Nobody and I repeat nobody would be effective behind this dumpster fire of a line. Rodgers, Marino, Brady, darnold, you name it... we have a rb who can’t be tackled by the first or second guy right on him and he goes 11 for 28? How long do we have to say we have the worst o line in the nfl? It’s been trending that way since goddamn 2011. How hard is it to find a warm body that can hold a block for 2 seconds or recognize a stunt? It’s gonna be a long season.
So yes, the oline needs to block better but to say nobody would be able to produce behind this oline is a naive statement without acknowledging how a mobile QB affects the defenses ability to bring pressure.
This was an IQ test, and the result was the Giants getting left back.
No matter if the OL gives up 6 sacks and can't pick up simple stunts.
no matter if collinsworth points out time and again that basic schemes aren't getting picked up.
No matter if you see Eli compete until the end and Michaels and Collinsworth talk about how difficult it is to have to get rid of the ball early time and again.
People will say he quit. That he sucks. That Barkley was the wrong choice and not understand what a shitshow the OL is.
What is obvious is that Eli can't function productively behind it.
So yes, the oline needs to block better but to say nobody would be able to produce behind this oline is a naive statement without acknowledging how a mobile QB affects the defenses ability to bring pressure.
Yup such a copout to say it's all on the offensive line. Guys all over the league have as bad as an offensive line, do much better than this Giants offense is doing with no Barkley or Beckham.
It's because Eli cannot escape pressure, cannot buy extra time, and struggles with ... everything.
Nobody thought that Davis Webb (or, insert name) was going to put on a helmet and start winning in 2018. Nobody.
There is a perfectly cogent argument to be made that it was the right time to get Eli’s cap number off the books, dead cap and all, since absolutely nobody is winning anything with this OL.
One does not need to “blame” Eli to say it was time to move on.
Ours is worse. Seattle was able to run block for Marshawn Lynch.
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With some legs and you can get more creative with moving the pocket and RPO’s etc to keep the defense off balance. Right now Eli is a fucking statue with jittery feet so the defense can pin their ears back and keep blitzing and just checking down to Barkley every time. The offense has been the same predicatable nonsense that can’t score under 3 separate coaches. Thats not a coincidence.
So yes, the oline needs to block better but to say nobody would be able to produce behind this oline is a naive statement without acknowledging how a mobile QB affects the defenses ability to bring pressure.
Yup such a copout to say it's all on the offensive line. Guys all over the league have as bad as an offensive line, do much better than this Giants offense is doing with no Barkley or Beckham.
It's because Eli cannot escape pressure, cannot buy extra time, and struggles with ... everything.
No.
Behind a league average line Barkley goes for 100 yards tonight.
What is obvious is that Eli can't function productively behind it.
Stop what? We are seeing untouched fkin rushers repeatedly in games that’s inescusable u want Beckham to play qb? Cause that’s the only way we have a damn chance if this shit keeps happening. We are relying on qb spin moves to create time for recovers to get open now? UNTOUCHED RUSHERS multiple times in a game is a fkin abomination!!!!
He's better than Reese though right?
No matter if the OL gives up 6 sacks and can't pick up simple stunts.
no matter if collinsworth points out time and again that basic schemes aren't getting picked up.
No matter if you see Eli compete until the end and Michaels and Collinsworth talk about how difficult it is to have to get rid of the ball early time and again.
People will say he quit. That he sucks. That Barkley was the wrong choice and not understand what a shitshow the OL is.
To be fair, many of us (me included) were saying Barkley was the wrong choice on draft night. Everything we’ve seen to this point has proven us to be right (even though Barkley has been great).
We'd still be 0-2 with the same OL.
If you think anything has proven anyone right or wrong right now that's about as short-sighted and moronic as you can be.
That doesn't mean the OL isn't an embarrassment and a laughing stock because it clear is. That also doesn't mean Barkley wasn't a horrible pick because he was.
That's not a judgement on his talent which is there for all to see but a judgement of the people who run the Giants and their lack of understanding of the importance of line play on both sides of the ball and what wins games in the NFL.
.
No matter if the OL gives up 6 sacks and can't pick up simple stunts.
no matter if collinsworth points out time and again that basic schemes aren't getting picked up.
No matter if you see Eli compete until the end and Michaels and Collinsworth talk about how difficult it is to have to get rid of the ball early time and again.
People will say he quit. That he sucks. That Barkley was the wrong choice and not understand what a shitshow the OL is.
Double down on stupid.
Stupid...
Talking about doubling down on being a troll...
Every team would be better with Rodgers at QB what an asinine argument.
Fact of the matter is the Oline can't pick up simple stunts, Nothing crazy or difficult just simple. Barkley is lucky to move anywhere behind this line, as was mentioned tonight the dude never lets the first guy get him down but that first guy is getting to him behind the line. IS eli shell shocked? Id say so if he gets a clean pocket he can step up like he did on the final drive but how often did that actually occur?
No matter if the OL gives up 6 sacks and can't pick up simple stunts.
no matter if collinsworth points out time and again that basic schemes aren't getting picked up.
No matter if you see Eli compete until the end and Michaels and Collinsworth talk about how difficult it is to have to get rid of the ball early time and again.
People will say he quit. That he sucks. That Barkley was the wrong choice and not understand what a shitshow the OL is.
Fans that make those statements are low football IQ. This game, as with many since 2011, prove the old adage that "football games are won/lost in the trench."
And these people have clearly not been watching the Packers and Rodgers the last few years. Stop saying this, I cannot put into words how inaccurate this is.
0-7 where do you see the win coming from?/ clowney and watt next week can’t wait for that
The people that think a mobile QB is the magic bullet need to look at Watson this year. They’re 0-2 this year just like we are.
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Nobody and I repeat nobody would be effective behind this dumpster fire of a line. Rodgers
And these people have clearly not been watching the Packers and Rodgers the last few years. Stop saying this, I cannot put into words how inaccurate this is.
Rodgers would’ve sustained a hair line fracture in his vagina years ago behind this OL.
The GIANTS are not competitive this year because Eli cannot function. This was a 3-13 team with tons of holes. No point in bringing Eli back to this.
His line was just as bad as this one is last year, he put up points. His line is still mediocre, he puts up points. Although it's not fair to compare any QB to him though which makes this argument so stupid.
The GIANTS are not competitive this year because Eli cannot function. This was a 3-13 team with tons of holes. No point in bringing Eli back to this.
It's both.
"US QB Guys" never thought the G-Men would try to win this year. The G_men are/ or should be in rebuild mode. That's why we need a QB change. And as a result, instead of going after Solder you go after young guy OL. What's even laughable is that the GMen traded their better center.
They should have taken the QB and this year to start with made Webb or another QB their sacrificial lamb. Thus the point the OP and other make which is absurd of how nobody could have helped at QB in a game like this is correct. But that's why the GMen should have thought of rebuilding!
Giants need major leader like Patton or Parcells with near-dictatorial powers to build confidence in the good players and prospects and to start on the long road to turning over half the roster.
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Rodgers would’ve sustained a hair line fracture in his vagina years ago behind this OL.
His line was just as bad as this one is last year, he put up points. His line is still mediocre, he puts up points. Although it's not fair to compare any QB to him though which makes this argument so stupid.
If you think Green Bay’s offensive line is just as bad as the Giants you don’t know what you’re watching.
Giants need major leader like Patton or Parcells with near-dictatorial powers to build confidence in the good players and prospects and to start on the long road to turning over half the roster.
Agreed
Part of the problem here is Eli's immobility. I don't know why that's so hard to accept for some; is there another QB in the NFL that's as immobile as Eli?
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Rodgers would’ve sustained a hair line fracture in his vagina years ago behind this OL.
His line was just as bad as this one is last year, he put up points. His line is still mediocre, he puts up points. Although it's not fair to compare any QB to him though which makes this argument so stupid.
If you think Green Bay’s offensive line is just as bad as the Giants you don’t know what you’re watching.
I don't know as much as some but I know enough to know I'm right there. If you're under the impression that Rodgers has been operating from a clean pocket all of these years then you're not even watching them play, let alone "knowing what you're watching". They've experienced turnover and injuries over the years, and there have been spells where their line has been WORSE than this one is.
Part of the problem here is Eli's immobility. I don't know why that's so hard to accept for some; is there another QB in the NFL that's as immobile as Eli?
He’s always been that way. It’s not like he just suddenly became immobile 2 years ago. People here act shocked that Eli doesn’t make plays with his legs when he’s never been that guy. Then they want to scapegoat him instead of the FO that hasn’t been able to put together a decent line in 8 years.
If you start with a line of BS like that, nobody but a few Eli cheerleaders, will agree with that line of horseshit.
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In comment 14079718 AcesUp said:
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Rodgers would’ve sustained a hair line fracture in his vagina years ago behind this OL.
His line was just as bad as this one is last year, he put up points. His line is still mediocre, he puts up points. Although it's not fair to compare any QB to him though which makes this argument so stupid.
If you think Green Bay’s offensive line is just as bad as the Giants you don’t know what you’re watching.
I don't know as much as some but I know enough to know I'm right there. If you're under the impression that Rodgers has been operating from a clean pocket all of these years then you're not even watching them play, let alone "knowing what you're watching". They've experienced turnover and injuries over the years, and there have been spells where their line has been WORSE than this one is.
I haven’t seen Rodgers play behind an OL as bad as the ‘16 to present Giants OL his entire career. He hasn’t been behind Dallas or Philly lines but generally he’s played behind OL that pass block reasonably well. There’s nothing comparable about any of his lines and the Giants OL.
Then I guessed you missed a bunch of primetime games that the Packers have played in over the past few years.
That's also why the guy has gotten knocked around quite a few times, because he's had to go on the run and taken a beating.
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Rodgers has had bad OLs during his tenure in GB - it's just that he's a lot more mobile than Eli is.
Part of the problem here is Eli's immobility. I don't know why that's so hard to accept for some; is there another QB in the NFL that's as immobile as Eli?
He’s always been that way. It’s not like he just suddenly became immobile 2 years ago. People here act shocked that Eli doesn’t make plays with his legs when he’s never been that guy. Then they want to scapegoat him instead of the FO that hasn’t been able to put together a decent line in 8 years.
He hasn't always been that way - he's a 14 year veteran, are you suggesting he hasn't slowed down not one bit?
Eli used to be better at avoiding pressure and moving up in the pocket. He never had perfectly clean pockets to work with, although the dogshit OLs of the past few years have been much worse. The combination of faster speed rushers, a decline in OL play around the league, and Eli slowing down has exacerbated that problem in the worst way.
It may be harsh. But its fair.
Come on...
I'm guessing you're a casual fan. right?
So...just maybe not the guy to make this statement. Right?
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I haven’t seen Rodgers play behind an OL as bad as the ‘16 to present Giants OL his entire career. He hasn’t been behind Dallas or Philly lines but generally he’s played behind OL that pass block reasonably well. There’s nothing comparable about any of his lines and the Giants OL.
Then I guessed you missed a bunch of primetime games that the Packers have played in over the past few years.
The only QB in the league that’s played behind a line comparable to the Giants the last few years is Russell Wilson and they haven’t won much either.
A mobile QB won’t solve the problem. Games are won in the trenches and you have to have a group that’s somewhat decent.
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Everything we’ve seen to this point has proven us to be right (even though Barkley has been great).
We'd still be 0-2 with the same OL.
If you think anything has proven anyone right or wrong right now that's about as short-sighted and moronic as you can be.
I’d rather be 0-2 and have holes all over the damn roster with a 22 year old QB waiting in the wings.
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In comment 14079793 jcn56 said:
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Rodgers has had bad OLs during his tenure in GB - it's just that he's a lot more mobile than Eli is.
Part of the problem here is Eli's immobility. I don't know why that's so hard to accept for some; is there another QB in the NFL that's as immobile as Eli?
He’s always been that way. It’s not like he just suddenly became immobile 2 years ago. People here act shocked that Eli doesn’t make plays with his legs when he’s never been that guy. Then they want to scapegoat him instead of the FO that hasn’t been able to put together a decent line in 8 years.
He hasn't always been that way - he's a 14 year veteran, are you suggesting he hasn't slowed down not one bit?
Eli used to be better at avoiding pressure and moving up in the pocket. He never had perfectly clean pockets to work with, although the dogshit OLs of the past few years have been much worse. The combination of faster speed rushers, a decline in OL play around the league, and Eli slowing down has exacerbated that problem in the worst way.
In the past pressure wasn’t coming from 2-3 guys getting beat. It was usually just Diehl beat off the edge and he’d just step up. Look at where the pressure came from tonight — all over the place. When Flowers has the best game you know your OL didn’t have a good night.
He's not that player anymore. Not sure why that's so hard to accept, the guy is 7 years older, people age.
He's not that player anymore. Not sure why that's so hard to accept, the guy is 7 years older, people age.
I’d trade this OL for the ‘11 OL in a heartbeat.
What point are you trying to make here? I have a feeling it's the wrong one.
It’s just the worst of combinations.
So yes, the oline needs to block better but to say nobody would be able to produce behind this oline is a naive statement without acknowledging how a mobile QB affects the defenses ability to bring pressure.
So a Marcus Mariota or Tyrod Taylor, right?
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And not a predictable straight free will rush with statue goober
So a Marcus Mariota or Tyrod Taylor, right?
Doesnt have to be the Most one demensional mobile qb like seen ala vick etc..one who can improvise, move to where the defense no longer can pin their ears back and know the qb is going to be in the pocket..ala eli...
Some of the qb in this past draft couldve filled the roll and at first still produce the same, if not, better than you know who.
Barkley, and rest would benefit as well trickle down effect
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In comment 14080045 micky said:
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And not a predictable straight free will rush with statue goober
So a Marcus Mariota or Tyrod Taylor, right?
Doesnt have to be the Most one demensional mobile qb like seen ala vick etc..one who can improvise, move to where the defense no longer can pin their ears back and know the qb is going to be in the pocket..ala eli...
Some of the qb in this past draft couldve filled the roll and at first still produce the same, if not, better than you know who.
Barkley, and rest would benefit as well trickle down effect
So like a Dak, Tanneheill, Case Keenum type?
He also has an excellent OL and the best skill players in the NFL. If he were here, my suspicison is he would struggle mightily to start.
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A Mahommes, whom ALSO, has an arm and diverse, run, pass, etc
He also has an excellent OL and the best skill players in the NFL. If he were here, my suspicison is he would struggle mightily to start.
I bet not as much as seeing with a statue now
Actually yes it is. Kelce is an excellent blocking TE and there is a reason why their RB led the league in rushing last year.
Oh really? Didnt realize theres a prequisite to "being a fan"...i gueuss thats your idea..which is cool
Yeah ummm not what you stated ..."not as being a fan"
Eli is in self preservation mode the moment he sees any rush coming. Everyone hated that reverse camera angle last night but what it did was show exactly what Eli could see. We saw multiple times that there was an option for Eli to deliver the ball to an open target less than 10 yards ahead of him.
I do not necessarily blame Eli for this at all. It is what it is though and it will not change this year. I don't think this team is as bad as what we saw last night but we are not a good team either.
The good news for all of the guys who wanted a QB with our first pick is that we will have a shot at one this spring.
I agree with you that mobility is not the FIRST attribute. However, the league has evolved once again and the defensive line is much more athletic and dominant than those who play offensive line today. In fact, in other threads over the past two months I indicated that I would like to test (pre-season) putting an athletic DL at tackle to see what the matchup would look like when two guys with similar athletic ability go up against one another.
Anyway, it is due to this evolution that I believe mobility needs to be a skill that the QB has in his tool box to be successful in today's game. No.. not the first attribute but we can see that it has become important.
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is to avoid unblocked defenders, you may have to rethink your priotiries as a fan.
I agree with you that mobility is not the FIRST attribute. However, the league has evolved once again and the defensive line is much more athletic and dominant than those who play offensive line today. In fact, in other threads over the past two months I indicated that I would like to test (pre-season) putting an athletic DL at tackle to see what the matchup would look like when two guys with similar athletic ability go up against one another.
Anyway, it is due to this evolution that I believe mobility needs to be a skill that the QB has in his tool box to be successful in today's game. No.. not the first attribute but we can see that it has become important.
I wont disagree with any of that. But when it HAS to be the first attribute in order to play behind this OLine..... then the problems are much, much, much deeper than the QB position.
The desperation of what is going on here is shocking.
And it’s only week 2 which makes this fukin scary...
The desperation of what is going on here is shocking.
And it’s only week 2 which makes this fukin scary...
You know what's fucking hilarious about this? is I am willing to bet you were screaming at the TV to go for it when they punted on the first 4th and 1.
Yoiu have literally become a joke
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And not a predictable straight free will rush with statue goober
So a Marcus Mariota or Tyrod Taylor, right?
Tyrod Taylor had his team in the playoffs last year. Giants won 3 games.
I'm not saying I want Tyrod Taylor as our next QB. I'm not saying I want a run-first QB or that rush avoidance is the most important factor in a QB, but it is PART of the package a QB must have in the current NFL to succeed, with very rare exceptions.