That is if you believe Collinsworth is correct.
And it's certainly possible it's both. I just want to discuss Collinsworths commentary.
Last night regarding the Giants OL vs the Cowboys DL (where the game was lost IMO) Collinsworth must have said 10 times, "at least they're not getting beat physically" it's scheme. "Rod Marinelli is consistently winning this battle" and focused on how the different stunts and blitzes were confusing the Giants.
I get the Giants OL hasn't played together much, isn't very talented to begin with, and lost Halapio late, but this was mass confusion. so many times I saw two OL blocking the same one player leaving a pass rusher with no one blocking them. Of course Eli didn't read the blitzes right quite a few times and missed the open man, but he had zero time and in more than once occasion looked confused himself about where to look for the open man on the slot blitzes.
Shula, Hunter, Shurmur, did they just get beat by Marinelli or was it inevitable that at some point the Dallas DL was just more talented?
And I know Marinelli has a good reputation, but I don't think his defenses have ever won a playoff game of if they have it's not more than 1 or 2, so it's not like this guy is a mad scientist back there dreaming up exotic schemes like Wade Phillips or Belichick.
Not sure Aaron Rodgers could have done much differently with that confusion.
They lost that game before the ball was even snapped most of the time.
To me, that is either coaching, or incredibly bad linemen.
But, the coaches got whooped last night in terms of scheme and gameplan. Dallas was playing at different speed and seemed like their defense was in the NYG huddle.
seems like we are ALWAYS better in hurry up, spread offense. but for whatever reason, we never commit to that
dallas wasn't even diguising what they were doing. stack the line and come after the QB. seems like we shouldve gone spread to slow that down.
the lack of a #2 WR may have something to do with that. I'm with signing Dez at this point. Just to have someone opposite of Odell. And move Shepard back to the slot, where he's better.
But, the coaches got whooped last night in terms of scheme and gameplan. Dallas was playing at different speed and seemed like their defense was in the NYG huddle.
Do you honestly believe the talent in Dallas is any better?
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Some things take awhile to figure out and get corrected, OL cohesion being a common one in the game of football.
But, the coaches got whooped last night in terms of scheme and gameplan. Dallas was playing at different speed and seemed like their defense was in the NYG huddle.
Do you honestly believe the talent in Dallas is any better?
Dallas OL is better, that's a big key in terms of controlling the tempo and clock, and losing the inverse battle when our OL looks like pop warner quality.
Their OL is better - and based on their game against the Panthers and the fact that Frederick is out, their OL aren't worldbeaters any more.
Maybe it's time that we accept what the rest of the NFL seems to understand for some time now, that Eli's no longer capable of playing at a high level.
Both games, we've done a good job in making adjustments on D, and poor at doing it on O, but watching the OL play, they were allowing jailbreaks all game long.
I think we are to the point where a full assortment of max protect plays will be put into the playbook.
Their OL is better - and based on their game against the Panthers and the fact that Frederick is out, their OL aren't worldbeaters any more.
Maybe it's time that we accept what the rest of the NFL seems to understand for some time now, that Eli's no longer capable of playing at a high level.
I don't necessarily disagree, but even with the Cowboys depleted OL, and lack of quality pass catchers, did the Giants even once hit Prescott, forget sacking him, did they even touch him when he didn't run?
And when he ran the option, it was like Dak vs Pop Warner players. How many times can Kareem Martin just run to Zeke at that play giving chunks of yards to Dak (I assume Dak was Martin's responsibility, but i don't know, not sure Martin even knows).
Dallas game plan of offense far negated any talent deficiency they have, even with just the one big play that changed the game.
And Dallas game plan on D neutralized the Giants advantage in skill players.
The focal point here is the Giants O versus the Dallas D. They were completely outmatched, yet again. It's hard to separate whether it's the coaching, the talent, or some combination of both. All we know for certain is the Giants have changed a lot of parts over the past few years on both sides of that equation, with one constant, Eli. And the results we keep getting are the same.
I agree though, and said in the beginning the thread, the game was lost in the trenches on offense, Dallas DL vs Giants OL.
What happened to the short outs, the 10 yard passes?
The Giants game plan was to send there receivers deep and to throw underneath to Barkley.
Barkley was not getting deep enough down field to make this work.
While the Giants were manhandled at the line there are always to counter the rush.
This did not happen.
On defense with all of the movements and disguises to the blitzes no one was breaking free. Too often there were two players in the same gap where they neutralized each other.
This is a rookie staff. I think that they will improve as time proceeds. I just fear that it will be too little too late.
The coaching staff looked unprepared.
There is a reason no matter who the coaches and players are, what “schemes” are run, the team looks exactly the same. Im convinced theres a NY Giants playbook and SOP and anyone who comes here simply falls in line.
What we saw last night was classic McAdoo Giants which makes zero sense.
Do you honestly believe the talent in Dallas is any better?
The Dallas D is legitimately good, our offense is legitimately bad. That side of the ball was an absolute mismatch.
Their OL is better - and based on their game against the Panthers and the fact that Frederick is out, their OL aren't worldbeaters any more.
Maybe it's time that we accept what the rest of the NFL seems to understand for some time now, that Eli's no longer capable of playing at a high level.
Currently do you really view Eli as a better QB than Dak? And I really think we overrate some of the skill players outside of Beckham and Barkley.
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Do you honestly believe the talent in Dallas is any better?
The Dallas D is legitimately good, our offense is legitimately bad. That side of the ball was an absolute mismatch.
Maybe the Dallas DL - but OBJ, Shep and Engram should have been good enough to create mismatches in the secondary. And as good as their DL is, we drafted a RB that everyone was comparing to some of the all time greats.
So results aside - the disparity between talent is not that great. Dallas' D is highly overrated, something we're going to see this season as other teams don't struggle to limit their offensive output and their D is on the field more, exposing it for what it really is.
Dak rarely had to even move out of the pocket due to pressure.
What do we think the results would have been had Dak been pressured like eli was (sack totals nonwithstanding) and if Eli had time to sit in the pocket as long as Dak did?
I'm pretty certain that is a Giants W. I can't recall many plays when Eli had time to even look past his second read and was forced to dump passes off. And as the game progressed, he's dumping off everything because he can't trust the OL, even when they gave him any protection.
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Currently do you really view Eli as a better QB than Dak? And I really think we overrate some of the skill players outside of Beckham and Barkley.
Dak rarely had to even move out of the pocket due to pressure.
What do we think the results would have been had Dak been pressured like eli was (sack totals nonwithstanding) and if Eli had time to sit in the pocket as long as Dak did?
I'm pretty certain that is a Giants W. I can't recall many plays when Eli had time to even look past his second read and was forced to dump passes off. And as the game progressed, he's dumping off everything because he can't trust the OL, even when they gave him any protection.
I’m not some Eli basher and the Oline is atrocious. But Dak made plays last night. Did Eli make anything? Even when he has time he’s not making the throws.
You can't tell me that Solder, Hernandez ( a highly regarded top pick), and that Omameh guy who did ok at Carolina, are that bad. Flowers is and I get it. Plus put in Pulley from SD at center, to me that is the first move
Yeah, he should have been blocking better..smh!
As far as coaching goes, I wonder how is it that Nate Solder looks so poor? I know Omameh wasn't good last year, but he was hardly a black hole that made moving the ball near impossible. How is that Bobby Hart is nearly unplayable last year, but the Bengals don't have any problems moving the ball with him as the starting right tackle?
Take away all his carries except the 68 yard run and his average is 68 yards per carry.
why would you remove that run?
But yet, they QB sneak it twice afterwards in worse field position.
What exactly has Hal Hunter done?
It is beyond comprehension that this is the case and the same coaching problems are presenting themselves with a different coach, not even 12 months later.