This goes beyond the who Barkley over a QB in this draft, which has been beaten to death.
He traded a 4th round pick in this past draft for Ogletree and his enormous contract. Does anyone here think he is worth that contract so far?
He significantly misevaluated and severely overpaid Omameh.
He drafted McIntosh who won't play all year due to a health issue which they claim they were aware of, when we are supposed to be trying to "win now"
He traded next years 3rd rounder for Beal who had a known shoulder issue and is out for the year.
Johnathan Stewart....
But lets also understand that the entire line is basically a new unit. All 5 starters are either new players or have switched positions or both. Omameh was playing LG last year, Flowers LT, Halapio was a back up OG, not a starting Center. Hernandez is a rookie and Solder is the best of the bunch.
Add to that a new offense with new terminology and you are getting what we are seeing. Add to the fact that skill players are lining up in the wrong spot then the play gets in late and Eli doesn't have enough time to change protections.
These problems have little to do with DG. He needed to hire a new coach, revamp the roster and specifically the O Line. It will take time to jell.
Excuses, they are pros and must play. Also, mental errors are one thing, but they get whipped up front on power runs too. Just physically dominated. This has been going on for years and shows no signs of stopping.
Tucker Fredrickson might have been worse and others
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and moaning after 2 games. There's a winnable game in Houston on Sunday. I'm fairly certain Shurmur and Gettleman are concerned about that.
Winnable? With their season on the line at home? My ass. Houston might shut the NYG out.
And you know they’re going to play this game as they’re super bowl because I believe they are on a 8 game losing streak ..... watch out
At Houston - Watt, Merciless, Clowney...makes Dallas look tame
New Orleans
At Carolina
Eagles - With Wenz
At Atlanta
Redskins
In comment 14080817 Sean said:
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In comment 14080787 Sean said:
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I see no long term plan.
Let me reach here sean. You wanted Darnold. Am I even close to being right? 😎
Barkley is fun to watch and a no doubt a helluva talent. But if we are going to stumble through a 7-9 season, it is very hard to watch this with a 37 year old QB in the twilight of his career.
It would be much more tolerable if we had a rookie QB going through growing pains. The moves DG made put pressure on to win this year.
This guy has fuct this team up more than any other owner in the Nfl has, lately. Tell me I’m wrong. Please.
I don’t even know what I’m looking at anymore. Is it Eli is it not Eli who the fuck knows. All I know is for years we asked if Dave Brown was the problem or what was Kerry Collins really capable of and where did that leave us? Lost in the woods.
When you’re asking questions about the qb time and time again, the qb is the problem.
The Darnold crowd will be insidious the entire year and we'll be forced into listening about how great he is, will be, could be, should be for the Giants.
Without an Oline, he would be David Carr all over getting pounded until he would be terminally gun shy.
Until the line is fixed drafting a QB is wasting a draft choice.
It's just been a disaster.
The Darnold crowd will be insidious the entire year and we'll be forced into listening about how great he is, will be, could be, should be for the Giants.
Without an Oline, he would be David Carr all over getting pounded until he would be terminally gun shy.
Until the line is fixed drafting a QB is wasting a draft choice.
Without an OL, he could just as easily have redshirted this year while Eli got his farewell tour, and this abortion of a season would generate another round of high draft picks that could be plied into the OL, along with the money saved from not having Eli around in 19.
Instead - we're going into next year hoping to find a QB somewhere. Awesome.
Wow.
Certainly glad a lot of these fans aren't on any of my coaching staffs..............
It's just been a disaster.
yup. unmitigated disaster.
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is astounding. If anybody thought that this team was going to do anything this year, they should be concerned for themselves, not Gettleman.
The Darnold crowd will be insidious the entire year and we'll be forced into listening about how great he is, will be, could be, should be for the Giants.
Without an Oline, he would be David Carr all over getting pounded until he would be terminally gun shy.
Until the line is fixed drafting a QB is wasting a draft choice.
Without an OL, he could just as easily have redshirted this year while Eli got his farewell tour, and this abortion of a season would generate another round of high draft picks that could be plied into the OL, along with the money saved from not having Eli around in 19.
Instead - we're going into next year hoping to find a QB somewhere. Awesome.
That is the dilemma every draft. Sorry. I did not want Darnold. Would have wanted Rosen or Mayfield before Darnold if taking a QB. I'm happy with Barkley.
But it is still lunacy to be two games in and the entire front office, draft picks and organization is being called out.
Again, this team was doing nothing this year with that line even with Solder..if you hitched your horse to that wagon of course you would be angry. My pick was 6-10 at best...
All you basically accomplish is taking an older, immobile QB and subject him to an unholy beating.
And it didn't have to be Darnold - it could have been Rosen or Allen, basically anyone but Mayfield. We opted instead to draft Barkley and hope that next year is better.
Same bad OL, now minus a playmaker at RB. So you have Eli or a rookie under C. If the OL is what's the major issue, anything short of fixing it through this past draft was likely having the same outcome.
This is what happens when you have a decade of poor drafts
Best case, we have a highly touted QB on the bench watching Eli get the snot knocked out of him. Worst case the rookie QB gets in and gets pounded.
Same bad OL, now minus a playmaker at RB. So you have Eli or a rookie under C. If the OL is what's the major issue, anything short of fixing it through this past draft was likely having the same outcome.
This is what happens when you have a decade of poor drafts
Best case, we have a highly touted QB on the bench watching Eli get the snot knocked out of him. Worst case the rookie QB gets in and gets pounded.
It's not just drafting the QB. It's understanding that Eli + this OL does not compute. Perhaps with a more athletic young QB the offense could be run differently to allow for more pass protection techniques - someone smarter than me would have to outline how that would work.
But there were other things that should have been done if the conviction was to keep Eli. More, much more, should have been done to address the OL. Instead of drafting a RB and paying a WR, perhaps those resources could have been thrown at the OL. We could have drafted Nelson in round 1, Hernandez in round 2, and traded Beckham for a pick that could have been used on one of the three first round OTs. And/or perhaps Beckham's money could have gone to Norwell. Yeah that might be overkill on the offensive line, but it would have been a better approach than to put Eli behind this current disaster.
If the conviction from the front office is that Eli is the guy going forward, fine...then use every possible resource to build the offensive line. We know based on the last several years that that is more valuable to Eli's success than any offensive skill player.
But what was done this offseason was a half assed disaster.
If you put the resources towards an OL, you then have a young QB, no playmaker at WR and mediocre RB's. Not sure how that's better than today - just different.
If you draft a RB and struggle, people say a QB should've been taken. If you draft a QB, people would say we'd waste him or threaten his psyche by playing him behind a poor OL.
But the way the league and the cap are structured, it is really difficult to improve an entire unit, UNLESS every signing/pick is a hit.
I haven't seen evidence of improvement, but after only 2 games, we might get lucky and see this line can come together.
But no matter what people believe about constructing a team, trying to overcome a decade of bad drafts is damn hard to do. And the liklihood is that any path is going to seemingly suck in Year 1.
Difference is that was with an established staff and team. This is a brand new staff and team so I’m less disappointed this year than last. But that’s just me. I’m giving new ownership two years, not two games...
Eli should have been the QB in 2018 regardless of who we picked.
I can understand not wanting to pick a QB if you do not think the position is as valuable going forward as it has been historically or if you don't think any of the QBs are going to be that good. But I'm skeptical of the idea that none of the three top ten QBs that were available at #2 are going to be Pro Bowl caliber players. I could be wrong, of course (and I didn't watch much of any of them in college, so I'm not basing that off of my own judgement of each).
But the approach that was taken by the front office was a half measure that was marked by a fundamental contradiction: they wanted to stick with Eli while entering the season with massive questions on the offensive line. That was never going to work...and it's negatively impacting not only Eli, but our massive investments in Barkley and Beckham.
It's like the front office never gamed out how this was likely to play out.
If you were the GM this year, what would have done differently to improve the Oline for 2018? I'm out of answers.
- They flipped JPP for a draft pick, eating salary this year to make things better next year
- They signed a T and a G
- They drafted the top player in the draft to give us another playmaker
- They actually brought in veteran LB's
- They traded a backup OL to gain cap $$$
- They massively overpaid for a declining RB
- They rid the locker room of a lot of the trouble makers who existed prior
We can argue on the effectiveness of these moves, especially the Stewart signing and if the OL guys were the right players, but I don't know how it can be called a half-measure. And like I said above, if they had done what you've proposed and cut Eli, traded Beckham and used those assets for the OL, there's no evidence to suggest that improves the team now or in the long run, especially since the FA OL out there this year were underwhelming.
This was a pretty robust house cleaning, but again - overcoming so many poor drafts means making a lot of moves and having them all be right. People are enamored with Mahomes right now, but the guy had an ideal situation of sitting for a year to learn, and then playing on a team with a top OL, a top TE, a playmaking WR and a top RB. We can see exactly what happens when you have playmakers and a shit OL. But as we've seen with Dallas, you can have a great OL and lack a top D and it takes you nowhere either.
Same bad OL, now minus a playmaker at RB. So you have Eli or a rookie under C. If the OL is what's the major issue, anything short of fixing it through this past draft was likely having the same outcome.
This is what happens when you have a decade of poor drafts
Best case, we have a highly touted QB on the bench watching Eli get the snot knocked out of him. Worst case the rookie QB gets in and gets pounded.
Or the third option the Giants employed the last time around: sign a placeholder veteran to keep the seat warm and stress test the o-line before easing the rookie in.
Moving Manning or letting go and choose his destination would have been a lot better than throwing him out there for this.
The Giants even as it stands aren't heavily invested on their oline. Only 5 teams are spending less on their oline this year.
That goes up next year when Solder starts costing a lot. But the Giants have comically found a way to overpay and under allocate to their line.
And then everyone was so enraptured by Gettleman's NY schtick and how he played to the media. And all of his "old school" theories. Gee, how refreshing. That wins games.
Gettleman was like comfort food for Mara. Just stories and laughs about the good old days.
What a series of events the last nine months...
(1) Keep Eli
(2) Hiring Accorsi's buddy
(3) Going the predictable route of hiring the "hot" OC
(4) Getting outwitted in the FA market
(5) Drafting a RB for now and not a QB for now and the
future
You just can't make it up.
Especially the horseshit about Mara dictating that Manning stays as a way to makeup for last year, and ordering that the team be built around him.
They had very realistic opportunities to completely overhaul a franchise that has been in complete disarray for years. They opted not to. I don't know where that leaves us now.
Especially the horseshit about Mara dictating that Manning stays as a way to makeup for last year, and ordering that the team be built around him.
Do you really find that hard to believe?
It wasn't quite the Code Red scene in "A Few Good Men". But all the circumstantial evidence points to Mara wanting to save Eli's legacy; and do whatever is possible to send him out in style and not in shame.
Except of course the Stewart signing which was anything but half-measured...noticed you have changed your spots on that one as of late.
Not really.
I wanted a QB - definitely true. But I would have been able to reconcile Darnold, Rosen or Allen.
From there, I could have lived with a defensive players - Chubb, Ward, Fitzpatrick (who is lighting it up in Miami - this is the DROTY), etc.
Or moving down, too.
The RB position has just become too commoditized. I think it's arguably the most overrated position in football.
If those moves were made without expecting an improvement in year one, then how were the selection of Barkley and retaining Eli good moves?
Eli's main problem has been the OL the past few years. Another year older with an OL that plays the same, someone thought that was a good idea?
And anyone watching Barkley knows he's not exactly thriving because of the OL. So right there, a year of his career is pretty much shot as well (where RBs aren't exactly known for their longevity).
They made the moves because they expected them to bear fruit. If you want to defend them that's fine, but not on the basis that they knew they weren't getting an improvement this year, that's just silly.
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is simply wrong. He paid big money to a LT, he decided not to pay big money to two of our players, he drafted Hernandez etc. He replaced four of the five guys on the OL and while Flowers is bad, he is not nearly as terrible as people on here make him out to be. ANd, what I mean by that is simply, he might be better than a guy off the street or anyone else we could have gotten. You can argue those were bad decision and that might be right, but he did address the Offensive Line. And, as I have said ad nauseum in the off season, anyone expecting the offensive line to get better after giving up big pieces like Pugh and Richburg were in for a surprise. They might have been the right moves, sort of like drilling for a cavity to get rid of the decay before filling it, but it did not mean our OL would improve in year 1.
If those moves were made without expecting an improvement in year one, then how were the selection of Barkley and retaining Eli good moves?
Eli's main problem has been the OL the past few years. Another year older with an OL that plays the same, someone thought that was a good idea?
And anyone watching Barkley knows he's not exactly thriving because of the OL. So right there, a year of his career is pretty much shot as well (where RBs aren't exactly known for their longevity).
They made the moves because they expected them to bear fruit. If you want to defend them that's fine, but not on the basis that they knew they weren't getting an improvement this year, that's just silly.
I made the very argument you made at the time, ad nauseum. I belive your argument and I believe you are right. With that said, maybe they think this is a 3-4 year deal and Eli will have one more run. Again, I think that is foolish and decision I would have made myself, but I can't say that that is a failure after game two. Gettleman could be thinking long term with Eli and rebuilding the team for a run in the next 3-4 years with Eli, SB, and OBJ. Again, I wouldn't do it that way, but I can't say that it has not panned out after two games.
It wasn't quite the Code Red scene in "A Few Good Men". But all the circumstantial evidence points to Mara wanting to save Eli's legacy; and do whatever is possible to send him out in style and not in shame.
Circumstantial evidence my ass. Giants ownership doesn't give directives to preserve a player's legacy. In your fucked up world, ownership hires a GM and a new coach with the explicit instructions to keep the QB around, even if it is detrimental to the team. To "bow to the House Of Manning". They then build around the QB to make sure he's here for several more years and give him a shiny new RB to go with a top WR.
Yet, they don't do the most basic move of all - protecting him with an OL.
There's no Illuminati moves being made. No Secret Order of Masons shit going on. Just a lot of lunacy in your posts and a roster construction that chose to pick the top player in the draft instead of taking a QB. You confuse a choice with being a directive.
But it isn't surprising. You continually refer to Jints Central as this incompetent organization that has somehow lucked into 4 SB victories, so your historical perspective is fucked up to be kind.
I don't want to see the results they're going to get, and I don't want to watch Eli get the shit kicked out of him every week. If they're really thinking of Eli at 40 and this was the best they could do this year, then I can't see having any faith in them whatsoever to keep him in one piece for the next 3-4 years.
You have complained about every draft pick every year. Even if you're right, you have zero credibility anymore. Maybe you can tell us again how Patricia is a "true leader of men."
Unfortunately, he won't.
Or anyone who thinks a comma belongs in the middle of that post.
The Darnold crowd will be insidious the entire year and we'll be forced into listening about how great he is, will be, could be, should be for the Giants.
Without an Oline, he would be David Carr all over getting pounded until he would be terminally gun shy.
Until the line is fixed drafting a QB is wasting a draft choice.
But drafting a RB without an OL is aces. Got it.
We just have to hope they get better and fast.
This is why I actually have a bit -- a shred -- of optimism towards the Giants post 2018 future. Like the Chiefs, we have some seriously explosive talent. If the front office makes some uncharacteristically bold and wise moves, we could certainly become a team that expands upon that explosive talent AND combines it with clever innovation and execution.
Of course the guy who thinks the ownership of all his teams sucks criticizes the Maras....
They are to blame for this mess.
Circumstantial evidence my ass. Giants ownership doesn't give directives to preserve a player's legacy. In your fucked up world, ownership hires a GM and a new coach with the explicit instructions to keep the QB around, even if it is detrimental to the team. To "bow to the House Of Manning". They then build around the QB to make sure he's here for several more years and give him a shiny new RB to go with a top WR.
Unfortunately you are deep in denial. Let me help once again...
It was reported in Newsday after the Benchgate that Mara and Eli had a "very emotional talk" and Mara didn't want Eli to "go out like this". And he was basically heartbroken when Eli started to break down on TV after the benching was announced. Mara then said he wanted Eli to retire as a Giant and Eli wanted the same thing. So...
A few days later McAdoo is the made the scapegoat and fired. And a few days later Reese is fired to round out the house clean. Both are easy targets.
Then suddenly Accorsi is back in the picture. Do you think that's just coincidence? He drafted Eli. And then he strongly recommends that Gettleman, who was there when Eli was drafted, as the GM. Do you think that's just another coincidence?
The next shoe drops - Shurmur becomes the HC lead candidate. Why? He just brought Case Keenum back from the QB graveyard. Perfect. Maybe he can do the same resuscitate Eli.
Shortly thereafter it is plastered all over the media that everyone has watched all this video and Eli still has plenty in the tank. Mara is ecstatic. Just what he wants to hear...Is that just pure coincidence? Hell, no. That is everyone falling in line.
Then the plan is hatched - rebuild the oline, improve at RB, and lock down OBJ (which got bumpy when the grainy video surfaced). And let's see if we can add some pieces on D.
Now Eli is set to - on paper - with a better team offensively.
I actually get why Mara did this. He feels a big debt of gratitude towards Eli. As I've said in the past, that's human nature. Mara isn't coldblooded to simply severe ties after such a catastrophe with the benching...
But I think it's the wrong plan; and a reflection of an organization that made decisions based on emotion and not good football reasoning.