Eli Manning is taking way too much...

The Giants held TB to 14 & 17 points because of pressures. In 2011 they had the greatest offense the league has ever seen. Yet pressure made them average. No one was saying, wow TB really shit the bed. No, they were giving the G men D line all the credit making TB average. And we’re talking about maybe the greatest QB to ever play. If not the greatest, then top three at the very least. Again, never seen a QB getting bum rushed pretty much ever single play and it’s his fault.

...go back to last night's game and compare the time Dak had in the pocket versus Eli.

The contrast is absolutely shocking.

In comment 14080106 dep026 said:

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In comment 14080096 micky said: Quote: Nothing is EVER Eli's fault.... No its ALWAYS Eli's fault.

If you say so

In comment 14080081 M.S. said:

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...is finding soft spots within a dynamically changing pocket while keeping his eyes downfield. Last night, there were no soft spots. Just five offensive linemen playing soft; playing dumb; and playing like complete horseshit.

Could not agree more. Eli is not a runner, but he can move around the pocket. Problem is - there is no pocket.

In comment 14080148 M.S. said:

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...go back to last night's game and compare the time Dak had in the pocket versus Eli. The contrast is absolutely shocking.

This is true, but Eli looked so very bad kast night. He only looked like a pro in garbage time.

This team will not be good for a long time. Eli' s legacy and body will get pounded, I can't believe he might have a losing career record after this season.

up.

The line is terrible, but Eli makes it worse. He can't evade pressure in the way other QBs can. He used to be able to slip and slide in the pocket, but not anymore. The only thing he can do is have the ball come out quickly, and often that leads to poor throws. He doesn't have the athleticism to throw on the move. His deep ball also never connects anymore.

Eli is not a good QB anymore and has been in decline since 2015.

New OL, New Coaches, and an entirely new offense. Yet the same results. One constant, you figure it out.

First TC took the hit for Reese' failures, then it was McAdoo, then Reese was canned. This is Eli's 3rd offensive minded head coach since the SB and the offense gets worse and worse. They should have made a clean sweep by firing Reese when they fired TC but it has been one scapegoat after another blaming someone else but never the QB. You build sustained success with a GM, and HC, and a QB. When they finally made a clean sweep of FO and HC last year, they should have done it completely and started over and that includes the QB who hasn't won in forever. That's what you do when you win 3 games after years of shitty play.

In comment 14080199 Rflairr said:

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New OL, New Coaches, and an entirely new offense. Yet the same results. One constant, you figure it out.

The new OL was as shitty as the last one. Eli was getting to the last step in his drop and two Cowboys were on him. You have to be mobile to play like that and Eli is not.

sure why this is always made into a black/white argument.

Eli Manning's weakness is his mobility, so behind a porous OL, he's looking poor. He's being second-guessed for "missing" open players because he's basically been reduced to throwing to his first read, and because he's getting constant pressure, if somebody does break free, he can't see it because he's already bailing from the pocket or trying to dump things off.

There has to be blame given to Eli there. But the expectations that if he misses a WR that was the 3rd option in a play is horseshit, because by the time he's onto that progression, he's got a guy or two bearing down on him.

What's really tough is that this OL just has to be average for us to make plays. And they aren't. Every single lineman missed assignments last night. Collinsworth pointed out time and again how it wasn't a complex scheme - just basic stunts and we saw replays where Hernandez, Omameah and Flowers all missed poorly on different plays. Halapio looked decent, then left with an air cast on his leg. Solder looked serviceable out there, but he can't do everything by himself, and frankly, he's been just average.

The dilemma we face from a roster construction standpoint is that we've had several years of missing on the OL, so we are forced to overpay for a T and a G in the offseason.

It really boils down to getting a line. If you can, Barkley will be a game-changer. That's why the QB debate is frustrating to see it being rehashed every week.

So many people are calling Barkley a "win now" move. But any move is worthless if DG can't rebuild the OL. That will be his priority in the offseason I believe. I just hope some miracle gets these guys to gel, because the NFC East is a poor division right now. Very poor.

We have a line that can't block and a QB that is completely impotent in the face of a pass rush. You don't go as long as we have and look as completely helpless as we have on offense without it being a compound problem.

Eli will be slinging it all around and making plays.

Cool... now I feel better.

Let’s put that in place next year...

Its hard, but you have to access Eli as if you weren't a Giants fan. If all of us were Chiefs fans, it would be easier for us to admit that, at his peak, Eli was just a "good" QB. It would also be easier to admit that he is holding the team back.

Its just not that we struggle to win games! We struggle to get first downs. We struggle to get third and short.

Seems like we are the only team in the league who starts with 1st and 10...and then its 2nd and 12, 3rd and 19...punt. I just don't get it

Also, I don't understand why, on 3rd and 6, we throw the ball 2 yards and hope for the best. Doesn't matter the distance, we always throw it short and pray

But back to Eli, he's just done. Doesn't have "it" anymore

I was all for the Barkley pick, like most. Looking back, QB wouldve been the best, long term solution. Cause we are going to be trash for the next 5 years and crying the same song....all this talent, how are we 5-11

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So all we need is an average line now and Jimmy Googs : 8:22 am : link : reply Eli will be slinging it all around and making plays. Cool... now I feel better. Let’s put that in place next year...

Actually, it seems you feel pretty fucking wonderful right now. You get to create threads saying Eli is done and come off as pretty fucking happy that it has played out that way.

If we can just add in a slam on Stewart and a "Hand of God" comment, you might ejaculate into your wheaties.

the rude will never go away though...

about gun control. Nobody wins and just as f*cking annoying.

Eli Manning might not be prime-Eli any longer but I’m of firm belief that he would be just fine if we didn’t have a Swiss cheese OL.

There are some people who have so much disdain for Eli that they conveniently omit that notion. The good old “no more excuses for Eli” crowd. Frankly, it’s just ignorance. And you can’t fight stupid.

In comment 14080269 PhiPsi125 said:

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about gun control. Nobody wins and just as f*cking annoying. Eli Manning might not be prime-Eli any longer but I’m of firm belief that he would be just fine if we didn’t have a Swiss cheese OL. There are some people who have so much disdain for Eli that they conveniently omit that notion. The good old “no more excuses for Eli” crowd. Frankly, it’s just ignorance. And you can’t fight stupid.

but, how many teams in the league have an A+ OLine? Not alot! And the teams with subpar Olines are still putting up 20+ points every week.

what gives

In comment 14080279 riceneggs said:

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In comment 14080269 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: about gun control. Nobody wins and just as f*cking annoying. Eli Manning might not be prime-Eli any longer but I’m of firm belief that he would be just fine if we didn’t have a Swiss cheese OL. There are some people who have so much disdain for Eli that they conveniently omit that notion. The good old “no more excuses for Eli” crowd. Frankly, it’s just ignorance. And you can’t fight stupid. but, how many teams in the league have an A+ OLine? Not alot! And the teams with subpar Olines are still putting up 20+ points every week. what gives

Why go to extremes? We have a D- at best offensive line. Why cant wehope for a C or B-. No one said we needed an A+ offensive line. But we cant run the ball either. Is that on Eli as well?

In comment 14080279 riceneggs said:

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In comment 14080269 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: about gun control. Nobody wins and just as f*cking annoying. Eli Manning might not be prime-Eli any longer but I’m of firm belief that he would be just fine if we didn’t have a Swiss cheese OL. There are some people who have so much disdain for Eli that they conveniently omit that notion. The good old “no more excuses for Eli” crowd. Frankly, it’s just ignorance. And you can’t fight stupid. but, how many teams in the league have an A+ OLine? Not alot! And the teams with subpar Olines are still putting up 20+ points every week. what gives

I’d give anything for a “subpar” OL. What the giants have is way worse. I watch a lot of games on Sunday. There is no comparison to what the Giants strut out there. And well documented on the broadcast last night.

I don’t think that ANYONE was expecting prime Eli this year. He’s 37 years old. We get it. But he’s more than capable to succeed. I’m mean, it’s possible I could be wrong (just like people on the other side of the argument) but how do we find out? The OL is that bad.

that Elliot and Dak had to run between was astounding. And that’s without their best Offensive linesman. I was quite envious.

Behind this line. When every WR is covered, and EVERY DL is in the QB’s face when the ball is hiked, what’s he gonna do? Is BARKLEY immobile? Because he sure got stuffed for a loss SEVERAL times! I admit that a more mobile QB may have made a couple of plays with his feet but we need more than a couple of plays. Everyone here is so shell-shocked that they are ready to throw in the towel after a couple of losses. Week one we looked pretty good. This week the Cowboys were ready for us and took full advantage of the OL (and DL) issues. I still believe in this team and all they need to do is work together as a unit. But BBI will continue to blame E and act like the sky is falling. I’m gonna give it a couple more games before I feel defeated. The Jags just dropped the Pats with ease yesterday. EASE. Nobody is giving up on them. Couple bad breaks. We’ll be back.

with Eli. But you're kidding yourself if you watched last night's game and think that he wasn't one of the main reasons they lost. He can barely move back there. I watched a majority of QBs on Sunday roll out, evade pressure, step up into the pocket.

Eli isn't doing that anymore. He's just not that good right now.

to be fair, QB's can step up into the pocket when the edges start to collapse. It is hard to do anything when the pressure comes straight up the middle. That's what was happening with the stunts, and why the stunts proved so disruptive.

Eli couldn't step up, and he actually did a decent job moving laterally to buy time - but those plays up the middle just blow everything up.

much you can do when the opponents defense is abusing your protection all night. No, Eli is not the most mobile QB. But the amount of hyperbole in this place is at epic levels.

I watched a lot of games on Sunday. And you are kidding yourself if you say that other teams have OLs just as bad. It’s just not true.

As are Eli and Odell. The Oline looks completely confused out there

"The dilemma we face from a roster construction standpoint is that we've had several years of missing on the OL, so we are forced to overpay for a T and a G in the offseason. "

That's the dilemma we faced. The one we face now is that the first two games make it look like we missed again. Time will tell, and it's early, but my biggest sinking fear is that we may still be in the same boat after this year. We couldn't fix the entire line in one off season, but did we fix any of it?

Regarding Eli, he's good enough to be part of a winning team, but he's not going to carry the team. personally, I think he was only able to elevate the team above the sum of the parts on a limited basis, and now that he's older, the 'it' factor has abandoned him.

I believe it was zero sacks for him last night. How many was it for Eli? An onslaught.

Because he is anticipating the rush, he's going to his checkdowns too early and too often. When you have Odwell and/or Engram in single coverage, you have to take shots downfield. I don't think Eli has lost anything physically, but the years of bad OL play have taken its toll, Eli is hearing footsteps.

The next NYG QB isn't on the roster, and the Giants have to make it a priority to find one. Unfortunately, they will likely be drafting high enough next year to get one.

In comment 14080373 fkap said:

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Regarding Eli, he's good enough to be part of a winning team, but he's not going to carry the team. personally, I think he was only able to elevate the team above the sum of the parts on a limited basis, and now that he's older, the 'it' factor has abandoned him.

This. 1000%

I thought most of the mistakes last night were mental, and due to poor communication. That shouldn't be all that surprising, as these guys have never played together before, but they better get it figured out soon.

In comment 14080373 fkap said:

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"The dilemma we face from a roster construction standpoint is that we've had several years of missing on the OL, so we are forced to overpay for a T and a G in the offseason. " That's the dilemma we faced. The one we face now is that the first two games make it look like we missed again. Time will tell, and it's early, but my biggest sinking fear is that we may still be in the same boat after this year. We couldn't fix the entire line in one off season, but did we fix any of it? Regarding Eli, he's good enough to be part of a winning team, but he's not going to carry the team. personally, I think he was only able to elevate the team above the sum of the parts on a limited basis, and now that he's older, the 'it' factor has abandoned him.

+1

next week.

Just feels like a breakout game from the offense is coming soon...

missing on Norwell who looks like an effing beast for the Jags. I like Solder but we needed a dominant player up front and couldve used the Hernandez pick elsewhere, or had both.

In comment 14080412 Jimmy Googs said:

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next week. Just feels like a breakout game from the offense is coming soon...

LOL

if you want to say Eli stinks or has lost it, then you pretty much are obligated to say that Barkley sucks or never had it. They were exactly the same last night.

we are never blocking on the plus side of the line of scrimmage. We are getting pushed into our backfield three and four yards with regularity. In run blocking the line is supposed to be the aggressor. It is a nightmare. Saquan is plenty elusive, but there is nothing there.

So would a more elusive QB be effective? Marginally. Is Eli a good match for a crappy line? Off course not. But given any time he can be effective. The bile about him being scared or soft or holding the Giants back is really sad. If I were him, I would retire today before he gets hurt. He (despite his looks) is a tough SOB that got battered last night. He (and the Giants) deserve better.

last night. He’s the goods for certain.

In comment 14080460 Jimmy Googs said:

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last night. He’s the goods for certain.

I think the point is averaging 2.5 YPC is an indictment of the OL rather than Barkley.

is part of the problem because he's completely immobile. I agree with B in ALB that the increased speed of DL today mean that you need a mobile QB. But the OL is a bigger problem. They can't pick up simple blitzes and stunts, are constantly beaten by pressure, and get no push in the run game. They never control the LOS.

We have to hope that is a chemistry and cohesion problem that will lessen as they continue to play together. Hernandez is also a rookie. But the end result right now is that teams are getting pressure and controlling the LOS with just four or five DL, meaning they can drop six or seven into coverage. That produces checkdowns and dump offs which lengthen the field.

This team is going now where and I want to see someone else get crushed. Not Tanney, Lauletta. These rocket scientists picked him, lets see what he can do behind this shit of an OL. With 4 minutes left last night I was thinking, this is where we see if Eli's 'got the ole magic' come from behind in the last minute stuff. But there was no urgency, or at least not enough. He takes a delay of game penalty almost every game now. It seems like not only does he take forever in the huddle but then the OL needs to make their calls at the line. IF those guys knew what the fuck they were doing maybe Eli wouldn't have happy feet and look to check down after two seconds. Again this isn't anything against Eli, I just want to see something different. Try something else. cause this shit aint working.....

He was supposed to gain yardage running the ball on first and second down and make it easier for Eli to throw off of play action. Of course it’s harder for him without better blocking, but the best player in the draft is supposed to have an immediate impact.

The old saw goes to get your blockers before you get your running back, but Giant management ignored this. Barkley, the best running back
prospect since Adrian Peterson, was supposed to pick up yardage on his own.

And maybe there’s a reason that you play your first team in preseason, especially when you have a lot of new players. Great, no injuries in preseason because no one played, but then when the games count your offense is running around like a headless chicken.

don't think Barkley has made an immediate impact, I wonder what the fuck you're watching.

I think in 2 games, the first man to touch him has only brought him down 3 times.

There were several plays last night where he made 3-4 guys miss and still has to fend off another wave just to get a 5 yard gain.

yet Bobby Hart did a good job on Suggs Thursday and Brent Jones played well yesterday for the Vikings. Not not being able to pick up simple stunts in mind boggling.

Halipio just seems to lack awareness most of the time - looking to the left with no one in sight while a blitzer runs right past him on the left. On the first and goal from the 3 - toss sweep to Barkley, he snaps the ball and his man blew right past him.

I'm hopeful that the veteran Greco can stablize this group. How in the Hell the coaches thought Halipio was better than Jones is a real mystery.

right

That’s why he was drafted, to gain yardage not to dance around defenders and lose two yards.

Barkley was overhyped and management bit on it. They thought that they could immediately get a running game even with little or no improvement in run blocking.

A very costly mistake. By the time they fix the O-Line, Barkley will have taken a pounding for three or four seasons.

The problem is we don't have a good OL. That's an assessment that should have been made in the offseason, not now. Had that assessment been made in the offseason, then the educated decision could have been made to move on from Eli and start over at QB.

As things stand now, by the time we put a decent OL together (if we ever do) Eli will be done.

No plan.

Mara is certainly at the front of my line.

But I think Shurmur needs to be thrown into the mix. Frankly, and granted it's only two games, I have a hard time differentiating him from McAdoo. At least McAdoo had the excuse of missing many key components.

Due to trying to take chances throwing the ball downfield than watch him dink and dunk to nowhere.

In comment 14081005 guitarguybs12 said:

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Due to trying to take chances throwing the ball downfield than watch him dink and dunk to nowhere.

Agree. Just not to the Dline though...