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I am curious to see how the New England O-line holds

wgenesis123 : 9/13/2018 5:40 am
up against Jacksonville this week. Not sure you can fairly compare it to what the Giants o-line did this past week. I am wondering though if our o-line is better than it looked week one. Jacksonville was a tough draw for a rebuilt O-line in week one. Any thoughts on this?
Last year I think Eli gets sacked like 10 times against  
wgenesis123 : 9/13/2018 5:46 am : link
Jacksonville. The O-line is better than last year in my opinion.
But just not "good enough"  
NYRiese : 9/13/2018 6:15 am : link
...an elusive state of competancy.
The Giant OL was most responsible for this loss....  
Doomster : 9/13/2018 6:30 am : link
On the Patriot OL, four of the five starters, are all Patriot draft picks....the one that isn't is from SF, Trent Brown....

They traded a third round pick and got a starting LT plus a fifth round pick.....

Solder is getting 22M this year, his replacement, Brown, is getting 1.9M....

Wonder why the Pats are always near the top?
Something tells me  
UConn4523 : 9/13/2018 6:44 am : link
Brady and B.B. have a lot to do with why they are always on top but what do I know.
I'm very interesting in that game as well  
USAF NYG Fan : 9/13/2018 6:57 am : link
Jaguars were the #1 rated pass defense last year and only allowed an average of 169.9 yards a game. After the first game this year they start off in 11th allowing 211 yards last Sunday against our Giants' offense.

Did Jaguars take a step back or is our offense better than we currently think it is? How would things be different if our offense had more time together to understand a new offense before facing the Jaguars? How about our new OL getting more time to gel?

We seem to forget this is a new offense with a new OL. Also, I've noticed since the last CBA that every teams' offense plays poorly to start the season. The play is more sloppy. Doesn't appear to affect defenses though. I think that played a part in this as well.

So yes. I am very interested in the Jags vs Pats game.

Side note: Another thing I noticed is that Eli connected with OBJ for 11 receptions. That's the 2nd highest among receivers. Again, against the best pass defense in the league (IMHO). Should have been more considering the 2 PIs called. I'm not upset about those 2 misses as much as most others. Eli and OBJ need to get their timing down in this new offense. They haven't played together in almost a year.
This will be Jacksonville’s first home game of the year...  
bw in dc : 9/13/2018 7:10 am : link
It’s a revenge game. They know they let one slip away in that AFC Championship game. So they will be fired up. And it’s going to be hot.

Specifically to the question, New England has a new LT now that Solder left for the Giants - Trent Brown. Scarnecchia is very high on him, but he will be tested by this Jags dline is some tough conditions. Jags got to Brady threw times in that AFC Championship game and hit him a handful of other times. Fowler played in that game and was a beast, but is suspended for this game...So this is indeed a very interesting match up.

The problem for the Pats is they have a depleted receiving core. That’s going to play into Jacksonville’s hands. They may be able to double Gronk with Ramsey and safety help. And the Jags will still be more than comfortable feeling they can single cover Hogan and Dorsett. Plus, we know that the Jags have a lot of speed at linebacker to be effective when Brady goes to his RBs in the passing game.

All this lines up very well for the Jags. They should be able to get pressure naturally with their front four, but have more time to apply it with their advantage in the secondary.

So, yes, this is a very interesting game to see how the Pats oline holds up under these circumstances. I have a feeling this is going to be a big advantage for the Jags and Brady may have a long, long afternoon...



I'm not in total meltdown mode  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/13/2018 7:13 am : link
Like many BBIers on Elis "overthrow" of OBJ for TD. They just didn't read each others mind in an atypical route/position deep.
RE: The Giant OL was most responsible for this loss....  
jcn56 : 9/13/2018 7:32 am : link
In comment 14073389 Doomster said:
Quote:
On the Patriot OL, four of the five starters, are all Patriot draft picks....the one that isn't is from SF, Trent Brown....

They traded a third round pick and got a starting LT plus a fifth round pick.....

Solder is getting 22M this year, his replacement, Brown, is getting 1.9M....

Wonder why the Pats are always near the top?


Coaching - Scarneccia (spelling?) is really damn good at what he does, and it shows.

They lost Solder and didn't miss a beat against the Texans.
This week will be very telling ......  
George from PA : 9/13/2018 7:36 am : link
If Jacksonville is truly the top defense and the Giants beat dallas....

I will feel hopeful.

If they lose.....i do not see a win for awhile ....
Coughlin said it best  
BlueHurricane : 9/13/2018 7:38 am : link
In today's NFL you really do not know what you have until game 4. Lets see what corrections our team makes this week. Playing that D last week is going to wind up being a positive. I do believe our line will continue to improve and the staff will figure out how to help Flowers.
So let me see if I understand  
joeinpa : 9/13/2018 7:42 am : link


It s ok that the Giants O line stunk on Sunday, if indeed it turns out to be that Jacksonville s defense is really good.

Yikes, what a low standard we have set. What don t you guys understand about the fact that the Giants were ALL in on winning now.
bw -  
Diver_Down : 9/13/2018 7:52 am : link
Fowler has served his 1 game suspension. They will have all hands on deck. Also, the home field is definitely a benefit. The visitor's sideline is always in the sun. By mid-afternoon, the upper levels provide shade for the home team only. Also, despite building an indoor practice facility, they still practiced outside all summer long. Tom patrolling the field with his wide-brimmed bucket hat and long-sleeve black shirt in the afternoon heat. The guy wasn't taking any breaks and had his team in full pads in the heat of the day. He didn't schedule the padded practices early in the morning when it is cooler or in the late evening when the heat of the day passes. He had them in the peak heat of the day. They are a better conditioned team for it. Coming up to Jersey with a light rain was like a spring picnic compared to what they endured in training camp. Gronk and company will tapping into IVs to combat the heat.
RE: So let me see if I understand  
USAF NYG Fan : 9/13/2018 7:56 am : link
In comment 14073402 joeinpa said:
Quote:


It s ok that the Giants O line stunk on Sunday, if indeed it turns out to be that Jacksonville s defense is really good.

Yikes, what a low standard we have set. What don t you guys understand about the fact that the Giants were ALL in on winning now.

You think that because you are stuck in the concept that they are "all in" on winning now. I'm not sure how a brand new offense, a brand new defense, a brand new coaching staff, and changing about half the roster could ever be construed as "win now".
Giants are in “get better” mode  
UConn4523 : 9/13/2018 8:13 am : link
I don’t get these dumb labels but if I had to choose one it’s that. And they will always be in that mode until they cut Eli and move forward with a draft pick.

“Win now” gets easily confused with trying to improve your team which is what virtually every team tries to do in the offseason.
I don't get the "we got beat by a good team" stuff.  
fivehead : 9/13/2018 8:19 am : link
That's just giving in to defeat. Play hard and beat the good teams.
Jesus Christ..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/13/2018 8:25 am : link
are you going to post this every fucking week??

Quote:
What don t you guys understand about the fact that the Giants were ALL in on winning now.


You are obsessed with the concept of winning now. A concept that every team espouses.

It's ponderous at this point.

The Giants did about as massive of an overhaul as possible and posters are hung up on winning now vs. rebuilding.

Let me ask this - if we drafted Darnold and had the same pieces on the OL, a pedestrian RB and the same roster composition as today, you'd be fine wasting a year of Beckham's prime to develop a QB that may not even be the answer?

I'm pretty sure people would still be complaining about a week 1 loss.

This obsession about "win now" is fucking moronic.
RE: So let me see if I understand  
gmenatlarge : 9/13/2018 8:31 am : link
In comment 14073402 joeinpa said:
Quote:


It s ok that the Giants O line stunk on Sunday, if indeed it turns out to be that Jacksonville s defense is really good.

Yikes, what a low standard we have set. What don t you guys understand about the fact that the Giants were ALL in on winning now.


Agreed, the giants O-line is mostly responsible for the loss on Sunday and played poorly across the board. Houston's D-line is as good or better than Jax, yet the Pats handled them. This O-line needs to improve and in a hurry or it's going to be the SOS around here with a weak offense because they can't protect the QB.
I'm not curious at all  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/13/2018 8:46 am : link
We know Coughlins Jax D is jacked with all stars and no weaknesses, and Pats played them to a close one score game where the game was decided by a play or two, just like our game.
I would love to see Tom Brady play  
barens : 9/13/2018 9:06 am : link
against the Jags with Erick Flowers as his right tackle. Can we make that happen?
This is not the first year the Pats have lost Oline men. They go  
Blue21 : 9/13/2018 9:08 am : link
on and always find a replacement. No problem. That's why I don't understand with the different linemen and different coaches we have had our oline seem to always suck.
RE: This is not the first year the Pats have lost Oline men. They go  
gmenatlarge : 9/13/2018 10:12 am : link
In comment 14073486 Blue21 said:
Quote:
on and always find a replacement. No problem. That's why I don't understand with the different linemen and different coaches we have had our oline seem to always suck.


+1
Fatman  
joeinpa : 9/13/2018 10:21 am : link
You kind of post the same thing over and over as well.

And by the way, " Win now is not my mantra" it is the label every pundit put on the Giants with the moves they made and did not make.

Also pretty big leap to suggest Giants waste a year of Beckham s prime if Darnold was there.

What would he do, throw a pick six or over throw Beckham at a crucial juncture of game.

Your constant use of the word ponderous is ponderous as well.
That's..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/13/2018 10:28 am : link
bullshit. Not every pundit calls it a win-now move.

You are either in win-now or rebuilding.

Based on your response that Darnold would be just as good as Eli, then I'm assuming we wouldn't be "rebuilding" either. We would have a rookie QB and no Barkley, but I guess it doesn't matter if Eli throws pick 6's and overthrows WR's, right?

You wanted a QB. We didn't draft one, yet you are going to keep spewing bullshit all year. "Jets fans on Cloud 9". We are in "win now" mode.

Are you going to keep posting shit like that each week?

And while it may sound repetitive, it is exactly what I said - ponderous. Fucking ponderous from a guy who since the draft has called not drafted Darnold a mistake and hasn't stopped pointing it out.
RE: This is not the first year the Pats have lost Oline men. They go  
jcn56 : 9/13/2018 10:32 am : link
In comment 14073486 Blue21 said:
Quote:
on and always find a replacement. No problem. That's why I don't understand with the different linemen and different coaches we have had our oline seem to always suck.


See Belichick, Bill. The Pats are in a class of their own when it comes to coaching, and nobody else in the NFL is close.
RE: The Giant OL was most responsible for this loss....  
NINEster : 9/13/2018 10:34 am : link
In comment 14073389 Doomster said:
Quote:
On the Patriot OL, four of the five starters, are all Patriot draft picks....the one that isn't is from SF, Trent Brown....

They traded a third round pick and got a starting LT plus a fifth round pick.....

Solder is getting 22M this year, his replacement, Brown, is getting 1.9M....

Wonder why the Pats are always near the top?


Trent Brown is a really good pass protecting tackle. He used to train with Von Miller and Miller said he was the best RT in the league in pass protection.

SF let him go because Shanahan is particular with his OL, and Brown is not mobile enough to run block - a big deal for SF, not so for NE. Hence the 9th overall pick to replace him.

Partial repayment for Jimmy G.

Fatman  
joeinpa : 9/13/2018 11:09 am : link

If youu haven't heard the words "win now" in regard to the Giants from anyone but me, well I don t know what to say.

I have heard it on the FAN, NFL Radio, Fiox Sports Radio, ESPN and more.

By the way, did you just use "rebuild" in your post. I believe you told me teams don t rebuild anymore. Get your stories straight buddy.

Yes I m aggravated they didn t draft Darnold. I think they saw what they wanted to see because of their commitment to Eli.


It keeps coming up because people start posts that imply playing Jacksonville tough is something they get excited about,

It would be a totally different expectation if it were a young quarterback. If you can t see that, you re being stubborn

Also you have an annoying habit of name calling other posts that you don t agree with. My point is a valid point, not shit.

I believe chasing past glory is a poor way to run a franchise.

And ponderous or not I ll express that opinion whenever a post lends itself to that opinion

This is a place for Giants fans to vent I m not over what I believe was a major mistake, I m pissed



RE: Fatman  
Jay on the Island : 9/13/2018 11:14 am : link
In comment 14073714 joeinpa said:
Quote:



Yes I m aggravated they didn t draft Darnold. I think they saw what they wanted to see because of their commitment to Eli.


It keeps coming up because people start posts that imply playing Jacksonville tough is something they get excited about,

It would be a totally different expectation if it were a young quarterback. If you can t see that, you re being stubborn

So a 3-13 from last season goes head to head with one of the SB favorites and it's not worth getting excited about because they did it with a veteran QB and not a rookie QB?
Joe  
Jay on the Island : 9/13/2018 11:15 am : link
I wanted Darnold as badly as anyone here but the Giants didn't take him. I don't understand why some bring it up over and over again especially in threads that have nothing to do with it.
Oh they'll hold all right  
fanofthejets : 9/13/2018 11:18 am : link
But unlike the other 31, they won't get called for it.
RE: bw -  
bw in dc : 9/13/2018 11:24 am : link
In comment 14073411 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
Fowler has served his 1 game suspension. They will have all hands on deck. Also, the home field is definitely a benefit. The visitor's sideline is always in the sun. By mid-afternoon, the upper levels provide shade for the home team only. Also, despite building an indoor practice facility, they still practiced outside all summer long. Tom patrolling the field with his wide-brimmed bucket hat and long-sleeve black shirt in the afternoon heat. The guy wasn't taking any breaks and had his team in full pads in the heat of the day. He didn't schedule the padded practices early in the morning when it is cooler or in the late evening when the heat of the day passes. He had them in the peak heat of the day. They are a better conditioned team for it. Coming up to Jersey with a light rain was like a spring picnic compared to what they endured in training camp. Gronk and company will tapping into IVs to combat the heat.


Thanks for the correction on Fowler. That is significant.

Good points about the conditions. And if you know the Pats, they always have tough games in Miami - they usually win - dealing with those heavy conditions.

It really is a fascinating game. Pats may try to run a lot early, and a lot, to slow the game down so they have enough in the tank late...if needed.
I used the word..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/13/2018 11:27 am : link
"rebuild" to mock that you seemingly think that teams win-now or rebuild:

Quote:
By the way, did you just use "rebuild" in your post. I believe you told me teams don t rebuild anymore. Get your stories straight buddy.


My story has stayed the same consistently. Teams try to put their best team forward, no matter what. They have to because of the cap. A wasted year is wasting several players in their prime.

They change personnel on the fly. They develop some guys on different timelines, but they are always looking to win.

Even in the case that we drafted a QB, he'd be saddled with a terrible line, no RB and thin depth at CB still. Yet, we'd still try to win. As fans, our expectations should be that every year is a chance for the playoffs - and history proves that. Last year only 1 playoff team repeated from the year before in the NFL.

But for some reason you use almost every thread to tell the board we didn't draft Darnold like we don't fucking know. What is the point?

Your last response indicates that you'll keep telling us this.

Yippe-fucking-yay.
Fatman  
joeinpa : 9/13/2018 12:11 pm : link
Have you ever been aggravated about something that s hard to let go of. The quarterback situation has upset my fandom, not just for now but going forward.

I vent here, lots of guys vent here. I m not trying to be a PIA.

Have a good day, that s sincere, not snarky.
RE: RE: This is not the first year the Pats have lost Oline men. They go  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/13/2018 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14073654 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14073486 Blue21 said:


Quote:


on and always find a replacement. No problem. That's why I don't understand with the different linemen and different coaches we have had our oline seem to always suck.



See Belichick, Bill. The Pats are in a class of their own when it comes to coaching, and nobody else in the NFL is close.

Especially Matt Patricia.
I picked Houston over the Pats  
dune69 : 9/13/2018 12:32 pm : link
thinking that Houston's line would cause problems. NE bottled up JJ Watt and Clowney pretty well. They each had 2 tackles and no sacks. Pats normally have no-names on their offensive line and perform pretty well.

Having pointed this out, the Jags have an impressive defense and may get to Brady.
RE: Fatman  
dorgan : 9/13/2018 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14073783 joeinpa said:
Quote:
I m not trying to be a PIA.



Could have fooled the shit out of me.

RE: RE: This is not the first year the Pats have lost Oline men. They go  
bw in dc : 9/13/2018 12:51 pm : link
In comment 14073654 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14073486 Blue21 said:


Quote:


on and always find a replacement. No problem. That's why I don't understand with the different linemen and different coaches we have had our oline seem to always suck.



See Belichick, Bill. The Pats are in a class of their own when it comes to coaching, and nobody else in the NFL is close.


They have had very good play callers in Weis, O'Brien, and McDaniels. From what I know, Belichick really trusts Brady and the OC to devise the right plan for the opponent.

They have had a lot of D co-ordinators, but everyone knows those guys have basically ridden shot gun to Belichick. He determines which players he keeps to fit his system. And then he tutors the DC apprentice.

Dante Scarnecchia is a great, great oline coach. Arguably the greatest in history. He retired a few years ago and Belichick coaxed him back when the Pats had some holes a few years ago...Since his return? The Pats oline, albeit not the most talented, have been one of the most reliable in football. Guy is an absolute savant...
RE: RE: RE: This is not the first year the Pats have lost Oline men. They go  
Jay on the Island : 9/13/2018 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14073837 bw in dc said:
Quote:


Dante Scarnecchia is a great, great oline coach. Arguably the greatest in history. He retired a few years ago and Belichick coaxed him back when the Pats had some holes a few years ago...Since his return? The Pats oline, albeit not the most talented, have been one of the most reliable in football. Guy is an absolute savant...

Scarnecchia is an all time great OL coach. Year in and year out he has done a masterful job with that OL. They lose Solder and Flemming in FA and then they bring in

Trent Brown, a RT in SF, to play LT and they don't miss a beat. This is also after they lost their 1st round pick OL Isaiah Wynn for the season. Brown was expected to play RT this season but had to move to the left side after Wynn went down. Joe Thuney and Shaq Mason were drafted in the 3rd and 4th rounds and are one of the best guard duos in football. Their C David Andrews was an UDFA who is solid. I wish the Giants could get Scarnecchia for the next 2-3 years.
Hey dorgan  
joeinpa : 9/13/2018 1:13 pm : link
I don t equate expressing an opinion that might not be popular to being a pain in the ass.

Why are you so sensitive my friend.
My guess  
pjcas18 : 9/13/2018 1:30 pm : link
is the Patriots scheme to take the Jags DL (from a pass rush standpoint) as much out of the equation as possible.

Without Edelman it's harder with their personnel, but that's what they'll do IMO, they like to take away "that one thing" from the offense and defense.

I read the Patriots may only even dress two RB's Sunday and I'll bet they pass the ball 50+ times. Brady taking a quick drop and his receivers running a lot of quick slants.

And just when the Jags overplay the slant they'll run a seam to Gronk or a deep play to Hogan.
RE: RE: This is not the first year the Pats have lost Oline men. They go  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/13/2018 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14073654 jcn56 said:
Quote:

See Belichick, Bill. The Pats are in a class of their own when it comes to coaching, and nobody else in the NFL is close.


Bingo. That's why I always get annoyed when writers, BBI posters, fans, etc. say "We should do what the Pats do."
RE: RE: RE: RE: This is not the first year the Pats have lost Oline men. They go  
bw in dc : 9/13/2018 2:06 pm : link
In comment 14073863 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:

Scarnecchia is an all time great OL coach. Year in and year out he has done a masterful job with that OL. They lose Solder and Flemming in FA and then they bring in

Trent Brown, a RT in SF, to play LT and they don't miss a beat. This is also after they lost their 1st round pick OL Isaiah Wynn for the season. Brown was expected to play RT this season but had to move to the left side after Wynn went down. Joe Thuney and Shaq Mason were drafted in the 3rd and 4th rounds and are one of the best guard duos in football. Their C David Andrews was an UDFA who is solid. I wish the Giants could get Scarnecchia for the next 2-3 years.


Pats are a sneaky good team at drafting and finding olinemen. And I'm sure it's a combination of BB's well trained eyes and Scarnecchia's teaching.

Remember, they actually had a budding star at C in Bryan Stork from FSU a few years ago who they got in the middle rounds. Stork kept getting concussions and had to retire. Big hole right? No problem. Coach up Andrews and get him ready...and they haven't missed a beat.
expect the joint packed...  
BillKo : 9/13/2018 4:19 pm : link
...and crowd noise being a factor.

I'd expect a pretty low scoring game.

they pat's O-line held up well in week 1  
jcp56 : 9/13/2018 7:02 pm : link
against Clowney, Watt and Mercelous. I expect they will do well, and get rid of the ball quickly
the one wrinkle is that the Jags  
jcp56 : 9/13/2018 7:04 pm : link
LB's are terrific, and that should make the checkdowns to the running backs more difficult and less effective.
My secret to being happy is three little words!  
wgenesis123 : 9/14/2018 5:10 am : link
Let it go!
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