It’s also scary that DG and Shurm both thought Eli has a lot left in the tank after evaluating him last year. He is toast.
What some of the fans here fail to recognize is that Eli’s lack of mobility greatly affects how teams play him. On obvious passing downs rushers are coming FULL TILT after Eli. Very few QBs see all out rushers like Eli because rushers know Eli can’t get away from them. It’s not like Rodgers, Stafford, Luck, Wilson, or 80% of other QBs where guys have to have controlled rushes as not to give up scrambling lanes. Teams know that moment Eli has to move that they have the advantage. There is no consequence for selling all out against Eli.
somebody said, the Giants are the Knicks. They've been rebuilding for years, but are no better based on their moves.
Untrue. The Giants have been band-aiding one year after the other, believing that with Eli they had a secure shot at another title, having won 2 already.
Since 2011, that hope has keep them right at the brink, refusing to make major, wholesale changes. They decide to fire TC? They give McAdoo the job. They can Reese? They give the nod to Gettleman.
Everything has been with the belief that they're just a few tweaks here or there from the promised land, and the results prove that they're extremely wrong.
RE: This has made me realize that Coughlin and Eli in his prime Â
Covered up how poor an owner John Mara actually is. For years he didn't have to make any big decisions because he had a well coached team with a QB in his prime. And these two things coincided with him taking over as owner. When things started to go south and he had to make big decisions for the first time...it has been one mistake after another. The truth is, he's not shown himself to be a very good owner. This is pretty dangerous territory the Giants are now in long-term.
Disagree. He is an excellent owner. Je is just an atrocious head of football operations. He should fire himself from.that role.
4 carries in the first half? Are you for real with that? We re-sign Odell to a huge contract, we only pass to him twice.
Shephard, Engram, Latimer, were nonexistent. Shurmer NEEDS to justify his playcalling. We should demand to know how they prepared for this game and what their offensive philosophy was for this game.
Might as well start Lauletta next week against Houston. Can't be worse than what we already are, the worst team in the NFC.
Actually that goes to the cardinals they have scored 6 points in 2 games losing 34 to 0 today.
RE: And if there's any basis to player evaluation, the OL Â
is about to get worse with the loss of Halapio. Going purely by the fact that he's the backup on the depth chart.
Let that one sink in for a minute.
Actually Greco didn’t look too bad, but this might be an opportunity now for a guy like Pulley. Greco is the back up at Center and Guard and so, I think it might be Pulley now.
I think we believed that being "close" versus Jax on the offensive side, we'd really start clicking versus Dallas.
But Jax didn't have game film on what the Giants/Shurmur were going to do, so they played it straight up and applied pretty good pressure with their talent.
Tonight...Dallas figured they would test the Giants with pressure - and I feel the Giants felt Dallas would lay back - and Dallas was simply all over them.
Going forward, the Giants are going to be blitzed like tonight until they prove they can stop it.
They miss Vernon and hopefully Carter grows up quick. They're not egtting mush pass rush from Martin Barwin has a few miles left - but he's a speller, not a starter at this point
They miss Vernon and hopefully Carter grows up quick. They're not egtting mush pass rush from Martin Barwin has a few miles left - but he's a speller, not a starter at this point
Fuck Vernon and barwins getting shaken out of his shoes. Just another eagle taken by the giants who had a fork in his back
They miss Vernon and hopefully Carter grows up quick. They're not egtting mush pass rush from Martin Barwin has a few miles left - but he's a speller, not a starter at this point
Ehhh..those two INTs were exactly easy. The defense recovered and played decently after those first two drives, but the lack of sacks - and pressure - was most disappointing to me.
Any offensive production would have made this a ball game.
Barwin had a knockdown, almost pick and knocked a pass down last week. He's made some plays - but he's not a starter at this point.
If anything, they might want to mix some caution with that aggressive direction the defense is heading. Some of the plays they are giving up is due to team's taking advantage of theri aggression.
Lost in the offensive mess, the defense finished the night with no sacks, no tackles for a loss, only two pass defenses, and no turnovers.
It is not like Dallas was going up and down the field on us they held Elliot to 78 on 17 carries and Dak had 160 yards in which 64 came on one play. The defense kept the game close and it was the offense that didn't take advantage.
Barwin had a knockdown, almost pick and knocked a pass down last week. He's made some plays - but he's not a starter at this point.
If anything, they might want to mix some caution with that aggressive direction the defense is heading. Some of the plays they are giving up is due to team's taking advantage of theri aggression.
They’ll be winless whenever he shows up. He’ll be a huge help in getting all his close but no cigar pressures/sacks then. Another FA loser.
I don't remember the last time I ever saw a stat line where a defense had zero tackles for a loss, zero sacks, zero turnovers, and just 2 pass defenses.
The offense lost this game, but the defense didn't help.
I don't remember the last time I ever saw a stat line where a defense had zero tackles for a loss, zero sacks, zero turnovers, and just 2 pass defenses.
The offense lost this game, but the defense didn't help.
The stats may not be appealing but this wasn't on the defense. Hell the Giants even won the time of possession. It wasn't pretty by the defense, but after that first td they settled down. Had the offense actually showed up in the first two games the Giants would have wins. A running game would do wonders for both sides of the ball
WTF is with Jenkins? 2nd time he gets torched on the 1st series of the game by a nobody.
OLine blows, but the safety or slot blitz was what got them last night. I turned it off at halftime, but up til then Flowers was easily handling Lawrence. Omameh was the weak link, Sad to say, but Jerry need to start.
Buck up boys, they'll be in position for the "Franchise" QB come may. Then draft 3 OL after.
Another season of this shit is gonna be hard to take.
Agree. Rooting for draft picks last year wasn't fun but unless something drastically changes, it looks like that's what I'll be doing again this season! SMFH
WTF is with Jenkins? 2nd time he gets torched on the 1st series of the game by a nobody.
OLine blows, but the safety or slot blitz was what got them last night. I turned it off at halftime, but up til then Flowers was easily handling Lawrence. Omameh was the weak link, Sad to say, but Jerry need to start.
Buck up boys, they'll be in position for the "Franchise" QB come may. Then draft 3 OL after.
Correction one Olineman and 2 Dlineman one of which will get hurt smh
that's not what they did - they know he's not the future but weren't sold on any of the QBs in this year's draft.
It's early, but judging by the first couple of games, the scouts and management should be fired if they weren't sold on this QB class. Next year's class is significantly less impressive. They will have to wait two years to have a shot at a franchise-quality QB, and then they will need to have one of the first two picks.
He wasn't in the league last year because even CLEVELAND fired his ass! I posted about him last week and there was a reason that the Browns got rid of him. He is a horrible O Line coach and for whatever reason, he's now the G's sorrowful addition.
It's the NFL, not Harvard. O Linemen do as good Marines do. They do what they're told and it was painfully present last night that they weren't taught how to pick up stunts that haven't worked since the 1970s.
In comment 14080054 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
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In comment 14079644 bc4life said:
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that's not what they did - they know he's not the future but weren't sold on any of the QBs in this year's draft.
It's early, but judging by the first couple of games, the scouts and management should be fired if they weren't sold on this QB class. Next year's class is significantly less impressive. They will have to wait two years to have a shot at a franchise-quality QB, and then they will need to have one of the first two picks.
Depending on who comes out there are potentially a couple of pretty good QB prospects. It's not as deep a class, but it's not totally lacking in prospects.
I said on several occasions that the Giants will regret Â
I don't believe MGMT went with Barkley because they believe Eli is a superstar. I don't think they believe he can carry the team like he once could.
I think they went Barkley because they think Eli can win if there is a running game. I agree with that. I don't think it has to be the best running game in the league. I think any running game at all would make a huge difference.
RE: I said on several occasions that the Giants will regret Â
Lost in the offensive mess, the defense finished the night with no sacks, no tackles for a loss, only two pass defenses, and no turnovers.
Bingo. This league is about making plays. Sacks, picks, strips. Giving up a couple of TD's, a bunch of punts gets you a participation trophy.
and yet, Dallas only scored 20 and was given 3 points with the turnover. Considering how bad the offense was and that they had no splash plays, they held up surprisingly well.
It all begins and ends up front. The line can’t run block.... Â
and and the clock is running so quickly in Eli’s head, that he rushes even on the rare occasions he gets time. You won’t have to worry about Eli too much longer anyway, because I really believe this line is going to get him hurt this year.
On the other side of the ball, 0 sacks, 0 tackles for loss. No impact players over on that side of the ball.
not picking up stunts or getting movement for the run. Barkley was hit in the backfield every single play. If he wasn't so good, he would have had negative total yards. Eli had no time or pocket to throw. Feels SO HOPELESS!
RE: RE: I said on several occasions that the Giants will regret Â
drafting Barkley and passing on Josh Allen. My opinion has not changed.
Not just Allen. They had their choice of 3 guys. They blew it and now they have to own it.
And regarding Barkley: he’s probably not cracking 1000 yards this year. Not exactly “touched by the hand of God” stuff.
None of the QBs they passed on have the track records of great NFL QBs. They didn't pass on Andrew Luck-type prospects. Heck, they didn't even pass on Eli/Rivers/Big Ben level prospects. Maybe one of them (or all three) will be great, but the odds are against it. Drafting a QB just because you need one even though they're not the right one is how teams end up in QB purgatory, not because they played another past his sell-by date.
As for this game, I didn't think the Giants were going to win anyway, but to see it play out was extremely disheartening. If it wasn't for the Cardinals, the Giants would be the worst team in the NFL. They are just seriously talent and depth deficient in so many areas. The offensive line was somehow worse than it was in the opener. They looked like they hadn't practiced all week... perhaps all summer. They've been non-competitive through 2 weeks. Eli Manning may be shot, but it's so hard to analyze that independent of an o-line that looks worse than anything else I see in the NFL.
The defense was okay at best. Giving up a TD to a struggling offense in 3 plays to start the game was a major kick in the nuts. Their effort is good, but they lack talent in the front 7 with the notable exception of Snacks. Ogletree has been a net negative so far (EE ran him over multiple times) and guys like Kareem Martin and Barwin should be bench guys, not starters. How many times can they fall for the run option? (Oh great, we have Deshaun Watson next week.) Eli Apple was playing well again, so of course he got hurt. Riley appears to be the next in a long line of free safeties who're free of talent. His angles are terrible and he's missing tackles.
I know it's just two weeks, but I'm not sure what exactly Pat Shurmur is bringing to the table. They looked almost exactly the same in Dallas last season (without Odell or Barkley) with the guy who supposedly couldn't coach.
It’s also scary that DG and Shurm both thought Eli has a lot left in the tank after evaluating him last year. He is toast.
What some of the fans here fail to recognize is that Eli’s lack of mobility greatly affects how teams play him. On obvious passing downs rushers are coming FULL TILT after Eli. Very few QBs see all out rushers like Eli because rushers know Eli can’t get away from them. It’s not like Rodgers, Stafford, Luck, Wilson, or 80% of other QBs where guys have to have controlled rushes as not to give up scrambling lanes. Teams know that moment Eli has to move that they have the advantage. There is no consequence for selling all out against Eli.
Untrue. The Giants have been band-aiding one year after the other, believing that with Eli they had a secure shot at another title, having won 2 already.
Since 2011, that hope has keep them right at the brink, refusing to make major, wholesale changes. They decide to fire TC? They give McAdoo the job. They can Reese? They give the nod to Gettleman.
Everything has been with the belief that they're just a few tweaks here or there from the promised land, and the results prove that they're extremely wrong.
That last drive was encouraging...by the Optimists.
Shurmur was the right hire...by the McAdoo is Satan crowd...
Barkley was the best pick ever...by the style over substance crowd.
OBJ was still worth the money...by the OBJ makes the best one handed catches crowd...
Am I missing anything?
I stopped reading after your first line of ignorance.
Shephard, Engram, Latimer, were nonexistent. Shurmer NEEDS to justify his playcalling. We should demand to know how they prepared for this game and what their offensive philosophy was for this game.
Might as well start Lauletta next week against Houston. Can't be worse than what we already are, the worst team in the NFC.
Actually that goes to the cardinals they have scored 6 points in 2 games losing 34 to 0 today.
Let that one sink in for a minute.
Actually Greco didn’t look too bad, but this might be an opportunity now for a guy like Pulley. Greco is the back up at Center and Guard and so, I think it might be Pulley now.
Lost in the offensive mess, the defense finished the night with no sacks, no tackles for a loss, only two pass defenses, and no turnovers.
Lost in the offensive mess, the defense finished the night with no sacks, no tackles for a loss, only two pass defenses, and no turnovers.
Bingo. This league is about making plays. Sacks, picks, strips. Giving up a couple of TD's, a bunch of punts gets you a participation trophy.
But Jax didn't have game film on what the Giants/Shurmur were going to do, so they played it straight up and applied pretty good pressure with their talent.
Tonight...Dallas figured they would test the Giants with pressure - and I feel the Giants felt Dallas would lay back - and Dallas was simply all over them.
Going forward, the Giants are going to be blitzed like tonight until they prove they can stop it.
and move Hernandez over I know that he would be making a
Transition but you never know maybe that’s the move to try
At this time I mean they need to do something .......
They miss Vernon and hopefully Carter grows up quick. They're not egtting mush pass rush from Martin Barwin has a few miles left - but he's a speller, not a starter at this point
They miss Vernon and hopefully Carter grows up quick. They're not egtting mush pass rush from Martin Barwin has a few miles left - but he's a speller, not a starter at this point
Fuck Vernon and barwins getting shaken out of his shoes. Just another eagle taken by the giants who had a fork in his back
They miss Vernon and hopefully Carter grows up quick. They're not egtting mush pass rush from Martin Barwin has a few miles left - but he's a speller, not a starter at this point
Ehhh..those two INTs were exactly easy. The defense recovered and played decently after those first two drives, but the lack of sacks - and pressure - was most disappointing to me.
Any offensive production would have made this a ball game.
Barwin had a knockdown, almost pick and knocked a pass down last week. He's made some plays - but he's not a starter at this point.
If anything, they might want to mix some caution with that aggressive direction the defense is heading. Some of the plays they are giving up is due to team's taking advantage of theri aggression.
First one would have been a helluva play - Deayon should have pulled that in.
Lost in the offensive mess, the defense finished the night with no sacks, no tackles for a loss, only two pass defenses, and no turnovers.
It is not like Dallas was going up and down the field on us they held Elliot to 78 on 17 carries and Dak had 160 yards in which 64 came on one play. The defense kept the game close and it was the offense that didn't take advantage.
Barwin had a knockdown, almost pick and knocked a pass down last week. He's made some plays - but he's not a starter at this point.
If anything, they might want to mix some caution with that aggressive direction the defense is heading. Some of the plays they are giving up is due to team's taking advantage of theri aggression.
They’ll be winless whenever he shows up. He’ll be a huge help in getting all his close but no cigar pressures/sacks then. Another FA loser.
The offense lost this game, but the defense didn't help.
The offense lost this game, but the defense didn't help.
The stats may not be appealing but this wasn't on the defense. Hell the Giants even won the time of possession. It wasn't pretty by the defense, but after that first td they settled down. Had the offense actually showed up in the first two games the Giants would have wins. A running game would do wonders for both sides of the ball
Elliott has only 78 yards - 1 pass play = about 40% of their passing yards.
no sacks - but a lot of hurries
There really are only about two really good OLs. So he’s fucked
WTF is with Jenkins? 2nd time he gets torched on the 1st series of the game by a nobody.
OLine blows, but the safety or slot blitz was what got them last night. I turned it off at halftime, but up til then Flowers was easily handling Lawrence. Omameh was the weak link, Sad to say, but Jerry need to start.
Buck up boys, they'll be in position for the "Franchise" QB come may. Then draft 3 OL after.
Agree. Rooting for draft picks last year wasn't fun but unless something drastically changes, it looks like that's what I'll be doing again this season! SMFH
WTF is with Jenkins? 2nd time he gets torched on the 1st series of the game by a nobody.
OLine blows, but the safety or slot blitz was what got them last night. I turned it off at halftime, but up til then Flowers was easily handling Lawrence. Omameh was the weak link, Sad to say, but Jerry need to start.
Buck up boys, they'll be in position for the "Franchise" QB come may. Then draft 3 OL after.
Correction one Olineman and 2 Dlineman one of which will get hurt smh
It's early, but judging by the first couple of games, the scouts and management should be fired if they weren't sold on this QB class. Next year's class is significantly less impressive. They will have to wait two years to have a shot at a franchise-quality QB, and then they will need to have one of the first two picks.
It's the NFL, not Harvard. O Linemen do as good Marines do. They do what they're told and it was painfully present last night that they weren't taught how to pick up stunts that haven't worked since the 1970s.
Quote:
that's not what they did - they know he's not the future but weren't sold on any of the QBs in this year's draft.
It's early, but judging by the first couple of games, the scouts and management should be fired if they weren't sold on this QB class. Next year's class is significantly less impressive. They will have to wait two years to have a shot at a franchise-quality QB, and then they will need to have one of the first two picks.
Depending on who comes out there are potentially a couple of pretty good QB prospects. It's not as deep a class, but it's not totally lacking in prospects.
I think they went Barkley because they think Eli can win if there is a running game. I agree with that. I don't think it has to be the best running game in the league. I think any running game at all would make a huge difference.
Not just Allen. They had their choice of 3 guys. They blew it and now they have to own it.
And regarding Barkley: he’s probably not cracking 1000 yards this year. Not exactly “touched by the hand of God” stuff.
...era is over with the Giants.
We may see Eli starting every game this year (and maybe next year as well), but that's not the MVP Eli Manning of two Super Bowls.
It's a very sad facsimile.
Quote:
a train wreck...
Lost in the offensive mess, the defense finished the night with no sacks, no tackles for a loss, only two pass defenses, and no turnovers.
Bingo. This league is about making plays. Sacks, picks, strips. Giving up a couple of TD's, a bunch of punts gets you a participation trophy.
and yet, Dallas only scored 20 and was given 3 points with the turnover. Considering how bad the offense was and that they had no splash plays, they held up surprisingly well.
On the other side of the ball, 0 sacks, 0 tackles for loss. No impact players over on that side of the ball.
Quote:
drafting Barkley and passing on Josh Allen. My opinion has not changed.
Not just Allen. They had their choice of 3 guys. They blew it and now they have to own it.
And regarding Barkley: he’s probably not cracking 1000 yards this year. Not exactly “touched by the hand of God” stuff.
None of the QBs they passed on have the track records of great NFL QBs. They didn't pass on Andrew Luck-type prospects. Heck, they didn't even pass on Eli/Rivers/Big Ben level prospects. Maybe one of them (or all three) will be great, but the odds are against it. Drafting a QB just because you need one even though they're not the right one is how teams end up in QB purgatory, not because they played another past his sell-by date.
As for this game, I didn't think the Giants were going to win anyway, but to see it play out was extremely disheartening. If it wasn't for the Cardinals, the Giants would be the worst team in the NFL. They are just seriously talent and depth deficient in so many areas. The offensive line was somehow worse than it was in the opener. They looked like they hadn't practiced all week... perhaps all summer. They've been non-competitive through 2 weeks. Eli Manning may be shot, but it's so hard to analyze that independent of an o-line that looks worse than anything else I see in the NFL.
The defense was okay at best. Giving up a TD to a struggling offense in 3 plays to start the game was a major kick in the nuts. Their effort is good, but they lack talent in the front 7 with the notable exception of Snacks. Ogletree has been a net negative so far (EE ran him over multiple times) and guys like Kareem Martin and Barwin should be bench guys, not starters. How many times can they fall for the run option? (Oh great, we have Deshaun Watson next week.) Eli Apple was playing well again, so of course he got hurt. Riley appears to be the next in a long line of free safeties who're free of talent. His angles are terrible and he's missing tackles.
I know it's just two weeks, but I'm not sure what exactly Pat Shurmur is bringing to the table. They looked almost exactly the same in Dallas last season (without Odell or Barkley) with the guy who supposedly couldn't coach.
Quote:
Eli still has it. He just needs ten more seconds...from the Eli Apologists.
That last drive was encouraging...by the Optimists.
Shurmur was the right hire...by the McAdoo is Satan crowd...
Barkley was the best pick ever...by the style over substance crowd.
OBJ was still worth the money...by the OBJ makes the best one handed catches crowd...
Am I missing anything?
I stopped reading after your first line of ignorance.
It's always easier to just attack others than to discuss the issues, really there is one main issue, there is NO O-line.
Lost in the offensive mess, the defense finished the night with no sacks, no tackles for a loss, only two pass defenses, and no turnovers.
Yet still had only given up 13 points going into the 4th qtr. And 3 of those points were from Eli’s turnover at the 30. They aren’t the problem.
Coughlin would use this to motivate this sorry franchise to crush NE!
Coughlin would use this to motivate this sorry franchise to crush NE!
What we saw last night were the same Giants team that existed under McAdoo, and the same Giants team that existed the last few years under Coughlin.
A lot of people seem to forget how ill prepared and undisciplined this team was the last few years under TC.