I loved the comment on twitter - 'that was such a game of almosts'.
I wondered the same about Ellison during the game. Given the fact that they had struggles blocking, why he wasn't in more for Engram, but I guess against that secondary it would just have them tee off on the run more.
That is very true and the stark difference to the McAdoo Giants.
Shurmur had the team in position to win that game a few different ways. They had plenty of opportunities. The players need to finish, but the Giants strategically should have won that game if they executed and that is a major swing!
Dan is ok,
Just kidding I am his co-host nick from Big Blue Banter. Loved the vision and contact balance here, he can make guys miss from any angle
Your podcast is incredible. I wish it was daily!!! I have been telling every single fan I know to check out your podcast. The content, the pace and the quality of the show is just excellent. I assume one is coming out today or tomorrow. I’ve been wearing out the refresh button lol. . Can’t wait and please pass my sentiments along to Dan.
That is very true and the stark difference to the McAdoo Giants.
Shurmur had the team in position to win that game a few different ways. They had plenty of opportunities. The players need to finish, but the Giants strategically should have won that game if they executed and that is a major swing!
Actually it's very much the same as what we saw at the end of TC's tenure and McAdoo's first year. Games with a razor thin margin of victory either secured by timely, well executed plays or lost on the back of a few missed plays.
Was matched up with Jack coming out of the slot, and would have been a TD. And Eli with plenty of time and a clean pocket took the check down throw. Stomach turning. Starting to think Eli might be a bigger issue than we all think
posting clips and gifs is that these plays are happening way faster in real time than what it appears in a gif or in a screenshot. Eli goes through multiple reads during a play. The Beckham play where he was matched up in the slot might not have been the initial read.
The overthrow to Beckham in the end zone was the killer. That's an actual play where you can say "OK, that was on Eli"
posting clips and gifs is that these plays are happening way faster in real time than what it appears in a gif or in a screenshot. Eli goes through multiple reads during a play. The Beckham play where he was matched up in the slot might not have been the initial read.
The overthrow to Beckham in the end zone was the killer. That's an actual play where you can say "OK, that was on Eli"
Watch the play again, definitely NOT an overthrow, Church gets away with an IC at the 10 yard line or it would have been a TD. Ball was perfectly thrown!
That is very true and the stark difference to the McAdoo Giants.
Shurmur had the team in position to win that game a few different ways. They had plenty of opportunities. The players need to finish, but the Giants strategically should have won that game if they executed and that is a major swing!
Can't agree with that, looked like the SOS with the Offense with the exception of Barkley. Don't forget in the first half with Fournette Jax did not punt, in the 2nd half without Fournette punted every time. So if Fournette doesn't go down Jax probably wins handily. Sorry to be a pessimist but unless this O-line improves drastically it could be a long year (again)!
Dan is ok,
Just kidding I am his co-host nick from Big Blue Banter. Loved the vision and contact balance here, he can make guys miss from any angle
Your podcast is incredible. I wish it was daily!!! I have been telling every single fan I know to check out your podcast. The content, the pace and the quality of the show is just excellent. I assume one is coming out today or tomorrow. I’ve been wearing out the refresh button lol. . Can’t wait and please pass my sentiments along to Dan.
Really appreciate that, will do. and yes we are recording later today
posting clips and gifs is that these plays are happening way faster in real time than what it appears in a gif or in a screenshot. Eli goes through multiple reads during a play. The Beckham play where he was matched up in the slot might not have been the initial read.
The overthrow to Beckham in the end zone was the killer. That's an actual play where you can say "OK, that was on Eli"
Agree, GIFs are lazy, I do cut ups from all-22 mostly. Its the only way to really get to the bottom of it
That is very true and the stark difference to the McAdoo Giants.
Shurmur had the team in position to win that game a few different ways. They had plenty of opportunities. The players need to finish, but the Giants strategically should have won that game if they executed and that is a major swing!
Can't agree with that, looked like the SOS with the Offense with the exception of Barkley. Don't forget in the first half with Fournette Jax did not punt, in the 2nd half without Fournette punted every time. So if Fournette doesn't go down Jax probably wins handily. Sorry to be a pessimist but unless this O-line improves drastically it could be a long year (again)!
You have absolutely no idea what would have happened with Fournette but prefer to take the negative route as this whole board has been doing. It's extremely old. What if we had Vernon in the game? The guy replacing him had the best drive of the game in the first half. How the fuck do you know what would have happened in the second half with Fournette? You have no way of knowing it. Maybe if we had Vernon we'd win. But you prefer to take the "Giants are trash" take. Why be a fan at this point?
with the Dallas OL and Elliott. I'm pretty sure there are dozens and dozens of these plays every week across the league. It's hard to block all 11 that's why there aren't many long TD runs.
Dan is ok,
Just kidding I am his co-host nick from Big Blue Banter. Loved the vision and contact balance here, he can make guys miss from any angle
Your podcast is incredible. I wish it was daily!!! I have been telling every single fan I know to check out your podcast. The content, the pace and the quality of the show is just excellent. I assume one is coming out today or tomorrow. I’ve been wearing out the refresh button lol. . Can’t wait and please pass my sentiments along to Dan.
+1
Its great. Thanks for putting out quality content
Dan Schneier has become a must-follow on Twitter Â
I saw an interview with Joe Thomas a couple of years ago. He said yards per carry does not matter. Its run efficiency. Percent of the time you do one of these
1. gain at least 4 yards
2. first down
3. score a touchdown
Coaches like to see 60% run efficiency. We were at like 20% in the game.
That is very true and the stark difference to the McAdoo Giants.
Shurmur had the team in position to win that game a few different ways. They had plenty of opportunities. The players need to finish, but the Giants strategically should have won that game if they executed and that is a major swing!
Can't agree with that, looked like the SOS with the Offense with the exception of Barkley. Don't forget in the first half with Fournette Jax did not punt, in the 2nd half without Fournette punted every time. So if Fournette doesn't go down Jax probably wins handily. Sorry to be a pessimist but unless this O-line improves drastically it could be a long year (again)!
The TD drive by the Jags actually happened after Fournette got hurt. The Giants had trouble adjusting to the Jags offense immediately after he was not in the game. Seems like they had contained Fournette fairly well. I'm not convinced that Fournette would have meant they would have run away with the game.
Was matched up with Jack coming out of the slot, and would have been a TD. And Eli with plenty of time and a clean pocket took the check down throw. Stomach turning. Starting to think Eli might be a bigger issue than we all think
I disagree with this. Generally, I don't find that Ranaan breaks down the Giants well.
Here's my take and I'm open to reconsider
As soon as the ball is hiked, Eli looks towards Beckham and sees that Jack is on him and the high safety is cheating towards Beckham. It's hard to say at that point whether there would be a chance for Eli to drop it in.
So why didn't Eli wait a little bit longer to determine this when he had a clear pocket? Barkley's route dictated that Eli threw the ball to him when he did because the nearside linebacker was starting to break on him, and the far side linebacker already passed the TE (Ellison?) off to the secondary and was no focused on Barkley as well.
Eli chose to immediately get it to Barkley while he had a maximum amount of open field to catch and run.
Ranaan likes to stir shit up. Re Eli he had his share of mental errors Â
but mostly played well and was an overall positive in the game. I don't think it's a coincidence that he started out strong in what was likely the scripted portion of the gameplan and then had more issues once they started opening up the playbook. I think it's fair to criticize his lack of audible on the 2nd & 4 goaline play to beckham with 1on1 and separately the inverse decision he made to go back to Barkley on the 2PT try when he was likely gassed from the TD run. I'd expect him to get better with those types of decisions as the season goes on and he gets more comfortable in knowing what the offense does best. The slight over/under throws seem pretty normal for a first game in non ideal weather conditions considering those aren't new issues for him - he has always been a little inconsistent with his placement. His throwing velocity actually seemed better than it did last year.
Whether or not the errors continue against lesser defenses in non-wet conditions will determine whether it's anything more than first game rust - but that's why nobody wins or loses the super bowl in week 1.
I think it's fair to criticize his lack of audible on the 2nd & 4 goaline play to beckham with 1on1 and separately the inverse decision he made to go back to Barkley on the 2PT try when he was likely gassed from the TD run.
Do we even know what his options are in terms of calling audibles at this point? Does Shurmur (Shula?) send in a group of plays, including audibles, that Eli isn't supposed to deviate from on a given play? Does he have free reign to audible to anything that fits the personnel grouping? Something in between?
It's a fair question, and Eli definitely should have audibled to different plays if he has the freedom to create those matchups. If he's given some kind of strict package or limitations and none of them included those selected options, it's not really that fair a criticism. Does anyone know what Shurmur's philosophy is on audibles?
Was matched up with Jack coming out of the slot, and would have been a TD. And Eli with plenty of time and a clean pocket took the check down throw. Stomach turning. Starting to think Eli might be a bigger issue than we all think
Have you not learned that things aren't always as they seem, especially on the football field?
When you have the benefit of watching it on tape rather than being in the moment. There's something to be learned from watching a game this way, but I'm not sure I agree with some of the conclusions and judgements being made here.
links, but there is a Vikings fan who used to show plays where Rodgers missed open WR's by throwing it elsewhere to tweak Packer fans.
They rightfully called him out as a moron.
Which is basically what Raanaan has become.
I've never agreed with that kind of analysis. There's simply too much we don't know as people who aren't connected to the team or coaching staff. We don't know what the progression is, we don't know the route options, protection calls, or really anything else about the anatomy of a play. Sure, Odell could be streaking wide open down the sideline, but he could also be the 4th read and maybe Engram is open on a 5 yard out as the 1st read. Maybe Eli wrote Odell off because he was supposed to run a stop. Maybe there wasn't an option for Eli to audible to where Beckham is running the slant in the endzone. You could argue that Odell should never be the 4th read on any play or that Eli should always have that option and you would be right. As a coach, I want my players running the play correctly as devised every single time and I'm sure Shurmur feels the same.
I wondered the same about Ellison during the game. Given the fact that they had struggles blocking, why he wasn't in more for Engram, but I guess against that secondary it would just have them tee off on the run more.
Just kidding I am his co-host nick from Big Blue Banter. Loved the vision and contact balance here, he can make guys miss from any angle
and on the sweep, i didnt realize it was the far defensive end that made the play
Shurmur had the team in position to win that game a few different ways. They had plenty of opportunities. The players need to finish, but the Giants strategically should have won that game if they executed and that is a major swing!
Just kidding I am his co-host nick from Big Blue Banter. Loved the vision and contact balance here, he can make guys miss from any angle
Your podcast is incredible. I wish it was daily!!! I have been telling every single fan I know to check out your podcast. The content, the pace and the quality of the show is just excellent. I assume one is coming out today or tomorrow. I’ve been wearing out the refresh button lol. . Can’t wait and please pass my sentiments along to Dan.
Shurmur had the team in position to win that game a few different ways. They had plenty of opportunities. The players need to finish, but the Giants strategically should have won that game if they executed and that is a major swing!
Actually it's very much the same as what we saw at the end of TC's tenure and McAdoo's first year. Games with a razor thin margin of victory either secured by timely, well executed plays or lost on the back of a few missed plays.
The overthrow to Beckham in the end zone was the killer. That's an actual play where you can say "OK, that was on Eli"
The overthrow to Beckham in the end zone was the killer. That's an actual play where you can say "OK, that was on Eli"
Watch the play again, definitely NOT an overthrow, Church gets away with an IC at the 10 yard line or it would have been a TD. Ball was perfectly thrown!
Shurmur had the team in position to win that game a few different ways. They had plenty of opportunities. The players need to finish, but the Giants strategically should have won that game if they executed and that is a major swing!
Can't agree with that, looked like the SOS with the Offense with the exception of Barkley. Don't forget in the first half with Fournette Jax did not punt, in the 2nd half without Fournette punted every time. So if Fournette doesn't go down Jax probably wins handily. Sorry to be a pessimist but unless this O-line improves drastically it could be a long year (again)!
Quote:
Dan is ok,
Just kidding I am his co-host nick from Big Blue Banter. Loved the vision and contact balance here, he can make guys miss from any angle
Your podcast is incredible. I wish it was daily!!! I have been telling every single fan I know to check out your podcast. The content, the pace and the quality of the show is just excellent. I assume one is coming out today or tomorrow. I’ve been wearing out the refresh button lol. . Can’t wait and please pass my sentiments along to Dan.
Really appreciate that, will do. and yes we are recording later today
The overthrow to Beckham in the end zone was the killer. That's an actual play where you can say "OK, that was on Eli"
Agree, GIFs are lazy, I do cut ups from all-22 mostly. Its the only way to really get to the bottom of it
Quote:
That is very true and the stark difference to the McAdoo Giants.
Shurmur had the team in position to win that game a few different ways. They had plenty of opportunities. The players need to finish, but the Giants strategically should have won that game if they executed and that is a major swing!
Can't agree with that, looked like the SOS with the Offense with the exception of Barkley. Don't forget in the first half with Fournette Jax did not punt, in the 2nd half without Fournette punted every time. So if Fournette doesn't go down Jax probably wins handily. Sorry to be a pessimist but unless this O-line improves drastically it could be a long year (again)!
You have absolutely no idea what would have happened with Fournette but prefer to take the negative route as this whole board has been doing. It's extremely old. What if we had Vernon in the game? The guy replacing him had the best drive of the game in the first half. How the fuck do you know what would have happened in the second half with Fournette? You have no way of knowing it. Maybe if we had Vernon we'd win. But you prefer to take the "Giants are trash" take. Why be a fan at this point?
Quote:
Dan is ok,
Just kidding I am his co-host nick from Big Blue Banter. Loved the vision and contact balance here, he can make guys miss from any angle
Your podcast is incredible. I wish it was daily!!! I have been telling every single fan I know to check out your podcast. The content, the pace and the quality of the show is just excellent. I assume one is coming out today or tomorrow. I’ve been wearing out the refresh button lol. . Can’t wait and please pass my sentiments along to Dan.
+1
Its great. Thanks for putting out quality content
1. gain at least 4 yards
2. first down
3. score a touchdown
Coaches like to see 60% run efficiency. We were at like 20% in the game.
Quote:
That is very true and the stark difference to the McAdoo Giants.
Shurmur had the team in position to win that game a few different ways. They had plenty of opportunities. The players need to finish, but the Giants strategically should have won that game if they executed and that is a major swing!
Can't agree with that, looked like the SOS with the Offense with the exception of Barkley. Don't forget in the first half with Fournette Jax did not punt, in the 2nd half without Fournette punted every time. So if Fournette doesn't go down Jax probably wins handily. Sorry to be a pessimist but unless this O-line improves drastically it could be a long year (again)!
The TD drive by the Jags actually happened after Fournette got hurt. The Giants had trouble adjusting to the Jags offense immediately after he was not in the game. Seems like they had contained Fournette fairly well. I'm not convinced that Fournette would have meant they would have run away with the game.
I disagree with this. Generally, I don't find that Ranaan breaks down the Giants well.
Here's my take and I'm open to reconsider
As soon as the ball is hiked, Eli looks towards Beckham and sees that Jack is on him and the high safety is cheating towards Beckham. It's hard to say at that point whether there would be a chance for Eli to drop it in.
So why didn't Eli wait a little bit longer to determine this when he had a clear pocket? Barkley's route dictated that Eli threw the ball to him when he did because the nearside linebacker was starting to break on him, and the far side linebacker already passed the TE (Ellison?) off to the secondary and was no focused on Barkley as well.
Eli chose to immediately get it to Barkley while he had a maximum amount of open field to catch and run.
Whether or not the errors continue against lesser defenses in non-wet conditions will determine whether it's anything more than first game rust - but that's why nobody wins or loses the super bowl in week 1.
Have the RB up close, if it's a pass option, RB is quicker to pass pro.
If it's a run, rb is quicker to gap.
If RB us close, does that pull a lb or safety even closer to the line? If so, that's a roll out pass play maybe.
Especially with regards to first and goal stuff. Having the option to call QB under center with RB in close might be worthwhile from time to time.
Do we even know what his options are in terms of calling audibles at this point? Does Shurmur (Shula?) send in a group of plays, including audibles, that Eli isn't supposed to deviate from on a given play? Does he have free reign to audible to anything that fits the personnel grouping? Something in between?
It's a fair question, and Eli definitely should have audibled to different plays if he has the freedom to create those matchups. If he's given some kind of strict package or limitations and none of them included those selected options, it's not really that fair a criticism. Does anyone know what Shurmur's philosophy is on audibles?
Have you not learned that things aren't always as they seem, especially on the football field?
Have the RB up close, if it's a pass option, RB is quicker to pass pro.
If it's a run, rb is quicker to gap.
If RB us close, does that pull a lb or safety even closer to the line? If so, that's a roll out pass play maybe.
Especially with regards to first and goal stuff. Having the option to call QB under center with RB in close might be worthwhile from time to time.
Think you want the RB deep for a couple reasons, first to gain momentum...secondly, to probably read the blocks.
In pass pro, I guess it makes sense but it also tips off what you're doing.
They rightfully called him out as a moron.
Which is basically what Raanaan has become.
They rightfully called him out as a moron.
Which is basically what Raanaan has become.
I've never agreed with that kind of analysis. There's simply too much we don't know as people who aren't connected to the team or coaching staff. We don't know what the progression is, we don't know the route options, protection calls, or really anything else about the anatomy of a play. Sure, Odell could be streaking wide open down the sideline, but he could also be the 4th read and maybe Engram is open on a 5 yard out as the 1st read. Maybe Eli wrote Odell off because he was supposed to run a stop. Maybe there wasn't an option for Eli to audible to where Beckham is running the slant in the endzone. You could argue that Odell should never be the 4th read on any play or that Eli should always have that option and you would be right. As a coach, I want my players running the play correctly as devised every single time and I'm sure Shurmur feels the same.