NFT: Mets at Red Sox. Thor

And not Bruce? Weird.

In comment 14075105 ZGiants98 said:

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And not Bruce? Weird.

I think Smith started both games yesterday - Bruce only one.

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Mets are not in on the Mesas for those wondering.

In comment 14075119 DanMetroMan said:

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Matt Ehalt � Verified account @MattEhalt Following Following @MattEhalt More Mets are not in on the Mesas for those wondering.

What good is bonus pool money if you are not going to use it?

In comment 14075114 Ira said:

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In comment 14075105 ZGiants98 said: Quote: And not Bruce? Weird. I think Smith started both games yesterday - Bruce only one.

Did he? I thought Smith was out Game 1. Either way is 1B so strenuous that a 23 year old is tired the day after and needs rest?

Incredible. Wow. We should have gone after JD. :(

a little two out rally to start the night!

Really playing good ball since he left the DL.

3 for his last 35. Why does he get so many starts, again?

In comment 14075297 jpkmets said:

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3 for his last 35. Why does he get so many starts, again?

His defense is also subpar. He is probably still a better CFer than Nimmo. But not by a lot. Plus, don't we want Nimmo to get the reps in center in meaningless games?

was since he got off the DL most recently. Was dealing with foot and heal issues since ST earlier in the season. At least nobody can say he's "finished" whether you buy the early injuries or not.

In comment 14075301 Vanzetti said:

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In comment 14075297 jpkmets said: Quote: 3 for his last 35. Why does he get so many starts, again? His defense is also subpar. He is probably still a better CFer than Nimmo. But not by a lot. Plus, don't we want Nimmo to get the reps in center in meaningless games?

Yes. Austin Jackson still on the team is freaking awful.

off a lefty.

very nice.

Bad side: Braves are winning, and we really need them to go 1-15 if we are going to pass them

Good side: Scherzer given up 4 ER in 5, ERA up to 2.45.

4 solid everyday players when healthy - Nimmo, Conforto, Rosario, Mcneil.

1B has 2 starter talent level candidates, either one has a good case to get a shot every day and more than likely 1 of them will take it next year.

C, CF, and 3B may not have every day starters yet but Plaw, Lagares and Flores are at least good backups.

Obviously need to supplement with acquisitions but a lot to build on within the org to turn things around quickly if managed right. It's been a very long time since this org had this level of homegrown talent (almost all on first contracts). Nimmo, Mcneil, Rosario progressing this year was a big development in a lost year.

a hell of a diving stab on a liner by McNeil.

Noah shuts the Sox out through 7.

gave up 6 earned. ERA to 2.53.

That ERA gap got a lot wider in the last 24 hours.

Keep it steady with three good starts to end the season and that Cy is yours, imo, Jake.

Thor is taking the best team in baseball over his knee and spanking them in public.

Giving DeGrom more offensive support than the Mets...
That’s gotta be the kill shot for Sherz chances. Now need Nola to have a meltdown outing

Jackson and Rosario!

In comment 14075338 jpkmets said:

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gave up 6 earned. ERA to 2.53. That ERA gap got a lot wider in the last 24 hours. Keep it steady with three good starts to end the season and that Cy is yours, imo, Jake.

IMO, he needs to get at least two Wins and finish with a winning record. Thor is likely going to be 12-3 after this game. Makes Jake's 8-9 look questionable. Lack of run support argument only goes so far.

In comment 14075343 Shecky said:

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Giving DeGrom more offensive support than the Mets... That’s gotta be the kill shot for Sherz chances. Now need Nola to have a meltdown outing

Nola got smacked around taking the L on Wed. (4 ER in 5 IP) -- so his ERA is up to 2.42

Next outing is against us next week with Vargas on the bump. So, if JDG throws well on Sunday, we could really help him salt this away by supporting Vargas again.

Scherzer's next outing is against us on Thorsday next week.

Hopefully Noah racks the Nats up and we pound Scherzer.

Would be a bit of redemption if we take out JDG's main rivals.

lefties

Is this still just a "hot start"? And too small a sample size?

Or has the guy demonstrated he can hit in the majors?

In comment 14075142 Mike in NY said:

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In comment 14075119 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Matt Ehalt � Verified account @MattEhalt Following Following @MattEhalt More Mets are not in on the Mesas for those wondering. What good is bonus pool money if you are not going to use it?

They’d rather see the Braves or Phillies sign them. Unreal. No excuse not to be in on these guys.

In comment 14075346 Vanzetti said:

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In comment 14075338 jpkmets said: Quote: gave up 6 earned. ERA to 2.53. That ERA gap got a lot wider in the last 24 hours. Keep it steady with three good starts to end the season and that Cy is yours, imo, Jake. IMO, he needs to get at least two Wins and finish with a winning record. Thor is likely going to be 12-3 after this game. Makes Jake's 8-9 look questionable. Lack of run support argument only goes so far.

Lol, how does the lack of run support argument only go so far? It’s literally out of his control and essentially the worst in the league.

How does a worse pitcher with a better record due to better run support make DeGrom’s record look “questionable”?

In comment 14075352 Vanzetti said:

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Is this still just a "hot start"? And too small a sample size? Or has the guy demonstrated he can hit in the majors?

How can anyone call what McNeil is doing in the majors a hot streak when he was even more hot in AA and AAA this year? He's been crushing it all season. His HR output actually took a hit in the majors. He might be the coldest he's been all year right now!

In comment 14075352 Vanzetti said:

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Is this still just a "hot start"? And too small a sample size? Or has the guy demonstrated he can hit in the majors?

He's proven it to me.

He has hit at every level. This isn't out of line at all with his minor league performance.

I'm a total believer in McNeil.

In comment 14075355 PhiPsi125 said:

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In comment 14075346 Vanzetti said: Quote: In comment 14075338 jpkmets said: Quote: gave up 6 earned. ERA to 2.53. That ERA gap got a lot wider in the last 24 hours. Keep it steady with three good starts to end the season and that Cy is yours, imo, Jake. IMO, he needs to get at least two Wins and finish with a winning record. Thor is likely going to be 12-3 after this game. Makes Jake's 8-9 look questionable. Lack of run support argument only goes so far. Lol, how does the lack of run support argument only go so far? It’s literally out of his control and essentially the worst in the league. How does a worse pitcher with a better record due to better run support make DeGrom’s record look “questionable”?

Yeah, I don't get that view at all.

It's clear to me -- deGrom has bee the best pitcher in baseball this year. He can't manufacture runs from his teammates or good bullpen work.

In what he can control - his performance on the mound -- he's been just awesome.

160 IP in his last 21 starts -- 16 starts of 7ip or more in that time frame.

He's given length and superlative performance in all of those innings.

BBWA chose to make this simple criteria -- the best pitcher in the league -- they also made an MVP award in which wins and contributions thereto are considered - and chose not to make the Cy Young about any of those.

Syndegaard's better W/L with an ERA of nearly twice deGrom's doesn't make his season "suspect" -- it means that the other Mets - batters and BP -- have performed better in Thor's starts than in Jake's.

I just cannot see how that reflects poorly on deGrom.

starts -- half his starts -- in which he's pitched 6 IP or more and given up 2 ER or less - -and in which he's either taken the Loss or a ND.

In July he had b2b starts in which he pitched 16 innings combined -- 8 in both -- gave up nine total hits and the Mets won both games - 5-0 and 3-1 as the Mets didn't score until late.

Just nothing more you can do as an NL pitcher -- you're gonna get pinch hit for eventually if your team simply isn't scoring.

He's been remarkable.

team continues the very solid second-half play (37-30).

Lot of good things to like about this team down the stretch.

I would give the CY to Degrom hands down. I'm a huge believer in ERA as the ultimate measure of a pitcher. I don't put nearly as much stock in FIP or WAR for pitchers.

But I'm talking about how voters think. It's going to be hard for Jake to win with 8-9 or 9-10 record. And you guys know that or we would not even be having this discussion. Voters put emphasis on record. And Thor being 12-3 does not help Jake's cause because voters can say, "Thor had the same hitters behind him, the same bullpen."

Jake also gave up the lead something like 6 times. Voters can say, if he held the lead even three of those times, maybe his record is 11-6 instead of 8-9. Fair or not, that's the way it is. People think an Ace should be able to hold the lead whether it is 1-0 or 2-1 or whatever.

I think if his record is .500 or better, he wins. But I don't think he wins if his record is below .500.

In comment 14075376 Vanzetti said:

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I would give the CY to Degrom hands down. I'm a huge believer in ERA as the ultimate measure of a pitcher. I don't put nearly as much stock in FIP or WAR for pitchers. But I'm talking about how voters think. It's going to be hard for Jake to win with 8-9 or 9-10 record. And you guys know that or we would not even be having this discussion. Voters put emphasis on record. And Thor being 12-3 does not help Jake's cause because voters can say, "Thor had the same hitters behind him, the same bullpen." Jake also gave up the lead something like 6 times. Voters can say, if he held the lead even three of those times, maybe his record is 11-6 instead of 8-9. Fair or not, that's the way it is. People think an Ace should be able to hold the lead whether it is 1-0 or 2-1 or whatever. I think if his record is .500 or better, he wins. But I don't think he wins if his record is below .500.

I'll take that action if it comes to it -- I think the evolution of how the sportswriters and general public view wins and losses help here. The ERA gap - a stat which pitchers largely control -- is too big to ignore in favor on the wins stat -- in which the pitcher has much more limited control.

Also helps that the other candidates aren't likely to be 20 game winners. If Scherzer was 23-5, I'd be more concerned.

Anyway, hoping the bats wake up for him though. Because I'd be very happy for this to be a moot point at 12-9, ya know?

call attention to the ridiculousness of how good he has been relative to the team around him. He's pretty close to locking up the award and it will be a very mets trivia question for it to be a met that wins the cy young with the lowest wins ever and 3rd lowest on his own team.

Did he get hurt and I miss it?

Also only thing that scares me with McNeil is that prospectus article about his exit velocity being one of the lowest in basebal. Very surprising to me and maybe result of never striking out, but that is usually a harbringer of unsustainable babip.

In comment 14075422 bhill410 said:

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Did he get hurt and I miss it? Also only thing that scares me with McNeil is that prospectus article about his exit velocity being one of the lowest in basebal. Very surprising to me and maybe result of never striking out, but that is usually a harbringer of unsustainable babip.

Yeah it’s why I think he hasn’t really gotten in a complete groove in the majors yet which seems preposterous considering how good he’s been overall. In the minors he was hitting a lot more doubles and home runs...

wRC+ of 159 since coming off the DL.

13-12 with a 2.27 era. deGrom has earned this award. Just like you can’t pick your parents, you can’t pick your run support.

In the top 15 in fWAR. Amazingly the Indians do as well and the Astros have three in the top 22. We were having a discussion on MMO.. if you factor age, years of control, current salary... Syndergaard is very likely the most valuable starting pitching commodity in the sport.
Link - ( New Window )

Could probably make a good case too.

First time at Fenway with my son.

If there’s a “perfect” day (night), we had it.

Got field passes from a friend of a friend (who works for the Sox). Met Jerry Blevins, Seth Lugo and Steve Gelbs.

Then fit the huge win! Crazy.

We were sitting in the little cutout area in CF and we were on SNY when McNeil (sorry, Ichiro) hit the HR.

Great stuff!

In comment 14075522 ZGiants98 said:

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In the top 15 in fWAR. Amazingly the Indians do as well and the Astros have three in the top 22. We were having a discussion on MMO.. if you factor age, years of control, current salary... Syndergaard is very likely the most valuable starting pitching commodity in the sport. Link - ( New Window )

I would put Blake Snell ahead of Thor.

In comment 14075529 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 14075522 ZGiants98 said: Quote: In the top 15 in fWAR. Amazingly the Indians do as well and the Astros have three in the top 22. We were having a discussion on MMO.. if you factor age, years of control, current salary... Syndergaard is very likely the most valuable starting pitching commodity in the sport. Link - ( New Window ) I would put Blake Snell ahead of Thor.

Interesting. Snell and Thor are neck and neck this year only Thor has 30 less innings. Snell also has never come close to what Thor did in 2016.

In comment 14075542 ZGiants98 said:

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Interesting. Snell and Thor are neck and neck this year only Thor has 30 less innings. Snell also has never come close to what Thor did in 2016.

I'm not taking anything away from Thor I just think Snell is just getting started.

Snell has the better k rate, ERA, WHIP while Thor has a better FIP this season.

Snell has never come close to Thor in 2016?
Snell 2.03 ERA, 0.982 WHIP, 3.09 FIP, 10.7 K/9 3.09
Thor 2.60 ERA, 1.149 WHIP, 10.7 k/9, 2.29 FIP

he is a year younger and he has a year more of control and is making only 558,000 this season.

In comment 14075548 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 14075542 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Interesting. Snell and Thor are neck and neck this year only Thor has 30 less innings. Snell also has never come close to what Thor did in 2016. I'm not taking anything away from Thor I just think Snell is just getting started. Snell has the better k rate, ERA, WHIP while Thor has a better FIP this season. Snell has never come close to Thor in 2016? Snell 2.03 ERA, 0.982 WHIP, 3.09 FIP, 10.7 K/9 3.09 Thor 2.60 ERA, 1.149 WHIP, 10.7 k/9, 2.29 FIP

I’m comparing pitchers based on fWAR which I prefer since it puts more stock in FIP. No I don’t think Snell has ever reached the heights of Syndergaard in 2016. Your talking 3.9 fWAR(his best year ever) to 6.3 fWAR. It’s a pretty dramatic difference. I also think most Mets fans would consider this an “off year” for Thor and he’s basically matching Snell this season identically.

Obviously not worth arguing over. I’ll easily settle for Thor being in the conversation.

A part in age.

If you value FWar for pitchers. What is your preference for hitters wRC+, OPS?

In comment 14075467 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 14075422 bhill410 said: Quote: Did he get hurt and I miss it? Also only thing that scares me with McNeil is that prospectus article about his exit velocity being one of the lowest in basebal. Very surprising to me and maybe result of never striking out, but that is usually a harbringer of unsustainable babip. Yeah it’s why I think he hasn’t really gotten in a complete groove in the majors yet which seems preposterous considering how good he’s been overall. In the minors he was hitting a lot more doubles and home runs...

babip is basically a meaningless stat. All it really tells you is when a guy is hot, he is going to cool off and if he is cold, he is going to heat up. Who didn't know this already?

In comment 14075573 Jay on the Island said:

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If you value FWar for pitchers. What is your preference for hitters wRC+, OPS?

wRC+ but they are figured almost identical really. Either works for me.

Not regular OPS.

In comment 14075586 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 14075573 Jay on the Island said: Quote: If you value FWar for pitchers. What is your preference for hitters wRC+, OPS? wRC+ but they are figured almost identical really. Either works for me.

yeah sorry I meant OPS+

In comment 14075522 ZGiants98 said:

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In the top 15 in fWAR. Amazingly the Indians do as well and the Astros have three in the top 22. We were having a discussion on MMO.. if you factor age, years of control, current salary... Syndergaard is very likely the most valuable starting pitching commodity in the sport. Link - ( New Window )

I strongly, STRONGLLY agree. Hat Thor is the best pitcher in all of baseball. If and when it clicks for him, it is truly scary what he will become. Which overlooks what he already is.

Still tipping...