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Franchise Moment: Not How I wanted to See Manning Go

christian : 9/17/2018 9:14 am
Manning getting trucked last night trying to pick up the first with his feet was shocking and saddening.

I hope that image gets plastered all over everything today. What a complete shame. Really, shame on every single person in that front office and coaching room.

On what planet did anyone who knows anything about football think it was fair, productive or a good idea to put a slowing, aging player behind a brand new and foreseeably inept line, in a brand new system, with question marks all over the field?

Last night was fucking sickening.

Gettleman had his mind made up about Manning from the moment he stepped on the podium. Not after he saw if his game plan for improving was going to unfold. Not after he finished scouting the draft. If he was going to be the starting quarterback he deserves way better than what's out there.

Who even knows what Manning has left? No one, even the staff can tell when he's getting his shit kicked in on every other snap.

If I was someone who really wanted Manning back (and I admit I wasn't), this would be killing me.
But he looked really good on film  
Jimmy Googs : 9/17/2018 9:16 am : link
in last years Philly game...
Manning will not survive the season behind this disaster  
Jints in Carolina : 9/17/2018 9:16 am : link
of an o-line
also Christian  
Jints in Carolina : 9/17/2018 9:16 am : link
I hope you are well.
christian  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/17/2018 9:17 am : link
The REAL question is was sticking with Eli a JOB REQUIREMENT for becoming the team's next GM and head coach?
RE: christian  
Thegratefulhead : 9/17/2018 9:22 am : link
In comment 14080423 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
The REAL question is was sticking with Eli a JOB REQUIREMENT for becoming the team's next GM and head coach?
I think it was. I said so. Gettleman and Shurmur told Mara what he wanted to hear and he believed them.
Eric  
hassan : 9/17/2018 9:22 am : link
I think we know the answer to that.

They fired Mcadoo. Who was no great shakes but he is getting too much flak for organizational failings and was probably right about Manning at this stage.
RE: christian  
dep026 : 9/17/2018 9:23 am : link
In comment 14080423 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
The REAL question is was sticking with Eli a JOB REQUIREMENT for becoming the team's next GM and head coach?


Maybe, but what alternatives did we have at the position?
RE: christian  
Les in TO : 9/17/2018 9:24 am : link
In comment 14080423 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
The REAL question is was sticking with Eli a JOB REQUIREMENT for becoming the team's next GM and head coach?
I wouldn't be surprised if it was. mara picked McAdoo as the successor to coughlin to maintain continuity for eli. after mara lost face for his involvement in Geno-gate, as bw noted, he went back into his safety box, conducted a fake GM search and hired someone who was going to attempt a reno instead of a much needed rebuild. his MO is building around Eli and hoping for a rebirth of 2007/2011.
RE: christian  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 9:24 am : link
In comment 14080423 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
The REAL question is was sticking with Eli a JOB REQUIREMENT for becoming the team's next GM and head coach?


Agree with Eric - it wasn't that his mind was made up before he got up to the podium, it was in the interview room.

So the question becomes was his mind made up, or did they make it up for him? Either way, it's not encouraging.

Nobody wanted to see Eli go out like this. But few in the NFL really go out well. For every Strahan or Peyton, there are a dozen Elis, guys who wrapped it up either too late or in inopportune situations.
RE: RE: christian  
Harvest Blend : 9/17/2018 9:25 am : link
In comment 14080458 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14080423 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


The REAL question is was sticking with Eli a JOB REQUIREMENT for becoming the team's next GM and head coach?



Maybe, but what alternatives did we have at the position?


Sam Darnold.
bw was banging that drum for months and took it on the chin  
Jimmy Googs : 9/17/2018 9:30 am : link
from multiple chuckleheads that roam these threads.

You know who you are...
They  
Toth029 : 9/17/2018 9:31 am : link
Liked Allen more than Darnold I thought.
To Eric's point  
arniefez : 9/17/2018 9:35 am : link
All of the major decisions of the off season were made by ownership and they hired a GM who no one else would offer a job and he went along with them and sold them to the fan base.

Anyone who thinks that comparing the post 2011 era to the 1970's is an overreaction is wrong. This is how the Giants used to be run by Wellington and this is what Sunday's and Monday's were like back then.
It’s definitely killing me, christian  
exiled : 9/17/2018 9:35 am : link
.
You Guys Don't Get It  
Bernie : 9/17/2018 9:37 am : link
They do have a plan; Kyle Lauletta!The joke is on the rest of the NFL. The Giants got both Barkley and Lauletta in the same draft! Just stick to the plan.
In all likelihood, we were going to regret the Barkley pick...  
x meadowlander : 9/17/2018 9:39 am : link
...just didn't think it would be this soon.

Don't get me wrong, LOVE Barkley. QB was simply the much more logical pick.
RE: You Guys Don't Get It  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 9:39 am : link
In comment 14080527 Bernie said:
Quote:
They do have a plan; Kyle Lauletta!The joke is on the rest of the NFL. The Giants got both Barkley and Lauletta in the same draft! Just stick to the plan.


Sadly that is probably part of the plan, and evidence that the Giants continue to believe they can outsmart the rest of the NFL.
What alternatives did we have at the position??  
bceagle05 : 9/17/2018 9:40 am : link
Come the fuck on.
He's going out like  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/17/2018 9:40 am : link
Willie Mays.
RE: What alternatives did we have at the position??  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 9:40 am : link
In comment 14080545 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Come the fuck on.


Did you miss this year's draft?
RE: christian  
Section331 : 9/17/2018 9:41 am : link
In comment 14080423 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
The REAL question is was sticking with Eli a JOB REQUIREMENT for becoming the team's next GM and head coach?


Bingo.
RE: RE: What alternatives did we have at the position??  
dep026 : 9/17/2018 9:41 am : link
In comment 14080550 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14080545 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


Come the fuck on.



Did you miss this year's draft?


As a Darnold supporter - he wasnt going to help us this year. Long term yes - this year or next year, probably not.
RE: RE: christian  
christian : 9/17/2018 9:42 am : link
In comment 14080458 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14080423 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


The REAL question is was sticking with Eli a JOB REQUIREMENT for becoming the team's next GM and head coach?



Maybe, but what alternatives did we have at the position?


The alternative was work something respectful out with Manning, his agent and a team he could actually survive on.

And then go with a Geno Smith who actually has a runners chance while the team built a line that could protect Donald next year.

There were lots of alternatives to getting a top 5 all time face of the franchise beaten like bag.
If keeping Eli as the starting QB was  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/17/2018 9:43 am : link
A requisite to get the GM/HC job, we're more f*cked than I thought.
He could have helped this year as well  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 9:43 am : link
We could easily have gone the Eli route, started Eli for a few games until he got up to speed and then transitioned over.

And even if we didn't - at least there'd be some promise for the future. Here, we're stuck in the mud with no plan.
RE: RE: RE: christian  
dep026 : 9/17/2018 9:44 am : link
In comment 14080556 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14080458 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14080423 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


The REAL question is was sticking with Eli a JOB REQUIREMENT for becoming the team's next GM and head coach?



Maybe, but what alternatives did we have at the position?



The alternative was work something respectful out with Manning, his agent and a team he could actually survive on.

And then go with a Geno Smith who actually has a runners chance while the team built a line that could protect Donald next year.

There were lots of alternatives to getting a top 5 all time face of the franchise beaten like bag.


Geno Smith? Oh god. I rather Alex Tanney haha.
RE: RE: What alternatives did we have at the position??  
bceagle05 : 9/17/2018 9:46 am : link
In comment 14080550 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Did you miss this year's draft?

Sorry, I didn't make it clear I was replying sarcastically to a post above. I was all about drafting a QB.
Darnold  
Harvest Blend : 9/17/2018 9:48 am : link
might not have helped this year W-L wise (even though he likely would have, imo) but now we're screwed for 2019 too. Not a slight on Barkley at all because it's not his fault either, but.....
I've been one of Eli's staunchest defenders,  
Section331 : 9/17/2018 9:50 am : link
but to make this out to be all on the OL is misguided. He's leaving plays on the field. Overthrew Odell twice in the end zone last week, and missed him when he was wide open downfield; missed Odell downfield when he checked down to Latimer too quickly, and had Barkley open for a TD but foolishly tried to run for a 1st on 3rd & 9 with Jaylon Smith bearing down on him.

7 years of playing behind some of the worst OL's in the NFL has taken its toll. Whether Eli is salvageable or not isn't the point. If he is, it will have to be somewhere else. This isn't a roster that will compete for a playoff spot, and the priority this offseason will be to find the next Giant QB.
...  
christian : 9/17/2018 9:51 am : link
The Giants needed to accept how far away they were and use this as a rebuilding season.

I wouldn't have cared who the starting quarterback was (just like I didn't care about Warner), if the future was on the roster.

But regardless, my point is the really unnecessary part was getting Manning paraded out there and stoned.
Barkley Is 3 Years Too Late For Eli  
Bernie : 9/17/2018 9:57 am : link
the smart move was to draft a QB this year - Darnold. Without a stellar O-Line, it really does not matter how great the skill position players may be. And lets be clear, other than Hernandez who is a rookie that will get better, the balance of the O-Line is a way over-paid middle of the road left tackle, a bust at right tackle and 2 other journeymen. Nauseating that the future is not bright but bleak.
I have not read this thread, so I may be ...  
Boy Cord : 9/17/2018 9:59 am : link
... repeating what others have said. I don’t give AF about Eli’s feelings or how he ends his career in NY. This team is awful and he is a big part of it. There is also no future with him at QB. Whatever window there was (if there even was one) has been slammed shut, locked, and shuttered.

If the Giants think Lauletta has a chance to lead this team in the future, they should start him as soon as he is ready. He can run for his life much better than Eli. At the very least, he will save 20 to 30 yards in sacks each game.
I don't think support for Eli was a job requirement...  
Dan in the Springs : 9/17/2018 10:01 am : link
I just think it indicated to ownership that the most favorable situation was possible - that the team could avoid a total rebuild at QB and could compete immediately with a fan favorite.

While not overtly required, it had to make ownership feel better than hearing that Eli was done and to blame for the offensive woes.

In other words: "I can work with Eli" sounds much better than "I can't work with Eli".
The franchise needed to hear and follow some tough love  
Jimmy Googs : 9/17/2018 10:08 am : link
thinking.

Restructurings usually do if done correctly...
The play calling has a lot to do with this  
Fish : 9/17/2018 10:12 am : link
They stopped running the ball. Run the ball, stick with it. Gain the confidence needed to try and succeed. Run to set up the pass. Why keep doing same passes over and over. Send Barkley, Stewart and Gallman into the line over and over again to soften them up. That my friends is Parcells type football.
RE: christian  
Tom in NY : 9/17/2018 10:19 am : link
In comment 14080423 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
The REAL question is was sticking with Eli a JOB REQUIREMENT for becoming the team's next GM and head coach?


On Patti and Ed's "Locked on Giants" podcast this week, they made the case that the Giants took Barkley, re-signed OBJ, and signed Solder as part 1 of a 2 part plan for the future. They believe that getting a 1st round QB in 2019 is the plan, and that they wanted to have a solid team around the rookie QB at that point in time, plus give Eli 2 years to try to win something. It's a risky plan if they don't wind up with a stud QB, but it could make sense if you're looking at this as a multiple year fix.
RE: RE: RE: What alternatives did we have at the position??  
lax counsel : 9/17/2018 10:31 am : link
In comment 14080553 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14080550 jcn56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14080545 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


Come the fuck on.



Did you miss this year's draft?



As a Darnold supporter - he wasnt going to help us this year. Long term yes - this year or next year, probably not.


And that’s ok . What the Giants would have done is open up a 10 year window to win as they developed Darnold and built around him, similar to what they did for 2004. They could have let him take some growing pains. Instead they built around a 37 year old qb and a running back.
Thought Eli was toast after that hit  
jpetuch : 9/17/2018 10:34 am : link
They make him do 2 OB sneaks on 4th and 1s but no attempt on 4th and 2 chain links? Three calls 1 scared and 2 panics. Shurmur couldnt even answer for it.
This is very interesting Christian...  
EricJ : 9/17/2018 10:37 am : link
In comment 14080604 christian said:
Quote:
On what planet did anyone who knows anything about football think it was fair, productive or a good idea to put a slowing, aging player behind a brand new and foreseeably inept line, in a brand new system, with question marks all over the field?


Amazing what a difference 10 days makes. It was about that long ago when you insisted this was a playoff team while I said I did not think so because of the question marks. You said I was a pessimist and I said no I am a realist.

So.. NOW there are question marks all over the field? Did you now know anything about football 10 days ago? Glad you finally took off the kool-aid glasses.
RE: This is very interesting Christian...  
christian : 9/17/2018 10:44 am : link
In comment 14080789 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14080604 christian said:


Quote:


On what planet did anyone who knows anything about football think it was fair, productive or a good idea to put a slowing, aging player behind a brand new and foreseeably inept line, in a brand new system, with question marks all over the field?



Amazing what a difference 10 days makes. It was about that long ago when you insisted this was a playoff team while I said I did not think so because of the question marks. You said I was a pessimist and I said no I am a realist.

So.. NOW there are question marks all over the field? Did you now know anything about football 10 days ago? Glad you finally took off the kool-aid glasses.


Say what now?
RE: RE: christian  
jcn56 : 9/17/2018 10:51 am : link
In comment 14080719 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14080423 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


The REAL question is was sticking with Eli a JOB REQUIREMENT for becoming the team's next GM and head coach?



On Patti and Ed's "Locked on Giants" podcast this week, they made the case that the Giants took Barkley, re-signed OBJ, and signed Solder as part 1 of a 2 part plan for the future. They believe that getting a 1st round QB in 2019 is the plan, and that they wanted to have a solid team around the rookie QB at that point in time, plus give Eli 2 years to try to win something. It's a risky plan if they don't wind up with a stud QB, but it could make sense if you're looking at this as a multiple year fix.


That's a brilliant fucking plan then...

Let's not draft a QB with our 2nd overall pick in a QB heavy draft. Let's take a RB instead, who won't be able to contribute due to the OL and QB woes. Instead, let's wait to take the QB in 2019, when we don't know where we'll be picking and all indications are that it'll be a weaker than usual crop of QBs.
RE: RE: This is very interesting Christian...  
EricJ : 9/17/2018 10:52 am : link
In comment 14080822 christian said:
Quote:


Say what now?


My apologies Christian, you were in that thread but it was not you... It was NYgiants16
RE: RE: RE: This is very interesting Christian...  
christian : 9/17/2018 10:53 am : link
In comment 14080859 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14080822 christian said:


Quote:




Say what now?



My apologies Christian, you were in that thread but it was not you... It was NYgiants16


All good dude - I thought maybe a was in the black out lounge and posting some nonsense about optimism!
christian:  
Big Blue '56 : 9/17/2018 11:18 am : link
Love ya buddy, but I really need more proof than 2 games with a new OL and staff, before I lament how Eli is going. You might be right. 2 games under a new program, even if it appears to be the same old, is not enough to convince me. Yet
RE: RE: RE: christian  
Jim in Forest Hills : 9/17/2018 11:29 am : link
In comment 14080858 jcn56 said:
Quote:



On Patti and Ed's "Locked on Giants" podcast this week, they made the case that the Giants took Barkley, re-signed OBJ, and signed Solder as part 1 of a 2 part plan for the future. They believe that getting a 1st round QB in 2019 is the plan, and that they wanted to have a solid team around the rookie QB at that point in time, plus give Eli 2 years to try to win something. It's a risky plan if they don't wind up with a stud QB, but it could make sense if you're looking at this as a multiple year fix.



That's a brilliant fucking plan then...

Let's not draft a QB with our 2nd overall pick in a QB heavy draft. Let's take a RB instead, who won't be able to contribute due to the OL and QB woes. Instead, let's wait to take the QB in 2019, when we don't know where we'll be picking and all indications are that it'll be a weaker than usual crop of QBs.


Its a terrible plan, because you cant plan 1st rd QBs EVER. To luck into the #2 pick without a trade and to have your pick of Darnold/Allen/Rosen should have been the plan. No one has any clue who will be available/good and where they will pick. I think this is nonsense. Giants wanted to win this year and are showing how badly they misevaluated their own talent.
Eli is going to be the fall guy  
Go Terps : 9/17/2018 11:31 am : link
Ownership and the front office destroyed the second half of his career by repeatedly trying to "make a run with Eli".
...  
christian : 9/17/2018 11:51 am : link
How do you think it will be put on Manning?

I suspect the story will be very sympathetic to Manning and not surrounding him with what he needed.
Good original post  
rocco8112 : 9/17/2018 12:14 pm : link
It is sad. When last season happened I was sure Eli would be done here and the team would go full rebuild. The team sucks. When this GM and coach came and committed to Eli which in turn means not a full rebuild I was surprised and happy. I love Eli and want the Giants to win with him.

Last night really made it hit home how much of an error that was. The play you mention resonated with me as well. Eli scrambling forward in an impotent way trying to pass or run. He gets laid the fuck out and almost killed. What a way for a legend to go out. His career win loss may dip below five hundred too. Now I wish they did go full rebuild. This season will be difficult to watch. I see no way this improves. I guess it could a little if Barkley gets thirty touches and breaks some. Will have to be in the passing game though since every run the opposing d line is in the Giants backfield.

Eli is super rich and has had so much success I am not losing any sleep over him, but this may be one of the saddest seasons ever.

Any good college QB's coming out?

They were keeping him if they drafted Darnold  
Rong5611 : 9/17/2018 12:17 pm : link
If you throw a rookie to the wolves behind our putrid OL, it could ruin him forever. Eli was coming back no matter what. He's a transitional QB now. Very sad.
yes it would have made much more sense to  
fkap : 9/17/2018 12:35 pm : link
draft a QB, even though reports say Giants weren't solidly high on any of them, and then either:
play the rookie behind a shitty OL and risk ruining him for life,

or

have a season long QB controversy as Eli's farewell gift. and add in the possibility of bringing in the rookie at some point and shell shock him. What a shit show of a season that would be.

...  
christian : 9/17/2018 4:37 pm : link
I've said it a few times now -- if the Giants were going to put a crash test dummy behind under center, pretty sad it's Manning.
If the giants drafted Darnold and put him behind this OL  
dpinzow : 9/17/2018 4:56 pm : link
as a rookie he would get ruined like David Carr did with the Texans. In that way it might be better for the future that a young QB is not behind this line
RE: If the giants drafted Darnold and put him behind this OL  
christian : 9/17/2018 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14081969 dpinzow said:
Quote:
as a rookie he would get ruined like David Carr did with the Texans. In that way it might be better for the future that a young QB is not behind this line


I fully agree - I would have much preferred they moved on from Manning respectfully and signed a placeholder ala Warner in 2004.
RE: RE: christian  
FStubbs : 9/17/2018 5:58 pm : link
In comment 14080458 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14080423 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


The REAL question is was sticking with Eli a JOB REQUIREMENT for becoming the team's next GM and head coach?



Maybe, but what alternatives did we have at the position?


Darnold, Allen, or Rosen.
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