NFT: Mets Game 2 Doubleheader vs Marlins

and some pieces on offense, but they need Machado (or someone like him, I know he's a pipe dream) and some bullpen help; then, I'll get really excited..

and hit his first HR. Cool little game amidst all the Wright stuff. Conforto is red hot lately.

Rosario - SS
McNeil - 2B
Conforto - LF
Smith - 1B
Nimmo - RF
Jackson - CF
Reyes - 3B
Nido - C
Vargas- P

In comment 14074261 ZGiants98 said:

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and hit his first HR. Cool little game amidst all the Wright stuff. Conforto is red hot lately.

Weird season for Confordo, but he did hit 25 HR, and still has 15 games left. If he and Nimmo can stay healthy, if McNeil is legit - and get a bat or two - they can make some noise next year.

In comment 14074254 speedywheels said:

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and some pieces on offense, but they need Machado (or someone like him, I know he's a pipe dream) and some bullpen help; then, I'll get really excited..

Honestly, how stupid does ownership have to be to not identify that with basically two additions we could be a WS contender? (Machado/Closer) While most of the team is young we aren't rebuilding. This certainly isnt an old team. Wheeler and deGrom are shaping up to be Schilling and Randy Johnson next year. Oh yeah, and we have a third 26 year old ace for shits and giggles as well. Some hitters have emerged now so its not like Mets fans can claim one big bat wont save us. It actually will... Add the final pieces. I actually believe Sandy would have correctly assessed this roster and realized this as well and we would have had a situation similar to 2015 when he went after a bat aggressively. Unfortunately, I have no idea who will be running things or what the hell we are going to do.

In comment 14074266 speedywheels said:

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In comment 14074261 ZGiants98 said: Quote: and hit his first HR. Cool little game amidst all the Wright stuff. Conforto is red hot lately. Weird season for Confordo, but he did hit 25 HR, and still has 15 games left. If he and Nimmo can stay healthy, if McNeil is legit - and get a bat or two - they can make some noise next year.

Everything basically happened with the youngsters we wanted to it just took longer than expected. Rosario has been much better over the last 6-8 weeks and might even finish the year close to league average offensively. Conforto has basically been an all star caliber hitter over the second half (somewhat expected with the shoulder issue earlier). Every year I predict a player will come out of nowhere. That was McNeil this year. Even Bruce, Frazier, and Smith seem to be finishing strong. We got buried in June because too many of the youngsters were still struggling and Cespedes, Frazier, Bruce, Thor, and Familia were all on the DL. It was an absolute disaster. Even with Cespedes out, we've been playing around .500 baseball outside of that month.

Excellent 2nd half for him.

Machado makes sense on several levels.

Yet, Mgmt will pass on him without much of an effort, and try to sell everyone that they tried really hard.

Machado is the kind of guy who you offer an A-Rod type contract (without the "bidding against yourself" part that TEX did).

But Wilpon will be a pussy, as usual...

What was with the umpire blocking the plate on the walk off? Frazier gave him a quick wtf look after he bumped him.

has really found the stroke in September!

Machado is a knucklehead and Harper is “douche.” (According to Thor).

Both have talent but I would really like to see Mets develop these young hitters. Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, McNeil, Alonso—that’s s good core. And then of course there is the Plaw Dawg.

This is an 85 win team that went through a dreadful 8-29 slide that was caused by injuries, the Harvey fiasco, an inexperienced manager and a dreadful FO that threw gas on the fire. And has anyone noticed that they have played much better after trading their vets at the deadline?

In comment 14074330 Vanzetti said:

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And has anyone noticed that they have played much better after trading their vets at the deadline?

I think a lot of people have noticed. It's hard to gauge what that means, because they've been out of contention for so long, but yes, they've been pretty good. Especially since McNeil became a regular and Rosario started driving the ball.

.

Red Sox, Phillies, Nationals, and Braves coming up. Time to break some hearts.

In comment 14074391 ZGiants98 said:

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Red Sox, Phillies, Nationals, and Braves coming up. Time to break some hearts.

Red Sox have 100 wins and a 10 game lead with 15 to play - they've pretty much locked up best record in baseball.

Not sure the Mets will break any hearts this weekend even if they sweep.

I actually sold my tickets for Saturday when it was clear deGrom wasn't going to pitch.

Sunday though, deGrom vs Sale, that's a prime time (though 1pm game) big boy matchup of Cy Young leaders.

Might try and go to that one.

of the rain. So Oswalt is pitching Saturday? Yikes. Throwing Thor, deGrom, and Wheeler at them would have been fun.

deGrom has to face Sale on Sunday. We all know how thats going to go. We cant even hit mediocre lefties. Yikes. deGrom cant catch a break.

In comment 14074330 Vanzetti said:

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Machado is a knucklehead and Harper is “douche.” (According to Thor). Both have talent but I would really like to see Mets develop these young hitters. Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, McNeil, Alonso—that’s s good core. And then of course there is the Plaw Dawg. This is an 85 win team that went through a dreadful 8-29 slide that was caused by injuries, the Harvey fiasco, an inexperienced manager and a dreadful FO that threw gas on the fire. And has anyone noticed that they have played much better after trading their vets at the deadline?

'

If they go .500 just in May and June they are 80-66, 2 games out of first place and 1 game back from the wild card. Just .500. And the addition of Cespedes would play a big role in that, just as the addition of Alonso would, and if McNeil was up for those couple of months. I think it's fair to say that with substantially the same group, with health and getting the guys playing that should be playing instead of re-treads like A-Gon, this team is a contender. That said, I agree, they need one more legit bat, and I think that guy should be Machado, but they won't get him...so the bat should be Wilson Ramos, IMO.

And if that's not inspiring then you have to consider that they will get Alonso at some point, they will have a Rosario who has now blossomed and may continue to do so, they have McNeil now, they have Nimmo...just keep the guys that have helped this team in the lineup and they will win games.

next season could be -
c - Plawecki
1b - Alonso
2b - Gimenez/Rosario
ss - Gimenez/Rosario
3b - McNeil
rf - Conforto
cf - Nimmo
lf - Cespedes

In comment 14074522 Ira said:

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next season could be - c - Plawecki 1b - Alonso 2b - Gimenez/Rosario ss - Gimenez/Rosario 3b - McNeil rf - Conforto cf - Nimmo lf - Cespedes

Ira,
Cespedes is expected (at minimum) to miss half of the season. I've heard off the record they don't expect him back until August (the earliest).

In comment 14074529 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14074522 Ira said: Quote: next season could be - c - Plawecki 1b - Alonso 2b - Gimenez/Rosario ss - Gimenez/Rosario 3b - McNeil rf - Conforto cf - Nimmo lf - Cespedes Ira, Cespedes is expected (at minimum) to miss half of the season. I've heard off the record they don't expect him back until August (the earliest).

\

Yeah, you're not gonna see much of Cespedes next year if at all. Maybe if they are in contention he may make a miracle recovery by August, only to get hurt again. Plawecki is a backup, Wilson Ramos would be an excellent addition, but they still need more to really contend.

Wright will get the entirety of the 27 million he's owed, the only difference is how much is coming from the Mets. Davidoff estimates the Mets will be paying roughly 5 million more than if Wright didn't play at all. 6.75 had he not played, now roughly 12.

at the end of July said the recovery estimate was 8-10 months. That works out to April to June. Regarding Plawecki - yeah he's a backup, but most starting mlb catchers these days play like backups. The days of Yogi, Campy, Bench and Piazza are gone.

In comment 14074549 DanMetroMan said:

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Wright will get the entirety of the 27 million he's owed, the only difference is how much is coming from the Mets. Davidoff estimates the Mets will be paying roughly 5 million more than if Wright didn't play at all. 6.75 had he not played, now roughly 12.

So. The past month. It was all just. A charade?

a situation with the facts we currently have available. I’m guessing a settlement is reached/announced after the season. Yes, the Mets are paying roughly 5 million more just for activating Wright in two weeks based on if everything stayed the same. But things likely don’t stay the same IMO.

In comment 14074569 Ira said:

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at the end of July said the recovery estimate was 8-10 months. That works out to April to June. Regarding Plawecki - yeah he's a backup, but most starting mlb catchers these days play like backups. The days of Yogi, Campy, Bench and Piazza are gone.

ira you read that wrong. Ricco said MINIMUM is 8-10 months but then they decided to let Cespedes have 2 months off between procedures. Nobody ever said 8-10 months.

that as fans, it doesn't matter to us or really shouldn't matter to much how they finalize it. of course we're all interested in the details. but if that money is not reinvested in payroll, who gives a F how he's separated?

If he retires, best case, the Mets save his entire contract and can cancel the insurance. I doubt that happens.

If he gets declared medically unfit to play and is in a Prince Fielder situation, it at least provides cost certainty and Jeff can no longer legitimately claim Wright's situation doesn't provide that and count his entire contract in payroll, and should or could in theory, reinvest the 75% they don't pay of his contract (once insurance kicks in) minus the premiums back into payroll

If there is a settlement, same as above, the net should or could be reinvested.

Other than that I have some slight melancholy lamenting the lost career of a homegrown Met who was on the path to greatness, but only slight because it's been coming for a few years.

That would put his return at early June, but after assistant general manager John Ricco said at a press conference at Citi Field today that the Mets – after getting another two opinions – would acquiesce and that Cespedes would have two surgeries months apart, that could push his return next year to sometime in August.


The diagnosis on Cespedes was calcifications around each Achilles tendon and bone spurs on each heel. He will undergo two surgeries staggered by up to three months, which accounts for the possible August return.

And Cespedes being Cespedes, it could be even later. If you’re the Mets, you might not even expect to see Cespedes at all next year. Actually, that's good news because it eliminates the "will he or won't he play?" scenario.


Regarding the initial 8-10 and that was before they decided to go 2 months between

"“It’s possible it will be longer than that, but it probably won’t be shorter than that,” assistant general manager John Ricco said at a news conference with Cespedes before the Mets’ 6-4 victory over the Padres at Citi Field.

In comment 14074609 pjcas18 said:

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that as fans, it doesn't matter to us or really shouldn't matter to much how they finalize it. of course we're all interested in the details. but if that money is not reinvested in payroll, who gives a F how he's separated? If he retires, best case, the Mets save his entire contract and can cancel the insurance. I doubt that happens. If he gets declared medically unfit to play and is in a Prince Fielder situation, it at least provides cost certainty and Jeff can no longer legitimately claim Wright's situation doesn't provide that and count his entire contract in payroll, and should or could in theory, reinvest the 75% they don't pay of his contract (once insurance kicks in) minus the premiums back into payroll If there is a settlement, same as above, the net should or could be reinvested. Other than that I have some slight melancholy lamenting the lost career of a homegrown Met who was on the path to greatness, but only slight because it's been coming for a few years.

He's 100% not "retiring" so you can cross that option off

know, just for thoroughness it should be listed.

They wanted him to have some mobility on his right leg before operating on the left one.

I said, I was told off the record they don't "expect much" from him in 2019 and wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't play at all. I wouldn't count on him for anything let alone any 1st half lineups. I really want them to pursue Marwin Gonzalez. He's #1 on my "non-star" wishlist.

whether they save a few dollars or not, his contract is no the longer 25% chunk of the payroll it used to be and he hasn't really played in 3 seasons. Only mets management could create a months long drama over something so relatively small - with such a simple outcome of letting 1 of the franchise greats play 1 last homestand.

Clearly there was some form of negotiating going on behind the scenes the last month with Wright. Clearly he and the Mets weren't on the same page. We don't need to be rocket scientists to guess that in all likelihood Wright has tried to be as classy as possible while the Mets as overly concerned with money. Character is destiny.

But that’s just wishful thinking :(

Marwin + Ramos or Grandal

I guess ante up on one of the "closers" because none of the in-house guys look like that to me

Sign Morton (yup another SP)

1b- Gonzalez to open the season, Alonso once they are done playing games
2b- McNeil
SS Rosario
LF Gonzalez
CF Nimmo
RF Conforto
C Grandal or Ramos + Plawecki

Rotation
DeGrom, Thor, Morton, Wheeler, Matz

But if you added Morton and a closer that team would look pretty solid and definitely an upgrade from where we are at now. The problem is what happens in June when 3-4 guys are out the lineup again(McNeil, Conforto, Nimmo, etc all have big injury histories). You’re then putting huge pressure on a youngster like Alonso to come through and a vet like Ramos to carry you maybe... sounds like 2018 all over again but maybe I’m just getting jaded. Lol.

In comment 14074762 ZGiants98 said:

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But if you added Morton and a closer that team would look pretty solid and definitely an upgrade from where we are at now. The problem is what happens in June when 3-4 guys are out the lineup again(McNeil, Conforto, Nimmo, etc all have big injury histories). You’re then putting huge pressure on a youngster like Alonso to come through and a vet like Ramos to carry you maybe... sounds like 2018 all over again but maybe I’m just getting jaded. Lol.

I expect far less than the off-season I just proposed.

#1 Marwin Gonzalez 2017 was every bit as good offensively as McNeil this year, 2nd half this year again so if you like McNeil you should like Gonzalez

#2 Despite your disagreement with me yesterday Grandal is a significant upgrade over Plawecki overall and Plawecki would take the awful Mesorado ab's

#3 What exactly do you expect? Go look at the available FA, beyond dreaming of Machado/Harper it's a pretty crappy list in terms of middle of the order bats. Best way to go is fill in the gaps with upgrades and then go outside the box and add someone like Morton. The Mets every single game would have a good SP (something very few if any teams could say). The beauty of Marwin Gonzalez is he also can fill in for a struggling Alonso, McNeil or Rosario and allows you do "add" another bat in another spot in-season if need be,

yeah, the Mets will be back in 2019 if the young players struggle, they are not a deep roster and do not have position player depth in the minors outside of potentially Gimenez/Alonso.

as my #1 wishlist player.

I really like the versatility he brings, especially at 1st and 3rd as we figure out Alonso and eventually move on from Frazier.

In comment 14074781 Chris684 said:

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as my #1 wishlist player. I really like the versatility he brings, especially at 1st and 3rd as we figure out Alonso and eventually move on from Frazier.

I really think he's an incredibly good fit. We have injury prone players and ?? at positions where he can fill-in and he's legit a very good bat. He's not a star and won't be paid like one. But the fact he can play all over the field and hit means he's perfect for a team that has an older Todd Frazier, an injury prone Nimmo/Lagares, ?? at 1b, and 2 "unproven" players in the middle infield (

is this late season success has Jeff convinced the Mets should contend in 2019 and leverages the farm to half-ass it.

Trading away Gimenez, Vientos, Kelenic, Mauricio, Newton, Szapucki, SWR, Peterson, etc, for non-super star players would be a mistake. Super star players, sure, but that's not how it usually works.

I'd trade other guys though like Dunn, Kay, Cecchini, heck I'd even possibly try and capitalize on the year Alonso has had and deal him. So many scouts question his D, and the Mets keep adding these DH types who wind up being their best hitters.

But there is very little chance they undersell any of those prospects. Could their be deals, sure, but zero chance they are undersold. Patience for another six months does twohings
1) let’s the team know if they are contender or pretenders mid season. They have some assets to dump and do a quick rebuild if it’s the latter. And if they are a contender it allowed the kids to climb up the prospect ladders and become even more valuable.

Cecchini wouldn't even bring back a 6th inning RP at this point so I wouldn't worry too much about him lol

In comment 14074829 DanMetroMan said:

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Cecchini wouldn't even bring back a 6th inning RP at this point so I wouldn't worry too much about him lol

Apparently neither did Bruce, Reed, Duda, Walker, Familia... lol

and I think that would be a solid direction to go to build an 80-85 win team with the capacity to continue incrementally improving if opportunities present themselves. I'd feel even better about it if it's being led by a fresh GM from the outside with a track record of player development and finding undervalued young players/prospects.

As we saw this year, there are cheap veteran rentals very available at the deadline now. Moreso than a few years ago when the club was ascending in 2014/2015. An 80-85 win team can pretty easily add a couple pieces in July to make a run at the WC.

The only slight adjustment I'd make is a preference towards trading for younger players more on the ascent at C or OF (ideally CF) a la Yelich/Ozuna last year vs. closer to 30 year old FA's trying to get their last big contract. But who knows if any such players will be available. And yes to get you have to give, I'd be open to packaging 1 or 2 of the guys in the top 12 if it were for the right player. I likely wouldn't trade Gimenez or Alonso and it would take a lot to deal Vientos or Kelenic, but I'd be open to discussing the rest.

In comment 14074777 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 14074762 ZGiants98 said: Quote: But if you added Morton and a closer that team would look pretty solid and definitely an upgrade from where we are at now. The problem is what happens in June when 3-4 guys are out the lineup again(McNeil, Conforto, Nimmo, etc all have big injury histories). You’re then putting huge pressure on a youngster like Alonso to come through and a vet like Ramos to carry you maybe... sounds like 2018 all over again but maybe I’m just getting jaded. Lol. I expect far less than the off-season I just proposed. #1 Marwin Gonzalez 2017 was every bit as good offensively as McNeil this year, 2nd half this year again so if you like McNeil you should like Gonzalez #2 Despite your disagreement with me yesterday Grandal is a significant upgrade over Plawecki overall and Plawecki would take the awful Mesorado ab's #3 What exactly do you expect? Go look at the available FA, beyond dreaming of Machado/Harper it's a pretty crappy list in terms of middle of the order bats. Best way to go is fill in the gaps with upgrades and then go outside the box and add someone like Morton. The Mets every single game would have a good SP (something very few if any teams could say). The beauty of Marwin Gonzalez is he also can fill in for a struggling Alonso, McNeil or Rosario and allows you do "add" another bat in another spot in-season if need be,

1.) major difference between McNeil and Gonzalez is McNeil has killed it all year at every level and we only have one sample to base anything off of in the majors. Gonzalez has a massive sample. I mean, come on, I like the guy as an add too but you can’t possibly tell me he’s a wRC+ 140s guy going forward. He’s 31 and a career league average bat. Great year last and nice second half this year but as good as he’s been over the second half he was equally atrocious over the first. I think at best you might be able to say he’s another streaky guy that has his ups and downs but if he was a wRC+ 140s guy heading into next year he would be getting a massive payday. Don’t get me wrong. Not shitting on him. I like him as a glue guy and love his versatility.


2.). I never argued or disagreed Grandal wasn’t a huge upgrade over Plawecki. Overall, factoring defense, it’s substantial. I questioned if his bat would offer a substantial enough upgrade to the lineup going forward with obviously Cespedes out all of or most of next year. That’s a major difference.

3.). I agree with you here. It’s not going to be easy. I’m hoping there’s possible a trade target out there or somebody comes available we aren’t seeing yet. I think if your ownership you have to acknowledge that Wright and Cespedes haven’t worked and we need something or somebody to stabilize the middle of the lineup better moving forward and you also HAVE to give Thor, DeGrom, and Wheeler a shot next year. I also don’t think your plan was a bad one at all. Technically though, we had Familia, Cespedes, etc. heading into 2018. Does that team look any better on paper than the one we thought we had going into this season? Things can fall a part quick so I question if that’s going to be enough. If we had some health luck for once it might be.

I think I’d rather go after another setup option (with a closer addition) that could leave the door open for Lugo in the rotation. We have the best rotation in the league this year with Wheeler starting slow, Thor being out twice, Vargas and Matz not offering much. I think we have bigger needs. Just my opinion though. No wrong thoughts.

29.5. Not 31. Same thought though.

A minor league pitcher, Alonso, and maybe a low level guy for Jose Abreu?

In comment 14074886 ZGiants98 said:

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I think I’d rather go after another setup option (with a closer addition) that could leave the door open for Lugo in the rotation. We have the best rotation in the league this year with Wheeler starting slow, Thor being out twice, Vargas and Matz not offering much. I think we have bigger needs. Just my opinion though. No wrong thoughts.

I'd do both, and that's where the frustration should come in as fans. the Mets should be able to add Morton, and fix the bullpen and add a bat.

this is not Oakland or Tampa or Pittsburgh. It's NY and the Mets should be able to (not necessarily saying just spend like drunken sailors because you can), but they should be able to add whatever players they need to fill holes. if, and big if, they expect to contend.

If they feel like they're not going to contend, stay small, be conservative, but 100% have a plan to get to contention.

that's where I've been frustrated in the past, the Mets settle on players instead of going all in, or the Mets dumpster dive, or wait out the market, just target a player(s) and make it happen.

Fans have shown when this team succeeds they'll draw fans with any team in baseball.

Assuming it was true (I’ve heard this from a few valuable sources) that Sandy genuinely always wanted to work with a buffer/flexibility in case we needed to take on salary at a deadline, etc. in a WS competing year, or even leave open the idea of signing some of our own players(deGrom) in upcoming years and never wanted to max out our payroll conpletely...how far away were we actually from the luxury tax? Fans have outrage but 160 million or so with ability to add more on a rainy day and your whole rotation is on arbitration should be plenty. I think none of us know what the direction will be going forward. Aside from right after the Madoff stuff, the Wilpons generally have been ok with adding a big player or two. I think they are idiots and meddlesome but I also think financially they have recovered and will get on board with whatever the new GM/direction is.