...shit for last night.
I'm no Eli apologist on this site, never have been. But this isn't primarily about a lack of QB mobility. This is about a franchise's 7-year failure to create an offensive line worthy of the name.
Last night, Barkley was being drilled as soon as he touched the ball. His rushing stats sucked, but we would never say HE sucked! And that's because he is plagued by the same thing that's plaguing Eli:
The worst offensive line in the NFL.
The playoffs are for others; not this team. My only hope this season is that Eli does not go down with a succession of concussions, or something worse.
Saquon Barkley; OBJ... great, great football players. But what is their value when your team is playing without an offensive line?
And that brings me to John Mara: The buck stops with him and since the last Super Bowl his performance has been abysmal. He has made watching the Giants unbearable.
But the main blame is the line. Marinelli just blitzed every down and got away with it,
...is finding soft spots within a dynamically changing pocket while keeping his eyes downfield.
Last night, there were no soft spots.
Just five offensive linemen playing soft; playing dumb; and playing like complete horseshit.
But the main blame is the line. Marinelli just blitzed every down and got away with it,
But the main blame is the line. Marinelli just blitzed every down and got away with it,
He also definitely missed Barkley in the end zone wide open. Eli is a besieged QB who is in survival mode. So much so that -- when the random play occurs when he DOES have some time -- he misfires.
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Eli totally under the bus because the line sucks, but I saw at least three times he took for ever to get the ball to Barkley in the flat and by that time a LB and a corner were on Barkley. Just read a couple articles that said the same thing.
But the main blame is the line. Marinelli just blitzed every down and got away with it,
Offensive line looked like they didnt know their blocking assignments. Eli couldnt read the blitz pre snap either. Offensive line isnt great but Eli has been a bottom of the league QB for 3 seasons also everybody outside of being a Giants fan sees Eli as trash.
As soon as it ended last night a friend texted me as soon as it was evident Eli was coming back for 2018, the rest of the NFC laughed...hes a Bear fan. So yeah, Eli is definitely not looked upon highly by many.
We say this every game and all offseason when discussing the QB position. Hes not good enough anymore. Hes 37. Hes taking a beating, I agree. But hes also not seeing open guys and when he does, hes misfiring. Most times hes dumping it off quickly just to protect himself.
And we also would have a breakout offensive day
And we would also score over 30 points
It must have been toilet paper...
No its ALWAYS Eli's fault.
I keep reading the whole league has a bad o line l, well why can't our guys smell a fucking sack or TFL.
This team is garbage and this season is basically over. Eli will get beat to pulp and never give up trying to lead this joke of a team. What a way for a legend to go out. Do the Giants even Crack four wins?
I think they pick top four again and Eli is cut after the week 17 loss.
People kept pointing out how the stunts were being run and run again. Thats not just OL and coaching issues its also expecting a 20m veteran QB to know what the hell to do in a game.
Eli was just as responsible for the loss last night as everyone else. Enough with the apologists and blame going everywhere else. He also rushed a few passes and continues to stink making screen throws. If his confidence is broken and hes mentally drained due to bad OL play then he needs to retire after this year.
Eli is finished as a higher end quality QB and the league knows it. The Giants are living in denial and its cost us a season here, again. You dont build a team and limit an offense around an aging QB with poor mobility, declining downfield accuracy when your Oline needs to be rebuilt.
I think Gettleman convinced himself he could pull a Denver Broncos/Elway like run for two years, or maybe John Mara did.
People kept pointing out how the stunts were being run and run again. Thats not just OL and coaching issues its also expecting a 20m veteran QB to know what the hell to do in a game.
Eli was just as responsible for the loss last night as everyone else. Enough with the apologists and blame going everywhere else. He also rushed a few passes and continues to stink making screen throws. If his confidence is broken and hes mentally drained due to bad OL play then he needs to retire after this year.
Eli is finished as a higher end quality QB and the league knows it. The Giants are living in denial and its cost us a season here, again. You dont build a team and limit an offense around an aging QB with poor mobility, declining downfield accuracy when your Oline needs to be rebuilt.
I think Gettleman convinced himself he could pull a Denver Broncos/Elway like run for two years, or maybe John Mara did.
👍
I agree with you, but eventually it is what it is and Eli as QB of this team has been losing so much and been getting his ass kicked so much, eventually we have to admit the dream is over.
Eli will likely have a losing career record after this joke of a season is done. Just wish this front office had the stones to come to this conclusion before the draft. I hope there are some QBS coming out this year. Giants should have a top four pick. P
I, for one, would never make that claim, and over the years I have excoriated Eli's play on several occasions. But nothing will work with this offensive line -- QB; RB; WR. They are all failing with the five guys we have upfront.
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Getting completely destroyed behind the worst O line in the league. They simply cannot block at all. No time to throw to Odell, no running game etc. A RB that ever single evaluator will tell you is special yet gets 28 yards on 11 carries. He is young and fast, yet still cant operate behind this line. It is truly amazing.
I agree with you, but eventually it is what it is and Eli as QB of this team has been losing so much and been getting his ass kicked so much, eventually we have to admit the dream is over.
Eli will likely have a losing career record after this joke of a season is done. Just wish this front office had the stones to come to this conclusion before the draft. I hope there are some QBS coming out this year. Giants should have a top four pick. P
3-13 will push his regular season winning % below .500.
4-12 is exactly .500 (115-115)
...go back to last night's game and compare the time Dak had in the pocket versus Eli.
The contrast is absolutely shocking.
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Nothing is EVER Eli's fault....
No its ALWAYS Eli's fault.
If you say so
...is finding soft spots within a dynamically changing pocket while keeping his eyes downfield.
Last night, there were no soft spots.
Just five offensive linemen playing soft; playing dumb; and playing like complete horseshit.
Could not agree more. Eli is not a runner, but he can move around the pocket. Problem is - there is no pocket.
...go back to last night's game and compare the time Dak had in the pocket versus Eli.
The contrast is absolutely shocking.
This is true, but Eli looked so very bad kast night. He only looked like a pro in garbage time.
This team will not be good for a long time. Eli' s legacy and body will get pounded, I can't believe he might have a losing career record after this season.
Eli is not a good QB anymore and has been in decline since 2015.
The new OL was as shitty as the last one. Eli was getting to the last step in his drop and two Cowboys were on him. You have to be mobile to play like that and Eli is not.
Eli Manning's weakness is his mobility, so behind a porous OL, he's looking poor. He's being second-guessed for "missing" open players because he's basically been reduced to throwing to his first read, and because he's getting constant pressure, if somebody does break free, he can't see it because he's already bailing from the pocket or trying to dump things off.
There has to be blame given to Eli there. But the expectations that if he misses a WR that was the 3rd option in a play is horseshit, because by the time he's onto that progression, he's got a guy or two bearing down on him.
What's really tough is that this OL just has to be average for us to make plays. And they aren't. Every single lineman missed assignments last night. Collinsworth pointed out time and again how it wasn't a complex scheme - just basic stunts and we saw replays where Hernandez, Omameah and Flowers all missed poorly on different plays. Halapio looked decent, then left with an air cast on his leg. Solder looked serviceable out there, but he can't do everything by himself, and frankly, he's been just average.
The dilemma we face from a roster construction standpoint is that we've had several years of missing on the OL, so we are forced to overpay for a T and a G in the offseason.
It really boils down to getting a line. If you can, Barkley will be a game-changer. That's why the QB debate is frustrating to see it being rehashed every week.
So many people are calling Barkley a "win now" move. But any move is worthless if DG can't rebuild the OL. That will be his priority in the offseason I believe. I just hope some miracle gets these guys to gel, because the NFC East is a poor division right now. Very poor.
Cool... now I feel better.
Lets put that in place next year...
Its just not that we struggle to win games! We struggle to get first downs. We struggle to get third and short.
Seems like we are the only team in the league who starts with 1st and 10...and then its 2nd and 12, 3rd and 19...punt. I just don't get it
Also, I don't understand why, on 3rd and 6, we throw the ball 2 yards and hope for the best. Doesn't matter the distance, we always throw it short and pray
But back to Eli, he's just done. Doesn't have "it" anymore
I was all for the Barkley pick, like most. Looking back, QB wouldve been the best, long term solution. Cause we are going to be trash for the next 5 years and crying the same song....all this talent, how are we 5-11
Jimmy Googs : 8:22 am : link : reply
Eli will be slinging it all around and making plays.
Cool... now I feel better.
Lets put that in place next year...
Actually, it seems you feel pretty fucking wonderful right now. You get to create threads saying Eli is done and come off as pretty fucking happy that it has played out that way.
If we can just add in a slam on Stewart and a "Hand of God" comment, you might ejaculate into your wheaties.
Eli Manning might not be prime-Eli any longer but Im of firm belief that he would be just fine if we didnt have a Swiss cheese OL.
There are some people who have so much disdain for Eli that they conveniently omit that notion. The good old no more excuses for Eli crowd. Frankly, its just ignorance. And you cant fight stupid.
Eli Manning might not be prime-Eli any longer but Im of firm belief that he would be just fine if we didnt have a Swiss cheese OL.
There are some people who have so much disdain for Eli that they conveniently omit that notion. The good old no more excuses for Eli crowd. Frankly, its just ignorance. And you cant fight stupid.
but, how many teams in the league have an A+ OLine? Not alot! And the teams with subpar Olines are still putting up 20+ points every week.
what gives
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about gun control. Nobody wins and just as f*cking annoying.
Eli Manning might not be prime-Eli any longer but Im of firm belief that he would be just fine if we didnt have a Swiss cheese OL.
There are some people who have so much disdain for Eli that they conveniently omit that notion. The good old no more excuses for Eli crowd. Frankly, its just ignorance. And you cant fight stupid.
but, how many teams in the league have an A+ OLine? Not alot! And the teams with subpar Olines are still putting up 20+ points every week.
what gives
Why go to extremes? We have a D- at best offensive line. Why cant wehope for a C or B-. No one said we needed an A+ offensive line. But we cant run the ball either. Is that on Eli as well?
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about gun control. Nobody wins and just as f*cking annoying.
Eli Manning might not be prime-Eli any longer but Im of firm belief that he would be just fine if we didnt have a Swiss cheese OL.
There are some people who have so much disdain for Eli that they conveniently omit that notion. The good old no more excuses for Eli crowd. Frankly, its just ignorance. And you cant fight stupid.
but, how many teams in the league have an A+ OLine? Not alot! And the teams with subpar Olines are still putting up 20+ points every week.
what gives
Id give anything for a subpar OL. What the giants have is way worse. I watch a lot of games on Sunday. There is no comparison to what the Giants strut out there. And well documented on the broadcast last night.
I dont think that ANYONE was expecting prime Eli this year. Hes 37 years old. We get it. But hes more than capable to succeed. Im mean, its possible I could be wrong (just like people on the other side of the argument) but how do we find out? The OL is that bad.
Eli isn't doing that anymore. He's just not that good right now.
Eli couldn't step up, and he actually did a decent job moving laterally to buy time - but those plays up the middle just blow everything up.
I watched a lot of games on Sunday. And you are kidding yourself if you say that other teams have OLs just as bad. Its just not true.
That's the dilemma we faced. The one we face now is that the first two games make it look like we missed again. Time will tell, and it's early, but my biggest sinking fear is that we may still be in the same boat after this year. We couldn't fix the entire line in one off season, but did we fix any of it?
Regarding Eli, he's good enough to be part of a winning team, but he's not going to carry the team. personally, I think he was only able to elevate the team above the sum of the parts on a limited basis, and now that he's older, the 'it' factor has abandoned him.
The next NYG QB isn't on the roster, and the Giants have to make it a priority to find one. Unfortunately, they will likely be drafting high enough next year to get one.
This. 1000%
That's the dilemma we faced. The one we face now is that the first two games make it look like we missed again. Time will tell, and it's early, but my biggest sinking fear is that we may still be in the same boat after this year. We couldn't fix the entire line in one off season, but did we fix any of it?
Regarding Eli, he's good enough to be part of a winning team, but he's not going to carry the team. personally, I think he was only able to elevate the team above the sum of the parts on a limited basis, and now that he's older, the 'it' factor has abandoned him.
+1
Just feels like a breakout game from the offense is coming soon...
Just feels like a breakout game from the offense is coming soon...
LOL
So would a more elusive QB be effective? Marginally. Is Eli a good match for a crappy line? Off course not. But given any time he can be effective. The bile about him being scared or soft or holding the Giants back is really sad. If I were him, I would retire today before he gets hurt. He (despite his looks) is a tough SOB that got battered last night. He (and the Giants) deserve better.
I think the point is averaging 2.5 YPC is an indictment of the OL rather than Barkley.
We have to hope that is a chemistry and cohesion problem that will lessen as they continue to play together. Hernandez is also a rookie. But the end result right now is that teams are getting pressure and controlling the LOS with just four or five DL, meaning they can drop six or seven into coverage. That produces checkdowns and dump offs which lengthen the field.
The old saw goes to get your blockers before you get your running back, but Giant management ignored this. Barkley, the best running back
prospect since Adrian Peterson, was supposed to pick up yardage on his own.
And maybe theres a reason that you play your first team in preseason, especially when you have a lot of new players. Great, no injuries in preseason because no one played, but then when the games count your offense is running around like a headless chicken.
I think in 2 games, the first man to touch him has only brought him down 3 times.
There were several plays last night where he made 3-4 guys miss and still has to fend off another wave just to get a 5 yard gain.
Halipio just seems to lack awareness most of the time - looking to the left with no one in sight while a blitzer runs right past him on the left. On the first and goal from the 3 - toss sweep to Barkley, he snaps the ball and his man blew right past him.
I'm hopeful that the veteran Greco can stablize this group. How in the Hell the coaches thought Halipio was better than Jones is a real mystery.
Barkley was overhyped and management bit on it. They thought that they could immediately get a running game even with little or no improvement in run blocking.
A very costly mistake. By the time they fix the O-Line, Barkley will have taken a pounding for three or four seasons.
As things stand now, by the time we put a decent OL together (if we ever do) Eli will be done.
No plan.
But I think Shurmur needs to be thrown into the mix. Frankly, and granted it's only two games, I have a hard time differentiating him from McAdoo. At least McAdoo had the excuse of missing many key components.
Agree. Just not to the Dline though...