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For all you Qb change guys...

OBJ_AllDay : 9/16/2018 11:21 pm
Nobody and I repeat nobody would be effective behind this dumpster fire of a line. Rodgers, Marino, Brady, darnold, you name it... we have a rb who can’t be tackled by the first or second guy right on him and he goes 11 for 28? How long do we have to say we have the worst o line in the nfl? It’s been trending that way since goddamn 2011. How hard is it to find a warm body that can hold a block for 2 seconds or recognize a stunt? It’s gonna be a long season.
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People here  
WillVAB : 9/16/2018 11:54 pm : link
Must not watch other games besides the Giants. If guys run free at the QB negative plays happen regardless of the QB. Cousins took sacks and made plenty of bad passes today when that happened. The difference was he was getting a clean pocket more often than not.

The people that think a mobile QB is the magic bullet need to look at Watson this year. They’re 0-2 this year just like we are.
RE: I've seen this said before  
WillVAB : 9/16/2018 11:56 pm : link
In comment 14079670 AcesUp said:
Quote:


Quote:


Nobody and I repeat nobody would be effective behind this dumpster fire of a line. Rodgers



And these people have clearly not been watching the Packers and Rodgers the last few years. Stop saying this, I cannot put into words how inaccurate this is.


Rodgers would’ve sustained a hair line fracture in his vagina years ago behind this OL.
Eli is absolutely finished  
Jim in Forest Hills : 9/16/2018 11:56 pm : link
BECAUSE he has this OL!

The GIANTS are not competitive this year because Eli cannot function. This was a 3-13 team with tons of holes. No point in bringing Eli back to this.
Rodgers  
AcesUp : 9/17/2018 12:01 am : link
Quote:
Rodgers would’ve sustained a hair line fracture in his vagina years ago behind this OL.


His line was just as bad as this one is last year, he put up points. His line is still mediocre, he puts up points. Although it's not fair to compare any QB to him though which makes this argument so stupid.
RE: Eli is absolutely finished  
AcesUp : 9/17/2018 12:02 am : link
In comment 14079694 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
BECAUSE he has this OL!

The GIANTS are not competitive this year because Eli cannot function. This was a 3-13 team with tons of holes. No point in bringing Eli back to this.


It's both.
OP and others like him delusional  
giantstock : 9/17/2018 12:05 am : link
We can see here hw wthe narrative by the OP and others is trying to be changed here.

"US QB Guys" never thought the G-Men would try to win this year. The G_men are/ or should be in rebuild mode. That's why we need a QB change. And as a result, instead of going after Solder you go after young guy OL. What's even laughable is that the GMen traded their better center.

They should have taken the QB and this year to start with made Webb or another QB their sacrificial lamb. Thus the point the OP and other make which is absurd of how nobody could have helped at QB in a game like this is correct. But that's why the GMen should have thought of rebuilding!

This team is a train wreck. Not even worth pointing fingers at  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 9/17/2018 12:07 am : link
certain players and positions. A shortage of talent and very low morale among the players good enough to be on the roster.

Giants need major leader like Patton or Parcells with near-dictatorial powers to build confidence in the good players and prospects and to start on the long road to turning over half the roster.
RE: Rodgers  
WillVAB : 9/17/2018 12:10 am : link
In comment 14079718 AcesUp said:
Quote:


Quote:


Rodgers would’ve sustained a hair line fracture in his vagina years ago behind this OL.



His line was just as bad as this one is last year, he put up points. His line is still mediocre, he puts up points. Although it's not fair to compare any QB to him though which makes this argument so stupid.


If you think Green Bay’s offensive line is just as bad as the Giants you don’t know what you’re watching.
RE: This team is a train wreck. Not even worth pointing fingers at  
OBJ_AllDay : 9/17/2018 12:13 am : link
In comment 14079750 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:
Quote:
certain players and positions. A shortage of talent and very low morale among the players good enough to be on the roster.

Giants need major leader like Patton or Parcells with near-dictatorial powers to build confidence in the good players and prospects and to start on the long road to turning over half the roster.


Agreed
They're blocking for two entirely different guys  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 12:14 am : link
Rodgers has had bad OLs during his tenure in GB - it's just that he's a lot more mobile than Eli is.

Part of the problem here is Eli's immobility. I don't know why that's so hard to accept for some; is there another QB in the NFL that's as immobile as Eli?
RE: RE: Rodgers  
AcesUp : 9/17/2018 12:17 am : link
In comment 14079768 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14079718 AcesUp said:


Quote:




Quote:


Rodgers would’ve sustained a hair line fracture in his vagina years ago behind this OL.



His line was just as bad as this one is last year, he put up points. His line is still mediocre, he puts up points. Although it's not fair to compare any QB to him though which makes this argument so stupid.



If you think Green Bay’s offensive line is just as bad as the Giants you don’t know what you’re watching.


I don't know as much as some but I know enough to know I'm right there. If you're under the impression that Rodgers has been operating from a clean pocket all of these years then you're not even watching them play, let alone "knowing what you're watching". They've experienced turnover and injuries over the years, and there have been spells where their line has been WORSE than this one is.
RE: They're blocking for two entirely different guys  
WillVAB : 9/17/2018 12:18 am : link
In comment 14079793 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Rodgers has had bad OLs during his tenure in GB - it's just that he's a lot more mobile than Eli is.

Part of the problem here is Eli's immobility. I don't know why that's so hard to accept for some; is there another QB in the NFL that's as immobile as Eli?


He’s always been that way. It’s not like he just suddenly became immobile 2 years ago. People here act shocked that Eli doesn’t make plays with his legs when he’s never been that guy. Then they want to scapegoat him instead of the FO that hasn’t been able to put together a decent line in 8 years.
This is horseshit  
KWALL2 : 9/17/2018 12:23 am : link
Quote:
Nobody and I repeat nobody would be effective...


If you start with a line of BS like that, nobody but a few Eli cheerleaders, will agree with that line of horseshit.
RE: RE: RE: Rodgers  
WillVAB : 9/17/2018 12:24 am : link
In comment 14079802 AcesUp said:
Quote:
In comment 14079768 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 14079718 AcesUp said:


Quote:




Quote:


Rodgers would’ve sustained a hair line fracture in his vagina years ago behind this OL.



His line was just as bad as this one is last year, he put up points. His line is still mediocre, he puts up points. Although it's not fair to compare any QB to him though which makes this argument so stupid.



If you think Green Bay’s offensive line is just as bad as the Giants you don’t know what you’re watching.



I don't know as much as some but I know enough to know I'm right there. If you're under the impression that Rodgers has been operating from a clean pocket all of these years then you're not even watching them play, let alone "knowing what you're watching". They've experienced turnover and injuries over the years, and there have been spells where their line has been WORSE than this one is.


I haven’t seen Rodgers play behind an OL as bad as the ‘16 to present Giants OL his entire career. He hasn’t been behind Dallas or Philly lines but generally he’s played behind OL that pass block reasonably well. There’s nothing comparable about any of his lines and the Giants OL.
WillVAB  
AcesUp : 9/17/2018 12:26 am : link
Quote:
I haven’t seen Rodgers play behind an OL as bad as the ‘16 to present Giants OL his entire career. He hasn’t been behind Dallas or Philly lines but generally he’s played behind OL that pass block reasonably well. There’s nothing comparable about any of his lines and the Giants OL.


Then I guessed you missed a bunch of primetime games that the Packers have played in over the past few years.
That's not because of the talent on OL in GB - that's *BECAUSE*  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 12:26 am : link
of Rodgers. His mobility masked the OL's inability to block.

That's also why the guy has gotten knocked around quite a few times, because he's had to go on the run and taken a beating.
Bullshit  
The_Boss : 9/17/2018 12:27 am : link
There were plays to be made in both games. Eli doesn’t make them anymore, and, quite honestly, hasn’t consistently in a very long time.
RE: RE: They're blocking for two entirely different guys  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 12:29 am : link
In comment 14079806 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14079793 jcn56 said:


Quote:


Rodgers has had bad OLs during his tenure in GB - it's just that he's a lot more mobile than Eli is.

Part of the problem here is Eli's immobility. I don't know why that's so hard to accept for some; is there another QB in the NFL that's as immobile as Eli?



He’s always been that way. It’s not like he just suddenly became immobile 2 years ago. People here act shocked that Eli doesn’t make plays with his legs when he’s never been that guy. Then they want to scapegoat him instead of the FO that hasn’t been able to put together a decent line in 8 years.


He hasn't always been that way - he's a 14 year veteran, are you suggesting he hasn't slowed down not one bit?

Eli used to be better at avoiding pressure and moving up in the pocket. He never had perfectly clean pockets to work with, although the dogshit OLs of the past few years have been much worse. The combination of faster speed rushers, a decline in OL play around the league, and Eli slowing down has exacerbated that problem in the worst way.
A fair point to make would be,,,  
KWALL2 : 9/17/2018 12:30 am : link
you have no fucking clue...

It may be harsh. But its fair.

Come on...
Quote:
I haven’t seen Rodgers play behind an OL...


I'm guessing you're a casual fan. right?

So...just maybe not the guy to make this statement. Right?
RE: WillVAB  
WillVAB : 9/17/2018 12:30 am : link
In comment 14079840 AcesUp said:
Quote:


Quote:


I haven’t seen Rodgers play behind an OL as bad as the ‘16 to present Giants OL his entire career. He hasn’t been behind Dallas or Philly lines but generally he’s played behind OL that pass block reasonably well. There’s nothing comparable about any of his lines and the Giants OL.



Then I guessed you missed a bunch of primetime games that the Packers have played in over the past few years.


The only QB in the league that’s played behind a line comparable to the Giants the last few years is Russell Wilson and they haven’t won much either.

A mobile QB won’t solve the problem. Games are won in the trenches and you have to have a group that’s somewhat decent.
RE: Exactly..  
The_Boss : 9/17/2018 12:30 am : link
In comment 14079603 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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how is this true??



Quote:


Everything we’ve seen to this point has proven us to be right (even though Barkley has been great).



We'd still be 0-2 with the same OL.

If you think anything has proven anyone right or wrong right now that's about as short-sighted and moronic as you can be.


I’d rather be 0-2 and have holes all over the damn roster with a 22 year old QB waiting in the wings.
RE: RE: RE: They're blocking for two entirely different guys  
WillVAB : 9/17/2018 12:35 am : link
In comment 14079853 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14079806 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 14079793 jcn56 said:


Quote:


Rodgers has had bad OLs during his tenure in GB - it's just that he's a lot more mobile than Eli is.

Part of the problem here is Eli's immobility. I don't know why that's so hard to accept for some; is there another QB in the NFL that's as immobile as Eli?



He’s always been that way. It’s not like he just suddenly became immobile 2 years ago. People here act shocked that Eli doesn’t make plays with his legs when he’s never been that guy. Then they want to scapegoat him instead of the FO that hasn’t been able to put together a decent line in 8 years.



He hasn't always been that way - he's a 14 year veteran, are you suggesting he hasn't slowed down not one bit?

Eli used to be better at avoiding pressure and moving up in the pocket. He never had perfectly clean pockets to work with, although the dogshit OLs of the past few years have been much worse. The combination of faster speed rushers, a decline in OL play around the league, and Eli slowing down has exacerbated that problem in the worst way.


In the past pressure wasn’t coming from 2-3 guys getting beat. It was usually just Diehl beat off the edge and he’d just step up. Look at where the pressure came from tonight — all over the place. When Flowers has the best game you know your OL didn’t have a good night.
Which past are you referring to?  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 12:40 am : link
In 2011 Eli faced all sorts of pressure (shit, just go back and look at the 2011 NFCC). That was the season he gets the most credit for, because he danced around to find time to get the ball to his WRs.

He's not that player anymore. Not sure why that's so hard to accept, the guy is 7 years older, people age.
And that's not to say anyone's expecting him to pull a Rodgers  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 12:41 am : link
and run for 20 yards - that's just expecting the mobility/agility to move in the pocket enough to find a lane and throw the ball.
RE: Which past are you referring to?  
WillVAB : 9/17/2018 12:45 am : link
In comment 14079889 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In 2011 Eli faced all sorts of pressure (shit, just go back and look at the 2011 NFCC). That was the season he gets the most credit for, because he danced around to find time to get the ball to his WRs.

He's not that player anymore. Not sure why that's so hard to accept, the guy is 7 years older, people age.


I’d trade this OL for the ‘11 OL in a heartbeat.
And how many games has Rodgers  
SHO'NUFF : 9/17/2018 1:08 am : link
missed in his career?
RE: And how many games has Rodgers  
AcesUp : 9/17/2018 1:15 am : link
In comment 14079946 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
missed in his career?


What point are you trying to make here? I have a feeling it's the wrong one.
It’s clear that Eli can’t function behind this line  
exiled : 9/17/2018 2:48 am : link
That game was brutal. If they weren’t going to cobble together even a mediocre line, they probably should have gone in another direction at QB.

It’s just the worst of combinations.
RE: Put a guy back there  
montanagiant : 9/17/2018 3:02 am : link
In comment 14079450 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
With some legs and you can get more creative with moving the pocket and RPO’s etc to keep the defense off balance. Right now Eli is a fucking statue with jittery feet so the defense can pin their ears back and keep blitzing and just checking down to Barkley every time. The offense has been the same predicatable nonsense that can’t score under 3 separate coaches. Thats not a coincidence.

So yes, the oline needs to block better but to say nobody would be able to produce behind this oline is a naive statement without acknowledging how a mobile QB affects the defenses ability to bring pressure.
LOL...SO tell us all who would be able to do that?
A qb with legs at least keeps the opposing team D honest  
micky : 9/17/2018 6:10 am : link
And not a predictable straight free will rush with statue goober
RE: A qb with legs at least keeps the opposing team D honest  
dep026 : 9/17/2018 6:14 am : link
In comment 14080045 micky said:
Quote:
And not a predictable straight free will rush with statue goober


So a Marcus Mariota or Tyrod Taylor, right?
RE: RE: A qb with legs at least keeps the opposing team D honest  
micky : 9/17/2018 6:25 am : link
In comment 14080048 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14080045 micky said:


Quote:


And not a predictable straight free will rush with statue goober



So a Marcus Mariota or Tyrod Taylor, right?


Doesnt have to be the Most one demensional mobile qb like seen ala vick etc..one who can improvise, move to where the defense no longer can pin their ears back and know the qb is going to be in the pocket..ala eli...

Some of the qb in this past draft couldve filled the roll and at first still produce the same, if not, better than you know who.

Barkley, and rest would benefit as well trickle down effect
RE: RE: RE: A qb with legs at least keeps the opposing team D honest  
dep026 : 9/17/2018 6:26 am : link
In comment 14080060 micky said:
Quote:
In comment 14080048 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14080045 micky said:


Quote:


And not a predictable straight free will rush with statue goober



So a Marcus Mariota or Tyrod Taylor, right?



Doesnt have to be the Most one demensional mobile qb like seen ala vick etc..one who can improvise, move to where the defense no longer can pin their ears back and know the qb is going to be in the pocket..ala eli...

Some of the qb in this past draft couldve filled the roll and at first still produce the same, if not, better than you know who.

Barkley, and rest would benefit as well trickle down effect


So like a Dak, Tanneheill, Case Keenum type?
Too bad, and im not basing on how hes playing now,  
micky : 9/17/2018 6:31 am : link
A Mahommes, whom ALSO, has an arm and diverse, run, pass, etc
RE: Too bad, and im not basing on how hes playing now,  
dep026 : 9/17/2018 6:32 am : link
In comment 14080065 micky said:
Quote:
A Mahommes, whom ALSO, has an arm and diverse, run, pass, etc


He also has an excellent OL and the best skill players in the NFL. If he were here, my suspicison is he would struggle mightily to start.
RE: RE: Too bad, and im not basing on how hes playing now,  
micky : 9/17/2018 6:33 am : link
In comment 14080067 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14080065 micky said:


Quote:


A Mahommes, whom ALSO, has an arm and diverse, run, pass, etc



He also has an excellent OL and the best skill players in the NFL. If he were here, my suspicison is he would struggle mightily to start.


I bet not as much as seeing with a statue now
If the first attribute you look for in a QB  
dep026 : 9/17/2018 6:35 am : link
is to avoid unblocked defenders, you may have to rethink your priotiries as a fan.
Plus kc althought better (not saying much when compared to the hog  
micky : 9/17/2018 6:36 am : link
Follies) ol isnt worlds better than the best ols in league. Good, not great
RE: Plus kc althought better (not saying much when compared to the hog  
dep026 : 9/17/2018 6:39 am : link
In comment 14080074 micky said:
Quote:
Follies) ol isnt worlds better than the best ols in league. Good, not great


Actually yes it is. Kelce is an excellent blocking TE and there is a reason why their RB led the league in rushing last year.
RE: If the first attribute you look for in a QB  
micky : 9/17/2018 6:39 am : link
In comment 14080073 dep026 said:
Quote:
is to avoid unblocked defenders, you may have to rethink your priotiries as a fan.


Oh really? Didnt realize theres a prequisite to "being a fan"...i gueuss thats your idea..which is cool
You misread the statement  
dep026 : 9/17/2018 6:40 am : link
priorities as pertains the QB position, not as being a fan.
RE: You misread the statement  
micky : 9/17/2018 6:46 am : link
In comment 14080079 dep026 said:
Quote:
priorities as pertains the QB position, not as being a fan.


Yeah ummm not what you stated ..."not as being a fan"
The OL is not going to get better anytime soon..  
EricJ : 9/17/2018 7:05 am : link
and we have a QB who absolutely must have a clean pocket. It is actually the worst scenario we could have.

Eli is in self preservation mode the moment he sees any rush coming. Everyone hated that reverse camera angle last night but what it did was show exactly what Eli could see. We saw multiple times that there was an option for Eli to deliver the ball to an open target less than 10 yards ahead of him.

I do not necessarily blame Eli for this at all. It is what it is though and it will not change this year. I don't think this team is as bad as what we saw last night but we are not a good team either.

The good news for all of the guys who wanted a QB with our first pick is that we will have a shot at one this spring.
RE: If the first attribute you look for in a QB  
EricJ : 9/17/2018 7:09 am : link
In comment 14080073 dep026 said:
Quote:
is to avoid unblocked defenders, you may have to rethink your priotiries as a fan.


I agree with you that mobility is not the FIRST attribute. However, the league has evolved once again and the defensive line is much more athletic and dominant than those who play offensive line today. In fact, in other threads over the past two months I indicated that I would like to test (pre-season) putting an athletic DL at tackle to see what the matchup would look like when two guys with similar athletic ability go up against one another.

Anyway, it is due to this evolution that I believe mobility needs to be a skill that the QB has in his tool box to be successful in today's game. No.. not the first attribute but we can see that it has become important.
RE: RE: If the first attribute you look for in a QB  
dep026 : 9/17/2018 7:11 am : link
In comment 14080115 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14080073 dep026 said:


Quote:


is to avoid unblocked defenders, you may have to rethink your priotiries as a fan.



I agree with you that mobility is not the FIRST attribute. However, the league has evolved once again and the defensive line is much more athletic and dominant than those who play offensive line today. In fact, in other threads over the past two months I indicated that I would like to test (pre-season) putting an athletic DL at tackle to see what the matchup would look like when two guys with similar athletic ability go up against one another.

Anyway, it is due to this evolution that I believe mobility needs to be a skill that the QB has in his tool box to be successful in today's game. No.. not the first attribute but we can see that it has become important.


I wont disagree with any of that. But when it HAS to be the first attribute in order to play behind this OLine..... then the problems are much, much, much deeper than the QB position.
Opposing teams only need to put up 10 points  
Jimmy Googs : 9/17/2018 7:18 am : link
before the Giants start going for it on 4th down on their side of the field.

The desperation of what is going on here is shocking.

And it’s only week 2 which makes this fukin scary...
Change the title of the thread  
Jimmy Googs : 9/17/2018 7:28 am : link
For all you guys that want to see a team score points...
RE: Opposing teams only need to put up 10 points  
montanagiant : 9/17/2018 11:15 am : link
In comment 14080129 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
before the Giants start going for it on 4th down on their side of the field.

The desperation of what is going on here is shocking.

And it’s only week 2 which makes this fukin scary...

You know what's fucking hilarious about this? is I am willing to bet you were screaming at the TV to go for it when they punted on the first 4th and 1.

Yoiu have literally become a joke
RE: RE: A qb with legs at least keeps the opposing team D honest  
allstarjim : 9/17/2018 1:08 pm : link
In comment 14080048 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14080045 micky said:


Quote:


And not a predictable straight free will rush with statue goober



So a Marcus Mariota or Tyrod Taylor, right?


Tyrod Taylor had his team in the playoffs last year. Giants won 3 games.

I'm not saying I want Tyrod Taylor as our next QB. I'm not saying I want a run-first QB or that rush avoidance is the most important factor in a QB, but it is PART of the package a QB must have in the current NFL to succeed, with very rare exceptions.
Tyrod Taylor  
AcesUp : 9/17/2018 1:22 pm : link
This team, as presently constructed, would be more competitive with Tyrod Taylor under center than Eli Manning. I would make that swap without hesitation. If we were built like the Jaguars or Chiefs? I would go with Eli...but I would have to think. They're both replacement level/bridge QBs at this point their respective careers, it's just a matter of what best fits your team. Unfortunately, Eli's biggest strength, his experience and ability to elevate his game when it matters, is useless on a team that is unlikely to make the playoffs.
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