
because we are at best middle of the road team with little to no chance at Super Bowl.. Our OL on the right side is pathetic... It wasn't just the Jags Dline.. these players are bad and shouldn't really be starting for any team in the league.. this was at least a 2 year job to fix the OL and with our QB playing average at best, our LBs being suspect and many other holes on this team.. I think we are at least a year away from truly competing... so its important to win the next game but in the grand scheme of things we are still re-building..
Using the logic many are making about not selecting a QB, then Philly was technically rebuilding by selecting Wentz.
Yet, they won a SB and had the roster composition of being able to still field a team with dominant lines.
Going a different direction doesn't change the "win now" ridiculous narrative. It is just a different philosophy on team building.
Philly had a rebuilding year in 2016 as they went through the growing pains with Wentz.
But come on. Enough of this 'I'm going to sit back and let the entire season play out' crap. Someone just posted the Giants have started four of the past five seasons 0-2 (or worse). How TF has this been working out for us? Pretty shitty if you ask me.
3-13 last year. This team needs to start fk'n winning some games NOW because it isn't getting any easier @Hou and home Saints. What will this crowd say after a 0-4 start? 'Tis merely a flesh wound?!?! Wait. I know. It's still not over because the 1992 Chargers started 0-4 and made the playoffs.
I get it. The season isn't over until the Giants are mathematically eliminated. But who honestly thinks that is a good thing? Seriously. That sucks. Losing control of your destiny sucks. Tiebreakers suck. How about some prosperity for a change? How about playing with a lead? How about not scraping by in the hopes that we will have a repeat of 2007 (as if that happens in the NFL every year)?
What message do you think Shurmur is giving the team today? It's not a must win. The season won't be over. 2007. The 1992 Chargers. Here's a box of fk'n steak knives.
Maybe it doesn't matter whether the Giants win or lose. Maybe they simply suck and won't make the playoffs for the X number of times in X + 1 years. In this case, none of the games are must-wins, we just don't know it yet.
This IS a must win unless, in the end, it doesn't matter after all.
because we are at best middle of the road team with little to no chance at Super Bowl.. Our OL on the right side is pathetic... It wasn't just the Jags Dline.. these players are bad and shouldn't really be starting for any team in the league.. this was at least a 2 year job to fix the OL and with our QB playing average at best, our LBs being suspect and many other holes on this team.. I think we are at least a year away from truly competing... so its important to win the next game but in the grand scheme of things we are still re-building..
By "compete," I mean actually be in the mix for a playoff spot still when Thanksgiving rolls around.
I think the Giants can accomplish that without being a SB contender.
I've said many times that I think we are another offseason away - we still need to address the OL a bit more, the DB depth needs some work and there are a few other small holes.
I think this can be a 7-9 win team depending on health, etc.
But this doesn't need to be a repeat of last year. This team should be a lot less dysfunctional and a bit more competitive.
Not even going to get into the rest of the schedule, but the media will be coming in HOT and heavy if the Giants start 0-2 again. Questions everywhere. I don't care who you are, nobody wants to have to go through that.
This team needs to learn what it feels like to get a big W again. Losing breeds losing, and we need to get one in the other column in the worst way Sunday. I know the same can be said about the Cowboys, but I truly feel like we are the more talented and better coached team.
Not even going to get into the rest of the schedule, but the media will be coming in HOT and heavy if the Giants start 0-2 again. Questions everywhere. I don't care who you are, nobody wants to have to go through that.
This team needs to learn what it feels like to get a big W again. Losing breeds losing, and we need to get one in the other column in the worst way Sunday. I know the same can be said about the Cowboys, but I truly feel like we are the more talented and better coached team.
I don't think it's foolish at all. 0-2 can become 0-3 @Hou vs. Deshaun Watson and JJ Watt very quickly and 0-3 can become 0-4 vs. the Saints and Drew Brees and Alvin Kamara.
Again, maybe this team isn't going anywhere and many fans will lose interest long before January arrives. But if this team wants to go to the playoffs, it's go time.
This is basically the same thing we say every year lol
And, consistent with the odds, Giants did NOT make the playoffs in any of the years they started 0-2.
And, consistent with the odds, if they start 0-2 this year, they are, statistically speaking, tremendous long shots to make the playoffs.
So true.
When you are say, 2-10 like the Giants were in 2017, the term "must win" isn't used.
Dallas looked like crap and if we can't for once (in a long time) stomp a bad team then things are only going to get worse.
It is amazing sometimes how quickly a team can spiral down (or up) depending on the moral in the locker room.
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You need to get to 9-10 wins and to make the playoffs, so the must wins start when losses hit 6. I think though that Dallas is ripe for the picking here. Eli has always played decently in Dallas as well. A loss here would really sting.
It's like 2013, though - once you get into a hole like that, you aren't going to get out of it. This is the logic people were using that season @ 0-3, 0-4... 0-5.....
The Giants aren't good enough to dig out of holes like that.
And what happens when you get to 0-2, 0-3, 0-4 you can see in the play on the field where guys are playing tight and expecting disaster to strike at any moment. All of these games to me are interconnected. Confidence is not week to week.
For me, the way they lose Sunday would be something to watch for.
If both the Giants and Cowboys play clean games on both sides and you lose by the FG, then maybe you can project good things ahead.
However....if Sunday we see some of the same patterns from the past developing again that we have seen in prior years and last week (dropped passes, poor o-line play) leading to a convincing defeat similar to what happened last year down there on Opening Day, then go ahead and throw in the towel, because incredibly poor one-on-one blocking never improves itself. You either can straight up block your man or you can't.
The o-line cannot wreck the season again before October.
A team like this needs a confidence building win against a division rival in the worst way. It's the type of thing they can reach back to and use as a building block. Another loss, and everyone starts looking around the room saying "man, this is going to be another long year, isn't it..."
We can't have that happen. It will be very, very hard to draw moral victories out of this if we ultimately lose. This is a hugely important game. I really can't overstate it.
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and if so what do they mean by compete?
because we are at best middle of the road team with little to no chance at Super Bowl.. Our OL on the right side is pathetic... It wasn't just the Jags Dline.. these players are bad and shouldn't really be starting for any team in the league.. this was at least a 2 year job to fix the OL and with our QB playing average at best, our LBs being suspect and many other holes on this team.. I think we are at least a year away from truly competing... so its important to win the next game but in the grand scheme of things we are still re-building..
By "compete," I mean actually be in the mix for a playoff spot still when Thanksgiving rolls around.
I think the Giants can accomplish that without being a SB contender.
I've said many times that I think we are another offseason away - we still need to address the OL a bit more, the DB depth needs some work and there are a few other small holes.
I think this can be a 7-9 win team depending on health, etc.
But this doesn't need to be a repeat of last year. This team should be a lot less dysfunctional and a bit more competitive.
+1
- We are a bottom barrel team if we lose?
- If this is supposed to be a playoff team, you have to win this one?
- Giants have to win this game or things could get ugly?
- If they start 0-2 this year, they are tremendous long shots to make the playoffs?
You guys kill me.
This team is literally trying to figure out how to block guys without sticking their legs out, catch balls that hit them in their hands and score more than 1 TD per game.
wake up folks...
- We are a bottom barrel team if we lose?
- If this is supposed to be a playoff team, you have to win this one?
- Giants have to win this game or things could get ugly?
- If they start 0-2 this year, they are tremendous long shots to make the playoffs?
You guys kill me.
This team is literally trying to figure out how to block guys without sticking their legs out, catch balls that hit them in their hands and score more than 1 TD per game.
wake up folks...
So it doesn't matter because they already suck. Got it, it would be a lot less stressful for me to watch if I could have that mentality. I just can't, though. I know I'm delusional but I would like to see them win for once.
God that team sucks.
- We are a bottom barrel team if we lose?
- If this is supposed to be a playoff team, you have to win this one?
- Giants have to win this game or things could get ugly?
- If they start 0-2 this year, they are tremendous long shots to make the playoffs?
You guys kill me.
This team is literally trying to figure out how to block guys without sticking their legs out, catch balls that hit them in their hands and score more than 1 TD per game.
wake up folks...
We lost by one score to a team that was a game away from the Super Bowl last year.
Let's not make it sound like the Giants didn't even belong on a football field (which you are doing here...)
Last year's opener was FAR worse than this.
And this spiraling out of control and unraveling if they lose implies Shurmer has lost the team after 2 games.
Sorry - not buying it.
And this spiraling out of control and unraveling if they lose implies Shurmer has lost the team after 2 games.
Sorry - not buying it.
You don't have to buy it - but if you think the Giants are built to get back into contention after an 0-2 start, I'm not sure what to tell you. Just go and look at how this team fared the last handful of times they started that way.
2007 was over a decade ago now.
You don't have to buy it - but if you think the Giants are built to get back into contention after an 0-2 start, I'm not sure what to tell you.
who thinks they are built to do anything remotely close to this anyway?
Well, what did they do in 2015 when Tom Coughlin was still the coach and they started 0-2?
6-10.
The time before that?
6-10.
The time before that?
7-9.
So, I'm not sure Ben McAdoo is the guy to blame.... as much as I'd love to.
Agree that if the Giants drop this one they will drop the road game against the other Texas team and this season will be over before Halloween as OP said.
If you want the Giants to have a competitive season that keeps us interested through December, this is a must win game.
I hope the staff does not allow the o line to fuck another season. If Flowers sucks early , which he will, put in backup. This game is the season. All hands on deck and game should be coached with a desperate need to win.
Agree that if the Giants drop this one they will drop the road game against the other Texas team and this season will be over before Halloween as OP said.
If you want the Giants to have a competitive season that keeps us interested through December, this is a must win game.
I hope the staff does not allow the o line to fuck another season. If Flowers sucks early , which he will, put in backup. This game is the season. All hands on deck and game should be coached with a desperate need to win.
I agree 100% with this. If we want a year where we're not discussing next year's draft in Oct, they need to win this game
Instead of talking about his as a must win game, I think it is better to say that this week will be a good barometer of where this team is. A win shows they can beat the lesser teams and hopefully be competitive. A loss likely means they are one of the weaker teams.
There is so much parity in the NFL that what separates the bad from average teams that almost nothing in the early season is "must win."
Instead of talking about his as a must win game, I think it is better to say that this week will be a good barometer of where this team is. A win shows they can beat the lesser teams and hopefully be competitive. A loss likely means they are one of the weaker teams.
There is so much parity in the NFL that what separates the bad from average teams that almost nothing in the early season is "must win."
No, I won't stop watching, and obviously it's impossible to be eliminated 2 games in - but I'll be fairly convinced that this season will never even get to an "interesting" point if we lose again on Sunday. I think we'll be out of the playoff race entirely by the end of October.
If we win, I think well build off it.
Certain games are crossroads. And I don't think Week 2 is too early for this team to be at one based on what we've seen in recent years.
I think Giant fans lose interest big time for this season if we lose to Dallas. Though not convinced the team collapses if we lose in terms of effort. I think the culture of the team is starting to change and Shurmur is a class above McAdoo.
Their offense is so bad every player on it should get parking handicap license plates. They are that physically challenged. Completely inept. If we can just get to 17 points, we should win very comfortably.
- We are a bottom barrel team if we lose?
- If this is supposed to be a playoff team, you have to win this one?
- Giants have to win this game or things could get ugly?
- If they start 0-2 this year, they are tremendous long shots to make the playoffs?
You guys kill me.
This team is literally trying to figure out how to block guys without sticking their legs out, catch balls that hit them in their hands and score more than 1 TD per game.
wake up folks...
I don't think anyone expects a SB this year... it's only how long will the team be relevant in the run for a playoff spot... and if they go 0-2 those odds become prohibitively against. I suppose your point is that you believe those odds to be prohibitively against before the first game was even played ... and that may be true ... but the odds were probably better than the 88% against they would be once they went 0-2
One thing I do know is what my expectations are - I expect to compete at minimum for the division this year. I expect to be in the playoffs. We passed on opportunities to build for the future so we can compete now. So compete.
One thing I do know is what my expectations are - I expect to compete at minimum for the division this year. I expect to be in the playoffs. We passed on opportunities to build for the future so we can compete now. So compete.
What if we dont though? What if we are looking at 1-7 at the bye? Look at the upcoming schedule. Then what?
Ownership has backed itself in a corner if this team doesnt win. Im horrified Gettleman will overreach for a QB next year under this scenario where Darnold checked off all boxes for NYG franchise QB, perfect transition from Eli. I think this is a really troubling proposition.
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They could always turn around and win the next 14.
One thing I do know is what my expectations are - I expect to compete at minimum for the division this year. I expect to be in the playoffs. We passed on opportunities to build for the future so we can compete now. So compete.
What if we dont though? What if we are looking at 1-7 at the bye? Look at the upcoming schedule. Then what?
Ownership has backed itself in a corner if this team doesnt win. Im horrified Gettleman will overreach for a QB next year under this scenario where Darnold checked off all boxes for NYG franchise QB, perfect transition from Eli. I think this is a really troubling proposition.
Gettleman is not the type to overreach for a QB, he's said as much.
And Darnold didn't check off all the boxes for the NYG. The front office disagreed about which QB was the top QB in this draft.
But since Darnold beat the Lions, he's a franchise QB.
They will have a young RB to build with and a couple top talents to catch the ball.
If they have to part ways with Eli, they can, and they can release or restructure some of the poor contracts. Most of the contracts out there can be terminated without a ton of dead money.
I don't think it will come to that, but they could reasonably turn over a fair share of the roster next year (like they did this year) and still compete.